From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #210 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, May 7 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 210 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Kurdistan, NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Kurdistan, NJC (PS to Patrick) [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Kurdistan, NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Kurdistan, NJC (PS to Patrick) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 1-10 of JM Covers [Emiliano ] Re: iTunes conundrum/tech/ NJC/thanks [Em ] Re: Joni mention on CHUM-FM just now [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 1-10 of JM Covers [SCJoniGuy@aol] Re: Joni mention on CHUM-FM just now [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Link njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 1-10 of JM Covers [SCJoniGuy@aol] FW: a female vet's thoughts on the iraqi torture scandal - njc ["Kate Ben] Cheeses of the Canyon JC ["Russell Bowden" ] Re: a female vet's thoughts on the iraqi torture scandal - njc ["tantra-a] Re: Demise of the Joni-Only list [Lori Fye ] Re: Demise of the Joni-Only list - NJC [Lori Fye ] RE: a female vet's thoughts on the iraqi torture scandal - njc ["Kate Ben] rush limbaugh's lettin' off steam on the iraqi torture scandal - njc ["pa] Re: rush limbaugh's lettin' off steam on the iraqi torture scandal - njc ["tantra-apso" ] Re: rush limbaugh's lettin' off steam on the iraqi torture scandal - njc [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 06:24:35 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Kurdistan, NJC In a message dated 06/05/2004 05:12:39 GMT Daylight Time, pleader@nyc.rr.com writes: << someone (i hate to say it, but i think it was kakki, clueless and drooling hatred of clinton as usual) said 'what about clinton, bombing iraq throughout the '90s?' in enforcing the no-fly zone over the kurds, WE WERE THE GOOD GUYS. >> You hate to say it? I find that hard to believe, given the number of times you have launched attacks on Kakki that go beyond disputing her opinions, or indeed completely trashing them, which would be entirely appropriate as far as I'm concerned. Dragging her name into posts of yours that are not responses to her and then insulting her seems gratuitous and snide, and leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. It's almost a form of mugging, sneaking up on someone unawares; I wouldn't like to read a post that wasn't addressed to me and suddenly find myself being attacked for something I said a few weeks ago. Colin earlier said: << Whether or not one agrees with Kakki's political point of view, it is neither honourable nor justified to take frequent swipes at her >> I couldn't agree more. Azeem in London NP: Beth Orton - Pass In Time ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 06:30:15 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Kurdistan, NJC (PS to Patrick) Having lambasted you for not addressing your remarks to their target, I realised after sending that I had inadvertently done the same thing - apologies for that. Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 06:41:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Kurdistan, NJC Patrick, I agree wholeheartedly with Azeem and Colin. Your post began well but when I got to that part, I stopped reading. It is entirely possible to make your point without naming names, and for no good reason. --- AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 06/05/2004 05:12:39 GMT Daylight > Time, pleader@nyc.rr.com > writes: > > << someone (i hate to say it, but i think it was > kakki, clueless and drooling > hatred of clinton as usual) said 'what about > clinton, bombing iraq throughout > the '90s?' in enforcing the no-fly zone over the > kurds, WE WERE THE GOOD > GUYS. >> > > You hate to say it? I find that hard to believe, > given the number of times > you have launched attacks on Kakki that go beyond > disputing her opinions, or > indeed completely trashing them, which would be > entirely appropriate as far as > I'm concerned. Dragging her name into posts of > yours that are not responses to > her and then insulting her seems gratuitous and > snide, and leaves a nasty > taste in my mouth. It's almost a form of mugging, > sneaking up on someone > unawares; I wouldn't like to read a post that wasn't > addressed to me and suddenly > find myself being attacked for something I said a > few weeks ago. > > Colin earlier said: > > << Whether or not one agrees with Kakki's political > point of view, it is > neither honourable nor justified to take frequent > swipes at her >> > > I couldn't agree more. > > Azeem in London > NP: Beth Orton - Pass In Time ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 06:44:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Kurdistan, NJC (PS to Patrick) --- AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > Having lambasted you for not addressing your remarks > to their target, I > realised after sending that I had inadvertently done > the same thing - apologies for > that. > > Azeem D'oh! So did I. It's all Azeem's fault ;-) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 06:55:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Joni mention on CHUM-FM just now I was just in the kitchen making coffee, turned on the radio for the news, but the news was all bad - it had just ended. The morning DJs on CHUM-FM, Roger, Rick and Marilyn do a questionnaire every day. Roger Ashby asks Rick Hodge three questions. If Rick can answer them, he then gets to ask a question of the listening audience. If Rick misses one, then you can call in and if you answer it right, you win a prize. This morning, Roger asked Rick the following question: "This recording artist refused to attend the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction in 1997(me now - I may have the year wrong) because she didn't want to deal with the media hoopla over her reunion with her daughter." And Rick, who is usually very quick with the answers, said, "It was because she was sitting in the lounge of the Empire Hotel." And then, he had a brain freeze and said, "It's just gone out of my head! I can't remember her name!" They went on to the next question, but then Rick yelled out, "Joni Mitchell!" Dang. I might have been able to win a prize! But I thought the reason Joni didn't go to the induction related to the outrageous amounts they wanted the inductees to pay for those attending. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 13:26:13 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 1-10 of JM Covers Hi, folks! The discs that Eric was soooooo kind to send to me... Are already here with me!!! I didn't listen to them, yet, but I've also notice there's a copy of Let's Sing Out show with them!!! (along with another disc for a MSWord document with the list of the songs) This is so masterly done, Eric! Well, I'll send them (I'll try to do it *tomorrow* morning) to Laurent in France: he asked me for it, and there are a couple of reasons I'm going to send them to him before any other else: He's one of this list's members that live close to me: this way (sending them to Laurent) he'll get them in less time than it would take to cross the oceans... He's someone I've got solid proofs to trust in his good manners about trading, sending stuff to people, etc: I'm absolutely sure about his seriousness regarding these things (and I'll even declare regarding *any* other things, indeed). I've seen other vines in this list disappear very soon... Well, correct me if I'm wrong, ie: if there's something unpolitely done about my decision for sending them to Laurent before posting a message about it in list, and also you can send me your name and address if you want this, I'll forward it to Laurent (you can write to him directly if you know his e-mail addy) so you can count on being the next (or so) lucky recipient of this amazing, wonderful etc. compilation made by the Cover King himself (Hail to Bob Muller) and that Eric, from Wisconsin, started to roll on. Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano PS: original post, with instructions, below. - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Music Is Special" Para: "Joni List" Enviado: sabado, 01 de mayo de 2004 17:39 Asunto: Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 1-10 of JM Covers > Getting back to the music....in order to enable latecomers to the list or > new traders have a chance of listening to Bob Muller's incredible > compilation of covers of Joni's songs - some 1500 in all - this begins the > launch of the Perpetual Joni Covers Trains. For those not familiar with > trading trains, here is how they work. When the disks come to you, you make > copies of as much of the contents as you want, and then you post back to > this list offering to pass the disks along to the next person. You do not > keep the originals -- you keep the copies you made for yourself. On most > trains, the convention is that you make the copies and send the masters > along within two days. For these trains, you must agree to turn them around > within one week. Sometimes the offer goes unclaimed. Bob and I expect that > to happen from time to time. So, by participating, you agree to just hang > on to the disks and then make another offer a month or so later (or to > respond if somebody posts a grovel looking for them). In theory, if > everybody takes good care of the disks, wrapping them well, not letting them > get scratched, etc. and passes them along, these covers will run on the > tracks for years. Bob copied 50+ disks for me to launch this and I have > copied them so there is a LOT of time sunk into offering these up. Nobody > is going to monitor the progress of these trains so if you participate and > then lose the disks or fail to reoffer them, you will have kept others from > enjoying them. When you post an offer, please include these "rules". One > final note, I know a few folks like to compress these into MP3s. If you > want to, go ahead but please do not send MP3s to the next person - MP3s > permanently delete some of the "data" and sound quality degrades so please > pass the masters along. > > So, anybody who would like to receive volumes 1-10 (there are actually more > than 10 disks because of Bob's initial numbering system), please send me: > 1. Your mailing address and > 2. Your promise to reoffer, etc. > > If you want to know what is on the disks, please see this link: > > > > http://www.jmdl.com/covers/byvolume.cfm > > > > > > Enjoy and have a nice weekend, Eric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 08:12:02 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Sharing Joni Around > Over the years, I've given a couple of friends Joni albums for birthday > gifts, and had generally good responses from the people in question. > > A good friend just turned 40 a couple of weeks ago and I bought him > "Blue" and "Hejira," which I thought he would find interesting and > meaningful. > > A couple of days later he left me a phone message and said "I can't get: > > 'We don't need no piece of paper from the city hall > Keepin us tied and true' > > out of my head." > > But then I felt like he really GOT Joni, when, a few days later he said > that while he liked Blue, he REALLY like Hejira. I almost asked him to > marry me right then (which is ironic considering the quote above!) Yeah. And considering we are still fighting for our piece of paper all over this country. xo Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 05:27:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: iTunes conundrum/tech/ NJC/thanks thanks Randy,Bob and David for the input. Gonna look now and see if this later version I have at work iTunes lets me "convert to .mp3". hmmm..if not - how very useless. Em ===== ........... "thats just the scale; the fish come later". ;) Norman Blake ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:35:56 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni mention on CHUM-FM just now Night writer Catherine, posting in the morning just to spite me, says: << I thought the reason Joni didn't go to the induction related to the outrageous amounts they wanted the inductees to pay for those attending. >> I am not sure exactly what Joni's reason was, but I know this is the first I have heard that it had anything to do with the mother and daughter reunion. In fact, I would have thought that the Hall of Fame induction occurred before the reunion. Anyone know the exact dates of each event? Maybe Catherine can call the radio station with a correction and win a prize which she can then donate to the Northeast Jonifest raffle, which is brought to you by Maggie McNally and her lovely husband Alex. - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 08:42:00 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 1-10 of JM Covers **(along with another disc for a MSWord document with the list of the songs) This is so masterly done, Eric!** Well put, Emiliano...when Eric approached me with this vine/ train idea, I didn't hesitiate to let him run with it because over the years I've found him to be impeccably professional and very thorough. I new he would do a bang-up job and as you say he has done exactly that. Just as an aside, if somebody should need the tracklist documents for any of these volumes, please do not hesitate to ask and I'll be happy to send them. The JMDL covers website does tell you which songs are on which CD, BUT it orders them alphabetically by artist, so the sequencing is not the same as it is on the actual CD. Thanks again to Eric for getting this going, and thanks in advance to everyone who requests these CD's, even if all you do is listen and pass them on. Believe it or not, there is much to be gained in terms of knowledge of Joni's work by listening to the way she is interpreted by others. Some will make you laugh, some will make you weep, but they will all give you a greater appreciation for the greatest composer of our lifetimes. Bob NP: Bruce, "American Skin (41 Shots)" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 13:48:24 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: Joni mention on CHUM-FM just now Hi Catherine Yes, it possibly was... I don't think that she had to *pay* per se to attend but the 'honour' the artists gets to be inducted is to play music for the event - which isn't paid for by the event organisers - so rehearsals, hiring bandmembers, etc etc wasn't covered by the costs. Also they don't fly your nearest and dearest across to let them watch you get induced (I think this is a better term in Joni's eyes) so you have to pay for flights accommodation etc for your partner, family etc... And yeah, I'm sure if she could avoid unwarranted publicity with the Kilauren thing (I think she arranged for the press to come for photoshoots when the news broke - it would seem) as I'm sure she wouldn't want to field questions about her personal life at an event that was supposed to be about music. She's careful about what she says and with something as fragile as his was I'm sure she wanted to cottonball it for a while longer. Much Joni Jamie Zoob > But I thought the reason Joni didn't go to the > induction related to the outrageous amounts they > wanted the inductees to pay for those attending. > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:55:02 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Our Lady of Perpetual Covers -- NJC Muller writes: << Some will make you laugh, some will make you weep, but they will all give you a greater appreciation for the greatest composer of our lifetimes. >> And don't forget, THEY FLY! XO, - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 09:44:20 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni mention on CHUM-FM just now **I don't think that she had to *pay* per se to attend ** Just to clarify - there WAS a ***FEE*** that she was required to pay, and she blew it off. Not a good PR move but a very sincere Joni-esque move. Bob NP: Bruce, "Who'll Stop The Rain" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 09:58:19 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: More on Joni & The Hall Can be found at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/RockRollHall97.html The two performances from that night are both in the Covers collection: Shawn Colvin - Free Man InParis James Taylor - Woodstock Bob NP: Bruce, "I'm On Fire" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 10:34:13 -0400 (EDT) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: Re: iTunes conundrum/tech/ NJC Quoting SCJoniGuy@aol.com: > I downloaded a couple of songs on itunes...supposedly you can burn them > to a > disc, but for the life of me I haven't figured out how. The instructions > on > the itunes website are well-hidden, if there at all. > > If I can't transfer a download to a disc, it's of no value to me. I haven't had any problems, but I am Mac all the way, so maybe that's why. MP4 files will play on MP3 player and on standard cd players, like the MAC AAC files. In order to burn to an mp3 you must convert them using ITunes which is very easy to do. If anyone is having any problems e-mail me with specifics and I'll try and help you out. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 17:24:36 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 1-10 of JM Covers Hi, Bob! > **(along with another disc for a MSWord document with the list of the songs) > This is so masterly done, Eric!** > > Well put, Emiliano...when Eric approached me with this vine/ > train idea, I didn't hesitiate to let him run with it because > over the years I've found him to be impeccably professional > and very thorough. I new he would do a bang-up job and as you > say he has done exactly that. > > Just as an aside, if somebody should need the tracklist > documents for any of these volumes, please do not hesitate to > ask and I'll be happy to send them. The JMDL covers website > does tell you which songs are on which CD, BUT it orders them > alphabetically by artist, so the sequencing is not the same > as it is on the actual CD. Err... not exactly: the order for the songs in the "Joni Covers List.doc" I'm seeing right now is alphabetical like the list in the JMDL website. An improvement is the fact that the order for the discs is the correct, putting "1,2-1, 2-2, 2-3 ,3..." instead of "1, 11, 12...", and then "2, 2-1, 2-2, 2-3, 20, 21..." etc Also are included some videoclips I haven't yet watched (NJC) > > Thanks again to Eric for getting this going, and thanks in > advance to everyone who requests these CD's, even if all you > do is listen and pass them on. Believe it or not, there is > much to be gained in terms of knowledge of Joni's work by > listening to the way she is interpreted by others. Some will > make you laugh, some will make you weep, but they will all > give you a greater appreciation for the greatest composer of > our lifetimes. > > Bob Yes, it is! Is very very enjoyable, and very interesting finding *even more* nuances in Master Joni's songs I love your statement about " Some will make you laugh, some will make you weep"... it's just like Life, or even this JMDList, indeed! Have a Wonderful time! Yours Grateful: Emiliano NP: Urge For Going, Tom Rush ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:38:44 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Demise of the Joni-Only list - njc, i guess I checked my send box... You are right I did reply to a post & didn't check to see if there was a njc tag on it (there wasn't & there should have been)... I usually catch this when replying... I think sometimes this happens, even when people are pretty good at it... It especially happens when replying to a post that forgot the njc tag... People are tired or something... Anyway it's a good reminder to be more vigilent.. Sorry ed & others but I guess you aren't reading this... Oh well! Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:55:50 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: meeting patty griffin * impossible dream tour NJC Thanks so much for the review mags! I saw Patty on her last tour & even drove to LA & stood up (cuz that is what the venue was like- the Troubador) the entire concert to see her... This is something I would do for very few people these days, maybe no one else... But I didn't hear her play piano! How cool she is doing this... I agree that seeing Patty in concert is incredible... That voice! Her songwriting is the best out there these days... She has such a unique voice (as in songwriting but also physical too) that has so much compassion in it for her characters... Mags>Nikki, Brian and I went to see Patty Griffin at the Keswick in Glenside, PA this evening. Patty is incredible! I dont know what else to say other than she blew everyone's socks off with her presence and gifts of song writing, singing, piano playing !!.Has anyone seen her play piano before? I didnt know she could ! A night to remember for many reasons. Wonderful to share a concert like this with other jmdlers .< www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 09:32:54 -0500 From: Kate Subject: lovemaking music, not Zoobositi: > Can I say that listening to DED, CMIARS, WTRF and NRH (but not as much) on > headphones is an amazing thing. Joni was on the stereo the other night as background music to a session in our private playground, and I have decided that her music is not conducive to lovemaking! Who knew? Her songs must be cerebral or something -- I kept focusing on her words rather than the immediate action in front of me. The music was distracting rather than reinforcing, unlike, say, a Dave Matthews CD is. Your thoughts welcome ... Kate du Nord Can't Promise No More Bird Pics http://xoetc.antville.org Who does she think she is, Anaos Nin? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:14:06 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Link njc http://www.bushflash.com/unb.html This says so much Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 14:20:43 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 1-10 of JM Covers **Err... not exactly: the order for the songs in the "Joni Covers List.doc" I'm seeing right now is alphabetical like the list in the JMDL website. Well, if you want the MS Word files for those, just say so. You know I'm at your service and always having a wonderful time! Bob NP: Bruce, "Darkness on the Edge of Town" 2/19/03 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:26:47 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: FW: a female vet's thoughts on the iraqi torture scandal - njc Patrick>i'd be interested in people's thoughts on this. http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_05/003840.php I read it, I was really surprised at her view of feminism (being macho) when she was in the service... but then that word has always meant different things to different people which is why some people do not like that word... I also read some of the comments & was surprised to see someone say that some americans are actually defending this offense... That is very hard to believe... I hope it isn't so... I felt somewhat hopeful by the nonpartisan outrage in congress... On the other hand RL twisted it around... Normally I ignore him as he's just too disgusting & disturbing to pay attention to, but in this case I looked cuz I had a hard time believing anyone would not be digusted... I suppose I shouldn't be surprised but it is disturbing to me because he has so many followers... Of course during the course of his rant he manages to swerve into a rant where he bashes kerry for his own war atrocities... Then he says this: "You know, if you really look at these pictures, I mean I don't know if it's just me but it looks like anything you'd see Madonna or Britney Spears do on stage. Maybe you can get an NEA grant for something like this. I mean this is something you can see at Lincoln Center from an NEA grant, maybe on Sex in the City: the Movie. I mean, it's just me. " Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 12:37:38 -0700 From: "Russell Bowden" Subject: Cheeses of the Canyon JC Gang, If Joni came back as a dairy food product (cheese aisle) I'm thinking a lovely taste of boursin with garlic and black pepper on warm French bread, accompanied by a dreamy Merlot (if I drank) Yummy! Oh, yeah, gotta have some apples and conversation, too. You bring me some songs to play. Excuse me while I put on DJRD and Blue while I stuff my face with some Paprika Plains. My frying pan is wide enough for a big batch. Burp! Aloha nui, Russellulu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 22:22:51 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: a female vet's thoughts on the iraqi torture scandal - njc Who is RL? quote: Without those photos, not only would I have been difficult to convince that the abuse happened, I would never have believed that women participated. This is plain stupid. Anyone who believes some women don't behave just as badly as some men, needs to open their eyes. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:57:53 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Demise of the Joni-Only list > Thanks for replying. Sorry, I can see I wasn't as > clear as I'd intended to be. > > The Joni-only digest I referred to had only one > Joni-related post, but many non-Joni posts. What I was > lamenting was the fact that this has become a real > trend lately (you might not realize this, as I suspect > you're not a Joni-only). It's getting more difficult > to wade though this socio-political stuff to get to > the Joni content - which is what I subscribed to the > Joni-only list for in the first place. See what I > mean? Yes Ed, I do see what you mean, and you have a valid point. Everyone, PLEASE REMEMBER to use the NJC tag as appropriate! Lori, who doesn't like to see people un*sub ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 15:52:29 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Demise of the Joni-Only list - NJC > For instance, YOUR post should have been marked NJC and wasn't. ;~) Fair enough, although I actually did think about it and decided that I wanted to "hit all bases" anyway and so I left the tag off on purpose. : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:54:35 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Kurdistan, NJC dear catherine and azeem: criticism of the 'attack' on kakki acknowledged and accepted. i particularly would hate to have people lose sight of the fact that my post was about the kurds. azeem and colin, i do not accept the position that the frequency of my attacks on kakki is an issue, for the sad reason that 90% of her wildest political claims on this list go by without me or anyone else challenging her. you wouldn't want to see truly frequent attacks, and i wouldn't want to waste my time. but indeed, colin, catherine and azeem, i should have challenged her directly on the "what about clinton bombing iraq" comment at the time since it was a wrongheaded criticism of clinton's actions in the situation. and in more temperate language, rather than, as azeem so aptly described it 'mugging' her, and i think, anyone who was reading the post. not good behaviour. i apologize. patrick > >Patrick, I agree wholeheartedly with Azeem and Colin. >Your post began well but when I got to that part, I >stopped reading. It is entirely possible to make your >point without naming names, and for no good reason. > and then insulting her seems gratuitous and >> snide, and leaves a nasty >> taste in my mouth. It's almost a form of mugging, >> sneaking up on someone >> unawares; ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 16:10:51 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: a female vet's thoughts on the iraqi torture scandal - njc rush limbaugh, it pains me to write his whole name... He represents the worst of america in my not at all humble opinion... He is a right wing radio dj who is a big influence on many conservative americans & his methods are full of hatred & anger... He is the epitome of the ugly american... one of the things he used to arrogantly spout was that all drug addicts should be locked up... then he got arrested for mass quantities of prescriptions drugs... Another american, (Saturday night live writer) al frankin wrote a book called "rush limbaugh is a big fat idiot"... He is all that Colin asked >Who is RL? Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:09:29 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: rush limbaugh's lettin' off steam on the iraqi torture scandal - njc colin, RL is rush limbaugh. kate quoted him from may 4: "You know, if you really look at these pictures, I mean I don't know if it's just me but it looks like anything you'd see Madonna or Britney Spears do on stage. Maybe you can get an NEA grant for something like this. I mean this is something you can see at Lincoln Center from an NEA grant, maybe on Sex in the City: the Movie. I mean, it's just me. " but this exchange, even worse: CALLER: It was like a college fraternity prank that stacked up naked men -- LIMBAUGH: Exactly. Exactly my point! This is no different than what happens at the Skull and Bones initiation and we're going to ruin people's lives over it and we're going to hamper our military effort, and then we are going to really hammer them because they had a good time. You know, these people are being fired at every day. I'm talking about people having a good time, these people, you ever heard of emotional release? You of heard of need to blow some steam off? just ick. and where's the right-wing outrage? there's none so far. patrick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 00:19:34 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: rush limbaugh's lettin' off steam on the iraqi torture scandal - njc I am glad I don't know who he is! Could i listen to him and not smash the radio up? Probably but I am very glad I don't get to hear him. people such as him are beyond me tho not beyond my gp who believes some people are subject to dark forces. I can understand that, I just differ in where that darkness comes form. i think it is internal. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:19:48 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: work, njc Kate C. wrote: my boyfriend recognises that hard-working people need help with housework etc, and he is perfectly happy to take on this role when my career is underway and we live together. This may be unconventional, but it seems to be the best arrangement for both of us, and who we are. Hi Kate, This reminds me of my husband. He is better at doing housework than I am sometimes. When I got back from Chicago, the house was cleaner than when I left it, and the laundry was done and folded. Usually, we each do our own laundry. I do the kids' laundry most of the time, but he pitches in too when need be. I do more of cooking than he does, but I don't cook every day... maybe once or twice a week. The rest of the time it is a grab your own situation. The kids know how to heat up a can of ravioli's or make a sandwich, etc. so they are on their own too. Robert is probably the least chauvenistic man I know. When we were dating, he let me borrow his John Lennon album that has the song "Woman is the Nigger of the World" on it so I knew he wouldn't expect me to fit any stereotypical role. I wouldn't have been as interested in him if he had. As for Marianne's questions about work: What are your work hours? Nothing regular. I'm obliged to be there when the classes I teach meet or when we are writing a test or planning a course. We team teach so nothing is just up to me. My summers and holidays are pretty free, but I could get called in any time. I do a lot of work out of my home office. I have a work computer here. I have an office at work, but I don't have any of my stuff in it other than a guitar which Jennifer returned to me. I don't use my office at the med school except on rare ocassions. How much time off each year? I have no idea. I have no regular hours. I do a lot of work in the evenings in my home, preparing for teaching, etc. Like right now... I'm sort of working, but you can't tell. I have a TV on my desk and am listening to a video I'll let the students see tomorrow in preparation for the national boards. It is on the nervous system, the brain stem. So, I'm working/playing. Work is my hobby in sense. Sometimes, I feel very busy, but most of the time I don't. I get paid well, but I'm not competitively trying to be promoted, etc. I went from full time to part time this past July and got a raise in doing so. Nothing is typical about my job. Stressful or not? Stressful sometimes... yes, very stressful. I have to KNOW so much. That is why I'm listening to this video right now, incase it mentions something I don't remember off hand. When I go to work, it is like taking a test. I get questioned by the med students who can really tangle things up, so much so that sometimes I have a hard time figuring out what is right and what is wrong in what they are saying. The stress level of medical school is high. So, high stress just goes with the territory so to speak. The pace is very fast and the amount of material is great because ultimately as physicians, they've got to know a lot if they are to save the lives of their patients and truly "do no harm." Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 16:30:21 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: rush limbaugh's lettin' off steam on the iraqi torture scandal - njc Holy crapola... This guy is worse than I ever imagined was possible... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 22:12:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Kurdistan, NJC --- patrick leader wrote: > dear catherine and azeem: > > criticism of the 'attack' on kakki acknowledged and > accepted. i > particularly would hate to have people lose sight of > the fact that my post > was about the kurds. > > azeem and colin, i do not accept the position that > the frequency of my > attacks on kakki is an issue, for the sad reason > that 90% of her wildest > political claims on this list go by without me or > anyone else challenging > her. To be perfectly honest, I delete most of the political posts. Sometimes I try to follow them because, as a non-American, I am interested in what goes on just a little bit south of me. I don't particularly understand many of these posts but, more than that, I also don't think opinions will be swayed by these posts. Yeah, OK, maybe people who tend to swing back and forth between political parties, but I'm on the left, more of a moderate lefty, but that's by Canadian standards - maybe I'm a flamin' Commie in American terms, but I doubt it. It's highly unlikely my opinions on that would change, but hey, ya never know. In any event, they wouldn't be changed by the arguing that goes on back and forth between people on this list. I realize some people get very passionate about their politics. Maybe I am in my own way, but I hate arguing with people and I don't like yelling, even the cyber kind. There's a lot of stuff that pisses me off, but I usually don't talk about it much. I respect the fact that other people may have strong feelings that are diametrically opposed to mine. Even though they're wrong (ha! thought I'd throw that one in to see if anyone noticed. If they didn't before, I guess they do now), I wouldn't try to convince them to change their views by arguing with them. I suppose, if it were possible to present plain facts to them and let them decide for themselves, that could work. But I seriously doubt there are many plain facts in this world, apart from mathematical equations. Everything we do, say, feel, think, is coloured by our own feelings and opinions. It's amazing when you see what is apparently the same story interpreted in so many ways by different people and factions, and yet each claims theirs is the true story. I guess if I knew for sure that what someone was saying was absolutely incorrect, I might refute it. But I tend to view all of the "facts" that people speak, regarding politics, religion and so on, as not facts at all, but mere opinion. And I'm a big suck, so I probably wouldn't argue with them at all. But I'd still vote the way I was going to vote to begin with. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 22:30:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: rush limbaugh's lettin' off steam on the iraqi torture scandal - njc --- patrick leader wrote: > colin, RL is rush limbaugh. > > kate quoted him from may 4: > > "You know, if you really look at these pictures, I > mean I don't know if > it's just me but it looks like anything you'd see > Madonna or Britney > Spears do on stage. Maybe you can get an NEA grant > for something like > this. I mean this is something you can see at > Lincoln Center from an NEA > grant, maybe on Sex in the City: the Movie. I mean, > it's just me. " > > but this exchange, even worse: > > CALLER: It was like a college fraternity prank that > stacked up naked men -- > > LIMBAUGH: Exactly. Exactly my point! This is no > different than what happens > at the Skull and Bones initiation and we're going to > ruin people's lives > over it and we're going to hamper our military > effort, and then we are going > to really hammer them because they had a good time. > You know, these people > are being fired at every day. I'm talking about > people having a good time, > these people, you ever heard of emotional release? > You of heard of need to > blow some steam off? > > just ick. and where's the right-wing outrage? > there's none so far. > > patrick I'm not particularly familiar with this guy, though I've heard of him. Isn't he a sort of shock-jock that deliberately says stupid and outrageous things just to goad people? I don't pay much attention to people like that either and wonder why anyone would. They're just plain tiresome. It would be another thing entirely if they could say something intelligent. This is just trying to crank people up and it works. My thoughts on the torture thing. It may be appalling, but it's not necessarily shocking. This is the kind of shit people do when they're at war with one another. It's horrible and it's nasty and we all think that "our side" is nice and plays fair and would never do that sort of thing but, the truth is, they would, and they do. Governments used to be more obvious about describing "the enemy." If you've ever seen ads or posters from WWI and WWII, there would be some pretty nasty propoganda about the yellow peril, or the nasty Nazis and so on, designed to make people hate the other side and view them as less-than-human so they could get over their distaste of one day possibily having to kill someone. You send a bunch of young people to a foreign country. They've been trained and all that, but they've never done anything real - it has all been war games. Then you dump them in Iraq and they're all stressed out and tense to begin with because this is the real thing. People are shooting at them and they realize a lot of people really don't like them. They're upset and confused and pissed off by now. They capture some prisoners. There are a couple of schoolyard bullies who start something stupid. There are a bunch of followers who might not instigate something like this on their own but hey, if someone else starts it, they just join right in. There may be a few that don't like it but they're either afraid to say anything or they're hushed up by the others. Or maybe it happens when only the bullies and their cronies are there. Let's face it - while many people enlist in the armed forces as a career and because they want to do something to serve their country, there are many more who go in because they can't get any other kind of job, and maybe it's their ticket out of poverty. I have no idea who the "Skull and Bones" is/are supposed to be but, for my part, I believe that any kind of hazing, or these kinds of initiations Rush Limbaugh is talking about are abusive. There's nothing fun about it, unless you enjoy tormenting people and probably small animals too. Nothing to laugh about at all. Rush Limbaugh is an idiot. He gets paid way too much money. They should hire a few people with brains and taste to take his place. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 22:31:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: a female vet's thoughts on the iraqi torture scandal - njc --- Kate Bennett wrote: > rush limbaugh, it pains me to write his whole > name... He represents the > worst of america in my not at all humble opinion... Have pity on him. He has a stupid name. Maybe he's paying his parents back vicariously. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 00:49:12 -0400 From: vince Subject: njc news takes me up short I worked at Catholic Family Services with families with children in foster care. One client, Amy, was a person who you just knew would never pull it together. Her son S was very special to me, he was very afraid of his mother's boyfriend and every time I transported S to visits he would tell me of how mom's bf beat the shit out of her and him and the baby. We worked hard to give S a sense of a normal life. I took him to the Air Zoo and other places like an A&W root beer stand he had never been, to experience some life as a regular kid does. And what was tough knowing that despite S's best wishes his mother Amy was never going to get off the drugs and get it together, that she would never be a mother to him. I liked Amy though, she was a nice person with a huge weakness she could not control. Turned out I had known her parents for years, he was a Lutheran pastor. Because Amy pronounced her last name differently than her parents, I took me a long time to connect them. I had given serious thought to adopting S but was not able to because his grandparents had a higher priority (although he had no bond with them - Amy never spent time with them so neither did S) and S was one-half Native American so tribal law would mean that I would have to prove I could raise him with cultural heritage better than with a Native American family and he odds were slim that would happen. My heart went out to that kid so much. The Agency closed the foster care department and the clients transferred to other positions and I was out of a job. That was in 95. Last time I saw S. I saw Amy once after that, she was at a crack house across the street from where I lived and I saw everyone come and go. I moved from Kalamazoo in 1997 (and wish to hell I had stayed but that is another story). I still get the Kalamazoo paper. The news had been of an unidentified body found in the Asylum Lake area (an area that people go for sex and drugs) so decomposed they didn't know if it were male or female. They knew it was a homicide. Right after Friends I picked up the Kazoo paper and they identified the body. Amy. No news in the paper about where S is, who would now be about 16. Called some of the other case workers with whom I worked. One of our clients now works as a waitress (glad she is actually working). Got some other news of others. And my heart is going out towards S, that little boy whose hand I used to hold because he was so scared of the mother's boyfriend and had been beaten him so much, every time we walked from the car to a building and back again he was afraid that man was behind every tree and would hurt him. Reminds me of how many of my problems are trivial. And I cry for S, where ever he is, having lost the mother he never had. And S. someone who I had seriously considered adopting as my own if it had been possible - I am unable to comfort him now. Vince ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #210 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)