From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #215 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, May 10 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 215 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: [NortheastJonifest] Happy Birthday Anita!! NJC [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: Hejira [=?iso-8859-1?q?Tamsin=20Lucas?= ] Re: Hejira [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Hejira [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] songs as tats njc, well some jc but I don't want to risk it [Em ] Re: Joni mention at the car parts store/ connections, now njc [Em ] RE: Folk music... now NJC ["Martin Giles" ] Re: Hejira, now mud NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Hejira, now filthy, dirty mud NJC [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Hejira, now filthy, dirty mud NJC/ now TRex [Em ] Re: njc news takes me up short ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Hejira [Mike Friedman ] Re: Hejira [Mike Friedman ] Re: Hejira [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Hejira [Em ] Re: Hejira, now mud NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Hejira [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Fwd: Re: lovemaking music, not ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Hejira ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Song for Sharon/Kate [Em ] Re: Hejira [Em ] Re: [NortheastJonifest] Happy Birthday Anita!! NJC ["Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Hejira Very much with you both on the SfS front. The line that blows me away every time is: "Love's a repetitious danger You'd think I'd be accustomed to Well I do accept the changes At least better than I used to do" It's the little pause after "changes" that makes me smile, wryly. Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 14:20:49 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira "A woman I knew just drowned herself, the well was deep and muddy. She was just shaking off futility...or punishing somebody". Then again, there's the image of her looking at the wedding dress, the wax rolling down like tears, the $18 bucks going up in smoke.... No one else writes with the kind of consistent high quality that's common to the entire Hejira album. What a blessing to have had it as a traveling companion all these years. Bob NP: Wayne, "This Flight Tonight" - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 06:59:40 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira Bob quoted these lines from Song for Sharon "A woman I knew just drowned herself, the well was deep and muddy. She was just shaking off futility...or punishing somebody". This reminds me of a conversation I was having with three colleagues, a couple of years ago. One of our number, Ruth, was not familiar with Joni, and Patrick and I were enthusing about her, and we discovered that we both loved Hejira as the pinnacle of Joni's art. Patrick singled those same lines out to illustrate her forensic brilliance. Less than a year later, Patrick was dead, by his own hand. I still shudder a bit when I remember that conversation, and wonder at the ghastly irony of it. Azeem in London NP: Martha & the Vandellas - Dancing in the Street ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 07:24:14 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira **Less than a year later, Patrick was dead, by his own hand. I still shudder a bit when I remember that conversation, and wonder at the ghastly irony of it. Yes, that's eerie to be sure, and I'm sorry it happened. But to take that Joni lyric a step further..."the well was deep and muddy". Now, you can certainly take that literally that the woman drowned herself in a well, but you can also interpret it as meaning that the "well" of her life was a deep dark quagmire from which she felt no escape other than suicide was possible. Even on the surface it's a great lyric, but when you start to peel layers...oh, my. Bob NP: Liane Carroll, "Parking Lot" (we typically call it Big Yellow Taxi) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 04:30:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: songs as tats njc, well some jc but I don't want to risk it Sometime yesterday I had said I think of certain songs as being tattooed on my brain. So then I get into the car this morning - and there's that line from "Blue". Now I haven't ventured that far into "Blue" for years and years..mostly cuz I just had ratty old vinyl of it. And I think I never REALLY listened to "Blue" because it wasn't sugar-coated enough for me. But I did listen some way back when, because I think it was one of my friend's favorite albums. So I'm wondering if I got that "song as tat" thing from Joni. hmmmm... I mean, I'm thinking I thought it up myself! lol, I can just hear some of you, "sure, right, let her think that"..... But maybe not. Maybe it stuck to me from way back like gum on a sneaker, like a ramora on a hull, only to have me say it on the Jonilist in 2004, thinking its my line. So I beg you all's pardon for thinking its my line. But I do! Sure smacked me in the face. hehehehh....and the non sugar coated "Blue" sure tastes mighty fine right about 2004. (only now it seems kinda sugar coated, lol) I can't express how RICH I feel, having these albums (Hejira and Blue) to explore all new. Also got a Fred Eaglesmith one, that is fantastic. Love that guy. The perfect balance of twang and hip and beat. Also got one with recordings from 1945-1949 of Cuban big band leader Machito, and his various band formations. Pretty cool stuff too! change is good......I love it when it finally happens. Happy Monday you all. And thanks for putting up with my rambling. :) Em ===== ........... "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." Chuck Berry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 00:04:12 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Hejira Bob wrote: > But to take that Joni lyric a step further..."the well was deep and muddy". > Now, you can certainly take that literally that the woman drowned herself in a > well, but you can also interpret it as meaning that the "well" of her life was > a deep dark quagmire from which she felt no escape other than suicide was > possible. Even on the surface it's a great lyric, but when you start to peel > layers...oh, my. Here's a classic example of why I love this list - I'd never even thought of the "well" in that context before. It was always a literal thing to me, but it does make a lot of sense. I should have known better from the queen of "duality" I guess, especially since SFS is one of my favourite songs. But there's just so much depth to this album - in every song - that maybe I just haven't lived long enough to decipher it all yet! Joni's song-writing career may well be over, but personally, the exploration of what she has written is far from over! Hell - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a WHOLE NEW EXPERIENCE! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 05:09:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Joni mention at the car parts store/ connections, now njc Hi Lama this NEVER happens to me at parts counters. And I stand at parts counters ALOT, on account of my old bike I'm slowly fixing up and on account of my 86 Mustang. Closest I ever came to something like that was in the real early 80's I was going through a beverage drive-through in my '70 MGB and playing a tape and the beer guy goes "wow, Jonathan Richman!" Kinda blew me away..I guess I didn't think anyone else knew about Jonathan Richman except me, lol. Anyway, that was pleasant. And eons ago.... but I guess it impressed me enough to remember it 22 or so years later. so, did you get your car fixed? :) Em - --- jlamadoo@fuse.net wrote: > I guess this counts as Joni Content. I was buying parts for the > venerable 16-year old, Volvo 245 today when the guy behind the > counter goes, "You like Joni Mitchell, huh?" > > I was wearing a TTT t-shirt. I said, "Uhhn. Yeah. Big time." > > The guy goes, "My favorite one of hers is "WILD THINGS RUN FAST." > > I blinked. I don't often hear WTRF named as a favorite. I said, > "Yeah, 'Chinese Cafe' might be her last great, great piano song." > > He's also a fan of Cat Stevens, Gordon Lightfoot, and Led Zeppelin. > (He's a part guy after all.) > > Sincerely, > Jim L'Hommedieu > > np: Rickie Lee Jones "THE EVENING OF MY BEST DAY". I only know about > this album because of my sisters and brothers here on the JMDL. I > think Muller was the enabler in this case... As usual. :) > > BTW, I haven't taken a vow of silence (as Cat Stevens did), I'm > rebuilding my installation of Windows XP. It's best to let it work > while using another computer while primo music plays on. ===== ........... "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." Chuck Berry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:23:21 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira In a message dated 5/10/04 7:27:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > But to take that Joni lyric a step further..."the well was deep and muddy". > > Now, you can certainly take that literally that the woman drowned herself in > a > well, but you can also interpret it as meaning that the "well" of her life > was > a deep dark quagmire from which she felt no escape other than suicide was > possible. Even on the surface it's a great lyric, but when you start to peel > > layers...oh, my. > > That is how I've always interpreted this line....for when I first heard these lyrics, it immediately brought me back to the teachings of the I-Ching...there is a hexagram called "The Well". It's symbolic imagery being the waters of life. One of the first lines of this hexagram. One does not drink the mud of the well. no animals come to an old well. It's interpretation... If a man wanders around in swampy lowlands, his life is submerged in mud. Such a man loses all significance for mankind. He throws himself away and is no longer sought out by others. In the end no one troubles about him anymore. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 05:44:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Hejira - --- RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > If a man wanders around in swampy lowlands, his life is submerged in > mud. > Such a man loses all significance for mankind. He throws himself away > and is no > longer sought out by others. In the end no one troubles about him anymore. I bet that Jesus dude would hang out w/him. Mud or no mud. Em ===== ........... "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." Chuck Berry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:56:19 +0100 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: RE: Folk music... now NJC This album sounds really interesting. And I'm also interested by your comments on the arrangements. I think we have become very used to big, layered, 'wall-of-sound' productions over the last decade or so. It makes for a very arresting sound when we first listen, but personally, I have come to feel that simpler is much better. It's less arresting perhaps, but more powerful in the end. If you have one instrument playing and then you add one, it can make a huge impact to the arrangement. When things are that sparse, you can also hear more of the individual character of each instrument. When you have a dozen instruments all playing at once, adding or taking away one or two makes very little difference, and the individual sounds are much harder to distinguish. I haven't heard The Electric Muse, but I think you may be right when you say that it might have been spoilt with added instrumentation. Leave 'em wanting more is my philosophy :) Martin. In London. > Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:14:22 +1000 > From: "A. Millington" > Subject: Folk music... > But what I thought was interesting (for me) was the lack of background > instruments/sounds to 'fill' out the music ( as I think what some of the > people on the Digest are alluding to on Joni's 'Travelouge', which I > personally like)...meaning ......artist going back to the so called unplugged > stuff. > > With this Electric Muse records..there are parts which could have done with > added instruments in the studio..but then that is the cleverness of this > album....that a lot of the music is 'raw '...maybe I have been spoilt???? > but it did leave me with...at this point, there could have been a echo effect > or more bass or been speeded up or etc etc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:09:18 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira, now mud NJC **If a man wanders around in swampy lowlands, his life is submerged in mud. Or as Bruce would say (in one of my favorite songs of his), you're 'waist deep in the big muddy'... Or the CSN line..."underneath the mud - there's more mud there". Bob NP: Starsailor, "Good Souls" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:18:51 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira, now filthy, dirty mud NJC Muller writes: << Or as Bruce would say (in one of my favorite songs of his), you're 'waist deep in the big muddy'... Or the CSN line..."underneath the mud - there's more mud there". >> Figures the only 'mud' line I know is obscene and ancient: "See your baby's stud sliding in my mud, it's a ripoff" -- Mark Bolin, T. Rex XO, - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 06:36:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Hejira, now filthy, dirty mud NJC/ now TRex - --- Smurfycopy@aol.com wrote: > Figures the only 'mud' line I know is obscene and ancient: > > "See your baby's stud sliding in my mud, it's a ripoff" -- Mark > Bolin, T. Rex Hey another T Rex fan!!!!!! I love them. Always have. when I was about 12 I went to a 3 Dog Night concert and the opening band was one I had never ever heard of, but they "won" me quickly, the 2 handsome Mssrs., Marc Bolan and the equally fascinating Mickey Finn. Basically acoustic rock and roll. So sweet and delicious. I thought they looked sooooooo great. Wish they were still with us. Nice to hear someone else digs them Smurf. Em NPIMH "Ride a White Swan" ===== ........... "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." Chuck Berry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:10:58 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: njc news takes me up short Dear Vince, I know regrets so well but I will tell you that sometimes, things are just plain out of your hands. You were there for a purpose and a reason and your reason for being there, I believe in my heart, was accomplished. Take it from someone who knows the pain of going, "would've, could've should've"for most of her life...it avails nothing but pain. There are many things we regret in life but there is no need to feel that you are a bad human being because of it. In my heart and from reading your story, you have nothing to regret. You put your heart on the line and dared to love. Thank God you are able Vince! Thank God you are able to love and have feelings for another human being. I was in a place where I was not able to once and I would not wish that on my worse enemy. Who knows how you helped shape Steven's life, or comforted Amy when she needed you most? One person can make such a difference when showing kindness. Two people did that for me when I was a lonely, scared child in England and I remember them to this day. I even wrote a song about them. So you see, there is so much one person can do by just being open to loving someone else. Thank you again for sharing your story. Love, Sherelle >From: vince >To: Catherine McKay >CC: Sherelle Smith , joni@smoe.org, Ashara >Stanfield , Bob Muller >Subject: Re: njc news takes me up short >Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 23:27:19 -0400 > >His name was Steven. I feel ok to say that so you can name him in your >prayers. The state can't get me really anymore for violating his >confidentiality. I would have so adopted Steven. But I couldn't because >of the emergence of his grandparents - distant ta they were in emotion and >not not understanding him yet it was so ironic that I had known them for >years as gentle loving peace activists but they just could not connect with >their adopted daughter Amy - who was Native American and adapted in the >hippy 60s and 70s spirit - and they could not connect with Steven, that >wonderful and wounded child. The tribe had first claim and the >grandparents had second claim and I as the gay foster case worker single >family had no claim at all but he and I bonded so -I might have been the >only male adult who ever took him seriously and I pledged to him that >should his mother's boyfriend attack I would defend him -he held my hand >with such trust I'd cry after I transported him - he was the only child I >ever held hands with because I am gay and was so afraid of >misinterpretations - how I cared for him, he was so scared. > >And Amy - I knew she'd never get it together - it was not her fault, some >people just are not strong enough - her loving caring adopting parents in >every way tried to love her but she was beyond being lovable and so there >good people who had been hurt by her turned their backs on her and her >children - I cannot remember the name of Steven's little brother, does that >make me a bad person that I have forgotten that baby's name who is now >maybe 10 years old - I didn't transport the baby because he was in a >different foster home - > >Amy talked to me a little as much as she talked to anyone because she was >in crack house kitty corner from my home (it was a fun neighborhood...) and >she knew that I knew that she just couldn't get it together, that she would >always relapse into the drugs and alcohol and sex, and she knew that I >didn't judge her and that I loved her son Steven and I promised her I would >never let the father of the baby get the baby - I alone knew the father's >name, she told me, she trusted me, but we didn't tell the authorities, >which broke the law that we wouldn't name the father but this same man beat >Amy, beat Steven his step child, we never wanted him to know where his bio >son was so he couldn't hurt that child either > >And then I got fired from the agency because someone was gunning me down to >get my job and then they closed the foster care part of the agency anyway >so all clients were transferred elsewhere and privacy laws shut a >fortress wall between me and Steven and the last time I talked to his >grandparents I knew they didn't want him, didn't understand him, scared >them (he was only 6 years old) because they thought he'd go the same way as >his mother Amy. I wanted Steven as my son and I could never have him. > >In today's paper Amy's face is on the front page. She went to Asylum Lake >for the only reason anyone goes - drugs and sex - and someone beat her to >death, and I knew her, and I can't handle that someone I knew despite her >faults she was gentle but she was so addicted beyond control and she was >beaten to death and left to decompose and when they found her body they >could identify it as male or female, oh Amy, Amy - > >maybe if I hand handled the politics of the agency better or hadn't moved >away I might still have been a person you could have come to > >Steve and is brother are not mentioned in the newspaper accounts - oh Amy, >I never really liked you being honest but you knew you could trust me and I >would have anything for you your and your son but I didn't, I played the >office politics game wrong at work and lost my job dealing wt. you and >then the agency shut the department down but I was not there to be >transferred to the new agency you went to but fuck it anyway I moved away >for a selfish reasons that blew up in my face, had I stayed, maybe, >maybe,.,, maybe... > >Damn it read the newspaper article, if I had stayed - she lived at 708W >Walnut, I was at 607 Oak, we could toss a Frisbee from her porch to mine >and we did and I moved away to be with a lover who tried to destroy my life >- why didn't I stay - two articles below - where is Steven, where is his >half brother I knew, where are the other three children... > > _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 07:27:56 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: (NJC) Bush: A blind man in a room full of deaf people (PC) "In a book released earlier this year, former Bush Treasury secretary Paul H. O'Neill described Bush as "a blind man in a room full of deaf people" and said policymakers put politics before sound policy judgments." The entire article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13027-2004May9.html Lori, thinking the election won't be a "landslide" afterall ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:29:47 -0400 From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: NJC Patty Griffin/Cinci Any listers planning on going to the Patty Griffin Concert in Cincy this Thursday? Lama? Bree? Ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:48:41 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Tamsin=20Lucas?= Subject: NJC the banality of evil I found this article very interesting http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3700209.stm It discusses whether the capacity for dreadful acts like torture is perhaps within all of us. An uncomfortable thought. - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:43:20 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: Happy Mothers Day (JC because Joni's a Mom!) Oh Paz!!! That was so sweet to say and even sweeter to do for your Mom. Conch chowder sounds very tasty!!! Here is email number 651! Paz wrote: To all of the mothers on the list (including Smurph and Wally) May you have a blessed day and much happiness. I am cooking lobsters and shrimp for our mommy and Romi is making us conch chowder. Still catching up on the list and I am now only about 650 behind. Have a lovely day all. Love Paz _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:41:10 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Song for Sharon Em wrote:->a couple more thoughts, >the arrangement imparts quite an "insistent" quality. Not quite the >stocking wearing lady. (to me) >Almost a "Riders on the Storm" groove, and it gives me that kind of >groovy-jiggy feeling. But then I think of the (at least) topmost layer >of subject matter, which is loosely her ruminations on marriage, the >ceremony, and the lack of it. The "road not taken" kind of thing. >Does she turn tough guy here in this song?? >I feel a pent up strength approaching violence, which is refreshing. >I feel almost taken by the collar and forced "up against the wall", to >listen, dammit. >She behaves, but she's ramming something home. >I do love the weird "jone-ette" harpy-chorus thing this tune has going >on, too. Which is there alot in "Court and Spark". >This song rips my face off, and it makes me happy. >Kinda like getting a new tattoo, raw and sticky. >Em Ohhh, Song for Sharon. I was just listening to it this morning, I don't think I've ever listened to it without crying. It's now almost a year since I first heard it and it changed my life irrevocably. Em, you described it so well... >This song rips my face off, and it makes me happy. >Kinda like getting a new tattoo, raw and sticky.Doesn't it just tear the skin off you and expose all your trembling nerves? You are so right that it forces you to listen, it is insistent. I was thinking this morning that, perhaps to someone who can't feel anything from Joni, that riff as it sidles in might sound quite innocuous, calm, free of passion... to me, it is the most powerful and direct riff, so strongly declarative. The whole song is a declaration of freedom. "Sharon, I LEFT my man". Yet at the same time it is a wistful, aching prayer to be freed from her conflict: "You still have your music, and I've still got my eyes on the land in the sky. You sing for your friends and your family, I'll walk green pastures by and by". Have you seen the DVD documentary, "Woman of Heart and Mind"? In it she explains why she didn't marry Graham Nash: she remembered how her grandmother had been a frustrated musician, forced to give up her dreams for marriage, and she kicked in the door of the barn. I think that in her early albums, Joni was forever running away from the trap of that barn door... she knew that to express herself, to understand herself, to have full creative freedom, she couldn't allow herself to be "bound and tied to someone". You can almost trace the story through her songs, watch as she comes so close to belonging with somebody and then runs for the roads again. It begins on Song to a Seagull - "Her heart is full and hollow, like a cactus tree, being free" - and seems to end on Hejira: "I pulled into the Cactus Tree Motel, to shower off the dust, and I slept on the strange pillows of my wanderlust". You asked if she turns tough guy. I think she is certainly gentle with Sharon: "Sharon, you've got a husband, and a family, and a farm". She understands why Sharon made the opposite decision from hers: "The ceremony of the bells and lace still veils this reckless fool here". It is herself she is tough on, as always: "I came out to the Big Apple here to face the dream's malfunction" ... "The power of reason and the flowers of deep feelings seem to serve me only to deceive me". Oh, that pent up strength close to violence that you felt... I feel that too. Time is a pressure on Joni in Hejira; she knows she must resolve her conflict soon. On The Hissing of Summer Lawns she has already "laid down golden in time and woke up vanishing"... now she has "a diamond snake around her arm" and she is a "chicken scratching for my mortality". She seems to be veering towards desperation as she realises that only in true solitude can she experience herself fully, but only in love can she feel whole: "You know I'm so glad to be on my own... but somehow the slightest touch of a stranger can set up trembling in my bones". But on the whole, I think it is solitude she wants most strongly; her view of love seems to be a trap and a battlefield: "A defector from the petty wars, until love sucks me back that way". Am I analysing this too much?! It's just that I think about Joni all the time and no-one around me is willing to entertain my theories... they just think she is an unbearable screeching moaner. I feel so alone!!!!! Love Kate C - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stay in touch better and keep protected online with MSNs NEW all-in-one Premium Services. Find out more here. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:44:44 -0700 From: Mike Friedman Subject: Re: Hejira Every time I listen to it (which is often) I hear something new......it's my favorite album by anyone.... On May 8, 2004, at 10:46 AM, Em wrote: > OK I gotta fess up. Am just listening to this whole album(cd) for the > first time. I mean I'd heard "Coyote" and maybe more, in the past, but > am just now really letting it in. > Why do I like "Song For Sharon" so much?... > I had to laugh out loud and shake my head at the line: > > "Well, there's a wide wide world of noble causes > And lovely landscapes to discover > But all I really want right now > Is...find another lover" > > What gorgeous honesty. Boy does she ever hammer that last line home. > The rest is pretty cool too, although the jazz spices are still strange > to me, and I tend to reject them for want of some good old sugar and > butter and bacon and salt. > Forgive me..but this *is* good.... > OK so its not just "spices", it's more basic componentry, not just > dressing. > I dunno. > thx for listening > :) > Em > ps I considered putting "NJC" in the subject, cuz its really not about > Joni so much but about my impressions of Joni..but then I thought maybe > some of the Joni-only folks wouldn't mind listening too, hope its ok. > > ===== > ........... > "thats just the scale; the fish come later". > ;) > Norman Blake > > ==================================================== "I'm porous with travel fever, but you know I'm so glad to be on my own. Still somehow the slightest touch of a stranger can set up trembling in my bones. I know, no one's gonna show me everything, we all come and go alone. Each so deep and superficial, between the forceps and the stone." - --Joni Mitchell, "Hejira", 1976 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:54:34 -0700 From: Mike Friedman Subject: Re: Hejira Something came to mind after I wrote my first short email. I think Amelia is my favorite song on the album. It's so haunting and quiet and wonderful. A few years ago when I saw JM live for the first time (UCLA stop of the tour with Dylan and Morrison) my ex and I took his friend Ben from LA who is a (quite gifted I think) songwriter. After she played "Amelia" he leaned over to me and just said "that's a really amazing song." I bought him the album the next day when we were out walking in Santa Monica. "Maybe I've never really loved I guess that is the truth. I've spent my whole life in clouds At icy altitudes." Ouch. talk about the painful truth about oneself. On May 8, 2004, at 10:46 AM, Em wrote: > OK I gotta fess up. Am just listening to this whole album(cd) for the > first time. I mean I'd heard "Coyote" and maybe more, in the past, but > am just now really letting it in. > Why do I like "Song For Sharon" so much?... > I had to laugh out loud and shake my head at the line: > > "Well, there's a wide wide world of noble causes > And lovely landscapes to discover > But all I really want right now > Is...find another lover" > > What gorgeous honesty. Boy does she ever hammer that last line home. > The rest is pretty cool too, although the jazz spices are still strange > to me, and I tend to reject them for want of some good old sugar and > butter and bacon and salt. > Forgive me..but this *is* good.... > OK so its not just "spices", it's more basic componentry, not just > dressing. > I dunno. > thx for listening > :) > Em > ps I considered putting "NJC" in the subject, cuz its really not about > Joni so much but about my impressions of Joni..but then I thought maybe > some of the Joni-only folks wouldn't mind listening too, hope its ok. > > ===== > ........... > "thats just the scale; the fish come later". > ;) > Norman Blake > > ==================================================== "See, the human mind is like a...pinata. Break it open, and there's a lot of surprises inside. Once you get the pinata perspective, you see that losing your mind can be a peak experience." - --Trudy (Lily Tomlin) from "The Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe" Mike Friedman San Francisco, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:18:28 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira "Maybe I've never really loved I guess that is the truth. I've spent my whole life in clouds At icy altitudes." A painful admission, to be sure - really just an update of this one: "I've looked at love from both sides now From give and take, and still somehow It's love's illusions I recall I really don't know love at all" And the offhand reference to 'clouds' is probably not just a coincidence either. Amelia usually places at the top of the JMDL song poll, it's currently #2, followed by...SfS! Bob NP: Becker & Fagen, "If It Rains" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:37:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Hejira - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Amelia usually places at the top of the > JMDL song poll, it's currently #2, followed by...SfS! Bob you're kidding! so this song that I latched onto like a hungry calf onto a teat is loved by EVERYONE???? I think one thing is that JM so often sings about her "men".. that the songs she sings to her women friends, or even about women (LOTC) seem really strong. (to me anyway) Interesting. Em ===== ........... "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." Chuck Berry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:46:09 -0400 From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira, now mud NJC Bob knows his Bruce.... Or as Bruce would say (in one of my favorite songs of his), you're 'waist deep in the big muddy'... yeah....You start out standing but end up crawlin' rosie loving all this dirty water....lol ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:47:34 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira **the songs she sings to her women friends, or even about women (LOTC) seem really strong. An interesting observation, Em...the songs about women (Magdalene Laundries, Edith & The Kingpin, Shades of Scarlett, etc) are certainly very strong, but I don't know that they're any stronger than her pseudo-autobiographical ones or her songs to/about men. So, convince me! :~) Bob NP: Becker/Fagen, "I Can't Function" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:49:50 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Fwd: Re: lovemaking music, not I never thought about joni's music that way but I can see its true! Santana is great lovemaking music especially one of his songs that I am forgetting the name of now, an instrumental... As far as joni as a cheese, my vote is for whatever incredible dutch cheese uncle john brings to the fest ! Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:58:13 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Hejira Bob>Hejira is every bit as confessional as Blue, perhaps even more so. Musically, it's so much looser and freer that you don't pick up on the intense emotions as you would on Blue, or even as in the verse you've quoted, you can actually laugh about it. And the more you listen, the deeper and more profound it gets.< So true (I'm thinking of the songs right now, not the albums)... Blue is so still, Hejira so forward moving (or whatever is the opposite to still), Blue is more about a person in relation to one another, Hejira is more about a person in relation to the entire universe... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:02:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Song for Sharon/Kate Kate what a beautiful and heartfelt post! I can truly feel your passion on this. Makes me want to just sit down and have some tea w/you and discuss the heck out of it. And I can tell if you can discuss the song this way, you probably would be real interesting to converse with about a bunch of stuff. No I have not seen "Woman of Heart and Mind" but I think I'm going to have to "pop" for it soon. I would love to see it. Thanks for your post Kate. I loved reading it and I'm sure I will read it again when I get home from work and can listen to the song again too. Just strange that out of all these zillions of Joni songs, that that ONE SONG that I never even heard of til yesterday is such a magnet for so many people. I'm liking this alot. So, a question for all..among the folks who play and sing around here..is that tune widely "covered"???? :) Em - --- Kate Cox wrote: > Ohhh, Song for Sharon. I was just listening to it this morning, I > don't > think I've ever listened to it without crying. It's now almost a year > since I first heard it and it changed my life irrevocably. Em, you > described it so well... >This song rips my face off, and it makes me > happy. > >Kinda like getting a new tattoo, raw and sticky.Doesn't it just tear > the > skin off you and expose all your trembling nerves? You are so right > that > it forces you to listen, it is insistent. I was thinking this morning > that, perhaps to someone who can't feel anything from Joni, that riff > as > it sidles in might sound quite innocuous, calm, free of passion... to > me, > it is the most powerful and direct riff, so strongly declarative. The > whole song is a declaration of freedom. "Sharon, I LEFT my man". Yet > at > the same time it is a wistful, aching prayer to be freed from her > conflict: "You still have your music, and I've still got my eyes on > the > land in the sky. You sing for your friends and your family, I'll walk > green pastures by and by". Have you seen the DVD documentary, "Woman > of > Heart and Mind"? In it she explains why she didn't marry Graham Nash: > she > remembered how her grandmother had been a frustrated musician, forced > to > give up her dreams for marriage, and she kicked in the door of the > barn. > I think that in her early albums, Joni was forever running away from > the > trap of that barn door... she knew that to express herself, to > understand > herself, to have full creative freedom, she couldn't allow herself to > be > "bound and tied to someone". You can almost trace the story through > her > songs, watch as she comes so close to belonging with somebody and > then > runs for the roads again. It begins on Song to a Seagull - "Her heart > is > full and hollow, like a cactus tree, being free" - and seems to end > on > Hejira: "I pulled into the Cactus Tree Motel, to shower off the dust, > and > I slept on the strange pillows of my wanderlust". You asked if she > turns > tough guy. I think she is certainly gentle with Sharon: "Sharon, > you've > got a husband, and a family, and a farm". She understands why Sharon > made > the opposite decision from hers: "The ceremony of the bells and lace > still veils this reckless fool here". It is herself she is tough on, > as > always: "I came out to the Big Apple here to face the dream's > malfunction" ... "The power of reason and the flowers of deep > feelings > seem to serve me only to deceive me". Oh, that pent up strength > close to > violence that you felt... I feel that too. Time is a pressure on Joni > in > Hejira; she knows she must resolve her conflict soon. On The Hissing > of > Summer Lawns she has already "laid down golden in time and woke up > vanishing"... now she has "a diamond snake around her arm" and she is > a > "chicken scratching for my mortality". She seems to be veering > towards > desperation as she realises that only in true solitude can she > experience > herself fully, but only in love can she feel whole: "You know I'm so > glad > to be on my own... but somehow the slightest touch of a stranger can > set > up trembling in my bones". But on the whole, I think it is solitude > she wants most strongly; her view of love seems to be a trap and a > battlefield: "A defector from the petty wars, until love sucks me > back > that way". Am I analysing this too much?! It's just that I think > about > Joni all the time and no-one around me is willing to entertain my > theories... they just think she is an unbearable screeching moaner. I > feel so alone!!!!! Love Kate C ===== ........... "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." Chuck Berry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:20:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Hejira - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > An interesting observation, Em...the songs about women > (Magdalene Laundries, Edith & The Kingpin, Shades of Scarlett, > etc) are certainly very strong, but I don't know that they're > any stronger than her pseudo-autobiographical ones or her > songs to/about men. > > So, convince me! :~) Hi Bob, only problem is...umm, it might not be true! From my perspective at this time, the perspective of a very incomplete and fairly neophyte JM listener ('cept for STAS and LOTC - have listened to those alot), it seems kind of true. That at this moment in time among the zillions of songs about her guys...those 3 I mentioned seem so very excellent. Not sure why, and that may change. Anyway I have never heard those 3 songs you refer to! :) So I'm not ready to make any real strong assertions at this time. But that could change. And you know I can't shut up! lol, so you'll know about it. Em ps even like "Marcie" horribly (to me) sad but very strong... it slays me. So I don't really want to listen to it. ===== ........... "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." Chuck Berry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:34:46 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] Happy Birthday Anita!! NJC Happy Birthday Anita!! Hope to see you in August, db >>> jrgoodspeed@yahoo.com 5/8/2004 1:21:00 PM >>> A Very Special Happy Birthday to Ms. Anita Gabrielle... dazzling singer/songwriter, multi-instrumentalist, beautiful and generous spirit and of course....keeper of Joni's guitar. xoxoxox Jenny Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:40:15 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira **Hi Bob, only problem is...umm, it might not be true! LOL! OK, so for the time being I'll remain unconvinced. Meanwhile, back to SfS covers...as you can probably guess it has NOT been widely covered. Two instrumentals (one by our own David Lahm) and a great vocal cover by The Uptown Trio. My guess is that the song is so specific and autobiographical that while other artists really dig it they don't feel comfortable doing it. When I saw Joni in Atlanta in '98, she performed SfS...it was the ONLY time she did it on that tour, I couldn't believe it! Bob NP: Steely Dan, "Sail The Waterway" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:26:13 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira, now mud and dirty water NJC Rose writes: << rosie loving all this dirty water....lol >> Dirty Water? Now we're talking Boston. Down by the river Down by the banks of the river Charles That's where you'll find me Along with the lovers, muggers and thieves Well I love that dirty water Oh, Boston you're my home (By Wm. Shakespeare) - --Smurf, off to go bicycling by the Charles before it rains ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:28:14 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_pro_choice=2C_=A0njc?= I always try to emulate Paz, and so since he is trying to catch up by wading through hundreds of emails and replying regardless of time since posting, I'm going to do the same. This counts as a "me too!" in that I am proud of the history we are making one week from today (no Smurph, not your new age, although that's historic too) with same-sex marriage. But, also, I had to laugh at Smurph's use of the phrase "fighting Quaker." My husband Alex - non-lister but has attended two Fests in the lovely Catskills and will be doing the same in a few short months - was raised in an intentional community in Pennsylvania and went to Quaker school from K-12. They didn't have football (too violent, I guess), but did play soccer (football most of the world, right?). What were they called...the "Fighting Quakers!" They never saw that as ironic, either. Go figure. - -----Original Message----- From: Smurfycopy@aol.com [mailto:Smurfycopy@aol.com] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 6:46 PM To: Ricw1217@aol.com; kay.ashley@willis.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: pro choice, njc Ric writes: << from massachusetts, where gay marriage is about to be a reality. i've never been so proud to be from this commonwealth. not since we stood alone and told nixon to go suck dirty canal water. >> I agree, Ric! And it has been fun in a sorta sicko way to watch that truly awful man, Gov. Romney, go through contortions to try to stop gay marriage, or to at least be seen by the equally awful "moral" right as doing everything possible to stop it. And regarding Nixon . . . the Bush administration is so evil, in my opinion, they make Tricky DIck seem almost benign. Who would have ever thought I'd miss Nixon! But give me a fighting Quaker any day over a born again holy crusader with a heartless corporation-Uber-alles agenda! Gee, I felt a lot better when I knew my president was being blown! - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:31:46 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20pro=20choice,=20quaker=20football=20--=A0n j?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?c?= Maggie writes: << What were they called...the "Fighting Quakers!" They never saw that as ironic, either. Go figure. >> Yes, McNally. That seems so much more ironic than say, the "Fighting Irish!" XO, - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:35:19 -0400 From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira, now mud and dirty water NJC WE call it Boss-ton here in Noo Joisey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:36:19 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell Centre will bring rides, cash influx to area NJC Aren't we all glad to see that the little blue man (getting littler by the day, I might add) is keeping his writing chops up? Thanks for the laugh, blue guy! Maggie - -----Original Message----- From: Smurfycopy@aol.com [mailto:Smurfycopy@aol.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:43 PM To: ljirvin@jmdl.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Joni Mitchell Centre will bring rides, cash influx to area By Rod Harden Saskatoon StarBurnup May 7, 2004 The Joni Mitchell Centre may become the Northern Hemisphere's star attraction under a proposal that is currently causing pockets of interest in Canada. It would be the name of a cultural complex penciled into development plans for the road to Baljenny, near Ms. Mitchell's old home town. The new Persephone Theatre would be the main occupant, along with a 100,000,000-250,000,000-square-foot airplane hangar dedicated to Mitchell's ego. If built, the theatre complex may see an increase in annual number of local Joni Mitchell Benjamins. Mary Haddaliddle-Lamb, an alleged family "friend" of the musician and artist, and Tourism Saskatoon official Randy Johnson admit to trying to make a few bucks off the notoriously bitter folk icon. Mitchell, her Saskatoon parents and Persephone, which is meeting with the city about its plans, have vastly varying levels of interest in this project, ranging from nil to ho-hum to frighteningly obsessive. The Mitchell room may revitalize the sixty-something chanteuse's fading career. Don't call it a comeback, though. She hates that word. It's a return. "This is a living kind of thing," Haddaliddle-Lamb said. "It'll be exciting. Especially the James Taylor ride," she added, winking lewdly. "I've been to Neverland and Graceland and Dollywood and I thought, 'Why don't we have something that's every bit as appallingly tacky for Joni Mitchell?' Think of it: Finally, there'll be a place where tourists can act like tourists, and Indians can act like Indians." Other cities have capitalized on homegrown musical talent. A popular rest stop is named after Burton Cummings in Winnipeg and a centre with sad little plastic souvenirs manufactured in cruel Third World sweatshops by poor abused women honours Shania Twain in Timmins, Ont. Mitchell, 60, was born on Mars and lived in Fort Macleod until she was an uppity and unusually opinionated two-year-old. Her family moved to Maidstone, then North Battleford after the Second World War. When Joni was nine years old she started smoking cigarettes, so they moved to Saskatoon for the cheaper carton prices. "She's got recognition worldwide -- a great following of fans," Johnson ejaculated, adding he expects Mitchell's name and memorabilia to draw "Old hippies, gay guys of all ages, and unhappy, rebellious Goth-type girls from the U.S. and overseas." "Living here in Saskatchewan, we don't realize how cold it really is until the spring arrives and the blizzards end and our faces stop hurting," Johnson explained. "And boy is the land flat here. Yes, siree, it's flat. They say that here in Saskatchewan you can watch your dog run away from home for three whole days. That's how flat the land is here." An exhibition of her artwork at the Mendel Art Gallery led to the temporary suspension of local smoking laws in 2000. The idea of a centre honouring Mitchell appeals to her mother, Myrtle Anderson. She's already thinking of having a Joni tag sale and selling for "a buck or two a pop" childhood photographs of her daughter, plus a wooden bird with painted wings, and 40 kick pleat skirts. "It's a nice idea. It's a strange thing, though. You know how Joni is just so freaking full of herself. I'm sure Miss High and Mighty expects everyone to build something more like the Vatican, but this is all she's gonna get. Ha!" Mitchell isn't conducting interviews on any topic other than the evil music business and Hopi predictions for imminent doom, her agent told The StarBurnup. Haddaliddle-Lamb raised the idea with Mitchell last summer, when she followed Joni to her parents' house one day, house one day, house one day, which was, apparently, against the rules. "Joni doesn't want something that a mere mortal would be happy with," Haddaliddle-Lamb said. "Oh no. She wants it more 'eternal,'' she said, making quote marks in the air with her fingers -- "Think the Pyramids, or the Taj Mahal." The music festival would fit well in early July, Johnson said, when tourist numbers temporarily swell for Moose Month and the annual Sweethearts' Mayple Syrup Dance-a-Thon. It would be an ideal celebration for the city's 2006 centennial -- which an intelligent person would call a "centenary" -- perhaps featuring a performance by a Lynyrd Skynnard cover band, he suggested. "Maybe they'll even do 'Sweetbird.'" Mrs. Anderson said she mailed her daughter the city's plan, some helpful hints for proper conduct, and a couple of pounds of homemade beaver jerky, but hasn't heard her opinion. Persephone expects its two-stage theatre to cost $6 million to build. But that's $6 million Canadian, so it's not that bad. But still. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #215 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)