From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #216 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, May 11 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 216 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_pro_choice=2C_quaker_football_--=A0njc?= ["Maggie Mc] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_4_May_1970_=A0NJC?= ["Maggie McNally" ] Re: lovemaking music, not [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] The best Joni cover... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Fwd: Re: lovemaking music, not NJC [hell@ihug.co.nz] RE: Fwd: Re: lovemaking music, not NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Hejira ["anon anon" ] Re: Fwd: Re: lovemaking music, not [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] RE: Folk music... now NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] is it just ME???? [Em ] Song for Sharon ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: is it just ME???? [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: is it just ME???? [Em ] Re: Hejira ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: is it just ME???? [Em ] (NJC) Bush: A blind man in a room full of deaf people (PC) ["Kate Bennett] NJC the banality of evil ["Kate Bennett" ] THOSL ["tantra_apso" ] Re: Hejira ["tantra-apso" ] Re: Hejira ["tantra-apso" ] Re: Joni's music & lovemaking [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: Hejira [Em ] Re: Hejira ["tantra-apso" ] Re: Joni's music & lovemaking ["tantra-apso" ] Re: Joni Mitchell Centre will bring rides, cash influx to area NJC [Smurf] Re: is it just ME???? [Rick ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:40:29 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_pro_choice=2C_quaker_football_--=A0njc?= My point exactly! Maggie Liebowitz Jacobson McNally - -----Original Message----- From: Smurfycopy@aol.com [mailto:Smurfycopy@aol.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 3:32 PM To: Maggie McNally; Smurfycopy@aol.com; Ricw1217@aol.com; kay.ashley@willis.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: pro choice, quaker football -- njc Maggie writes: << What were they called...the "Fighting Quakers!" They never saw that as ironic, either. Go figure. >> Yes, McNally. That seems so much more ironic than say, the "Fighting Irish!" XO, - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:14:48 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_4_May_1970_=A0NJC?= Yeah, Bob, that's you. Real simple. You and all the many other simpletons on this list who are scratching their heads and asking why, it's just that you're all a bunch of simple guys and gals who don't understand the ways of the world...which is why I love you all. Because you seek justice. Because you seek equality. Because you care about other human beings and are not afraid to take a stand and be counted among those who seek regime change at home and a peaceful world. I read the headlines this evening - President Bush's said today that Donald Rumsfeld is doing a "superb job" - and it makes me sick to my stomach. Maggie - -----Original Message----- From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com [mailto:SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 11:34 AM To: Smurfycopy@aol.com; emzdogz@yahoo.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: 4 May 1970 NJC **Also...someone please make sure I have this correct...when we discovered that the whole WMD thing was a lie and a scam, the talking point for defending our invasion was that Saddam was abusing & torturing Iraqis. Now we're over there abusing & torturing Iraqis. It just doesn't make much sense to me, but then again I'm a simple guy I guess. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:25:43 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Song for Sharon/Kate Em wrote: <> Oh Em, I have a MUCH better idea! Come to Jonifest and WIN "Woman of Heart and Mind" from the RAFFLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right, Maggie???? :-) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:38:35 -0400 From: Doug Subject: Offer: Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 11-20 of JM Covers With thanks to Eric, I have Volume 11 to 20 to pass on to the next lucky person. I have added to the package the new mystery Joni recording which I call: Joni Mitchell - Germany? 1968 1) Marcie 2) Nathan La Franeer 3) Dr. Junk Intro 4) Dr. Junk The Dentist Man 5) Roses Blue 6) Circle Game/Little Green 7) I Don't Know Where I Stand 8) Go Tell The Drummer Man 9) Michael From Mountains First to send me an address and promise to *promptly* re-offer gets it. Doug ps If anyone knows any details about this recording, please let us know. Eric's original post: In order to enable latecomers to the list or new traders have a chance of listening to Bob Muller's incredible compilation of covers of Joni's songs - some 1500 in all - this begins the launch of the Perpetual Joni Covers Trains. For those not familiar with trading trains, here is how they work. When the disks come to you, you make copies of as much of the contents as you want, and then you post back to this list offering to pass the disks along to the next person. You do not keep the originals -- you keep the copies you made for yourself. On most trains, the convention is that you make the copies and send the masters along within two days. For these trains, you must agree to turn them around within one week. Sometimes the offer goes unclaimed. Bob and I expect that to happen from time to time. So, by participating, you agree to just hang on to the disks and then make another offer a month or so later (or to respond if somebody posts a grovel looking for them). In theory, if everybody takes good care of the disks, wrapping them well, not letting them get scratched, etc. and passes them along, these covers will run on the tracks for years. Bob copied 50+ disks for me to launch this and I have copied them so there is a LOT of time sunk into offering these up. Nobody is going to monitor the progress of these trains so if you participate and then lose the disks or fail to reoffer them, you will have kept others from enjoying them. When you post an offer, please include these "rules". One final note, I know a few folks like to compress these into MP3s. If you want to, go ahead but please do not send MP3s to the next person - MP3s permanently delete some of the "data" and sound quality degrades so please pass the masters along. So, anybody who would like to receive volumes 11-20, please send me: 1. Your mailing address and 2. Your promise to reoffer, etc. If you want to know what is on the disks, please see this link: http://www.jmdl.com/covers/byvolume.cfm . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:39:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: lovemaking music, not I protest! I think almost all of HOSL is...um...inspiring. You have to run and stop the CD before Shadows and Light comes on though because that can kill a mood. lol. I agree, there aren't many that lend themselves to makin' love, but here's my top ten : Court and Spark Help Me Edith and the Kingpin Shades of Scarlett... Hissing of Summer Lawns Harry's House Off Night Back Street Strange Boy Hejira Okay that's only 9. I tried. I recommend Best of Laura Nyro - Disc 2. Jenny Kate Bennett wrote: I never thought about joni's music that way but I can see its true! Santana is great lovemaking music especially one of his songs that I am forgetting the name of now, an instrumental... As far as joni as a cheese, my vote is for whatever incredible dutch cheese uncle john brings to the fest ! Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:42:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Joni Tidbit - Frasier Interesting piece of trivia I learned this week - Joni's 'Twisted' was used as the theme song for Frasier's pilot episode. Once the show was picked up, they had to find another tune b/c they couldn't afford 'Twisted'. jenny Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:44:19 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: lovemaking music, not **You have to run and stop the CD before Shadows and Light Way to go Eric! I can't even make it to the Jungle Line. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:46:06 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: The best Joni cover... Is FREE! Here's one that's more than a 'little bit corny". I'll bet someone had to write the scat part out for her on music paper, whaddya think? http://www.abjconstruction.net/hoop.html Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:46:28 +1200 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: lovemaking music, not NJC Kate wrote: > I never thought about joni's music that way but I > can see its true! Santana is great lovemaking > music especially one of his songs that I am > forgetting the name of now, an instrumental... If it's the same one I'm thinking of, then it would be "Samba Pa Ti" - you can check if I'm right here!: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000062FZ/qid=1084225427/sr=2-3/ref=sr_2_3/102-4148034-7835327 Hell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:26:24 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Fwd: Re: lovemaking music, not NJC LOL hell, that is the very one! >If it's the same one I'm thinking of, then it would be "Samba Pa Ti" - you can check if I'm right here!: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000062FZ/qid=1084225427/sr=2-3/ ref=sr_2_3/102-4148034-7835327 Hell< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 18:33:20 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: pro choice, quaker football -- njc > << What were they called...the "Fighting Quakers!" They never saw that as > ironic, either. Go figure. >> The Guilford College football team is called the "Fighting Quakers". Victor Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 18:37:16 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: songs about women and/or men It seems to me that JM was equally skilled in writing about women and men. Many times she deals with both perspectives in the same song. And both are treated with candor and an unflinching dedication to honesty rather than an expected/fashionable PC POV. HOSL is full of complicated relationships. Harry's House seems now to me to be, poignantly, about Harry. I remember when I first knew and loved the song I felt, in accordance with the times, that it was about a woman who had been made an object by an ambitious, corporate-success-hungry husband -- "nothings's any good" because he has essentially abandoned her, left to choose wallpaper instead of allowing her to be self-actuated. Now I hear it as something very different -- about a woman who got who she wanted but is still not satisfied, while her husband does what he needs to do to provide her with what she wants. JM provides the knowing kicker: "Shining as she reeled him in." Harry is still smitten (Centerpiece) by a woman who keeps reeling him in by his fond memories and her complaints. Nothing's any good. Joni has always treated men and women with the same no-bullshit eye. Bruce PS. My only complaint is when JM opts for generalizations rather than specifics. Her very best work is always like a short story, not a statement on an issue or a re-imagining of another text. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 18:37:00 -0400 From: "anon anon" Subject: Re: Hejira >No one else writes with the kind of consistent high quality that's common >to >the entire Hejira album. What a blessing to have had it as a traveling >companion all these years. > >Bob > >NP: Wayne, "This Flight Tonight" > > > > There are so many quotable lines from Hejira...Even from the title song alone _________________________________________________________________ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 23:37:59 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: lovemaking music, not Kate Bennett wrote:I never thought about joni's music that way but I can see its true! Santana is great lovemaking music especially one of his songs that I am forgetting the name of now, an instrumental... As far as joni as a cheese, my vote is for whatever incredible dutch cheese uncle john brings to the fest ! Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide thought Joni's 'Blue' had a little Danish flavour to it! ;) Jamie Zoob - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:38:06 +1200 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: RE: Fwd: Re: lovemaking music, not NJC Kate wrote: > LOL hell, that is the very one! I thought it might be! That song was used to great affect in the movie "If These Walls Could Talk 2", in a scene between Michelle Williams and Chloe Sevigny - some of you will know EXACTLY which scene I'm talking about ;o)! Almost as good as the use of Dido's "Thank You" in "the" scene with Ellen DeGeneres and Sharon Stone (but not quite)! And the Santana song was used in a much more boring way here in a TV ad for dairy products.... Hell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:49:38 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: THE AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE MAGAZINE NJC (A conservative viewpoint. Send this to your conservative friends & family) May 10, 2004 issue Copyright C 2004 The American Conservative http://www.amconmag.com/2004_05_10/cover.html The Best of Bad Choices Given the Iraq War's mounting costs and impossible goals, America should transfer sovereignty and come home. By Christopher Layne The administration's Iraq policy is in shambles. Iraq has become a geopolitical humpty-dumpty that America cannot put back together, and the time has come for the United States to withdraw. We now face a full-blown uprising against the occupation of Iraq. Events plainly belie the administration's spin that order will soon be restored and that the revolt is just the work of a few Iraqi extremists and a handful of terrorists from other Middle Eastern states. Even top officials in the British government-America's most loyal ally-understand that the administration's take on Iraq is divorced from reality. As British Foreign Minister Jack Straw said, "The lid on the pressure cooker has come off. There is no doubt that the current situation is very serious and it is the most serious we have faced. It plainly is the fact today that there are larger numbers of people, and they are people on the ground, Iraqis, not foreign fighters, who are engaged in this insurgency." Americans should not allow the administration's "perception management" campaign-a fancy bureaucratic term for lying-to pull the wool over their eyes. From a policy standpoint, an even greater concern is that the administration believes its own disinformation about events in Iraq. But there are three disturbing facts about the insurrection that cannot be swept under the rug. First, what began as a small-scale insurgency mounted by Sunni "dead-enders" and "former regime elements" now has morphed into a broad-based popular rebellion joined by large numbers of Shi'ites. The Shi'ite revolt is especially troubling because-to the extent that the Bush II administration had any strategy at all for administering postwar Iraq-it was based on the assumption that the United States could co-opt the Shi'ites and gain their support for Washington's plans to create a "democratic" Iraq. Second, Iraq's Sunnis and Shi'ites -heretofore deeply antagonistic to each other-now are finding common ground in resisting the occupation. Here U.S. policy seems to be having a bitterly ironic and quite unintended consequence. Previously, Iraq, which Britain artificially cobbled together from the Ottoman Empire's wreckage, lacked a sense of national identity. Now, however, resentment of the American occupation is creating an Iraqi nationalism shared by Sunnis and Shi'ites. Third, outrage at America's heavy-handed use of military power to suppress the uprising has alienated the very Iraqis Washington has counted upon to form the core of a new government to which "sovereignty" can be transferred. Although they were handpicked by U.S. officials, leading members of the Iraqi Governing Council now are condemning American policy and distancing themselves from Washington. Where does U.S. policy go from here? There are three options: internationalizing the occupation, increasing U.S. troop strength and cracking down hard on the insurgency, or withdrawal. Internationalizing the occupation by bringing in the UN and/or NATO is a non-starter-pure political grandstanding. First, Iraq now is so dangerous and chaotic it is doubtful that the UN wants to step in and take responsibility for trying to fix things. Second, for the same reasons, other nations are not going to rush in and send troops to restore order in Iraq. Indeed, it now is apparent that others are concluding that their best option is staying out-or, if they already have troops there, getting out-of Iraq. Third, although some individual NATO members have token contingents in Iraq, the alliance has its hands full in Afghanistan (and the Europeans are stretched to the breaking point by their non-NATO Balkan and West African peacekeeping commitments). NATO just doesn't have more troops that it can send to help the U.S. in Iraq. There is another reason internationalization cannot be a real option as long as the Bush II administration remains in office. Even if the UN agreed to step in, it would do so only if Washington agreed to give the international community real decision-making authority in Iraq. The Bush administration will not do this because giving up control over Iraq would be tantamount to abandoning the very goals for which it went to war in the first place: using Iraq as a platform for establishing American military dominance in the Persian Gulf; transforming Iraq into a dependable, oil-supplying client state; and using Iraq as the launching pad for the proposed "democratic transformation" of the entire Middle East. Increasing American troop levels and suppressing the insurgency is not a viable option, either. Although the U.S. has enough firepower to dampen down the insurrection-at least for a while-this would be a self-defeating policy because there no longer is a military solution in Iraq. There is a good reason -to quote the title of Andrew Mack's important article that appeared some years ago in the journal World Politics-big states lose small wars. Insurgencies start small but gain widespread political support by driving a wedge between the civilian population and the occupation forces. Here, insurgents count on the occupation forces to be their unwitting accomplices. When the occupying forces resort to violent and coercive measures, they lose politically by alienating the population. As events in Fallujah and elsewhere demonstrate, such tactics fan widespread popular anger and resentment. Regardless of what happens in Iraq in the next several weeks, a watershed has been reached. Iraq's population is seething and hostile, and if the United States stays on in Iraq, henceforth it will face broad-based political, and armed, resistance to the occupation. In that setting, the U.S. will confront the asymmetry in motivation that causes big states to lose small wars; the Iraqis are fighting for their country, but the United States is fighting for goals that are ephemeral. Contrary to what Mr. Bush has said, the growing numbers of Iraqis supporting the insurgency do not "hate freedom." It is just that they define "freedom" as freedom from American rule. Now, in this regard, the administration hopes it can placate Iraqi nationalism by handing over "sovereignty" on June 30. But Iraqis are not fooled by this, and Americans shouldn't be either. As things now stand, Iraq will be sovereign in name only because the U.S. will still be wielding military, economic, and political control in Baghdad. The administration has dug a hole in Iraq. It is time to stopping digging deeper. The war was a tragic, avoidable mistake, and those who opposed it have been vindicated. The administration should be held accountable, both for leading the nation in war under false pretenses and for its willful failure to think through the consequences of going to war with Iraq. As James Fallows recently pointed out in the Atlantic, the administration was warned about many things. It was warned by the then-Army Chief of Staff that stabilizing postwar Iraq would require the long-term commitment of several hundred thousand U.S. troops. It was warned by the Army War College that if American forces remained in postwar Iraq for any length of time, they would soon cease to be viewed as liberators and be seen instead as a hostile occupation army. And it was warned that Iraq was a singularly poor candidate for a "democracy transplant" because it lacked the essential prerequisites for a successful democratic transition. (And if by some chance the U.S. did transplant democracy to Iraq, we would rue the day. A democratic Iraq would be virulently anti-American and anti-Israeli.) The administration turned a deaf ear to these warnings because it considered them to be "antiwar"-that is, undermining its already decided-upon policy of overthrowing Saddam Hussein. And, of course, the administration was correct: these warnings did cut the legs from underneath its case for going to war because they demonstrated that the administration's policy would lead the U.S. into an Iraqi quagmire. Of course, it can be said that all this is true but is just water under the bridge: we are in Iraq now, and it is "defeatist" to suggest that the United States "cut and run." There are arguments that can be marshaled to support continuing American involvement, but they are not very convincing. And if they are accepted, it will mean that the U.S. has to stay in Iraq for a long, long time no matter what the cost in lives and treasure-and even though there is scant prospect of ultimate success. First, some will claim that if the U.S. withdraws Iraq will fall into chaos. Of course, the U.S. has been in Iraq for a year and that country is in chaos. Second, it might be claimed that if America withdraws Iraq will become a terrorist haven. But the truth is that the longer the United States stays in Iraq, the more that country will become a magnet for Islamic fighters who want to take us on. Staying the course will not make things better, because America's bloody suppression of the current uprising not only is alienating many Iraqis who were-up to now-acquiescing in the occupation (however reluctantly) but also is stirring up anti-Americanism and creating more terrorism throughout the Middle East. Third, it is said that if America fails to prevail in Iraq, our enemies-not just in the Middle East, but worldwide-will doubt U.S. resolve and will be tempted to challenge the United States in future crises. Well, the same arguments were made against withdrawing from Vietnam. But the United States withdrew from Vietnam, and it survived to triumph in the Cold War: the dominoes did not topple, America's world position did not crumble, and neither its allies nor its adversaries questioned Washington's determination to defend vital U.S. interests. There is a more heart-wrenching argument against U.S. withdrawal: how can we justify the loss of American lives to the parents of those military personnel who have been killed in Iraq? The real question, however, is how many more parents do we wish to send into mourning. The argument about sunk costs-whether in lives, in wounded (some 3,000 U.S. troops have been wounded in Iraq, many grievously), or dollars (some $121 billion in 2003 and another estimated $50-75 billion this year)-can always be invoked to stick with a failed policy. But staying the course-continuing to pay these costs in pursuit of policy objectives that cannot be attained-is not the answer. Instead of compounding our losses in Iraq, we should be cutting them. The United States has no good options in Iraq but the least bad is this: Washington should transfer real sovereignty to the Iraqis on June 30. It should tell the Iraqis to work out their own political future among themselves and turn over full responsibility for Iraq's external and internal security to the new regime in Baghdad. Simultaneously, the United States also should suspend all offensive military operations in Iraq, pull its forces back to defensive enclaves well away from Iraq's cities, and commence a withdrawal of American forces from Iraq that will be completed on December 31 (or on January 20, 2005). There is no point in being Pollyannaish. In the long run, the U.S. will be better off leaving Iraq. In the short-term, however, there will be consequences-not all of which are foreseeable-if the U.S. withdraws. But that misses the point. Sooner or later the U.S. is going to end up leaving Iraq without having attained its goals. Washington's real choice is akin to that posed in an old oil-filter commercial that used to run on television: America can pay now, or it can pay later when the costs will be even higher. Some 45 years ago, France found itself involved in a conflict very much like that in which the U.S. is involved in Iraq. Algeria was a bitter, bloody, and interminable struggle. The French could not prevail but were unwilling to bow to reality. Charles de Gaulle-a statesman of great vision and courage-cut the Gordian knot and extricated France from the unwinnable war in Algeria. Although painful, it was the right decision. George W. Bush is no de Gaulle. He is incapable either of admitting that his administration blundered into Iraq or of cutting America's losses and disengaging. Whether any other political leader in the U.S. is capable of stepping up to the plate and demonstrating de Gaulle-like wisdom-which might require admitting to having made a misjudgment in initially backing the decision to go to war-remains to be seen. But plainly, the time has come for a statesman to step forward and ask the American people the question that must be asked: if the United States remains in Iraq, how do we tell the U.S. troops there that one of them will be the last one to die for a mistake? _____________________________________________________ Christopher Layne, a member of the Coalition for a Realistic Foreign Policy and a Visiting Fellow in Foreign Policy Studies at the Cato Institute, writes frequently about American and international politics. May 10, 2004 issue Copyright C 2004 The American Conservative http://www.amconmag.com/2004_05_10/cover.html ===== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:11:07 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: NJC Patty Griffin/Cinci GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >Any listers planning on going to the Patty Griffin Concert in Cincy this Thursday? Lama? Bree? Ken< Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:04:49 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Folk music... now NJC Martin> I have come to feel that simpler is much better... more powerful in the end...If you have one instrument playing and then you add one, it can make a huge impact to the arrangement. When things are that sparse, you can also hear more of the individual character of each instrument... Leave 'em wanting more is my philosophy Oh yes martin! You speaka my language! Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:21:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: is it just ME???? what the HALE is that thing sticking out of the "pocket of the asphalt" in the Hejira cover photo????? I'm looking, and I'm like noooo, Em, shut uppp....what the heck IS that??? Is it like "battery-powered" you think? I mean I know my vision sucks anymore, but really.... also why is her hed so far over to the left? (her right) I'm just shaking my head, cuz I'm sure I'm just nuts. I miss the days when album covers were BIG! so it was easier to scrutinize them. ;) Em ===== ........... "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." Chuck Berry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:25:13 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Song for Sharon Kate c >she remembered how her grandmother had been a frustrated musician, forced to give up her dreams for marriage, and she kicked in the door of the barn. I think that in her early albums, Joni was forever running away from the trap of that barn door... she knew that to express herself, to understand herself, to have full creative freedom, she couldn't allow herself to be "bound and tied to someone". You can almost trace the story through her songs, watch as she comes so close to belonging with somebody and then runs for the roads again. It begins on Song to a Seagull - "Her heart is full and hollow, like a cactus tree, being free" - and seems to end on Hejira: "I pulled into the Cactus Tree Motel, to shower off the dust, and I slept on the strange pillows of my wanderlust"...She seems to be veering towards desperation as she realises that only in true solitude can she experience herself fully, but only in love can she feel whole: "You know I'm so glad to be on my own... but somehow the slightest touch of a stranger can set up trembling in my bones". But on the whole, I think it is solitude she wants most strongly; her view of love seems to be a trap and a battlefield: "A defector from the petty wars, until love sucks me back that way". Am I analysing this too much?!>Love Kate C No you are absolutely not analyzing this too much! What you said is brilliant! And, this hits deep for me as it has always been my struggle... And I suspect many other people's as well... Joni, when she goes deep to write about herself, well she ends up writing about us all... There is always the push pull between rejection & engulfment that is part of any relationship... The couple vs the individual, compromise vs standing up for what you need, & on & on... But it is magnified when someone is an artist or musician who requires solitude to write, reflect, channel... Joni's output & the incredible artistry of her output suggests to me that her muse pretty much required her time 24/7... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:29:14 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: is it just ME???? In a message dated 11/05/2004 00:25:05 GMT Daylight Time, emzdogz@yahoo.com writes: << what the HALE is that thing sticking out of the "pocket of the asphalt" in the Hejira cover photo????? I'm looking, and I'm like noooo, Em, shut uppp....what the heck IS that??? Is it like "battery-powered" you think? >> Are you the only one? Oh no, nohow!! This is a hardy perennial, Em, and has caused and will continue to provoke much mirth on the list, amongst those of us with filthy minds - erm, I mean those of *them* with dirty minds... Azeem in London NP: Frente - Pretty Friend ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:34:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: is it just ME???? - --- AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > Are you the only one? Oh no, nohow!! This is a hardy perennial, Em, > and has > caused and will continue to provoke much mirth on the list, amongst > those of > us with filthy minds - erm, I mean those of *them* with dirty > minds... Hi Azeem, ok thanks for letting me know its not "just me". I can live with it, seeing as how I'm in such good company. :) Em ===== ........... "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." Chuck Berry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:35:59 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Hejira I agree with you on the amazing honesty of those lyrics...In fact, those lyrics freaked me out in so many ways when I first heard them as they really hit close to home with me... Its amazing the way she writes these lines as much as what she says... Its like a train of thought conversation she's having with herself & then she ends it with such an incredible metaphor... Amazing yes... Mike> "Maybe I've never really loved I guess that is the truth. I've spent my whole life in clouds At icy altitudes." Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:41:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: is it just ME???? - --- AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: Oh no, nohow!! This is a hardy perennial a "hardy perennial"!!!!!!! lol!!!! thats a new name for it, but kind of appropriate somehow!!!!! lmao!!!! Azeem thanks for the corroboration.... :D Em ===== ........... "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." Chuck Berry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:47:12 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: (NJC) Bush: A blind man in a room full of deaf people (PC) Lori>The entire article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13027-2004May9.html An excerpt "Robert Kagan, a neoconservative supporter of the Iraq war, wrote: "All but the most blindly devoted Bush supporters can see that Bush administration officials have no clue about what to do in Iraq tomorrow, much less a month from now." If not from the horses mouth, at least from one of the herd's mouth... The key word being 'blind' Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:13:35 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: NJC the banality of evil Tasmin> I found this article very interesting http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3700209.stm An excerpt- "Often, then, tyranny follows from powerlessness rather than power." I agree with this statement & to me it also explains gwb's inner psychology at work in the world... I think it might be a trait that is found in many people with an obsessive desire for outer power (as a result of so little sense of inner power) Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 01:41:33 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: THOSL I listened to this for the first time in ages the other day, in my car on a longish journey. It wa smy first Joni album ever bought on the strenght of having hear The Jungle Line on the radio. Now, 29 years alter, it still sounds so good. Her voice in good form. I ca imagine th shock this album must have caused her fans as it was so different form her previous works. One cannot blame some of them for not going on with Joni. As it was my first album, i ahd nothing to go ona nd later when i did have them all, i liked her constant chaning. I still like the album for all the reasons I liked it in the first place. I still have no clue what some of the lyrics mean, some sentences within songs make sense and others in the same song just don't register a meaning with me. i was also surprised that a 16 year old liked this album so much. I do wonder if Joni is being a tad precious with her writing. is there anything to be gained by writing in such a way that people haven;t a clue what she is saying? And yes, i have checked with people not as thick as I, like English Professors and the like, and they have no clue either! Anyway, this listen just made me think how brilliant she is/was, how this album must have knocked socks off, how i can see why it pissed some of fans off, how it doesn't seem to have aged. It seems to me a remarkable piece of work now, especially considering when it was written. Not a thouhgt i ahd at 16 in 75 when just enjoying it and not realsiing how different it was nor how it would stand the test of time. Like ABBA, this album, THOSL,stands up well all these years later..... bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 01:45:04 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: Hejira > "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall > I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." > > Chuck Berry > is there a compo on for the most stomach churning lyric or something? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 01:53:02 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: Hejira I think it very likely that joni has always searched for the love and acceptance she seems to have not got from her mother. Assuming further, as she was most unliley to aware of this, her looking for it with men was always going to fail. The love two adults share is quite different from the parent child love she was needing. Just cos she is now 60 does not mean she has necessarily realsied this or worked thru it. in fact her TT album suggested she still ahd issues with her mother. The fact that she appears to have felt loved by her father would not fill the hole elft by her moter and would not ptevent her trying to fill this with her men. The men of course were not going to be able to giver her what she craved-a mothers love and accpetence-and thus the relationships were always doomed. If one can either get that need met or accpet it as never going to be, it would elave one free to accpet and enjoy the love two adutls can share bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Mike Friedman" ; "Em" Cc: "jonilist" Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 7:18 PM Subject: Re: Hejira > "Maybe I've never really loved > I guess that is the truth. > I've spent my whole life in clouds > At icy altitudes." > > A painful admission, to be sure - really just an update of > this one: > > "I've looked at love from both sides now > From give and take, and still somehow > It's love's illusions I recall > I really don't know love at all" > > And the offhand reference to 'clouds' is probably not just a > coincidence either. Amelia usually places at the top of the > JMDL song poll, it's currently #2, followed by...SfS! > > Bob > > NP: Becker & Fagen, "If It Rains" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:54:01 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's music & lovemaking In a message dated 5/10/04 3:03:50 AM, ?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= > I've been following this thread and find it very interesting. I think if you're a real music lover, and are listening to music with lyrics (Joni or not), it would be very difficult to get into a heavy lovemaking session unless the lyrics and melody are sensual and subdued; otherwise, I imagine you'd be torn between listening to the lyrics and giving yourself completely to making love. I think instrumentals would be better suited for a lovemaking session simply because it allows you to really get "into" the act (no pun intended) without the chance of distraction by lyrics or a story line of a song. Personally, I think if you're going about lovemaking the right way, you are making your OWN music and don't need anything else. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:54:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Hejira lol, sorry I changed it. That was a yesterday mood and no longer applies. My apologies. Em - --- tantra-apso wrote: > is there a compo on for the most stomach churning lyric or something? ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 01:58:26 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: Hejira no need to apologise! I just wondered what it pertained to. I didn't wonder too much about the lyric itself! Ick! It actually reminds me of the man fingering Joni in one of the Heira songs-can't recall which one now. Cleverly written but still evoiked the same unpleasnat imagery(to me). bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Em" To: "tantra-apso" ; "jonilist" Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 1:54 AM Subject: Re: Hejira > lol, sorry I changed it. > That was a yesterday mood and no longer applies. > My apologies. > Em > > --- tantra-apso wrote: > > is there a compo on for the most stomach churning lyric or something? > > > ===== > .............. > > "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. > I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." > > ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 02:00:50 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: Joni's music & lovemaking bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ > Personally, I think if you're going about lovemaking the right way, you > are making your OWN music and don't need anything else. Well, I am almost inclined to agree with you. Don't want music and find it distracting and don't need anything to put me in the mood-my feelings for John do that. I also don't think there is a 'right way' to make love. Lots of wrong ways, but no right way. > > Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 21:47:07 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell Centre will bring rides, cash influx to area NJC About me, Maggie writes: << Aren't we all glad to see that the little blue man (getting littler by the day, I might add) is keeping his writing chops up? >> Maggie, dear, why are you talking about me like I'm a dying retard? Scared, - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:45:19 -0700 From: Rick Subject: Re: is it just ME???? It is very obviously her left arm with a thin metal bracelet on it, sticking out from under her fur coat and disappearing into a slit pocket which is now obscured by the asphalt of the highway. At least to those of us with minds that run pure (and who don't listen to any music while making love 'cause what's the point? One always distracts from the other.) Rick On 5/10/04 4:21 PM, emzdogz@yahoo.com wrote > what the HALE is that thing sticking out of the "pocket of the asphalt" > in the Hejira cover photo????? I'm looking, and I'm like noooo, Em, > shut uppp....what the heck IS that??? Is it like "battery-powered" you > think? > I mean I know my vision sucks anymore, but really.... > also why is her hed so far over to the left? (her right) > I'm just shaking my head, cuz I'm sure I'm just nuts. > I miss the days when album covers were BIG! so it was easier to > scrutinize them. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #216 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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