From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #198 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, April 29 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 198 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Mindless trivia NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] RE: Something a little different on Ebay - definitely NJC ["Wally Kairuz"] Re: pro choice, njc [Garret ] disgusting war stuff NJC [Em ] Re: Diana Krall's "Black Crow" ["G'n H" ] Re: Diana Krall's "Black Crow" [Ken ] Re: pro choice, njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: pro choice, njc [Jerry Notaro ] microsoft word njc [Garret ] Re: pro choice, njc [Emiliano ] re: beat of black wings ["Paul Mepschen" ] a request ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: microsoft word njc, now stupid admissions [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Diana Krall's "Black Crow" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: microsoft word njc, now stupid admissions [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: microsoft word njc, now stupid admissions [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: loretta lynn - NJC ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: loretta lynn - NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Loretta Lynn - NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Love Actually DVD [Greg Dexter ] LOGO CONTEST!!!!!!!!! [Claud9 ] Re: microsoft word njc, nowmuller's dotage [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Rolling Stone ["Kate Cox" ] Bushworld PC NJC [was More about pro-choice (and war)] [dsk ] Re: LOGO CONTEST!!!!!!!!! [Em ] 9/11 testimony njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Beat of Black Wings njc ["tantra_apso" ] RE: colin powell name calling, njc ["patrick leader" ] Re: microsoft word njc, nowmuller's dotage [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: microsoft word njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: microsoft word njc, now stupid admissions [Catherine McKay Subject: Mindless trivia NJC My reply to Catherine see below....who was responding to a whole string of posts on this.... but mostly about licking elbows.... --- Randy Remote wrote: > AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > > >Almost everyone who reads this email will try to > lick their elbow. > > I DID try it! I'll bet some flexible person can do this..... I tried it too. I guess that one's true. I'm going to keep trying until I can do it (it's my new raison d'etre.) ===== Catherine Toronto LULU NOW...... Not just a raison d'etre darling..think of what it can do for our crepey neck syndrome!!! And another point of trivia.. about elbows... (of all things). the one place you cannot touch with your right hand is your right elbow..... and likewise you cannot stroke your right knee with your right foot.. (and the same goes for left hands and elbows and knees and feet....) Oh I feel a song coming on.... Byee now.... Queen Lulu (who has the wonderful Miranda staying ...Yes Mimi (the Norah Jones look alike) has landed all the way from Canada.. Mags Holden-Gross has entrusted her little jewel in to my care.. I am glad she is from somewhere cool as so far the weather has been shitty.... Rain and rain and more rain..but hey! it is England...what did she expect..... N P..Scissor Sisters "take your mama" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:10:17 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Something a little different on Ebay - definitely NJC thanks for the laugh, hell! *W* > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > hell@ihug.co.nz > Enviado el: Jueves, 29 de Abril de 2004 01:08 a.m. > Para: joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Something a little different on Ebay - definitely NJC > > > This is a bit of a laugh, if you can be bothered reading it > all! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4146756343#ebayphot > > > Hell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:34:16 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: pro choice, njc I have been silently following this thread and have found it very enlightening. One of the great things about this list is the honesty it fosters. I just want to thank all of those that have shared on this topic. It is a massively thought provoking issue. As a tweny three year old gay guy it is an issue that i am very mixed up about and maybe not qualified to discuss. I have, for the last seven years, vacillated between extremes, and have probably settled, for now, somewhere in the middle. To clear things up *for myself* i pose the hypothetical question: what would you do Garret, if your sister came to you and said she had had an abortion? I think i'd hug her and be there for her, physically, emotionally - if that is what she wanted. Again, thank you all for so many honest and cogent posts. GARRET np- Christy Moore, Lisdoonvarna - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 04:32:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: disgusting war stuff NJC anybody catch 60 Minutes II last evening? What our "golden girls and boys" were caught on film doing to some Iraqui POW's? I guess I'm hoping from the depths of my optimistic little American soul that this was an isolated incident reflecting the personal perversion and cruelty (and stupidity to take pictures) of a FEW soldiers, and that it doesn't reflect on our soldiers in general. I think was struck me and shocked me was the one female it showed repeatedly, apparently right at the forefront of it all. The other thing was the complex nature of all what they set up. Strange scenes, creepie scenes, scenes that would only ever be OK if all parties were consenting. You think maybe those Iraquis consented to all that? That it tickled them to be involved? I'm kind of doubting it..... Anybody think there's a chance this is a scam? That it "never happened"? As a side note, my neighbor's ex boyfriend was returned from Iraq facing rape charges. For allegedly raping an Iraqui woman in a street gang bang. the mind reels. Em NP the hum of my loud film imagesetter at work..dang its loud ===== ........... "thats just the scale; the fish come later". ;) Norman Blake __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:39:34 +0300 From: "G'n H" Subject: Re: Diana Krall's "Black Crow" Is it Diana Krall herself playing the piano? I have listened to this beautiful piano, that has such a "round" sense of timing and very musical lines all the time. Do you happen to know if she is playing and singing at the same time? I was allready so imazed about her sound and phrasing in singing. Wow! When I'll get home, I'll start to listen agen about the versions of Black Crow in S&L and MOA -albums, and do my homeworks well. ______________________ A course of grace and havoc ********************** Special kudos to electric guitarist Anthony Wilson & to Diana herself for her piano work. There are nice solos throughout, and the rhythm section does a nice job of keeping time without drawing attention to themselves (not exactly Jaco-like behavior, but then again nobody else has his talent). With this release and with Cassandra's version, Black Crow potentially moves into a higher level as far as "jazz vocal standards" go. At least, maybe. One can only hope, as it is one my favorite Joni songs and because of the chord structure it really seems to present itself for jazz interpretation. Coincidentally, I had Joni's S&L in my schizophrenic car player...never know what it's going to play...and it cranked up disc 2 which kicks off with Black Crow. Obviously I had heard it before (about a zillion times, plus or minus 100) but once again I was amazed at the precision of this band...give it a spin and just totally immerse yourself at how tight these players are. What stuck out to me this listen was the drumming of Don Alias...he follows the rhythm yet he's all over the place. Michael Brecker absolutely NAILS his solo's...sharp, concise, melodic, always interesting. Then there's Jaco at the end, bouncing off the walls but working within the framework of the song itself...and riding herd over everyone is Joni herself, with great rhythm guitar and a solid wonderful power- ful vocal. At the TOP of her game here in terms of being a bandleader. Homework - Black Crow, from Shadows & Light. Bob ********************** _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:12:57 -0400 From: Ken Subject: Re: Diana Krall's "Black Crow" No question about it. Diana is well know as a Jazz pianist and quite capable of singing and playing ensemble. K G'n H wrote: > Is it Diana Krall herself playing the piano? I have listened to this > beautiful piano, that has such a "round" sense of timing and very > musical lines all the time. Do you happen to know if she is playing > and singing at the same time? I was allready so imazed about her sound > and phrasing in singing. Wow! > > When I'll get home, I'll start to listen agen about the versions of > Black Crow in S&L and MOA -albums, and do my homeworks well. > > ______________________ > A course of grace and havoc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:51:39 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: pro choice, njc Garret writes: << To clear things up *for myself* i pose the hypothetical question: what would you do Garret, if your sister came to you and said she had had an abortion? I think i'd hug her and be there for her, physically, emotionally - if that is what she wanted. >> This reminds me of something I saw on TV a few years ago. Someone (Oprah, maybe) was interviewing the nun who wrote or was part of the "Dead Man Walking" story. (Sorry, never read the book or saw the movie, and I forget the nun's name.) Anyway, the nun said that if Jesus were alive today he'd be more likely to be found comforting women who were leaving abortion clinics rather than harassing women who were going in to the clinics. - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:03:17 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: pro choice, njc And this did happen to me, 34 years ago. My sister was single and 17. I told her she should get an abortion and continue with school. Instead, she chose to marry the guy (a jerk who abused her) and had my nephew Randy. She divorced the jerk, remarried and had 2 more gorgeous boys. In fact, Randy will be here in Florida tomorrow and I will spend 4 days with him. He is a joy and the first of my parents grandchildren. But I I still don't regret that my sister had a choice. Jerry np: Jimmy Scott - Almost Blue > Garret writes: > > << To clear things up *for myself* i pose the hypothetical question: what > would > > you do Garret, if your sister came to you and said she had had an abortion? > > I think i'd hug her and be there for her, physically, emotionally - if that is > > what she wanted. >> > > This reminds me of something I saw on TV a few years ago. Someone (Oprah, > maybe) was interviewing the nun who wrote or was part of the "Dead Man > Walking" > story. (Sorry, never read the book or saw the movie, and I forget the nun's > name.) Anyway, the nun said that if Jesus were alive today he'd be more likely > to > be found comforting women who were leaving abortion clinics rather than > harassing women who were going in to the clinics. > > --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:10:19 +0100 From: Garret Subject: microsoft word njc Sometimes i think that there is a little person inside this computer having a great old laugh at my expense! Computers, printers and scanners especially, have a speical way of stressing me out that most people can't nearly rival. On to MS word. Why does it keep telling me that my grammar is wrong when i type an essay or whatever? Sometimes it is right. sometimes i am missing a semicolon, sure, but really, is the passive voice so bad? Why does it tell me to use "which" and then when i change it tell me to use "that" and then when i change it tell me to use "which"? eh? Why oh why does it keep reconfiguring the paragraphs? why does it *sometimes* refuse to let me indent? sometimes it changes the font type, size, and line spacing of the previous paragraph when i hit return. why is this? why does it *sometimes* automatically correct all my (very many) hte and hwen typos to the correct the and when, but tehn when i'm tired and really would appreciate this it stops doing it? why does it automatically convert cingulate to cingulated every time i type it when cingulate is what i want? and yes word, i'm certain of that! GARRET (shaking his fists to the sky and getting strange looks from the others in this computer room) np- Gillian Welch, I wnat to sing that rock and roll - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:42:27 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: pro choice, njc Hi, Bob! Just for stating her name: she's Sister Helen Prejean. I *love* this woman: I've got her "Dead Man Walking" book, the movie, and also a documentary (made by one of finest Spain's directors: late Ricardo Franco) where she talks about her tasks) And of course, I would like also to thank great Susan Sarandon & Tim Robbins: the movie production from the USA wouldn't be the same if not for them! BTW, I *absolutely* agree with Kate: Suzanne, your post was one of the *most dirt* thing I've read in ages! Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano, still feeling shaken by it NP: One Candle, Sam Brown, Croydon 13 April 2004 PS: Bob, I understand that you haven't read the book or saw the movie: it's so hard! (ask any of my pupils about it...) - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Para: ; Enviado: jueves, 29 de abril de 2004 14:51 Asunto: Re: pro choice, njc > Garret writes: > > << To clear things up *for myself* i pose the hypothetical question: what > would > > you do Garret, if your sister came to you and said she had had an abortion? > > I think i'd hug her and be there for her, physically, emotionally - if that is > > what she wanted. >> > > This reminds me of something I saw on TV a few years ago. Someone (Oprah, > maybe) was interviewing the nun who wrote or was part of the "Dead Man Walking" > story. (Sorry, never read the book or saw the movie, and I forget the nun's > name.) Anyway, the nun said that if Jesus were alive today he'd be more likely to > be found comforting women who were leaving abortion clinics rather than > harassing women who were going in to the clinics. > > --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:02:17 +0200 From: "Paul Mepschen" Subject: re: beat of black wings Suzanne wrote: "I am 53 single, never married because hypocrisy and illogic reign supreme" Well, I can think of other reasons why you never married, sister... By god,it's been a long time I've seen a post so full of ignorance and stupidity. For instance, what is this supposed to mean: "fighting for racial extinction while the rest continue to populate with no concern whatsoever". I'm afraid of the answer, but who is it exactly that you mean by 'the rest'? I don't care in what kind of world you wanne live in - but I don't wanne live in one where women feel the need to 'give' their men children -- we are well beyond such social relations, thank god. paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:21:15 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: a request Topics like the war, abortion, etc. are bound to elicit stong emotions and language on the list, and if I wished to avoid those topics, I would join the Joni-onlies, but may I please make a polite request that we not resort to name-calling and adhominem attack here? Basically, all I'm suggesting is that you think maybe one and a half times before you post about how your remarks might be perceived by the rest of us and by the person to whom you are responding. Thanks, Richard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:00:05 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: microsoft word njc, now stupid admissions And that puts her a notch above the jazz singers who only play voice, not that there's anything wrong with that. The CD credits ALL the piano to Diana, and there's some great solos. Neil Larsen contributes some Hammond organ, and his work is always great (he's done a lot of work with RLJ). Another little Joni note - Peter Erskine is one of the drummers on this album and he played with Joni on her latest too, both in the studio and on the road. One more "Girl In The Other Room" note: It was a brave move for her to tackle Chris Smither's "Love Me Like A Man" as Bonnie Raitt did such a killer version of it that it became hers. But while Bonnie's was blues/slide guitar based, Diana's is more piano/jazz based. Very nice. And it's funny to hear her voice every a melodic line that is obviously Costello-ish. Anyway, I've enjoyed this album a lot so far. The only bad thing is that I have the new Patti Smith too and that rocks and I have to choose! Bob NP: Son Volt, "Back Into Your World" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:12:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: microsoft word njc, now stupid admissions That is so funny Bob. The one and only time I bought tickets to a show I forgot all about also was for Gillian Welch. I did manage to remember in time to catch the second half of the show - but I had to stand in the back of the hall. So, given this very non-random sample of TWO, I think we have enough evidence to blame this on Gillian and not old age. Whadda ya say? Jenny SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: I had a ticket to see her Tuesday night and forgot all about it! I saw the ticket this morning on my dresser and had one of those "oh sh*t" moments. That's what I get for buying it so far in advance. Or maybe I'm just getting old, decrepit and senile like Lama. Bob NP: Son Volt, "Loose String" Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:03:10 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: microsoft word njc, now stupid admissions Lol! that's too funny:-)i mean, eh, not for you Bob. it has never happened to me (not yet!). maybe it says something about hte nature of her (wonderful, beautiful, chilling) music. I'm sure you missed a fantastic show if that's any consolatoin;-) She will be playing in London at the end of june (or maybe july, can't remember), i think i will be investing in a couple of tickets if the debit card allows it! I wasn't too pleased when i missed her concerts here not too long ago (of course, i didn't buy a ticket) GARRET np - Tom Waits, i hope that i don't fall in love with you Quoting Jenny Goodspeed : > That is so funny Bob. The one and only time I bought tickets to a show I > forgot all about also was for Gillian Welch. I did manage to remember in > time to catch the second half of the show - but I had to stand in the back of > the hall. > > So, given this very non-random sample of TWO, I think we have enough evidence > to blame this on Gillian and not old age. Whadda ya say? > > Jenny > > > SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > I had a ticket to see her Tuesday night and forgot all about > it! I saw the ticket this morning on my dresser and had one of > those "oh sh*t" moments. > That's what I get for buying it so far in advance. Or maybe > I'm just getting old, decrepit and senile like Lama. > > Bob > > NP: Son Volt, "Loose String" > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:43:14 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: loretta lynn - NJC anyone heard her new one? i think it came out yesterday or the day before. produced by jack white (yes, *that* jack white!). the 5 30-second clips i heard sound really spare and interesting..... http://www.lorettalynn.com/music/ cindy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:17:13 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: microsoft word njc, now stupid admissions Works for me! It's Gillian's fault that I had to Welch on the concert. It would have been great. I bought John Hiatt and Janis Ian tickets at the same time, so I'll put post-it notes all over the place. The only thing I'll add in my defense is that Tuesday was my son's last regular-season home baseball game (his surgery healed MUCH faster than expected, thanks to all who sent those prayers and thoughts) so they had "senior send-off" where the parents came out on the field and the coach talked about each kid, etc. So I didn't get home until 8 or so, and I was hungry and all that, and hell I just plum forgot! Of course, it would help if I had somebody to go with instead of always doing these things alone. Then they could remind me! Bob NP: Son Volt, "Live Free" Austin City, 11/14/96 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:23:31 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: loretta lynn - NJC Got mine on order--it's getting grest reviews. Any James McMurtry fans? He has a new live album out that I've also got on order. Apparently, ot really rocks. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Cynthia Vickery Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 11:43 AM To: SCJoniGuy@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: loretta lynn - NJC anyone heard her new one? i think it came out yesterday or the day before. produced by jack white (yes, *that* jack white!). the 5 30-second clips i heard sound really spare and interesting..... http://www.lorettalynn.com/music/ cindy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:24:03 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: loretta lynn - NJC It's really getting the press...BIG article in the latest No Depression mag about her and the new collaboration with Jack, who also plays guitar for her. The reviews are really off the charts. I've not been a fan but may have to check it out. And Joni, if you're listening...Loretta started before you, and as far as I can tell has prospered in the same slimy music biz that you did...and she's re-energized by writing new songs (and working with some fresh talent). If she can do it, you can too! Bob NP: Son Volt, "Tear Stained Eye" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:27:03 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Loretta Lynn - NJC > anyone heard her new one? i think it came out yesterday or the > day before. produced by jack white (yes, *that* jack white!). > the 5 30-second clips i heard sound really spare and > interesting..... > > http://www.lorettalynn.com/music/ > > > cindy > Getting RAVE reviews from everywhere. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:47:14 -0700 From: Greg Dexter Subject: Love Actually DVD Hey everybody, lots of Joni content on the bonus features on the new DVD of Love Actually. The director obviously appreciates Joni a lot and talks about the song on the feature about the sound track as well as a discussion on the movie commentary feature with Hugh Grant and others. Greg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 19:26:46 +0200 From: Claud9 Subject: LOGO CONTEST!!!!!!!!! Hi all you creative procrastinators ;-))) As far as I know, we are on the very slim side of submissions. We only have a few contributions so far and I thank those who have submitted their work. As you all know the dealine is MAY 3!!!!!!!! Yes, you have the entire weekend to still get something together. Then it will be time to vote.... Make yourself immortal and enter your inspirations for the most WONDERFUL logo for Jonifest 2004 to: logocontest@jmdl.com Please note: logo entries should not be sent to my address, but to Les9s (JMDL). Don9t miss this chance --Just imagine what all you can end up on! ;-) Claud ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:14:53 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: microsoft word njc, nowmuller's dotage Muller writes: << Of course, it would help if I had somebody to go with instead of always doing these things alone. >> This is so pathetic -- old AND alone. With all the nice things you do for people, Bob, wouldn't you think that someone might stop and say "hello in there" once in a while. :-( - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 19:46:26 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Rolling Stone I think there may be several reasons for the failure to include Joni in the Rolling Stone top 50. Firstly, the inclusion of Madonna (whose level of talent is so far below Joni's that it's barely worth pointing out) indicates that willingness to adapt oneself as an artist to current fleeting trends is a big factor in popularity. It has frequently been noted, and she herself has emphasised, that Joni refuses to fit in with contemporary musical vogue and prefers to follow her own muse. "It's the judgement of the moon and stars, your solitary path". Her doggedness in doing this - in the face of ridicule, accusations of fading talent, and, perhaps even more humiliating, complete lack of response to her efforts - should win her respect. However, the record-buying public is fickle and seems to need albums to fit into some comfortably recognisable category, or set of ideological concepts, in order to appreciate them. Madonna is just as popular now that she is 'living the American Life' as when she was the 'Material Girl'... as when she was 'Like A Virgin'... etc. Secondly, the inclusion of Janis Joplin (and other dead people) suggests to my suspicious mind that Joni will not be appreciated until after her death (God forbid, of course!). In the words of Jim Morrison: 'Death makes angels of us all, and gives us wings where we had shoulders, smooth as raven's claws'. The unconcluded nature of both Joni's career and her life story leave a lot of people somehow unable to define her. In this position, they feel safest simply ignoring her, dismissing her to the 'Where are they now?' file without bothering to find out. Thirdly, Joni has failed to conform in other ways apart from refusing to follow trends and refusing to die an early, dramatic, glamorous, life-defining death. She has refused to encourage obsessive media interest in her life, and we can't know anything about a person if the media don't tell us about her... right? She has also refused (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong) to have cosmetic surgery, propel the hideous image that women never grow old and never stop being sexy, simply start looking permanently stretched and surprised. I also wonder if the historical feud between Rolling Stone and Joni had anything to do with it... perhaps some massaging of the voting figures... or is that just horribly uncharitable? I don't know if I am just being vitriolic because it hurts me when Joni is dismissed in this way. Of course I don't think people should be FORCED to enjoy listening to something. But I do feel that when a cultural phenomenon like Joni Mitchell has been in existence for decades, constantly innovating and constantly influencing, some respect and some interest should maybe be paid... Love Kate C - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stay in touch better and keep protected online with MSNs NEW all-in-one Premium Services. Find out more here. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:53:01 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Bushworld PC NJC [was More about pro-choice (and war)] Lori Fye wrote: > > This makes me ask if Bush, et al, believe it's wrong to abort a "potential" life > but it's permissible to kill a life that is KNOWN to be full of potential?? We > mustn't allow the abortion of an 18 week old fetus, but it's okay to abort an > 18 year old man or woman? It's okay to kill 18 month old Iraqi children? Good questions. They would have easy answers in "Bushworld", as described recently by a liberal, often funny but always making serious points, columnist in the NYTimes: The Orwellian Olsens April 25, 2004 By MAUREEN DOWD It's their reality. We just live and die in it. In Bushworld, our troops go to war and get killed, but you never see the bodies coming home. In Bushworld, flag-draped remains of the fallen are important to revere and show the nation, but only in political ads hawking the president's leadership against terror. In Bushworld, we can create an exciting Iraqi democracy as long as it doesn't control its own military, pass any laws or have any power. In Bushworld, it's O.K. to run for re-election as the avenger of 9/11, even as you make secret deals with the Arab kingdom where most of the 9/11 hijackers came from. In Bushworld, you get to strut around like a tough military guy and paint your rival as a chicken hawk, even though he's the one who won medals in combat and was praised by his superior officers for fulfilling all his obligations. In Bushworld, you can reign as the antiterror president even after hearing an intelligence report about Al Qaeda's plans to attack America and then stepping outside to clear brush. In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq, even as they increasingly merge the two in America. In Bushworld, you can claim to be the environmental president on Earth Day while being the industry president every other day. In Bushworld, the C.I.A. says it can't find out whether there are W.M.D. in Iraq unless we invade on the grounds that there are W.M.D. In Bushworld, there's no irony that so many who did so much to avoid the Vietnam draft have now strained the military so much that lawmakers are talking about bringing back the draft. In Bushworld, we're making progress in the war on terror by fighting a war that creates terrorists. In Bushworld, you expound on remaking the Middle East and spreading pro-American sentiments even as you expand anti-American sentiments by ineptly occupying Iraq and unstintingly backing Ariel Sharon on West Bank settlements. In Bushworld, we went to war to give Iraq a democratic process, yet we disdain the democratic process that causes allies to pull out troops. In Bushworld, you list Bob Woodward's "Plan of Attack" as recommended reading on your campaign Web site, even though it makes you seem divorced from reality. That is, unless you live in Bushworld. Others at: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/25/opinion/25DOWD.html?ex=1084122156&ei=1&en=60422eb8b09975c7 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:59:36 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, patti smith and george w. bush There is an article on Patti Smith in the latest (4/28/04) issue of "le nouvel Observateur" (a French magazine, sorta like our "Newsweek"). It just crossed my desk and I look forward to reading it and learning more about her. A photo caption has a quote from her: "In "Radio Bagdad", I tried to express the powerless rage of an Iraqi mother the night when the Americans unleashed their deluge of fire." (loosely translated). If you like Patti Smith and can read French, you should check it out. (C'est toi, Catherine of Toronto, n'est-ce pas? And you know there may be more!) If you can't read French and really really want to read it, let me know and I'll translate it if there is enough interest. Don't hesiitate to ask -- the practice would be good for me and, as they say: "anything for the CAUSE!" The cover of this issue is very disturbing. It has photos of Bush and Sharon on it and reads: Ils font le jeu du terrorisme BUSH SHARON LES INCENDIAIRES Another article inside is titled: "George W, visionnaire aveugle" (translation: George W., blind visionary). As most of us here would agree, the French were right all along about this war being a trhs grande mistake. Vive la France! Peace, Patti (the newbie, not Smith) P.S. Lucy, your stories were so poignant and beautifully written! Thank you for sharing them here. Such LOVE your parents had for each other! _________________________________________________________________ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar  FREE! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:41:34 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Links njc >There are actually many mainstream published reports for years of links, connect the dots - between AQ and Iraq. I'll post them for you if you are interested.< Yes, please do. Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:07:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: LOGO CONTEST!!!!!!!!! is there a place online where the "constraints" are stated? Like how many colors may it use? Spot color only?? I guess I'm thinking no process printing..or? What sorts of items must the design be used on? Just a poster??or must it be adaptable to other stuff? I'm thinking I can't get it together for this, and it might be butt ugly anyway..but I'm interested in knowing the "requirements" re: color use and such. :) thx! Em - --- Claud9 wrote: > Hi all you creative procrastinators ;-))) > > As far as I know, we are on the very slim side of submissions. We > only have > a few contributions so far and I thank those who have submitted their > work. > As you all know the dealine is MAY 3!!!!!!!! Yes, you have the > entire > weekend to still get something together. > Then it will be time to vote.... > > Make yourself immortal and enter your inspirations for the most > WONDERFUL > logo for Jonifest 2004 to: logocontest@jmdl.com > Please note: logo entries should not be sent to my address, but to > Les9s > (JMDL). > > Don9t miss this chance --Just imagine what all you can end up on! ;-) > Claud ===== ........... "thats just the scale; the fish come later". ;) Norman Blake __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:32:13 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: 9/11 testimony njc Kakki>You have probably now seen the 9/11 testimony and documentation of the Gorelick/Reno "Wall" policy between the intelligence agenices. A legal interpretation and policy that by the legal term "quash" prevented intelligence from being shared towards effective purposes. "Attorney General John Ashcroft deliberately misled the 9/11 Commission and reduced the entire proceeding to political theater...his assertion that this memo created a "wall" between criminal and intelligence investigations within the FBI is grossly inaccurate. The staff of the commission said a day later that it was a "red herring," and in its Nov. 18, 2002, decision, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review directly contradicted Ashcroft's version of events... "The Court of Review argued that the requirement to have some separation between criminal and intelligence investigations grew out of a 1980 case, United States v. Truong Dinh, not a 1995 memo. The Court pointed to the Reagan or Bush I administrations for when the Truong requirement took hold in the Department of Justice... "Hiding behind this "wall," Ashcroft sought to deflect the attention of the commission from his dismal stewardship of domestic counterterrorism policy. In the spring and summer 2001, he downgraded counterterrorism as a priority, clashed with FBI Director Louis Freeh and Acting Director Thomas Pickard on counterterrorism policy, and cut counterterrorism funding, even denying a personal appeal from Pickard... "Ashcroft's smokescreen also obscured the obvious: he was the attorney general for eight months prior to Sept. 11 and did nothing to change what he now describes as "draconian" restrictions. Not only did fail to change them, but as Commissioner Slade Gorton (R) observed, on Aug. 6, 2001, Ashcroft's Justice Department issued its first guidance on information sharing which reads, "The 1995 procedures remain in effect today." More at: http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=46532 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 00:20:23 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: Beat of Black Wings njc From: "Suzanne MarcAurele" Subject: Beat of Black Wings Pro Choice is a curious attack on the smallest world population - yes I dare to say it - to say the least this is the single issue that makes us all look like total idiots - fighting for racial extinction while the rest continue to populate with no concern whatsoever - we want our men at home, safe from war, we just don't want to give them children? 2 children per family was already quite common by 1960 so what the hell is the protest anyway? I can understand not birthing children with birth defects that will isolate them for life - God knows I know how wonderfully liberal and blind people are to mine - I am 53 single, never married because hypocrisy and illogic reign supreme - but hey what the hell - flip the coin and be chic off line and politically correct whenever needed! S. Most of the responses to the above have stated they did not know what suzanne meant. if that is the case, why condemn. What are you condemning? I think this is the most intriguing part: I can understand not birthing children with birth defects that will isolate them for life - God knows I know how wonderfully liberal and blind people are to mine - I think the possibilty in these words is obvious and could have elecited compassion. It was howeevr ignored in favour of a slap for something no one admits to understanding. what a strange world we live in. Translation: why be nasty when you admit you don't know what was meant. and 2. did no one notice that last sentence? Is compassionate interest harder than a slap in the face? bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 19:26:26 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: colin powell name calling, njc ah well: >> well, we had the spectacle of kakki running around with her hair on fire >> because two entrants to moveon's commercial contest compared bush to >hitler. >> 'how evil the left wing is, supporting this behaviour.' > >Don't remember that quote from me at all. and i didn't quote you. but it accurately represents how you ranted about the moveon ads. and you definitely called us lefties hypocrites for not getting as overheated as you. >> when it was pointed out how much the right wing has done that, she denied >> it. a modest websearch turned up tons of examples, at which point she >said, >> with predictable kakkiness: ""I haven't heard, I don't recall, I wasn't >> aware, I missed them, as far as I'm aware" (thanks to the jmdler who >> reminded me of this consistent kakki-pattern.) > >What utter crap. The examples provided by Jerry were from the >early and mid >90s when I didn't even have a computer so how would I have read about them? were his examples really only from the early '90s? i don't remember that, i thought they were much more wide-ranging. other people posted examples, and there were many recent cites. it's very easy to find examples of both right and the left invoking hitler in any of the last 20 years. but you truly claimed that only the left did it. that's hypocritical. i also don't buy 'i didn't even have a computer' none of us did; you've been online longer than me. i read newspapers etc. and somehow through the '90s you managed to develop a rabid hatred of clinton, so you must have been reading something. however, 'I didn't even have a computer so how would I have read about them?' is a perfect example of the kakki-haiku: I haven't heard I don't recall I wasn't aware I missed them As far as I'm aware... I thought of >you the other day calling me a liar for saying intelligence was quashed >during the time of the Clinton administration. You have probably now seen >the 9/11 testimony and documentation of the Gorelick/Reno "Wall" policy >between the intelligence agenices. A legal interpretation and policy that >by the legal term "quash" prevented intelligence from being shared towards >effective purposes. But no apology or any kind of acknowledgement from >you - just another attack. i'm sorry, but clarifying and following a bipartisan legal interpretation that says intelligence officers can sometimes not share information with domestic criminal investigators is not 'quashing intelligence'. you made a very serious accusation that you have never backed up. i'm still calling you a liar. i just have to ask you bringing up the gorelick/reno policy. we're hearing about it because of john ashcroft's 9/11 testimony (he was the one who dramatically revealed gorelick's memo). did you dig in on the story or are you just on the republican national committee fax list? as kate has posted, the policy goes back to the beginning of the reagan administration, and continued through the beginning of bush ii. ashcroft's department even reaffirmed it. and now you're presenting gorelick memo as an example of clinton 'quashing' intelligence? >> oh by the way, it's been pointed out to me that limbaugh and o'reilly >> regularly refer to senator clinton as 'hitlery' aren't they nice? > >I haven't driven to work in 8 years so rarely, if ever, have a chance to >listen to "right-wing radio" and have not heard this from them. The larger >point is you trying to link me to them. Have I ever personally called >Hillary Clinton these names? Have I ever personally loaded the list with >links here to such name-calling of her? No. i don't think i've heard either of them, either; i only hear about the shit they say second-hand. both shows have transcripts. and i don't think i've tried to link them with you; i've just pointed out the harshness of right-wing speech, which you continue to deny. i find that hypocritical. but limbaugh and o'reilly, and hannity, and a bunch of other fox channel types, jumped on the gorelick/reno memo the day ashcroft brought it into the 9/11 hearings, just as you have. as if they'd all gotten the memo. i'm not linking you with them, but you are, by spouting the same propaganda. so don't blame me. patrick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:22:08 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: microsoft word njc, nowmuller's dotage **This is so pathetic -- old AND alone. ** Well, I'm enjoying the next best thing - living vicariously! http://www.sjhigh.org/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?id=1083187829 Bob NP: Patti Smith, "Gandhi" (this new one is as good as Gung Ho which I never would have believed!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:07:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: microsoft word njc --- Garret wrote: > On to MS word. Why does it keep telling me that my > grammar is wrong when i type > an essay or whatever? Sometimes it is right. > sometimes i am missing a > semicolon, sure, but really, is the passive voice so > bad? Why does it tell me > to use "which" and then when i change it tell me to > use "that" and then when i > change it tell me to use "which"? eh? > > Why oh why does it keep reconfiguring the > paragraphs? why does it *sometimes* > refuse to let me indent? sometimes it changes the > font type, size, and line > spacing of the previous paragraph when i hit return. > why is this? > > why does it *sometimes* automatically correct all my > (very many) hte and hwen > typos to the correct the and when, but tehn when i'm > tired and really would > appreciate this it stops doing it? > why does it automatically convert cingulate to > cingulated every time i type it > when cingulate is what i want? and yes word, i'm > certain of that! > GARRET LOL, Garret. I know *exactly* what you mean. One thing I'm pretty sure of is, if you have a lot of typos (in its opinion) in one document, it gives up after a while and just doesn't bother to correct them. As to the rest of it, it's quite simple: MS Word is from hell. Once you realize that, everything else falls into place. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:10:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: microsoft word njc, now stupid admissions --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > roll > > I had a ticket to see her Tuesday night and forgot > all about > it! I saw the ticket this morning on my dresser and > had one of > those "oh sh*t" moments. > That's what I get for buying it so far in advance. > Or maybe > I'm just getting old, decrepit and senile like Lama. > Bob! Even *I* wouldn't have done that - and I'm older than you! (I know this, because I'm older than almost anyone.) Give your head a shake! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:20:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Funny Diana Krall review from amazon vljc ....Yes, but did he like it? LOL. Here's a review I spotted on amazon.ca for Diana Krall's latest (among quite a few very positive reviews)- it goes to show you how tastes can vary and in such extreme ways. This one is at complete odds with what I've heard elsewhere. I know stuff like this pisses some people off, and I'm probably very evil to find this stuff funny, but I don't have a problem with people not liking things, and this guy is really quite funny about it! > Reviewer: paul duffy from phoenixville, pa United > States > Much to my own surprise, Krall has managed to plumb > new depths of tedious > preciousness that will cure even the most resilient > bouts of insomnia, and > has managed to do it not just on the massacre of > otherwise great songs, but > through her new found collaboration with her > self-absorbed mate. > Make no mistake about it, this is crap of the most > fetid odor. There are > other white Canadians quite capable of acquitting > themselves admirably in > jazz context who must be ready to jump off the sky > tower in TO every time > the BC Chanteusse sells a unit. To compare her to > Bill Evans is to insult > two countries, plus an entire tradition (or two). > Thank God no one has > invoked Oscar Peterson in the same breath as this > inspidly dull, my God how > overbearingly boring, ivory tinkler. > Where to begin to castigate this junk? Were I Chris > Smither or Tom Waits, > perhaps I'd sue for damages for her odious > renditions of "Love me like a > Man" (Think monotone Marie Osmond) and "Temptation" > (pity Oscar Wilde is no > longer with us, I think he'd opine on this cure). > Krall continues her > assault on Joni Mitchell with as life draining a > cover of "Black Crow" as > you'll ever hear. Krall must have ambitions to be a > chartered accountant. > And as painfully monotonous as these covers are, > they positively radiate > with passionate heat compared to her work with the > collaborations with EC. > Aul' Declan can't seem to get the focus on much of > this stuff, like trying > to draw a bead on a target after knocking down a > bottle of quaaludes. > "Changed my Address" seems to be about literally > changing an address and the > closing of a club Krall played in (who cares?), and > succeeds at drawing no > emotion from the listener about either scenario. > "Almost Blue" is almost > dead on arrival. "Girl in the Other Room," well, may > blessings rain down > upon their love, but I'd just as soon brick both of > them in until they get > how to write and convey a song. > In a career that inspires paint to dry at an > excrutiatingly slow pace, Krall > has reset the bar lower with this release. If you > are a fan of this tripe, > my heart bleeds for you. --. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #198 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)