From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #236 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, May 22 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 236 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- from Lands Downunder (NJC) [Gerald McNamara ] Saturday Night Skit Fantasy SJC [BRIANASYMES@aol.com] Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC [colin ] Re: a furry joni...(njc) [colin ] Arbutus Trivia & a note to Kate if your still listening there. [BRIANASYM] NJC Re: Joni at the movies fantasy NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC ["Kate Cox" ] Harry's House and HOSL [Em ] Re: do the HOSL! [Jerry Notaro ] Joni dream-facelift ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Joni speaking [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: The Man from U.N.C.L.E NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: The Man from U.N.C.L.E NJC-now Viggo Mortensen ["Sherelle Smith" ] Donna, three men njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] like a ruby in a black man's ear [Emily Tedrowe ] Re: jonifest NJC [Lori Fye ] Re: jonifest NJC ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: Joni's dog [Deb Messling ] Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear [Deb Messling ] Re: do the HOSL! [Lori Fye ] Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC [Lori Fye ] Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear [Emily Tedrowe ] Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear [Emily Tedrowe ] Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Fw: "TV" crushes njc ["Ron" ] Re: a furry joni...(njc) ["Ron" ] Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear [Gary Zack ] Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC ["Ron" ] Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Both Sides Now & "Love, Actually" [Harry83house@aol.com] Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear [Smurfycopy@aol.com] NJC Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: BSN, International Smash ["hell" ] Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: BSN, International Smash - now Eva and njc [AzeemAK@aol.com] Smurfs racism (not OUR Smurf) NJC [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Re: "TV" crushes njc [vince ] Today's Library Links: May 22 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:21:58 +1000 (EST) From: Gerald McNamara Subject: from Lands Downunder (NJC) Don in Sydney said: >So this is a call for all Australian (and kiwis) on this list to show if you >are interested in getting together and create our own downunder JoniFest. It >can work people, what have we got to loose by trying. Then we can send stuff >back through the list for others to see what we can do. > I wonder how many Aussies and Kiwis we have on this list? I suspect there may be some quiet ones. Although I've been here since 1996, I've very rarely posted, just listened in a lot. And I've only ever met 3 JMDLers in all these years : Ashara (yes I've had The Hug !), Meri Jones (do any of you old-timers remember him ?), and Vanessa - are you still here Vanessa ?? At least we all get to hear from Ash in Tassie, Hell in NZ, and John the Wombat in the Blue Mountains, so there are *some* correspondents downunder. Though I have no desire to sing Joni songs myself, it'd be nice to meet some of the 'local' listers - as long as we can agree to limit the discussion of US politics, and the rendition of songs from DED ! -Gerald in Melbourne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 03:54:39 EDT From: BRIANASYMES@aol.com Subject: Saturday Night Skit Fantasy SJC First visualize the new scary movie called "The Village" A Farm House with a Dysfunctional Family they are pretending not to be scarred of a terror out in the woods so they are playing an Outkast song real loud. When Double Basses start playing in the back ground. Dubya and ah his wife kick down the door. He says in an illierate texan accent "Good Heavens ah First Lady look at all the Junk Food for the Juveniles uh, lets save these uh children". The First Sweetie then replies "Remember no child should be left ah behind !" The couple snatch up all the children and run out the door. On the back up Dubya dark jacket it says BURNING BUSH HIGH SCHOOL below it the school motto is smote first lest ye be smoted uh first Yo bros and babes a blue ribbon to CUL@ deeperwants for the deeper thoughts about Butterfly notes and Lilac Sprays. As one of the few people here to see Chuck play his 12 strings and use his romantic ballads (The Dutchman brought out the tears) to woe the ladies waiting behind red wine bottles in dark cafes. I think the notes had JT or GN on them. Chuck never toured nationally with Joni. I always thought The Last time I saw Richard was about Chuck but another Literate JMDL poster said there was a Richard who played in a local Detroit Band that played at the Chess Mate on Livernois and Six. Indeed after Midnight Blues Bands would play until very late even though I was under age I was allow to hang out I was so skinny that I disapeared in the corner "drinking" Cokeand rum all night. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:01:48 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC You couldn't want to meet a more , loving, gentle, giving, tolerant, humble, peaceful man than the one I have shared my life with for 23 years. He dislikes Joni. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:16:02 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: a furry joni...(njc) Ken wrote: > I've got a male Shitsu Lapso who's prominent color is black. do you mean a Shih Tzu / Lhasa Apso cross? - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 04:59:57 EDT From: BRIANASYMES@aol.com Subject: Arbutus Trivia & a note to Kate if your still listening there. Known here in Oregon as "Pacific Madrone" Arbutus Menziesii Belongs to the Heath family. Its natural range is from Southern Coastal California to Joni's Hideaway in British Columbia. It indeed has evergreen leaves that rustles in the summer wind. The Bark peels as the tree matures like the receding hair line of Joni's vain darling. The wood is a dark amber color hard enough to be used as flooring here in crazy hippie houses in Laurel Canyon. On the Cover photo of FTR this tree is shown to Joni's right side, it seems to be growing out of a cliff face that descends I think 20-30 feet down to the Bay. The clump of trees to her left are Red Alder Alnus Rubra a short lived tree harvested mostly for its pulp but I have seen it used in Kitchen Cabinets and Chairs pretending to be Birch . The Evergreen trees across the Bay are Sitka Spruce old growth trees 12' in diameter were used in Guitars and Dulcimers the wood has that cigar box smell or Alaskan Yellow Cedar. this tree has a weeping habit looking very oriental. I recently made some garden trellises with this wood, it has pale moon color and smells like fresh cannabis when cut. I never fell for TV babes Ingrid Bergman was my Venus and later when I saw her Daughter in "Blue Velvet" I fell again. I named my first daughter Isabel after her. Kate B I wish I could pack my suspenders catch the next plane to see your sunshine singing about sailors on your Taylor Brian Amor Vinci omnis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:22:23 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Joni at the movies fantasy NJC **LOL... I am flattered to be ariel but the band is in trouble if I am playing lead! As long as you put on that mermaid suit, nobody will notice. :~) Bob NP: Cream, "Tales Of Brave Ulysses" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:10:13 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC Thanks for everyone's thoughts on this! David wrote:"Sounds like you've been hanging around with the wrong men. I've been a Joni Mitchell fan for over 30 years myself." I totally didn't mean to sound anti-man, or to sound like I assumed no men liked Joni. That would be a silly thing to say on this list, especially for someone whose Dad got her into Joni! Buck wrote:"Joni was a test of sorts for me when I asked the question "how deep should I let this go?" in my relationships. To be brief: I'd play Blue or FTR for my beloved...sometimes as background, other times as a "you have to listen to this" kinda thing. If they had never heard Joni and were interested, there were possibilities. If they were Joni-istas, it was almost a done deal. Not THE acid test, by any means, but I can truthfully say I was never deeply involved with any woman who didn't love or, at the very least, appreciate, Ms. Mitchell. And I was burned by a couple of Joni-haters. So...all y'all beware." Sounds like a pretty good acid test to me! it's not that I mind it when people don't LIKE Joni, it's just when people don't respect her for her talent and what she has achieved. Lori:"Although I've done so in the past, now I can't imagine having a serious relationship with someone who didn't at least appreciate Joni to some extent, and I certainly wouldn't stay with someone who got pissed off about the music I enjoy, regardless of what it might be...You didn't ask for this advice, Kate, but I say: dump him. Life is too short to be with someone who is controlling and/or jealous." Catherine:"Oh, my Lord, Kate - dump him now! I know I'm evil, but this guy really needs to grow up. Don't let yourself get sucked into that "me-me-me" thing from him - there's too much you at stake!" I totally totally see your point guys and thank you for caring! But there are a lot worse guys in the world, I painted him a bit unfairly in that post. He did miss the point that women have had less success because they have been oppressed in many ways since time immemorial. But after a few tries, he did manage to catch it! I just don't think he had looked at it from a historical perspective. He is a product of his time and the society he lives in, the good thing is that he always listens to me when I point out that his opinion could be biased by the cultural group he belongs to. Life is for learning and he has a lot of it to do... in a lot of ways he is the guy in 'Woman of heart and mind'... but he is a lot more besides. And when I think about the kind of guys I could be with, I realise how lucky I am!:-) Love Kate - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 05:33:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Harry's House and HOSL Was listening to this some more last evening. Of course I've not really taken it in fully. Just peeled away the first layer perhaps. Harry's House is so attractive musically, and then you realize what the subject matter is..which of course I was pre-sensitized to by you all's recent discussion. Its like looking at some beautiful colorful liquid and then realizing its a very poisonous or even radioactive chemical. And again, I've not listened completely "in depth" but it seems the song "HOSL" is related to the theme too. Its like "Ladies of the Canyon" (the song) gone way WRONG. Maybe the woman gets the Steely Dan guys to visit and do her "Dirty Work". hehehehhhh... Anyway, these are just impressions for now... Em ps but I find it disturbing how attractive HH is to listen to, but how rotten in its lyrical essence..like the subject of the song itself I guess.."shiny" on the outside, but with this tremendous manipulation and life killing other sad aspect.. love the piano on that cut.. ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:38:41 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: do the HOSL! > I likes it! I can CLEARLY see it as the gradient between CAS and > Hejira. Clearly! > Need to listen some more. > Ordered FTR today btw. Now you're talking! It won't take but ONE listen to fall in love with FTR. I guarantee that. Jerry np: Babs - Calling You ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:45:54 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Joni dream-facelift I had a Joni dream last night: I was setting up for a gig with my band in Pasadena (??? actually the real upcoming gig is near Paris). All of a sudden she shows up and I discover she's also a performer that night. So I go to her and say: "look, we're just a bunch of amateurs, you don't want to listen to us for 3 hours, I'm afraid you might get bored and leave without performing. Will you take our place?". She agrees. (Needless to say, we were not going to play after Joni!) I remember at first I was looking at her from the back side, and she looked like she does today. But when I went to speak with her and saw her from the front, her face was actually the cover of Clouds, with big blue eyes and no wrinkles. I suppose one always sees loved ones as they were when we first met them. So being loved is the best facelift. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:52:50 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni speaking Garret wrote: Joni is quite the story teller. There are some video's that have been tree-d on the list thanks to the devotion of Ashara. I'm sure someone could copy them and get them out to you, I am very happy to dub any and all the videos I have available so far for anyone that is interested. Please contact me off list for the list of what is available. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:10:06 -0400 From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: The Man from U.N.C.L.E NJC << Yes, I agree Amanda Donohoe is very cool - she was also in LA Law for a while. She had an "interesting" scene with Michelle Greene (who played Abby) from memory - now, I wonder why I'd remember that ;o)! >> Hmmm, y'know what, Hell, I do have a vague memory of that, now you mention it ;-) Yep, Amanda D as CJ Lambe, the elegant bisexual English maverick, and *that* tender assignation with Abigail Perkins. But that's *quite* enough about Sapphic smooching, I'm sure. Um, mind you, there was Amanda and Sammi Davis in Ken Russell's florid version of The Rainbow... Enough! Azeem in London NP: a man with a very loud voice singing "When I'm Painting Windows" - Why? Because I'm sending this from work, and we're right opposite RADA! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:41:34 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: The Man from U.N.C.L.E NJC-now Viggo Mortensen Ashara, feel better knowing that I am a fellow Viggo Mortensen fan!!!! I can't tell you how many times I have watched "Lord of the Rings-the Fellowship of the Ring" on TV! To me, the movie doesn't begin until his scenes start! (Ha! Ha!) I cracked my daughter up once because I told her that when one of my favorite parts of the movie comes on; the part where Frodo asks Stryder (Viggo) if he could destroy the ring and he says he would have followed Frodo "into the very fires of Mordor" then prepares to fight the bad guys by drawing his sword. I love the part where he draws his sword and places it in front of his face before beginning to fight. I told my daughter that I am usually crocheting while watching the movie so I have to mimmick him by taking my crochet needle and doing the same thing at the same time he does!!! My daughter thinks it's so silly but funny!!!! Shows you what a fanatic I am over Viggo!!!!My husband Rob just shakes his head! I know this doesn't come close to your Viggo shrine but that's okay!!!! I am happy he is all yours!!!! I just look forward to seeing the last movie, "The Return of the King" again when it comes out on Video/DVD! p.s. my mother was gaga over the show, "The Man From U.N.C.L.E and it rubbed off on us. Love, Sherelle Ashara wrote: OH MY GOD, you guys!!! Did you bring back memories!! I must admit though, even though I had a HUGE crush on David McCallum, I didn't even come close to the worship Maggie and Patti had. So......I will keep my Viggo Mortensen shrine, thank you very much. And know that *I* called HIM first!! He's MINE, ALL MINE!!!!!!! :-D Hugs, Ashara _________________________________________________________________ Best Restaurant Giveaway Ever! Vote for your favorites for a chance to win $1 million! http://local.msn.com/special/giveaway.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:05:14 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Joni's dog If this has been discussed in years past, please forgive me, but does anyone know if Joni really had a dog when she wrote: ".....Well I'm learning It's peaceful With a good dog and some trees....." What kind of dogs does she like? I can picture her with a big furry loveable Newfoundland..... Patti, owner of two crazy but loveable Labrador Retrievers (Maggie and Luke) _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:39:12 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Donna, three men njc >Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:13:46 -0500 >From: "Donna Binkley" >Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC >>Does anyone else have >>this problem?! Love Kate >Yes Kate, i've lived together with 3 men over the last 25 or so years >and they all hated Joni. In fact one seemed to hate any kind of music i >loved. Wow Donna, How do you do it living with 3 men?. . . an interesting arrangement, I bet . . . I mean, I heard about you jumping into the pond at the fest, etc. . . but I had no idea about this! Marianne ; - ) _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:41:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Emily Tedrowe Subject: like a ruby in a black man's ear hi joni list, so i'm listening to "clouds" this morning. i love "that song about the midway" but i realize that it almost always prompts me to consider how i feel about the line "you stood out like a ruby in a black man's ear." has this been discussed? i can't remember. and i can't definitively say that i am troubled by this simile, but i guess at times it makes me wonder what kinds of meaning are evoked by the elements in joni's comparison here. sometimes it makes me wince, the assumptions that can be drawn when the speaker aligns the (tragic?) hero of the song (the leonard cohen figure, whoever it is) with the "ruby" and the rest of the midway (the crowds? drab scenery? us?) with a "black" man. i'm not saying there are *racist* assumptions there--that's a loaded term, of course, and i don't believe that joni is coming to this simile with that perspective at all, quite the opposite, in my opinion. but why then is it a "black man" created to be synonymous with the background, the "everything else," the undistinguished of the midway? but then i think, well--the image of a black man wearing a ruby earring certainly fits in the carnival/costumed atmosphere of the song, and in its fairgrounds setting. and also, that image (wealthy, decorated, bejeweled, proud) has a number of "positive" connotations. it's a singular, memorable visual. but the speaker doesn't say "you stood out like a black man wearing a ruby earring." in the line, the ruby is what "stands out" (then again, maybe "standing out" isn't meant to be entirely without its own set of problems). maybe the narrator (joni, whoever) is giving us a rendering of a triple set of sightings...the singer character, a black man wearing a ruby earring, then the ruby earring itself. but it still gives me pause. these are some first thoughts. anyone else? at the very least, of course, i admire the way this line has always made me think, think again, and continue to examine and investigate its resonance within this favorite song. best, emily (in chicago) Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:51:12 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: jonifest NJC Em asked: > so, is the closest airport one of the NYC ones? Closest airport is Albany, Em. > Anyone flying into there and renting a car to drive up to Jonifest?? There is a bus from Albany to Big Indian. From there, one of us will pick you up. Check out Jonifest FAQs here: http://www.jmdl.com/jonifest/register/qa.cfm Lori, beginning to count down the days to Fest! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:08:07 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: jonifest NJC Hi Em, I would be interested in sharing a car. I'll be coming into Albany from Houston on Thursday afternoon, 8/26 so let me know. db >>> Lori Fye 5/21/2004 9:51:12 AM >>> Em asked: > so, is the closest airport one of the NYC ones? Closest airport is Albany, Em. > Anyone flying into there and renting a car to drive up to Jonifest?? There is a bus from Albany to Big Indian. From there, one of us will pick you up. Check out Jonifest FAQs here: http://www.jmdl.com/jonifest/register/qa.cfm Lori, beginning to count down the days to Fest! This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:22:50 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Joni's dog I don't know what kind of dog she had in the FTR period, but today, she has a Jack Russell Terrier. It might be stretching it to call a Jack Russell a "good dog." They are little handfuls!!! At 02:05 PM 5/21/2004 +0000, you wrote: >If this has been discussed in years past, please forgive me, but does >anyone know if Joni really had a dog when she wrote: > >".....Well I'm learning >It's peaceful >With a good dog and some trees....." > >What kind of dogs does she like? I can picture her with a big furry >loveable Newfoundland..... - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:25:44 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear As for the image itself, Joni "stole that from Willie the Shake:" It seems she hangs upon the cheek of night / As a rich jewel in an Ethiop's ear. (Romeo and Juliet) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:19:12 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: do the HOSL! Jamie, I love your analysis and description of DJRD! (And I love that you're posting a lot again too!) Em, I so thrilled that you like HOSL! And your subject line cracked me up ... although of course the refrain from "Do the Hustle" has been stuck in my head since this morning, dammit. : ) > My brain just won't "absorb" DJRD. As George Carlin says, "it goes > straight to my colon"! > Lori!!!!! I'm so sorry! maybe with time.... Hey Em, *no apologies* necessary! As Bob said, we don't all have to like the same things. Wait 'til you listen to Dog Eat Dog and then get into THAT discussion! Besides, you have to remember that Hejira was my first Joni album. DJRD was a natural for me, especially given these two facts: a) At the time DJRD was released, I was living on the borders of North Dakota, Montana, and Saskatchewan -- smack in the midst of Paprika Plains (Buck was there with me), and b) I was heavily into reading Carlos Castaneda's books about the Yaqui sorcerer Don Juan Mateus, and "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" felt way synchronous with my life at that point. If DJRD never grows on you, that's okay. Otoh, some folks have rediscovered it 25 years after first hearing it. I believe things come to you as you need them. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:30:12 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear Emily writes: << sometimes it makes me wince, the assumptions that can be drawn when the speaker aligns the (tragic?) hero of the song (the leonard cohen figure, whoever it is) with the "ruby" and the rest of the midway (the crowds? drab scenery? us?) with a "black" man. >> Hmm. I don't get all caught up in examining my similes and metaphors that deeply, Emily. Frankly, that'd make me more nervous than a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. But may I gently suggest that I think you're bringing your own post-Dianne Arbus assumptions to the word "midway?" What you may think of as drab would have been something very different to a child raised on the Canadian plains in the '50s. Visually, the midway would have been one of the most electric, exotic and exciting things to happen to many a far-flung Canadian town in any given year. So for someone to actually stand out against such color and excitement would be something . . . unless I'm wrong, of course, in which case just forget everything I said. But still, that Joni can write, eh? - --Smurf, more concerned with the phrase, "Well, that's the pot calling the kettle black." What's up with that?! NPIMH: "Harlem in Havana," which more clearly evokes the midway as I see it ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:31:21 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC Colin wrote: > You couldn't want to meet a more , loving, gentle, giving, tolerant, > humble, peaceful man than the one I have shared my life with for 23 years. > He dislikes Joni. Ahh, but Colin ... there is a big differences between "dislike" and "hate". At least John doesn't get angry that you like Joni. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:58:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Emily Tedrowe Subject: Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear hi deb! of course! in fact i seem to remember reading this once on this list...and then promptly forgot that's the origin of this line i'm thinking about. thanks for quoting it... - -- emily, still sorting out how i feel about the line... Deb Messling wrote: As for the image itself, Joni "stole that from Willie the Shake:" Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:14:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Emily Tedrowe Subject: Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear hi bob! i do admit i "get all caught up in examining my similes and metaphors that deeply"--occupational hazard. and you are right that i'm picturing the midway in a dreary, run-down, sideshow kind of way. diane arbus is a perfect way to describe it. maybe thinking of the scene in a bustling, cheerful, colorful mode would add to my growing appreciation for this line's power... but i think what i'm wondering about is the use of "a black man" solely as the stand-in for what is there to be set off against. a vehicle to represent "background," "other," etc. yes, i'm getting political about this line and NO, i have no idea why! like i said, i really love the song and am just wondering about some of its implications--not about joni's intention. i have no doubt about that. (nor do i think it would be knowable, in any case.) maybe i'm the only one who hears these issues in that line. if so, i'd be surprised but not bothered. now if only i could figure out why there is this random blue line running to the left of my screen here and how i can get rid of it!! best, emily Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:46:29 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear <> hi emily! maybe it's simplistic, but i'd always just thought of it as a color contrast (without all of the political ramifications of the word "color"). just the startling and perhaps unexpected (you were less likely to see earrings on men, then, yes?) brilliance of the red against dark skin... though now that i think about it, it seems more probable that a ruby would stand out more vibrantly against paler skin tones and a diamond, perhaps, against darker..... cindy, willing to test this theory out, for those of you interested in sending me rubies. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 22:38:05 +0200 From: "Ron" Subject: njc - and first concerts? hi >>>>lori wrote > The best concert I ever attended that had lots of smoke in the air -- where it first concerts..... the local band during my school days was a local band called alcatraz (not to be confused with the us band called alcatrazz) - they were just plain awful. the first "international" act i saw live was oh damn whats his name again, the "spanish train" guy - chris de burgh. hmm - also awfull :-) the first decent show i saw was tina turner in '81 - prior to her big "come back". i slept right through the entire openiong act :-) a combination of no sleep the night before (it was during first phase military training...) lots of beer, and some of that good old south african green stuff. oh well, tina kept me awake through her set with no problems!!! as far as thick "atmospheres" go - definitely the best was a womad show with joan armatrading & afro celt sound connection (after each other - not at the same time!!!!). after AFCSC 's nearly 4 hr long show i was very definitely vrot from the atmosphere. ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 22:43:13 +0200 From: "Ron" Subject: Fw: "TV" crushes njc hi mmmmm, i think i have some strange "crushes" i cant think of any early ones, but i have to admit that currently i make a point of watching "fraser" in order to see peri gilpin :-) & i make an effort to see any movie with holly hunter (other than the piano!!!!!) ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 22:46:02 +0200 From: "Ron" Subject: Re: a furry joni...(njc) hi >>>>victor wrote > Does anyone have any pets named Joni or who are named after any other > musicians? i used to have a cat called "emmy" nameed after emmylou harris - cause her meowing reminded me of emmylou's voice :-) the cat also had a habit of rolling in the red dirt in the garden of the townhouse i was staying in at the time - which did wonders for my furniture!!!!!! ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:51:15 -0400 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear I agree Cindy, I thought color contrast first also, and find the line to be rather exotic, a shining red ruby against a dark complexion, though yeah, maybe a diamond would have shone more! Joni may well have really seen a black man with a ruby and it struck her, and stayed with her. When I see this line, I'm always taken back to "For Free" where on some of the early versions she sings "I got a black limousine, and two white men," which was another contrast, that I believe she did realize sounded not quite right, because she later changed it to "two gentlemen." Somewhere in storage I have a little velvet box that was made by, and given to me by, an old friend. On the black velvet lid is a black man's face, with a very tiny ruby in one of his ears. When I think of "That Song About The Midway" I always think about that box too. Best regards, Gary P.S. Will rhinestones do?? ;-) Cynthia Vickery wrote: ><man" solely as the stand-in for what is there to be set off >against.>> > >hi emily! >maybe it's simplistic, but i'd always just thought of it as a >color contrast (without all of the political ramifications of the >word "color"). just the startling and perhaps unexpected (you >were less likely to see earrings on men, then, yes?) brilliance >of the red against dark skin... though now that i think about it, >it seems more probable that a ruby would stand out more vibrantly >against paler skin tones and a diamond, perhaps, against >darker..... > >cindy, willing to test this theory out, for those of you >interested in sending me rubies. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:57:55 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC Lori Fye wrote: >Colin wrote: > > > >> >> > At >least John doesn't get angry that you like Joni. > no he doesn't. only when i play her...... > >Lori > > > - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 23:00:46 +0200 From: "Ron" Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC hi >>>donna wrote > I couldn't agree more David - and i've been a fan 30 years as well, you > really should check out Jonifest. It's a whole lotta joni! mmm - in all the time ive been listening to joni here ive only come across two people who actually *got* her music one was the guy who introduced me to shadows & light. a criminal from one of the worst areas of johannesburg. been in & out of jail for various offences. rough & tough & would fight anyone just for the hell of it. a great friend, with a great taste in music, who loved & appreciated the beauty of joni mitchell................ another was the friend who helped me thru my severe depression after i finished military service. ill never forget the look on her face when she heard "blue" for the first time. or her tone of voice when she said"its beautiful" in a way that just put so much depth into those two words. then you go to jonifest - while the music is great - its the wall to wall people who get joni which just makes it oh so great. leaving is a real bitch, as is having to finally come to terms with the fact that i just cant make it this year due to work pressures............................ i nearly got fired last year 'cause our budgets were so late & such a mess :-) & i really, really wanted to do the duck pond this year :-) as someone said while we were there (john van tiel i think it was) jonifest is all the friends you ever wanted to meet gathered in one place. (well - nearly all cause where the hell were all the reast of you people i wanted to meet :-) so having bowed to the unavoidable & very unpleasant truth, tomorrow i go to blow the airfare id saved - on a truly beautiful landscape to hang on my wall - the very, very first painting i have ever fallen in love with..................... ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:32:39 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear Gary writes: << Joni may well have really seen a black man with a ruby and it struck her, and stayed with her. >> Or Joni was alluding to Shakespeare's "rich jewel in an Ethiop's ear." In any case, for both Shakespeare's time and Joni's, I think the image meant discovering something wonderful in an exotic location that really catches the onlooker's eye. Nowadays, of course, a ruby in a black man's ear would just mean he had nice bling. - --Smurf, with such severe age-related identity problems, he's using the words "nowadays" and "bling" in the same sentence . . . ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:39:04 EDT From: Harry83house@aol.com Subject: Both Sides Now & "Love, Actually" Bryan, Last winter, I was caught completely off guard by LOVE,ACTUALLY. I found it to be delightful, funny, quirky and moving. I'd heard and read so many negative things about the movie, but almost every critic had pointed out Emma Thompson's beautiful scene in her bedroom while Joni Mitchell's "Both Sides Now" is played. So out of curiosity , I went to see it, and I'm glad I did. I had a great time. And I'm glad its boosted sales for Joni, too. Have a great weekend! Harry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:39:43 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear **Joni may well have really seen a black man with a ruby and it struck her** Don't you think that this is the same Midway she writes about in Harlem in Havana? Part of the show was drag queens, right? "See that tall girl? That's a man That one, too With the yellow feather fan" And the show WAS an all-black revue "Emmy May ran away With a man as dark as night You can see him, if you go there Second trumpet to the right" So it's probably THIS image of this drag queen, ruby in his ear that Joni first uses in "Midway". She may have lifted it from Shakespeare but it rang true for her as well. Bob NP: Death Cab For Cutie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:44:46 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear Muller writes: << So it's probably THIS image of this drag queen, ruby in his ear that Joni first uses in "Midway". >> Oh, there he goes with another one of his drag queen theories . . . Good nght! - --Smurf, getting ready for a date with a very special JMDLer who works very, very hard! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:47:22 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear **Oh, there he goes with another one of his drag queen theories . . . Good nght! Well Bob of course you know that the original title was "That Song About the Drag Queen"* Bob NP: The Tornadoes, "Telstar" *not actually true ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 12:05:27 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: BSN, International Smash Bryan wrote: > Well, sort of. With the release of the Love Actually DVD (I know, I know, > many of you hated that movie and hated BSN for that matter), Both Sides Now has > been selling in the 100s-300s for about a month now on Amazon.com, USA and UK. > Today's trivia, FYI. Well, I loved the movie (especially the segments with Liam Neeson and his stepson), and I love BSN, so there! But watching the DVD turned out to be a bonus, because the "extras" had a great segment with Richard Curtis (the writer) talking about the choice of the songs in the movie. When he spoke about Both Sides Now, he was very enthusiastic about Joni, and he said Emma's line about how Joni taught her how to feel (or words to that effect) was true for him, and that Joni was one of the greatest song-writers ever. I wish I'd had the time to transcribe exactly what he said, but he's definitely a true fan who "gets" Joni! And the whole movie would be worth watching just for the scene with Emma Thompson and BSN. Interestingly, he spoke about "Songbird" as though it was an Eva Cassidy song, and although she does a great version, I still prefer Christine McVie's original! Hell - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a WHOLE NEW EXPERIENCE! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:06:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear njc --- Emily Tedrowe wrote: > now if only i could figure out why there is this > random blue line running to the left of my screen > here and how i can get rid of it!! > It's the Smurf virus. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:08:32 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Another word on Morrissey njc The Moz was on Later with Jools Holland tonight. The new songs sounded OK, but not great; he was his expected unco-operative self being interviewed, although I don't blame him for that, as Jools is probably the world's worst interviewer. At the end of the show the band struck up There Is A Light That Never Goes Out (a Smiths classic, for those not familiar with his oeuvre), and it was just beautiful. He may be an extremely odd fellow, truculent and self-absorbed - but I will always cut him some slack as an artist of singular talents. Have a listen to Hatful Of Hollow, if you're curious as to what The Smiths actually sounded like. Read this month's Word magazine for some history on the band. Oh, and there was a documentary on him last year on telly, where, perhaps surprisingly, he came across pretty well. The bad news: watching Later meant I missed most of the cricket highlights, including Chris Cairns's heroic knock for the Kiwis. I hope you enjoyed it Hell! Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 12:12:21 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: from Lands Downunder (NJC) Gerald wrote: > I wonder how many Aussies and Kiwis we have on this list? > > I suspect there may be some quiet ones. Although I've been here since 1996, > I've very rarely posted, just listened in a lot. And I've only ever met > 3 JMDLers in all these years : Ashara (yes I've had The Hug !), Meri Jones > (do any of you old-timers remember him ?), and Vanessa - are you still here > Vanessa ?? At least we all get to hear from Ash in Tassie, Hell in NZ, > and John the Wombat in the Blue Mountains, so there are *some* correspondents > downunder. > > Though I have no desire to sing Joni songs myself, it'd be nice to meet > some of the 'local' listers - as long as we can agree to limit the discussion > of US politics, and the rendition of songs from DED ! I'm definitely interested, although financially it will be a while before I can even afford this! I have met (and hugged) a large number of JMDLers (only because I've been to two Northeast US Jonifests)! Maybe we can work towards doing something down-under next year? I know it's a long way off, but it would give everyone (ie. especially me) a chance to save up a bit! And I'm happy to limit the discussion on US politics, but disappointed that I won't be able to perform my DED retrospective. It's only 3 hours long...... just kidding! I do love DED, but listening to three hours of me singing (or attempting to) would definitely ensure that no one else ever listened to it ever again! Hell - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a WHOLE NEW EXPERIENCE! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:13:27 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN, International Smash - now Eva and njc In a message dated 22/05/2004 01:07:20 GMT Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << Interestingly, he spoke about "Songbird" as though it was an Eva Cassidy song, and although she does a great version, I still prefer Christine McVie's original! >> Eva had a supreme gift, although she didn't always deploy it to its best effect. She could make a faux pas (her version of The Letter just doesn't work for me), yet she rescued Field's Of Gold from the drab hands of Gordon Sumner (may god forgive me, but I can't stand Sting!) and made it shine anew. And her version of Autumn Leaves is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard. I agree about her version of Songbird; in fact Christine Collister's version is my favourite of all. Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 01:35:33 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Smurfs racism (not OUR Smurf) NJC The good thing about working in a comedy theatre is that it's very educational, even the (especially) the comedians (of both sexes) that play there. The one thing that I learned from the comedienne Natalie Haynes, the other week is that the creator of The Smurfs was Belgian and a possible racist. So Natalie, it turns out is half Belgian and she was talknig about how the only famous Belgians seem also to be Nazi supporters and, generally racist. She had quite controversial things to say about Herge (the creator of Tintin) who published also in the Nazi press but that's by the by. There were a few others. Of course Agatha Christie's Hercule Poirot is fictional so he doesn't count... The most shocking thing about her set was the fact that not all Smurfs were blue. They had created a black smurf. Only ONE. And you can buy it in mainland Europe. It comes bound in a cage. She had bought one to prove it and it's quite sick. Not quite the cute and cuddly creatures that we thought they were... Not sure why I'm spreading the word, I'm not saying that Belgians are racist and Nazi supporters but nobody mentions the black smurf... Anyway, not much Joni, in fact none at all Jamie Zoob - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 22:11:05 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear The term is "bling-bling," Smurf. Never just bling, baby. Word up, dawg. I thought you were black, like me. Now you got me straight tripping, Boo. :-) Ahem. Thanks for bringing up these lyrics, Em. Joni's genius is in them. I'm playing the song in my head. I'm thinking of how beautifully Joni paints "setting" with her words and music. She says I met you *on* a midway..."midway" being a metaphor for "mid-life," and hence "a fair" connotes life itself, I like to think. Similar to the familiar allusion "life is a cabaret." Also, keep in mind that the lyric is the character's *recollection* of what had happened a year ago. Her feelings *now* are that the object of her desire appeared as a precious jewel amid exotic mystery and excitement. She emphasizes the lyric "ruby" in the song, only to reverse the listener's expectation with the subtle "black man's ear" allusion. Now, a red ruby in a black man's ear would only stand out upon close scrutiny, and the contrast would be subtle. Joni fond the juxtaposition and symbolism un-ignorable and created art from it. Interestingly, it is the black man we discuss now all these years later, not the lover Joan laments in the song. Cool. I love the lyric and how it speaks to Joni's boldness, mind-beauty and innocence. She is saying, in effect, that black is beautiful, sexual, mystic and exotic, and she creates an allusion of love lost from the sentiment. And she doesn't stutter when she sings "black man" neither. Contrast this with the perception of black men illuminated in Michael Moore's documentary "Bowling For Columbine." Anyone know what I'm saying? Anyway, I've been looking high and low for a real ruby earring to sport in my own black lobe, so I'll be properly accessorized when I finally meet Joan. I wonder how many people will see me and "get it" when I finally find one. We shall see. - -Julius > Nowadays, of course, a ruby in a black man's ear would just mean he > had nice bling. > > --Smurf, with such severe age-related identity problems, he's using the > words > "nowadays" and "bling" in the same sentence . . . ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 23:04:16 -0500 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Re: "TV" crushes njc Ron wrote: watching "fraser" in order to see peri gilpin :-) I find David Hyde Pierce cuter than cute. MMM. mack Np: missy-when I look down the road. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 01:41:53 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: "TV" crushes njc this whole thread is interesting tis a pity that none of you male or female have seen me on tv - oh well, your loss! :-) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 02:04:36 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: May 22 On May 22 the following article was published: 1998: "Cool Dylan a hard act to follow in concert" - Toronto Sun (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=387 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #236 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)