From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #187 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, April 23 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 187 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_pro-whatever_-_njc?= ["mike pritchard" ] No fags, NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] : Re: now languid, listless, limp Americans -- NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: Re: now languid, listless, limp Americans -- NJC ["tantra-apso" ] Re: Re: now languid, listless, limp Americans -- NJC [Em ] Re: : Re: now languid, listless, limp Americans - now including useless item catalogues- NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: Smug Americans, NJC - now short [Jerry Notaro ] NP - njc [AsharaJM@aol.com] war over, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: limp Americans, useless item catalogues, and now: writing for the tabloids NJC ["Cynthia Vickery" ] RE: (NJC) pro-whatever [ReckersL@ebrd.com] Re: (NJC) pro-whatever [Jerry Notaro ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:39:04 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_pro-whatever_-_njc?= >>patrick, angry and probably incendiary<< I don't mind people being angry or incendiary when they are able to argue with as much passion, logic, humanity and common sense as you did, Patrick, in your post. Well said. mike in barcelona NP Pentangle - Willy of Winsbury (for Ashara;-)) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:35:15 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: NJC -- was Jimmy Carter, now the dead at Dover It's 4:35 am and I just got home from work. Can't go to bed without reading a little JMDL mail, though, and this caught my eye: Cindy wrote > I saw today that there are 596 less Iraqi "insurgents" (read: human beings) > out there since 04/01/04. Anyone who can't see the parallels to Vietnam after hearing about these BODY COUNTS is just kidding themselves. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:18:47 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: Result njc I went to see stuart today as my usual dr is away. You know, I always remeber him as being very good looking. Today i relaised he isn't. Just ordianry but he is very kind and gentle and nice. Anyway, I now have an ecg thing strapped to me for the next few days. Quite a result. I would have ahd to wait 6-8weeks for the hospital to do this but Stuart just happened to have one! I told him I was feeling about not smoking-I had one at 12.30am last night. i felt ready to kill someone. He told me NOT to stop until they know what this is. he reckons the stress could induce a heart attack! Not sure what i think about that but am not going back to smoking as if I am not stopping. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:58:53 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: No fags, NJC COLIN....WELL DONE WELLL DONE WELL DONE.... the anger, pain and feelings of being lost beyond words will gradually ease...The urges to strangle small children, the longing to get an AK47 and anihilate the people in front of you in a queue,the extreme bent towards road rage, the rising feeling of total and inexplicable hunger, the feeling of wanting to mash your fist in the face of people who are "having a fag" , will all subside into a gentle and continuous state of empty anger and simmering loss... Well done. I can happily say that 3 monthsand 10 days, down the line I feel better for this final, consciously made decision to quit smoking . It has been hard,but it remains a choice am proud to have made, something I should have done ages ago, and definitely worth while continuing with. The adverts showing the people smoking; their fags dropping artery clogging slime instead of ash, helped me big time.... It was a powerful campaign and everytime I think about "oh just one" I remember the slime....and it truly turns my stomach Keep at it hun and call me for support if you need it.... Right there with you. And good luck to Chris Marshall (too) who said, the other day, he was (thinking of?) giving up too as of yesterday (well ....trying to) and I think Stryngs was included in that.... I shall never hate smokers or smoking.. you all know from Fest how much I enjoy a ciggie, and will always feel a little bit excluded from the happy group on the porch.. but I am me, I am not my ciggies, I am Lulu,your queen, and with Fresh breath confidence too!!!! Colins' post is below. Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:28:26 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: njc Joni is just an old whinge bag. Most of the people on this list are even worse. in fact ALL of the people on this list are worse. I think we should just nuke every bastard and get it over with. And before you rush to reply and tell me how evil I am, i just don't give a fuck. TWO, yes TWO, days without a fag. The first in 30 years. It's easy. i am FINE. Just FINE. It's easy. Now where is that damn button.... bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:44:48 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: : Re: now languid, listless, limp Americans -- NJC This thread between Murph and Colin is making me smile soooo much Subject: Re: now languid, listless, limp Americans -- NJC > Colin asks: > > << have you not leanred about self love? >> > Murph replied.......> > I know about it, Colin. I've even tried it. I just don't think I am very good > at it. COLIN responded... you must not be doing it right. I am sure you can find a film on the net to give you some tips. Or maybe someone will offer a helpoing hand.... bw colin LULU NOW What you need Smuprh are "HELPING HANDS". These seem to be available in most good hardware shops and seem to be sort of large orange plastic clamps (with tough action spring jaws)! You screw them to the table, you insert and FIRMLY CLAMP the thing that needs holding .... It will hold that while you fiddle with it. Then you unclamp the item and put the "helping hands" away until the next time you need them.... there you are. get some of them then you can practise what you need to practise until you are really good at it.... It may be a good idea to get some Arnica for the bruising..... Lulu XXX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:44:49 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: No fags, NJC bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lucy Hone To: Smurfycopy@aol.com ; joni@smoe.org ; tantra-apso Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 7:58 AM Subject: No fags, NJC COLIN....WELL DONE WELLL DONE WELL DONE.... the anger, pain and feelings of being lost beyond words will gradually ease...The urges to strangle small children, the longing to get an AK47 and anihilate the people in front of you in a queue,the extreme bent towards road rage, the rising feeling of total and inexplicable hunger, the feeling of wanting to mash your fist in the face of people who are "having a fag" , will all subside into a gentle and continuous state of empty anger and simmering loss... so how do you deal with that? I was fine for almost 48 hrs and then felt as you described above. It frightened me big time. I cam very close to hitting somone in my car because they ahd the audacity to be moving across the road too slowly. When i eventually went to the garage to get some baccy, i very nearly smashed my brand new car into the wall of the car wash. I left th car running and door open as I wnet into get my drug. thank god there was no queue. As soon as i ahd it, I felt stupid but calm. I expected to feel hungry but no, irrated yes but i was not expecting full blown rage and almost panic. The really annoying thing is I ahrdly smoke anything. I smoke the equiv of 4 fags a day, at most. I go for hours without if I ma busy or am somewhere I can't. I am ashamed of it now. reminds me of my anorexic days. the shame of it. I hate doing it(just as I hated purging), i hate being tied to it-the mess it makes, having to make sure i have them with me, the stopping the car tp roll one, the mess it makes, and most of all knowing how it is not good for my already diseased heart. I am well aware i could still live to 90 even with my heart probs but dobut if if smoke and could get somehting worse. I started smoking at 15 because I wanted 'to belong'. Lack of self worht is a killer. If only I felt then how i feel now about myself. I would not have started. but i did and that is that. I have given up other drugs, (valium withdrawal is hell on earth) but this is different and feels worse but in a diffrent way. I felt really good and was please dthat i felt only the slightest discomfort-till I found myself sweating and heart pumping and just wanting to explode. it came on suddenly. It felt like every bit of anger i ahd ever felt, every hurt, every slight, all the abuse, everything was encapsualted into one almighty feeling that terrified me. Maybe fags have been the only reason i didn't turn into a cereal killer. I don't feel good about this. i feel stupid ashamed, and desperately worried that i am only a fag away from being an all out psycho. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:46:05 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: Re: now languid, listless, limp Americans -- NJC > LULU NOW > > What you need Smuprh are "HELPING HANDS". These seem to be available in most > good hardware shops and seem to be sort of large orange plastic clamps (with > tough action spring jaws)! You screw them to the table, you insert and FIRMLY > CLAMP the thing that needs holding .... It will hold that while you fiddle > with it. Then you unclamp the item and put the "helping hands" away until the > next time you need them.... there you are. get some of them then you can > practise what you need to practise until you are really good at it.... It may > be a good idea to get some Arnica for the bruising..... the above instructions from Lulu, our resident S&M queen...... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:53:10 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: No fags, NJC Queen Lulu! I was shocked when I read your post's subject line. ("Subject" line! LOL, no pun intended, Your Very, Very Highness, although I do consider myself one of your most loyal subjects.) By "No fags" I thought you we instituting a new policy in your kingdom, like something I might expect Disney to do in their Magic Kingdom! Although we all support Colin's decision to quit, I know you'll agree that -- with his latest post -- it's important for him to follow his doc's advice right now. But what good news about Chris and Stryngs. Maybe we can start a JMDL smoking cessation movement that will eventually lead to Joni quitting. Wouldn't that be wonderful? Not just for the health benefits she'd receive, but for those precious first few weeks when she could really let her anger flow and give those music company execs a no-holds-barred piece of her nicotine-deprived mind! Lucy writes: << I shall never hate smokers or smoking.. you all know from Fest how much I enjoy a ciggie, and will always feel a little bit excluded from the happy group on the porch.. but I am me, I am not my ciggies >> I agree. I haven't really felt the need to proselytize, per se, but I do want to spread the word to anyone who might be thinking of quitting: You CAN do it. I was the worst nico addict and I am doing it. I have gone through all kinds of emotional upheavals over the last 4-and-a-half months and I still haven't smoked. Sometimes smoking is all I can think about, but more and more the thought of it, the sight and smell of it, just seems, well . . . odd! - --Smurf NPIMH: The Air That I Breathe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:58:41 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: : Re: now languid, listless, limp Americans -- NJC Queen Lulu, the JMDL's very own agony aunt, writes: << What you need Smuprh are "HELPING HANDS" >> If any post has ever made me laugh louder, I can't remember what it was. (Sorry about the visuals, folks!) What a great way to begin yet another wet and dreary spring day -- with tears of shreiking laughter. I am sure the neighbors are thinking it has something to do with that man at #15 giving up smoking. XO, - --Smurf, laughing himself bluer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:03:57 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Smug NJC Les Neumann says "My European friends laugh at me. They're paying alot more- they say we've got to stop guzzling. of course they live in postage stamp sized countries with alot better public transportation." You do have to stop guzzling, we all do... But as for better public transportation you have to be joking. IN towns you will find bus routes but in villages some buses run once a day or maybe twice a week... TRAINS, you say, take the train.....Ummmmm do you have access to silly amounts of cash? I wonder what you might think we pay for a train ticked to go from Portsmouth, via London up to Leeds ( Yorkshire).. up one day, back the next. Total journey time about 6 hours.... YOu can drive it in about 5. Well you could if the roads were clear of traffic. ANY WAY... if you phone up and need to get to LEeds from Portsmouth and you cannot drive and its an emergency and you have not been able to book 3 weeks in advance and get the super saver ticket. it will cost you #170.... that is a whopping amount...it is about $300. MAD MAD prices and they wonder why we dont use the trains.... If I want to get up to London for a day and I need to be there for 9 am I have to buy a standard day return which is #42.. about $70...If I can get there after 10.30 then I can buy a cheap day return for #24.... If I take my car to central London I will have to pay a #5 congestion charge for going to central London and about #48 in parking in Central London.So that is #53 before anything else. I do feel that the US in some ways lives in a bit of a bubble about fuel costs. But its not just the money it is the ruination of this planet..... there needs to be found a clean convenient way of moving people about or ways that jobs that have traditionally been done in offices being done from home with modern communication systems allowing everyone to network from home stations rather than commute. I work from home submitting my work that needs to be done on the computer via e-mail. Just how much do we need to be in an office? But then there is so much employment in the petro chemical industry world wide,,, what would happen to all those people? and all the knock on effects on other industries? Thorny question.......... but one thing is certain that is ....that if the world needed to find less oil to consume perhaps we would not go looking to other countries to supply it, or go raiding them to smash and grab.... Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:06:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Re: now languid, listless, limp Americans -- NJC Did you all ever see that first PeeWee's playhouse Special? Where Jombie the Genie (who I luv, btw) was sooooooo happy to receive "hands" in the mail?? Wonder whay he was so happy to get "hands"? Wonder what he rushed off to "do" with his hands??? :P Em - --- tantra-apso wrote: > > LULU NOW > > > > What you need Smuprh are "HELPING HANDS". These seem to be > available in > most > > good hardware shops and seem to be sort of large orange plastic > clamps > (with > > tough action spring jaws)! You screw them to the table, you insert > and > FIRMLY > > CLAMP the thing that needs holding .... It will hold that while you > fiddle > > with it. Then you unclamp the item and put the "helping hands" away > until > the > > next time you need them.... there you are. get some of them then > you can > > practise what you need to practise until you are really good at > it.... It > may > > be a good idea to get some Arnica for the bruising..... > > > the above instructions from Lulu, our resident S&M queen...... ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:27:49 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Re: No fags, NJC Colin.... (see colins post below the snippet of mine) ..... giving up is something you are doing for your own good. YOu have a health thing to consider and it is a good thing you are doing.... I find that there are triggers to my desire to smoke..Friday evenings WERE, and note the WERE... a time of high stress for me. THE FRIDAY... NIGHT END OF WORKING WEEK FAG was may be THE ONE... I still feel a sense of loss (today is Friday and I would have normally written this post with a fag on the go...) I have had to identify the smoking that was purely unconscious and the ones that were purposeful. Computer fags, phone fags, driving fags were the unconscious ones so were watching TV fags, reading the paper and reading books fags. I realised I could not under any circumstance recall how many I had smoked in those situations. Purposeful ones were the ones that I had at the end of an evening meal, or after the working day with a glass of wine. Writing this is bringing on a desire to smoke... HOWEVER.... I was told by a mate of mine that when you have the urge to smoke what you need to do is to immitate the breathing that goes with smoking as more than the nicotine and the various chemicals that go with the fag (that we assume bring on the feeling of relaxation) it is the breathing pattern that the brain recognises as the onset of something we consider pleasurable.... SO... My advice is when you feel that you need to smoke (even if it is only 4 a day) immitate the breathing. use a pen, or pencil or dummy ciggy to enable the act to feel authentic and it really does work. You also have to remember, and I thank my doctor for this, that giving up nicotine is as hard as giving up heroin. Your body will go into heart flutters, and bumps and you may have numbness in your hands, and your mouth may start to feel odd. There are also things like water retention (the body is used to having a diuretic in it) and cannot manage to expel everything that is has. People who have never smoked seem to think that smoking is about image. For me it was about time out, about thinking, about all the things that allowed me to step back from (or take part in) group activities. Now adays I really enjoy a clean mouth and breath, I am starting to control the weight surge (mainly water) I am really enjoying the feel of having money in my purse, I am not panic stricken to discover I have no fags at 11pm on a wet night.. I do not have to feel responsible for any one else's discomfort... It is interesting (though) that only now I am starting to get back my sense of smell. Just daily it is starting to improve ......and I have to say my dog smells disgusting and had to have a bath last night. There are various things I am noticing about outside smells and about all sorts of food that I ate but do not like the smell of at the moment.. Sense of taste is also returning and that is good... I am more satisfied by less in the last week or so..... SO Colin just keep on going but in your own good time. I know you have the heart issues to consider. Maybe you are not ready. Why not roll your 4 cigs with 3/4 the tobacco then you are losing one fag a day.... then reduce that again over a period of time. Give up badly and you will fail, be well prepared and make yourself promises as to what you will give yourself in return (CD's?) and it won't feel so bad.... WEll done you and we are here for helping love and hugs Lucy ----- Original Message ----- From: Lucy Hone To: Smurfycopy@aol.com ; joni@smoe.org ; tantra-apso Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 7:58 AM Subject: No fags, NJC COLIN....WELL DONE WELLL DONE WELL DONE.... the anger, pain and feelings of being lost beyond words will gradually ease...The urges to strangle small children, the longing to get an AK47 and anihilate the people in front of you in a queue,the extreme bent towards road rage, the rising feeling of total and inexplicable hunger, the feeling of wanting to mash your fist in the face of people who are "having a fag" , will all subside into a gentle and continuous state of empty anger and simmering loss... so how do you deal with that? I was fine for almost 48 hrs and then felt as you described above. It frightened me big time. I cam very close to hitting somone in my car because they ahd the audacity to be moving across the road too slowly. When i eventually went to the garage to get some baccy, i very nearly smashed my brand new car into the wall of the car wash. I left th car running and door open as I wnet into get my drug. thank god there was no queue. As soon as i ahd it, I felt stupid but calm. I expected to feel hungry but no, irrated yes but i was not expecting full blown rage and almost panic. The really annoying thing is I ahrdly smoke anything. I smoke the equiv of 4 fags a day, at most. I go for hours without if I ma busy or am somewhere I can't. I am ashamed of it now. reminds me of my anorexic days. the shame of it. I hate doing it(just as I hated purging), i hate being tied to it-the mess it makes, having to make sure i have them with me, the stopping the car tp roll one, the mess it makes, and most of all knowing how it is not good for my already diseased heart. I am well aware i could still live to 90 even with my heart probs but dobut if if smoke and could get somehting worse. I started smoking at 15 because I wanted 'to belong'. Lack of self worht is a killer. If only I felt then how i feel now about myself. I would not have started. but i did and that is that. I have given up other drugs, (valium withdrawal is hell on earth) but this is different and feels worse but in a diffrent way. I felt really good and was please dthat i felt only the slightest discomfort-till I found myself sweating and heart pumping and just wanting to explode. it came on suddenly. It felt like every bit of anger i ahd ever felt, every hurt, every slight, all the abuse, everything was encapsualted into one almighty feeling that terrified me. Maybe fags have been the only reason i didn't turn into a cereal killer. I don't feel good about this. i feel stupid ashamed, and desperately worried that i am only a fag away from being an all out psycho. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:44:11 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Re: : Re: now languid, listless, limp Americans - now including useless item catalogues- NJC Ah Smurph (see his post below) glad to think I made you laugh loud enough to disconcert the neighbours... It is one of the things I love about this list. There we all are, maybe alone in our rooms around the world, or at desks at work, and we read something that maybe no one else would understand or even want to know about, and it makes us roar with laughter.... The other piece of equipment I thought might have been useful was one of those "stretch grab" devices for getting things at a distance.....With an extending scissor action and handy non slip gripping tong ends!!! could have been a useful addition to the clamps for your deficiency!!!. Am I the only person who finds the catalogues that these things are sold from a total delight of advertising copy. The uses they come up with for all sorts of stuff.. Worse still the catalogues are met with a whoop of glee because you know that there will be something to amuse.. Sending off a name and address of someone you dislike to catalogues like this is a wonderful revenge!!!! Here are some of my faves (from memory so may not be totally correct) "Scare birds off your plants with PAKKA-CAT.. Yes, a cast iron cat with lifelike scary eyes. Comes in a pack of 4" and "Travel potti with female attachement" Oh that was priceless. What about "Too big for your trousers? then try Magic Button handi-loops..YES, wear those trousers that were too tight, save ##### on tailoring bills.. insert Handi-loop to existing trouser button on the waist and gain inches of useful girth" So you end up with all these fat men with trousers that are held up with tensile steel loops and buttons and their fly openings cannot be zipped up because they are all too fat and that is why they cannot wear the trousers anyway.... Any one have any favourites? I always thought I would like a job writing ad copy for something like this... Any one got any gems Lucy - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 1:58 PM Subject: Re: : Re: now languid, listless, limp Americans -- NJC > Queen Lulu, the JMDL's very own agony aunt, writes: > > << What you need Smuprh are "HELPING HANDS" >> > > If any post has ever made me laugh louder, I can't remember what it was. > (Sorry about the visuals, folks!) What a great way to begin yet another wet and > dreary spring day -- with tears of shreiking laughter. I am sure the neighbors > are thinking it has something to do with that man at #15 giving up smoking. > > XO, > > --Smurf, laughing himself bluer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:42:17 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Smug Americans, NJC - now short I have no idea where you get your information, but it is conjecture, not fact. The VAST majority of doctors in this country, well over 90% do NOT perform abortions. The lobbying for a woman's right to choice does NOT come from the AMA, or any other medical organization, but from women's rights groups such as NOW. Jerry > > Legislation which is commonly refered to as "prochoice" in the USA > guarantees physicians the right include abortion procedures legally in their > practices. Doctors who perform abortions are very determined to keep > legislation > in their favor accordingly. Politicians have stated that they do not want to > take away these rights of doctors. Prochoice then becomes not so much about > offering choices to women as about offering rights to doctors. I hope that > clarifies it for you Colin. > > Love, > Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:51:39 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: NP - njc Mike wrote: <> This put a HUGE smile on my face this rainy morning, Mike! This is one of my absolute favorite songs! I used to sing/play this all the time when I was doing the coffee house circuit in the 70's. Great Big Sea just came out with a very interesting version called "John Barbour" in their newest release, "Something Beautiful." It's really different from all the versions I've ever heard. For those of you that haven't heard Great Big Sea, I highly encourage you to check them out. Here's what they say about it: This is a Newfoundland version of the Childe ballad bWillie ObWinsburyb, one of the oldest ballads in the English language. It was compiled from a version found in the bCome And I Will Sing Youb collection, as well as several other sources. This Newfoundland variant changes the usual lords and ladies for a sea captain and his sailor. In most versions, the hero turns out to be a lord in his own right, who has disguised himself as a servant. We prefer the spirit of John Barbour, who rejects the Captainbs offer of land in favour of the freedom of the open water. Hugs, Ashara, lovin' this list, who not only has heard of the obsure music I love, but actually plays it too!!! :-D ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:57:40 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: war over, njc Bob said: >And we're now approaching the 1-year anniversary (May 1) of when Bush said >"Mission Accomplished", and celebrating the >end of the major fighting. Sheesh, I'd rather have a box of >tic-tacs: This infuriates me. Bush stands up and "smugly" announces the war is over last May, when it is clearly n o t . . . like he's got the ticket on some mind control thing. . . and the American public believes him? Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:14:41 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: limp Americans, useless item catalogues, and now: writing for the tabloids NJC lucy disclosed her professional desire, to wit: <> oh lucy... my dream job is so closely linked to this! i'd LOVE LOVE to write for the those supermarket checkout-stand tabloids. here in the states, my favorite is the Weekly World News. (and who knew you could read this journalistic treasure-trove online, too! what a happy day this is! http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/) how fabulous would it be to sit at a desk for the whole of your workday and get PAID to write stories like: "Female Bigfoot admits: 'I'm having The Pope's baby!'" "Woman gored to death in restroom by 2,000 pound bull!" "Hillary Clinton adopts alien baby!" "Gal uses dead husband's ashes for breast implant!" what a job! cindy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:14:40 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: No fags, NJC Colin wrote: <> Colin, if you ever decide to kill cereal, please don't hurt granola, OK? ;-) Just kidding, darlin'. You know I love you. Keep up with the non-smoking. It *does* get easier over time. Keeping good thoughts coming your way. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:17:42 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: limp Americans, useless item catalogues, and now: writing for the tabloids NJC Cindy writes: << who knew you could read this journalistic treasure-trove online, too! what a happy day this is! http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/ >> I had no idea! Consider it bookmarked. Thanks, Cindy. Although one of today's WWN headlines doesn't look too unbelievable: "OIL DISCOVERED IN CUBA! U.S. troops poised to liberate island nation!" - --Smurf, signing off for today . . . I think! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:21:24 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: limp Americans, useless item catalogues, and now: writing for the tabloids NJC Cindy..you forgot this one...150 pound baby born to Ethiopian woman. Bree NP. Shannon ... Henri Gross >From: "Cynthia Vickery" >Reply-To: "Cynthia Vickery" >To: "Lucy Hone" >CC: joni@smoe.org, Smurfycopy@aol.com, "tantra-apso" > >Subject: Re: limp Americans, useless item catalogues, and now: writing >for the tabloids NJC >Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:14:41 -0500 > >lucy disclosed her professional desire, to wit: > ><something like this... >> > >oh lucy... >my dream job is so closely linked to this! >i'd LOVE LOVE to write for the those supermarket checkout-stand >tabloids. here in the states, my favorite is the Weekly World >News. (and who knew you could read this journalistic >treasure-trove online, too! what a happy day this is! >http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/) >how fabulous would it be to sit at a desk for the whole of your >workday and get PAID to write stories like: >"Female Bigfoot admits: 'I'm having The Pope's baby!'" >"Woman gored to death in restroom by 2,000 pound bull!" >"Hillary Clinton adopts alien baby!" >"Gal uses dead husband's ashes for breast implant!" > >what a job! > >cindy _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:23:42 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: oops - My Piano Songs pt 2 - NJC Very nice, Owen! I really enjoyed them. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:30:58 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: limp =?ISO-8859-1?B?oEFtZXJpY2FucywgdXNlbGVzcyBpdGVtIGNhdGFsb2d1ZXMsIGFuZCB ub3c6IHdyaXRpbmdmb3IgdGhlIHRhYmxvaWRzIE5KQw==?= The Weekly World News totally rocks. If I could only choose ONE media source, it would be the WWN. Plus, they always have at least one bikini-clad babe per issue! My fave WWN headlines include: "Hermaphrodite Rapes Self!" "Man Finds Mermaid In Tuna Sandwich" It HAS to be true - who could make the sh*t up? Bob NP: Fred Simon, "Here, There And Everywhere" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:42:22 +0100 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: I think I found a new Joni cover! About 2 months ago, I was walking along the southern riverfront (Thames, in London) towards the Tate Modern, when I heard music that I first thought came from a radio or CD player. I then saw it was a guy playing live out on the street for money, with an amplified guitar and mike. He sounded so good, so professional, and he looked like just a kid, very fragile, from a distance. (When I got closer I realised he was not a teenager any more, probably more like in his mid or late thirties.) I was really moved by the quality of his sound in the cold air. He sang David Gray songs, and James Taylor, I felt mesmerised and stayed to listen for maybe 10 songs, until my dog got too impatient standing still. Then I bought the CD that he was selling, I felt I owed it to him for the unexpected joy he had given me. To my delight I saw it contained a Joni cover: The Circle Game - that was a real bonus! In fact, coming home and playing the CD was a bit of a disappointment. It is properly recorded, and he still sings and plays well, but to me it does not capture the magic of that open air performance, it all sounds a bit flat and ordinary. Anyway, I know my duty! A cover has to be reported to the Covers King. So here goes. Oh yes, his name is Julian Davies. Covers Bob, please let me know how you prefer to do this. I can either copy the whole CD and send it to you, or I can send you this CD and you send it back to me - whatever you prefer. But I am not techie enough to send you just the one song on a CD. Anyway, I am glad I have been able to make my own real contribution. If you tell me you already have it, I will ... WELL I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WILL DO!!! Lieve in London. ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:22:22 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC Re: limp =?ISO-8859-1?B?oA==?=Americans, useless item catalogues, > The Weekly World News totally rocks. If I could only choose > ONE media source, it would be the WWN. Plus, they always have > at least one bikini-clad babe per issue! My fave WWN headlines > include: > > "Hermaphrodite Rapes Self!" > "Man Finds Mermaid In Tuna Sandwich" And who can forget BATBOY!!!!!!! > > It HAS to be true - who could make the sh*t up? > > Bob > > NP: Fred Simon, "Here, There And Everywhere" > Love this. A real gem. Anyone who get Fred's Songs of my Youth will cherish it. Jerry np: Ulali - Going Home ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:27:35 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: I think I found a new Joni cover! Hi Lieve, and thanks!! First & foremost I need to tell you that your discovery was heretofore unknown to me, so...good detective work! When I googled "Julian Davies" I came up with a JMDL member, so I'm assuming that Julian is one of us! Julian, is this your recording of "Circle Game"? Come out come out, wherever you are... Bob NP: Paul Simon, "Spirit Voices" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:36:32 +0100 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: (NJC) pro-whatever I am copying further down (below the dotted line) a piece from Patrick's post (with a few words dotted out, only to avoid problems with our IT systems at work!) which reflects very much my own opinion. However much I am aware of our male dominated culture and the way that our laws and social habits are often grounded by male dominance and the male urge to protect their offspring and their property (which includes wives), I cannot accept this attitude which automatically sees everything as a male conspiracy. No, I do not believe that abortion laws are there for the benefit of male doctors, and that most women know how to perform successful abortions themselves. Codswallop. BUT BUT BUT BUT.... (and please read the above paragraph as it was intended: as a brief generalised introduction, to put what follows into perspective) I really really have problems with abortion. Not for any religious belief. Just for one simple fact: after a certain number of weeks, a baby (call it foetus) in the womb is just as much a baby as one that's just come out after 9 months. I have posted this before, because I think it is the one thing that most pro-choice people try to ignore. Everything is seen in black and white: some people say "life is holy" and defend it religeously from conception, other say "it is the woman's body, she can do what she wants" and they tend to resist any real time limit. I am glad Patrick said abortion should only happen in the first few weeks. Yes, in that case, I fully agree. Not that abortion in those cases is just a piece of cake, but it is probably the best solution to a sorry situation, certainly if adoption has been properly explored and those services are available. But I think a lot of pro-lifers really shy away from that issue. They are so gun-ho on the "the woman has the only say" principle, that they don't want to deal with difficult issues. I have mentioned this to some guys who said "Gosh, I always thought I had no right to have an opinion on the matter", and were quite confused when I said that I thought that a foetus of 6 or 7 months should have some rights, should have people, male or female, speaking out for it... I can only sum it up like this, as I know I have done on this list before. The argument that a foetus is not a baby, that abortion is not murder, is normally supported by the argument that "The foetus is not yet viable outside the woman's body, so she can decide" - and I think that is not a strong enough argument, because you can just as easily say: "A newborn baby cannot survive without the mother's milk or someone to keep it warm and fed" so it's OK to withdraw the food and shelter and let it helplessly die somewhere... I know, if you want to go to the other extreme, you end up with all the misery Patrick mentioned, and that's not what I want to say. That is why I think abortion is messy and morally very ambiguous. I know many women who have had abortions, I might easily have been in the situation too, so I am not trying to condemn easily, but I am just saying: let's face the harsh facts, let's not hide completely behind "the woman's choice", let's face that in fact yes a baby is being killed, and so let's keep it as a very very last option, one that should be done very early, when the foetus is only just a blob, or for very clear medical reasons. I know, I really do know that now a number of abortions are whims. For instance, a couple argues, the woman has an abortion to hurt the man. This happens, and I don't think it's justified. Another example. I know of a couple where the woman could not commit to leave her husband and move in with her lover. She said to her lover: "Maybe if I were pregnant from you, the circumstances would force me to leave him" and so they went for it and she got pregnant, but kept postponing to tell the husband because she still could not make up her mind, and in the end she did tell the husband and went to an abortion clinic 3 times without being able to make up her mind, and in the end, when she was 5 months, she finally went through with the abortion. A few days later she and her lover were both crying over the loss of their baby. They even now blame the abortion clinic for not having questioned the woman's decision more thoroughly! This story still makes me sick when I think of it. It should not have been allowed, but it was. They played with "making a baby" to help them sort out a dilemma, and the abortion happened on a whim, did not even sort out anything... Those are the messy aspects that people don't like to face. This is why I am uncomfortable to just say that it's a woman's choice, always and absolutely. We need to face the ugliness, even if it makes it less easy to shout slogans. I am still in favour of abortion, but within much stricter limits. I don't proudly claim it as a right. Nor would I be proud of a grandmother who aborted 4 times. Lieve in London - with the sun shining outside and almost time to go home, yes! Have a great weekend everybody. - ---- Patrick wrote: i just can't believe you are suggesting that the pro-choice movement is driven by any doctors (mostly men, you say) who WANT to perform abortions. that is a really f... harsh accusation. i find it psychologically scary that you would say such a thing. dr. laura, you keep on hinting on some magical leprochaun cure for pregnancy that your grandmother had, but i don't believe it's real world. to the extent that male doctors are pro-abortion rights (and the few who are, are quite old now), it's because they saw the horrible consequences of back-alley abortions before roe v. wade. those girls somehow didn't get the memo from your grandma. they got pregnant in the '60s, '50s and earlier, and terrified of the societal consequences of unwanted pregnancy, did brutal things to themselves, with hangers and clorox and shit, and often died of it. that created a lot of abortion-rights activists among those poor doctors who had to clean up. those guys are mostly older now, less than one tenth of the pro-choice movement. and these few devout pro-choicers do not deserve your slander. wanting to do abortions, what a f... awful accusation. you didn't even guess at the reasons why the rest of us (the 99% of us who aren't doctors who practiced medicine in the '60s) might be pro-choice. we're concerned about control of our own bodies. for women, it's reproductive control, of course, including the choice to NOT INITIATE PREGNANCY (which also under attack from pro-lifers). as for us gays, they'd rather we just didn't do it. ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:55:42 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: (NJC) pro-whatever Just for one simple fact: after a certain > number of weeks, a baby (call it foetus) in the womb is just as much a baby > as one that's just come out after 9 months. I have posted this before, > because I think it is the one thing that most pro-choice people try to > ignore. Please don't assume this Lieve. In my case, it is just that I don't agree with your statement as one of fact. Jerry P.S. Happy Birthday!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:09:43 +0100 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: RE: (NJC) pro-whatever Thanks Jerry! I wish I could see it that way too, it would make it so much easier. And I could claim a woman's prerogative for having been pregnant and knowing exactly how much alive that baby is before it is born, but I don't want to be too exclusive. A man can't be pregnant but he can use his feelings and thoughts, so you're most welcome to your opinions! I think what made me see it differently was a book, many many years ago, by a woman journalist, pro-abortion, who worked under cover in a NY abortion clinic. It was her conclusion, still to support abortion as a lesser of 2 evils, but still to face the uncomfortable reality and to call abortion a murder. It is very difficult for any of us to support something that in fact is murder. I feel however that I cannot duck this reality (I know, you don't think it is a reality) and so with much sorrow and regret I have an opinion that accepts that sometimes such murder (or at least killing) is the best option. But please, with humility and caution, not with pride 4 or 5 times in a row! Old Lieve off for a little celebration indeed! - -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Notaro [mailto:notaro@stpt.usf.edu] Sent: 23 April 2004 16:56 To: ReckersL@ebrd.com; Joni List Subject: Re: (NJC) pro-whatever Just for one simple fact: after a certain > number of weeks, a baby (call it foetus) in the womb is just as much a baby > as one that's just come out after 9 months. I have posted this before, > because I think it is the one thing that most pro-choice people try to > ignore. Please don't assume this Lieve. In my case, it is just that I don't agree with your statement as one of fact. Jerry P.S. Happy Birthday!!!!!!!!!!! EBRD SECURITY NOTICE This email has been virus scanned ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:44:57 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: (NJC) pro-whatever > Thanks Jerry! I wish I could see it that way too, it would make it so much > easier. And I could claim a woman's prerogative for having been pregnant > and knowing exactly how much alive that baby is before it is born, but I > don't want to be too exclusive. A man can't be pregnant but he can use his > feelings and thoughts, so you're most welcome to your opinions! True, which is my point that it is women's groups which are strongest lobby for the right to choose. As a perfect example, see the following from this morning's paper here in Florida. Betty is running for U.S. Senator. She is our former University President, a friend of mine, and a brilliant woman: Rival questions Castor's ties to political group By Associated Press Published April 23, 2004 MIAMI - U.S. Rep. Peter Deutsch accused rival U.S. Senate candidate Betty Castor's campaign Thursday of using "dirty" tactics and allowing an independent group to play an overly influential role. Deutsch said Emily's List, a political action committee that helps female Democratic candidates who support reproductive rights, has indicated plans to spend money on Castor's behalf. He argued that that would be a coordination of campaign activities, which is barred under campaign finance rules. "I'm not going to let an out-of-state special interest group buy an election or engage in activity that is in violation of the laws ... to try to steal this election," Deutsch said. "Betty needs to make a clear, unequivocal statement that that will not occur." Karen M. White, national political director for Emily's List, said Florida is a priority for the organization but no decisions have been made on how it plans to allocate its funding across the country. Castor campaign consultant Doug Hattaway said Deutsch's remarks were misleading. "This kind of overheated rhetoric indicates a campaign unraveling," Hattaway said. Castor overhauled her campaign structure in recent months, bringing in a campaign manager with ties to Emily's List. Castor campaign officials said 29 percent of last quarter's collections was raised through the organization - - more than 4,000 donations averaging $83 each. The South Florida congressman responded after Castor's camp on Wednesday pointed out campaign finance records showing Deutsch loaned his Senate war chest $500,000 just before the close of the latest fundraising quarter. The move helped Deutsch report nearly $1.1-million in contributions for the quarter, slightly behind Castor's $1.25-million, while avoiding the appearance of a sluggish fundraising period. Deutsch said the Castor campaign's calling attention to his loan "besmirches her name." The party's third candidate, Miami-Dade Mayor Alex Penelas, reported about $700,000 raised in the first quarter, bringing his total to more than $3-million. ) Copyright 2003 St. Petersburg Times. All rights reserved All of Betty's rivals are men. They sure do seem to have made this a woman vs. men issue. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #187 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)