From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #261 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, June 11 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 261 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Peter Pan's sexuality njc [colin ] Re: Peter Pan's sexuality (NJC) [colin ] Re: is it just me????, njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: What is your war cry? NJC [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: What is your war cry? NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: What is your war cry? NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: A Case Of You - not for the squeamish NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: is it just me????, njc [Em ] Re: is it just me????, njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: is it just me????, njc (PC) ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: is it just me????, njc (PC) ["Victor Johnson" ] dr laura's joke njc [colin ] Re: is it just me????, njc ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Peter Pan's sexuality (NJC) ["mackoliver" ] RE: troy njc ["Kate Bennett" ] njc,release of "fahrenheit 9/11" ["Patti Parlette" ] Reagan njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Monster njc ["Ron" ] Re: What is your war cry? NJC ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: is it just me????, njc ["Donna Binkley" ] NJC, the Reagan spectacle ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Reagan njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: is it just me????, njc [Lori Fye ] nine hundred nights - njc (but some janis) ["Ron" ] RE: Is it just me???? njc, PC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: troy njc ["Ron" ] Re: A Case Of You - not for the squeamish NJC ["Ron" ] RE: (NJC) Ray Charles died today ["Kate Bennett" ] Death of a spokesmodel njc [FredNow@aol.com] RE: (NJC) Ray Charles died today [notaro@stpt.usf.edu] Re: A Case Of You - not for the squeamish [Em ] Re: (NJC) Ray Charles died today [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: nine hundred nights - njc (but some janis) [Em ] Re: nine hundred nights - njc (but some janis) [vince ] Re: is it just me????, njc (PC) ["Steven Otto" ] Re: is it just me????, njc (PC) [tantra_apso ] Re: A Case Of You - not for the squeamish [Ricw1217@aol.com] Re: is it just me????, njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: is it just me????, njc (PC) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: is it just me????, njc [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:44:52 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Peter Pan's sexuality njc robin mortlock wrote: >COlin on Peter Pan film: > >John and I also saw this film-or rather half of it. It did seem > > >>promosing and started well. We found the sexual overtones of the film >>worrying considering the age of the characters. It left a rather >>unpleasant feeling with us and we didn't finish watching the film. >> >> > > > >Ah come on - what are you afraid to see? > not a good way to ask a question. > I thought the film sexual too > it was/is. >but that is the point of the story, no? > is it? > Peter behaved like lots of men >who enjoy their boyish freedom but dont want the responsibility of their >actions, preferring to remain a boy. > and lots of women too > The 'growing up' and leaving >Neverland is a step into puberty, the childish sexuality a kind of >tentative step into that world. > and should not be displayed for adults. > Did you have no-one in your >childhood/puberty that you experimented with? > we won't go there. > The story offers a bridge >for children into a world of hormones and ADULT sensations . > >Can you expand on this 'unpleasant feeling'. > > > Easy. Children should never ever be used in such a way. It is abusive. The children in this film would have had no idea what the director was up to. They were exploited. Maybe I should be surprised that the strong sexual overtones of this film got passed the censors, but I am not. Childrens right to be children and not objects for the gratification of adults is not high on anyone's agenda. The actors in this film were children and they were made to appear very sexual with eachother. It was not for children that this was done. It was exploitative to do this. The fact that this can be justifeid by people, such as yourself, in the name of art or some other cockeyed intellectualization deosn't make it any less so. I don't know why it wasn't advertised directly for 'child lovers'. aside; I don't think childrens sexual feelings are 'adult sensartions'. they are natural sensations and children feel them innocently. Adult sensations are often accomapnied by much more than sensation and are not so pure. I don't mean that adult sexuality is bad. I mean that for a child these sensations are not tinged with anything but their feeling. There is an innoncence to them. Of course, this is not the case for all children-often these feelings are corrupoted by the adults around them in one way or another. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:49:31 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Peter Pan's sexuality (NJC) Lori Fye wrote: > Why can't we allow children to be children as long as >possible? > > > I think because too many adults have wiped out any notion of what it is like to be a child. Childhood is so romanticised. In reality, childhood is not a good place for many a child. In our societies at any rate, adults, rather than face their own feelings in childhood, grow up, blot it out, and childhood then becomes some gloriously happy fairy tale we use to bolster our adult negative feelings. Then we onder why w ehave so much difficulty and why we do the same things that were done to us to the next generation. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 06:31:58 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: is it just me????, njc Lori writes: << Do you think that Clinton, who also served two terms and who many consider to have been quite a fine president, will receive the same honors when he dies? >> Ha! Clinton would be lucky to get another subpoena! And Reagan wasn't 89, Lori. He was 93. - --Smurf NPIMH: Only the Good Die Young "I have left orders to be awakened at any time in case of national emergency, even if I'm in a cabinet meeting." --Ronald Reagan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 06:55:05 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: What is your war cry? NJC Helen, hands clutching a sharpened screwdriver, writes: << I'm going to punch you so utterly, you'll reincarnate as an X-file!!! >> Yea, verily: Who is that, striding along the steppes! It is Smurf, hands clutching a studded crowbar! And with an ominous cry, his voice cometh: "I'm going to smash you beyond capacity, and then some!" Here's one for our friend *W* (AKA Wally) down Mexico way: Running through the mini-mall parking lot, wielding a bladed baseball bat, cometh *W*! And he gives a vengeful scream: "You in some shit now, muhfuh! I tear into the enemy with God on my side!!" And one for Paz: Who is that, striding through the plains! It is Paz, hands clutching a burning branch! And with an ominous bellow, his voice cometh: "I'm going to fuck you so painfully, you will wake up from the Matrix!!!" Gee, talk about getting pinned in a corner! How do these Internet things *know*? They always seem to get it so right . . . - --Smurf "I have left orders to be awakened at any time in case of national emergency, even if I'm in a cabinet meeting." --Ronald Reagan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:04:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: What is your war cry? NJC --- hell wrote: > These things are so juvenile, but so much fun! > > http://www.madville.com/link.php?id=48329&t=20 > Mine: Who is that, rampaging on the tarmac! It is Catherine, hands clutching a thorned whip! And with an ominous roar, her voice cometh: "I'm going to spank you to the moon and back, and throw you out the window!!" Joni's: Zang! Who is that, skulking through the desert! It is Joni, hands clutching a bladed baseball bat! She roars thunderously: "I'm going to turn you into part of my balanced breakfast!!!" ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:26:25 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: What is your war cry? NJC **"I'm going to spank you to the moon and back, and throw you out the window!!"** NOW we're talking!! Whatcha doin' tonight, Cat? Mine: Running over the plains, swinging buzzsaw hand extensions, cometh SCJoniguy! And he gives a bloodthirsty cry: "By Odin's mighty spear, I lay waste to all I see until everything has croaked!!" This doesn't really sound much like me though as I'm not a violent person...oh except for the spanking thing. Bob NP: Todd Rundgren, "Happy Anniversary" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:28:15 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: A Case Of You - not for the squeamish NJC **Do you suppose people like that do this to be amusing? or do they really think they sound good? I'm certain that I don't know, but you would sorta have to assume that she thinks it's pretty good or she wouldn't have posted it on her site, you think? Do I dare listen to the other clips on her site? I may have to have a couple of Rolling Rocks first. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 05:06:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: is it just me????, njc LOL Lama, you crack me up. Whiff of crappola huh?? well, I don't doubt it... I keep thinking what would I have felt if that big ol "to-do" were Ray Charles's funeral and then I think it would have been just AWESOME. Woulda got a big thumbs up from me. (Excepting the militaristic parts.) But the horse drawn caisson or carriage, yeah woulda loved to see that for Ray on national TV. 6 white horses baby! So I admit to being warped. ;) As far as being a "kid", lmao!!!! yes I was a kid at the time of the Kennedy assasination (as were you, most probably) but today I am quite elderly. In fact TODAY I'm f_cking 45 years old!!!!!!! << wrote: > My favorite newbie, Em said, > >Is it just me????... or is this funeral of Ronald Reagan like the > biggest freakin' deal you've ever seen? > Anyone?? Am I full of crappola?> > --- > With all due respect Em, yeah it's a bit over the top, but yeah, > there's > a whiff of crapola. Remember the JFK funeral in 1963? You're > probably > a kid. If so, trust me, kid. They had a horse-drawn carriage and > public schools were closed for a loooooong time. The news was full > of > purple language like "This is the end of Camelot!" Plus we had a > supernaturally beautiful widow. Remember the black and white shot of > > JFK's young son, John, saluting our fallen leader, just like the > soldiers? > > But hey, people need to let it out. I saw one woman who barely spoke > > english saying, "A man such as this, does not exist." People need > heros > even if they're flawed heros. > > Hey, tag those njc ones or everyone gets sidetracked on THAT instead > of > important news. > > Lama > > PS, not that anyone cares but today is a terrific day in Covington. > I > just got an email that said my favorite working band, The Cowboy > Junkies > of Toronto, Ontario, are coming to town. The reason it's > extraordinarily good news is because they are booked into an 1900 > movie > theatre turned concert hall. !! The place sounds as good as our > world-renouned Music Hall in Cincinnati. I couldn't believe it. I > thought I mis-read it. I thought it was a hoax. I read it 3 times > before I clicked the link. > > Are the Junkies are too old to play the stinky college-town beer > halls? > I hope so. > > Margo & the boys play for 500. This is too > good > to be true. Excuse me now. I have to sell some records... some > CDs... > all unused camera lenses... maybe some plasma... maybe the B&W 16x20 > > swimming pool outtake from HOSL... Naw. ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:25:49 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: is it just me????, njc Jinger writes: << In fact TODAY I'm f_cking 45 years old!!!!!!! <<> Happy birthday, Jing! If I had known I would have posted a birthday wish from the Birthday Gnome (who's nothing compared to the BF or the DBF but still gets the job done!) XO, - --Smurf "I have left orders to be awakened at any time in case of national emergency, even if I'm in a cabinet meeting." --Ronald Reagan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:07:31 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: is it just me????, njc (PC) (Sigh) I've been reading the pros and cons of this thread and I must say that for me, this is about death. This is about that sadness which comes when a person's life force departs his body. I'm sorry, I have a bit of a hard time when someone is actually glad another person is dead. Human nature being what it is will always ritualize death in some way; there is no getting around that. Whether it is in excess is in the eye of the beholder. As for what kind of man Ronald Reagan was and whether or not he is deserving of this state funeral, there are just as many people who admired him as despised him. I did neither but did respect him as human being and as a past commander in chief. I will stand by my right to feel that way. To me, it is always sad when a person dies, especially after battling such a terrible disease such as Alzeimers. Some would say it was poetic justice. I'm just glad I don't have to be the judge or jury in this matter. It is quite a burdensome job. I usually don't speak out on political subjects but I feel that we all need a little shred of dignity just for passing through that great chasm we call death. Life always has a way of balancing things out. Sherelle (Who is sad over the passing of Ray Charles and so sorry she did not get a chance to see him while he was alive) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups  now 3 months FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:05:48 -0700 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Re: A Case Of You - not for the squeamish That could be the single worst version of any song ever! What an astoundingly oblivious performance. Rick 6/10/04 3:37 PM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote > Scroll to the bottom and click - if you dare, mwah hah hah.... > > http://www.redheadedpoet.com/music.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:12:18 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: is it just me????, njc (PC) > I've been reading the pros and cons of this thread and I must say that for > me, this is about death. This is about that sadness which comes when a > person's life force departs his body. I'm sorry, I have a bit of a hard time > when someone is actually glad another person is dead. Human nature being > what it is will always ritualize death in some way; there is no getting > around that. Whether it is in excess is in the eye of the beholder. > I usually don't speak out on political subjects but I feel that we all need > a little shred of dignity just for passing through that great chasm we call > death. Life always has a way of balancing things out. I agree Sherelle. I think you're right on the mark. > Sherelle > (Who is sad over the passing of Ray Charles and so sorry she did not get a > chance to see him while he was alive) I had the chance to see Ray Charles twice, both times in Centennial Park. He was with the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra and I got such a wonderful vibe from him. I could feel the joy emanating and could tell he was having a jolly good time. Victor Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:13:51 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: is it just me????, njc > And Reagan wasn't 89, Lori. He was 93. Oops. Thanks for the correction, Smurf. Just goes to show you how little attention I tried to pay to the man. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:24:49 +0100 From: colin Subject: dr laura's joke njc I have just woken from a nap. I was having a very nice dream, a really nice dream, when at the crucial point dr Laura sent me an email. In the way of dreams, the email completely ruined the threesome I was having. In dreams it appears you don't need to have a pc for emails to arrive. I wonder if our dr laura has a habit of interrupting crucial moments? ;-) - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:33:47 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: is it just me????, njc Finally we agree on a point: Idealism is the key need being supported. If people weren't watching, TV would have us back on "Hollywood Squares" so fast no one would ask "How come Regan's funeral wasn't covered?" I think middle America is eating it up. We're still reeling from 911, taking over Iraq, and humiliating civilians instead of freeing them. I was never a Reagan supporter. I think we need a thinking person in there, like a former engineer with a strong moral compass (Carter), an attorney (Clinton, Nixon), military leader (Eisenhower), or govorner (Johnson?). To me, Reagan gave meaningless sound-bites that could have been written for a super-hero. ("There you *go* again.") He gave me the willies from the beginning. He was all "presentation". I felt then as I do now: that the President may be a "C" student but I have to hope he's surrounded by good people. BTW, I read 2 weeks ago that it's likely that Sec. of State Powell won't be back if Bush is re-elected. Powell & Rice are the only people who seem to think before they answer. They give balanced, rational answers for this administration and I shudder to think was messes the Administration will lead us into without them. Yeah, I think Clinton will have a fine funeral but that's not going to be for a long time. If we're at war when he passes and times are hard, people will fall all over themselves to canonize him too. And for the same reason: to recapture some idealism which leads right back to your most excellent point. Lama with Friday off, playing "Innervisions" by Stevie Wonder Lori Fye wrote: > Perhaps Americans are trying to recapture some of the idealism of 1963 right > now. I can't figure out any other reason for all of these false memories of > how "good" the Reagan years were. > > Do you think that Clinton, who also served two terms and who many consider to > have been quite a fine president, will receive the same honors when he dies? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:09:17 -0500 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Re: Peter Pan's sexuality (NJC) I have nothing but good memories of Peter Pan and Never Never Land. Came from a book my sister used to read to me when I was a little boy. Won't see this movie and watched only a little of that horrid thing with Julia Roberts. Won't let Hollywood and their silliness ruin something so magical, which it was and is. There was no sex there then and won't be now, not in my never land. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:23:55 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: troy njc >*W*, who *got* the whole achilles/patroclus, david/jonathan, jesus/john Really, Jesus & John? I never thought... Well, we've had The Last Temptation of Christ & The Passion (& of course Life of Brian) but this is something new that is just begging for a movie... do you think it would be controversial ;~} ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:34:10 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc,release of "fahrenheit 9/11" Most of you probably know this already, but just in case you don't: "Fahrenheit 9/11" will FINALLY be released in the U.S. on June 25th. You can see the trailer at www.michaelmoore.com. I'm hoping this film will provide an excellent antidote* to all we've had to endure in the media this past week! I also hope it will open some people's eyes. Peace, Patti *Webster's Collegiate Dictionary defines "antidote" as 1. A remedy to counteract the effects of POISON. 2. Whatever tends to counteract EVIL that something else might produce. (Emphasis by using capital letters is mine.) _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:53:01 -0400 From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Peter Pan's sexuality (NJC) Mac says: << There was no sex there then and won't be now, not in my never land. >> That's pretty much how things have been going lately in my Neverland, too! - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:11:33 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: A Case Of You - not for the squeamish I sure hope this singer is not a lurking member of the JMDL! I'd hate to hurt anyone's feelings. At 07:05 AM 6/11/2004 -0700, you wrote: >That could be the single worst version of any song ever! What an >astoundingly oblivious performance. > > 6/10/04 3:37 PM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote > > > Scroll to the bottom and click - if you dare, mwah hah hah.... > > > > http://www.redheadedpoet.com/music.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:54:17 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Peter Pan's sexuality (NJC) > Mac says: > > << There was no sex there then and won't be now, not in > my never land. >> > > That's pretty much how things have been going lately in my Neverland, too! > > --Smurf > Y'all have been hanging around with the wrong fairies! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:39:21 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Reagan njc >I don't know, before George W. Bush came around, I always thought Reagan was our worst president. With Reganomics, didn't the rich get richer and the poor get poorer? Those Reagan years were some of my toughest time financially & I remember how many were suffering in addition to me... I was (& still am) living in the same town where he had his western whitehouse... I remember what a big deal it was when he & his entourage would sweep into town with secret service & news people filling up the hotels... I remember when the queen of England came to visit during one of our worst ever winter rain storms & he tried to take her up to his ranch but the road was impassible... the picture I have in my mind of that scenario is quite funny... I also remember when the rural residents who lived on that once upon a time quiet narrow mountain road had to live with months & months (a year or more?) of huge trucks constantly coming & going up & down the mountain road to create whatever it is they need to create (security wise) to prepare his ranch to be his western whitehouse... it was a nightmare for all his neighbors... I do not like to speak ill of the dead but all this media hoopla has brought me to remembering those years & what just hit me like a ton of bricks is how ironic it is that some (probably most are not from this town) are memorializing him by purchasing his ranch & a building downtown (http://www.reaganranch.org/leadership/leadersh.htm) when as far as I know the reagan's did very little or possible absolutely nothing for this community other than live here... this town has extreme wealth & extreme poverty... many very wealthy & high profile people live here & the vast majority of them put a lot of time & money into making this community a better place for those who live here who 'have not'... it is almost a cultural given that residents who 'have' dedicate themselves to a cause out of gratitude for living in such a remarkable & beautiful community... the list of people with wealth & celebrity who have done good works in our community are many & as far as I know the reagans are not on that list in spite of their widely professed love of their ranch... I guess this is a physical example of how isolated they were from everyday people & life (in spite of reagan's down to earth rancher image) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 20:32:36 +0200 From: "Ron" Subject: Re: Monster njc hi >>>jamie wrote >>>> Yes, Charlize is the daughter of Mr & Mrs Theron (pronounced Tearr -on) and she's Afrikaans. pronunciation te - ronn with a kind of flat sound on the o >>>>But for a South African farm girl to play an American serial killer, it's quite a leap, yes, not quite a farm girl - she's from, mmm - cant remember now - benoni or brakpan - normally pronounced with exagerated low class accent and condescending attitude - its an area really looked down on here as being very low class and common, and there are a lot of jokes about the locals (tho i cant think of any at the moment....) - guess charlize showed them ;-) the funniest part here has been the big fuss about her oscar. all of a sudden its a big thing the country accomplished. to which i say bullshit - its individual - something she accomplished (tho obviously other individuals contributed) & good luck to her........ ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:59:38 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: What is your war cry? NJC Here's my war cry I swear I didn't make this up but it's what I'd say really! ha ha db Who is that, rampaging across the hotel lobby! It is Donna, hands clutching two hardened pitas! And with a booming howl, her voice cometh: "I'm going to hump you like it's a new extreme sport!" >>> "hell" 6/11/2004 12:40:37 AM >>> These things are so juvenile, but so much fun! http://www.madville.com/link.php?id=48329&t=20 Here's my war-cry: Zang! Who is that, skulking through the fields! It is Helen, hands clutching a sharpened screwdriver! She bellows homicidally: "I'm going to punch you so utterly, you'll reincarnate as an X-file!!!" Hell - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:03:08 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: is it just me????, njc >>> 6/11/2004 5:31:58 AM >>> Lori writes: << Do you think that Clinton, who also served two terms and who many consider to have been quite a fine president, will receive the same honors when he dies? >> Yes he will be buried in a cigar shaped coffin. db This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:11:38 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: NJC, the Reagan spectacle Patti >And Kate Bennett, my sympathies to you. I just went to www.santabarbara.com (just to see something pretty) and guess whose picture is on the homepage? Sheesh!!! You just can't escape it this week.< LOL! But I have been far removed from it all... ironically because of the fire which closed down the freeway which routed all California north south traffic up our mountain pass rendering it a parking lot on & off for days & virtually isolating us from getting to town... Reagan's death has taken a backseat to most of us here because of this fire... I was not far from the area where the fire broke out (I was not at home), & had a friend coming to meet me who was caught on the freeway before they shut it down & saw the flames approaching his car (the fire jumped the freeway right after he got through)... my only thought has been that if this fire was that close to the Reagan Ranch & with all the erratic winds going on that my home (some miles away but all that is between the Reagan Ranch & my home is national forest where they often let the fire burn & really cannot do anything about it) might be in danger... And if it were not for the change of weather this fire could have been a gigantic disaster. We've had fires over the years that have come close to taking out the entire town. That have destroyed homes & lives. That disaster may still come. We have already had two out of control fires this year (fire season is month ahead of schedule)... aircraft is essential to fight these fires & the federal gov't just grounded all of the planes used to fight fires because of their age. Here is just one example of the insanity right now... from the local paper yesterday (http://www.independent.com/news/news916.htm): "In his report to the Board of Supervisors Monday morning, Fire Chief John Scherrei detailed the progress against the fire and - perhaps because it was a budget hearing day - suggested that if aerial assistance had been available earlier in the day, the fire might not have grown to the size it has become. "We have to do something to have a helicopter available. We had witnesses who saw that fire when it was 6 feet square," he said, explaining that if the county had a helicopter and pilot available at all times, there were some areas that could have been saved from the flames. (The county does have a helicopter and two pilots, but one is in Iraq and the other does not work on Saturday.) In any case, more than a dozen aircraft arrived by the weekend's end, as did the ground support of such outfits as the Laguna Hot Shots, the Tulare County Fire Department, and Arcadia Municipal Fire Department. Rumors suggested that the fast federal and state assistance to a remote and mostly rural wildfire was related to the location of Ronald Reagan's ranch near the top of Refugio Canyon, yet no one could confirm such reports. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:19:23 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Reagan njc Kate writes: << I do not like to speak ill of the dead but all this media hoopla has brought me to remembering those years >> It's difficult not to remeb at this time, Kate. They were terrible years for many. And to those who will sanctimoniously say, "Oh, but a real live person has died, how can anyone be so cruel to find pleasure in his death?" I say do us all a favor and get hip, will you? Go to yesterday's posts and check out the articles Richard from SF posted, which I am sure you have not read if you can still have this insulting attitude. The fact is, for many people in communities devastated by AIDS, Reagan is closer to a Hitler figure than to any benign patriarch. The mere mention of his name is enough to bring back memories of the horrific deaths many of our friends and family members suffered as their "leader" turned his back on them. This funeral spectacle is really a bit much to ask many people to just accept with grace, so if you're one of those who's critical of those of us who are sick of this "moaning in America," and you really want to make good use of your surplus of compassion, think of the multitudes who would be alive today if this man had had a heart. Cry for them. - --Smurf, who also thinks TV had more to do with the end of communism than Reagan's foreign policy ever did . . . "I have left orders to be awakened at any time in case of national emergency, even if I'm in a cabinet meeting." --Ronald Reagan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:23:54 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: is it just me????, njc << Do you think that Clinton, who also served two terms and who many consider to have been quite a fine president, will receive the same honors when he dies? >> > Yes he will be buried in a cigar shaped coffin. db Touchi, Donna! Lori, who visualizes Monica on her knees in mourning ... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:16:50 +0200 From: "Ron" Subject: nine hundred nights - njc (but some janis) hi this pitched up in my in box today - its a dvd of big brother & the holding com with some janis - does anyone know this dvd??? is it worth getting http://www.kalahari.net/mus/product.asp?toolbar=none&sku=27841525 ron np - robbie robertson - rattlebone ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:27:48 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Is it just me???? njc, PC >2) Kate mentioned a NYT article about "Bush wanting to be Reagan." That may be, but if you're speaking of the NYT Magazine piece circa 1/26/03, Kate--I just happen to remember that date, for other reasons--I think it went beyond mere "wannabe-ism," and actually made the case that Bush is politically and ideologically much more cut from the Reagan mold than he is like his own father.< Hi Mary, yes I am sure that must be the one I read... it was in the mag section & was long... I agree with what you said above... the fact that he was from that mold also (to me) implied that it was a conscious choice on bush's part (like a young man modeling his life on someone who was a role model)... just one small example is that bush was not always a rancher, he got his ranch just prior to becoming president Then of course there are all those PNAC folks who are all about wanting to bring back the military spending of the Reagan era... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:26:01 +0200 From: "Ron" Subject: Re: troy njc hi - --> >*W*, who *got* the whole achilles/patroclus, david/jonathan, jesus/john > mmm - i hink you missed some - whatabout frodo & sam, merry & pippin, the dwarf & the troll (guess who watched return of the king recently), abbot & costello, laurel & hardy, simon & garrfunkel..... (damn - running out of ideas) ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:28:11 +0200 From: "Ron" Subject: Re: A Case Of You - not for the squeamish NJC hi omg - my cat just bolted out the room with her fur all fluffed up - standing near the speaker during a particularly intense shriek on "silent all these years" :-) go on - give it a try - i dare you!!!!! ron - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 1:28 PM Subject: Re: A Case Of You - not for the squeamish NJC > **Do you suppose people like that do this to be amusing? > or do they really think they sound good? > > I'm certain that I don't know, but you would sorta have to assume that she > thinks it's pretty good or she wouldn't have posted it on her site, you think? > > Do I dare listen to the other clips on her site? I may have to have a couple > of Rolling Rocks first. > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:31:01 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: (NJC) Ray Charles died today I am truly in mourning for this soulful & incredible talented man... rip ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:40:05 -0400 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Death of a spokesmodel njc Lori Fye wrote: >>Perhaps Americans are trying to recapture some of the idealism of 1963 right >>now. I can't figure out any other reason for all of these false memories of >>how "good" the Reagan years were. A huge problem in America is the pervasive (and, unfortunately, growing) lack of education, cultural awareness, and general worldliness. Add to this a widespread obsession with celebrity, and particularly the inability to distinguish between reality and fantasy. And then along comes a polished spokesmodel for a mythical Norman Rockwell America which never existed, at a time when the country was still reeling from confronting the hard reality of the fallibility of leadership in the wake of Vietnam and Watergate (not to mention the general turmoil of the 1960s, including movements striving for civil rights for all those marginalized by white straight males, a genuine cultural revolution, the assassinations of two Kennedys, King, Malcolm X, and others), and voila! ... Ronald Reagan, spokesmodel extraordinaire. He was popular because people wanted to wrap their awakened insecurities and fears in the comforting blanket of American myth, and no one could sell that myth better than Reagan. And that's why we see the huge outpouring of misty emotion surrounding his death, which is especially baffling coming from those who were either small children or not even born during his time ... they are totally freaked out by the world of today (and justifiably so), and they long to be comforted by that warm fuzzy myth once again. What people are actually mourning is not Reagan, but innocence lost. Millions upon millions of people all over the world have suffered, and are still suffering, his legacy and influence ... just about all the domestic and global problems we face today under President Junior have their roots in the Reagan administration, only now they're much, much worse. One might ask if I can say anything good about the man? Yes -- he and Nancy seemed to love each other deeply, although, frankly, a grown man calling his wife "Mommy" gives me the creeps. - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:48:51 -0400 (EDT) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: RE: (NJC) Ray Charles died today One of my desert isle discs is Ray Charles and Cleo Laine's Porgy and Bess. A true masterpiece. The man was a giant, and genius, and a true singer of soul. Jerry Quoting Kate Bennett : > I am truly in mourning for this soulful & incredible talented man... > rip ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:09:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: A Case Of You - not for the squeamish LMAO!!!!!!!!! Just listened to this now... made me wonder when they're gona do "singer-songwriter covers" night on American Idol. GF and I laughed our asses off! And it freaked my speakers out! :) Em - --- Rick and Susan wrote: > That could be the single worst version of any song ever! What an > astoundingly oblivious performance. > > Rick > > 6/10/04 3:37 PM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote > > > Scroll to the bottom and click - if you dare, mwah hah hah.... > > > > http://www.redheadedpoet.com/music.html ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:36:27 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Ray Charles died today **The man was a giant, and genius, and a true singer of soul. I was reading about him on the web, and as soon as they mentioned "Hit The Road Jack" I was immediately transported back to Paz' backyard, all of us in a circle singing improv verses and getting our ankles gnawed on by chigger bugs. A grand memory! Bob NP: Repairs, "Woodstock" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:43:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: nine hundred nights - njc (but some janis) Hi Ron, I just ordered it. Thanks for pointing it out. Didn't know of its existence. Just got the 3 CD set the other day and am quite enamored of the real early, not released, non studio stuff. Looking forward to interviews too on the DVD, and heck just anything that makes me feel like I can have ANY contact with Janis AT ALL. It pains me that this woman is not with us. And I ALWAYS wonder what she'd be up to if she were here. It messes w/my head - I just feel I was supposed to move through my life with this woman here on earth with me. And she's not.. Watching interviews with her allow me to "connect" for a minute, and it helps. If "songs are tattoos" then people are tattoos too, and she certainly remains INDELIBLY etched in my soul. I honestly miss this woman, who died when I was I think 9 or just turned 10, but who accompanied me, sometimes not for the best, through my "scuffling days" of the 70's and early 80's. damn I hope there's a heaven... sorry to be weepy.. :) Em - --- Ron wrote: > hi > > > this pitched up in my in box today - its a dvd of big brother & the > holding > com with some janis - does anyone know this dvd??? is it worth > getting > > http://www.kalahari.net/mus/product.asp?toolbar=none&sku=27841525 > > > ron > > np - robbie robertson - rattlebone ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:51:49 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: nine hundred nights - njc (but some janis) I have no clue - never heard of this and it so much depends on what performances and stuff are on there, rare or just re packaged. kalahari a play on amazon? What does 175 rand go for these days? The days when I could read a bit of Afrikaans and translate rand to dollars are long gone Ron wrote: >hi > > >this pitched up in my in box today - its a dvd of big brother & the holding >com with some janis - does anyone know this dvd??? is it worth getting > >http://www.kalahari.net/mus/product.asp?toolbar=none&sku=27841525 > > >ron > >np - robbie robertson - rattlebone ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:57:00 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: What is your war cry? NJC After laughing for at least 10 minutes from Donna's war cry, I had to go there. Here's mine: Lo! Who is that, prowling amidst the steppes! It is Ashara, hands clutching a mighty sword! She grunts homicidally: "Brace yourself, oh human speck of dust! I bring annihilation and cheap beer!!" Hugs, Ashara of the cheap beer! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 23:13:14 +0100 From: tantra_apso Subject: Re: is it just me????, njc For hours, on two BBC channels(BBC1 and NEWS24), Reagan's funeral was broadcast. i don't get it. I doubt very much we will have that for Thatcher. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:20:01 -0400 From: "Steven Otto" Subject: Re: is it just me????, njc (PC) Well Sherrelle, OF COURSE this is how you would feel. I have lurked on this list long enough to remember when you said that you didn't "AGREE" with homosexuality. You just don't get it. PERIOD. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sherelle Smith" To: <> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 9:07 AM Subject: Re: is it just me????, njc (PC) > (Sigh) > > I've been reading the pros and cons of this thread and I must say that for > me, this is about death. This is about that sadness which comes when a > person's life force departs his body. I'm sorry, I have a bit of a hard time > when someone is actually glad another person is dead. Human nature being > what it is will always ritualize death in some way; there is no getting > around that. Whether it is in excess is in the eye of the beholder. > > As for what kind of man Ronald Reagan was and whether or not he is > deserving of this state funeral, there are just as many people who admired > him as despised him. I did neither but did respect him as human being and as > a past commander in chief. I will stand by my right to feel that way. To me, > it is always sad when a person dies, especially after battling such a > terrible disease such as Alzeimers. Some would say it was poetic justice. > I'm just glad I don't have to be the judge or jury in this matter. It is > quite a burdensome job. > > I usually don't speak out on political subjects but I feel that we all need > a little shred of dignity just for passing through that great chasm we call > death. Life always has a way of balancing things out. > > Sherelle > (Who is sad over the passing of Ray Charles and so sorry she did not get a > chance to see him while he was alive) > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups  now 3 months FREE! > http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:37:38 +0100 From: tantra_apso Subject: Re: is it just me????, njc (PC) Am I glad Reagan has died? yes. Because of his politics? No. Because of his homophobia? No. I am glad because he was 93 and had been suffering a long time and so had those around him who loved him. Also, he now has to see clearly. I don't get why so many who say they have such strong religious belief are sad that he is has passed over. Surely it is something to be cheerful about? I have no religion but am no athiest. I believe we all survive death intact and then we get to face ourselves as we really are and not how we imagined we were. Then we have to work it through-growth continues. No, I don't believe there is anyone with a black book or a big stick. We create our own conditions. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:19:02 -0400 From: Ricw1217@aol.com Subject: Re: A Case Of You - not for the squeamish deb wrote: "I sure hope this singer is not a lurking member of the JMDL! I'd hate to hurt anyone's feelings." no kidding deb! what HYPOCRISY! if this person had given that very same performance at one of the joni pod conventions, you'd all be raving about how astonishing it was...how life altering...how the tears streamed down your poddy faces... i didn't think it was all THAT horrible. now that i know what discerning critics you are i'm sure glad i never got up to sing!!!!! ric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:22:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: is it just me????, njc --- Smurfycopy@aol.com wrote: > Jinger writes: > > << In fact TODAY I'm f_cking 45 years old!!!!!!! > << mouth eyes wide stifling a SCREAM. >> > > Happy birthday, Jing! If I had known I would have > posted a birthday wish from > the Birthday Gnome (who's nothing compared to the BF > or the DBF but still > gets the job done!) > > XO, > > --Smurf > Is it Jin-gy's burfday? Well HAPPY 2 YA, ya young whippersnapper! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:23:58 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: is it just me????, njc (PC) > Well Sherrelle, OF COURSE this is how you would feel. > > I have lurked on this list long enough to remember when you said that you > didn't "AGREE" with homosexuality. > > You just don't get it. PERIOD. What???????? Is it just me or does this seem way out of left field? Victor, listening to the Braves play the White Sox Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:27:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: is it just me????, njc (PC) --- Sherelle Smith wrote: > (Sigh) > > I've been reading the pros and cons of this thread > and I must say that for > me, this is about death. This is about that sadness > which comes when a > person's life force departs his body. I'm sorry, I > have a bit of a hard time > when someone is actually glad another person is > dead. Human nature being > what it is will always ritualize death in some way; > there is no getting > around that. Whether it is in excess is in the eye > of the beholder. [...] That is because you are a very good person and that is a very good thing! I don't rejoice in the death of others either, even if they're people I didn't much like. I never cared much for him but, as a non-American, this wouldn't have the same impact on me during his presidency or now. Still, he had a wife and a family who must be sad at his passing. On the other hand, he lived to be 93, and not many people live that long. And he had Alzheimers for I-don't-know-how-long, so he is out of the pain that has to bring, because I do think that Alzheimers patients are aware of what's going on at least some of the time and it must be a terrible thing to know you're losing it. > Sherelle > (Who is sad over the passing of Ray Charles and so > sorry she did not get a > chance to see him while he was alive) > The loss of Ray Charles is much sadder to me for so many reasons. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:32:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: is it just me????, njc --- "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > I felt then as I do now: that the President may be a > "C" student but I > have to hope he's surrounded by good people. BTW, I > read 2 weeks ago > that it's likely that Sec. of State Powell won't be > back if Bush is > re-elected. Powell & Rice are the only people who > seem to think before > they answer. They give balanced, rational answers > for this > administration and I shudder to think was messes the > Administration will > lead us into without them. That's a good point. Getting good marks in school isn't everything. You can be book-smart, but a terrible leader. Think of all the brains you know that don't have any feelings. You want someone with a brain and a heart, but most of all, someone who works well with others and uses their talents where they work best. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #261 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)