From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #233 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, May 20 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 233 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC: other "TV" crushes [Susan Guzzi ] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #232 ["don whiteman" ] the anti-Joni partner NJC ["Kate Cox" ] Logo Voting Reminder [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Re: Joni Covers vol 11-20 [Emiliano ] Re: The Man from U.N.C.L.E NJC [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: NJC: other "TV" crushes [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: The Man from U.N.C.L.E NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: The Man from U.N.C.L.E NJC alternative love [Em ] Re: The Man from U.N.C.L.E NJC [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: "I dream of Joni"; no, not a TV sitcom [PassScribe@aol.com] a furry joni...(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Viggo njc ["mackoliver" ] Re: kerry, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #232 [kate@katebennett.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #232 [kate@katebennett.com] Butterflies and lilac sprays ["Kate Cox" ] Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays [Em ] Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays ["Kate Cox" ] Fear, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays ["Norman Pennington" ] Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays/now NJC [Em ] Re: butterflies and lilac sprays ["Kate Cox" ] Nader & Kucinich NJC ["Maggie McNally" ] RE: viggo NJC ["Maggie McNally" ] Re: Nader & Kucinich NJC [kate@katebennett.com] Re: Nader & Kucinich NJC [Jerry Notaro ] RE: Butterflies and lilac sprays ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Re: viggo NJC ["Joseph S.E. Palis" ] Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC ["Kate Cox" ] Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC ["Kate Cox" ] Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC [David Sadowski ] Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC ["Norman Pennington" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 01:34:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: NJC: other "TV" crushes Okay I tried to narrow this down but I went between two types ... the nutruring femme woman and then a touch of butch sooo .... Elizabeth Montgomery - Samantha ... yes Ken - Angela Cartwright ... Susan Dey ... June Lockhart (red-head!) ... Bridgette Hanley ( Here Come the Brides) and Mary Tyler Moore Patty Duke - as either cousin - depending on my mood! LOL! As for that touch of butch there was Rhoda Morgenstern/Valerie Harper playing a kind of butch to Mary's femme and Dianna Rigg - the Avengers. And as for the more animated woman Jane Jetson, Wilma Flinstone and Betty Rubble! As George Jetson would say "Va-va voooom!" LOL! Clearly though I dig those femmes. And you know there may be more. In fact I know there are - just drawing blanks right now! Peace, Susan Ken wrote: Anyone mention Donna Douglas on the Beverly HillBillies or Angela Cartwright on Lost in space. Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:48:42 +1000 From: "don whiteman" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #232 Hi All, About 2 weeks ago Iwas in Los Angeles for a working conference (my annual pilgrimmage) Before I left to go away I was told by Micahel Paz to look up Kakki. Thanks for the tip Paz. Whilst our schedules didn't allow for us to meet up this time, We did get to talk on the phone. It was the night before I left to come back to Australia and we talked for hours. Some of the things that we spoke of were very commonsense much of it c0oncerned Ms. Mitchell of course. I left thinking this Why don't we have a webcam talkfest on this group? I had some friends who were transferred overseas for two years and every friday evening at 8pm there would be a group link up in netmeeting and our kids got to talk and see their friends on the other side of the world. When they came back home it was as if they hadn't been away at all. All that was needed was a webcam. As an Australian I don't get top participate in JoniFest (it always happens when I'm not in the USA) A few years ago I suggested on Lee-Shore List that the Aussie members get together at a central location in Australia. It was decided that Centennial Park in Sydney would be an ideal place on a beautiful Saturday afternoon. Well it did work and there were about 6 or 7 members, most of them musos and we got together and made some very beautiful music and shared stories and looked at photographs and the such. Kakki remembered this from the Lee-Shore list and said we should try the same thing for JMDL Aussies (kiwis too if you are here). So this is a call for all Australian (and kiwis) on this list to show if you are interested in getting together and create our own downunder JoniFest. It can work people, what have we got to loose by trying. Then we can send stuff back through the list for others to see what we can do. Hey Kakki, I said I would try to get it happening. looking forward to lots of replies Don Whiteman Sydney Australia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:07:20 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: the anti-Joni partner NJC Garret wrote: ">he dislikes Joni more than is natural, has used the term hate (and that is among >the more, ehrm, reasonable terms), and *will not sit in the same room if she is >playing!!* he's not a fan of patti smith, but has admitted to really enjoying >her concerts (i've only subjected him to three in the last ten months). >The anti-Joni partner. How common is this?" I too would love to know how common this is, so I'm going to add mine to the show of hands and perhaps we'll find out!!! My boyfriend has also used the word hate, but has said way worse things: that she is selfish, self-indulgent, merciless in her treatment of men, and has had a VERY BAD INFLUENCE on me, apparently! He gets in a very bad mood if I pick him up and Joni is playing on my car stereo. The funny thing is, he really used to hate Patti Smith too, but Patti seems to have been comparatively forgiven since I got into Joni. I really can't understand it, as in general his taste in music is very intelligent. Does anyone else have this problem?! Love Kate - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stay in touch better and keep protected online with MSNs NEW all-in-one Premium Services. Find out more here. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 06:39:20 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Logo Voting Reminder Time to vote for the Jonifest 2004 LOGO!!!!!!!!!! Go to: http://jonifest.com/vote.cfm All votes must be in by May 31st. Please, only one vote per person. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:59:18 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: Joni Covers vol 11-20 Hi, Laurent! It came yesterday, today's gone! The discs are already in its way to our mutual friend Laurent, in Paris. I haven't actually listened properly to them, yet. A couple of albums while correcting pupils' papers about The Human Rights' Universal Stement (Only if...) Many many thanks again to Bob, Eric & Doug Laurent: I'll send later to you the document with the correct order for the songs, right? Well, Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano NP: Courage of Lassie !??!- Urge for Going - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Laurent Olszer" Para: "Emiliano" CC: Enviado: jueves, 20 de mayo de 2004 3:05 Asunto: Joni Covers vol 11-20 > Hi Emiliano > > If not too late may I please get the next bunch? > > Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 07:12:25 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: The Man from U.N.C.L.E NJC OH MY GOD, you guys!!! Did you bring back memories!! I must admit though, even though I had a HUGE crush on David McCallum, I didn't even come close to the worship Maggie and Patti had. So......I will keep my Viggo Mortensen shrine, thank you very much. And know that *I* called HIM first!! He's MINE, ALL MINE!!!!!!! :-D Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 07:25:20 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: other "TV" crushes **Wilma Flinstone and Betty Rubble! As George Jetson would say "Va-va voooom!" LOL!** Betty was hot, Wilma was not. Then there's her kid, "Bam-bam (thank you M'am)". Hope Fred & Wilma kept a close eye on Pebbles... Speaking of Jetsons, how about that daughter Judy? Yummy. And even Jane would do in a pinch; hell the way my luck has been I'd take Rosie the Robot. I WOULD draw the line at Astro though...I have my standards, low though they be. Bob NP: Foghat, "Fool For The City" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 07:36:19 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: The Man from U.N.C.L.E NJC In a message dated 20/05/2004 12:12:54 GMT Daylight Time, AsharaJM@aol.com writes: << So......I will keep my Viggo Mortensen shrine, thank you very much. And know that *I* called HIM first!! He's MINE, ALL MINE!!!!!!! :-D >> Can't say I blame you there, Ashara - although to my eyes it's more an Aragorn thing, as I've seen Viggo in other things and he never seems to be quite the same. It's something about the nobility and quiet charisma he brings to the part - and having seen the extra documentary material from the first two films it made me admire him a lot, as he seems to have immersed himself completely in the role and really "mucked in". Anyway, if I had to pick a fella, it would be Aragorn! As for my early crushes, does anyone remember Judy Geeson?? English actress, she was in To Sir With Love, although I remember her best from Danger UXB, a British series from the mid 70s. She had a sister called Sally who was also pretty cute. The big early one was Stacy Dorning, who played Jenny Gordon in the TV adaptation of Black Beauty. She was gorgeous. Then a bit later on, my first poster girl at school was Kim Wilde, blonde bombshell singer who wasn't much older than me when she had her first hit - come to think of it, she *still* isn't much older than me :-) And my most enduring passion is for the unimpeachably stunning Amanda Donohoe. I first saw her, not in her notorious kit-off film debut, Castaway, but in a TV spy series called Game Set & Match, playing opposite Ian Holm. It was love at first sight. And Ian Holm also got to canoodle with the very sexy Mel Martin in that. Bastard. Azeem in London NP: England v New Zealand - finally some test cricket on terrestrial TV! Your boys have made a good start, Hell! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 05:01:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: The Man from U.N.C.L.E NJC alternative love - --- AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > Can't say I blame you there, Ashara - although to my eyes it's more > an > Aragorn thing, as I've seen Viggo in other things and he never seems > to be quite the > same. OK I don't even know who this Viggo guy is.... but then, heck, 4 weeks ago I didn't even know who Wayne Shorter is. But anyway, there *is* one movie/media actual GUY that i find very hot indeed...so I will spill it since I only mentioned women before.. Alan Rickman AS Severus Snape is, lets see, how can I impart the depth of my feeling.... HOTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!! whew.... yeah I could do that in a New York minute.. but only as Snape...I mean he's great otherwise too..but as Snape..looking down from on high....woooohooooo he becomes somehow, for some reason, quite the dream date. :P happy Thursday! Em ps: HOSL hath arriven by my house..tonight - I listen... ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:28:42 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: The Man from U.N.C.L.E NJC In a message dated 5/20/2004 7:36:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, AzeemAK writes: Can't say I blame you there, Ashara - although to my eyes it's more an Aragorn thing, as I've seen Viggo in other things and he never seems to be quite the same. For what it's worth, I fell deeply, madly, passionately in love with Viggo when I first saw "A Walk on the Moon" in 1999 when it first came out. Yes, he is sexy, charismatic and everything else in Lord of the Rings, but in "A Walk on the Moon" he is just SIZZLING!!! (Especially during the JONI content of this film!!) I've since seen this movie about 27 times, and it never ceases to touch my heart in so many ways. For anyone that hasn't seen it, especially for us Baby Boomers, RUN, do not walk to your nearest video store and rent this movie. TODAY!!! :-D (If you don't want to watch the whole thing, you can always fast forward to the Joni content. It is WELL worth it!!) ;-) Hugs, Ashara {sigh} ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:35:11 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: "I dream of Joni"; no, not a TV sitcom Hi to all; thought you'd all get a kick out of the dream I had last night (sorry I can't remember morebor all the detailsbbut you know how that is). It was probably fueled by recent posts by Donna on the upcoming fest and my going into the fest archives last night and reading past posts from all who attended last year's event (including myself). First of all, it was held at a big old house on the north shore of Long Island, overlooking the water (Long Island Sound); this is probably from deep within my subconcious (Todd Rundgren & the Nazz rented a house on the north shore of LI in the '60's but I don't know if it was on the water; I have a bootleg cassette tape of some songs they recorded there). Because I arrived early to the fest, I was able to select the spot where the diving platform would be moored; I chose a spot just beyond where the waves would break (yes, I know, there are no waves on the LI Sound but this is a dream, remember? Michael Paz was also there early and we sat and talked for a long time before others arrived. We were also sharing sleeping quarters wherever we could find a spot so I picked out a cot in the large main room of the house with a view of the water. Shortly after we went to "bed", it started to rain and there was a leak right over my cot... I had to move to my right to avoid it. The best part is that JONI WAS THERE but I think it was before anyone else showed up because I remember talking to her at great length about music and our personal lives but no one else was around (no witnesses so I have no proof?) I think I remember someone posting a recent message on the JMDL site about wishing he could talk to Joni so that was probably the spark for that part. When I woke up this morning it was still fresh in my mind and almost seemed real for a few moments... wishful thinking, eh? I decided to jot these things down before I forgot the few things I DID remember. I'm still not sure if I'll make it to this year's fest as I've started a new job and will have to see if I can take the time off (can't go up Sat and come home Sunday/need at least half day off Friday and Monday... I'll check with my manager in the next week or so. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:04:55 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: a furry joni...(njc) I adopted a kitten a couple of weeks ago and named her Joni. She's 10 weeks old, an adorable tabby cat with the cutest little face. When I have an opportunity, I'll post a photo to the jonifest list. Does anyone have any pets named Joni or who are named after any other musicians? Victor, with DSL again after a month of dial up Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:16:06 -0500 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Viggo njc Don't forget his buck naked scene in one of his earlier movies Viggo fans. mack > In a message dated 5/20/2004 7:36:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, AzeemAK writes: > Can't say I blame you there, Ashara - although to my eyes it's more an > Aragorn thing, as I've seen Viggo in other things and he never seems to be quite the > same. > For what it's worth, I fell deeply, madly, passionately in love with Viggo > when I first saw "A Walk on the Moon" in 1999 when it first came out. Yes, he is > sexy, charismatic and everything else in Lord of the Rings, but in "A Walk on > the Moon" he is just SIZZLING!!! (Especially during the JONI content of this > film!!) I've since seen this movie about 27 times, and it never ceases to > touch my heart in so many ways. For anyone that hasn't seen it, especially for us > Baby Boomers, RUN, do not walk to your nearest video store and rent this > movie. TODAY!!! :-D (If you don't want to watch the whole thing, you can always > fast forward to the Joni content. It is WELL worth it!!) ;-) > > Hugs, > Ashara {sigh} ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:31:22 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: kerry, njc Randy wrote: Kerry voted for the Iraq invasion, for the Patriot Act. Hi Randy! Yes, this is a very displeasing truth. I respect him for being one of the first Vietnam protesters, but that was a long time ago. Pleasing truth. The choice is, do you want to eat 4 quarts of shit, or 5 quarts of shit? No shit? But I do not agree with Nader that there is NO difference between the parties. This was a generalization by Nader. It doesn't hold in specifics. But his point was well made. I wonder if revolution will ever come? Evolution is regardless... How long can we live like "hopelessly oppressed cowards"... "here in good old God save America the home of the brave and the FREE." Our voting system reminds me of communism under the guise of two parties; we are held captive at the hands of men with money rather than guns; voting is a pacifier but really doesn't represent the voice of the people. I do trust the prophet Beatle that it will be "alright." I still love to sing it even after all these years: You say you want a revolution Well you know We all want to change the world You tell me that it's evolution Well you know We all want to change the world But when you talk about destruction Don't you know you can count me out Don't you know it's gonna be alright Alright Alright You say you got a real solution Well you know We'd all love to see the plan You ask me for a contribution Well you know We're doing what we can But when you want money for people with minds that hate All I can tell you is brother you have to wait Don't you know it's gonna be alright Alright Alright You say you'll change the constitution Well you know We all want to change your head You tell me it's the institution Well you know You better free your mind instead But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow Don't you know know it's gonna be alright Alright Alright Randy continued with: Same as Clinton, except that Clinton pretended to represent change, but it was a sham. Clinton's hands were tied. Don't you be talkin about Billy Jeff this way! Blame it on Nader! Nader offers some pretty good solutions, but who want's solutions? People seem to want a winning horse, not solutions. It truly is a "race." Yesterday, I heard a democrat who voted for Gore last time say he is going to vote for Bush this time because he doesn't think Kerry will win. He just wants to pick a winner. Nobody who agrees with Nader but is going to vote for Kerry over Nader because they don't think Nader will win can criticize this man in my opinion. It may appear as though we have a democracy, but it is the choice between which candidate will represent big business. Yep. Money has replaced the gun. And we just keep going along with it year after year because we believe we have to. Do we really? Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:26:24 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #232 >I don't care about Nader -- I'd much rather support Camejo if he would run for the Greens, or perhaps Kucinich if he would break with the Democratic Party --< i have been in the room when kucinich was asked why he isn't running green... he is adamant about staying with the democratic party...bascially because at this point in time its the only realistic way to make a vote count... he is working from within to try & change the democratic party which is why he is still in the race... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:29:16 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #232 sorry joni onlys for my last njc post! i know better but am using a different computer & forgot to change the subject! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:35:55 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Butterflies and lilac sprays I was just wondering if anyone could throw any light on this mystifying lyric! "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". A butterfly wouldn't be a very convenient thing to write a note on, and I don't even know what a lilac spray is! I've contented myself for a while with the idea that the girls are writing ABOUT butterflies & lilac sprays, and that perhaps James Taylor had given them such objects, but I'm sure someone has a better idea... Come to think of it, there are quite a few lyrics that mystify me in that song. "On your mark red ribbon runner, the caressing rub of motors finely tuned like fancy women in thirties evening gowns". I get the 'on your marks red ribbon runner' bit: she's saying, okay, the race starts here for the sprint of stardom, make sure you're ready. But I'm clueless about the 2nd bit. Does anyone have any thoughts? I adore that song and it irritates me to think I don't completely understand it! Love Kate C - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:48:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays "notes on" would mean notes about or pertaining to "butterflies and lilac sprays". I take it that a "spray" of lilacs would be some branches and the flowers. A "spray" of flowers? Not like some room deoderizer I hope. But who knows? Don't let it irritate you, Kate. Its not possible to really know. Just go with whatever "visuals" you get. If you tried, for instance, to "know" what every line out of mid 60's Dylan meant..you'd go nuts. Or every line out of a Burroughs novel. It just can't be! Maybe you could close your eyes and let the imagery run over your eyelids like the shadows of fast moving clouds on an otherwise sunny day. :) Best, Em - --- Kate Cox wrote: > I was just wondering if anyone could throw any light on this > mystifying > lyric! "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls > who > just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". A butterfly wouldn't be > a > very convenient thing to write a note on, and I don't even know what > a > lilac spray is! I've contented myself for a while with the idea that > the > girls are writing ABOUT butterflies & lilac sprays, and that perhaps > James Taylor had given them such objects, but I'm sure someone has a > better idea... Come to think of it, there are quite a few lyrics that > mystify me in that song. "On your mark red ribbon runner, the > caressing > rub of motors finely tuned like fancy women in thirties evening > gowns". I > get the 'on your marks red ribbon runner' bit: she's saying, okay, > the > race starts here for the sprint of stardom, make sure you're ready. > But > I'm clueless about the 2nd bit. Does anyone have any thoughts? I > adore > that song and it irritates me to think I don't completely understand > it! > Love Kate C > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:56:54 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays I wrote: > > I was just wondering if anyone could throw any light on this > > mystifying > > lyric! "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls > > who > > just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". Em wrote:"notes on" would mean notes about or pertaining to "butterflies and >lilac sprays". I take it that a "spray" of lilacs would be some >branches and the flowers. A "spray" of flowers? >Not like some room deoderizer I hope... >Maybe you could close your eyes and let the imagery run over your >eyelids like the shadows of fast moving clouds on an otherwise sunny >day. What a lovely idea! I think I will! It could well have been room deoderizer you know... she liked embarassing James Taylor on that album. "Pack your suspenders, I'll come meet your plane"... Do you like For The Roses, Em? Have you received those ones you ordered yet? Hope you like them if so. Love Kate - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Have more fun with your phone - download ringtones, logos, screensavers, games & more. Click here to begin! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:56:48 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Fear, njc Posted on Saturday, May 8, 2004 Nader sums it up: This election is dominated by fear - the Republicans play on the fear of terrorism and the Democrats play on the fear of Bush. One of the goals of this campaign is to free voters from fear so they can vote their conscience, their interests and their dreams. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:56:56 -0600 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays Kate Cox gave us: > I was just wondering if anyone could throw any light on this mystifying > lyric! "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who > just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". A butterfly wouldn't be a > very convenient thing to write a note on, and I don't even know what a > lilac spray is! I've contented myself for a while with the idea that the > girls are writing ABOUT butterflies & lilac sprays, and that perhaps > James Taylor had given them such objects, but I'm sure someone has a > better idea... Come to think of it, there are quite a few lyrics that > mystify me in that song. "On your mark red ribbon runner, the caressing > rub of motors finely tuned like fancy women in thirties evening gowns". I > get the 'on your marks red ribbon runner' bit: she's saying, okay, the > race starts here for the sprint of stardom, make sure you're ready. But > I'm clueless about the 2nd bit. Does anyone have any thoughts? I adore > that song and it irritates me to think I don't completely understand it! I intrepret the "butterflies and lilac sprays" line as a reference to stationary. It seemed like all the women I dated/corresponded with had "expressive" stationary. You can even have "personalized" stationary in e-mail, now. Now the second bit: "finely tuned like women..." always seemed to me to be an expression about an obsessive attention to detail...i.e., no stone left unturned to achieve maximum performance...whether it's personal or professional. God, but she is SO good! Best Regards, bp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:02:12 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays <<"I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". A butterfly wouldn't be a very convenient thing to write a note on, and I don't even know what a lilac spray is! I've contented myself for a while with the idea that the girls are writing ABOUT butterflies & lilac sprays, and that perhaps James Taylor had given them such objects, but I'm sure someone has a better idea... >> okay, what about this: stationary with butterflies and lilac sprays (a buch of lilacs) printed on it. or that's what i've always imagined.... these notes to joni that say something like "i'm only telling you this becase i'm your friend (which really means: 'i'm only telling you this because i'm jealous of you and your success and i want to even out the playing field a bit'), but your lover ('who i'd love to say was *mine*') isn't being faithful to you ('and isn't cheating with *me,* dammit'). bless your heart for having this heartache to deal with ('mmwaahahaha')" and it's poison to the relationship written on sweet flowery stationary.... another joni contrast. just a thought. what do *y'all* think? cindy, replying to a JC post! will wonders never cease!?! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:57:17 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Butterflies and lilac sprays hear hear! the whole stanza is hard for me to understand. what does joni mean by "circulate his soul around"? i never got the parts kate mentions. wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Kate > Cox > Enviado el: Jueves, 20 de Mayo de 2004 01:36 p.m. > Para: joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Butterflies and lilac sprays > > > I was just wondering if anyone could throw any light on this mystifying > lyric! "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who > just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:23:51 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: viggo NJC i was so surprised when viggo mortensen was in buenos aires a few months ago. his spanish was not only completely fluent but also the buenos-aires accented!!! i swear this is true. he was sitting at the next table in a restaurant and he sounded just like someone from my neighborhood. where is he from? wally ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:28:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays/now NJC - --- Kate Cox wrote: > Do > you like For The Roses, Em? Actually, I don't know. I had it on vinyl, used when I bought it, and it was so crummy I had to get rid of it in my last purge. I'm thinking there were a couple of songs I'd listen to (semi-hits?)..before I began to listen to JM more in depth. So I need to get it on CD. MUCH to my irritation, I ordered STAS twice..wish one of those were FTR. Ah well, next time. Will give my spare STAS to my mom. HOSL arrived yesterday but I haven't listened yet. DJRD arrived, but I'm still chewing on it and can't imagine trying to swallow yet. Still needs more chewing. :) Looking forward to FTR sometime. Em Em Have you received those ones you ordered > yet? > Hope you like them if so. Love Kate > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Have more fun with your phone - download ringtones, logos, > screensavers, > games & more. Click here to begin! ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:28:29 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Re: butterflies and lilac sprays Cindy wrote:"stationary with butterflies and lilac sprays (a buch of lilacs)printed on it.or that's what i've always imagined....and it's poison to the relationship written on sweet flowery stationary....another joni contrast." Buck wrote:"I intrepret the "butterflies and lilac sprays" line as a reference to stationary. It seemed like all the women I dated/corresponded with had "expressive" stationary. You can even have "personalized" stationary in e-mail, now. Now the second bit: "finely tuned like women..." always seemed to me to be an expression about an obsessive attention to detail...i.e., no stone left unturned to achieve maximum performance...whether it's personal or professional. God, but she is SO good!" Now how could I have missed the obvious like that, stationary-wise?! Maybe I'm always ready for Joni to be more complicated than she really is. Buck, I think you must be absolutely right about the second bit, but I still don't understand why 'the caressing rub of motors' follows the 'red ribbon runner'...Oh maybe the seductive quality of fame, how he will now get to ride everywhere in a limo that massages his ego, like the perfect 'finely-tuned' woman. You are right! She is SO SO good! Wally wrote:the whole stanza is hard for me to understand. what does joni mean by "circulate his soul around"? i never got the parts kate mentions. Glad to know I'm not the only one... but I do have some thoughts on 'circulate his soul around'. This young guy (could be JT or a comparison) is a talented, sensitive young man trapped in a soulless job. "In some office sits a poet and he trembles as he sings". He doesn't fit in, he is too intelligent, deep and emotional. This special person is contrasted to the "some guy" who he asks to circulate his soul around. "Some guy" is no-one special (would Joni be that harsh though?). His request to "some guy" completely sums up his situation, he is trying to spread love and understanding in a situation where people have been ground into the floor by meaningless work and pointless goals. Yet he will probably be ridiculed for this inappropriate request. This fits in with the later line, when Joni tries to remind JT of who and what he used to be, tries to get him to connect it with who he is now. "Remember the days when you used to sit and make up your tunes for love and pour your simple sorrow to the soundhole on your knee". On the other hand "asks some guy to circulate his soul around" could be a desperate attempt to become famous. Oh, I've just seen this from a completely different point of view! JT is in the office of a RECORD COMPANY, trying to get a deal, sitting in front of the manager, nervous and brimming with soul, begging for the chance to get famous. Actually that seems a lot more likely. Thanks for getting me to think about that one, it's wierd how you have a picture in your head for every line, and after a while you don't question it. Love Kate - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:35:54 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: Nader & Kucinich NJC Kucinich is still fighting the fight, and from what I was told recently it may hurt his political future. Long time listers will remember Michael Yarlborough. He came down to NYC for the performance by the fabulous New York Metro Mass Choir to hear our own Kay Ashley and Patrick Leader, as did I. When speaking with him about his former boss (Michael worked for Kucinich before heading off the list to go off to college) he said that there was concern that Kucinich's continued campaign may make him enough enemies to jeopardize his chances for reelection - and that his region needs a Kucinich. That was food for thought - is this more of the same hubris that Nader is accused of, or great courage that says "politics be dammed, I'm doing what's right?" I wonder. - -----Original Message----- From: kate@katebennett.com [mailto:kate@katebennett.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:26 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #232 >I don't care about Nader -- I'd much rather support Camejo if he would run for the Greens, or perhaps Kucinich if he would break with the Democratic Party --< i have been in the room when kucinich was asked why he isn't running green... he is adamant about staying with the democratic party...bascially because at this point in time its the only realistic way to make a vote count... he is working from within to try & change the democratic party which is why he is still in the race... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:42:23 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: viggo NJC Here's your answer, Wally: Born in New York to a Danish father and an American mother, Mortensen spent the early part of his childhood in Manhattan. His family traveled a great deal and he spent several years living in Venezuela, Argentina and Denmark. I can assure you that Ashara is NOT THE ONLY ONE who has instantly been made jealous of you. Green is not my best color! - -----Original Message----- From: Wally Kairuz [mailto:wallykai@fibertel.com.ar] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:24 PM To: AsharaJM@aol.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: viggo NJC i was so surprised when viggo mortensen was in buenos aires a few months ago. his spanish was not only completely fluent but also the buenos-aires accented!!! i swear this is true. he was sitting at the next table in a restaurant and he sounded just like someone from my neighborhood. where is he from? wally ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:59:21 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: Re: Nader & Kucinich NJC Maggie McNally wrote: Kucinich is still fighting the fight, and from what I was told recently it may hurt his political future...That was food for thought - is this more of the same hubris that Nader is accused of, or great courage that says "politics be dammed, I'm doing what's right?" I wonder. i initially supported kucinich because i liked his message... but i voted kerry cuz i felt he was the one to beat bush & that is my priority... i was on a musician list for kucinich where the organizer started sending emails about how we needed radical change so maybe 4 more years of bush would then somehow wake us up to having someone like kucinich which i found insane... she seemed to have the attitude that the dem party better listen to them or they'd pull their support... she was treating kucinich like some kind of messiah which was alarming & irrational... all this was HER opinion not kucinich's... but it turned me off because it was so out of sinc with how many supporters kucinich actually had... i didn't hear the dean folks demanding a voice like this & they had much much stronger numbers... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:59:33 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Nader & Kucinich NJC Even after Kucinich pulled out because Kerry was a clear winner, he fulfilled his campaign appearances here in Florida. I went to see him speak here and 19 people showed up. Even though I felt terrible he got up and spoke like there were 1000 there. He is a man of true class and courage. Jerry > Kucinich is still fighting the fight, and from what I was told recently it may > hurt his political future. Long time listers will remember Michael > Yarlborough. He came down to NYC for the performance by the fabulous New York > Metro Mass Choir to hear our own Kay Ashley and Patrick Leader, as did I. > When speaking with him about his former boss (Michael worked for Kucinich > before heading off the list to go off to college) he said that there was > concern that Kucinich's continued campaign may make him enough enemies to > jeopardize his chances for reelection - and that his region needs a Kucinich. > That was food for thought - is this more of the same hubris that Nader is > accused of, or great courage that says "politics be dammed, I'm doing what's > right?" I wonder. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:07:08 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: RE: Butterflies and lilac sprays <> can i try this one, too, since i'm on a JC roll? the whole stanza: "In some office sits a poet And he trembles as he sings And he asks some guy To circulate his soul around" by putting his music out into the world (instead of playing for the sound hole and his knee, as before), he's putting his deepest feelings/thoughts/emotions on display for his audiences (and for the record company execs). and if that music is recorded and sold, he's literally selling his soul, right? cindy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:13:46 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC Does anyone else have this problem?! Love Kate Yes Kate, i've lived together with 3 men over the last 25 or so years and they all hated Joni. In fact one seemed to hate any kind of music i loved. Personally i always thought it was a control thing - if they could take away something that made me happy without them, then they had the upper hand emotionally. Maybe it's just me thinking that way, but i really don't see why my listening to a particular type of music should be so infuriating ya know?? db This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:21:25 -0400 From: "Joseph S.E. Palis" Subject: Re: viggo NJC Interesting post! The first film I saw Viggo in was in the Spanish film "Gimlet" and although I am not sure what regional accent he used there but his Spanish is inch-perfect. Looks like there is more to this guy than being Aragorn. I like him in "GI Jane" and "Portrait of a Lady" but hated him in the recent "Hidalgo" and the Van Sant frame-by-frame remake of "Psycho". J Quoting Wally Kairuz : > i was so surprised when viggo mortensen was in buenos aires a few > months > ago. his spanish was not only completely fluent but also the > buenos-aires > accented!!! i swear this is true. he was sitting at the next table in > a > restaurant and he sounded just like someone from my neighborhood. > where is he from? > wally > Joseph S.E. Palis Department of Geography University of North Carolina Saunders Hall, CB 3220 Chapel Hill, N.C. 27599-3220 palis@email.unc.edu joepalis@yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:34:06 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC I wrote:"Does anyone else have this problem?!" And Diana wrote:"Yes Kate, i've lived together with 3 men over the last 25 or so years and they all hated Joni. In fact one seemed to hate any kind of music i loved. Personally i always thought it was a control thing - if they could take away something that made me happy without them, then they had the upper hand emotionally. Maybe it's just me thinking that way, but i really don't see why my listening to a particular type of music should be so infuriating ya know??" I don't like to think this about my boyfriend but deep down I do think it's something like that! Jealousy that someone else could be so important to me. Insecurity about my getting so close to the music and lyrics of such a strong, powerful, independent woman. She might lead me astray, y'know, what with all her "Sharon, I LEFT my man"s and whatnot. Also, I hate to say this, but I think sexism is involved too. My boyfriend said to me quite recently, "You have to admit there have been more influential and successful men than women in music and literature and blah blah blah". I couldn't BELIEVE he would miss the point that this is because women have been kept down in various overt and subtle ways for millennia, and are only just beginning to redress the balance. But there you go, "You and me we're like America and Russia, we're always keeping score, we're always balancing the power, and that can get to be a cold, cold war". (He hates NOTHING MORE than my quoting Joni lyrics!!!) Anyway I'm glad to know you know how I feel, and glad to know you think it is the blokes' problem and not ours! Love Kate - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Have more fun with your phone - download ringtones, logos, screensavers, games & more. Click here to begin! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:35:02 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC sorry, Donna not Diana! :-) >From: "Donna Binkley" >To: , >Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC >Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:13:46 -0500 > >Does anyone else have >this problem?! Love Kate > > >Yes Kate, i've lived together with 3 men over the last 25 or so years >and they all hated Joni. In fact one seemed to hate any kind of music i >loved. Personally i always thought it was a control thing - if they >could take away something that made me happy without them, then they had >the upper hand emotionally. Maybe it's just me thinking that way, but i >really don't see why my listening to a particular type of music should >be so infuriating ya know?? > >db > > >This message has been scanned by the E250. > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Have more fun with your phone - download ringtones, logos, screensavers, games & more. Click here to begin! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:39:29 -0500 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC Sounds like you've been hanging around with the wrong men. I've been a Joni Mitchell fan for over 30 years myself. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:53:57 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC I couldn't agree more David - and i've been a fan 30 years as well, you really should check out Jonifest. It's a whole lotta joni! db >>> David Sadowski 5/20/2004 1:39:29 PM >>> Sounds like you've been hanging around with the wrong men. I've been a Joni Mitchell fan for over 30 years myself. This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:04:14 -0600 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC ANOTHER interesting thread! Lemmee give ya an unsolicited male POV... A couple of days ago I added a tag line to one of my posts to the effect of "bp, who likes strong women even though they're hip to my tricks" To further amplify: Joni was a test of sorts for me when I asked the question "how deep should I let this go?" in my relationships. To be brief: I'd play Blue or FTR for my beloved...sometimes as background, other times as a "you have to listen to this" kinda thing. If they had never heard Joni and were interested, there were possibilities. If they were Joni-istas, it was almost a done deal. Not THE acid test, by any means, but I can truthfully say I was never deeply involved with any woman who didn't love or, at the very least, appreciate, Ms. Mitchell. And I was burned by a couple of Joni-haters. So...all y'all beware. Best Regards, bp Kate C quoted Donna and further wrote: > I wrote:"Does anyone else have > > this problem?!" > > And Diana wrote:"Yes Kate, i've lived together with 3 men over the last > 25 or so years and they all hated Joni. In fact one seemed to hate any > kind of music i loved. Personally i always thought it was a control > thing - if they could take away something that made me happy without > them, then they had the upper hand emotionally. Maybe it's just me > thinking that way, but i really don't see why my listening to a > particular type of music should be so infuriating ya know??" > > I don't like to think this about my boyfriend but deep down I do think > it's something like that! Jealousy that someone else could be so > important to me. Insecurity about my getting so close to the music and > lyrics of such a strong, powerful, independent woman. She might lead me > astray, y'know, what with all her "Sharon, I LEFT my man"s and whatnot. > Also, I hate to say this, but I think sexism is involved too. My > boyfriend said to me quite recently, "You have to admit there have been > more influential and successful men than women in music and literature > and blah blah blah". I couldn't BELIEVE he would miss the point that this > is because women have been kept down in various overt and subtle ways for > millennia, and are only just beginning to redress the balance. But there > you go, "You and me we're like America and Russia, we're always keeping > score, we're always balancing the power, and that can get to be a cold, > cold war". (He hates NOTHING MORE than my quoting Joni lyrics!!!) Anyway > I'm glad to know you know how I feel, and glad to know you think it is > the blokes' problem and not ours! Love Kate > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Have more fun with your phone - download ringtones, logos, screensavers, > games & more. Click here to begin! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:37:35 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: the anti-Joni partner NJC Joni-haters - they can't be trusted I tell you! db >>> "Norman Pennington" 5/20/2004 2:04:14 PM >>> ANOTHER interesting thread! Lemmee give ya an unsolicited male POV... A couple of days ago I added a tag line to one of my posts to the effect of "bp, who likes strong women even though they're hip to my tricks" To further amplify: Joni was a test of sorts for me when I asked the question "how deep should I let this go?" in my relationships. To be brief: I'd play Blue or FTR for my beloved...sometimes as background, other times as a "you have to listen to this" kinda thing. If they had never heard Joni and were interested, there were possibilities. If they were Joni-istas, it was almost a done deal. Not THE acid test, by any means, but I can truthfully say I was never deeply involved with any woman who didn't love or, at the very least, appreciate, Ms. Mitchell. And I was burned by a couple of Joni-haters. So...all y'all beware. Best Regards, bp Kate C quoted Donna and further wrote: > I wrote:"Does anyone else have > > this problem?!" > > And Diana wrote:"Yes Kate, i've lived together with 3 men over the last > 25 or so years and they all hated Joni. In fact one seemed to hate any > kind of music i loved. Personally i always thought it was a control > thing - if they could take away something that made me happy without > them, then they had the upper hand emotionally. Maybe it's just me > thinking that way, but i really don't see why my listening to a > particular type of music should be so infuriating ya know??" > > I don't like to think this about my boyfriend but deep down I do think > it's something like that! Jealousy that someone else could be so > important to me. Insecurity about my getting so close to the music and > lyrics of such a strong, powerful, independent woman. She might lead me > astray, y'know, what with all her "Sharon, I LEFT my man"s and whatnot. > Also, I hate to say this, but I think sexism is involved too. My > boyfriend said to me quite recently, "You have to admit there have been > more influential and successful men than women in music and literature > and blah blah blah". I couldn't BELIEVE he would miss the point that this > is because women have been kept down in various overt and subtle ways for > millennia, and are only just beginning to redress the balance. But there > you go, "You and me we're like America and Russia, we're always keeping > score, we're always balancing the power, and that can get to be a cold, > cold war". (He hates NOTHING MORE than my quoting Joni lyrics!!!) Anyway > I'm glad to know you know how I feel, and glad to know you think it is > the blokes' problem and not ours! Love Kate > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Have more fun with your phone - download ringtones, logos, screensavers, > games & more. Click here to begin! This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #233 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)