From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #259 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, June 10 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 259 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Close Your Eyes [Zzutak@aol.com] Re: Close Your Eyes [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: new Joni DVD [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: troy njc [Garret ] re: Finally an actress to play Joni ["c Karma" ] Reagan njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Ronald Reagan Pageantry njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: is it just me???? - NJC ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Reagan / "immoral, evil, and totally un-Christian" - D. Tutu njc [S] Re: is it just me???? - NJC [Em ] At last an actress to play Joni - maybe: ["Timothy Spong" ] NJC, the Reagan spectacle ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: Reagan / "immoral, evil, and totally un-Christian" - D. Tutu njc [] Re: NJC, the Reagan spectacle [Lori Fye ] Peter Pan's sexuality ["robin mortlock" ] (NJC) Ray Charles died today [Lori Fye ] new Joni DVD ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Evaluating Contributions - njc [Lori Fye ] Re: Peter Pan's sexuality (NJC) [Lori Fye ] RE: Is it just me???? njc, PC [] Re: (NJC) Ray Charles died today [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: new Joni DVD [Randy Remote ] Re: (NJC) Ray Charles died today ["Joseph S.E. Palis" ] RE: (NJC) Ray Charles died today ["Azeem" ] A Case Of You - not for the squeamish [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] movies (long) with Eastwood, Clooney and Brad Pitt NJC ["Joseph S.E. Pali] RE: A Case Of You - not for the squeamish ["hell" ] Asbury Park preserved!, njc ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 03:48:32 EDT From: Zzutak@aol.com Subject: Close Your Eyes Hello friends, Does anyone have any idea of the date/venue on this recording: Joni Mitchell & James Taylor: Close Your Eyes, live in USA Thanks for any help! Pax, Sean ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 06:40:21 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Close Your Eyes **Joni Mitchell & James Taylor: Close Your Eyes, live in USA Hi Sean - it's not the USA, it's London. The JM Appearance Chronology (an excellent resource) lists the performance at the Paris Theatre; London, England itself as taking place the first week of December, 1970. Broadcast on BBC 1 Dec 20, 1970. This show has also been bootegged under a dozen or so other names. Most JMDLer's have the whole shootin' match including the extra non-broadcast stuff. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 06:42:14 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: new Joni DVD **I wonder if there will be any bonus stuff on the dvd that wasn't on the vhs (now out of print). My guess is that since this will come out in August they'll give you a free copy of this July Joni CD "Survival of the Fittest" or whatever the hell its called since it'll probably sell about 10 copies and they'll have a buttload of them on their hands. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:30:26 +0100 From: Garret Subject: RE: troy njc Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:21:23 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" *W*, who *got* the whole achilles/patroclus, david/jonathan, jesus/john thing when i was a kid, long before i understood what it was all about. i KNEW before i really knew -- which proves that i was born a shameless queen LOL!! Informative and hilarious, hehe. GARRET np- Annie Lennox, Why - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:10:22 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Finally an actress to play Joni Yep, Rachel Hurd-Wood would be a good choice to play Joni in her teens. I'd love to see her in a series of short films based on some of the scenes Joni described in her early adolescence like "In France They Kiss on Main Street'", "Song for Sharon", and "Cherokee Louise". Imagine "Harlem in Havana", as could be directed by David LaChappelle. (Who else could render a carnival show with drag queens who play Ellington?) An anthology like that could be a new twist on "Story of Three Loves." Come on, Dreamworks... CC "A celluloid rider comes to town, cinematic lovers sway." -- JM _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page  FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 10:24:16 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Reagan njc What is "all this talk about holiness now? . . . " I don't know, before George W. Bush came around, I always thought Reagan was our worst president. With Reganomics, didn't the rich get richer and the poor get poorer? With no disrespect for his death, I just do not have this sense of awe about him. Because so many seem to be idealizing him right now, I feel the need to look for what his legacy is. I always thought Mr. Reagan was very slow to respond to the AIDS crises and his policies resulted in many deaths that could have been prevented. When I questioned what all this reverence was about toward Ronald Reagan, a friend said that he allocated 629 billion toward the AIDS epidemic in his 8 years in office. . . I know I need to read, "And the Band Played On." But did not this "support" come in very late? I also thought he was responsible for creating and supporting the star wars initiative. Could we say he supported the military industrial complex? And, as I remember it, didn't homeless in top numbers result from the Ronald Reagan leadership? I did a search and found this on infoshop.org What the real truth is? . . . I'm looking. . .. Are these things true? (from inforshop.org) South Africa: Ronald Reagan supported the racist apartheid government of South Africa. Reagan accused the leading anti-apartheid organization, the African National Congress," of being a "terrorist" organization that was being funded by the Soviet Union. Despite a widespread anti-apartheid pro-divestment movement that was vocal in the U.S. during the 1980s, the Reagan regime refused to condemn the South African system of apartheid. The End of the Cold War: The biggest myth being spread this week about Reagan is that he "ended the Cold War." This is an interesting fantasy for right wingers who want to think they ended radical leftism, but it has been debunked by historians, researchers and the sheer amount of evidence that has emerged since the end of the Soviet Union. The argument that Reagan "ended the Cold War" relies on the myth that Reagan's efforts to increase the U.S. nuclear arsenal ended up bankrupting the Soviet government which couldn't keep up. Leaving aside the fallacy that an increase in U.S. military spending would "bankrupt" the Soviet Union in a period of less than five years, the important thing to understand is that evidence uncovered since the fall of the Soviet Union suggests that the Soviets gave up on the arms race in the 1960s. The U.S. had been exaggerating the "Soviet threat" for decades in order to justify increased military spending. The Pentagon and the military-industrial complex are a sophisticated form of corporate welfare that is disguised as "national security needs," but is actually an important way that the U.S. government keeps the American capitalist utopia operating. If there was no military spending, the U.S. economy would have collapsed long ago. In a sense, Reagan ended up screwing Americans by increasing the budget deficit to support military spending, not to mention the sheer robbery from people in the form of taxes. And Reagan is widely seen as having prolonged the Cold War and delaying the eventual end of the Soviet Union. Star Wars and military spending: Reagan is credited with the creation of the "Strategic Defense Initiative" more popularly known as "Star Wars." This unworkable scheme, designed to protect the United States from missile attack, still continues to waste billions of taxpayer dollars every year. Central America: A summary of the impact Ronald Reagan had on Central America is difficult, because his crimes in that region fills volumes. On the surface, Reagan's obsession with Central America seemed to revolve around his paranoia about the spread of anti-communism, but as Chomsky and other writers have explained, the Reagan administration policies in Central America aimed to terrorize the population into not supporting any form of anti-capitalist alternatives, such as the Sandinista regime in Nicaragua. Reagan initiated covert wars throughout Central America, especially in Nicaragua where the U.S. supported a proxy rebel army known as the Contras. U.S. support for the Contras ws cut off by the U.S. Congress, so administration officials organized an elaborate covert scheme where weapons were sold to Iran to raise money for the Contras. This was eventually uncovered and became known as the Iran-Contra Scandal. Later investigations by reporters including Gary Webb, found evidence suggesting that the Iran-Contra scheme was responsible for the creation of the crack cocaine epidemic in American urban neighborhoods. Iraq: Current Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, was Reagan's Special Envoy to the Middle East. Rumsfeld was the U.S. point man in providing military, weapons and intelligence to Saddam Hussein's regime, which was then fighting a bloody war with Iran. Rumsfeld's activities in Iraq have become famous due to a photograph circulated on the Internet that shows him shaking hands with Saddam Hussein. Iran: Thanks to the "October Surprise," the Reagan regime was negotiating with Iran for the release of American hostages before Reagan had even won the election. The hostages were released on the same day as Reagan's inauguration. Afghanistan: The Reagan administration supported and trained the Mujahideen, the opposition groups that fought the Soviet invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. Many people credit the Reagan administration intervention in Afghanistan with creating the conditions favorable to the rise of Osama bin Laden and the Taliban. "Among those trained is Ramsey Yousef, the demolitions expert who later prepares the device used for the 1983 World Trade Center bombing in New York."* Anti-worker: Ronald Reagan is feted for his role in breaking the PATCO air traffic controllers strike on August 5, 1981. Conservative idiots like George Will recently wrote that the breaking of this strike laid the groundwork for the prosperity of today (for the rich). Racism: Reagan's policies towards the racist apartheid regime of South Africa were atrocious, but he also engaged in frequent racist campaigns. His war on the poor, billed as a reform of welfare, relied on stereotypes of black women with lots of babies driving Cadillacs purchased with the help of welfare checks. His war on drug users ended up putting many people of color in prison, disrupting communities and thousands of families. Reagan's cut back on social services spending made living conditions worse for poor people, many of them people of color. Drug War: Reagan's policies in the "War on Drugs" emphasized imprisonment for drug offenders while cutting funding for addiction treatment. This resulted in a dramatic increase in the USA's prison population. (Wikipedia) The "War on Drugs" resulted in normalizing the sending of non-violent drug users to prison, which has resulted in the disruption of hundreds of thousands of families and most likely resulted in a long term increase in crime as people who had their lives ruined after being sent to prison resorted to crime to survive. The "War on Drugs" also brought us the sorry spectacle of Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" campaign, which emphasized keeping young people ignorant of the benefits and dangers of drug use. AIDS: How many people around the world have died of AIDS because Ronald Reagan refused to address the epidemic in its early years? Half a million? Millions? AIDS first made the news in 1981, but Reagan didn't mention it publicly until 1987. Reagan "prevented his surgeon general, C. Everett Koop, from speaking out about the epidemic" (Wikipedia) in deference to the religious right which saw the epidemic as a moral plague on gay sinners. Homelessness: Prior to 1980, homelessness existed in the United States, but at a level far less than the explosion in homelessness that happened during Reagan's regime. This increase in homelessness was caused by Reagan cuts in social services and veterans programs. Class War: Getting rid of welfare and government programs may be a good idea for many reasons, but you don't cut the social safety net out from under people if they don't have other ways to support their needs. Ronald Reagan is widely hated by Americans because they remember the violent class war he conducted against them. When he wasn't fighting workers, he cut social programs. His economic policies led to the recession of 1983 and stagnant wages for Americans for the next 20 years. Reagan is lauded for creating the conditions that led the the "Boom 80s" and the economic good times of the 1990s, but the people who benefited were the rich, not average working people. Unemployment soared. Reagan deregulated the savings and loan industry, which quickly led to its collapse, causing widespread job loss and a bailout of rich crooks paid for by working Americans. Family farms: Do you know when the first Farm Aid concert was held? That's right, on September 22, 1985, in Champaign, Illinois. American family farms were mostly driven out of existence during the 1980s, with Reagan regime policies that favored agribusiness. Rise of the conservative movement: One thing the media is getting right this week is giving Reagan credit for the rise of the American right wing. Reagan was instrumental in this, helping normalize many extremist right wing ideas, to the point were they are acceptable ideas today. The rise of the conservative movement prompted the Culture Wars and led to the rise of right wing extremist media such as Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. Philippines: Ronald Reagan supported the dictatorship of Ferdinand Marcos. Throughout the 1980s, the CIA and Special Forces units undertake a prolonged counter-insurgency campaign to quell leftist guerillas in the southern Philippines. The unsuccessful effort claims some 30,000 lives.* * On the Justice of Roosting Chickens, Ward Churchill. (Oakland: AK Press, 2003) me again: I am not in favor of giving money /resources to people who are capable, able-bodied. I am not a bleeding heart. I would say that I am even fiscally conservative. . . and I don't believe in overspending. I don't believe in running government differently than we run our own families. I have seen people take advantage of the welfare system and I find it to be negative. . . I think we should try to help others when we can. But I also believe people who are able should not be handed things. But over all, I don't think the Reagan policies were too good. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Getting married? Find great tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life Events. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 10:33:39 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Ronald Reagan Pageantry njc I have never been in favor of adorning "kings" and such. I believe each of us is entitled to a proper memorial. One does not matter more than another. This lavishness is not for me. If these embellishments are for political purposes, it makes me feel sorry for our society. I forgot who said this: "the people get the government they deserve." Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Looking to buy a house? Get informed with the Home Buying Guide from MSN House & Home. http://coldwellbanker.msn.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:37:24 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: is it just me???? - NJC Hi Lori, I have to agree with you on this one. For some of us, it's not about partisanship, but about honoring a fallen president. More than that, it's about sharing a widow's grief and acknowledging that this person, now deceased did matter. To me, it was also about being a part of history. As I was watching the procession on TV yesterday evening, I heard a loud noise above my apartment. I went to my patio door and looked up to see the fighter jets flying by. I live in the town next to Andrews Air Force Base and it must have been in the flight path. It was a very touching and humbling experience. And now...for my two cents...I didn't always agree with the agenda when Reagan was president but I respected him as a person. I saw a story of how President and Mrs. Reagan went to the home of a young boy who had written to him on a regular basis and had dinner with him and his family. They just showed up one evening while his mother was fixing dinner. The boy is now grown and decided not to keep in contact after the president's term in order to respect his privacy was over but wished he had. Attempts at partisanship aside, I think this was something very needed for our country right now. We've not been able to hold our heads up for a while now and it felt good to be able to do so. I don't think I am alone..... Sherelle Lori wrote: Em, this is interesting, the idea of all the hype around Reagan's funeral being engineered by the GOP. I lean toward thinking that's not the case, but I do think they're taking unfair advantage of the situation to compare themselves to Reagan -- even if the comparison is accurate in many ways. (And not good ways, imo.) They all want to be "heroes." As if ... _________________________________________________________________ Get fast, reliable Internet access with MSN 9 Dial-up  now 3 months FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 10:43:17 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Reagan / "immoral, evil, and totally un-Christian" - D. Tutu njc Marianne writes: << a friend said that he allocated 629 billion toward the AIDS epidemic in his 8 years in office. . . >> FALSE!!! Marianne, $629 billion has NEVER been allocated towards AIDS, even if you tally all contributions from all sources beginning at day one. To put that $629 billion number in perspective, that's the kind of figure you can expect from a few years of war in Iraq. And regarding Reagan and South Africa, check out what Bishop Desmond Tutu, right after he won the Nobel Peace Prize, had to say on Capitol Hill about Reagan and his policies towards apartheid: << http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/06/09/reagans_heart_of_darkness/ >> Here's just a sample: "In my view, the Reagan administration's support and collaboration with it is equally immoral, evil, and totally un-Christian. . . . You are either for or against apartheid and not by rhetoric. You are either in favor of evil or you are in favor of good. You are either on the side of the oppressed or on the side of the oppressor. You can't be neutral." - --Smurf "You make 'em, I amuse 'em." --Theodor Geisel (AKA Dr. Seuss) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:55:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: is it just me???? - NJC - --- Sherelle Smith wrote: > We've not been able to hold our heads up for a while now and it felt > good to > be able to do so. I don't think I am alone..... didn't work for me. My head's still pretty much hung in shame over the war. Over us running over that country like a lawn mower over a hill of ants. But yeah, you're definately not alone. And I could be wrong. respectfully, Em ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:03:20 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: At last an actress to play Joni - maybe: On Wed, 09 Jun 2004, "robin mortlock" wrote, on Subject: At last an actress to play Joni - maybe: Hey all Last night i saw "Peter Pan" and the girl that plays Wendy is a dead ringer for Joni as a flowering girl. Watch this space - maybe she will grow up to be a sappy english actress following the lead from the likes of Pasty Kensit or the grim Gwyneth Paltry (i know she's american) but you never know she may have talent - and maybe (tenterhooks bristling) she can sing a bit like our collective beloved..... Has anyone seen this film and noted the exciting similarity - do you feel the potential? Are film scripts falling into your minds? I am thinking of kidnapping her and locking her in a room with nothing but high literature and Joni records....oh and a lute and flute....... yours talent scoutingly Robin Question: I recognize "Gwyneth Paltry" as a humorously disparaging reference to Gwyneth Paltrow, and suppose that "Pasty Kensit" is a humorously disparaging reference to someone whose nickname is "Patsy," presumably derived from "Patricia," but what is this person's actual surname? "Kensit," or something somewhat similar? I am not particularly knowledgable about current movie actors of either sex. Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. P.S. If your reply is "NJC," please copy me directly. Thanks! _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:12:51 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: is it just me???? - NJC I understand what you are saying Em. I am not out of the woods either but it was a nice reprieve. Sherelle >From: Em >To: Sherelle Smith , lori@lrfye.lunarpages.com >CC: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: is it just me???? - NJC >Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:55:00 -0700 (PDT) > >--- Sherelle Smith wrote: > > We've not been able to hold our heads up for a while now and it felt > > good to > > be able to do so. I don't think I am alone..... > >didn't work for me. My head's still pretty much hung in shame over the >war. Over us running over that country like a lawn mower over a hill of >ants. >But yeah, you're definately not alone. And I could be wrong. >respectfully, >Em > >===== >.............. > >"I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me >turning. >I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me >burning." > >...rainbow _________________________________________________________________ Looking to buy a house? Get informed with the Home Buying Guide from MSN House & Home. http://coldwellbanker.msn.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:14:58 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: NJC, the Reagan spectacle No, Em, you're not full of crappola -- we're being force-fed crappola. A friend of mine whose son has worked for the Dem. Nat. Committee maintains that the Rep. Party has been planning this spectable for years, and that they want to have something named after Reagan in every county of the country. And Kate Bennett, my sympathies to you. I just went to www.santabarbara.com (just to see something pretty) and guess whose picture is on the homepage? Sheesh!!! You just can't escape it this week. Here's something to balance all the ridiculous, overblown and downright false accolades and tributes the media have been lavishing on Ronald Reagan this week. Enough of that, already. Let's have some truth! As my favorite bumpersticker says: "NO MORE BU--SH--!" Peace, Patti P.S. The "good riddance" part is a little harsh for my tastes, as I do have sympathy for any family in mourning, but there is too much truth in this article to not share it. - ----------------------------------------- Ronald Reagan, 1911-2004 Goodbye and Good Riddance By PHIL GASPER Ronald Reagan has finally died at age 93. Predictably, politicians from both major parties have issued gushing tributes to this venal and vicious man, who was happy to slash workers' wages, see families thrown onto the street, support sadistic death squads and bomb other countries, if this was in the interests of the American ruling class. Meanwhile, if recent history is any guide, the mainstream media will steer well clear of providing an accurate portrayal of Reagan, the man and the president. Last year, in a stunning act of cowardice, CBS canceled its much-publicized "docudrama" about Ron and Nancy, The Reagans, caving in to a campaign by the Republican National Committee, right-wing radio hosts, Fox News and conservative Internet sites. The movie was instead shown later to a much smaller audience on the Showtime cable network. Conservatives attacked the film for portraying Reagan as homophobic, and Nancy as a domineering wife and mother who pulled the strings behind the scenes while abusing her children. They were apparently even more incensed that James Brolin, husband of liberal icon Barbra Streisand, played the part of Reagan. While The Reagans was undoubtedly a monumental example of third-rate TV schlock, examples cited by conservatives of substantial inaccuracies didn't hold up. One complaint was that the movie showed Reagan ignoring the AIDS crisis because of its association with gay sex, and telling his wife, "They that live in sin shall die in sin." But in real life, Reagan refused to mention AIDS publicly for six years, under-funded federal programs dealing with the disease and, according to his authorized biography, said, "Maybe the Lord brought down this plague," because "illicit sex is against the Ten Commandments." C. Everett Koop, Reagan's surgeon general, later revealed, "because transmission of AIDS was understood primarily in the homosexual population and in those who abused intravenous drugs, the advisors to the president took the stand, they are only getting what they justly deserve." In the movie, Nancy slaps her 5-year-old daughter, Patti. In real life, Patti wrote, "I first remember my mother hitting me when I was eight. It escalated as I got older and became a weekly, sometimes daily, event." In the movie, Nancy insists, "Ketchup is a vegetable! It is not a meat, right? So it is a vegetable." In real life, Reagan directed the Department of Agriculture to classify ketchup as a vegetable in September 1981 in an attempt to slash $1.5 billion from the federal school lunch program. Conservatives also criticized the movie for what it did not include. "Does it show he had the longest and strongest recovery in postwar history?" asked Reagan's White House press secretary Marlin Fitzwater. But Reagan's economic policies were a disaster for working-class Americans. Reagan presided over the worst recession since the 1930s, and economic growth in the 1980s was lower than in the 1970s, despite the stimulus of military Keynesian policies, which created massive federal budget deficits and tripled the federal debt. By the end of the decade, real wages were down and the poverty rate had increased by 20 percent. The real problem with The Reagans was not that it was too critical of the Reagan presidency, but that it was largely uncritical. According to The New York Times, the movie "paints [Reagan] as an exceptionally gifted politician and a moral man who stuck to his beliefs, often against his advisers' urgings." Reagan was many things, but "gifted" was not one of them. "Poor dear," remarked British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, his closest international ally, "there's nothing between his ears." As for a "moral man," Reagan's morality included union busting--beginning with his dismissal of striking air traffic controllers in 1981--an unprecedented war on the poor, opposition to civil rights and support for apartheid South Africa. The "moral" Reagan trained and supported terrorists, including the Nicaraguan contras ("the moral equal of our Founding Fathers") who killed over 30,000 people, and Islamic radicals in Afghanistan who later formed the al-Qaeda network. Reagan was also a liar. In November 1986, he publicly denied that his administration had been illegally selling arms to Iran and using the proceeds to fund the contras. One week later he was forced to retract this statement, but denied that the sale was part of a deal to free U.S. hostages. The following year, Reagan admitted that there had been an arms-for-hostages deal, but denied he knew anything about it. In 1992, that too proved to be a lie when former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger was compelled to release notes from a January 1986 meeting revealing, "President decided to go with Israeli-Iranian offer to release our 5 hostages in return for sale of 4,000 TOWs [U.S. missiles] to Iran by Israel." The man whose administration spearheaded class warfare on behalf of the rich, dragged American politics to the right, and rebuilt US imperialism after the Vietnam debacle, is dead. Good riddance. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Phil Gasper is professor of philosophy at Notre Dame de Namur University in California. He is a member of the National Writers Union and a frequent contributor to Socialist Worker and the International Socialist Review. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups  now 3 months FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:05:07 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: Reagan / "immoral, evil, and totally un-Christian" - D. Tutu njc <> contributions of anything approaching that magnitude toward finding a cause and cure would've given AIDS, in my opinion, more 'validity' as a disease. it's still seen by far too many people as some sort of divine punishment meted out especially for gay men and drug addicts, and i think that school of thought can be DIRECTLY LINKED to Ronald Reagan and his tradition of indifference and greed. more than 20 MILLION people have died of AIDS since June 5, 1981 when the CDC first published information about the disease. the precedent Reagan set - funding military defense at the expense of funding positive change for people - is still evident today in the white house and what do we have to show for it? yuck. cindy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:54:06 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: NJC, the Reagan spectacle Patti wrote: > A friend of mine whose son has worked for the Dem. Nat. Committee maintains > that the Rep. Party has been planning this spectable for years, and that > they want to have something named after Reagan in every county of the > country. Even though I wrote yesterday that I lean toward the GOP not orchestrating this funeral circus (because I'm hopeful? I don't know), I do believe they're fully capable of it and that it's entirely possible. It's no surprise that the GOP wants something named after Reagan everywhere. There's been a squabble going on for years here in DC about changing all the signs, maps, flyers and whatever else is part of the Metro public transit system to reflect the entire "proper" name of the airport that most people around here simply refer to as "National" (DCA). Yes, the GOP wants the already stretched-thin Metro system to spends hundreds of thousands of dollars (the last figure I heard was $600,000) to change all those items so they'll say: "Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport." As a dear friend of mine used to say, "'Cause god knows THAT's important!" Sheesh. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 18:28:03 +0000 From: "robin mortlock" Subject: Peter Pan's sexuality COlin on Peter Pan film: John and I also saw this film-or rather half of it. It did seem >promosing and started well. We found the sexual overtones of the film >worrying considering the age of the characters. It left a rather >unpleasant feeling with us and we didn't finish watching the film. Ah come on - what are you afraid to see? I thought the film sexual too but that is the point of the story, no? Peter behaved like lots of men who enjoy their boyish freedom but dont want the responsibility of their actions, preferring to remain a boy. The 'growing up' and leaving Neverland is a step into puberty, the childish sexuality a kind of tentative step into that world. Did you have no-one in your childhood/puberty that you experimented with? The story offers a bridge for children into a world of hormones and ADULT sensations . Can you expand on this 'unpleasant feeling'. curiously, robin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:53:07 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: (NJC) Ray Charles died today Spider Web I dreamed about Ray Charles last night And he could see just fine Dreamed about Ray Charles last night And he could see just fine, you know I asked him for a lullaby He said, "Honey, I don't sing no more" No more, no more, no more Ray don't sing no more He said, "Since I got my eyesight back, my voice has just deserted me. No 'Georgia On My Mind' no more... I stay in bed with MTV." Then Ray took his glasses off And I could look inside his head Flashing like a thunderstorm I saw a shining spider web Spider web Spider web Spider web In Ray Charles' head I dreamed about Ray Charles last night He took me flying in the air Showed my own spider webs Said, "Honey, you had best take care. The world is made of spider webs The threads are stuck to me and you Be careful what you're wishing for 'Cause when you gain you just might lose" You just might lose your... Spider web Spider web Spider web What Ray Charles said When you're feelin' lonely When you're hidin' in your bed Don't forget your string of pearls Don't forget your spider web When I go to sleep tonight Don't let me dream of brother Ray No, no, no, don't... Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he sees Just like him best the other way Spider web Spider web Spider web What Ray Charles said... In Ray Charles head All I got's my spider web Keepin' me alive C'mon Ray - - Joan Osborne Rest in peace, Ray. We'll miss you. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:23:16 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: new Joni DVD This is good news! "Refuge of the Roads" is live performances and some video-looking footage. The rocking-est band she ever hand-picked (Refuge) which works better in some places than others. Now we'll hear all the details in those live versions of: 1. 01:04 Wild Things Run Fast (with a suitably wild, 80s-apocolypse guitar freak-out solo) (worth the price of admission) 2. 05:02 Raised on Robbery 3. 08:11 most of the song Refuge Of the Roads 4. 15:17 Sweet Bird (with a great, smeary guitar solo) (worth the price of admission) 5. 21:00 Banquet 6. 24:26 You're So Square (I Don't Care) 7. 30:13 Solid Love (reggae version) 8. 33:34 God Must Be A Boogie Man 9. 38:52 (Real Good,) For Free (some surpises here) (worth the price of admission) 10 43:04 You Dream Flat Tires 11 45:47 Chinese Cafe (worth the price of admission) 12 51:42 Unchained Melody 13 51:40 Underneath The Streetlights 14 53:52 Woodstock (voice & VG-8) david said >According to Rolling Stone Daily: "Refuge of the Roads," a JONI MITCHELL concert DVD from a 1983 show, will be released on August 24th> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:44:39 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Evaluating Contributions - njc > I'm on my solar powered tofu computer right now LOL! Can you come to JoniFest and bring it with you?? I know that Ashara, in particular, would be pleased. : D Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:59:41 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Peter Pan's sexuality (NJC) Robin wrote: > The story offers a bridge for children into a world of hormones and ADULT > sensations . Oh dear. I'm sure it was unintended, but I sense another icky NAMBLA discussion about to transpire. Why can't we allow children to be children as long as possible? Lori, who has NEVER liked Peter Pan, just because it's so fecking cutesy-potsy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:03:21 -0500 From: Subject: RE: Is it just me???? njc, PC Interesting points, all! A couple more: 1) Several former presidents have died during my lifetime, but after Kennedy: Nixon in 1994, as Lori pointed out; Harry Truman (remember him??) in December of 1972, I think, and LBJ, circa 1973. So there ARE some grounds for comparison. 2) Kate mentioned a NYT article about "Bush wanting to be Reagan." That may be, but if you're speaking of the NYT Magazine piece circa 1/26/03, Kate--I just happen to remember that date, for other reasons--I think it went beyond mere "wannabe-ism," and actually made the case that Bush is politically and ideologically much more cut from the Reagan mold than he is like his own father. I've also read and heard that argument advanced elsewhere; it seems to have garnered significant acceptance long before this week. Which brings me to the next point: 3) Are the Republicans hijacking the ceremonies and tributes for the political gain of George W. Bush? I don't doubt that there's some of that going on: politicians are politicians, after all. However, I also see politicos of various stripes unabashedly putting on the spin that most appeals to them on what Reagan stood for, and why he still matters: George W. Bush, for example, attempted to justify his own unreasonable behavior (IMHO) by saying that Reagan acted consistently and without deviation from a core set of principles (puh-LEASE!!). On the other side of the aisle, Democrats have emphasized Reagan's supposed fondness for bipartisan efforts, or his refusal to descend into "nasty politics." In short, it's appeared to me in the five days or so since Reagan's death that various factions have attempted to clothe the emperor in whatever fabrics best suit THEM. In all fairness, the conservatives are not alone here. As for conservatives "exploiting" a certain similarity between Bush II and Reagan: well, by my book, there's not much to "exploit." A genuine similarity is simply THERE. However, there's a possible flip side to the current rush to place George W. Bush firmly in that camp. For those of us who do not have particularly fond memories of the Reagan years, I hope that these comparisons will goad us to work even harder than we would have otherwise for the defeat in November of Reagan's self-styled, and actual, ideological heir. 4) Finally, as to giving Reagan undue importance: God knows I'm no fan of the man, but I think a legitimate case can be made that he had more of a lasting impact THAT IS STILL WIDELY REGARDED AS POSITIVE than either Nixon or Johnson. I'm not so certain that that's the case with Truman, but then, Truman is much more highly regarded now than he was even at the time of his death, and certainly, than he was immediately after he left office. Just my two cents, for what they're worth! Mary, lurking. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 18:10:26 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Ray Charles died today Now HERE's a guy who deserves all the attention that Bonzo is currently getting - a real national treasure. I don't have enough Ray Charles in my collection. That should change. That "aaah" feeling when he sings "Georgia" or "Come Rain or Come Shine" is incomparable. Bob NP: Joni, "Both Sides Now" (from Gene Shay broadcast) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:12:00 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: new Joni DVD Indeed, this is some of the hottest rockin' Joni you are likely to find. I believe it is pre VG-8, though. Ibanez & phase shifter? "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > This is good news! "Refuge of the Roads" is live performances and some > video-looking footage. The rocking-est band she ever hand-picked > (Refuge) which works better in some places than others. > > Now we'll hear all the details in those live versions of: > 1. 01:04 Wild Things Run Fast (with a suitably wild, 80s-apocolypse > guitar freak-out solo) (worth the price of admission) > 2. 05:02 Raised on Robbery > 3. 08:11 most of the song Refuge Of the Roads > 4. 15:17 Sweet Bird (with a great, smeary guitar > solo) (worth the price of admission) > 5. 21:00 Banquet > 6. 24:26 You're So Square (I Don't Care) > 7. 30:13 Solid Love (reggae version) > 8. 33:34 God Must Be A Boogie Man > 9. 38:52 (Real Good,) For Free (some surpises here) > (worth the price of admission) > 10 43:04 You Dream Flat Tires > 11 45:47 Chinese Cafe (worth the price of admission) > 12 51:42 Unchained Melody > 13 51:40 Underneath The Streetlights > 14 53:52 Woodstock (voice & VG-8) > > david said > >According to Rolling Stone Daily: > "Refuge of the Roads," a JONI > MITCHELL concert DVD from a 1983 show, will be released on August > 24th> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 18:21:47 -0400 From: "Joseph S.E. Palis" Subject: Re: (NJC) Ray Charles died today As were his duets with the equally incomparable Betty Carter. "Georgia on My Mind" will never be "owned" by any singer. Joseph in CH (who finds the city of Atlanta beautiful but ...) Quoting SCJoniGuy@aol.com: > Now HERE's a guy who deserves all the attention that Bonzo is > currently > getting - a real national treasure. > > I don't have enough Ray Charles in my collection. That should change. > That > "aaah" feeling when he sings "Georgia" or "Come Rain or Come Shine" > is > incomparable. > > Bob > > NP: Joni, "Both Sides Now" (from Gene Shay broadcast) > Joseph S.E. Palis Department of Geography University of North Carolina Saunders Hall, CB 3220 Chapel Hill, N.C. 27599-3220 palis@email.unc.edu joepalis@yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:25:55 -0500 From: Subject: RE: Is it just me???? njc, PC P.S. RE: former-presidents-who-died-during-my-lifetime-but after-Kennedy: and Eisenhower! How could I have forgotten Ike?? I even recall watching snippets of his funeral on TV as a child. To me, he is the one former president most likely to have garnered the attention in death now being granted to Reagan, although perhaps not so much for what he did as president, but for what he did as Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces during World War II. Also, like Reagan, Eisenhower appeared to enjoy a fair amount of purely popular appeal, beyond politics. However, in all fairness, Eisenhower never presided over a sea-change of domestic and international politics as far-reaching or pervasive as the Reagan Revolution: like it, or loathe it. The Cold War also heated up (if that's not an oxymoron) under Eisenhower, while Reagan is widely credited, rightly or not, with having a huge impact in ending it. Mary. P.S. I apologize if you're all getting this twice. I'm pretty sure my mouse erased the first one (I had nothing to do with that, of course )). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 23:33:33 +0100 From: "Azeem" Subject: RE: (NJC) Ray Charles died today Bob wrote: << I don't have enough Ray Charles in my collection. That should change. That "aaah" feeling when he sings "Georgia" or "Come Rain or Come Shine" is incomparable. >> How about his exquisite version of Don't Let The Sun Catch You Crying? So beautiful. Brother Ray, rest in peace. Azeem in London NP: Jeff Buckley - Dream Brother - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.698 / Virus Database: 455 - Release Date: 02/06/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 18:37:32 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: A Case Of You - not for the squeamish Scroll to the bottom and click - if you dare, mwah hah hah.... http://www.redheadedpoet.com/music.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 18:47:41 -0400 From: "Joseph S.E. Palis" Subject: movies (long) with Eastwood, Clooney and Brad Pitt NJC Hi all, Films is also my favorite topic aside from music in general and you- know-who in particular. That said, let me just get this off my chest: I didn't like 'Mystic River' at all. The story and the whole premise of not righting a wrong disturbed me. Of course, this is a highly subjective perspective. I am not a fan of Clint Eastwood's films although I like him alright. I thought his very slow-paced "Bridges of Madison County" improved on the book (which is not much as a book in the first place imo) and he was able to make Streep deliver a remarkable performance -- very mannered yes, but heartbreakingly honest just the same. There are a lot of other films of his I just don't warm up to even if I no longer focused on film aesthetics (being in itself a contested terrain). 'Mystic River' seems to provoke something in us and I credit Eastwood's refusal to preach. Sean Penn, who I think is very good in '21 Grams' overacted in 'Mystic River' ("is that my daughter over there?"). Which is a shame because he was really close to being phenomenal in '21 Grams' delivering a non-bravura performance. Tim Robbins I like although he looked a bit constipated 80% of the time. Best of all is Marcia Gay Harden who need not scream to let you know she is in pain, who can bottle a lightning, and who is deserving of the award more than that actress who played Ruby in a movie that is supposed to be set in North Carolina. I like George Clooney though and I agree with someone who said he seems to show his best when doing comic films ('Intolerable Cruelty' is underrated and deserved to be seen for its deft and comic timing). And yes, wasn't he amazing in 'O Brother Where Art Thou?' Romantic comedy this side of Nora Ephron is not really this thing, too, I think. 'One Fine Day' is tolerable but not approaching 'When Harry Met Sally...' or even 'Forget Paris'. He is way too slick in 'Ocean's Eleven' but I think Soderbergh is auteur material so I forgive anything he does (even 'Solaris'). 'Confessions of a Dangerous Mind' is also a must-see for people to see what Clooney can do. His 1-minute appearance in 'The Thin Red Line' is more than worth it, but then that film is the closest to being perfect for me, so I am biased. Finally, Brad Pitt. This guy will not comb his hair until he wins an Oscar. Since he has proven his clout on box-office and pop iconography, he probably craves R-E-S-P-E-C-T which will not be long. He was good in 'Se7en' and although a bit caricaturish in 'The Mexican', he proved he can be a goofball without being self-conscious. He should try to avoid doing films like 'Devil's Own' or 'Meet Joe Black' or that annoying schtick he did in '12 Monkeys'. But who am I to tell this guy to choose a project? I just think he can follow the Sinatra route of doing offbeat roles with memorable lines and impactful presence rather than something that capitalizes on his proven ability to "open" a picture. I like him in Guy Ritchie's 'Snatch' and in 'True Romance' and in 'Thelma & Louise'. Initially I thought he can pull off Achilles in 'Troy' but he lacked charisma in that film (the way that child actor in 'Harry Potter' but Potterheards, don't slay me, I am just telling you how I see them). And lastly, I too liked 'Peter Pan'. I thought it was more for adults than kids -- that last one with Ludivine Sagnier as Tinkerbelle. Too bad, it got clobbered during its Christmas release. Too many 'Cold Mountain' and 'Return of the King' that time. Joseph in very humid Chapel Hill (who wants to know if anyone lives in Frankfurt as he will be there for 8 days this late June for a symposium) Joseph S.E. Palis Department of Geography University of North Carolina Saunders Hall, CB 3220 Chapel Hill, N.C. 27599-3220 palis@email.unc.edu joepalis@yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:33:51 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: RE: A Case Of You - not for the squeamish Bob wrote: > Scroll to the bottom and click - if you dare, mwah hah hah.... > > http://www.redheadedpoet.com/music.html > Bloody hell! That was cruel and unusual punishment, Bob, which quite frankly, I don't think I deserved. Almost ruined my day - I'm going to have to go listen to the real thing now, to banish that sound from my head! Hell _________________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 19:39:39 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Asbury Park preserved!, njc Rose, here's proof that Asbury Park lives on. Tonight on PBS I saw an archivist talking about the Betman Archive, a private collection of negatives and prints that was decaying away in NYC. He talked about film turning into vinegar and showed a cracked negative from a coronation in the UK during the 30s. He said the entire collection was decaying at an alarming pace at its old location. Then they showed Iron Mountain, (a former limestone mine under western Pennsylvania) and talked about storing the most vulnerable assets in deep freeze. The guide said that each image is essentially frozen in time, that estimates say they will now last thousands of years. The interviewer found images of his father, a jounalist among the less fragile items, stored at 45 degrees (F). They showed a file drawer containing 2,000 negatives. There must have been 15 drawers in each column, in cabinet after cabinet, in a "room" 600 feet long. The Betman archive is preserved because it is now owned by Corbis, a dream child of some businessman from Seattle named Gates. Yeah, Gates. Anyway, what does this have to do with Asbury Park? One of the huge collections of photographs was by an east coast rock photograher, Lynn Goldsmith. The interviewer pulled out tons of photos of Bruce Springsteen in the early days, before he had his teeth fixed, before he found Max, and before he had a contract with Columbia Records. He was wearing an Elvis-like pompadour in shot after shot after shot after shot. Asbury Park's past is safe where it can't be harmed and will not fade: in your heart and underneath Iron Mountain, in western Pennsylvannia. Tonight I raise a toast to Bill Gates and to all of the photograpers who have contributed to our visual legacy. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu Covington, KY, US ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #259 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)