From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #234 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, May 20 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 234 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni at the movies fantasy [BRIANASYMES@aol.com] Re: kerry njc [dsk ] Re: kerry njc (correction) [dsk ] Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Fear, njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Butterflies and lilac eggs, NJC ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Re: butterflies and lilac sprays [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC [Smurfycopy@aol.com] the anti-Joni partner NJC [kate@katebennett.com] NJC: other "TV" crushes [kate@katebennett.com] Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC [Lori Fye ] RE: butterflies and lilac sprays ["Wally Kairuz" ] Fear, njc [kate@katebennett.com] Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC [kate@katebennett.com] computer advice njc [kate@katebennett.com] Re: a furry joni...(njc) [Ken ] jonifest NJC [Em ] Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Butterflies and lilac eggs, NJC ["Cynthia Vickery" ] RE: kerry njc ["anon anon" ] Kerry and Nader njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Butterflies and lilac sprays ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Larry Klein (and Joni) mention... [hell@ihug.co.nz] do the HOSL! [Em ] Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Re: Hayley & Elizabeth, now Shelley Fabares NJC [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: butterflies and lilac sprays [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: butterflies and lilac sprays [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:32:44 -0400 From: BRIANASYMES@aol.com Subject: Joni at the movies fantasy Shrek 2 is coming out, here is my fantasy Shrek is visiting the Ye Village Pub orders a beer from the Ugly Stepsister bartender. Then a Blond two headed Ogre steps out on stage and starts singing Twisted ! then after that she goes out to the audience and has a couple of smokes with different smitten men, she gets back on stage and starts singing with each head looking at a different guy Both Sides Now ! The back up band D lahm on the piano would be the "Fox" from Pinocchio M Paz on Bass would be Woody the Wood Pecker Lead Guitar Kate Bennett would be "Ariel" (Disney Mermaid) The Announcer SC Joni Guy "Schroeder" the Pianist from Peanuts I hope no one was offended by this fantasy. Brian Clockin Talkin and Shockin ? I am a troubled child ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:37:53 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: kerry njc This is what I've seen in many different situations: > >It's easier to be idealistic when one doesn't live directly with the > >results. and Colin disagrees, seeing it this way: > ... To me, it is a false statement. The whole > world lives directly with the results of USA elections. Everyone in the world is affected by who's in charge here, but not *directly* in the way U.S. citizens are, and by that I mean living with losing reproductive rights and civil liberties if Bush is re-elected because he'll load the Supreme Court with conservative fundamentalist Christians, or paying higher taxes in non-obvious regressive ways to make up for the loss of revenue from the millionaires' tax cut, or having NO health care, or concern about the neo-cons bankrupting Social Security and Medicare so they'll disappear, or reinstating the draft, which would include women this time... that's what I meant by "directly." Many people on this list have written emotionally about having to live with the decisions made in the U.S. even though they have no say in it, and I'm disagreeing with that at all. I can see from your comment, Colin, that it depends on where one's sitting as to what is "direct" or not. In general, though, I think it's true that from afar, away from personal experience and involvement with certain situations, it is much easier to be idealistic and, taken to the negative, express scorn for those people who ARE involved who are not behaving as the idealist demands. Some people take it upon themselves to tell everyone else how to behave. Examples are vociferously anti-abortion men, who will never have to make that decision themselves about their own body and life; priests or any single person negatively judging a married couple who are having problems or divorcing; childless people scornful of parents who are raising less than perfect (in the idealist's eyes) children. Or, as seen here, someone from another country scolding U.S. citizens (many times) because we're not all excited about following his ideals (which, for the 2004 election, would have the effect of helping Bush get re-elected). The scorn heaped by that person upon U.S. voters, including those who are working to make a change for the better, working, taking action, not just talking idealistic theory from afar, is enough to make anyone angry in return. Considering the provocation, I think the responses from the U.S. have been remarkably restrained. Debra Shea, in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:50:33 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: kerry njc (correction) Correction to response to Colin: I'm NOT disagreeing [that people in other countries are affected by U.S. decisions]. (I knew there something missing from that message; funny how the info gets filled in until just after the message is sent.) Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:04:13 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays Cindy writes: << just a thought. what do *y'all* think? >> You are absolutely correct, young lady. You get an "A" for the day. You have come a long way since your wild days of last summer, and I am proud of your improvement. - --Mr. Smurfman, who can practically see the '60s-style notes that teenage girls would buy with butterflies and lilacs . . . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:09:21 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Fear, njc Laura writes: << One of the goals of this campaign is to free voters from fear so they can vote their conscience, their interests and their dreams. >> And, as VInce reminded us, reelect Bush. - --Smurf, who has only known bad financial times during Bush presidencies . . . And has only been embarassed before the world in the last 20 years by presidents Reagan, plus Bush I & II, of course. Blow jobs I can live with . . . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:18:49 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac eggs, NJC <> yippppeeee!!! cindy, sister golden-egg heir delight!! (sorry, susan! sorry, paz! looks like i got me a new beau!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:17:26 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays Exhausted from reviving the many breasted and glorious Birthday Fairy for my birthday, *W* asks what's up with: << "circulate his soul around" >> Simple, Wally! His music -- his "art" -- is his soul and he's selling his soul by participating in the music biz glad-handing that goes along with the star maker machinery. - --Mrs. Claudio *W* Kairuz-Smurfy, who has slices of you from DNA samples ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:18:58 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac eggs, NJC Cindy writes: << (sorry, susan! sorry, paz! looks like i got me a new beau!) >> And we can get married anywhere, not just in Massachusetts! - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:23:54 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC Buck wrote: > Not THE acid test, by any means, but I can truthfully say I was never deeply > involved with any woman who didn't love or, at the very least, appreciate, > Ms. Mitchell. And I was burned by a couple of Joni-haters. So...all y'all > beware. And Donna added: > Joni-haters - they can't be trusted I tell you! Just about all of my best, long-time friends are BIG time fans of Joni. My partner Mary (aka Allison) is a fan of Joni too. She doesn't care too much for the idea of going to Jonifest, but doesn't mind me going. We often enjoy listening to Joni together. Her favorite album is Court and Spark; mine is Hejira. We both like Dog Eat Dog. : ) Some years ago I was in a relationship with a woman who hates Joni. In the first place, she never *got* Joni's music or lyrics, and then I joined this list and that just made things worse. Of course, this woman also acted jealous when I went ga-ga over the actress Helen Hunt -- as if! Some people are just insecure. Although I've done so in the past, now I can't imagine having a serious relationship with someone who didn't at least appreciate Joni to some extent, and I certainly wouldn't stay with someone who got pissed off about the music I enjoy, regardless of what it might be. You didn't ask for this advice, Kate, but I say: dump him. Life is too short to be with someone who is controlling and/or jealous. Best of luck, Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:26:17 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: butterflies and lilac sprays Kate writes: << "Some guy" is no-one special (would Joni be that harsh though?). >> Ha! The answer is YES! Also, maybe you never thought of stationary for "butterflies and lilac sprays" because that style of writing paper was out of style before you ever arrived in this world, Kate! - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:33:31 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC Lori writes: << Some people are just insecure. >> What the hell is THAT supposed to mean, Lori? - --Smurf; huffing, yet smoke-free ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:35:23 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: the anti-Joni partner NJC >I too would love to know how common this is, so I'm going to add mine to the show of hands and perhaps we'll find out!!! My boyfriend has also used the word hate, but has said way worse things: that she is selfish, self-indulgent, merciless in her treatment of men, and has had a VERY BAD INFLUENCE on me, apparently!< my husband puts up with my joni obsession & i think has come to appreciate her songs through our 2 jonifests & my annual santa barbara tributes to joni mitchell... in other words hearing her songs through others... & when i played him travelogue he loved her voice for the first time... as far as your boyfriend's perception of joni's men i think that graham, larry, james & even crosby still have love & admiration for her & would disagree with his point of view.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:39:42 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: NJC: other "TV" crushes george harrison from seeing him on ed sullivan, james taylor from his first album cover, andy garcia from when a man loves a woman & i'm sure there are many more... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:40:03 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC I wrote: >> Some people are just insecure. Smurf huffed: > What the hell is THAT supposed to mean, Lori? I'll be there to marry you soon, Bob. ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:44:26 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: butterflies and lilac sprays not to be confused with "THAT guy"!!! (hi jody!) thanks for the answers. i still think that FTR is CRUCIAL in our education as joniphiles. i'm glad we're back to joni-analysis. signed: Mrs. Robert Murphy-Kairuz -- oh god ! at last! a hyphenated last name! > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > Smurfycopy@aol.com > Enviado el: Jueves, 20 de Mayo de 2004 05:26 p.m. > Para: sellout48@hotmail.com; joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: butterflies and lilac sprays > > > Kate writes: > > << "Some guy" is no-one special ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:50:03 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Hayley Mills & Elizabeth Montgomery, NJC Oh, yes, yes, yes, Les and Lori! Hayley Mills is a goddess! She was my childhood role model. My English Idol! I saw ALL of her movies (Pollyanna, Summer Magic, In Search of the Castaways. etc.) and used to prance around the neighborhood, putting on her accent and mannerisms. She was "scathingly brilliant", remember? That's a line from "The Trouble with Angels." Now I want to go to the video store to rent that after 30+ years! My girlfriends at St. Mary's in 7th grade and I used to try to play tricks on the nuns, imitating the mischievous character, Mary, who Hayley Mills played in that movie, with her sidekick Rachel. She is still beautiful. Look at her here: http://www.hayleymills.com This site says she is going to be live in London on August 31 through the month of September. Azeem, Colin, Queen Lu Lu -- take heed! Do you remember her sister Juliet in that show "The Nanny and the Professor?" I watched it a bit, only because she was Hayley's sister. I also enjoyed Gidget, The Patty Duke Show, Bewitched (how many of you have tried to twitch your nose to avail??? How did she DO that???), Donna Reed (didn't any of you have crushes on Shelley Fabares when she sang "Johnny Angel"?), and Father Knows Best. And let's not forget the MONKEES! My favorite was Mickey Dolenz. And what about the beautiful Swede, Inger (Inga?) Stevens in the Farmer's Daughter? Thinking about these childhood shows is fun, but it also makes me think: what are our kids watching THESE days? Survivor, The Apprentice, Bachelor and Bachelorette? What good are they learning from these stupid shows? Lie and cheat and be shallow and deceive everyone? It's pretty sad. And if Bob Muller is going to be fickle and trade Ellie Mae Clampett for Samantha Stevens (another great beauty -- I loved that show, too. When it came on Thursday nights and the cartoon Samantha on her broom turned on the words "BEEEEEE W I T C H E D" with that lilting music, I got such a happy rush!), I will relinquish Illya to Maggie. If Maggie BECAME Illya, and I tried to become Hayley, I guess that is the best criteria for claiming "dibs" on somene. Sound fair? Having "a wonderful time," Patti, still being silly _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:58:36 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: kerry njc >People seem to want a winning horse, not solutions. It truly is a "race." Yesterday, I heard a democrat who voted for Gore last time say he is going to vote for Bush this time because he doesn't think Kerry will win. He just wants to pick a winner. Nobody who agrees with Nader but is going to vote for Kerry over Nader because they don't think Nader will win can criticize this man in my opinion.< for me its not about a winning horse its about getting rid of a monster who is destroying our country & planet... i want a third party but not nader... he's good at what he does but i don't seem him as a politician... same thing as an actress who wants to be a singer... doesn't always translate... as far as the guy voting for bush to pick a winner, that seems irresponsible from the info you've provided... for nader supporters to vote for kerry means they want bush out because they think he's dangerous... big difference there ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:01:51 -0400 From: cul Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays I always saw this song in reference to Chuck Mitchell "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". Fans wanting to connect and play into Mitchell's intimacies thereby having the feeling of knowing her...send her notes at concerts on paper which has lilac sprays and/or butterflies printed in pastel along the borders of the page. Mitchell is making reference and distancing herself from that naiveti girlish innocence which would inspired to send such notes. "On your mark red ribbon runner,... "Red ribbon runner" is a description someone willing to come in second place, whose ambitions are less than those of a "blue ribbon runner" (blue ribbon =1st place in a competition, red ribbon = second place)... the caressing REV of motors finely tuned like fancy women in thirties evening gowns" here she's describing a sort of elegance that appeals to the red ribbon runner (a parallel effect is used by Mitchell in "Furry" when she talks about the "ghosts of the dark society coming right out of the bricks at me, like its Saturday night and their dressed in their finery"... she's evoking the elegance of a long gone era and comparing it Furry's modern disquiet to show how much has been lost, both in the culture and in Furry. Its one of her most beautiful poems that speaks to the hollowness of fame and the isolation that comes with being an performing artist. I was sitting out on our beach in Sechelt one fall night (not far from Joni's seaside house)under a large Arbutus tree and a full moon. I heard the leaves of tree being rustled by a chilly wind and the rising tide was causing the driftwood logs to bump into one another. It indeed sounded like applause and moon scintillating on the black water was just like a single spotlight on a stage. I shivered thinking of her line, "I heard it in the wind last night It sounded like applause Chilly now End of summer No more shiny hot nights It was just the arbutus rustling And the bumping of the logs And the moon swept down black water Like an empty spotlight Kate Cox wrote: I was just wondering if anyone could throw any light on this mystifying lyric! "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". A butterfly wouldn't be a very convenient thing to write a note on, and I don't even know what a lilac spray is! I've contented myself for a while with the idea that the girls are writing ABOUT butterflies & lilac sprays, and that perhaps James Taylor had given them such objects, but I'm sure someone has a better idea... Come to think of it, there are quite a few lyrics that mystify me in that song. "On your mark red ribbon runner, the caressing rub of motors finely tuned like fancy women in thirties evening gowns". I get the 'on your marks red ribbon runner' bit: she's saying, okay, the race starts here for the sprint of stardom, make sure you're ready. But I'm clueless about the 2nd bit. Does anyone have any thoughts? I adore that song and it irritates me to think I don't completely understand it! Love Kate C ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:04:44 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: Fear, njc >Nader sums it up: This election is dominated by fear - the Republicans play on the fear of terrorism and the Democrats play on the fear of Bush. One of the goals of this campaign is to free voters from fear so they can vote their conscience, their interests and their dreams.< this to me is a good indication why nader is so out of touch... this is not the time to vote about dreams... we can vote about dreams when we get rid of the fascist government... first things first... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:16:23 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC >ANOTHER interesting thread! Lemmee give ya an unsolicited male POV... A couple of days ago I added a tag line to one of my posts to the effect of "bp, who likes strong women even though they're hip to my tricks" To further amplify: Joni was a test of sorts for me when I asked the question "how deep should I let this go?" in my relationships. To be brief: I'd play Blue or FTR for my beloved...< well as much as we disagree on other subjects, i tip my hat to you on this one buck! the sign of a truly enlightened man! jeff & i have different tastes in music but sometimes they overlap... one of our first dates was to see the dylan, joni, morrison concert... talk about a perfect compromise! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:42:37 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: computer advice njc my laptop died... has anyone done a recent comparison shop & or purchase of what is currently out there in laptop land? i've always used a pc... affordable is important but portable & powerful are also important... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:43:56 -0400 From: Ken Subject: Re: a furry joni...(njc) I've got a male Shitsu Lapso who's prominent color is black. When we got him we learned it was Oscar Peterson's birthday and on top off it he looks strikingly like Oscar the Grouch. So it was a no brainer. Oscar it was. Victor Johnson wrote: >I adopted a kitten a couple of weeks ago and named her Joni. She's 10 >weeks old, an adorable tabby cat with the cutest little face. When I have >an opportunity, I'll post a photo to the jonifest list. > >Does anyone have any pets named Joni or who are named after any other >musicians? > >Victor, with DSL again after a month of dial up > > >Victor Johnson >New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now >Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville >http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:44:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: jonifest NJC so, is the closest airport one of the NYC ones? Anyone flying into there and renting a car to drive up to Jonifest?? I'm trying HARD to negotiate this with GF. I want to drive my Mustang with the Mach 460 sound up so I can relax and listen to tunes all the way up - but she insists in order to have her permission I would have to fly into NY and then rent a car. feh... so I'm wondering..anybody else doing this same thing? Its a good thing GF lets me listen to whatever music I like, and she's grown to LOVE Dylan over the years, so I can't bitch too much. But sheesh, talk about having to have control. In fact I think I still have a credit w/ Jet Blue. Last year I was to fly up to NYC and buy a bike from a friend and ride it home, but my (then) 3 dogs got in a horrible fight that night in the dark in my bedroom and I was trying to break it up naked and one of them chewed my arm and my right breast to shreds and I couldn't go. Had to go to the emergency room instead. Was horrible. Didn't get the bike. But I think I still have a credit up to NY. :( Em ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:47:09 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays I always thought "lilac sprays" meant that the note was scented, like you'd spray a love letter. And it may have been before its time, but there are notepads that are shaped like butterflies, I don't know if they existed back in the early 70's but I think so. Cul, I loved your thoughts about comparing the writing technique in FTR to Furry. Loving the whole thread in fact...just wish I could be more active. They've got me firewalled at work once more. Bob NP: Pink Floyd, "Echoes" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:56:00 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac eggs, NJC i said: <> amend that! looks like i caught me TWO! mrs. robertio kaiurphy, wondering how many bookcases we'll need in our new home, and where in the world we can all get married! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:55:09 -0400 From: "anon anon" Subject: Re: kerry njc The fact is Paul,If you have to chose between a Democrat who may deserve a "C-" and Bush who is(at best)an "F",who are you going to chose?In the final analysis,that's what it boils down to.I would much prefer the "C-" to the "F". >From: "Paul Mepschen" >Reply-To: "Paul Mepschen" >To: >Subject: Re: kerry njc >Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 02:19:12 +0200 > >how democratic of you, this kind of respons, Vince -- there's obviously not >much room for dissent in your mind. jump up and down when you hear the word >Kerry and you are the good guy in Vince's book. > >anyway, I do think there's a big difference between grassroots Democrats >and >status quo politicians like Kerry-- I feel that progressive Democrats >should >link up with others in building an alternative for the two party system -- >that's what this is about. You say the party isn't perfect -- I say it is >lost. And I say that all the energy in trying to safe the party for >progressive, grassroots politics could be directed in building that >alternative. > >I don't care about Nader -- I'd much rather support Camejo if he would run >for the Greens, or perhaps Kucinich if he would break with the Democratic >Party -- > >Vince said: > >I wish some of you would say that to these people to their face. > >Well, that's bullshit. I AM telling it to your face. And please stop the >retoric about the poor struggling Democrats - you sound like you're in the >French underground during WW2. Where were you when your lovely mister >Clinton bombed Iraq and Belgrade to pieces during the nineties? >And who is insulting who anyway? You compare Kerry to Mandela. Talking >about >the historical record. To suggest that the difference between Republicans >and Democrats is like the difference between pro-apartheid parties and the >people in the struggle is simply pervers. > >paul _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:04:06 -0400 From: "anon anon" Subject: RE: kerry njc >From: kate@katebennett.com >Reply-To: kate@katebennett.com >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: kerry njc >Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:58:36 -0700 (PDT) > > >People seem to want a winning horse, not solutions. It truly is a >"race." Yesterday, I heard a democrat who voted for Gore last time say >he is going to vote for Bush this time because he doesn't think Kerry >will win. this person is obviously missing a few brain cells...very scary.... He just wants to pick a winner. Nobody who agrees with Nader >but is going to vote for Kerry over Nader because they don't think Nader >will win can criticize this man in my opinion.< > >for me its not about a winning horse its about getting rid of a monster >who is destroying our country & planet... i want a third party but not >nader... he's good at what he does but i don't seem him as a politician... >same thing as an actress who wants to be a singer... doesn't always >translate... as far as the guy voting for bush to pick a winner, that >seems irresponsible from the info you've provided... for nader supporters >to vote for kerry means they want bush out because they think he's >dangerous... big difference there I agree 100%.Kerry may be far from Pefect,but he stills a whole LOT better then Bush.(of course,so is my cat,or the rat I saw cross the road...but anyway...) _________________________________________________________________ Learn to simplify your finances and your life in Streamline Your Life from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0405streamline.armx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:15:53 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Kerry and Nader njc re: Jenny's post below: Same as that for me. . . . *If I am certain that Kerry will receive the vote in NY, then it's Nader I am voting for. This is what I did four years ago. . . Gore was going to win in NY so I voted for Nader. . . I think there is a personal formula we all come up with, depending on our state. . . Something like, if my Kerry's going to take my state, I can give money to Kerry and vote for Nader. Or, if my vote is needed to get Kerry elected in my state, then perhaps I give money to Nader and my vote to Kerry. Or perhaps money to both of them. It is important to have Nader's agenda heard. It is a good agenda. People seem to listen most during an election year. Even though I understand why people add things up this way, I too ("yup") don't believe that Nader was the cause for the "win" for Bush. I want to encourage Nader's ideas. They are good ones. I believe he is really for the people. Marianne >Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:01:31 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jenny Goodspeed >Subject: Re: kerry/nader njc >I'm not trying to add fuel for debate, but I do want to add another >viewpoint... >If Nader is on the ballot in Massachusetts, I will vote for him. I have >that luxury. Kerry will take MA >with or without my vote. So, 'A vote for >Nader is a vote for Bush' doesn't apply across the board in an electoral >voting >system. If I lived in a swing state >the choice of course, would not be so easy. >But, I'm tired of hearing the old Nader cost Gore the election song and >dance - one of dozens >different 'what-if' scenarios. And if >Florida is the lesson learned, I think the Democrats would best spend at >least an equal amount of >energy convincing Democrats to >vote for Kerry as they do trying to convince them not to vote for Nader. >The democrats in Florida >who voted for Bush (far greater a >number than those who voted for Nader) are just as responsible for >"costing" Gore the election (if >you like collecting what-if >scenarios). >I just want to say that voting for someone who gives voice to the causes >and platforms you believe >in is never throwing a vote away >regardless of the current state of third parties in the U.S. and the >obstacles to establishing them as >a signicant voice. Increasing public >awareness of issues otherwise ignored is positive and can be a force for >change in >and of itself. Just ask Howard >Dean - the candidate who spoke out against the war. And boy did the other >candidates jump on >the bandwagon when they saw what a >positive response he got. >Jenny _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:11:09 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Butterflies and lilac sprays I always thought the butterflies and lilac sprays were on girly stationary. Hence: "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". Most of the time when Joni seems elliptical, she quoting from reality. Another example: "He gave her his darkness to regret and good reason to quit him." I found out decades after THOSL was released that the lines are about a blind guy: Jose Feliciano. In those middle decades, Joni was very sharp about recognizing her best lines and (persumably) editing away the sludge. Back then, crazy ideas like a dentist who collects junk never made it onto albums. BTW, it is the caressing "rev" of motors. Sincerely, Jim Kate said,>I was just wondering if anyone could throw any light on this mystifying lyric! "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". "On your mark red ribbon runner, the caressing rub of motors finely tuned like fancy women in thirties evening gowns".> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:26:55 +1200 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Larry Klein (and Joni) mention... I just found this review for the first album ("Love & Such") from NZer Amber Claire: "Amber Claire is first and foremost a singer with a stunning, ethereal voice, and amazing range. The blueprint for the album was simple - take beautiful songs with broad appeal, produce them to the highest standard and let Ambers voice do the rest. The first single Love Remains was written by Larry Klein (a world class songwriter, musician and producer best known for his musical partnership with Joni Mitchell), produced by Simon Holloway and beautifully sung by Amber. The second single At Seventeen, written by Grammy award winning Janis Ian, was a hit for Ian in the 70s selling more than a million copies." No Joni covers, unfortunately ;o)! I haven't heard the album, but I've heard snippets of her "At Seventeen" cover, and she does a credible job. Hell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:49:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: do the HOSL! I likes it! I can CLEARLY see it as the gradient between CAS and Hejira. Clearly! Need to listen some more. Ordered FTR today btw. I feel sooo guilty and some how inadequate that I can't absorb DJRD. I'm like one of these meditteranean women who's system can never absorb enough iron (body just won't DO it) and who are forever anemic. My brain just won't "absorb" DJRD. As George Carlin says, "it goes straight to my colon"! Lori!!!!! I'm so sorry! maybe with time.... I should try it in my car..it still just doesn't "sound" that good to me..not sure why. Maybe its my stereo. But this here HOSL, yeah we're gonna be friends. Thanks everyone for indulging me in my journey. Em ps in time I learned to LOVE certain Dylan albums that at first seemed way difficult - like Planet Waves when it first came out..now its mother's milk to me.. ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 01:14:28 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays I have loved reading the replies to this thread, just wonderful, wonderful. Here's my take... To me this song has alwas been about Joni removing herself away from the trappings of her newfound fame (post Blue, she felt she was as transparent as a cigarette packet wrapper and needed to 'get away') so she built herself a stone cottage. Ok so that's the grandma sucking eggs part, Jamie, get on with it.. Well, in this song, she is seeing the trappings of her past in the events of her present, her reclusiveness is being invaded by what is haunting her ('I heard it in the wind last night, it sounded like applause'). So to me, when she 'get these notes on butterflies' - she's being haunted by another ghost - that of a missing lover. So when pretty butterflies come and float by, or girls pass by and leave her gifts, she feels that thay are all 'conspiring' (for the lack of a better word) to tell her something else ('They saw you... somewhere' possibly meaning that they saw him for *a reason*). Joni is reading too much into nature and well meaning girls, and it isn't good news. Are we surprised that Joni comes back from her 'reclusion' in a state of depression and lives with Geffen and takes a break from writing for a year until she has exorcised her demons and writed Court and Spark, released 2 years after FTR? Of course all this is pure conjecture but I like the image of butterflies 'bringing' her notes, and a pilgrimage of girls with lilac sprays (but now the image of underarm deodorant is making me chuckle, she was living alone in a stone cottage with no electricity, maybe she forgot to wash! lol! I can imagine a Jonifest welcome pack consisting of butterfly notepaper and deodorant. Ashara? An amazing poem, really, inspired by the wind blowing through the trees. And a whole lot more.... Much Joni Jamie Zoob x Kate Cox wrote: I was just wondering if anyone could throw any light on this mystifying lyric! "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". - --------------------------------- How much mail storage do you get for free? Yahoo! Mail gives you 6MB! Get Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:24:41 +1200 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Re: do the HOSL! Em wrote: > I feel sooo guilty and some how inadequate that I > can't absorb DJRD. I'm like one of these > meditteranean women who's system can never absorb > enough iron (body just won't DO it) and who are > forever anemic. My brain just won't "absorb" DJRD. > As George Carlin says, "it goes straight to > my colon"! Lori!!!!! I'm so sorry! maybe with > time.... > I should try it in my car..it still just > doesn't "sound" that good to me..not sure why. > Maybe its my stereo. But this here HOSL, yeah > we're gonna be friends. > Thanks everyone for indulging me in my journey. I would suggest persevering with DJRD. Maybe put it away for a while, until you've heard HOSL and FTR, then bring it out again. It took me a while to "get it". The first time I heard it, I liked a couple of tracks (Jericho and Otis and Marlena) but on the whole I was disappointed. But now I love all of it - still some parts more than others, admittedly! I also found it worked well as background music, while I was doing other things, like reading, or housework, rather than actively listening. Maybe that would work for you, too? Hell NP: Anika Moa - Good In My Head ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 01:44:48 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: do the HOSL! Hi Em Don't worry, DJRD will happen for you... it's just one of those things like realising that the horns in the opening track of DJRD are really played by a fretless bass (listen to it, read the liner notes, it's only Joni and Jaco on it. It's the things like that that are amazing about this album. Listen to Paprika Plains and try to find the join between the 'song' parts and the instrumental parts, the way the piano is tuned slightly differently between the 3 sections (as the instrumental section was part of improvisations that she did and hung it like 'a medallion' in the middle of the song. Or that she can go to her band and say, 'OK boys and girls, the next track is yours,' and gives them The Tenth World. Chaka Khan turns up and gives her vocal lines... It's a lot looser than Hejira but you still get the feeling that Joni is tessellating her players to where she wants them to come in. Some people think that this is Hejira Part Deux as she wrote the title song around the same time as Coyote (same tuning) and Dreamland was written for HOSL and Jericho was written before that. Some people think it's irregular (it's part folk, part jazz-funk, part contemporary Classical, part world music. It's political music, it has disco, it is surreal, it is realist, it poetic, it's gritty) but to me, it's the best of Joni in 4 sides (ok, so I'm showing my age). Even the album cover (my favourite poster after Mingus) is experimental - Joni blacking up! Joni as a Native American, Joni as a child, Joni plays with balloons and a magician's kid, some doves flap about. Why? It's crazy and funky and it works. I don't know why. Anyway Em, if Hejira is a car journey across America, DJRD is an aeroplane journey looking down on Life, trying to grasp the wider picture by looking at the detail. Travel safely. Go slow. Get into a meditative state and put it on. Much Joni Jamie Zoob Em wrote: I likes it! I can CLEARLY see it as the gradient between CAS and Hejira. Clearly! Need to listen some more. Ordered FTR today btw. I feel sooo guilty and some how inadequate that I can't absorb DJRD. I'm like one of these meditteranean women who's system can never absorb enough iron (body just won't DO it) and who are forever anemic. My brain just won't "absorb" DJRD. - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:30:21 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Joni Covers #31-40 Just to keep everyone informed, the Joni Covers #31-40 masters were sent Tuesday morning to Doug Meek up on the Joni side of the border (heh-heh-heh... do you like that one?) Doug: enjoy! Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:33:03 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Larry Klein (and Joni) mention... In a message dated 5/20/2004 7:30:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: No Joni covers, unfortunately ;o)! I haven't heard the album, but I've heard snippets of her "At Seventeen" cover, and she does a credible job. Thanks for checking, Hell - as you know I need LOTS of eyes & ears to get the job done. And speaking of "At 17", I'm looking forward to a night with Janis Ian in about 2 weeks. Bob, who would challenge that writer's claim of Klein as a "world class songwriter" but I'm in such a great mood I won't even mention it. NP: Prince, "Mr. Man" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:40:26 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: do the HOSL! **Don't worry, DJRD will happen for you... And if it never does Em, realize that it's OK and we all love you just as much. Chalk Mark, Travelogue and BSN don't happen for me, and I'm OK with that. Luckily we're not in high school anymore so we don't all have to like the same things to like each other. But I'll add that the leap from Hejira to DJRD, so just be persistent. Bob NP: Patti Smith, "Jubilee" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:59:19 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: kerry, njc LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: > Randy wrote: > It may appear as though we have a democracy, but it is the choice between > which candidate > will represent big business. > > Yep. Money has replaced the gun. And we just keep going along with it > year after year because we believe we have to. Do we really? > > Love, > Laura No, but the sleeping giant has to awaken first, and they are under some powerful narcotics. Thanks for your insights. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:07:51 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hayley & Elizabeth, now Shelley Fabares NJC From the wayback machine, Patti writes: << (didn't any of you have crushes on Shelley Fabares when she sang "Johnny Angel"?), >> YES! Don't tell a soul, but I wrote to her and she wrote back. I am not kidding. (After that we started seeing other people, lost touch, and now she doesn't even know that I - I - I exist!) Shelley's aunt, of course, was Nanette *Fabray*, who was the only 'out' deaf person on TV all throughout the 60s and 70s. She used to go on Merv's TV show and show everybody her waxy little hearing aid. She was lovably wacky in an unsinkably optimistic way. Used to like her then, wouldn't be able to stand her now, though. I have been TV free for nearly one year now. I don't miss the crap, and crap is what I always used to love to watch. Never could stomach Shelley on "Coach," though. Too crappy. (Sigh.) Mary Stone . . . I bet Shelley's retired now, like you-know-who. - --Smurf, who is as old as McKay and proud of it! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:23:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC --- Donna Binkley wrote: > > Yes Kate, i've lived together with 3 men over the > last 25 or so years > and they all hated Joni. In fact one seemed to hate > any kind of music i > loved. Personally i always thought it was a control > thing - if they > could take away something that made me happy without > them, then they had > the upper hand emotionally. Maybe it's just me > thinking that way, but i > really don't see why my listening to a particular > type of music should > be so infuriating ya know?? Donna, I totally agree with you on this point. There is no reason on earth why someone should so disdain the things you love that they feel the need to get angry over it, to belittle you for the things you love. My ex, with all his faults, wasn't a Joni fan, but didn't hate her either. He did like BSN (it seems a lot of people who don't like her other stuff, do like BSN). (He would belittle me for just about anything else I loved and suck all the energy and enjoyment out of life, but that's another story I don't want to waste any time on anymore.) We had a married couple as friends. The man was always putting down the music the woman listened to, or anything that she enjoyed. He would get so angry about this sometimes that, if they were having a party and Karen started playing some music that she liked - dance music, for God's sake it was a party! - Paul would get all huffy and pouty and start yelling about how what she was playing was meaningless shit, and ruin everyone's time. Eventually they split but, the last time we saw him, he had remarried and was putting down his 2nd wife for the TV shows she liked to watch. He always had to be the one who got all the attention and if something took his wife's attention away from Paul Almighty, he would have a tantrum. I really wish that I had told him to just f*ck off and grow up back then, and am so glad I haven't seen him for a long time. It's one thing not to enjoy the other person's taste in all things, but to get angry about it? Not worth it. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:26:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC --- Kate Cox wrote: > > Also, I hate to say this, but I think sexism is > involved too. My > boyfriend said to me quite recently, "You have to > admit there have been > more influential and successful men than women in > music and literature > and blah blah blah". I couldn't BELIEVE he would > miss the point that this > is because women have been kept down in various > overt and subtle ways for > millennia, and are only just beginning to redress > the balance. Oh, my Lord, Kate - dump him now! I know I'm evil, but this guy really needs to grow up. Don't let yourself get sucked into that "me-me-me" thing from him - there's too much you at stake! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:42:19 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: butterflies and lilac sprays *W* signed: << Mrs. Robert Murphy-Kairuz -- oh god ! at last! a hyphenated last name! >> If I married more JMDLers, I'd be . . . Mrs. Robert "Troy" Stansfield McNally Paz Vickery Hone Fortenski Guzzi Johnson & Johnson Kairuz-Murphy! Hmm . . . Talk about being pinned in a corner! XO, - --Mrs. Norman Maine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:42:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: butterflies and lilac sprays --- Smurfycopy@aol.com wrote: > Kate writes: > > << "Some guy" is no-one special (would Joni be that > harsh though?). >> > > > Ha! The answer is YES! > > Also, maybe you never thought of stationary for > "butterflies and lilac > sprays" because that style of writing paper was out > of style before you ever arrived > in this world, Kate! > > --Smurf Ha. That goes to show how much YOU know. There are still people (women mostly, I guess) that use that terrible stuff. And the e-mail stationery too, which is even worse. I never pictured it as stationery. For some reason, I took it quite literally. I imagined a huge armful of lilacs tied up with ribbons and a few fake butterflies stuck in there, with notes attached from admiring female fans, who wanted her to get back with JT (or whoever it was she was talking about), so they'd tell her they had seen him somewhere, maybe to comfort her. These same people, 20 or 30 years on, would no doubt ask her about the JT affair, like it was yesterday, like the ones that still think Rickie Lee Jones and Tom Waits were the couple of the century. The red-ribbon-runner thing always reminded me of typewriters, the old-fashioned manual things. We used to have one at home that had belonged to my grandparents. It had one of those ribbons that was half black and half red ink and you could shift a key to change colours - I suppose it was really meant for typing accounting things and you could type all the negative amounts in red, but I used to love typing stories using that thing, switching back and forth between colours of ink. (I also had one of those pens that had 12 colours in one big fat pen, and you should push a button to change colours - how cool is that!) I know it doesn't make a lot of sense to the song but that's the image that always came to my mind - I imagined the songwriter using a typewriter to type the words, which is likely not the way it would be done. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #234 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)