From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #286 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, June 28 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 286 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- fact on film? njc [Jennifer Faulkner ] RE: Where's Kakki? NJC [] Case of You ["G'n H" ] Re: fact on film? njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Case of You [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni and Bob ["Martin Giles" ] Michael Moore was fact on film? njc [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Joni guitar and rapping [steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedder)] Re: Joni and Bob ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: big ugly organs NJC now The Doors ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Fact on Film? - njc [Jenny Goodspeed ] Michael Moore at the Bank - njc [KindTaper@aol.com] Re: HappY Birthday ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: Fact on Film? - njc [KindTaper@aol.com] Re: fact on film? njc ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni and Bob ["Martin Giles" ] Re: Joni and Bob [Em ] Re: Fact on Film? - njc [colin ] Re: Joni and Bob ["Martin Giles" ] Re: Fact on Film? - njc [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Fact on Film? - njc ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Re: Fact on Film? - njc [tantra_apso ] Fact on Film? - njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni and Bob [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni and Bob [Em ] Re: Joni guitar and rapping [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Joni and Bob [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: fact on film? njc [dsk ] Re: Michael Moore at the Bank - njc [dsk ] false on film [KindTaper@aol.com] The Beginning of Survival and hi again! ["amelio747" ] BMG Music Special [Michaelpaz@aol.com] Re: Joni guitar and rapping/Now NJC ["Donna Binkley" Subject: fact on film? njc Hello, I was wondering where you got the information that the part in Bowling for Columbine where Michael Moore gets the gun for opening a bank account was a lie? Is there anything else you know of that Michael Moore has lied about? If so, could you please tell me where you got that information as well? Thanks, Jennifer Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 16:19:45 -0500 From: Subject: RE: Where's Kakki? NJC Rob, a/k/a Evian, wrote (among other things): "Good question! Actually, although I haven't been a regular basically since my children were born, I cannot for the life of me get off the list." Me now: Good Lord! When did the "child" become "children"??! I've lost track of some people from this list for entirely too long. Good to hear from you again, Rob! Will even forgive you for leaving me off your list. ;-) Take good care--and congratulations. Mary. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:45:43 +0300 From: "G'n H" Subject: Case of You Hi, have you heard this version by Jane Monheit and Richard Bona? http://webusers.siba.fi/~lsippola/A%20Case%20Of%20You.mp3 I think it's not bad. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:05:13 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: fact on film? njc **Is there anything else you know of that Michael Moore has lied about? If so, could you please tell me where you got that information as well? Good question...Fahrenheit is basically a film version of Moore's book "Dude, Where's My Country" and those of you who read it know that the last 30 pages or so of the book are detailed references where he got his facts. His writings on the web all link to the news stories where he got his information. Of course by now he's become an industry with a whole team of fact checkers, but his work remains very compelling, especially when the opposition can neither get him on anything nor even support their own arguments...WMD's? Nope. Saddam-Al Qaida ties? Nope. The list goes on, hopefully the administration will not. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:00:18 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Case of You **have you heard this version by Jane Monheit and Richard Bona? I have...I like it just fine but I also know that Jane has some non-fans here. I'm a pretty easy sell when it comes to Joni covers though... Bob, just mere days away from a new volume NP: Red House Painters, "Void" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 11:31:18 +0100 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Joni and Bob Hi folks This is something that just comes out of the blue really, but is something I've wondered about often. Many times I've heard people talk about poetry in popular music, and the only name that comes up is Bob Dylan. More than a couple of times I've heard interviews with poets on the radio who champion Dylan but never mention Joni. Now this is not meant as any kind of insult to Dylan, but I haven't heard any lyrics of his that I would call poetry in the way that I would Ms. Mitchell. I don't dislike him; he's pithy, often funny, often right on the nail. I just haven't found anything in his lyrics that strikes me in anything like the way Joni's lyrics do. Of course, not 'getting' him that much means that I'm not familiar with a lot of his stuff. So let's set 'em up. Joni vs. Bob .. Strike one for Joni; 'Pawn shops glitter like gold tooth caps In the grey decay They chew the last few dollars off Old Beale Street's Carcass Carrion and mercy.' Martin. In London. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:56:44 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Michael Moore was fact on film? njc This isn't anything he lied about but he's not the most charming man to work with. A director friend of mine worked with him as a stage manager while he was doing his stage show a few years back... He was the most annoying diva-esq person to work with... She wouldn't say anything while the show was touring but once it had, she said that the message he was giving was more important than the man himself.... And it's little things like bottled water. Every night he asks for 4 bottles of water to be placed strategically around the stage so that he can drink from them throughout the show... So Helen did this dutifully, made sure they were topped up in the interval etc... he 'caught her' topping them up from a fresh bottle and he said something like, 'No, I want new bottles in the 2nd half...' So she had to get 4 new bottles for the 2nd half... And part of the material in the show was about water being wasted in America. She couldn't get him to see the irony... He also did material which was about the British stand in Israel and came away one evening saying that 'we brits must be anti Semitic' but his viewpoint within the material wasn't relevant to being pro or anti semitic, his slant was just way off the mark. Helen looked at him and said, Mike, look at me, what is my surname?' Helen belongs to one of the most important established jewish families in London. I must admit that it was because she was p!ssed off with him as a professional. Every night the show would go up late because he would not turn up to the theatre til half an hour after the start, and even then , he would sit in his dressing room, reading the papers to make sure he was up to date with the world. His hotel was over the road. The producers blamed Helen until she invited them backstage one evening to let them witness for themselves what his daily routine was... That kinda thing irks me as someone who performs myself, knowing that these people have paid good money to see me, I have to produce. And on time. I love his films and I love the work he is doing but as a person to work with... He seems like a nightmare who doesn't know his own message. Yes, a team of people checking up on information for him? That sounds about right... Probably doing a whole bunch of other things that make him look good as well... Where is Bill Hicks? Please god bring HIM back.... SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: **Is there anything else you know of that Michael Moore has lied about? If so, could you please tell me where you got that information as well? - --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 05:25:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Joni and Bob Martin says: > Of course, not 'getting' him that much means that I'm not familiar > with a > lot of his stuff. So let's set 'em up. Joni vs. Bob .. > > Strike one for Joni; > > 'Pawn shops glitter like gold tooth caps > In the grey decay > They chew the last few dollars off Old Beale Street's Carcass > Carrion and mercy.' Hi Martin, one problem I can see with this, is that without the music, some of both their stuff doesn't mean a whole lot. For instance those lines you quoted, just by themselves...without the music and without the rest of the song, don't do a whole lot for me. The other thing, on this list at least, is that more folks are likely to know Joni's lyrics, tho many on here know their Dylan as well. So Joni will have the distinct advantage in these here parts. I guess I don't see the point. There's enough aggravation in the world. They're both great, and I don't see them treading on each other's toes. And much as the feminist in me would love to see the Joni on top, nah, Bob Dylan rules. You say you've not heard much Dylan? A recommendation, start with his 60's and 70's and early 80's stuff. "Times They are a Changing" through, say, "Street Legal". Bob's lyrics are more "songy" than Joni's. Hers are more "opus"-like. Some of his are short little songs, and some are big ol honkers..but what I like about Bob is his seeming "no fear" to tossing things "off the cuff"..like this song may not be perfect or slick in any way, but its his art, and its what blew out his ass and it totally slays me. So here's some Bob lyrics for our shared Monday: (and of course this is just one of a ZILLION great songs of his) 'Twas in another lifetime, one of toil and blood When blackness was a virtue and the road was full of mud I came in from the wilderness, a creature void of form. "Come in," she said, "I'll give you shelter from the storm." And if I pass this way again, you can rest assured I'll always do my best for her, on that I give my word In a world of steel-eyed death, and men who are fighting to be warm. "Come in," she said, "I'll give you shelter from the storm." Not a word was spoke between us, there was little risk involved Everything up to that point had been left unresolved. Try imagining a place where it's always safe and warm. "Come in," she said, "I'll give you shelter from the storm." I was burned out from exhaustion, buried in the hail, Poisoned in the bushes an' blown out on the trail, Hunted like a crocodile, ravaged in the corn. "Come in," she said, "I'll give you shelter from the storm." Suddenly I turned around and she was standin' there With silver bracelets on her wrists and flowers in her hair. She walked up to me so gracefully and took my crown of thorns. "Come in," she said, "I'll give you shelter from the storm." Now there's a wall between us, somethin' there's been lost I took too much for granted, got my signals crossed. Just to think that it all began on a long-forgotten morn. "Come in," she said, "I'll give you shelter from the storm." Well, the deputy walks on hard nails and the preacher rides a mount But nothing really matters much, it's doom alone that counts And the one-eyed undertaker, he blows a futile horn. "Come in," she said, "I'll give you shelter from the storm." I've heard newborn babies wailin' like a mournin' dove And old men with broken teeth stranded without love. Do I understand your question, man, is it hopeless and forlorn? "Come in," she said, "I'll give you shelter from the storm." In a little hilltop village, they gambled for my clothes I bargained for salvation an' they gave me a lethal dose. I offered up my innocence and got repaid with scorn. "Come in," she said, "I'll give you shelter from the storm." Well, I'm livin' in a foreign country but I'm bound to cross the line Beauty walks a razor's edge, someday I'll make it mine. If I could only turn back the clock to when God and her were born. "Come in," she said, "I'll give you shelter from the storm." :) Em ===== - ------- "Don't try to build an aeroplane when you just need a kite." Tee ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:55 +0100 (BST) From: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedder) Subject: Joni guitar and rapping Someone off list suggested I share a couple of recent Joni related events to befall me recently - so I will. At the end of February, I had the good fortune to see rising English singer/songwriter Amy Wadge play a local venue. I thought she was a really gutsy tune smith(was described in local promo stuff as the new Joni Mitchell, but she's nothing like Joni but different and good nonetheless). I was somewhat the worse for wear for beer that night and, whilst purchasing her cd, muttered in an unfortunately slurred voice that 'If I were years younger I'd follow your tour like I did Joni Mitchell in '83.' Amy said how much she loved Joni - which was rather daft on her behalf because I came fully into contact with my Jonivangelist and began to blurt out endless tales of Joni Fest (if you haven't been - go. It'll change your life) and our purchase of the blonde guitar. Owning Joni's guitar elevated me instantly to celebrity status and I promised that I'd bring it along for Amy to play sometime. From there, Amy and I kept in touch and we seem to get along quite well. A couple of weeks ago, Amy played on a Bob Harris Presents night (he of the old UK show 'Old Grey Whistle Test') at Johnny Dankworth and Cleo Laine's venue The Stables. Amy topped the bill and, at the end of the night, we sat in the foyer playing Coyote and Hejira. Her bass player and producer, one Dave Bronze, says that Hejira is his all time favourite album and both Amy and Dave posed for photos with the guitar. Anyway, to top it all, Amy had secured the support slot (from over 250 artists) that very day for the UK tour with Jeff Beck and is currently playing all over the UK with said top guitarist. Last week the tour reached the Albert Hall in London and was sold out for both nights. What's really nice was that Amy got Steph and I a couple of complimentary tickets and even dedicated a tune to us! Anyway, it's nice to know that more big Joni devotees are currently out on tour and if they're coming your way go and see them! This only goes to show the old adage 'Have Joni guitar - will travel and get freebies!' My other news is that I have been doing quite a bit of session work recently and, as some know, been working with a rapper. I am frankly astonished at a lot of his writing and performing and thought that I must get him some Joni lyrics to peruse. He is blown away by Joni. 'Man, that Hejira is DEEP' were his exact words. Yup - quite right! Love Anita xx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:14:17 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni and Bob I don't dislike him; he's > pithy, often funny, often right on the nail. I just haven't found > anything in his lyrics that strikes me in anything like the way > Joni's lyrics do. > > Of course, not 'getting' him that much means that I'm not familiar > with a lot of his stuff. So let's set 'em up. Joni vs. Bob .. I think they are both great in their own way but very different. There's room for both. Just don't say that Joni is the greatest *female* singer/songwriter. At least not to Joni's face! Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:34:39 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: big ugly organs NJC now The Doors Hi Bill! I remember you! I listened to "Touch Me" by the Doors when my father was stationed at Laughlin AFB in Del Rio, Texas during the late sixties. I absolutely love that song! The ending of it is one of the reasons I started loving jazz believe it or not. That saxophone solo is still so hot! Our radio station there made sure we knew that the group singing was the Doors. I love that you thought it was Sinatra!!! The great thing about radio back then was that you could hear Sinatra, the Fifth Dimension, Jeannie C. Riley (Harper Valley) PTA and any other genre of music on the top 40 list at the time. We also had the Hit Parade where we could learn the words to our favorite songs. This is what we did before video and MTV! Take care Bill! Bill wrote: hey folks, I'm back, for those old-timers who remember me. hi to all the new folks i had to respond to this, because it made me recall the first time I heard Touch Me, I thought it was Sinatra. It was on a bad reception, the bridge "i'm gonna love you till...." Bill _________________________________________________________________ Get fast, reliable Internet access with MSN 9 Dial-up  now 3 months FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:39:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Joni and Bob Mark wrote: > I think they are both great in their own way but very different. > There's room for both. I agree. I've been sitting here thinking that Bob is much less "refined" than Joni. Its rougher stuff. Even a bit "stinky". Both have an "edge" to them, but Joni's is a straight edge and Bob's is more "serrated". Both super-useful, but one uses them for different things. Also, one question...its been really delightful to me - the number of gay folks on this list. Wondering if a Dylan list would have such a high-ish percentage of, say, gay men, as this Joni list. You think? or? > Just don't > say that Joni is the greatest *female* singer/songwriter. At least > not to Joni's face! no I agree with this too. She stands shoulder to shoulder with any songwriter, male or female. However, I think Joni does have the *Diva* thing going on just a bit. ::shrug:: I could be wrong. Its like comparing Vermeer to Rembrandt, why bother? Like comparing Van Gogh to Gauguin. Why bother? Yet people do it all the time, yes? Guess its just in our nature. But its like a dog is a very nice pet and a cat is also a very nice pet..yet they appeal to different people - and some like both. I'm one of those, I like "both". I am "bi". I like Bob and Joni both, but given the desert island scenario I'll take Bob. :) Em ===== - ------- "Don't try to build an aeroplane when you just need a kite." Tee ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:39:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Fact on Film? - njc Hi Wes. I like facts. So I just want to correct some of what you stated below. KindTaper@aol.com wrote: I have not seen F.9/11, and in fact, I might go see it today just to see if Moore has gotten any worse since his last atrocity, "Bowling for Columbine." Did anyone else who saw that movie know that the whole scene at the beginning about how you got a free gun if you opened a bank account was total BS? Could you explain more what you mean by total BS? The bank was giving away a guns for opening a CD with them - as 'advance' interest payment. They did give Michael a gun after doing a background check. KindTaper@aol.com wrote: Another thing that really ticked me off about Michael Moore: In Bowling for Columbine, there is a story of a little boy in Michigan who took his Grandfather's gun to school and killed a classmate. The boy's mother was part of a "work for welfare" program which required her to get up early to go to work and earn her welfare check. She worked at a theme mall owned by Dick Clark or something, and Moore goes out of his way to present the idea that if Mom had been home instead of "making fudge for rich white people," that the little boy wouldn't have gotten the gun and that girl would still be alive. What I'd like to know is, where was Grandpa? If that mother was stupid enough to leave a 5 or 6 year old kid alone by himself to get prepared for school, that kid should be taken away and put in a foster home. And the Mom and boy lived with Grandpa, so why didn't Grandpa check his book bag and possibly prevent that tragedy? Moore didn't bother investigating that aspect of the story. The mother left her son with his uncle after she was evicted and the boy took his uncle's gun. Was the mother stupid - maybe. I think her options were limited. Why didn't 'grandpa' check his bag? The uncle was a criminal and dealer, so I'm thinking that wasn't on his mind. You're making assumptions about this family when you ask these questions based on your experience. KindTaper@aol.com wrote: In summary, Michael Moore is a left wing ideologue, and every bit of that way of thinking goes into his movies, so just realize that this film is most likely heavily biased against Bush and republicans.... True. Moore says this himself. KindTaper@aol.com wrote: and probably full of lies. Do see the movie though, then you can better research 'the facts' for yourself before coming to that conclusion. I am honestly so tired of partisanism and the way it clouds our perception - the assumptions we make based on the desire to defend the home team (Republican or Democrat) at all costs. Jenny New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 11:28:31 EDT From: KindTaper@aol.com Subject: Michael Moore at the Bank - njc Here's what I read about the bank deal. I think Michael Moore is deceitful in his tactics to gain interviews, and in his distribution of gathered information as a way of advancing his political agenda. I have listed the link to the website where I found this article and others at the end of my post. Thanks for reading, Wes <> Above Article: http://gunowners.org/opmoore01.htm Another similar article http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/bank.htm More on discrepancies in Bowling for Columbine: http://gunowners.org/opmooretb.htm Libertarian Party www.lp.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:42:04 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: HappY Birthday Happy Birthday from Texas Jerry! Sounds like you're in good hands in NYC, love db >>> Michael Paz 6/26/2004 9:30:02 PM >>> To the King of Roasted Corn on the BarBQue. May you have a wonderful birthday celebration in the big apple amongst friends. Many more! Paz This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 11:46:09 EDT From: KindTaper@aol.com Subject: Re: Fact on Film? - njc Jenny said: <> Isn't that just what you're doing? Taking me to task on subjects with which you disagree with me? I just made a post to the list with several sites claiming how he distorted that whole bank scene. He made it look like any moron could walk in off the street and get a gun, basically with no questions asked. And as far as "facts" go, it's all a matter of who you believe and your personal philosophies. If you are democratic, you are most likely to promote the philosophies of that party and denounce anything supporting the right. I have seen more to lead me to believe that Michael Moore is anti-american, anti-capitalism and blatantly dishonest than I have to support his claims. Wes p.s. How about that Song to a Seagull album! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:10:02 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: fact on film? njc Jennifer asked: "Is there anything else you know of that Michael Moore has lied about?" A number of the impressions made in his latest work have been refuted in the mainstream media. I think it depends on one's definition of "lie" or one's perception of "fact." I think he has a keen sense of what some believe or want to believe and he shapes his work so that by innuendo or clever editing their beliefs can be confirmed. He is a master propagandist, IMO. Here are a few links explaining where some believe he has lied or given a false impression in his latest: http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usfilm273869328jun27,0,5702938.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/ http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2004-06-24-fahrenheit-cover_x.htm (scroll down to box "9/11Omits A Few Finer Points") Sorry to the Moore fans, but not everyone thinks alike, Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:43:38 +0100 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: Joni and Bob Hi Em Thanks for taking the time to print a whole song for me :) I guess I put it badly by writing Joni vs. Bob. I'm really not trying to ask who the best, like you say, 'Its like comparing Vermeer to Rembrandt'. I'm just trying to get some insight into why Dylan gets the attention he does and nobody ever mentions another poet that we all know. What is it about him that poets refer to exclusively when they talk about poetry in popular music? The Joni snippet that I chose is from 'Furry Sings The Blues' on Hejira. It's one of scores of times where she manages to paint a thousand pictures with so few words. I love the comparison to gold tooth caps, picturing some beat-up old face with glittering teeth - just as the Street is old and beat-up, punctuated by the cheap glitter of pawn shops. But then she makes that extra leap, because their function fits the image also .. 'They chew the last few dollars off Old Beale Street's Carcass'. Wonderful. And then the final 'Shadows And Light' insight - 'Carrion and mercy.' That's the stuff that makes the hairs stand up on the back of my neck. I know that there are a lot of jmdlers that are big Dylan fans, so I'm sure you'll be able to tell me what gives you the shivers with his work. Martin. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Em" To: "Martin Giles" ; Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 1:25 PM Subject: Re: Joni and Bob > Hi Martin, > one problem I can see with this, is that without the music, some of > both their stuff doesn't mean a whole lot. > For instance those lines you quoted, just by themselves...without the > music and without the rest of the song, don't do a whole lot for me. > The other thing, on this list at least, is that more folks are likely > to know Joni's lyrics, tho many on here know their Dylan as well. So > Joni will have the distinct advantage in these here parts. > > I guess I don't see the point. > There's enough aggravation in the world. They're both great, and I > don't see them treading on each other's toes. > And much as the feminist in me would love to see the Joni on top, nah, > Bob Dylan rules. > You say you've not heard much Dylan? A recommendation, start with his > 60's and 70's and early 80's stuff. > "Times They are a Changing" through, say, "Street Legal". > Bob's lyrics are more "songy" than Joni's. Hers are more "opus"-like. > Some of his are short little songs, and some are big ol honkers..but > what I like about Bob is his seeming "no fear" to tossing things "off > the cuff"..like this song may not be perfect or slick in any way, but > its his art, and its what blew out his ass and it totally slays me. > > So here's some Bob lyrics for our shared Monday: > (and of course this is just one of a ZILLION great songs of his) > > > 'Twas in another lifetime, one of toil and blood > When blackness was a virtue and the road was full of mud > I came in from the wilderness, a creature void of form. > "Come in," she said, > "I'll give you shelter from the storm." > > And if I pass this way again, you can rest assured > I'll always do my best for her, on that I give my word > In a world of steel-eyed death, and men who are fighting to be warm. > "Come in," she said, > "I'll give you shelter from the storm." > > Not a word was spoke between us, there was little risk involved > Everything up to that point had been left unresolved. > Try imagining a place where it's always safe and warm. > "Come in," she said, > "I'll give you shelter from the storm." > > I was burned out from exhaustion, buried in the hail, > Poisoned in the bushes an' blown out on the trail, > Hunted like a crocodile, ravaged in the corn. > "Come in," she said, > "I'll give you shelter from the storm." > > Suddenly I turned around and she was standin' there > With silver bracelets on her wrists and flowers in her hair. > She walked up to me so gracefully and took my crown of thorns. > "Come in," she said, > "I'll give you shelter from the storm." > > Now there's a wall between us, somethin' there's been lost > I took too much for granted, got my signals crossed. > Just to think that it all began on a long-forgotten morn. > "Come in," she said, > "I'll give you shelter from the storm." > > Well, the deputy walks on hard nails and the preacher rides a mount > But nothing really matters much, it's doom alone that counts > And the one-eyed undertaker, he blows a futile horn. > "Come in," she said, > "I'll give you shelter from the storm." > > I've heard newborn babies wailin' like a mournin' dove > And old men with broken teeth stranded without love. > Do I understand your question, man, is it hopeless and forlorn? > "Come in," she said, > "I'll give you shelter from the storm." > > In a little hilltop village, they gambled for my clothes > I bargained for salvation an' they gave me a lethal dose. > I offered up my innocence and got repaid with scorn. > "Come in," she said, > "I'll give you shelter from the storm." > > Well, I'm livin' in a foreign country but I'm bound to cross the line > Beauty walks a razor's edge, someday I'll make it mine. > If I could only turn back the clock to when God and her were born. > "Come in," she said, > "I'll give you shelter from the storm." > > :) > Em > > > > > ===== > ------- > "Don't try to build an aeroplane when you just need a kite." > Tee ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:10:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Joni and Bob Martin wrote about the possibility of loving both Joni AND Bob: It's always been Joni for me. That desert island > would > echo to the strains of Hejira or Blue. Let's just say I'm > bi-curious!! Hi Martin Well if you end up getting into Bob fro real, you have an amazing backlog of delights yet to encounter in your life! So you are a lucky man! ;) Much as I count myself a very lucky woman, indeed, to finally know the pleasures of Hejira, and to have more and more Joni to learn. As far as what you'd said about Joni giving you the shivers..yeah about the 2nd time I heard Song For Sharon, it gave me BIG shivers. Especially that alll I really want is to fiiiind another lover. OMG! how climactic! I was like "she yelled"! Joni yelled! and I loved it!! Not sure Bob gives me shivers..but he RIPS my face off and amazes me anew each time I listen. well yeah, shivers too... if I were gonna give you another Bob song, I'd lay "To Ramona" on you. wishing you much JOY in your explorations! Em ===== - ------- "Don't try to build an aeroplane when you just need a kite." Tee ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:05:04 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Fact on Film? - njc KindTaper@aol.com wrote: > >I have seen more to lead me to believe that Michael Moore is anti-american, >anti-capitalism > Gosh you write as these were bad things...... - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:49:58 +0100 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: Joni and Bob Em said: > But its like a dog is a very nice pet and a cat is also a very nice > pet..yet they appeal to different people - and some like both. > I'm one of those, I like "both". I am "bi". I like Bob and Joni both, > but given the desert island scenario I'll take Bob. > Well I'm straight. It's always been Joni for me. That desert island would echo to the strains of Hejira or Blue. Let's just say I'm bi-curious!! Martin. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:16:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Fact on Film? - njc KindTaper@aol.com wrote: Isn't that just what you're doing? Taking me to task on subjects with which you disagree with me? Sorry Wes, I wasn't trying to take you to task at all. There were just some things you had written about 'Bowling' that I wanted clarify and also get more clarification from you on what you meant. KindTaper@aol.com wrote: I just made a post to the list with several sites claiming how he distorted that whole bank scene. He made it look like any moron could walk in off the street and get a gun, basically with no questions asked. Thanks for posting that. So it seems the bank did hand him a gun after he filled out forms and they did a background check, but normally they don't hand a gun out on site. They did this time, I guess because they were being filmed and they were proud of their promotion and wanted to advertize it. KindTaper@aol.com wrote: And as far as "facts" go, it's all a matter of who you believe and your personal philosophies. If you are democratic, you are most likely to promote the philosophies of that party and denounce anything supporting the right. Exactly. And vice versa. That's why I am frustrated with people on both sides lately and I wish people made more of an effort to not fall into step with the party line without first researching and thinking through things themselves and to always assess the source of one's "facts". I'm speaking in general here and not specifically to your opinions on Michael Moore. Why can't we all just LOVE one another. sniff sniff. KindTaper@aol.com wrote: p.s. How about that Song to a Seagull album! love it! Jenny New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 11:16:27 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: Fact on Film? - njc <> i believe that to question everything action of the government (and to expect nothing less than absolute integrity in all matters that affect the governed) is what the founding fathers intended for us, as citizens, to do. cindy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:07:05 +0100 From: tantra_apso Subject: Re: Fact on Film? - njc KindTaper@aol.com wrote: >I have seen more to lead me to believe that Michael Moore is anti-american, >anti-capitalism > Gosh you write as these were bad things...... - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:36:34 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Fact on Film? - njc >I have not seen F.9/11> Then I suggest you see it first... >What I'd really like to know is, did this man check any of what he saw on the screen after the movie, or did he just go by what he saw as the truth and stopped there?< Apparently moore did some scrupulous fact checking & much of what is in the film is public record... which you will perhaps discover when you actually see the film... >Now the reviewer claimed to be a republican, but I think that's a bunch of BS. It's certainly possible, but the New York Times has probably the most liberal editorial board in the country, right up there with the Washington Post and the LA Times. I can't imagine them hiring a right wing guy to fawn over movies by the likes of Michael Moore, or art exhibits like "Piss Christ."< Did you even read the comment? Because if you did you would have noticed that this was from a reader (not a hired writer) & yes there are many republicans who read the NYT... > Maybe because of Bush's strong stance on terrorism we haven't had a repeat of 9/11. And who can disagree that the world is safer with Saddam Hussein out of power? A whole lot of people can... There is a mountain of evidence (from people with expertise in middle east affairs) that supports the opposite view- that in fact the world is a much more dangerous place thanks to bush's foreign policies & that his response to terrorism (prior to & after 9/11) was weak (to put it mildly)... regarding saddam he was not a threat to anyone but his own people & an easy target for our government to take out to prove our military might... it's the aftermath of war hat these idiots never had a clue about... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:47:17 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and Bob Martin asks: << I'm just trying to get some insight into why Dylan gets the attention he does and nobody ever mentions another poet that we all know. What is it about him that poets refer to exclusively when they talk about poetry in popular music? >> After a lifetime of seeing women's contributions in every area of the arts and sciences minimized, I would have to say it's the fact that he has a penis. - --Smurf "Treat a work of art like a prince. Let it speak to you first." - --Artie Schopenhauer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:09:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Joni and Bob I had said: "I like Bob and Joni both, but given the desert island scenario I'll take Bob. and then Smurf came up with: "I would have to say it's the fact that he has a penis. " so, I would like to elaborate that for MUSICAL/POETIC reasons, yeah I'd still have to pick Dylan, penis and all...but if I had to pick one of them to SLEEP with on that same island...wellllll....I think Ms. Joni Mitchell gets the nod, in a BIG way. Thinking I'm bound to have offended somebody with that one. :) Em < Subject: Re: Joni guitar and rapping Great story Anita. Ah, the places Joni's guitar (and a little beer) can take you. xo Jenny Anita Gabrielle Tedder wrote: Someone off list suggested I share a couple of recent Joni related events to befall me recently - so I will. At the end of February, I had the good fortune to see rising English singer/songwriter Amy Wadge play a local venue. I thought she was a really gutsy tune smith(was described in local promo stuff as the new Joni Mitchell, but she's nothing like Joni but different and good nonetheless). I was somewhat the worse for wear for beer that night and, whilst purchasing her cd, muttered in an unfortunately slurred voice that 'If I were years younger I'd follow your tour like I did Joni Mitchell in '83.' Amy said how much she loved Joni - which was rather daft on her behalf because I came fully into contact with my Jonivangelist and began to blurt out endless tales of Joni Fest (if you haven't been - go. It'll change your life) and our purchase of the blonde guitar. Owning Joni's guitar elevated me instantly to celebrity status and I promised that I'd bring it along for Amy to play sometime. From there, Amy and I kept in touch and we seem to get along quite well. A couple of weeks ago, Amy played on a Bob Harris Presents night (he of the old UK show 'Old Grey Whistle Test') at Johnny Dankworth and Cleo Laine's venue The Stables. Amy topped the bill and, at the end of the night, we sat in the foyer playing Coyote and Hejira. Her bass player and producer, one Dave Bronze, says that Hejira is his all time favourite album and both Amy and Dave posed for photos with the guitar. Anyway, to top it all, Amy had secured the support slot (from over 250 artists) that very day for the UK tour with Jeff Beck and is currently playing all over the UK with said top guitarist. Last week the tour reached the Albert Hall in London and was sold out for both nights. What's really nice was that Amy got Steph and I a couple of complimentary tickets and even dedicated a tune to us! Anyway, it's nice to know that more big Joni devotees are currently out on tour and if they're coming your way go and see them! This only goes to show the old adage 'Have Joni guitar - will travel and get freebies!' My other news is that I have been doing quite a bit of session work recently and, as some know, been working with a rapper. I am frankly astonished at a lot of his writing and performing and thought that I must get him some Joni lyrics to peruse. He is blown away by Joni. 'Man, that Hejira is DEEP' were his exact words. Yup - quite right! Love Anita xx Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:28:48 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and Bob Jing writes: << I had said: "I like Bob and Joni both, but given the desert island scenario I'll take Bob. and then Smurf came up with: "I would have to say it's the fact that he has a penis. " >> For the sake of clarification, my response had nothing to do with sex appeal or my choice of a desert island mate. I was opining that Dylan gets more respect as a poet simply because of his gender. - --Smurf "Treat a work of art like a prince. Let it speak to you first." - --Artie Schopenhauer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:54:27 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: fact on film? njc Kakki wrote: > > Sorry to the Moore fans, but not everyone thinks alike, Well, welcome back, Kakki. I've gotta say I did NOT miss your sly slippery little digs when it comes to politics. And have you seen the movie? And what do YOU think about it? Debra Shea, in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:21:53 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Michael Moore at the Bank - njc KindTaper@aol.com quotes from http://gunowners.org/opmoore01.htm regarding a scene in BFC: > Jacobson says the movie is misleading because it leaves the impression that a > person can come in, sign up and walk out with a gun. But, this is not done > because no guns are kept at her bank, although one would think so. She says that > ordinarily a person entitled to one of the long-guns must go to a gun-dealer > where the gun is shipped. I've seen that particular scene with Moore in the bank, including the funny-to-me but annoying- to-gun-lovers line about isn't it dangerous to give out guns in a bank?, and I can see how Moore's gathering and presentation of that information for condensed dramatic effect would rile people who didn't agree with the point he was trying to make. However, I think that's quibbling about the trees and missing the forest. No matter what the procedure for getting the gun is, Moore was showing that some banks in the U.S. give out guns as gifts (a fact, yes?) and gifts are good (something most people would agree on, yes?) so the message given by all that is "guns are good" (which is where Moore's take on it comes in). But to get back to the initial fact, do banks in other countries give out guns as gifts for opening accounts? Debra Shea in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:20:51 EDT From: KindTaper@aol.com Subject: false on film Cindy said: <> I couldn't agree more, and I never said I was pro-gov't, pro-bush or anything. I am like anyone. I have my questions, concerns and doubts about the gov't's handling of everything from tax money, to 9/11, to cronyism, to you name it. I am for the party of less gov't involvement and more personal responsibility and freedom. But when I see a case of someone using deception to further their own political agenda, I have a problem with it. In this case, it's Michael Moore. Thanks, Wes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:19:42 +0100 From: "amelio747" Subject: The Beginning of Survival and hi again! Hi! Not been on the list for a while coz I wasn't feeling too good. Hopefully I've not been totally forgotten ;) So I'm sure this has all been discussed...but what does everyone think of the track-listing for "The Beginning Of Survival (please tell me there is an abbreviation for that!)??? I think she is as brave as ever coz' you couldn't have picked lesser known Joni tracks! Of course they are songs with strong statements which I'm guessing is the main point. I happen to like a lot of these tracks, in fact "Fiction" is one of my favourites! The whole DED album has become such a revelation. CMIARS however still sounds terrible as ever to me. So this CD is hardly going to be a cheery one, but it's great to see she is defying the industry as ever! NP: You Learn - Alanis Morissette * * * * * * Stephen T ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 20:01:29 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: joni in "dear amy" I saw that, too, Vince, and I was going to share it here today. Thanks for saving me the typing time! I'll bet that's the first time Joni Mitchell was ever mentioned in an advice column. Peace, Patti _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:03:10 EDT From: Michaelpaz@aol.com Subject: BMG Music Special Hey Guys here is a real good one espeically for all you newbies to Joni music. bmgmusic.com is having a 70% off sale. You can pick up most of Joni's albums for $5.39 or less. I have been a member for awhile and have gotten some killer deals. ( F4OD10 ) enter this code on the home page for the discount. I don't know if you have to be a member to get this deal. Good luck and happy listening. Best Paz NP-My Launchcast Radio Station-Love Somebody-the subdudes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:20:02 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Joni guitar and rapping/Now NJC Well said jenny! I loved your story too Anita! db >>> Jenny Goodspeed 6/28/2004 12:12:27 PM >>> Great story Anita. Ah, the places Joni's guitar (and a little beer) can take you. xo Jenny Anita Gabrielle Tedder wrote: Someone off list suggested I share a couple of recent Joni related events to befall me recently - so I will. At the end of February, I had the good fortune to see rising English singer/songwriter Amy Wadge play a local venue. I thought she was a really gutsy tune smith(was described in local promo stuff as the new Joni Mitchell, but she's nothing like Joni but different and good nonetheless). I was somewhat the worse for wear for beer that night and, whilst purchasing her cd, muttered in an unfortunately slurred voice that 'If I were years younger I'd follow your tour like I did Joni Mitchell in '83.' Amy said how much she loved Joni - which was rather daft on her behalf because I came fully into contact with my Jonivangelist and began to blurt out endless tales of Joni Fest (if you haven't been - go. It'll change your life) and our purchase of the blonde guitar. Owning Joni's guitar elevated me instantly to celebrity status and I promised that I'd bring it along for Amy to play sometime. From there, Amy and I kept in touch and we seem to get along quite well. A couple of weeks ago, Amy played on a Bob Harris Presents night (he of the old UK show 'Old Grey Whistle Test') at Johnny Dankworth and Cleo Laine's venue The Stables. Amy topped the bill and, at the end of the night, we sat in the foyer playing Coyote and Hejira. Her bass player and producer, one Dave Bronze, says that Hejira is his all time favourite album and both Amy and Dave posed for photos with the guitar. Anyway, to top it all, Amy had secured the support slot (from over 250 artists) that very day for the UK tour with Jeff Beck and is currently playing all over the UK with said top guitarist. Last week the tour reached the Albert Hall in London and was sold out for both nights. What's really nice was that Amy got Steph and I a couple of complimentary tickets and even dedicated a tune to us! Anyway, it's nice to know that more big Joni devotees are currently out on tour and if they're coming your way go and see them! This only goes to show the old adage 'Have Joni guitar - will travel and get freebies!' My other news is that I have been doing quite a bit of session work recently and, as some know, been working with a rapper. I am frankly astonished at a lot of his writing and performing and thought that I must get him some Joni lyrics to peruse. He is blown away by Joni. 'Man, that Hejira is DEEP' were his exact words. Yup - quite right! Love Anita xx Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #286 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)