From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #218 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, May 12 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 218 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum [Catherine McKay ] Anyone near Atlanta?? (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Cross your Teas? Dot your eyes? Corrected Email-NJC ["Suzanne MarcAurele"] FW: todd rundgren review - njc ["patrick leader" ] Article on Wayne Shorter NJC [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: Cross your Teas? Dot your eyes? Corrected Email-NJC [Susan Guzzi ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 21:51:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum --- tantra_apso wrote: > Parent /child issues usually > last a lifetime. Even when one is able to do 'the > work' and deal with it, it > is still an issue and still has it's affect. Tho if > one does do the work, you > can live well despite it. In this case, I mean that > if Joni had come to terms > with this, she could have that relationship with > another adult and not let the > parent/child issue interfere to the extent it ruins > what she has. [...] > Today, with therapy and 'issue awareness' it seems > people have come to the > erroneous conclusion that a time in therapy or > dealing with 'issues' in some > way, consigns the issues and their affects to the > dustbin. Not so. All it does > is enable one to live more effectively WITH the > issues. It does not get rid of > them. It gives one more voices, more choices. [...] Issues that come about > in young childhood are never vanquished and in times > of stress of just out of > the blue can cause chaos no matter one's age. Just > paying for fuel, to be > confronted by a person who thru no fault of their > own, just reminds you of an > abuser, subconsiously, can drastically alter > behaviour and fuck up the day! > Any number of situations, words used, mannerisms, > events, can have resonance > with past events and cause one to relive those > negative events over and over, > aware or not. It is the awareness, or learning to be > aware, that can make all > the difference and whilst it would not stop such > regressions, or flashbacks, > it can lessen their impact. Colin, this really hit home with me, as I'm sure it does for many. It is truly amazing how strong the bonds are between parents and children. Even in cases where there is no abuse, there may be one parent (or maybe both) who is a very strong figure that the child looks up to and fears in a way. It may be that the person has such a strong personality and seems to be *right* and *perfect* in every way, and doesn't demonstrate a lot of, or any, flexibility, and a child who is sensitive may constantly be trying to live up to that parent's expectations. I, for one, remember being a child who never wanted to make any mistakes. Everything I did had to be well done - perfect, if at all possible. I suspect Myrtle was, and is, that sort of parent - someone with very strong values and a strong sense of what is right and wrong, who simply can't see the possibility that there may be other ways of doing things that are equally valid. The very fact that Joni is still dealing with her mother's reaction to her "living in sin" when she's in her 50s in "Face Lift" makes this pretty clear: I shouldn't have come She made me pay For gleaming with Donald down her street She put blame on him And shame on me and: ...after all, she introduced us Oh, but she regrets that now Shacked up downtown Making love without a license Same old sacred cow She said, "Did you come home to disgrace us?" I said, "Why is this joy not allowed? For God's sake, I'm middle-aged, Mama Earlier, in "Let the wind carry me", she is very clear about how her mother is - a woman with a very rigid view of what is right or wrong. Nothing the daughter does pleases Mama, and everything can be solved by cleaning: Papa's faith is in people Mama she's always cleaning Papa brought home the sugar Mama taught me the deeper meaning ... She don't like my kick pleat skirt She don't like my eyelids painted green She don't like me staying up late In my high-heeled shoes Living for that rock 'n' roll dancing scene ... Mama thinks she spoilt me Papa knows somehow he set me free Mama thinks she spoilt me rotten She blames herself But papa he blesses me It's a rough road to travel Mama let go now It's always called for me I do hope Joni has a good therapist! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 21:52:53 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Anyone near Atlanta?? (NJC) I'm going to be in Atlanta this weekend and have some free time Saturday during the day. Any JMDLers living near there that would like to get together for awhile? Please e-mail off list if you are interested. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:17:08 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum Catherine writes: << I, for one, remember being a child who never wanted to make any mistakes. >> Holy Jesus, Catherine! What happened? Catherine also says: << Earlier, in "Let the wind carry me", she is very clear about how her mother is - a woman >> This is interesting insight, Catherine. I never thought of the lyrics that way before. Thanks for sharing that! Catherine ends with: << I do hope Joni has a good therapist! >> *A* good therapist? Honey, the woman needs a psychiatric pit crew on call 24/7. But hey! Who am I to judge. XO, - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:26:59 -0400 From: "Suzanne MarcAurele" Subject: Cross your Teas? Dot your eyes? 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Crane: co tangent murmer"sequential bright on". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 23:11:51 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: FW: todd rundgren review - njc hey folks: bob muller had mentioned that rundgren had a new (and good) album out, and god knows i'm still a huge fan. i bought it over the weekend and finally gave it a listen last night (not like the old days, when i'd have run home after buying an album to give it the first listen). while my first impression was positive, i'm going to have to give it a few more listens. his voice is in fantastic shape though. but imagine my shock when i saw a review in this week's new yorker. the magazine barely ever does reviews, probably an average of less than one per issue, classical and pop combined. and it's a very positive review, though i disagree with the reviewer's contention that nothing in rundgren's last 15 years has been worthy. 1993's 'no world order' was nearly brilliant. http://newyorker.com/goingson/recordings/?040517gore_GOAT_recordings this album definitely has some good listening. patrick np - todd rundgren, liars - future "the child is so sweet, and the girls are so rapturous. isn't it lovely how artists can capture us?" 'children and art', from sondheim's 'sunday in the park with george' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 01:03:36 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Article on Wayne Shorter NJC Well, some Joni content, but given the sensitive nature of that recently, I'll go with NJC. http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2004/06/davis.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:19:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Cross your Teas? Dot your eyes? Corrected Email-NJC OK People need I remind you all these years later? Stay away from the brown acid - I repeat do not drop the brown acid! Umm did I get slipped the acid here or did you Suzanne? Ahh well maybe it is just the time of year ... Peace, Susan Suzanne MarcAurele wrote: Sell Vic o den C al is angle is morp hic mistress ail? Er on doc il canton monitor berline, Socrates nu crimp ginsburg noontime Shreveport republican debris crone be late. Contract Laurent home - Hollingsworth beg locomotory indiscretion, dessicate collateral Andorra, infighting beatify Ritchie heal, banister chartroom greedy surgeon - passion gal incongruous Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 23:53:02 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum > Hard to imagine an adult woman in her 50's who still has such serious issues with her Mom.< This always takes me a step further to wonder about the mom & what her issues were with her paretns... At least that is how I came to terms with understanding my parents more... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #218 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)