From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #221 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, May 13 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 221 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum ["tantra-apso" ] Re: laura nyro njc [Gary Zack ] Fwd: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum, now hello Doug! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Laura nitro - now very njc [Jerry Notaro ] HOSL ["Kate Cox" ] Harry's House ["Kate Cox" ] Re: global warming njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: therapists, NJC [Em ] Re: HOSL -- njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Laura nitro - now very njc [Gary Zack ] Re: HOSL -- njc [Gary Zack ] Re: HOSL -- njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: therapists, NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] NJC Re: HOSL [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: HOSL NJC ["Kate Cox" ] RE: HOSL NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] The News (NJC) [Michaelpaz@aol.com] parents [Kate ] RE: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation [Em ] Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation [Em ] Re: parents njc [colin ] Songwriting process, thread #517, njc [] Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Cross your Teas? Dot your eyes? Corrected Email-NJC ["Ron" Subject: Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:03 AM Subject: Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum > Colin>Kate's point about learning/seeing where the parents got their > shit from-doesn't make a great deal of difference. It can make it > worse-make it more incomprehensible.< > > It made a difference to me or I wouldn't have said it. It isn't some > theory I made up, its something I found helpful. It may not work for > everyone but that doesn't mean it might not for some. Hi kate: i wasn't being critical of you nor dismissing you point. You are right it works for some. It did for me but obviously in a different way to the way it worked for you. One thing that was of the greatest help was to realise that it wasn't 'me'. the same would have been done with any child. That caused a big leap into a more healthy life. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:57:50 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: re:Hejira, now Joni & her Mum - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Boudreau" To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:31 AM Subject: re:Hejira, now Joni & her Mum > Here Here, Colin, very well put. Wow, this is my very first post on > JMDL. Reading your post hit me. I totally agree. Anyway, hi everyone, > I'm Doug and am also a huge Joni fan. Hi Doug and welcome to the lsit. i am not sure which post of mine you are referring to but thanks for the comments! So how did you get into Joni? bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 06:54:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: global warming njc --- Randy Remote wrote: > The redwoods, up > here, btw, > live to be 2000 years old, and must be seen to be > believed. The > largest stands are being felled even as we sleep. > Short sighted business man, nothing lasts for long. > Nothing > lasts for long. Something that has lived 2000 years deserves to live to the end of its natural days. Cutting these things down is blasphemy, imo. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:17:17 -0400 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: laura nyro njc Hi Mack, There are many people who are completely unfamiliar with Laura Nyro, and I think that may be because mostly other people had hits with her songs. Although she recorded her own albums, her own recordings didn't get a lot of radio airplay although you may remember Three Dog Night's "Eli's Coming" or The Fifth Dimension's "Wedding Bell Blues" "Sweet Blindness" and "Stoned Soul Picnic," Barbra Streisand's "Stoney End" and "I Never Meant To Hurt You" and Blood Sweat and Tears and Peter Paul and Mary's "And When I Die." Those are all Laura Nyro songs. I'm not sure if it is you or someone else on the list who really likes Melissa Manchester. There's a fun story in the Laura Nyro biography by Michele Kort where apparently Melissa was taking some sort of music class taught by Paul Simon. I would guess this had to be back in the late 60's. From what I remember she brought him some songs she had written and after he heard them, Paul looked at her and said, "You've been listening to Laura Nyro again haven't you? Well stop!" If I recall correctly Melissa mentions Laura and Joni both in one of her songs, written at a later date. It sounds like the song you listened to was called "The Bells" which is an old tune, not written by Laura. Laura recorded an album with Labelle called "Gonna Take A Miracle" which was an album of cover songs, songs that she used to sing with a little harmony group in the subways of New York when she was a kid. It's a fun album, but probably not one of the best to showcase her and her songwriting talents. I would maybe suggest trying "Eli and the Thirteenth Confession" if you want to hear Laura at perhaps her finest. Personally, I love "New York Tendaberry" the most but I don't think it would be a great first album for someone who hasn't listened to Laura before. "Eli" is a wonderful album and there will be songs you will probably recognize on it. Let me know your thoughts if you decide to progress with Laura! Best, Gary mackoliver wrote: >All this talk about Laura Nyro since I have been here at the JMDL. I kept >thinking that maybe she was someone that I had heard or seen and perhaps >didn't know it was her. While going through cd's today and putting them onto >the computer I was doing so with one called the Philadelphia Sound that I >bought a few years ago. I listened to mostly 2 of the disks and ignored the >others but when copying noticed Laura's name on one of the tunes so played it. >I still don't know who she is and have never heard that voice before that I >can remember. This one is a duet with Patti Labelle. Interesting. Something >about the bells. Not too thrilled with it. Nice voice though. Hard to >imagine after 46 years of listening I missed her completely. > >mack > >np: Assorted compilations. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:16:17 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum, now hello Doug! **Another thing I've been meaning to ask is about this BBC program I saw a few years back(on CMT of all places),Songs of the Songwriters ??? or something like that. Has anyone else seen this show before??** Hi Doug, and welcome. I've not heard of this show before - we have some BBC footage in the JMDL archives but that title doesn't ring a bell. So I'm taking a wild shot and guessing you're a Beatle fan too? Hey, If I can be an SCJoniGuy, you can be a BeatleDoug. Looking forward to hearing more from you. Bob NP: Fareed Haque, "Woodstock" Return-Path: Received: from rly-xh06.mx.aol.com (rly-xh06.mail.aol.com [172.20.115.236]) by air-xh04.mail.aol.com (v99_r4.3) with ESMTP id MAILINXH42-70b40a2de1aaa; Wed, 12 May 2004 22:32:14 -0400 Received: from smoe.org (jane.smoe.org [199.201.145.78]) by rly-xh06.mx.aol.com (v99.12) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXH61-70b40a2de1aaa; Wed, 12 May 2004 22:31:55 -0400 Received: from smoe.org (ident-user@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smoe.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D2VoD2010116 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 22:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i4D2Vo9C010115 for joni-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 2004 22:31:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: smoe.org: majordom set sender to owner-joni@jmdl.com using -f Received: from fep1.cogeco.net (smtp.cogeco.net [216.221.81.25]) by smoe.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D2VkD2010099 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 22:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cogeco.ca (d150-172-120.home.cgocable.net [24.150.172.120]) by fep1.cogeco.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F00F8FCE for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 22:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:31:20 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: re:Hejira, now Joni & her Mum From: Doug Boudreau To: joni@smoe.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <9E8753EE-A485-11D8-8428-000502D7D985@cogeco.ca> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on jane.smoe.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Virus-Scanned: clamdscan / ClamAV version 0.60 X-Virus-Scanned: clamdscan / ClamAV version 0.60 Sender: owner-joni@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Doug Boudreau Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com X-AOL-IP: 199.201.145.78 Here Here, Colin, very well put. Wow, this is my very first post on JMDL. Reading your post hit me. I totally agree. Anyway, hi everyone, I'm Doug and am also a huge Joni fan. Another thing I've been meaning to ask is about this BBC program I saw a few years back(on CMT of all places),Songs of the Songwriters ??? or something like that. Has anyone else seen this show before?? Each show was a half hour I think and I just caught the end of Joni's episode. I heard there was one on Neil Young,James Tayler, and lord knows who else. I was wondering what her songlist was for that show. I'm sure some of you has seen it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:41:43 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Laura nitro - now very njc > Hi Mack, > > There are many people who are completely unfamiliar with Laura Nyro, and > I think that may be because mostly other people had hits with her songs. > Although she recorded her own albums, her own recordings didn't get a > lot of radio airplay although you may remember Three Dog Night's "Eli's > Coming" or The Fifth Dimension's "Wedding Bell Blues" "Sweet Blindness" > and "Stoned Soul Picnic," Barbra Streisand's "Stoney End" and "I Never > Meant To Hurt You" and Blood Sweat and Tears and Peter Paul and Mary's > "And When I Die." Those are all Laura Nyro songs. > > I'm not sure if it is you or someone else on the list who really likes > Melissa Manchester. There's a fun story in the Laura Nyro biography by > Michele Kort where apparently Melissa was taking some sort of music > class taught by Paul Simon. I would guess this had to be back in the > late 60's. From what I remember she brought him some songs she had > written and after he heard them, Paul looked at her and said, "You've > been listening to Laura Nyro again haven't you? Well stop!" > > If I recall correctly Melissa mentions Laura and Joni both in one of her > songs, written at a later date. > > It sounds like the song you listened to was called "The Bells" which is > an old tune, not written by Laura. Laura recorded an album with Labelle > called "Gonna Take A Miracle" which was an album of cover songs, songs > that she used to sing with a little harmony group in the subways of New > York when she was a kid. It's a fun album, but probably not one of the > best to showcase her and her songwriting talents. Always love any talk of Laura here, especially by you Gary. You are so knowledgeable about her. I just bought the remastered Gonna Take A Miracle, and it still gives me chills. Did you know Patti and Laura became so close during the making of the album that she is Patti's daughter's godmother? And Mack, I bought the new Melissa cd. I was very disappointed except with the final bonus live track. Would love to hear what you thought. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:46:56 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: HOSL Doug wrote: ">I remember my reaction to HOSL back in '75 when I was 19. It didn't completely turn me off >but I knew my relationship with Joni was going downhill. I did like most of side one and the title >song. The musical arrangements were better than ever except I didn't like the cheesy >synthesizer. >I was ambivalent about Harry's House, I imagined this was the type of life Joni saw in L.A.. I >couldn't identify with it though I knew it was something to be avoided. And I have been >successful at that. I followed Joni's music since 1968, my sister owned STAS and Judy Collins >Wildflowers. I liked Both Sides Now so when Clouds was released I bought it, my first LP. I was >hooked already. I distinctly remember the end of the line was when I heard Coyote. I hated it. >Her Jazz influence didn't impress me in a good way. I felt she had traded in her soul for style. >I finally bought Hejira on CD about a year ago but it doesn't do anything for me. And the >Shadows and Light DVD? yuk!" Thank you Doug, it's so interesting to hear a perspective from someone who followed Joni from the beginning of her career. I really think you should give Hejira another chance though! You write that she had traded in her soul for style, but maybe it was just a new way of communicating and expressing the contents of her soul. We learn as much about Joni's present state of mind on Hejira as we do on STAS, Blue or FTR. Just my opinion though, I can totally understand your point of view, as I am into a few modern bands (for example Radiohead) whose changes of style have made me feel quite bereaved sometimes. Bruce wrote:">Yes, I did buy the HOSL LP immediately. I was 21. And I totally loved it. I >had no problem with where JM's evolution was taking her. Loved Jungle Line. >Loved Scarlett. Loved Harry and S&L. In some ways, this record is my >favorite of all her records. >To me, her language was reaching peaks that she hadn't reached before. >Telling stories with a precision and subtlety and complexity that she has >matched, but still not surpassed. (The tunes are really good too.) >and kate added: >> My Dad warned me that >>it was a very disturbing song, and my take on it was always pretty much >>the same as yours: that Harry is trapped by a woman's body, greed and >> need for him.And Bruce said:>I don't know why -- but your dad's warning strikes me as funny. (I don't >know how old you are, and when this warning took place, or in what context, >but 'parental warnings' about Joni is funny.)" LOL! Like you, I was 21 when I first heard HOSL (I'm 22 now). I had just got back from university for the summer break last year, and I was raving to my dad about Hejira and begging him to let me listen to his precious vinyls of FTR and HOSL. He sat me down and played me side 2, telling me he had been waiting all his life for someone to talk about Joni with after losing touch with the friend who introduced him to Joni. When talking about Harry's House he couldn't help shuddering at the 'horror' of it, brilliant though he thinks it is. It wasn't a parental warning, my dad is totally chilled, it was just a moment of connection I guess, seeing his daughter at the beginning of a journey he had once taken. He told me that when I was a baby he used to sing me to sleep with 'Barangrill' and 'Electricity'. I can't remember this at all, but I expect it is written deep on my soul and is part of the reason I love Joni so much. Can I just say, I have been putting my posts in paragraphs, but every time they appear on the list they are all bunched together which must make them quite hard to read! Does anyone else have this problem with Hotmail/ have any suggestions what I could do about it, please? I'm not very e-literate, as they say! Love Kate C - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Have more fun with your phone - download ringtones, logos, screensavers, games & more. Click here to begin! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:48:51 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Harry's House Jenny wrote: >I'm curious what you or anyone else thinks of Centerpiece - does it add to the story for you? >Do you see the transition as disjointed or appropriate. Hell wrote: >It seems to me that the inclusion of >Centrepiece is to illustrate what he thought married life would be like, >rather than the stale, unexciting existence he's now trapped in. >I think Joni uses this brilliantly to - quite dramatically - counter what >the rest of the song is saying. Here's this bleak existence, but "this", >ie. Centrepiece, is what he thought marriage would be like. Then, rather >than ending the song on that positive note, she goes straight back into >Harry's House and continues the description of the "pool-side goddess", >who - rather than being his Centrepiece - has become something quite >different! It's interesting the totally different impressions people get. I think Centrepiece is used, not to counter the rest of the song, but to back up the sense of the horrific, suffocating neediness with which Harry is trapped. To say, "Nothing's any good without you, baby you're my centrepiece" is basically to tell somebody that they are responsible for your life. They are the only good thing in your life, your life would not be worth living without them, and when they aren't around you have no reason for your existence. "When you coming home Harry? Nothing's any good". Now I don't think the original writers of Centrepiece would have seen it that way: I think it is supposed to be a love song. But Joni, by placing it in the middle of her own dissection of a needy relationship, and by introducing it with that heart-juddering time change and eerie chanting, reveals its true nature. If I'm right, Centrepiece is a song from the 50's, when belief in the American Dream was still fairly widespread amongst the young. Growing up with songs like that would have provided them with a structure for loving relationships in the context of slavish pursuit of money and possessions. This is only my opinion though, and I don't mean to be rude about anyone who has ever said anything along the lines of "Nothing's any good without you, baby you're my centrepiece". I have done so myself on several occasions, and this is only one point of view on the matter! Some people find it nice to be needed, I do sometimes. Bob wrote: >Regarding Harry's House, like you say I don't think Joni >paints either of the characters as the "bad guy" in the >situation, rather they've used each other to achieve what they >THOUGHT they wanted, only to discover their lack of fulfillment >and frustration while simultaneously acknowledging the trap >they're in. Bob, you've captured exactly what I meant without rambling on half as much as I did! Believe it or not I do try to be parsimonious, but I think I've got a way to go... Love Kate C - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stay in touch better and keep protected online with MSNs NEW all-in-one Premium Services. Find out more here. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:53:35 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: global warming njc Catherine writes: << Something that has lived 2000 years deserves to live to the end of its natural days. >> Sorta figures YOU'D feel that way, Catherine. XO, - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 06:05:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: therapists, NJC - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > I wonder what > Myrtle thinks about it - LOL! Is Myrtle her Mom? so how does that relate to "six foot cliffs on Myrtle's lawn"? Like the lawn is a rocky place? hmmmmmm.... Em ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:07:17 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: HOSL -- njc Kate writes: << He told me that when I was a baby he used to sing me to sleep with 'Barangrill' and 'Electricity'. >> How sweet! No wonder you grew up to be so wonderful! Me, I was sung to sleep with Tennessee Ernie singing "Sixteen Tons." - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:10:43 -0400 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Laura nitro - now very njc Thanks Jerry, I do love my Laura! Yes, I was aware that Patti and Laura were very close and that she was her child's godmother. I'm anxious for the "Live at the Fillmore" CD due to be released in June. We'll get to hear at least two of Laura's songs, never recorded before. My favorite track on the remastered "Miracle" is Laura's version of "Ooh Child." And if you have the "Eli" re-master, the demo version of "Lu" is breathtaking...I love the starkness of it...just Laura, piano and some faint harmonies. Another rare find that would be worth a listen is a duet done by Laura and Kenny Rankin called "Polonaise" written by Laura's brother Jan. I think Kenny has mentioned it on his website and is attempting to have it released in the future. I'm not sure it was ever commercially released. I did see a demo 45 of it on eBay awhile back and it sold for over $100.00. They just sold Laura's piano stool on eBay and it went for over $2,000.00!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2312&item=4185425015&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW I'm glad that the Nyro estate continues to bless us with her recordings. She was a sweet and quirky soul - and sadly missed. Gary P.S. Jerry - Laura Nitro???? LOL Did you know that Laura originally thought of using the name "Laura Niagara" and that her father (I believe) warned her that if she received a bad review they just might say "Niagara falls...." That changed her mind pretty quickly! I think it was said that she chose "Nyro" because of her fondness for Bob Dylan...so she inserted the "Y" in her name. I think that's right...would have to check my book!! Jerry Notaro wrote: >>Hi Mack, >> >>There are many people who are completely unfamiliar with Laura Nyro, and >>I think that may be because mostly other people had hits with her songs. >>Although she recorded her own albums, her own recordings didn't get a >>lot of radio airplay although you may remember Three Dog Night's "Eli's >>Coming" or The Fifth Dimension's "Wedding Bell Blues" "Sweet Blindness" >>and "Stoned Soul Picnic," Barbra Streisand's "Stoney End" and "I Never >>Meant To Hurt You" and Blood Sweat and Tears and Peter Paul and Mary's >>"And When I Die." Those are all Laura Nyro songs. >> >>I'm not sure if it is you or someone else on the list who really likes >>Melissa Manchester. There's a fun story in the Laura Nyro biography by >>Michele Kort where apparently Melissa was taking some sort of music >>class taught by Paul Simon. I would guess this had to be back in the >>late 60's. From what I remember she brought him some songs she had >>written and after he heard them, Paul looked at her and said, "You've >>been listening to Laura Nyro again haven't you? Well stop!" >> >>If I recall correctly Melissa mentions Laura and Joni both in one of her >>songs, written at a later date. >> >>It sounds like the song you listened to was called "The Bells" which is >>an old tune, not written by Laura. Laura recorded an album with Labelle >>called "Gonna Take A Miracle" which was an album of cover songs, songs >>that she used to sing with a little harmony group in the subways of New >>York when she was a kid. It's a fun album, but probably not one of the >>best to showcase her and her songwriting talents. >> > >Always love any talk of Laura here, especially by you Gary. You are so >knowledgeable about her. I just bought the remastered Gonna Take A Miracle, >and it still gives me chills. Did you know Patti and Laura became so close >during the making of the album that she is Patti's daughter's godmother? And >Mack, I bought the new Melissa cd. I was very disappointed except with the >final bonus live track. Would love to hear what you thought. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:12:41 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Re: HOSL -- njc >From: Smurfycopy@aol.com >To: sellout48@hotmail.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: HOSL -- njc >Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:07:17 EDT > >Kate writes: > ><< He told me that when I was a baby he used to sing me to sleep with >'Barangrill' and 'Electricity'. >> > >How sweet! No wonder you grew up to be so wonderful! Me, I was sung to sleep >with Tennessee Ernie singing "Sixteen Tons." > >--Smurf Who is Tennessee Ernie? And what are the words to 'Sixteen Tons'?! Are these really stupid questions? My dad might have mediated all these good effects by also singing 'Papa Don't Take No Messing' by James Brown though. Love Kate - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Have more fun with your phone - download ringtones, logos, screensavers, games & more. Click here to begin! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:18:44 -0400 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: HOSL -- njc Ooh Smurph, I have a copy of that Tennessee Ernie Ford record on 78 that is in pristine condition! I could make you a copy if you ever need help falling to sleep, and also a copy of Dave Attel's "Insomniac" DVD! ;-) Gary Smurfycopy@aol.com wrote: >Kate writes: > ><< He told me that when I was a baby he used to sing me to sleep with >'Barangrill' and 'Electricity'. >> > >How sweet! No wonder you grew up to be so wonderful! Me, I was sung to sleep >with Tennessee Ernie singing "Sixteen Tons." > >--Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:25:04 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: HOSL -- njc Kate asks: << Who is Tennessee Ernie? And what are the words to 'Sixteen Tons'? >> Tennessee Ernie Ford was a performer from the '50s and '60s. Here are the lyrics (which also include "mama lion" years before Joni used them in See You Sometime!): Sixteen Tons (Merle Travis) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I was born one mornin' when the sun didn't shine Picked up a shovel and I walked to the mine I hauled sixteen tons of number 9 coal And the straw-boss said, "Well, bless my soul" (Chorus:) You haul sixteen tons, whadaya get? Another day older and deeper in debt Saint Peter don't you call me cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store Repeat Chorus I was born one morning it was drizzle and rain Fightin' and Trouble are my middle name I was raised in a canebrake by an old mama lion And no high-toned woman make me walk the line Repeat Chorus See me comin' better step aside A lot of men didn't and a lot of men died I got one fist of iron and the other of steel And if the right one don't get ya, the left one will Repeat Chorus Born one mornin' when the sun didn't shine Picked up a shovel and I walked to the mine I hauled sixteen tons of number 9 coal And the straw-boss said, "Well, bless my soul" Repeat Chorus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:28:17 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: therapists, NJC **Is Myrtle her Mom? Yes, and her Dad's name is Bill (Anderson). **so how does that relate to "six foot cliffs on Myrtle's lawn"? Like the lawn is a rocky place? Nope - it's a reference to a 6-foot snow drift. But you're easily forgiven as y'all don't get a bunch of them in FL. Neither do we. But when I lived in Michigan? Oh yeah. Bob NP: Sugar, "Explode & Make Up" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:36:26 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: HOSL **He sat me down and played me side 2, telling me he had been waiting all his life for someone to talk about Joni with after losing touch with the friend who introduced him to Joni. ** Man O Man, this is a very moving statement. While my son & I share lots of musical tastes, (Ben Folds, Ryan Adams, Death Cab For Cutie among others) it is particularly gratifying when he pulls something out that is before his time and really digs it and I get to share some of that history, and then add "and if you like THAT, check THIS out..." Just recently he's gotten into Pink Floyd. It's a pure joy to share music with your children - good for you & your Dad. Of course, my son has been exposed to lots of Joni as well... time will tell if it will stick. he probably has to have his heart broken another time or two first. As for your hotmail dilemma- I can't help you there, but don't let it be a hindrance, keep your wonderful posts coming. Bob NP: Sugarloaf, "Green-Eyed Lady" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:47:53 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: RE: HOSL NJC Bob wrote: >While my son & I >share lots of musical tastes, (Ben Folds, Ryan Adams, Death >Cab For Cutie among others) it is particularly gratifying >when he pulls something out that is before his time and really >digs it and I get to share some of that history, and then add >"and if you like THAT, check THIS out..." Just recently he's >gotten into Pink Floyd. It's a pure joy to share music with >your children - good for you & your Dad. > Of course, my son has been exposed to lots of Joni as well... >time will tell if it will stick. he probably has to have his >heart broken another time or two first. How old is your son, if you don't mind my asking? I think you're right that he needs a few more heartbreaks. I first listened to 'For The Roses' at 18 and 'Hejira' at 20, and neither of them did anything for me. By 21 I had obviously crossed some kind of magic line in life! But you're right, it's great to share music between parent & child, my dad certainly has lots of stories to tell from the 60's and 70's if you get him going! Love Kate - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stay in touch better and keep protected online with MSNs NEW all-in-one Premium Services. Find out more here. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:17:27 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: RE: HOSL NJC **How old is your son, if you don't mind my asking? He's 17, graduating from high schools this month and will be 18 in October. **I think you're right that he needs a few more heartbreaks. I first listened to 'For The Roses' at 18 and 'Hejira' at 20, and neither of them did anything for me. I first heard Hejira when I was 18, a co-worker named Lisa loaned me her LP because she said I wasn't listening to enough female vocalists (she was right). I really loved the SOUND of the record, but lyrically I was unable to connect. But I kept listening, and as my life continued to unfold the pieces of the puzzle became clearer and more meaningful. I'm with Smurf in that I think it's one of the most phenomenal artistic achievements ever. Bob NP: Sugarloaf, "Rusty Cloud" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:30:49 EDT From: Michaelpaz@aol.com Subject: The News (NJC) Hi Gang I am working with Tom Scott yesterday and today on a video shoot for a corp client that features him as the musical director with the Funk Brothers also fearturing: Ruben Studdard, Joan Osborne, Chaka Khan and others. It is very exciting and I hope to be able to talk to him about the Joni days. In other news my friend Theresa Andersson is out there on tour and her new album "Shine" is doing very well for her. If she comes near you go check her out. Tell her Paz sent you. Best Paz THERESA ANDERSSON 5/13/04 Lafayette, LA Blue Moon Saloon 5/14/04 Baton Rouge, LA Phil Brady's 5/21/04 New Orleans, LA Tulane's Wave Goodbye Party (PRIVATE) 5/22/04 Alexandria, LA Alexandria Zoo 5/26/04 Birmingham, AL Zydeco (downstairs) 5/27/04 Atlanta, GA Smith's Olde Bar (w/ Tommy Thompson) 5/28/04 St. Simmons Island, GA Rafters 5/29/04 Isle of Palms, SC Windjammer (w/ Blue Dogs) 5/30/04 Isle of Palms, SC Windjammer (w/ Blue Dogs) 6/2/04 Baton Rouge, LA The Texas Music Hall (opening for Johnny Lang, capacity 1050) 6/3/04 Dallas, TX Club Dada (w/ the Subdudes) 6/4/04 Lubbock, TX West Texas Canyon Ampitheater (opening for Loretta Lynn) 6/5/04 Austin, TX The Vibe 6/9/04 Jacksonville, FL Jack Rabbits (w/ Drivin n Cryin) 6/10/04 Orlando, FL The Social 6/11/04 Tampa, FL Skippers Smokehouse 6/12/04 Atlanta, GA Andrews Upstairs (w/ Blue Dogs) 6/18/04 Lawrence, KS Wakarusa Festival 6/19/04 Des Moines, IA Simon Estes Riverfront Ampitheater (w/ Sonia Dada) 6/25/04 New Haven, CT Toad's Place (w/ Little Feat) 6/29/04 Berwyn, IL Fitzgeralds 6/30/04 Oshkosh, WI Waterfest 7/1/04 Milwaukee, WI Summerfest 7/2/04 Detroit Lakes, MN 10,000 Lakes Festival (Saloon Stage 7-9pm) 7/3/04 Detroit Lakes, MN 10,000 Lakes Festival (Barn Stage 3:30-4:30pm) 7/4/04 St. Paul, MN Taste of Minnesota 7/9/04 Masontown, WV All Good Festival 7/15/04 New Orleans, LA PRIVATE SHOW in Superdome 7/20/04 Vail, CO Gerald Ford Ampitheater ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:08:29 -0500 From: Kate Subject: parents kate B > It made a difference to me or I wouldn't have said it. It isn't some > theory I made up, its something I found helpful. It may not work for > everyone but that doesn't mean it might not for some. I agree with you Kate, I think it can make quite a big difference. Knowing that our parents only "dished out" what *they* were taught as children helps us understand that they were not monsters, but only human, doing the best they could with the upbringing, knowledge, and patterns of behaviour they grew up with. Understanding how our parents were raised can help us to forgive them if we are willing to do so, and move past blaming our parents for our personal problems, to taking responsibility for what we do with our own lives *from now on.* To me, this seems a huge and necessary release of resentment that frees up a lot of personal power. A friend who knows someone who knows Myrtle told me that Joni has been nothing but a disappointment to her mother. Is that not crazy? But hey, it looks like no matter how great Joni's genius and graciousness, Joni will never be "good enough" for Myrtle, who has her own Puritan standards for what makes a good woman, and they are not the same as Joni's standards. Myrtle is probably every bit as hard on herself; it makes me wonder what kind of stick-up-the-ass parents raised her. Anyway, the woman must have done *something* right, to raise a daughter like Joni. Either that, or Joni has spent a lifetime trying not to be like her mother. NorthKate More Wildlife http://xoetc.antville.org Who does she think she is, Anaos Nin? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:04:00 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum NJC Colin > One thing that was of the greatest help was to realise that it wasn't 'me'. the same would have been done with any child. That caused a big leap into a more healthy life.< Absolutely! The inner work you've done to realize that & so much more is, to me, astounding colin! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:43:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation OK all this talk of HOSL has got me thinking I have to have this CD. Was wondering if, based on the other JM stuff I like, someone could guess whether HOSL is gonna be one I like. I gotta admit I'm having a hard time finding much joy in DJRD. LOVE Hejira, LOVE Blue and the earlier stuff. So given that I like those works, but am having a tough time with DJRD (my shortcoming I'm sure) will I likely enjoy HOSL? or? impossible to venture a guess? thanks! I'm spending too much $$ on CD's these days..gotta make them "count". Am thinking about getting either "hits" or "misses" or both... Em ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:02:19 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation Em, I would like to think that you'd like it, but I don't want that liability hanging over my head if you don't. Suggestion: go to Amazon.com and pull it up onscreen. They offer 30-second samples of 5 of the tracks. At least that will give you a taste of the sound of it. It's definitely not folk-rock, Babe. Bob NP: Christine Sullivan, "Here & Now" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:19:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > It's definitely not folk-rock, Babe. so, according to the "Bob-filter" would you call Hejira folk-rock? is it more like DJRD or more like Hejira? or impossible to tell..anyway I will check the Amazon thing...I always have probs getting those clips to play. For me its actually easier to go to Limewire, down a song and play it than to do whatever RealPlayer wanst me to do to get those clips to play..lol, sad but true.... Maybe I'll call the radio staion tomorrow morning, ask them to play something of HOSL and keep my ears on... :) with appreciation, Babe ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:46:19 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: parents njc Kate wrote: >kate B > > > >>It made a difference to me or I wouldn't have said it. It isn't some >>theory I made up, its something I found helpful. It may not work for >>everyone but that doesn't mean it might not for some. >> >> > >I agree with you Kate, I think it can make quite a big difference. Knowing >that our parents only "dished out" what *they* were taught as children helps >us understand that they were not monsters, but only human, doing the best >they could with the upbringing, knowledge, and patterns of behaviour they >grew up with. > In general that would be so. I don't think it applies to parents who sexually abuse their children, beat them, lock them in cupboards, starve them, stub ciggarrettes out on them or any other awful beahviours. they cannot be considered to have done the 'best they can' nor excused becasue it was done to them. We don't accpet that reasoning for peadophile behaviour. > Understanding how our parents were raised can help us to >forgive them if we are willing to do so, and move past blaming our parents >for our personal problems, to taking responsibility for what we do with our >own lives *from now on.* To me, this seems a huge and necessary release of >resentment that frees up a lot of personal power. > Moving on, taking responsibilty for one's own life, leaving resentment behind are an absolute necessity if one is to be free. It can all be done without forgiveness. Forgiveness is so often spoken of lightly. Strange how it is so often expected of children of abusive parents. i ahve never heard an adult admonished for not forgiving the person who raped them, murdered their child, their partner or whatever. Quite rightly, an adult who had experienced this would soon tell a person where to go if they told them this. Forgiveness is not a prerequisite for a good and productive life. It is not a necessary part of recovery, nor for freeing oneself from resentment nor blame. Forgiveness is often encouraged for reasons other than the welfare of the person urged to do the forgiving. Ordinary run of the mill pain and resentment, between parents and children, can be dealt with much more easily and forgivenss much easier to come by. In such cases, love and respect are involved. In cases of much more serious abuse, love and respect are not a part of the eqaution. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:56:56 -0400 From: Subject: Songwriting process, thread #517, njc At http://www.cowboyjunkies.com/exclusives/anatomy/anatomy.html , some uncredited writer wrote about how the Cowboy Junkies new songs are born. Margo doesn't talk like this or write like this. She usually signs her stuff too. This leads me to think that the reluctant rock star, the reclusive writer, Mike Timmins wrote it. I like the last sentence especially. All the best, Lama (a former "llama in the Junkies community") >For us it all begins with a song: an acoustic guitar and a voice. But each song comes to each album with its own history, along its own strange path. Some are born and realized in a matter of minutes, others take years to finally find a place. Some pop out and are perfect little gems, others mutate and transform themselves, stealing and pillaging from the unformed. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:59:39 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation DRJD is very similar to Hejira, some of the songs were composed at the same time. The title track to DJRD is like "Coyote, Part II", and when she wrote them she played the two as a medley in concert. But I don't compare HOSL to them, really...HOSL has a different set of players and the sound is more dense - Hejira is much more looser and freersounding, and on many tracks is an ongoing dialogue between Joni, her guitar, and Jaco on bass. Lyrically though they are all outstanding in their own right, but I can appreciate that it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing for ya. As for categorizing Hejira, it's uncategorizable. It's just "Joni" music. Bob NP: The Sundays, "Through The Dark" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:03:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation Em wrote: is it more like DJRD or more like Hejira? or impossible to tell..anyway I'd say it has more in common with Hejira. I had never really listened to HOSL until about a year ago and when I did, it made so much sense that this was the album that came between Court and Spark and Hejira - like a piece of a puzzle snapping into place. It shares a lot musically with both, but is it's own unique genius. I say go for it Em. For years and years, Hejira, was without a doubt my 'desert-island' disc. Now HOSL gives it a run for the money. Jenny Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:18:05 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: parents - Joni was a bad seed! **A friend who knows someone who knows Myrtle told me that Joni has been nothing but a disappointment to her mother. Is that not crazy? It certainly causes much rolling of the eyes, but I can totally understand it from her Mom's perspective. I mean, look at the record: - -Started piano lessons as a child but quit because she was undisciplined; - -Enjoyed art in school but was otherwise a poor student; - -Took up smoking at age 9; - -Started Art College but quit and (basically)ran away from home; - -Two marriages, both ending in divorce - -Provided no grandchildren (until WAY after the fact) - -A series of public love affairs - -Sloppy housekeeper (ever seen her art studio?) And these are just the things that Myrtle would have known about. Assuming that she attaches little merit to fame & fortune, it's pretty easy to see why she's disappointed in how Joni turned out, especially when people are going to "blame" the parents. Now don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that Myrtle is right in her disappointment at all, just that I can see where she's coming from. When you judge someone based on YOUR expectations of what you want them to be rather than what they are, there's always going to be a huge chasm I think. And on the other hand, maybe she perceives her daughter as an unhappy person, and all she wants for her is happiness. Bob NP: The Sundays, "Goodbye" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:37:45 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Jonifest 2004 VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hi Gang!! For any of you who may not know me, I'm Donna Binkley and am the registrar for Jonifest 2004. As such, my job is to remind everyone of deposits and monetary deadlines for Jonifest, so you will be hearing much more from me during the next few weeks/months. As a reminder, all deposits and all remaining balances are due on JUNE 15, 2004!!!!!! Only 1 month away. Also, for those of you who will be flying, something I noticed last year was that during June-August, when school is out, flight prices seemed to soar compared to other times of the year. I just wanted to put that out there so that maybe you can save a few bucks on your flight by booking sooner rather than later. We are going to have a wonderful time again this year so get your forms filled out and your money in NOW! For complete information on Jonifest 2004 go to www.jmdl.com. Please join us in making this the best Jonifest ever! Love, Donna This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 20:33:08 +0200 From: "Ron" Subject: Re: the horror (njc) hi unfortunately, in war or near war situations, people tend to do things they normally wouldnt do otherwise. one has to wonder whether the situation incites people to do these things, or merely provides them with the opportunity to release what they really are. sadly enough i think its the latter. when we had conscription here, it was really horrific hearing what people i knew did, mmm lets see - suicides, serious psychological damage from drugs (believe it or not, it seems that marijuana was the worst culprit for permanent psychotic damage - bearing in mind that SA marijuana has the highest THC content in the world), prison sentences for all sorts of offence from drugs, to theft, to car theft, car accidents, aircraft accidents, shooting accidents, mm one guy even got shot dead breaking into a shop to steal some sweets, and even murder (2 people i knew personally committed murder) what a waste of some truly beautiful people. wouldnt it be nice if we could just stop all armys,,,, [sigh - just a dream some of us had] if we put all that expense and effort into something poductive ron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 20:36:10 +0200 From: "Ron" Subject: Re: Cross your Teas? Dot your eyes? Corrected Email-NJC mmm susan, i think brown acid *would* be required to buy tickets for shrek2 ron - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Guzzi" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:19 AM Subject: Re: Cross your Teas? Dot your eyes? Corrected Email-NJC > OK People need I remind you all these years later? Stay away from the brown acid - I repeat do not drop the brown acid! > > Umm did I get slipped the acid here or did you Suzanne? > > Ahh well maybe it is just the time of year ... > > Peace, > Susan > > Suzanne MarcAurele wrote: > Sell Vic o den C al is angle is morp hic mistress ail? Er on doc il canton > monitor berline, Socrates nu crimp ginsburg noontime Shreveport republican > debris crone be late. Contract Laurent home - Hollingsworth beg locomotory > indiscretion, dessicate collateral Andorra, infighting beatify Ritchie heal, > banister chartroom greedy surgeon - passion gal incongruous > Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 19:44:51 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Shameless self promotion (NJC) Hi Jonilistas! I need your help. I am trying to get some exposure in a jazz vocalist contest and I need as many people as possible tocheck out the site. I would love to have your vote but only if you feel I am deserving of it. Some of you asked to be updated privately so this will be a repeat request. Up until recently, I would have thought nothing of sabotaging myself doing something like this, but I am happy to say that I'm beginning to get past that. You have to believe in yourself first and foremost. I was listening to an interview with James Taylor (thank you Jim!) and he ended up going to England to find the break he needed. He ended up being signed by someone who was involved with the Beatles at the time in 1968 I believe and the rest is history. I have found as many of you who are artists have also found that it is a struggle but with a few good people standing behind you and believing in you, anything can be accomplished. So thank you in advance anyone who would like to check out the jazz vocalist competition. If you have any trouble finding my name, please contact me off list. Thanks again! Love, Sherelle http://www.jazzconnect.com/competition/ _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #221 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)