From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #279 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, June 23 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 279 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Where does Joni live now and what does she do? ["G'n H" ] Re: Amour, Mama, not cheap display [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Amour, Mama, not cheap display [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Amour, Mama, not cheap display ["hell" ] RE: Only an Artist ["robin mortlock" ] Re: Amour, Mama, not cheap display [Smurfycopy@aol.com] jonivangelism ["Patti Parlette" ] Re Amour, Mama, not cheap display. ["Lucy Hone" ] Re; Only an artist ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: New Laura Nyro Release (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Only an artist njc now? ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Beginning of Survival ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Amour, Mama, not cheap display [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Amour, Mama, not cheap display ["Donna Binkley" ] ADMIN: anyone know how to reach les irvin? [Jeff Wasilko ] Re: ADMIN: anyone know how to reach les irvin? (njc) [Lori Fye ] Re: typeface (NJC) [Jeff Wasilko ] Re: typeface (NJC) [Lori Fye ] Re: typeface (NJC) [Jeff Wasilko ] Re: Beginning of Survival [Randy Remote ] Re: Beginning of Survival [Catherine McKay ] Fwd: Re: Re; Only an artist [Catherine McKay ] Re: Where does Joni live now and what does she do? ["Kakki" ] Today's Library Links: June 23 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] legal schmegal NJC [BRYAN8847@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 10:45:11 +0300 From: "G'n H" Subject: Where does Joni live now and what does she do? I met a musician who's a good friend of Joni. He told me she lives in Santa Barbara, and that she has been dating with a restaurant keeper lately (I'm not sure if this guy was italian, and that's something I heard a year ago). He also wanted to point out that Joni is an excellent cook (!), she drinks champaign every day and really enjoys her life. : ) G'n H _____________ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 03:26:16 EDT From: KindTaper@aol.com Subject: Where does Joni live now and what does she do? This is just a curiosity. I heard from a friend that she lives near Los Angeles and can be seen at some restaurant or cafe quite often. Has anyone ever met her? What's she like in person? I have also heard that she spends a lot of time painting. Thanks for any info, Wes _____________ _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:05:44 +1000 From: Melissa Subject: Re: Amour, Mama, not cheap display Smurfycopy wrote: <> Are 3The Hissing Demos2 publicly available??? If so, how do I get my hands on a copy??? I9m in Sydney, Australia, and happy to pay. NP: Wind Cries Mary, Jamie Cullum ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 06:28:58 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Amour, Mama, not cheap display **How many times over the years has Joni alluded to her mother in song? - -There's the 6-foot drift's on Myrtle's lawn in "Dreamland". - -The Tea-Leaf Prophecy is basically Myrtle's story of meeting & marrying her husband. - -Let The Wind Carry Me...beautiful song, basically about her & her conflicting parents' attitudes about her growing up. And yep, there are more to be sure. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 06:34:16 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Amour, Mama, not cheap display **Is "In France They Kiss On Main Street" the best song ever written about young love and rock 'n roll and rebellion, or what? Well, it would have to compete with a lot of Chuck Berry classics about those same topics, but it IS a great tune. It's hard to pick a single line but what I love about it is it's 'busyness' - the pace that the song moves to, almost like a teenager fluttering from here to there, from one adventure to the next. And the simple joys of kissing, frivolous and non-committing. One of my favorite album intro songs. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:37:08 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: RE: Amour, Mama, not cheap display Melissa wrote: > Are 3The Hissing Demos2 publicly available??? If so, how do I > get my hands > on a copy??? I9m in Sydney, Australia, and happy to pay. If no one else has offered, I'd be happy to make a copy for you. Just send me your address off-list, and I'll get it in the mail as soon as I can. Hell (just over the ditch in NZ) ____________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 12:25:31 +0000 From: "robin mortlock" Subject: RE: Only an Artist From: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedder) >Subject: Re; Only an artist > >I wrote: >"> I felt that Joni has taught me not to expect > > anything at all - probably > > from anybody and least of all from her. Yes. What i have always been very admirable of in Joni's work is her detatchment - which is odd from an artist that has given us so many insights into her own existence. This quality of letting go of disturbing patterns of thought through music and word and making it, in the main, quite blissful to be around is a great achievement. When i listen to her i feel i am involved in a pattern and not a person, not an ego or even a soul but a distinct slice of that, a story if you like, but never the person - i like this quality and think i has alot to do with her music's longevity. This creates in need a dependency on the work but not her which is why i dont really understand all this cafuffle (spelling?) about the new Geffen release. Whatever she releases be it old or new i have been fed and its the kind of food that makes one question the origin of its hunger. yours letting-goingly Spideog - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 10:12:20 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Amour, Mama, not cheap display Muller writes: << there are more to be sure. >> There's Mama and Betsy, whoever she is, in "Song for Sharon" telling Joni to find a charity. - --Smurf "I DON'T. Buy the tomatoes with. The stems. On them. They don't. Degrade. They go. Down the sink. And into the WATER. Then. They get lodged in the throats of little. OTTERS." - --Christopher Walken, as quoted -- and punctuated -- by Popbitch ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:22:28 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: jonivangelism Lori and Randy wrote: >jon-i-van-gel-ist (noun) >one who attempts to influence others through the use of the >recordings or other works of Joni Mitchell What a great compliment, Randy! Thanks!! : ) Lori, laughing it all away - ----------------- Jonivangelism is a GOOD thing! Recently I was at an Italian restaurant, picking up my favorite Frutti Di Mare pizza, and Counting Crows' BYT was playing. I felt it my absolute duty to educate the sweet young high school girl who was ringing up my order. I asked: "Do you know who wrote this song?" She offered: "Counting Crows?" "No", I smiled. "Joni Mitchell. The greatest singer, songwriter/poet, musician and artist of all time!" "Oh", she nodded and smiled, a little cluelessly, but I hope a little seed was planted. (Or, more likely, the girl just thought: "What a nutcase -- this chick is TWISTED!") In any case, Jonivangelists must always seize the opportunity to spread the good news and make the world a better place! Peace, Patti _________________________________________________________________ MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups  now 3 months FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:37:01 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Re Amour, Mama, not cheap display. Dear Smurphy, Thank you for your post about HIssing....It reminded me of so many things.... When I came back to Joni, in 1998, a friend loaned me a load of her stuff. I duly stored it into my computer hard disc and then hit the shuffle play button. I had not listened to Joni for years (stifled by a marriage to someone who should have adored Joni but only admired her for her bass player!!!) but that is another story..... Anyway. I sat there in the room on the top of my house, overlooking the rooftops towards Portsmouth, and the first song to burst through was In France they Kiss on Main street and I was back to buying Hissing in 1975, hurrying back to my bedsit in Southsea ready to play it on my newly acquired sound system... All that heart soaring music. The smell of rain through an open window and nights of crushed velvet disco dresses and stepping back to my bedsit with my (then) boyfriend to listen to Joni, or the Eagles, or Steely Dan, or 10cc or Santana. Hissing reminds me of dreadful cider, some great parties, trying to eke out food into something tasty and failing miserably. Being unable to sleep because the downstairs residents from Nepal were having another row. Hearing the prostitutes on the corner of the park talking to their clients. Seeing a man decide not to jump from the roof of the house opposite, Watching bailiffs try to evict squatters from another house and seeing them leave covered in eggs and flour. Being aware that I was only just 18 and doing this grown up thing of having my own space to live in... Scary, exciting, memorable! I am sure that across any of the thousands of "discussion lists" for the thousands of fans across this amazing internet web there will be any number of people explaining how a particular song reminds you of a slice of time. all it takes is a set of lyrics, and booooooom! off we go. Thanks Murphy for that. It has made my day to go back there again. Love and hugs Lucy Love your friends because you choose them. Understand your family because no one else can. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 08:45:57 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re; Only an artist >Does that make any sense or am I truly disappearing into my bum? :~) Love Anita xx< It makes profound sense to me & I hope you are writing songs because I think you have something to say girl! Kate www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 08:43:01 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: New Laura Nyro Release (NJC) >Yoiks! Nothing Laura did was remotely folk. I don't know what you would call her music. It's in a class by itself. Yet another reason why it drives me crazy the way they categorize music with these weird labels.< I guess a girl at her piano or with a guitar is automatically considered folk (it probably should be singer songwriter but what happens when the band joins in?)... folk-whatever that is anyway... if anyone has ever attended folk alliance you will see that today's folk is as wide a genre the ocean is vast... it is basically anyone who can play their own instrument & sing whether solo or with others... it can be funky, punky, soulful, rockin, rappin, whatever... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:09:14 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Only an artist njc now? Debra>Then again, there's the real world where artistic integrity bumps into all sorts of other demands, and Joni's integrity has never been as pure as I like to think it is.< Ths reminds me of a quote (I don't have the exact one so its from memory) by Utah Phillips who said something like music is like a clear running mountain stream and by the time it ends up commercialized it's like a large muddy river.... Here is another quote by UP: >"Rock Me to Sleep" was written during my second month in New York City five years ago. At the time, I found myself about to be drawn into a series of transactions over which I was rapidly losing control. I was a stranger to the music industry when I first arrived in New York. The more I became involved in it though, through contracts, licenses, managements and agencies, the more I began to realize that music and the music business are two different things, the former existing only to serve the interests of the latter. A songwriter in the commercial sense is like a coal miner, creating wealth which he does not own. A coal miner goes down into the earth and brings up the coal which is then carried away and sold for the profit of those who own it but do not share the risks of mining. When a miner can no longer do anything which generates profits he is abandoned and someone else found to take his place. It is much the same in any trade. The music trade is peopled with frenetic little men in knee-length leather coats who wear mustaches and neatly trimmed sideburns. They market talent like sides of beef hanging on hooks and displayed in meat market clubs where recording company executives pick and choose according to principles of commercial reliability. Aesthetic considerations are secondary and in any case arbitrated by those who are not involved in the creative process. Deals are made, contracts signed, promotions launched, and careers planned according to the same principles which control the marketing of can openers, eye make-up and laundry detergent. Wealth is created through the manipulation of both the artist and the consumer in a system which is the antithesis of much of what the artist has to say. The music capitals of both coasts abound with the casualties of a star system which, like capitalism itself, is built upon the basest of human emotions, greed and envy. I do not doubt that there are many hard-working, dedicated and honest people who somehow continue to function at the heart of the music industry, but that does not mitigate the fact that the industry itself is corrupt, perverse, absurd and destructive. There is an old Wobbly aphorism which says, "Abundance for workers, nothing for parasites." We who make music are workers creating wealth as surely as coal miners and lumberjacks, wealth which supports a handful of parasites. But that wealth is more than just the money and fame through which we become perverted, despoiled and enslaved. It is the kind of wealth which is central to the best creative energy of our many peoples, a creative energy which can be the best expression of ourselves and the magic of our diversity. If we continue to feed our music to a voracious and insane monster, the diversity will vanish and the creative energy will exhaust itself in vain attempts to secure the favors of a handful of witless tyrants. Surely our many kinds of music and the traditions from which they emerge are worth more than the promises of those who would destroy them for the sake of profit.< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:20:27 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Beginning of Survival >Hi all. It's been a very long time and I've managed to lurk every now and again but with little success in finding time to post. Apologies for dropping in a bit late (and controversially) on this topic, but it sure did stir me from my slumber of nonstop working.< welcome back Brenda, its great to know you are still here & no need to ever apologize for dropping in late cuz you always have something wonderful to add to the conversation... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:17:30 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Amour, Mama, not cheap display In Song for Sharon: "Mama says 'find a charity'" (is that accurate?) LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 14:38:28 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Amour, Mama, not cheap display Actually it's "mama & betsy say, 'find yourself a charity, help the needy and the crippled or put some time into ecology.' db >>> 6/22/2004 2:17:30 PM >>> In Song for Sharon: "Mama says 'find a charity'" (is that accurate?) LAHM This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:13:55 +0000 From: "robin mortlock" Subject: typeface Is there any reason why this type face - is it courier - is used for the JMDL? Whats wrong with highly readable times roman - i dont mind, just asking......... Robin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 17:51:22 -0400 From: Jeff Wasilko Subject: ADMIN: anyone know how to reach les irvin? Hi: I'm one of the smoe-folk behind the scenes that keep the mailing lists running. All mail to jmdl.com has been bouncing for the past week or so. Does anyone have an alternate email address for him? Thanks! - -j ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:20:09 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: ADMIN: anyone know how to reach les irvin? (njc) Jeff at smoe wrote: > I'm one of the smoe-folk behind the scenes that keep the mailing > lists running. All mail to jmdl.com has been bouncing for the past > week or so. Does anyone have an alternate email address for him? I only have les@jmdl.com and ljirvin@jmdl.com, but someone or other here has Les's phone number ... can someone please call Les and let him know? Thanks, Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:40:43 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: typeface (NJC) Robin asked: > Is there any reason why this type face - is it courier - is used for the > JMDL? Whats wrong with highly readable times roman - i dont mind, just > asking......... Robin, are you talking about the font used on the JMDL website, or the font used in the emails and/or digests you receive? I believe the font on the website is mainly (if not exclusively) Verdana. As for the font in emails/digests, those come from the smoe server, and what I see is Courier, but I'm not sure that everyone receives their posts in Courier. But since Jeff from smoe just wrote to us, let's ask him! Jeff? What say you? Does smoe use the Courier font exclusively? : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:48:14 -0400 From: Jeff Wasilko Subject: Re: typeface (NJC) On Tue, Jun 22, 2004 at 03:40:43PM -0700, Lori Fye wrote: > Robin asked: > > > Is there any reason why this type face - is it courier - is used for the > > JMDL? Whats wrong with highly readable times roman - i dont mind, just > > asking......... > > Robin, are you talking about the font used on the JMDL website, or the font used > in the emails and/or digests you receive? I believe the font on the website is > mainly (if not exclusively) Verdana. As for the font in emails/digests, those > come from the smoe server, and what I see is Courier, but I'm not sure that > everyone receives their posts in Courier. > > But since Jeff from smoe just wrote to us, let's ask him! > > Jeff? What say you? Does smoe use the Courier font exclusively? : ) Most mail is just plain text (your was, for example). In that case, your mail program will display it with a fixed -width font (like Courier). You can change that in your mail program's settings, someplace. Currently, HTML mail is converted to plain text as well, since Majordomo 1 can't do digests when the mail is HTML. Majordomo 2 can do the right thing with HTML, and we're planning on moving to it soon. We've been testing it for the last year and all of our new lists are running with Majordomo2 instead... I hope this helps! - -j ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:55:50 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: typeface (NJC) > Most mail is just plain text (your was, for example). In that > case, your mail program will display it with a fixed -width font > (like Courier). You can change that in your mail program's > settings, someplace. I'm using a program called "Horde" and, while it will allow me to view HTML, it unfortunately doesn't allow me to change my outgoing font. (At least not yet.) Oh well. > Majordomo 2 can do the right thing with HTML, and we're planning > on moving to it soon. We've been testing it for the last year and > all of our new lists are running with Majordomo2 instead... Cool! > I hope this helps! It does. Thanks a lot, Jeff! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:05:30 -0400 From: Jeff Wasilko Subject: Re: typeface (NJC) On Tue, Jun 22, 2004 at 06:55:50PM -0400, Lori Fye wrote: > > Most mail is just plain text (your was, for example). In that > > case, your mail program will display it with a fixed -width font > > (like Courier). You can change that in your mail program's > > settings, someplace. > > I'm using a program called "Horde" and, while it will allow me to view HTML, it > unfortunately doesn't allow me to change my outgoing font. (At least not yet.) > Oh well. Hi Lori: I was talking about the ability to configure your mail program's choice of font for reading incoming plain-text mail. Plain-text mail doesn't have anything in it to tell your mail reader to use a specific font, so it usually defaults to something... - -j ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:53:37 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Beginning of Survival Hi Brenda-synchro-I was wishing you were around to clarify some of the biz aspects-and here you are! Nice to have you back - as usual, your comments are lucid and thought provoking. Brenda wrote: > It's the worst bet > imaginable to spend money repackaging music that didn't sell the first > time because the rational (and in almost every case proven) expectation > is that it will sell even less the second or third time around. This gets to some of my original concerns. Assuming you are correct, and Joni wants this out due to her personal convictions- which is consistant with the statements she has made about it- how effective will it be if it doesn't sell? I'm not questioning her RIGHT to do anything she damn well pleases. And personally, I tend to agree with Joni's political and social views. But if these songs were undeniably weak in sales, and arguably weak in general, why try to float a leaky boat? Was there another way she could have made her point without simply repackaging her Geffen work yet again? What if she got Sting, Prince, Bono, Willie Nelson, Diana Krall, Elvis Costello, etc etc to each record one of these songs? She might have a chance for airplay, even. Everyone here would be on board. Or how about a benefit Live Aid/global warming/John Kerry all star thing? VH-1 would probably broadcast it. You're saying this collection won't sell, and Joni and her record co. know it won't. It will lose money. And if people don't buy it, they don't hear it. It's a given that radio won't play it, MTV certainly won't. > I firmly believe that this is happening because Joni wants it to. I think you are right. I think maybe she lives in a pretty insular world, when it comes to these projects. How else can you explain inclusion of the fake Chief Seattle letter? > I seriously question whether she had reversion rights in > her Geffen deal, but I'm willing to bet she has coupling rights and a > record like this cannot even be done without her approval. Since this is her second recent project with Geffen, and she has participated in both, the coupling rights idea surely fits. > She is participating fully. And Joni isn't the only musician who is > working on something like this right now. There will be other records > out this summer and fall from artists who want to say something about > the times we live in. There are executives that I've worked with in > the past who have ditched entertainment to work political campaigns. > There's something going on; it's not 1968 or 1972. It's today. Musicians all over the country have been working on this kind of material all along. It remains to be seen how much political dissent the big record companies will want to put out there, knowing Bush could still be president in 2005. Don't see alot of it now, and the clock is ticking. Toby Keith is okay, though. > I think this record will matter to some people. Just not many of the > ones here. (Except Lori maybe. Good on you for holding it down!) But > that's ok because I don't think it is for the people who have Joni's > entire catalog. Well then, who is the target audience? Not the young-they won't hear it on the radio; a magazine mention or store display would excite them about as much as a Glen Miller release would excite us. If it's not for Joni's hardcore fans, then who? The 40- 60 year olds that bought Blue and Court & Spark? Will they think it is something new? > And she is under no obligation to serve us either. Agreed > If > that makes some people drop out of her fan club or stop checking for > her new records, so be it. I don't think it's going to change her > choices and she certainly doesn't need the money. Needing money and wanting money are two different things. Trump and Mick Jagger don't need the money. But they keep going after it. In Joni's case, I think maybe the money *is* part of it. She never said "I don't care whether Mingus sold or not, it's what I wanted to create," she said Mingus was a carreer misstep because it cost her fans (and sales). Going back further, she was always very business savvy, talking about her "catalog" and choosing her first record deal very carefully. I'm not really saying she is money hungry, although she appears to enjoy the finer things in life. I think for her, commercial success is tied to her self image as an artist. She has bemoaned being misunderstood, underappreciated, and dissed in Rolling Stone. It must stick in her craw to feel she has put out better material than 99% of the rest, yet she is not queen of the music pyramid. She is trying to work her Geffen stuff, at least partly, because she has a bigger share in it than her early Reprise/Asylum work, which was likely a typical late 60's record deal. They gave her artistic freedom, which paid off (mostly for them). I think, as you say, that her beliefs, convictions, and observations about society are a big factor in putting this out. But a financial windfall wouldn't hurt either. And some acclades. > I also find very little reason as to why this compromises her career or > her integrity. Joni is still one of the most respected popular > songwriters alive and this record isn't going to change that. Nothing could diminish my respect for Joni as an artist, and as a human being. But her image amongst the music-loving public could be affected. Look at Paul McCartney. After a while, when he was releasing whatever junk he was whistling while walking the dog, people stopped buying it. He became a joke of sorts, dispite being directly responsible for some of the most timeless popular music ever. > And who > are we to say that she should rerecord these songs acoustically to > satisfy us, especially if she thinks these are the definitive versions? That's not even an option, IMO....she gave up playing years ago, and her voice continues to lose ground. I have no doubt, though, that even with writers block, she could write material as good as the BOS collection. RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:27:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Beginning of Survival - --- Brenda wrote: > Hi all. It's been a very long time and I've managed > to lurk every now > and again but with little success in finding time to > post. Apologies > for dropping in a bit late (and controversially) on > this topic, but it > sure did stir me from my slumber of nonstop working. > > On Thursday, June 17, 2004, at 05:32 PM, Catherine > McKay wrote: > > > If she waits too long, most of us will be dead. > > Maybe she doesn't want it (a box set or an > autobiography) to appear > until after she's dead. > Brenda - it's great to see you back. Any time the cesspool of the music industry topic comes up, I wonder where you are... I can understand Joni possibly not wanting to release the really early stuff, because maybe she won't think the quality is good enough, or because she didn't like the "helium voice" but I really think it would be nice to have some of the unreleased stuff, or the bootleg stuff, come out on a "Life in song" kind of box set. I know I'd buy that one! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:53:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Fwd: Re: Re; Only an artist Sorry for the forward, but my post to the list bounced due to a missing letter. - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:23:28 -0400 (EDT) > From: Catherine McKay > Subject: Re: Re; Only an artist > To: steph@cix.co.uk, joni@smoe.or > CC: anima_rising@yahoo.ca, steph@cix.co.uk > > --- Anita Gabrielle Tedder wrote: > > > I wrote: > > "> I felt that Joni has taught me not to expect > > > anything at all - probably > > > from anybody and least of all from her. Of > course > > > the paradox is that I > > > have huge expectations of her and others - but > > > that's a whole other story." > > > > Catherine responded: > > "Anita, I'm intrigued but not sure what you mean. > Do > > you mean in an "Expect the worse; hope for the > best; > > take what comes" kind of way? Would you mind > > explaining, please?" > > > > In response to Catherine, I think - "Oh blimey, > > someone asking me to be > > specific in my ramblings. Now there's a > challenge!" > > :~) I'm not sure if > > this answers it, but I'll have a go. > > > > The Joni lines that come to mind for me are > > "People will tell you where they've gone they'll > > tell you where to go, but > > tell you get there yourself, you never really > know." > > Or > > " I know no-one's going to show me everything, we > > all come and go > > unknown." Or maybe > > " Why does it come as such a shock to know we > really > > have no-one, only a > > river of changing faces looking for an ocean." > > > > Without wanting to sound too up my bottom, I think > I > > am engaging with my > > existential angst and, in particular, isolation, > > search for meaning and > > death.(Oh, is that all?) In the Joni lines I've > just > > written, I feel that > > Joni is saying find YOUR way, no-one else knows > and > > we are all essentially > > alone. You know, the "If you meet the Buddha on > the > > road, kill him" type > > thing. I feel people sometimes empower others > > (gurus, religion, > > politicians, Joni etc) in order to avoid the > > existential dilemmas. Where I > > feel I am paradoxical is that, whilst I > > intellectually know this, I still > > long for someone else to KNOW THE WAY and to SHOW > ME > > - but I think that's > > because dealing with my ultimate demise and > > isolation are too difficult > > for me, so I run from that but am also amused by > my > > ridiculous self too > > which still often craves someone else to take > > responsibility for my life! > > OOOOoooo I am such a baby. And then, of course, > > when someone else has > > tried to take over my life, I resented them > totally > > and utterly. Put them > > up on the pedestal and wait five minutes and I'll > > knock 'em down! Just > > like most people, probably. > > > > Does that make any sense or am I truly > disappearing > > into my bum? :~) > > Thanks, Anita. I hesitated to ask you to explain... > because I understand how difficult it sometimes is > to > put into words the feelings and impressions that we > get sometimes. Words are sometimes so inadequate and > so often subject to misinterpretation. I'm a bit of > an > existentialist myself, I guess - in so many ways, > even > in a crowd, we are so much alone. I sometimes wish > we > could just hook up with other people brain to brain > and download, so we could totally understand what > others are trying to say and what they're feeling, > instead of getting all mixed up with language, and > using the wrong words, or misunderstanding others, > when WE think we're being perfectly clear. > > I think that people who appreciate Joni's words are > people who think and feel a great deal, and we take > so > much meaning from her words - because there is so > much > meaning. Look at how many different ways people have > interpreted what any particular phrase or song means > to them (that's not even including the mondegreens > or > the notches, liberation doll kind of thing), and any > of these interpretations can be right. > > I don't think you're disappearing up your own bum at > all (but then, maybe I do it, so who am I to judge?) > > > I'm enjoying the new expressions a person can learn > around here. Just in the last few days, I've > accumulated a few, so that I'm dying to try out a > new > phrase on someone (no one here, of course): "Ahh, > you're disappearing up your own bum, you whingeing > git!" > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > We all live so close to that line, and so far from > satisfaction > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:04:47 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Where does Joni live now and what does she do? Hello all, I've been off the scope for several weeks but began to check my email after hearing the sad news of MG's passing - so hard to comprehend. Julius - thank you for such a beautiful tribute to her. I also noticed that Lori sent in an old post of mine from Sept. 29, 2001 in response to what Joni is up to and which related the day Stephen from Vancouver and I had a chat with her at lunch. Since the recent repost I have had some private inquiries about my "recent" lunch with Joni!! Just wanted to clarify that the post was from a long time ago and that I have not had a recent meet-up with her ;-) I did enjoy hearing that she may be hanging out in Santa Barbara these days with a new boyfriend. As far as meeting Joni, I have estimated that upwards of 70 people on the list have met her since the list was started. Most of the meetings have been after concerts or at her art exhibitions. Everyone has related how friendly and fantastic she is and many of those recollections can be found in the JMDL archives or at JoniMitchell.com. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 00:11:05 -0500 From: "mackoliver" Subject: where? njc Where in the heck is Kakki? This list without her is quite not as good as before. mack np: missy, missy, and more missy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 02:10:24 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: June 23 On June 23 the following articles were published: 1998: "Back to the Garden" - Orange County Times Herald (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=29 1998: "Back to the Garden" - Orange County Times Herald (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=28 1998: "Back to the Garden" - SonicNet website (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=26 1998: "Back to the Garden" - Los Angeles Times (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=25 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 02:17:22 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: legal schmegal NJC Subject: Re: Even more Survival stuff >>Master tapes revert to the artist after x years. I think it's ten.<< I'm not sure, but I don't think so. And the recordings, in most cases, never belonged to the recording artist in the first place, so they can't revert. Again, I'm not sure but I don't think the artist gets production rights automatically after ten years, unless their contract calls for that. Of course many artists these days are holding on to the production rights from the outset and only leasing the recording, so to speak, to the label for release. Van Morrison is doing that. Bryan ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #279 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)