From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #217 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, May 11 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 217 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- dying little retards NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Joni's music & lovemaking ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Joni's music & lovemaking ["Wally Kairuz" ] em discovers joni's hardy perennials njc [magsnbrei ] Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Joni's music & lovemaking [Em ] Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum ["tantra_apso" ] Offer Closed: Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 11-20 of JM Covers [Do] RE: Joni's music & lovemaking [Jenny Goodspeed ] RE: Joni's music & lovemaking/now NJC [Em ] actually..lovemaking music njc [Em ] Re: songs about women and/or men [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Furry [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Joni's music & lovemaking/now NJC [Jenny Goodspeed ] RE: Song for Sharon/Kate ["Maggie McNally" ] RE: Joni Mitchell Centre will bring rides, cash influx to area NJC ["Magg] Re: is it just ME???? [Lori Fye ] Re: Furry [Lori Fye ] Re: Furry [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Furry [Lori Fye ] Re: Furry [Em ] Re: Hejira ["Kate Cox" ] Re: Hejira [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] backup vocals sfs ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Furry [Lori Fye ] FW: Register to Vote at FriendsofHillary.com(NJC) ["anon anon" ] Song for Sharon ["G'n H" ] NJC I heard the news today (oh boy) ["Maggie McNally" ] RE: Joni's music & lovemaking [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Re: Nick Berg -NJC and yet should de-drug everyone [Catherine McKay Subject: dying little retards NJC this made me laugh laugh laugh so hard! and it's only 7 am! *(...)*, not sure what my name is, it's so early. > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > Smurfycopy@aol.com > Enviado el: Lunes, 10 de Mayo de 2004 10:47 p.m. > Para: mm@celebrityseries.org; Smurfycopy@aol.com; ljirvin@jmdl.com; > joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: Joni Mitchell Centre will bring rides, cash influx to area > NJC > > > About me, Maggie writes: > > << Aren't we all glad to see that the little blue man (getting > littler by the > day, I might add) is keeping his writing chops up? >> > > Maggie, dear, why are you talking about me like I'm a dying retard? > > Scared, > > --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:29:16 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni's music & lovemaking i have done some SERIOUS slow dancing to blue motel room (in fact, my DJ friend turned it into quite a fashionable track at a local gay club) but always found joni a little castrating as background music for sex. i mean, i can't imagine myself in the middle of a f-ing and s-ing session ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:32:36 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni's music & lovemaking hit it too soon. i was going too write that i can't imagine myself in a room full of bears and all of a sudden you hear little green or the sire of sorrow or something like that. *W* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 03:55:01 -0700 (PDT) From: magsnbrei Subject: em discovers joni's hardy perennials njc I didn't discover this little secret about the Hejira cover until I joined this list over four years ago Em, so no worries...you're in good company. I think the listers who have been here for a while love to hear reactions to the little gems that are in store for you as you make your own discoveries..including your most recent bewilderment about that thang on the cover . Em can you find the other two 'hardy perennials" on two of Joni's other albums? (good one there Azeem ;-) mischievous Mags ;-) np: i see something of myself in everyone.... .....brilliant brilliant lyrics, music, insights, imagery, love this album more and more as time goes on.... alt: (also listening to) Brei's story about the acquisition of the Hissing Demos on South Street , Phila. ***** your absence has gone through me like thread through a needle everything i do is stitched with its colour. w.s.merwin Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:17:56 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum **The love two adults share is quite different from the parent child love she was needing. That's a very valid point Colin, and I agree wholeheartedly. And then when you add into THAT the fact that she was a mother in her own right who was never able to nurture her own child, it really makes for a whirlwind of emotional turbulence and potentially arrested development. I'm no psychiatrist, but even in my ignorance I can only guess how many things you'd have to work through with that kind of combo. I'll never forget the video of Joni at the opening of her Mendel exhibition, with Bill & Myrtle sitting by the podium. Her Dad was just smiling and beaming, looking so proud of Joni, while her Mom looked very uncomfortable and seemed to stare out into the adoring crowd without a clus as to why all these people were making such a fuss over such a rebellious child. That clip really does tell the whole story, as does "Face Lift" as you say. Hard to imagine an adult woman in her 50's who still has such serious issues with her Mom. Bob NP: Frannie Verney & The Big Idea, "Rainy Night House" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 05:26:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: RE: Joni's music & lovemaking - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > hit it too soon. i was going too write that i can't imagine myself in > a room > full of bears and all of a sudden you hear little green or the sire > of > sorrow or something like that. > *W* yeah if I had to hear "Marcie's sorrow needs a man" while , err, "trying"...I would pretty much get a boo boo face and it would be like a bucket of cold water to the crotch. But you know what?? I for one - don't need JM's music to be there "for that". So its no problem for me. I also prefer silence for this activity. Guess my brain is limited. Good morning everyone! as Bruce Cockburn sang, "may your boots always fit". Em ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:05:57 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum / ----- Original Message ----- From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com To: tantraapso@btopenworld.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:17 PM Subject: Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum **The love two adults share is quite different from the parent child love she was needing. Hard to imagine an adult woman in her 50's who still has such serious issues with her Mom. Me: Not really. Everyone has issues of some sort. Parent /child issues usually last a lifetime. Even when one is able to do 'the work' and deal with it, it is still an issue and still has it's affect. Tho if one does do the work, you can live well despite it. In this case, I mean that if Joni had come to terms with this, she could have that relationship with another adult and not let the parent/child issue interfere to the extent it ruins what she has. It will always be there and always have the ability to cause waves, large or small, but it's power would be very much diminished if dealt with. Today, with therapy and 'issue awareness' it seems people have come to the erroneous conclusion that a time in therapy or dealing with 'issues' in some way, consigns the issues and their affects to the dustbin. Not so. All it does is enable one to live more effectively WITH the issues. It does not get rid of them. It gives one more voices, more choices. For example, seeing young children with their parents, for someone whose young childhood was toubled, would likely cause a negative thought such as 'i wonder what those parents do when no one is looking'. With some work, that same thought may well still come but other more positive thoughts, such as 'isn't it good to see a child so loved' would also come and thus one has more balance. Issues that come about in young childhood are never vanquished and in times of stress of just out of the blue can cause chaos no matter one's age. Just paying for fuel, to be confronted by a person who thru no fault of their own, just reminds you of an abuser, subconsiously, can drastically alter behaviour and fuck up the day! Any number of situations, words used, mannerisms, events, can have resonance with past events and cause one to relive those negative events over and over, aware or not. It is the awareness, or learning to be aware, that can make all the difference and whilst it would not stop such regressions, or flashbacks, it can lessen their impact. Another reason why people can be of advanced years and still have the same issue untouched, is because many people find it very diffilcut to let go of hope. Hope that the parent will one day grant their approval, or their love, or will become aware of their wrongdoing. That hope is extremely powerful, that dream is very very hard to let go but it is often necessary to let go of such hope in order to free oneself from that never to be satisfied hunger. It is the same reason people stay locked in relationships(of any kind, but especially child to parent) with parents who are so obivously toxic. The hope that they will change is powerful, or more frequently, the belief that 'if i could only change they woul love me', is powerful. The realisation that a person's parent is not good is also too much to bear so they continue playing the agonizing game. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:12:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Furry was just looking to look at the Hejira cover online while I am supposed to be working at work, and happened upon this page about Furry Lewis. http://www.wirz.de/music/lewisfrm.htm Have any of you all seen this? Is this "old hat" to you? Sorry if so...just thought I'd throw it out there. lurv, Em ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:14:44 -0400 From: Doug Subject: Offer Closed: Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 11-20 of JM Covers Look for Emiliano to re-offer soon. Doug ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:17:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: RE: Joni's music & lovemaking Em wrote: Good morning everyone! as Bruce Cockburn sang, "may your boots always fit". Em, I looove that song! I play it when I'm having a tough time dragging my butt to work in the morning. I still maintain there are a few of Joni tunes that aren't mood killers. But I'm wired to respond to gorgeous chord progressions (really a major 7th can just slay me lol) and can tune out lyrics pretty easily. Jenny Em wrote: - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > hit it too soon. i was going too write that i can't imagine myself in > a room > full of bears and all of a sudden you hear little green or the sire > of > sorrow or something like that. > *W* yeah if I had to hear "Marcie's sorrow needs a man" while , err, "trying"...I would pretty much get a boo boo face and it would be like a bucket of cold water to the crotch. But you know what?? I for one - don't need JM's music to be there "for that". So its no problem for me. I also prefer silence for this activity. Guess my brain is limited. Good morning everyone! as Bruce Cockburn sang, "may your boots always fit". Em ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:25:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: RE: Joni's music & lovemaking/now NJC - --- Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > Em, I looove that song! I play it when I'm having a tough time > dragging my butt to work in the morning. Morning Jenny! and "may you always have air"! yeah thats my only song file I have at work, so I play it every morning when I get here. I like the idea (which is certainly not original to BC) that the "wind gonna rise and blow those blues away". Helps me too. > I still maintain there are a few of Joni tunes that aren't mood > killers. But I'm wired to respond to gorgeous chord progressions > (really a major 7th can just slay me lol) and can tune out lyrics > pretty easily. a major 7th??? hmmm, neanderthal guitarist that I am can only think of like when you play a D7 or E7 or G7 or whatever.... a little bluesy feel sometimes....is that what you mean?? or something toally diff? :) Amazon.com (tells me they) just shipped us a Madreblu CD, all in Italian, nice sounding music...perhaps it would be worth a try making love to Italian, wouldn't understand much, might be quite condusive. Em ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:42:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: actually..lovemaking music njc have been trying hard to think of some stuff... seems some early Airplane stuff "Coming Back to Me" or "Triad" (yum) by either them or Crosby, OR "Music Is Love" by Crosby, actually that whole "If I Could Only Remember My Name" album would be GREAT for that. oh hell why I am I thinking of this AT WORK?????? :( Em ps how about "Will To Love" by Neil? ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:43:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: songs about women and/or men Interesting points Bruce - In fact, I'd rather sit here and think about this all morning than do my actual work. In a lot of ways Joni identified more with being 'one of the boys' or at least made an effort to not adhere to stereotypical gender roles. Harry's House reflects that - these two people trapped in their traditional roles who are utterly unsatisfied. And thinking of Shades of Scarlett - which is a scathing description of this woman - who has this feminine facade masking a kind of ruthlessness and darkness. I've listened to this trying to find an ounce of empathy - does Joni identify with this woman in some small way. To my ears she doesn't. Joni captures the complexity of being human (using so few words). I mean I think that's why we will listen to Hejira and HOSL the rest of our natural lives and always here something new. Jenny Bruce Kimerer wrote: It seems to me that JM was equally skilled in writing about women and men. Many times she deals with both perspectives in the same song. And both are treated with candor and an unflinching dedication to honesty rather than an expected/fashionable PC POV. HOSL is full of complicated relationships. Harry's House seems now to me to be, poignantly, about Harry. I remember when I first knew and loved the song I felt, in accordance with the times, that it was about a woman who had been made an object by an ambitious, corporate-success-hungry husband -- "nothings's any good" because he has essentially abandoned her, left to choose wallpaper instead of allowing her to be self-actuated. Now I hear it as something very different -- about a woman who got who she wanted but is still not satisfied, while her husband does what he needs to do to provide her with what she wants. JM provides the knowing kicker: "Shining as she reeled him in." Harry is still smitten (Centerpiece) by a woman who keeps reeling him in by his fond memories and her complaints. Nothing's any good. Joni has always treated men and women with the same no-bullshit eye. Bruce PS. My only complaint is when JM opts for generalizations rather than specifics. Her very best work is always like a short story, not a statement on an issue or a re-imagining of another text. Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:44:32 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Furry Furry Sings The Blues is an autobiographical song about Joni visiting Furry Lewis in Memphis. He was pretty pissed when it came out and he wasn't compensated in any way: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=107 Bob NP: Sting, "The Hounds of Winter" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:53:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: RE: Joni's music & lovemaking/now NJC Em wrote: a major 7th??? hmmm, neanderthal guitarist that I am can only think of like when you play a D7 or E7 or G7 or whatever.... a little bluesy feel sometimes....is that what you mean?? or something toally diff? Major 7ths are different. Think of 'Help Me'. That's just chock full of them. I love that blow your blues away line too... I think it's adapted from a traditional blues tune/ James Taylor's 'Circle Around the Sun' has the same kind of thing going on: "I know that sun rise is gonna shine in my backyard some day...and that wind's just bound to rise up and blow all my blues away.' oh right work! I'm bad this morning. Jenny Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:02:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: RE: Joni's music & lovemaking/now NJC - --- Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > Major 7ths are different. Think of 'Help Me'. That's just chock > full of them. Gotcha! those ones that go "braaannnnnggggggg"... > I love that blow your blues away line too... I think it's adapted > from a traditional blues tune/ James Taylor's 'Circle Around the > Sun' has the same kind of thing going on: "I know that sun rise is > gonna shine in my backyard some day...and that wind's just bound to > rise up and blow all my blues away.' Also, "I Know You Rider" (by Hot Tuna and others)...probably many more too... > oh right work! I'm bad this morning. Me too, apparently..... ah well, thanks for the good conversation.. Em ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:14:24 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: Song for Sharon/Kate AB-SO-LUTE-LY!!! Reason enough to come to Jonifest, and there are soooooo many more. x, Maggie - -----Original Message----- From: AsharaJM@aol.com [mailto:AsharaJM@aol.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 4:26 PM To: emzdogz@yahoo.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Song for Sharon/Kate Em wrote: <> Oh Em, I have a MUCH better idea! Come to Jonifest and WIN "Woman of Heart and Mind" from the RAFFLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right, Maggie???? :-) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:32:34 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell Centre will bring rides, cash influx to area NJC Because you're so cute and blue, and that's what happens to cute, blue beings...they are talked about as though they were not in the room - kind of like...oh, never mind, I'm going to get myself into a heap of trouble. - -----Original Message----- From: Smurfycopy@aol.com [mailto:Smurfycopy@aol.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 8:47 PM To: Maggie McNally; Smurfycopy@aol.com; ljirvin@jmdl.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell Centre will bring rides, cash influx to area NJC About me, Maggie writes: << Aren't we all glad to see that the little blue man (getting littler by the day, I might add) is keeping his writing chops up? >> Maggie, dear, why are you talking about me like I'm a dying retard? Scared, - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:24:24 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: is it just ME???? Quoting Rick: > It is very obviously her left arm with a thin metal bracelet on it, sticking > out from under her fur coat and disappearing into a slit pocket which is now > obscured by the asphalt of the highway. Or ... it is a "boom boom pachyderm." ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:30:55 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Furry Bob wrote: > Furry Sings The Blues is an autobiographical song about Joni > visiting Furry Lewis in Memphis. > He was pretty pissed when it came out and he wasn't compensated > in any way: I don't have time to read the article just now, but I want to know this: why did Furry Lewis think he deserved "compensation"?? Since when must a songwriter compensate someone for writing about them? Or is this a standard practice? Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:39:06 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Furry I think Joni's song tells us why. He was used to people bringing him booze and cigarettes to get him to talk and play about the old days. He loved the bribes. He lived in poverty all his life and thought he deserved compensation of some kind. Jerry > Bob wrote: > >> Furry Sings The Blues is an autobiographical song about Joni >> visiting Furry Lewis in Memphis. >> He was pretty pissed when it came out and he wasn't compensated >> in any way: > > I don't have time to read the article just now, but I want to know this: why > did Furry Lewis think he deserved "compensation"?? Since when must a > songwriter compensate someone for writing about them? Or is this a standard > practice? > > Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:54:30 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Furry Jerry answered my query: > I think Joni's song tells us why. He was used to people bringing him booze > and cigarettes to get him to talk and play about the old days. He loved the > bribes. He lived in poverty all his life and thought he deserved > compensation of some kind. Okay, I'll buy that. But I can't imagine that Joni wouldn't share a smoke with him! : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:08:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Furry - --- Lori Fye wrote: > Okay, I'll buy that. But I can't imagine that Joni wouldn't share a > smoke with > him! : ) yeah, I'm kinda hoping she maybe slipped him a couple grand after a while. Under the table, so as not to set a legal precedent perhaps. "WWJD"? puhleeeze.....just kiddin'.. Em ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:16:47 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Re: Hejira Bob wrote: >But to take that Joni lyric a step further..."the well was deep and muddy". >Now, you can certainly take that literally that the woman drowned herself in a >well, but you can also interpret it as meaning that the "well" of her life was >a deep dark quagmire from which she felt no escape other than suicide was >possible. Even on the surface it's a great lyric, but when you start to peel >layers...oh, my. And Hell wrote: >Here's a classic example of why I love this list - I'd never even thought of >the "well" in that context before. It was always a literal thing to me, but >it does make a lot of sense. I should have known better from the queen of >"duality" I guess, especially since SFS is one of my favourite songs. But >there's just so much depth to this album - in every song - that maybe I just >haven't lived long enough to decipher it all yet! Joni's song-writing >career may well be over, but personally, the exploration of what she has >written is far from over! It also makes sense that if her life was the "well" that was "deep and muddy", that she would be "shaking off futility". In other words, shaking off the mud. I really think you are right about this Bob. That verse has a different mood from the rest of the song, and it seems to be set apart by its mournful backing vocals. I have to say I think Joni is the absolute queen of backing vocals, as well as Hell's "queen of duality". When those heavenly backing vocals kick in after "they can balance and they can climb", it is honestly one of the best moments in the history of music, in my opinion! (Challenged only by 'laughing it all away' in People's Parties). Now, I've always wondered, do you think she is actually enunciating anything in the Song for Sharon backing vocals? Someone once asked me if she was saying "Be the leader". Until that point, I'd just assumed it was dee-dee-dee-da, oh dee-dee-dee-dee-dah! Another lyrics point... and I know this is going to me make me look really thick... when I first got into Hejira I only had it on tape, and there were no lyrics in the case. When I bought it on CD, I found I had got some of the lyrics wrong, and one of them was in that verse. I thought the woman she knew who had just drowned herself was "shaking off FERTILITY or punishing somebody". i thought it fitted in really well with the rest of the song, the fact that Joni had rejected her pre-ordained role as a wife and mother by having a career, but her friend could only shake it off by killing herself. Has that ever happened to anyone else? You've related to a lyric really, really passionately, and then it turns out to be wrong? This seems to happen to me quite a lot...maybe I should get my ears checked... Oh Bob, what you said about "It's cloud illusions I recall" connecting to "I've spent my whole life in clouds at icy altitudes" really made my heart jolt! I LOVE the way she does that, she connects her later songs to her earlier ones, like the Cactus Tree theme. It makes you realise that however much she changes her style and her perceptions about life, this is still a continuous narrative, still the same woman, whose "life is for learning". Love Kate C - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stay in touch better and keep protected online with MSNs NEW all-in-one Premium Services. Find out more here. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:32:35 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira **Oh Bob, what you said about "It's cloud illusions I recall" connecting to "I've spent my whole life in clouds at icy altitudes" really made my heart jolt! ** Hey, great! Nice to know that I've still got it in me to do that! :~) In regards to the backup vocals, I've never heard anything other than just the syllabic chant, no specific lyrics. I think it would be distracting, and the song certainly has enough words anyway! (Joni herself opined while singing it in New Orleans in 1995, "This song has a lot of words!") The only thing I can compare your fertility/fultility to is in "In France They Kiss On Main Street", I thought "Lead-Foot Melvin" was "Liquid Melvin", and that he got that nickname by being able to seep into any car and hotwire it, like liquid seeping through a crack. And now I've sung liquid so many times I STILL sing 'liquid' instead of 'lead-foot'. And regarding Joni tying lyrics together from albums that are years apart, I always found it interesting that she mentions my birthyear 1957 in 2 songs, Raised On Robbery & Come In From The Cold. And of course the Betsy who wants her to find a charity in SfS who is Blue in Moon At The Window. It makes her albums read like journal entries almost at times, which helps us to personalize them as well I would think. Bob NP: Sting & Gil Evans, "Synchronicity" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:28:38 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: backup vocals sfs to me, it's always sounded like "little, little, only a little little..." *W* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:09:01 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Furry Em wrote: > "WWJD"? What Would Joni Do? ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:03:39 -0400 From: "anon anon" Subject: FW: Register to Vote at FriendsofHillary.com(NJC) >From: "Hillary Rodham Clinton" >Reply-To: "Friends of Hillary" > >To: Icnh@hotmail.com >Subject: Register to Vote at FriendsofHillary.com >Date: 11 May 2004 11:06:47 PDT > >Dear Friends, > >When the 19th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was ratified in 1920, some >17 million women finally gained the right to vote in national elections. > >In the election of 2000, more than twice that number - more than 38 million >women - could have registered and voted, but instead chose to stay home. >Since more women who did vote chose Al Gore, there is no question in my >mind that if more women had voted on that first Tuesday in November, >America would have more jobs, less pollution, more health care and stronger >alliances around the world today. > >Simply put, the suffragists who fought so hard to win for women the right >to vote - courageous women like Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony >- would be ashamed of how many millions of women fail to exercise that >right in our time. > >"There never will be complete equality until women themselves help to make >laws and elect lawmakers," Anthony said. But where once women were >prohibited by men from doing just that, today too many women are >disenfranchising themselves. > >And too many young people, too many people of color and too many citizens >of all colors and ages and backgrounds are denying themselves an >opportunity to shape our future. For example, 31 million young people who >can register and vote don't. More than a million young New Yorkers fall >into that category. That's a tragedy, especially given how much their lives >will be affected by people they did not work to elect or defeat. > >We can see in the news every day what's at stake, and how important it is >for all of us to get more involved in choosing the next president of the >United States and the women and men who will sit in Congress and serve in >state capitols. > >That's why I want to do all I can to ensure that as many people as possible >register to vote. Unless more people clear that hurdle, our ability to "get >out the vote" on Election Day is limited. So I am proud to announce that my >website is launching a direct link for people who want to register to vote. >One click and you're able to fill out official forms to become a voter, >change your registration if you've moved, or request an absentee ballot. >All you have to do is print the forms out and mail them in. > >If you want to learn how to register to vote, if you've moved and need to >change your registration, or if you need to request an absentee ballot, >check it out now. www.friendsofhillary.com > >And whether you're registered or not, please do me this favor: forward my >e-mail to at least 10 of your friends in case they or anyone they know >needs to register to vote and make it your mission to register at least one >person through this website. By taking this simple step, you can help bring >more people to the polls, and bring better leadership to America. > >If each of you registers just one person through this site, we will make a >difference. > >If the men of 1920 knew that 38 million women in 2000 would sit on their >hands instead of getting out to vote, I wonder whether they would have >ratified the 19th Amendment. And if the elected officials of 1971 knew how >many millions of young people didn't vote in the last presidential >election, would they have been so willing to ratify the 26th Amendment, >which lowered the voting age to 18? > >Let's turn the tide in 2004 and register a record number of new voters, and >get more voters out to vote on Election Day. Nothing less than the future >direction of our country is at stake. > >Sincerely, > >Hillary Rodham Clinton > >P.S. Don't forget to forward this e-mail to at least 10 of your friends so >they can register to vote, or help spread the word about the urgent need to >get more people registered and out to the polling places on Election Day. >Thank you! > >P.P.S. To view my remarks to more than 1000 of Chicago's young people on >the importance of voting click here: > >Windows Media: http://activate.friendsofhillary.com/t?ctl=663B54:201A266 >Real: http://activate.friendsofhillary.com/t?ctl=663B52:201A266 >Quicktime: http://activate.friendsofhillary.com/t?ctl=663B53:201A266 >Read Text: http://activate.friendsofhillary.com/t?ctl=663B55:201A266 > > > >PS - Please help spread the word by forwarding this message to your friends >and family! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >If you feel you have received this message in error, we apologize. To >unsubscribe from HillNews, click here: >http://activate.friendsofhillary.com/u?id=89E81130C38D13D3A9D231FB8A1D461F&global=true > > > > >To view the Friends of Hillary Privacy Policy, please visit: >http://activate.friendsofhillary.com/t?ctl=663B56:201A266 > > > >Contributions to Friends of Hillary are not deductible for federal income >tax purposes > >Paid for by Friends of Hillary, 1717 K Street, NW, Washington, D.C. 20036 > > _________________________________________________________________ Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life Events. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:42:40 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Furry Lori Fye wrote: > Jerry answered my query: > > > I think Joni's song tells us why. He was used to people bringing him booze > > and cigarettes to get him to talk and play about the old days. He loved the > > bribes. He lived in poverty all his life and thought he deserved > > compensation of some kind. > > Okay, I'll buy that. But I can't imagine that Joni wouldn't share a smoke with > him! : ) Since she says "we're only welcome for our drink and smoke," I have to wonder if she was refering to pot. She is very succinct with her words. "Smokes" is slang for cigarettes; "smoke" is slang for weed. Maybe she was just rhyming with "joke", though she says it earlier, too, when she could have said "smokes"; "You bring him smoke and drink and he'll play for you" And of course, reefer was popular amongst the jazz and blues artists of the "heyday". Part of the reason it was made illegal. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 00:45:10 +0300 From: "G'n H" Subject: Song for Sharon Oh, I just get so agitaded when talking about SFS, the song that makes me to fall in tears every time I listen to it. How great it is to see that so many of you feel the same way and see the extreme beauty of this chiming pearl and of the whole Hejira (and of the whole Joni Mitchell). What a 8:38-"flash" about a life story that keeps on moving in searching love and makeing a pure poetry when discribing everything she sees / has seen. And leaving it all to the words of the 2nd verse of Psalm 23 (or that's how I've always understood the line "I'll walk green pastures by and by"). I can't raise any specific, prefered, line of the song, becouse it's full of incredibly beautiful things and thoughts that it gives me but that I'm not able to verbalize. But I love the "When we were kids in Maidstone, Sharon I went to every wedding in that little town To see the TEARS and the KISSES ", then the following verse "Mama's nylons underneath my cowgirl jeans He showed me first you get the KISSES And then you get the TEARS", in this order. What could be more true in love affairs... I think that song is one of the indications of Joni's genius. G'n H _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:52:05 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: NJC I heard the news today (oh boy) I am just sick about this latest episode in this dark and disturbing time...the beheading of an American hostage that was apparently videotaped and shown on the internet. But what I find equally disturbing is this quote from White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan: ''It shows the true nature of the enemies of freedom. They have no regard for the lives of innocent men, women and children. We will pursue those who are responsible and bring them to justice.'' Why do I find this equally disturbing? Because they are seeking to demonize "The Other," and to do so by claiming that they are people who are really like animals, and that those animals are different from us in that they have no regard for the lives of innocent men, women and children. I find this extremely ironic coming from an administration that has started a war that has killed countless civilians - men, women and children. The rest of the article that is right now on Boston.com contains a quote that I find chilling. "Gen. Ronald L. Burgess told Warner 'there has been an increase' in threats in the days since the prisoner abuse became known through the publication of photographs." It's the part where he says, "since (it) became known through the publication of photographs." I cannot but help but think that this will lead to the administration and the masters of war working even harder to squelch information and freedom of press, blaming the messengers for the escalation of danger, rather than putting blame on the true culprits. Maggie (Boston/Cambridge, USA) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 18:06:49 -0400 From: "Suzanne MarcAurele" Subject: Nick Berg -NJC and yet should de-drug everyone Hey how bout that be-heading - appropriate don't you think? How bout that repeated coverage on Arabic news organizations of Osama Bin Laden's news conference promising a full investigation? How bout all the apologies brought forth by Osama's top men condemning that barbaric act on a civilian? Heard bunches of people are lining up - aah what's the use you know everything... S. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 23:39:57 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Folk Music... A. Millington millsac@bigpond.com wrote: > There I was at the in-laws...... > and saw their old record collection and right at the back of the vinyl records > was....... > this box collection of 4 records called ELECTRIC MUSE ...the story of Folk > into Rock (1975?) The compiler hoped there would be a further >collection he could do for Island or Transatlantic?...so was there a part 2? and Em emzdogz@yahoo.com wrote: >Hi, just looked and Amazon.com has this available: >http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000086XN.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg >doesn't give any details though, as to who's on it, etc. Would love to >know! :) Here's a page with track listing on the original 1975 Island/ Transatlantic release http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/folk/records/electricmuse.html which, along with Fairport Convention's version of Chelsea Morning, also, I see, included many of my personal favourites at the time, including Bert Jansch (Blackwaterside), Jackson C. Frank (Blues Run the Game), Traffic (John Barleycorn), Davey Graham (Angi), Jack Elliott (Pretty Boy Floyd), John and Beverley Martyn (John the Baptist)....and on and on. In 1996 the UK label Castle Communications/Essential issued an up-dated 3-CD box set entitled 'New Electric Muse: The Story of Folk into Rock' ESB-CD 416 - see track listing & sleeve notes at http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/folk/records/newelectricmuse.html - - much the same track listing as the original vinyls but without FC's Chelsea Morning, but with some additions - including, I see, Sandy Denny's version of 'Bruton Town' (which was the first song I saw her perform live, doing a floor spot in a small cellar club in Greek Street - it was love at first sight!! and in 1997 - New Electric Muse II - The Continuing Story of Folk Into Rock Various Artists (Castle Communication ESB CD 517 [3 CD, UK, 1997]) see track listing & sleeve notes at http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/folk/records/newelectricmuse2.html >some of the tunes on this collection....did they influence Joni at all? Not sure what she would have heard in Saskatoon but Joni certainly influenced many of these artists in 'their' future recordings. From what I remember and what I've since read on the jmdl and elsewhere, Transatlantic and other UK labels were sent a demo tape of Joni's songs (before the UK release of STAS) and groups like Fairport were completely knocked out by her songs - Irish band The Johnstons (with Mick Maloney and Paul Brady) also recorded songs from this demo - found this in an interview with Mick Maloney in Dirty Linen see http://www.dirtynelson.com/linen/feature/48mick.html >Myself and Sean Corcoran used to go to the Irish Folklore >Commission in Stephen's Green and we used to research >songs in there.... We'd take songs from anywhere." The change >came later, when the corporate gurus at Transatlantic Records >saw a new potential in the group. "Because we were a four-part >harmony group," Moloney explains, "And the Seekers had just >disbanded, they felt that our road to fame and fortune would be >through contemporary material." The company loaded them >down with tapes of hundreds of songs every week. At one point >they came across a few nice numbers by someone they'd never >heard of. It was Joni Mitchell. "We recorded `Both Sides Now,' >and `The Urge for Going,' and we recorded a lot of Leonard Cohen >songs, a lot of Gordon Lightfoot songs." best to all PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 23:45:13 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: RE: Joni's music & lovemaking LOL! No I suppose 'Sex Kills' just doesn't go down well in that situation either! I would really like to hear 'Nothing Can Be Done' in a club, though. Apparently it was a minor hit in the clubs in the early 90's (according to Joni but I can't imagine where!) Much Joni Jamie Zoob Wally Kairuz wrote: hit it too soon. i was going too write that i can't imagine myself in a room full of bears and all of a sudden you hear little green or the sire of sorrow or something like that. *W* - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:05:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: "the horror" njc/ rambling.. might be dumb after all this nightmarish stuff, the Abu Graihb idiocy and perversion and the news today of an American being beheaded.... I have to think, because its the only conclusion that I can come to without possibly going nuts, that this stuff has always existed in war. Its just now, we "see" it. Because of the ease with which information and images are now disseminated. Surely during WWII some American or another was beheaded? And in fact we look back sometimes with some nostalgia to times when beheadings were commonplace. The other thing, is that with the bloody gory movies that have been viewed by zillions of American children over the last 15 years or so...a head hacked off? BFD, surely it didn't hurt. Kinda like when you get "killed" in a video game. I'm worried about our lack of sensitivity on one hand and I'm worried about over-sensitivity on the other hand, fueled by the stream of information. Do we really WANT to know?????? Is it going to make any difference?? I'm thinking only if war can be stopped before it starts. Because if it starts, there will be hell, whether we as media-watchers are privy to it or not. "War is hell", remember? So I refuse to be surprised anymore. Yeah the beheading made me gag, while I was eating the string beans and fat free pork chops and southern biscuits with palmetto wildflower honey, that my lover made for me tonight. But why should it...aren't I desensitized by the bloody flicks? Guess not. Hey they should have people like "us", on this list, fight the wars. We are pretty sensitive, is what I've noticed. "They" are apparently not. Need to try to not think about it - just vote how I think is right, and pray we get out. Do we need to see all this information? With the exception of the WWII Nazi fascist atrocities, we've pretty much been spared having to look at the war sh_t up to now. The only reason I was surprised at the Abu Graihb thing is the total WEIRDNESS of it. The Hieronymous Bosch-cum-Dante quality. The "weird scenes inside the goldmine" aspect. Not surprised there was abuse. There is abuse in this country too. We know this. In our own jails and prisons. And unfortunate people have been getting beheaded since forever. In any given scenario there are angels and villains. So I'm thinking we just shouldn't be surprised. I didn't want us to go, and I want us out. But I cannot be surprised by this stuff. Or let me just say, I no longer WISH to be surprised. sorry to have rambled.. Em ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 21:18:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Nick Berg -NJC and yet should de-drug everyone --- Suzanne MarcAurele wrote: > Hey how bout that be-heading - appropriate don't you > think? How bout that > repeated coverage on Arabic news organizations of > Osama Bin Laden's news > conference promising a full investigation? How bout > all the apologies > brought forth by Osama's top men condemning that > barbaric act on a civilian? > > Heard bunches of people are lining up - aah what's > the use you know > everything... > S. Reacting that way is condoning further violence and nastiness. You're basically saying, "We won't behave, if they won't behave - let them go first." I think somehow people expect more of America. I know I do. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 21:19:54 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "the horror" njc/ rambling.. might be dumb No, nothing dumb about it at all, Em. It's tragic. But to put a positive spin on it all...Bush's approval rate is at the LOWEST since he stole the election, so that's a good thing. My state Senator, Lindsey Graham typically walks the party line but seems to be distancing himself from the horrors of what this administration has brought on, or should I say what George asked the Iraqis to bring on. Rumsfeld's apology, even though he's a major weasel, was cool because it was at least an admission that things are not all cool. Mission NOT accomplished. Like an alcoholic, before you can SOLVE a problem, you have to admit there's a problem. I'd like to think this is one step in that direction. I don't think video games, movies, etc. have any desensitizing effect at all. I think just about everyone can distinguish between make-believe and reality. And I think everyone knows that all this horror is real. What I really don't get is how ANYBODY thinks we're more safe and secure in this kind of atmosphere. I can only imagine how the propaganda machine on the other side is using all of this video and photo material. Like Ani says, "agression begets agression". Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 21:27:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: "the horror" njc/ rambling.. might be dumb --- Em wrote: > after all this nightmarish stuff, the Abu Graihb > idiocy and perversion > and the news today of an American being beheaded.... > I have to think, because its the only conclusion > that I can come to > without possibly going nuts, that this stuff has > always existed in war. > Its just now, we "see" it. Because of the ease with > which information > and images are now disseminated. Exactly. We now have the ways and means to get this kind of news out there. In earlier wars, even as recent as WWII, there weren't TV crews out there. There was no TV. There might be some photographers, or newsreel film-makers, but more often, it was army artists, drawing pictures of what things were like. And there was massive censorship. There were no live feeds via satellite. Everything had to be hand-delivered somewhere and edited before it could be shown, days, weeks or even months after it happened. For one thing, how are you going to keep your side believing that what it's doing is right, if you see the human face of the other side? And, if you give out too much information, even to your own people, you could be giving something away to the enemy that could bring them down on you. They even used to censor the letters that soldiers sent home to their families - they weren't allowed to say where they were at any particular point. Now, we do have the means to get the information out there. In some ways, this could end up being a good thing, because it will make people more aware of just how horrible this stuff is. This is no game and all the rules we were taught as children, about sharing our toys and not hitting one another, suddenly go out the window in war, when killing people is suddenly OK. It simply doesn't make any sense. But, on the negative side, as you say, between the video games where killing is part of the fun and the fact that we're fed a constant stream of atrocity after atrocity, we could indeed become desensitized to it all. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #217 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)