From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #226 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, May 17 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 226 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- njc My Dinner with... [vince ] Re: MOrrisey NJC [colin ] VOTE FOR 2004 JONI LOGO!!!!!!!! [Claud9 ] Re: Madeleine Peyroux NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] NJC Re: VOTE FOR 2004 JONI LOGO!!!!!!!! NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni Covers Tree ["Laurent Olszer" ] Born in the wrong time njc ["Kate Cox" ] Joni songs for kids [LCStanley7@aol.com] oliver (NJC) [Bruce Kimerer ] Miles Davis [Dflahm@aol.com] Loretta Lynn's new one... [Harry83house@aol.com] Re: Oliver, njc ["Kate Bennett" ] New album from Fred Simon? njc ["Les Irvin" ] Re: oliver (NJC) ["Joseph S.E. Palis" ] The future in 'No Apologies VLJC ["Russell Bowden" ] Re: lovemaking music, not [Michael Paz ] Re: Shameless self promotion (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: meeting patty griffin * impossible dream tour NJC [Michael Paz ] Re: NJC maggie's comment [Randy Remote ] Today's Library Links: May 17 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 03:31:28 -0400 From: vince Subject: njc My Dinner with... I owe some people some personal emails for their kind words from last week over the murder of my former foster care client mother Amy and my worries for her son Steven. I will respond personally, forgive my slowness. It has been a very busy week with political matters ending Saturday night (it is now Sunday morning) where I was a guest at the biggest Democratic event in Michigan. By whatever quirk, I was honored as a special guest of the party for my work for the party and they put me in the front row on the dais... the seating, from right to left: US Senator Debbie Stabenow, me, another honoree, US Representative Richard Gephardt, State Party Co-Chair Mark Brewer, Co-Chair Butch Hollowell, Governor Jennifer Granholm, US Senator Carl Levin.... I must have been in 10,000 pictures tonight sitting in that group and as fucking egotistical as it sounds, I loved the whole evening... just every once to get an evening with dinner companions like that is something so incredible - I don't deserve it but I sure loved it... Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:51:10 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: MOrrisey NJC Lucy Hone wrote: > tantra-apso > wrote: > rarely have I had such a strong reaction to someone. i saw this jerk > interviewed tonight. Truly an obnoxious person who spends his time > sneering at the rest of the human race. He kept going on about 'real' he > was. Bullshit. he was absolutely full of it and so far from real. Talk > about artiface and dishonesty.... > > Oh Colin I could not agree with you more. Pretentious little > talentless shit bag were the words that sprung to mind... we had a small Eurovision get together last night and this came up-everyone agreed with us Lulu! Oh and the song we all voted for won! (tho we thought germany was good and surprised at how bad it did..Iceland as well) > but being queen lulu I would never be so vulgar as to voice them out > loud!!!!!! And the jacket was like some Butlins red coat ensemble.... > dreadful..... > > - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 14:44:36 +0200 From: Claud9 Subject: VOTE FOR 2004 JONI LOGO!!!!!!!! Time to vote for the Jonifest 2004 LOGO!!!!!!!!!! Go to: http://jonifest.com/vote.cfm All votes must be in by May 31st. Please, only one vote per person. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 08:58:32 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Madeleine Peyroux NJC In a message dated 15/05/2004 21:28:22 GMT Daylight Time, palis@email.unc.edu writes: << For fans of Madeleine Peyroux and who, like me have been waiting for her follow up to her fantastic debut "Dreamland", here's good news. Madeleine just released a new album called "Got You On MY Mind" which features Carly Simon. It has advance very very good rave reviews from Carly to Bob Telson ("Baghdad Cafe" composer) to Lynn Di Menna. >> This is indeed great news Joseph. It's seemed an interminable wait for the follow-up to that extraordinary debut. Perhaps there'll finally be a chnace to see her play live here too: the last time she was scheduled to play in London that I know of, it was cancelled at the last moment! Azeem in London NP: Beth Gibbons - Rustin Man ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:00:33 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: VOTE FOR 2004 JONI LOGO!!!!!!!! NJC Wow - another great collection, and another tough choice. Congrats to all who entered a design, I thought they were splendid. Bob, hoping for high voter turnout always ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 15:24:31 +0200 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Joni Covers Tree Hello Batch N01, volumes 1-10 is ready to be shipped from France to the next party. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 13:46:40 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Born in the wrong time njc I'm going to put my bits in italics to make this all a bit clearer, since it won't let me have paragraphs! They probably won't come up, but never mind, I tried...I wrote: > To be honest, I really feel that I > was born in the wrong time and > > both my parents have been an absolute lifeline to a time when music, and > > relationships, and culture in general werent so shallow, cynical and > > materialistic. And Bruce wrote: "I feel pretty lucky that I was a teen and young adult during the mid-to-late 60s and early 70s. I was able to evolve into an adult at the same time pop/rock music was evolving into an art form, when it was viewed as a leading edge of the cultural/societal vanguard --- breaking down walls, exploring new worlds, making something important happen.Maybe, in fact, all that 'ground breaking' responsibility for a whole generation was too much for music-making to bear. When all is said and done,they're just songs. But at the time they were something more."I think maybe you're right, it was just too much. An overload of any stimulus leads to habituation, boredom, apathy, even anger. Maybe that's why the punks felt the need to rebel the way they did in the late 1970's, to stamp on and ridicule the ethos of the 1960's. My mum said she knew it was over when she went shopping with a friend around that time, and ended up saying to her, "It looks like we're going to have to buy straight trousers!". But also I think that since the 60's, youth culture and alternative culture, although still having their roots in groups of independent-minded people, have been having their spirit sucked out of them and sold back at massively inflated prices. It has got to the point now that even the so-called 'alternative music' has manufactured stars, Barbie dolls in combat trousers and thick eyeliner (I'm thinking Avril Lavigne). I finally listened to TTT last night, and it just made me feel so sad, it made me realise why Joni doesn't want to be a part of this anymore. She is so estranged and alienated, the 'Tiger Tiger Burning Bright' versus the Nice Kitty Kitties. There is no space for artistic freedom or genuine creativity, unless by some magical fluke it happens to coincide with whatever is fashionable in the fifteen-minute slot in which it finds itself. Bruce: This was all a part of my time. I'm happy I was able to be there. A simple twist of fate. Kate, I'm glad you can appreciate all this. But it also kinda makes me sad that you feel born out of time. Although I don't enjoy the music my nephews like, I do enjoy the fact they are relishing their own cultural moment. It's a moment that belongs to them. It is not meant for me, and that's the way it should be. If I was their age, I hope I would be a discerning listener - -- being able to differentiate between the very best hip-hop and the drek, the finest rap/metal and the worst, who has real talent and who's a pretender. Though it all sounds the same to me, I kn ow that that cannot be the case. Just as my parents could not hear any difference between the Doors and Iron Butterfly (don't get on my case Butterfly fans). The thing is, to me, it does all sound the same (apart from metal). I wish I had a cultural moment to belong to, a cutting edge I could feel I was living on, but I just can't fake it. You have a lot more sympathy with these artists than I do: I would argue that none of them have any talent! In terms of metal, I do feel I can tell the talented from the fake, but it is only my solitary opinion, completely cut off from the rest of my generation and what they believe in. I don't know why I am like it but I just always have been. Bruce: Then again, maybe these two eras are totally different. Maybe commercial demands have changed the nature of quality. Maybe media overload has destroyed attention spans and the ability to listen. Maybe anger has become the primary mode of expression. I guess time will tell.I guess it will. The last time synthetic music became too overbearing & threatened to turn us all into robots, Nirvana came along, and who could have predicted that? Unfortunately I missed out on that one too (I was 12 when Kurt Cobain died) although I love Nirvana. Yet it seems that whenever a band with a message and a heart manage to tunnel their way out of the underground, all that happens is that they spawn a thousand imitators, so there is never a 'scene' like there was in the 60's, when artists referenced and fed off each other without simply mimicking. I do think commercial demands have changed the nature of quality: successful artists are ones like Madonna, who can adapt herself to every passing trend, or ones who ride the bandwagon til the end of the line then live off the royalties for the rest of their lives. Anyway, I don't want to rant too much! You said in an earlier post that you hoped you would be on the cutting edge if you were in your twenties today, and that made me realise how for so many people it is a crucial part of being young: to belong to the moment, to be identified by one's peers. I think in the 60's I would have loved to have been that way, but it really doesn't bother me that i'm not today, because there is nothing I want to identify myself with. Really, so much of what there is to learn about life is eternal and universal, and repeats itself throughout history, so it doesn't really matter if a person can't belong in their time, because that time is only something fleeting. When I listen to Joni, I don't hear a recording 30 years old, I hear the vitality of a young woman, I hear her hopes, her pain, her regrets, her conflicts. These are things that everyone goes through, things that everyone has to learn about. I know one girl who listens to stuff like Fat Boy Slim. When she was 21, she said to me, "I've just realised there's two sides to every story". Everyone gets there in the end, we're just lucky to have these great artists playing in our heads, guiding us on the way! Love Kate - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get a FREE connection, FREE modem and one month's FREE line rental, plus a US or European flight when you sign up for BT Broadband! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:58:33 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Joni songs for kids An aunt wrote: I have got my sister's 3 year old twins singing this! (Circle Game) . . i usually remember to sing this to them when they are on the swing set. Do they like Both Sides Now? If I had to pick an album of Joni's for kids, it would be Clouds. When I give a Joni album to a child, this is the one I usually give. I have a six year old who is very good at singing. He absolutely loves Both Sides Now and sings it with me which touches my heart in a very special way. He has perfect pitch, can hold a note, and really puts his heart into singing. Swinging... I love to swing and sing Joni songs!... and hang my head way back to see upside down so I can look at life from both sides now and then. Have to go to a park though where they have swings for adults. My swing song choice is In France They Kiss on Main Street. "I said take me to the swing, do you want to swing? I love to swing!" Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:19:27 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: oliver (NJC) Oliver has a great score and, goes without saying, a great story. From what I understand, Lionel Bart got kind of drugged out in the late 60s and never was able to get it together to write another show. Maybe others here know the facts. I think its kinda underrated and one of those shows that gets sorta forgotten about. The movie, good too, was was an anachronism for its time, 1968, a very old fashioned big movie musical in the age of Easy Rider and Bonnie and Clyde. When it won Best Picture I think its old-fashionedness hurt its reputation and subsequent place in musical history. I saw a production in London in 1995 or 1997 that was terrific but it never came to Broadway. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:23:14 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Miles Davis I'm always aware of Miles' original context: he was a bebop trumpet player who didn't have the pyrotechnical ability of Dizzy Gillespie and found another way to be heard. Of interest are his early recordings with Charlie Parker, especially the session of 3/28/46 ( "Moose the Mooche," "Ornithology" and others.) To me (italics unintended but I dunno how to get rid of them) the center of his greatness is the quintet with John Coltrane, Red Garland Paul Chambers & Philly Joe Jones. The original titles for the sessions on the Prestige label were COOKIN', RELAXIN' and WORKIN' and STEAMIN'. Lahm, bein' old-school Also on Prestige, the fascinating BAGS' GROOVE session of-I think 12/24/54 with Milt Jackson, Thelonious Monk, Percy Heath and Kenny Clarke. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:35:29 EDT From: Harry83house@aol.com Subject: Loretta Lynn's new one... Hey, Bob! Sorry I've been out of the loop lately. Busy. I purchased Loretta's new CD and it is a wonder. Her voice sounds so strong and the production and arrangements by Jack White... phenomenal. I love the track "Little Red Shoes" where Loretta just tells a story while the band plays. It got me to thinking...Joni is such a fascinating story teller. She could put out a whole album of stories, though I doubt she'd do it. However, if she ever puts out her autobiography(ies), maybe she'll record one of those "books-on-tape"...as read by the author, like Katharine Hepburn did. Hope all is well, buddy. Harry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:33:07 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Oliver, njc Funny I recently rented that movie & was so disappointed! I guess because I had seen the play on broadway when I was a kid & it was pure magic for me... The movie really messed with the plot & changed the emphasis on certain characters... In the play the artful dodger was the main character... I don't remember him at all in the movie... Yes the music is beautiful! I knew all the songs as a kid! lol Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 12:22:09 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: New album from Fred Simon? njc Rumor has it that JMDL member Fred Simon has recorded a new album with Paul McCandless and Steve Rodby. Hey Fred... details please?? Les NP - PHC 30th Anniversary show ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:26:40 -0400 From: "Joseph S.E. Palis" Subject: Re: oliver (NJC) I saw "Oliver" in the 70s and I didn't know it is a musical version of Dickens' "Oliver Twist." I quite forgot the whole movie but I remembered "Where is Love" very well and Mark Lester who later appeared in this movie ("Witness"? was it?) where he played Ziggy to Susan George's Pippa. As far as I know, "Oliver" was the last musical to win the Oscar for Best Picture until last year's "Chicago" sort of made musicals "in" again. I heard that the musical "Phantom of the Opera" is being made into a film, same with "Rent" -- both musicals I haven't watched yet. Joseph (who watched "Hit the Deck" in this morning's TCM -- was it Lena Horne?) Quoting Bruce Kimerer : > Oliver has a great score and, goes without saying, a great story. > From what > I understand, Lionel Bart got kind of drugged out in the late 60s and > never > was able to get it together to write another show. Maybe others here > know > the facts. > > I think its kinda underrated and one of those shows that gets sorta > forgotten about. The movie, good too, was was an anachronism for its > time, > 1968, a very old fashioned big movie musical in the age of Easy Rider > and > Bonnie and Clyde. When it won Best Picture I think its > old-fashionedness > hurt its reputation and subsequent place in musical history. > > I saw a production in London in 1995 or 1997 that was terrific but it > never > came to Broadway. > > Bruce > Joseph S.E. Palis Department of Geography University of North Carolina Saunders Hall, CB 3220 Chapel Hill, N.C. 27599-3220 palis@email.unc.edu joepalis@yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 13:48:15 -0700 From: "Russell Bowden" Subject: The future in 'No Apologies VLJC Aloha, Gang, I think that Our Queen wasn't seeing the future as much as she was just quoting his and her-story. Though she was probably referring to a present event (God-fearing USA peacekeeping soldiers raping young Japanese girls on Okinawa) this has unfortunately been the case throughout the ages. It's always happening somewhere, guys, the sponsors just have to figure out how much $$ they can make on it by showing the actual photographs tonight at 10! War is now a series of lawsuits, apologies, etc. Just 'cause George Butcher (#1 Christian Terrorist) says the war is over doesn't automatically mean that for the people we invaded. Anyone remember Osama?? Croatia? Rwanda? Guess those just aren't selling McDonald's Happy Meals like they were 4 or 5 years ago. Gotta keep the blood fresh. Ruefully, Russellulu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Best Restaurant Giveaway Ever! Vote for your favorites for a chance to win $1 million! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:19:48 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: oliver (NJC) I saw Oliver on stage in Chicago preMonkees with Davy Jones as Artful Dodger. I loved the play, and loved the soundtrack, and know every word it in. I have never seen the movie. Maybe it was the times - so out of sync with where cinema was as at, as a wise poster noted. Actually some of the songs have stayed with me life long. As Long as He Needs Me - Where is Love - One Boy for Sale - still give meaning to me. Please sir may I have some more is still a staple of mine in conversation, and was a staple of my best bud's and my comic tapes (a kind of guerilla theatre on tape) we made in the late 60s. A scene of Oliver was shown on Ed Sullivan the night the Beatles were first on, 2-9-64. It is playing soon in Grand Rapids. Debating whether to take Gage. Not a damn thing I have written here adds one thing to the conversation - - sorry. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:33:34 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: lovemaking music, not What about "The Crazy Cries of Love"? Love Paz > I protest! I think almost all of HOSL is...um...inspiring. You have to run > and stop the CD before Shadows and Light comes on though because that can kill > a mood. lol. > > I agree, there aren't many that lend themselves to makin' love, but here's my > top ten : > > Court and Spark > Help Me > Edith and the Kingpin > Shades of Scarlett... > Hissing of Summer Lawns > Harry's House > Off Night Back Street > Strange Boy > Hejira > > Okay that's only 9. I tried. > I recommend Best of Laura Nyro - Disc 2. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:31:42 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Shameless self promotion (NJC) Congrats Sherelle I love this version of Eleanor Rigby you did and you are scoring very high there right now with a 10.70. I listened to quite a few of your competitors and while some of them are quite good I am just so damn biased. What can I say? Hope you do really well! Love Michael > Hi Jonilistas! > > I need your help. I am trying to get some exposure in a jazz vocalist > contest and I need as many people as possible tocheck out the site. I would > love to have your vote but only if you feel I am deserving of it. Some of > you asked to be updated privately so this will be a repeat request. > > Up until recently, I would have thought nothing of sabotaging myself doing > something like this, but I am happy to say that I'm beginning to get past > that. You have to believe in yourself first and foremost. I was listening to > an interview with James Taylor (thank you Jim!) and he ended up going to > England to find the break he needed. He ended up being signed by someone who > was involved with the Beatles at the time in 1968 I believe and the rest is > history. I have found as many of you who are artists have also found that it > is a struggle but with a few good people standing behind you and believing > in you, anything can be accomplished. So thank you in advance anyone who > would like to check out the jazz vocalist competition. If you have any > trouble finding my name, please contact me off list. Thanks again! Love, > Sherelle > > http://www.jazzconnect.com/competition/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:35:41 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: meeting patty griffin * impossible dream tour NJC I am SO jealous! I wish I could have been there too. It sounds like it was a Great evening. I hope Patti comes here soon. See you guys in a couple of months. Love Paz > Nikki, Brian and I went to see Patty Griffin at the Keswick in Glenside, PA > this evening. Patty is incredible! I dont know what else to say other than she > blew everyone's socks off with her presence and gifts of song writing, > singing, piano playing !!.Has anyone seen her play piano before? I didnt know > she could ! A night to remember for many reasons. Wonderful to share a concert > like this with other jmdlers . > > I'm really too tired to say anymore for now, just wanted to share this amazing > evening with our friends. > > MagsnBrei&Nikki too ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:22:12 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: oliver (NJC) I love this show...the catch phrase that our family pulled out of it was "I'm reviewing...the situation..." We saw the movie when it came out, I've seen it on stage a couple of times, never been in it yet - but eventually. I could be Bill Sikes if I do it in the near future, or Fagin if in the distant future! The artful dodger's first name was Jack, and he went on to do the Sid & Marty Kroft puppet TV show "H.R. Pufnstuf. Anyone else remember that? Kate, I can appreciate what you've said about your Dad sharing his passion for Joni since my Dad shared his passion for Broadway musicals. I didn't always care for them the way he did but his love for the music and for me was very evident. And now, time for a late supper...everyone sing with me "food, glorious food..." Bob NP: Ken Watters, "Both Sides Now" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:48:13 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: NJC maggie's comment I'm trying to understand the philosophy of degrading prisoners. I heard someone on the news (probably not an administration spokesman) saying the idea was to take embarassing pictures to use to convince Iraquis to become informants. Now, follow with me on this. 1. They grab someone who most likely has mixed feelings about the US (like everone I suppose.) 2. US solidiers strip him, kick him, put women's underwear on his head and snap his picture. 3. After a week of this, US soldiers say, "Ya know something, Abul? We like you. You're swell. How'd you like to be our friend? We need some help. Will ya help us? If you don't we'll send this picture to your Mom. But really, we want to be your friend. What do you say?" I just don't imagine it would work any better in Iraqi than it would in Covington. What am I missing? Sincerely, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:36:19 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: NJC maggie's comment "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > I'm trying to understand the philosophy of degrading prisoners. I > heard someone on the news (probably not an administration spokesman) > saying the idea was to take embarassing pictures to use to convince > Iraquis to become informants. > > Now, follow with me on this. > > 1. They grab someone who most likely has mixed feelings about the US > (like everone I suppose.) > > 2. US solidiers strip him, kick him, put women's underwear on his head > and snap his picture. > > 3. After a week of this, US soldiers say, "Ya know something, Abul? We > like you. You're swell. How'd you like to be our friend? We need some > help. Will ya help us? If you don't we'll send this picture to your > Mom. But really, we want to be your friend. What do you say?" > > I just don't imagine it would work any better in Iraqi than it would in > Covington. What am I missing? I guess the difference is the absolute horror and shame a Muslim man would feel under these circumstances. Here, a guy might say "so what?", over there, the culture has programmed them that this kind of exposure is ungodly, inexcusably shameful. They were using their cultural taboos against them, as blackmail. Police use blackmail techniques in Covington, too, just different ones, like 'tell us what we want to hear (cop a plea or testify against someone else) and we won't put you in a cell for forty years'. Both techniques, and tortured confessions in general are noted more for their desired results than for their accuracy. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 02:02:43 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: May 17 On May 17 the following articles were published: 1969: "Joni Mitchell" - Rolling Stone (Interview, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=312 1998: "Animated Dylan steals revival tour spotlight" - San Jose Mercury News (Review - Concert, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=332 1999: "ASCAP Founder's Award: Joni Mitchell" - ASCAP website (Biography, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=44 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #226 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)