From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #232 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, May 20 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 232 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: kerry njc [colin ] RE: kerry njc ["Maggie McNally" ] Re: kerry njc [Em ] New "old" Laura Nyro [JLS ] Re: kerry njc ["Paul Mepschen" ] kerry njc [kate@katebennett.com] Abuse-NJC ["Suzanne MarcAurele" ] Joni Covers vol 11-20 ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: kerry njc [Randy Remote ] Re: Aging, NJC [LCStanley7@aol.com] Today's Library Links: May 20 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Republican Convention Schedule NJC [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:00:02 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: kerry njc >It's easier to be idealistic when one doesn't live directly with the >results. > I am not interested in this particualr round of fighting, but wnated to comment on the above sentence. To me, it is a false statement. The whole world lives directly with the results of USA elections. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 18:00:29 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: kerry njc Thank you, Vince, for your eloquence - if not for your spelling and punctuation. I was just reading the back-and-forth about "no difference" and about Nader, and I have to just say that I know that there is a very big difference between the two major parties. Does not mean that people shouldn't choose to run or vote as Independents, Greens and so on, but in our world the reality is that these two major parties control the process. I live in the real world, not the "wish is was so" world, and so must look to our presumptive Democratic candidate to make my country, and (by extension due to the significance of the role we play in the global arena - the world) a better place. Of course the first thing I thought of was the Supreme Court. As a woman I look at reproductive choice and control over my body as a key issue, and I can assure you that the difference between the two parties is HUGE. Republicans want to force Christianity down my throat, Democrats allow for different values, freedom of speech and freedom of movement. Republican policy-makers talk the talk about families and children, then refuse to walk the walk by funding programs to support said families and children. Oh, I could go on and on but my ride is here and I rather doubt I'm going to change anyone's mind about this. But I agree with those who say DO SOMETHING if you care enough to desire change, but don't put your heads in the sand and think by wishing and hoping the situation in the US and the world will get better. Maggie - -----Original Message----- From: Lavieri, Vince [185776] [mailto:revrvl@chartermi.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:44 PM To: Paul Mepschen; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: kerry njc it was written: "a vote for kerry is basically a vote for four more years the way things are as well." to which i reply: total bullshit. There will be three Supreme Court justices positions up next year and does anyone conceivably beleive that Bush and Kerry will nominate the same persons? Rehnquist is stepping down and Bush has long championed Justice Scalia. Chief Justice Scalia. ANyone want to say that Kerry will promote Scalia as Bush will? A constitutional amendment against gays. Bush. Favors. Kerry does not. Make your choice. The actual invasion of Iraq and the conduct once there - anyone want to say that there was no difference between the candidates in 2000 or 2004? The environment. Bush and Kerry the same? I am tired of "I am so superior I am above it all you are all the same" people. What a wonderful disconnect from the real world. Botha. Mandela. All the same. I am chair of my county's Democratic party. I was just at the major state event last Saturday and spoke with Senators Stabenow and Levin, Representative Gephardt, and Governor Granholm, people that I have worked with for years. The policy differences between the 2 parties is huge. It is a chasm. To suggest that we as Democrats are the same as Republicans is not only pure bullshit, it is a total disconnect from reality and the historical record. I have heard the oh so cute line that Clinton was the best republican president ever. So glib, so ha ha funny. So wrong. There were things that Clintgon did that I was very opposed to and I know where he veered right when I wouldn't have but the total package, the total 8 years - please don;t insult me to say that a Bush and Dole presidency would ahve yielded the same things as a Clinton presidency. What the hell has GW bewen rolling back for the last 3 years if not all the gains we made under Clinton. Bush's administration just announced that for an endangered specieis of fish out west, there are going to count farm fish as wild fish so they can stop the environmental-endangered species controls. Tell me you think a Democratic adminsitartion woulld do that. That si one small issue. Take it up larger and larger and larger. Before I went online I was at our local party office with a bunch of people working furiously to get rid of our Republican congressman and Bush. What an insult to these people that you say that they are nothing more than Republicans. The party is far from perfect. The Democratic party should have differing stances in my opinion than where it is. I am working for change from within, where it will happen. Yet night after night I sit down with a lot of folks out here who bring all kinds of feelings and attitudes and opinions on all kinds of issues and we have got to have a place where we can find some commoin ground and make change happen. There is nothing like the reality check of sitting with 5-20 different people every night and talking about issues. Talking about war. Talking about the economy. Talking about justice. This will surprise many but one of the reasons we are doing so well is that I say nothing, I sit back and listen to what people feel, what they think, what they want me to know as chair of our party out here, no matter side of the fence they are on. The reality is that we have to operate on a dual track. I have my visions of what I wish to be and I woirk towards those. But it is a matter of reaching people with that vision - which means getting out and working with people - and taking the steps that we need to take one step at a time or two if we can to get to where we want to go. It takes time. Electibility is an issue. There are a lot of folks out there who see things very differently. A lot of conversation has to happen. If we work, and organize, and work, and organize, and work, and organize, and work, and organise, change will happen. It has and will continue to. But please do not insult the good folk that I work with and the candidates we support and the elected officials that I know andf say that we are all the same ands we make no difference. Anyone who cannot see the difference between a Kerry and a Bush is someone with serious perception issues. Not a dime's worth of diffwerence between the parties- George Wallace, 1968. Ralph Nader, now. Both demogagues and both wrong and both pushing their own damn selves. hey Ralph, how come you never ever found another canditate to endorse in any elction? For Nader it is always Nader or no one. Now there is someone who's got some self-glory issues happening. Ralph Nader has done some good things. In the past. And maybe in the future. But not in this election. I ahve listened to that man speak at length this year many times and it always comes back to being about Ralph Nader. That dude has got some real issues about himself. I apologise for sapelling and typing errors, where I am at does not have spell check. I am going back next door to the campaign office and tell these people that they are Republicans in drag working to elect Bush by working for Kerry cuz it is all the same thing. I wish some of you would say that to these people to their face. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:20:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: kerry njc Vince! thank you for that passionate and intelligent post, that voiced things I've been feeling all afternoon, but was not able come up with words for. thank you, Em yay! - --- "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" wrote: > it was written: > > "a vote for kerry is basically a vote for four more years > the way things are as > well." > > > to which i reply: total bullshit. > > There will be three Supreme Court justices positions up > next year and does anyone conceivably beleive that Bush and > Kerry will nominate the same persons? ...snip... ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 18:48:42 -0400 From: JLS Subject: New "old" Laura Nyro Hey you JoniFreaks, Nyrogrl here from under the borderline....You know I keep my second favorite list updated as I do my first. Laura lists get joni info and Joni Gets Laura. New Laura Nyro 1971 Fillmore East Show being released Mid June. Its Laura and a Piano, the way we adored her. All of us, mystified at long haired goddess, sauntering out onto the stage, the audience going wild, then....the dead pan silence when she would reach out and touch the keys.....ahhhhh http://app2.sonymusic.com/SMOTranslator/0,,type=Page$$$disc=sid_092493$$$t=legacy%252fselect,00.html - -- Jody L. Serkes ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 02:19:12 +0200 From: "Paul Mepschen" Subject: Re: kerry njc how democratic of you, this kind of respons, Vince -- there's obviously not much room for dissent in your mind. jump up and down when you hear the word Kerry and you are the good guy in Vince's book. anyway, I do think there's a big difference between grassroots Democrats and status quo politicians like Kerry-- I feel that progressive Democrats should link up with others in building an alternative for the two party system -- that's what this is about. You say the party isn't perfect -- I say it is lost. And I say that all the energy in trying to safe the party for progressive, grassroots politics could be directed in building that alternative. I don't care about Nader -- I'd much rather support Camejo if he would run for the Greens, or perhaps Kucinich if he would break with the Democratic Party -- Vince said: >I wish some of you would say that to these people to their face. Well, that's bullshit. I AM telling it to your face. And please stop the retoric about the poor struggling Democrats - you sound like you're in the French underground during WW2. Where were you when your lovely mister Clinton bombed Iraq and Belgrade to pieces during the nineties? And who is insulting who anyway? You compare Kerry to Mandela. Talking about the historical record. To suggest that the difference between Republicans and Democrats is like the difference between pro-apartheid parties and the people in the struggle is simply pervers. paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:37:51 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: kerry njc re: voting my conscience- last election i discovered my conscience told me that i needed to vote to keep bush out of the white house... so i voted for gore... we would not be in iraq with a gore administration nor would we have such sweeping attacks on the environment & talk of a nuclear buildup etc etc etc ... we would not have destroyed such much international goodwill if it were not for this arrogant ignorant administration... our election system is seriously flawed... all the business money that goes towards the candidates & the done in return is a far from a democracy... however this administration is radically dangerous & the dems do not have the same right wing christian outlook or the imperialist ongoing war PNAC agenda... four more years of this instanity could destroy this planet... timing is everything & the timing to vote third party is NOT in 2004... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:38:55 -0400 From: "Suzanne MarcAurele" Subject: Abuse-NJC "Those critical voices that live rent free in our heads can be evicted" - brave sounding words but in reality some of us know that once plagued by the ignorance of loved ones - the longer the exposure the less likely to be rid of their ghosts - they migrate from voices inside one's head to a plethora of pains, anxieties abuse by someone later in life will reinforce the old markers vicious life? Who functions off the written line S. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 03:05:21 +0200 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Joni Covers vol 11-20 Hi Emiliano If not too late may I please get the next bunch? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 18:59:27 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: kerry njc Paul Mepschen wrote: > I know some people feel it's none of my business because I'm dutch, but I > feel anything happening in the states concerns us as well -- Yes it does-you are closer to the Middle East than we are > Then what would be so different about him? Michael Moore pointed out > eloquently in Stupid White Men how Clinton was the best republican president > the US had ever had -- I think that is true in a lot of ways-he did things like throw millions of poor children off welfare that the real Republicans only had wet dreams about... > Kerry is pretty much to the right of Bill Clinton even -- I don't see him > make a difference. Kerry voted for the Iraq invasion, for the Patriot Act. Either he agreed with Bush or showed no spine. I respect him for being one of the first Vietnam protesters, but that was a long time ago. > Of course, I prefer Kerry over Bush, but I think the US > is being held captive by a two parties with similar political platforms, That's true, too. The choice is, do you want to eat 4 quarts of shit, or 5 quarts of shit? That is our sad choice. But I do not agree with Nader that there is NO difference between the parties. The damage Bush has done domestically and internationally is monumental. I will vote for Kerry to get rid of Bush, but he is a carreer polititian who basically represents no real change. Same as Clinton, except that Clinton pretended to represent change, but it was a sham. At least Kerry does not seem to be doing that. However, playing the crowded middle may cost him the election. > and > the US Left by an allegience to the Democrats that has little to do with > reality anymore -- weren't Clinton's politics destructiv? There are millions on the left who do not feel even the slightest connection with the Democratic Party. If the Democrats were to find their spine, then maybe the last election wouldn't have been essentially a tie. Blame it on Nader! Until we get big money out of the political system, the only way to get elected will be to play to their tune. It may appear as though we have a democracy, but it is the choice between which candidate will represent big business. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:31:16 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Aging, NJC In a message dated 5/19/04 1:05:00 PM Central Daylight Time, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: I said njothing about getting older not having it's benefits-sprritually and emotionally it definately does(if one works at it). however, the physical limitations and infirmities are not something to jump up and down with joy about. I see my firends falling apart, some of them painfully. I am aware of my own body changes, my partner's changes etc denial of the changes age causes doesn't stop those changes. Hi Colin, For sure! You are right on my friend. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 02:09:46 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: May 20 On May 20 the following articles were published: 1998: "Dylan + Morrison + Mitchell = 1 riveting show" - Contra Costa Times (Review - Concert, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=336 1998: "Dylan takes audience on a tour through rock 'n' roll history" - San Jose Mercury News (Review - Concert, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=335 1998: "For this fan, 75-minute set is pure ecstasy" - San Jose Mercury News (Review - Concert, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=334 1998: "Happy Van, Jazzy Joni, Rockin' Bob" - Seattle Weekly (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=373 1999: "Jazz LP, Concert Tour in Joni Mitchell's future" - Daily News of Los Angeles (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=905 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 02:18:14 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Republican Convention Schedule NJC Subject: Republican Convention Opening Night Schedule REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE CONVENTION SCHEDULE New York, NY 6:00 PM Opening Prayer led by the Reverend Jerry Fallwell 6:30 PM Pledge of Allegiance 6:35 PM Burning of Bill of Rights (excluding 2nd amendment) 6:45 PM Salute to the Coalition of the Willing 6:46 PM Seminar #1: Iraq Stratergies-Voodoo/DooDoo WMD 7:30 PM First Presidential Beer Bong 7:35 PM Serve Freedom Fries 7:40 PM EPA Address #1: Mercury-It's what's for dinner! 8:00 PM Vote on which country to invade next 8:10 PM Call EMTs to revive Rush Limbaugh 8:15 PM John Ashcroft Lecture: The Homos are after your Children!! 8:30 PM Round table discussion on reproductive rights (MEN only) 8:50 PM Seminar #2 Corporations: The Government of the Future 9:00 PM Condi Rice sings "Can't Help Lovin' Dat Man" 9:05 PM Second Presidential Beer Bong 9:10 PM EPA Address #2 -- Trees: The Real Cause of Forest Fires 9:30 PM Break for secret meetings 10:00 PM Second prayer led by Cal Thomas 10:15 PM Lecture by Karl Rove: Doublespeak made easy 10:30 PM Rumsfeld demonstration of how to squint and talk macho 10:35 PM Bush demonstration of trademark "deer in headlights" stare 10:40 PM John Ashcroft demonstrates new mandatory Kevlar chastity belt 10:45 PM Clarence Thomas reads list of black republicans 10:46 PM Third Presidential Beer Bong 10:50 PM Seminar #3 Education: A Drain on our Nation's Economy 11:10 PM Hilary Clinton Piqata 11:20 PM Second Lecture by John Ashcroft: Evolutionists: The Dangerous New Cult 11:30 PM Call EMTs to revive Rush Limbaugh again 11:35 PM Blame Clinton 11:40 PM Laura serves milk and cookies 11:50 PM Closing Prayer led by Jesus Himself 12: 00 PM Nomination of George W. Bush as Holy Supreme Planetary Overlord ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #232 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)