From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #181 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, April 21 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 181 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Debra's Tom Robbins-ing (NJC) ["Kay Ashley" ] Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words [Jerry Not] Joni and Willy the Shake [Jerry Notaro ] Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words [SCJoniGuy] Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words [Jerry Not] Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words [Chris Mar] Re: Joni, the poet ["ron" ] Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words [Jerry Not] Re: Where are you in the pictures? [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Where are you in the pictures? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Where are you in the pictures? [Em ] Fw: [acousticharmonies] Wilson Phillips Covers CD!?!?! [Emiliano ] Fw: [acousticharmonies] Joni Mitchell [Emiliano ] RE: Bush-NJC ["anon anon" ] Re: You brush against a stranger... ["ron" ] Re: Fw: Wilson Phillips Covers CD!?!?! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: wtrf [Randy Remote ] wtrf . . . Joni as poet ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: ya'lls pictures/jonifest/ who's guitar is this? (NJC) [Lori Fye ] Re: Where are you in the pictures? [Susan Guzzi ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:45:14 -0400 From: "Kay Ashley" Subject: Debra's Tom Robbins-ing (NJC) I am reading through digests belatedly (still on #171), and I have to say: Oh my god, I have just read Debra's Tom Robbins schtick -- Debra, that is brilliant!! I figured that the Henry James thingy was also brilliant, but not having read any Henry James, I didn't really have a good perspective, though I did enjoy it thoroughly. However, as a major fan of "Jitterbug Perfume" and "Still Life with Woodpecker", I must say that you have an amazing ear for writing style, as well as an amazing ability to channel it. So, when are you going to publish your own book, huh? Still in awe, Kay Debra Shea wrote: Reading Tom Robbins is like riding an old and trusty rusty red bicycle down a big hill with arms and legs flung outward, head thrown back, the wind alone holding us upright and gravity deciding our path. Wheeeeee! And whoooshhh, down the hill and around a curve, savoring this mound that entices sledders in the slippery slide of winter and excites a rider in the bursting blooming engorging of spring. A perceptive reader will understand this in this first quarter century of the new millennium when men don't understand women and women sometimes wonder about men. The reader may be an astronomy topology physiology buff or may be like the author who now libidinously rides his bicycle underneath carrying him to heights yet to be reached, traveling down the hill, into the valley, and then urging him upward and if it's night he sees the stars above as he rises upward and he wonders. What are they? They are not diamonds in a tiara. They are not sparkles on a ballgown. They are not sequins thrown upward by some demented seamstress. They are not sparks left over from last year's fireworks. No. Those stars are not any of those things... They are clumps of dust and there's some notion that they have to do with you and they have to do with me and the perceptive reader will understand this in this first quarter century of the new millennium when men don't understand women and women sometimes wonder about men. _____________________________________________________________ The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems and notify the sender immediately. You should not retain, copy or use this email for any purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its content to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:16:24 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words Apples and oranges. There is a difference between making artistic references to someone prose, and two lines of a lyric lifted word for word without permission or license. Jerry > violation case here. Are you listening, Joni????> > > Well, Joni's lifted from a couple of outside sources as well, > Camus & Nietschze immediately come to mind. She better just > keep shushed about it. Those Burundi drummers may show up > looking for some hefty royalties too. > > Bob > > NP: Santana, "Africa Bamba" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:19:58 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Joni and Willy the Shake From a review of our Shakespeare in the Park9s Much Ado About Nothing from the St. Petersburg Times:: Relief came in two songs, with Shakespeare9s lyrics and music by Marcus Hummon, nicely performed by Messina9s answer to Joni Mitchell, an attendant named Barbara, played by Julie Rowe. Jerry np: Children and Art - Patrick9s favorite! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:42:56 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words Just for the record, I agree with you Jerry. But I did just unearth this interesting quote from a 2002 interview with Mr. Kratzmann: "She used to copy a lot of stuff," he says. "She'd see a painting of a landscape and she'd duplicate it, and, when we'd be writing poetry, she'd have a tendency to sort of, like, pick Wordsworth's Daffodils and write a poem about tulips but use the same rhyme scheme and style." Bob NP: Santana, "Wishing It Was" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:54:39 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words > Just for the record, I agree with you Jerry. But I did just > unearth this interesting quote from a 2002 interview with > Mr. Kratzmann: > > "She used to copy a lot of stuff," he says. "She'd see a painting of a > landscape and she'd duplicate it, and, when we'd be writing poetry, she'd have > a tendency to sort of, like, pick Wordsworth's Daffodils and write a poem > about tulips but use the same rhyme scheme and style." > > Bob A sign of her true genius! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:04:58 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words On 20 Apr 2004, at 18:16, Jerry Notaro wrote: > Apples and oranges. There is a difference between making artistic > references > to someone prose, and two lines of a lyric lifted word for word without > permission or license. See my other post. Texas, while a waning star, are way too famous over here to risk a blunder of that magnitude. My guess would be that permission was sought for something so obvious as that. - --Chris Marshall chrisATstryngs.com (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:17:11 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Joni, the poet hi >>>>>> Richard wrote: >>>> I put that provocative statement out there to ask people to justify her poet status--care to elaborate? You or anyone else?<<<< well, its really quite simple. prose goes all the way to the end of the page & wraps around. poetry doesnt :-) well - im not much of a one for poetry - so im not really qualified top answer this - but heres my 2c worth. if i can read the lyrics without the music, and still really enjoy it, thens its poetry to me. & with all the time of spent at jmdl's lyrics page, (the font is bigger than on the cds) i really guess her writing qualifies as poetry. & of course, when you can take those few lines away, & sit & think about them deep down inside for a week or more. just because. well, to me thats true poetry, really doing something to & for me. ron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:15:16 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words You wouldn't need to guess. Look on their cd insert to see if the lyrics have been printed. If so, the fact that permission was granted would have to be published with the lyrics. Jerry > On 20 Apr 2004, at 18:16, Jerry Notaro wrote: >> Apples and oranges. There is a difference between making artistic >> references >> to someone prose, and two lines of a lyric lifted word for word without >> permission or license. > > See my other post. Texas, while a waning star, are way too famous over > here > to risk a blunder of that magnitude. My guess would be that permission > was sought for something so obvious as that. > > --Chris Marshall > > chrisATstryngs.com (AIM: Chr15Marshall) > > "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" > Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" > Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:17:57 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? Smurf said: Check this out: http://www.ladiesofthecanyon.com/book.htm Don't know if anyone here has read it yet. I think Kakki once said she was going to order it. I ordered it, and *tried* to read it. It was SO poorly written, I couldn't get through it, even though I tried several times. It is basically a personal story, not only has nothing whatsoever to do with Joni, but credits Judy Collins with writing Ladies of the Canyon. "When Judy Collins recorded the song 'Ladies of the Canyon,' most women who lived there felt like she had written about them." For what it's worth... Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:45:06 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? > Smurf said: > Check this out: > > http://www.ladiesofthecanyon.com/book.htm > > Don't know if anyone here has read it yet. I think Kakki once said she was > going to order it. > I ordered it, and *tried* to read it. It was SO poorly written, I couldn't > get through it, even though I tried several times. It is basically a personal > story, not only has nothing whatsoever to do with Joni, but credits Judy > Collins > with writing Ladies of the Canyon. > > "When Judy Collins recorded the song 'Ladies of the Canyon,' most women who > lived there felt like she had written about them." > > For what it's worth... > > Hugs, > Ashara > I can imagine how bad the book is. The web site sucks. Not only did Judy not write Ladies of the Canyon, she never recorded it. Jerry np: Jeff Buckley - Eternal Life ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:58:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? wow! thanks for posting that, Ashara. I'm sooo glad now I didn't order it. Sounds "not good". Maybe there's a book out there, fiction, that needs to be written about the "ladies". Guess there's no more to be had though, just the delicious little taste of the song and of course the "mind pics". Em - --- AsharaJM@aol.com wrote: > Smurf said: > Check this out: > > http://www.ladiesofthecanyon.com/book.htm > > Don't know if anyone here has read it yet. I think Kakki once said > she was > going to order it. > I ordered it, and *tried* to read it. It was SO poorly written, I > couldn't > get through it, even though I tried several times. It is basically a > personal > story, not only has nothing whatsoever to do with Joni, but credits > Judy Collins > with writing Ladies of the Canyon. > > "When Judy Collins recorded the song 'Ladies of the Canyon,' most > women who > lived there felt like she had written about them." > > For what it's worth... > > Hugs, > Ashara ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:34:02 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: [acousticharmonies] Wilson Phillips Covers CD!?!?! Hi, Bob and all of you! Please excuse me if there's already known: I'm very busy these days so I guess I'm not reading every post: > This is not a late April Fools joke. The May issue of ICE Magazine > reports that Wilson Phillips will release an all covers album > titled "California" due out May 25. The tracks are: Old Man (Neil > Young); California (Joni Mitchell); Already Gone (Eagles); Go Your > Own Way (Fleetwood Mac); Turn! Turn! Turn! (The Byrds); Monday, > Monday (Mamas & Papas); Get Together (Youngbloods); Doctor My Eyes > (Jackson Browne); Dance, Dance, Dance and In My Room (Beach Boys). Well, California! Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:44:32 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: [acousticharmonies] Joni Mitchell yes, it's me again: there have been some other answers, too (one from your truly proud companion) but... - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Michael bosco" Para: Enviado: lunes, 19 de abril de 2004 20:08 Asunto: Re: [acousticharmonies] Joni Mitchell I have a couple of comments that may not address what you're asking, but respond to some things he said... I love his ENTHUSIASM! I think he captures a lot of the great things about Joni, maybe the primary thing of which is that the content of her songs are all about really wanting to be close to other people, as close as possible, to love and be loved and she never seems to lose sight of the fact that that is the most important thing there is, and she just wants you to come out and play, but no power games. I think a lot of rock writing suffers from reductionism, especially in the history-writing part. Writers are looking for pat explanations for some historical fact, to make it simple for the reader and to sound like they know what happened. For example, Bob seems to be saying that Joni's Blue album didn't get played on the radio because radio had become AOR, overly formatted, etc. Well, that is not exactly true, in my opinion -- in 1971 things were still pretty loose, with room for a lots of stuff on AM and FM. I do kinda think that women had a harder time getting airplay, though why that is, is probably more complicated than one would think. But even that is probably too simple an explanation for why she didn't have a HIT sooner. Who knows, it's a complicated thing, why millions of people suddenly start buying a record. Exposure is just one part of it. Rock writers are also too overly focussed on whether something sells (or sold), too, in my opinion. It would suffice, for me, to get a good description and analysis of the songs (Bob gets the lyrical content nicely), and some social history, and personal history, but I don't necessarilly find it that important to hear amateur theorizing about why the record did or didn't sell as well as that writer thinks it should have. Hey, Joni was making a good living and reaching tons of people at the point when she released Blue, I doubt if SHE was complaining, or felt short-changed, she was widely admired and listened to already. Just some thoughts. But I actually do agree about Joni's songs of that time, and how accomplished and wonderful they are. I wasn't a big fan until I spent some time with Blue, (and it is still my favorite) actually, so it may be a good introductory album for someone who is trying to get into her stuff... psychmike Barry Mc Cabe wrote: [...] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:42:27 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: [acousticharmonies] Joni Mitchell Well, since I'm not forwarding Wally's... and there's a new one from this day that I'd love to do ;-) Hi, Bob! I hope you don't mind your must-have compilation is taking its way there! Love y'all, even the ugly americans Emiliano, so proud these days for being Spaniard! - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Barry Mc Cabe" Para: "Acousticharmonies" Enviado: lunes, 19 de abril de 2004 15:28 Asunto: Re: [acousticharmonies] Joni Mitchell > Hi Robin & All, > > Robin Tarry wrote: > > > Joni Mitchell~Off The Record > > Compiled by Bob Muller > > OK, I've got to admit - I've never liked Joni. I just don't 'get' her - > never have and probably never will. However the only reason I'm talking > about her now is because I read a mail recently about her on another > list and I have to admit the way the guy wrote about her really tempted > me to go back and check out some of her stuff. I'm going to re-post his > mail here (he doesn't mind). I think I posted something from him before > (the Simon & Garfunkel re-union tour). He's a very intense writer, so > maybe it's just his energy I'm picking up on and after checking out some > Joni I'll still have the same opinion!! lol. > > So my question is - do you Joni fans agree with what he writes? Should I > check out this song (and other material from her)? Thanks for any info. > Peace > Barry > ****** > Legend has it David Geffen told Joni Mitchell to write a HIT! > > In 1971, Joni Mitchell released one of the two best singer-songwriter > albums ever, "Blue". The press praised it. The cognoscenti applauded > it. Sensitive boys and girls purchased it. But radio didn't play it. > > It took Joni a while to develop. Oh, her songwriting chops were there, > she just wasn't sure who she wanted to BE! > > The first album, "Song To A Seagull", was tentative. > > "Clouds" was so quiet and introspective as to inspire the likes of Nick > Drake. It was single observant female ripping open her heart to reveal > her soul. A true classic in retrospect, but absent SO many sides of > Joni Mitchell. For Joni Mitchell isn't only quiet and sensitive, she's > also loud and rocking, wry and coy, she's a fully-rounded GIRL! > > Finally, these different elements came out in "Ladies Of The Canyon". > THIS was the breakthrough. THIS was a WOMAN'S take on the Southern > California scene. > > But there were no hits. > > Oh, there were hits for others. CSNY had a monster with an electrified > "Woodstock". And Tom Rush had cut "The Circle Game" years before... > Actually, that was one of "Ladies Of The Canyon"'s flaws. Why WAS "The > Circle Game" on the record. It seemed tacked on, out of place. Like > "Big Yellow Taxi". > > But "Blue" was created on a fresh piece of paper. All of a piece. It > was a STATEMENT, this is where I am NOW! There was the true desire of > "All I Want". The wistful/hopeful "California". And her own personal > "Day In The Life", "The Last Time I Saw Richard". > > But it was no longer 1968. FM radio was no longer underground. It > didn't play to the senses, rather it played to TESTOSTERONE! FM had > been codified into AOR. AOR was music to drive your Camaro by. If it > was sensitive, it was longhair on dope lamenting the absence of his old > lady. True thought, true introspection by a FEMALE? That had no place > on the dial. > > Joni Mitchell had finally gotten it TOGETHER! But the INSTITUTIONS had > passed her by. > > Maybe the lack of success contributed to Joni's retreat. Buying a plot > of land in backwoods Canada and living there all alone, trying to...get > her head together. > > And what emerged next was 1972's "For The Roses". > > There are no minor Joni Mitchell records. At least until some time in the > 80s. Yet, "For The Roses", although BRILLIANT, although deserving of > FIVE STARS, was a step shy of "Blue". When Stevie Wonder hit his peak > with "Talking Book", the audience was WITH HIM! People were paying > ATTENTION! Everybody was WATCHING! This spurred him on. To write > "Innervisions", and "Fulfillingness' First Finale". But people weren't > watching Joni Mitchell. Not in prodigious quantities. So she went > deeper into herself. Yet, unlike with the first two albums, the record > was of a piece. It was "Blue", but from a different perspective. > > Although save one you don't hear any of these songs on the radio, the > tracks off "For The Roses" contain some of Joni Mitchell's BEST lines. > > Listen to "Lesson In Survival". Not only is it MUSICALLY pleasing, it's > an honest portrait of twentysomething adulthood. Just any man, > anywhere, doing anything...that works when you're nineteen. But as you > start to approach thirty, you get to know yourself, and what you need. > This is SO different from today's music. Today's music is about > reflecting the audience. Whereas by singing HER story, Joni Mitchell > allowed one to TRULY identify. > > Still, the best song on "For The Roses" is "Woman Of Heart And Mind". > > Joni begins by stating exactly who she is. > > "I am a woman of heart and mind With time on her hands No child to raise" > > She's OPEN, she'll PLAY. But will she be taken advantage of, will she > be ABUSED? > > Joni will deliver for you. Be your best friend. Your mother even. > > But like a typical guy, after getting what you want, THAT'S NOT ENOUGH! > > "After the rush when you come back down You're always disappointed > Nothing seems to keep you high Drive your bargains Push your papers Win > your medals Fuck your strangers Don't it leave you on the empty side" > > WOW! > > And what's even MORE amazing is today there are WOMEN like this. So > into ACHIEVEMENT, so into their RESUME that they can't wholly connect, > can't be counted on to BE THERE for you. Your attachment to them is > often as an ACCESSORY! > > But Joni draws a line. > > "I'm looking for affection and respect A little passion And you want > stimulation-nothing more That's what I think But you know I'll try to be > there for you When your spirits start to sink" > > God, that's what I'M looking for. You don't have to be perfect, but you > have to be IN IT! You have to want ME! Be into ME! Otherwise, it just > doesn't work. > > And then there's the poignancy of the closing lines. Ones I've uttered > only second to the couplet in "A Case Of You". > > "You know the times you impress me most Are the times when you don't try > When you don't even try" > > That's IT! Who you ARE is enough. You don't have to dress up. You > don't have to put on airs. I need no demonstration of erudition. > There's only one YOU! Be THAT person. THAT'S the person I'm enamored of. > > [Oh, the couplet in "A Case Of You"? It's: "I could drink a case of you > darling, and I would still be on my feet."] Still as great as "Woman Of > Heart And Mind" is, Joe and Jane Average would never come in contact > with it. They're too far removed from artistry. There's no AIRPLAY! > How can we get THEM to hear the REST of Joni's music. > > By having a HIT! > > Yes, this was the OPPOSITE of today's syndrome. The HIT will draw you > to the ALBUM tracks. And, at the time, it was well known that the hit > was oftentimes a confection, that didn't truly reflect the artist, that > wasn't truly representative of the artist's music. But only music FANS > knew this. The people who listened to hits? They were OUT OF IT! > > Kind of like today. But now NO ONE CARES about the fan, major labels > ONLY play to the casual listener. > > So, to break through, Joni sat down to write a hit. > > I won't say "You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio" is the weakest song on "For > The Roses", but it's kind of pedestrian. There aren't the changes in so > many of Joni's great songs. The words aren't as deep or cryptic. > > Still, it was rewarding to finally hear Joni on the AM radios that still > populated so many cars. > > Yet, "You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio" was "For The Roses"'s throwaway. The > trifle, not the meat. So, I never play it. I mean if I play all of > "For The Roses", I hear it. But I've never ripped it. I never play it > only. "You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio" is for EVERYBODY! And what I love > about Joni, is she's done it for ME! Yes, that's what it's like > listening to her albums, like she cut them for YOU, like she knows YOU! > > Still, I've heard "You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio" so much, it's in my > DNA. And, as I exited from my car an hour ago on a beautiful Southern > California afternoon, it started to go through my head. > > "I know you don't like weak women You get bored so quick And you don't > like strong women 'Cause they're hip to your tricks" > > Wow. What AM I looking for? > > Joni's THOUGHT about this. She's got me pegged. > > God, I hate being bored. Then again, I don't want to constantly be ON > GUARD! > > I rushed into my house and pulled the lyrics. > > The song SEEMS to be about a radio station, but really it's about Joni. > Sending her message. To a man. > > "And I'm sending you out This signal here I hope you can pick it up Loud > and clear" > > That's what I wait for. The SIGNAL! It can be a look. It can be an > invitation. Just a demonstration that you're INTO ME, that you want to > PLAY! > > And the way the song ENDS! > > I use these lines all the time. I wait for when a woman uses them on me. > > "Call me at the station The lines are open" > > I'm READY. And WILLING! AND ABLE!! > > It occurred to me. Joni Mitchell's sell-outs are STILL far superior to > EVERYTHING broadcast on hit stations today. > > Eventually, with her following album, "Court and Spark", Joni Mitchell > truly broke through to the mainstream. She had HITS! > > But make no mistake, she didn't need to develop. She already HAD IT! > The audience just had to catch up with HER! Thank god the process > didn't frustrate her so much that she gave up. Thank god she had a > record company and manager who could see the long term. > > Play ANY of these albums. In their under fifty minute length they STILL > have more insight into the human condition than ANYTHING released > since. I only hope as young boys discover Led Zeppelin, they and their > female brethren will discover Joni Mitchell. Yes, Joni's for > EVERYBODY! She's our best selves. Not perfect, but honest and > three-dimensional. > > ---------------------------------------- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:53:47 -0400 From: "anon anon" Subject: RE: Bush-NJC Suzanne, After 9/11 we had the sympathy of the entire world.Now,2 and a halph years later,the whole world is against us...What does that tell you about Bush? >From: "Suzanne MarcAurele" >Reply-To: "Suzanne MarcAurele" >To: >Subject: Bush-NJC >Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:03:03 -0400 > >I think its great fun that outsiders think they can bash Bush but dare not >compare him to oh say Sadaam - America has its flaws, Bush certainly does >to, but its nice to know no one will go missing into oblivion for political >views, poverty, or whatever fiat the hundreds of unknown leaders practice >every day > >I just wonder when outsiders will concentrate on making their countries >global friendly instead of thinking the USA is the cause for the tyranny >and >poverty in their countries - I worked a 12 hour shift yesterday and like >millions of hard working Americans I have to ask - how is that responsible >for the mess in your neck of the woods? > >S. _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:59:52 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger... hi came up with the following article after looking up the line. indisputable proof that joni *is* a poet - after all, if they say so on the internet it *must* be true :-) ron Your mother should know... Joni Mitchell's Court and Spark By Anne Seidler Published: Thursday, November 13, 2003 Article Tools: Page 1 of 2 Court and Spark is truly the best of the best. Joni Mitchell was the best female songwriter of the '60s and '70s, and Court and Spark, released in 1974, is her greatest achievement, combining understated lyrics and deep philosophy, innovative arrangements and painstakingly realized songs. The first few bars of piano that open the record - which are full of the subdued eloquence that characterizes Mitchell's work - prepare the listener for an album that explores human hopes and shortcomings with honesty and grace. The album is so flawlessly produced that its wide range of unconventional instruments (chimes, woodwinds, clavinet) come together like the mechanisms of a Swiss watch - yet it still somehow sounds effortless and improvisational. Many well-known musicians contributed to the album, including Jose Feliciano on electric guitar and Graham Nash, David Crosby and - bizarrely enough - Cheech and Chong on backup vocals. By the time she recorded Court and Spark, Mitchell's voice, which was previously known for its lilting, folksy high notes, had slightly mellowed and deepened to a timbre more appropriate for a jazz chanteuse than a barefoot flower child. The album represents Mitchell's transition from the innocent, optimistic voice of songs like "Woodstock" and "Big Yellow Taxi" to that of a sophisticated, but not quite cynical, woman of the world. In a way, her songs mirror the final comedown of the 1970s, when the youthful optimism of the counterculture over-ripened into worldly decadence. You know that the climactic lines of "Car on a Hill" embody more than disappointment in love when Mitchell sings, "It always seems so righteous at the start / When there's so much laughter / When there's so much spark." Mitchell is as much a poet as a musician, and her lyrics on Court and Spark acutely describe cycles of human desire and unfullfilment. The lyrical highlight of the album is "Down to You," a painfully honest, existential meditation on alienation that quietly captures loneliness and human indifference with lyrics like "In the morning there are lovers in the street / They look so high / You brush against a stranger / And you both apologize." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:03:55 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Fw: Wilson Phillips Covers CD!?!?! Thanks for all of those posts, Emiliano...I wish that guy who wrote that thesis on FTR was on this list. Did not know about the Wilson Phillips, so thanks for the tip. Some sources show the title as "California", and some as "Pacific Coast Highway". In any event it comes out next month so I'll find out soon enough. Always glad to see the more obscure Joni titles getting covered...2004 continues to be a MAJOR year for Joni covers! Bob NP: Sara K, "Steam Rises" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:32:25 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: wtrf imo this is Joni's last great album, in general and vocally. Despite the spare production, there is some nice vocal layering in the background. RR Bruce Kimerer wrote: > I must say that WTRF is a real nice record. Have been listening to it after > a long time. And enjoying it a lot. To me, it's Joni's let's have fun rockn > roll album, without the sonic and lyrical baggage of DED & CMIARS. All the > songs have a light production touch, not too heavy, not too spare. Her voice > is great. And the lead off track is so strong that it gives emotional weight > to the whole endeavor. All in all, it sounds like an inevitable step after > DJRD and M. > > Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:40:40 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: wtrf . . . Joni as poet I loved your post here Nuriel, I don't know if I have time to post more on the list or not about this. . . but it was lovely, and Yes, I would say that Joni is a poet. I've always thought so. Oh, what the heck, I'll just post this for now, it's better than nothing. LOve Marianne >Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:06:25 -0700 (PDT) >From: Nuriel Tobias >Subject: RE: wtrf Nuriel said: Mmmmm...well, What is poetry? A short piece of imaginative writing, of a personal nature and laid out in lines is the usual answer. Will that do? Not really. A chopped up short story is not a poem, or not necessarily so. But then poetry definitions are difficult, as is aesthetics generally. What is distinctive and important tends to evade the qualified language in which we attempt to cover all considerations. Perhaps we could add a rider: poetry is a responsible attempt to understand the world in human terms through literary composition. But many contemporary poets would disagree, and the profession today commonly adopts an amalgam of three distinct viewpoints. Traditionalist argue that a poem is an expression of a vision that is rendered in a form intelligible and pleasurable to others and so likely to arouse kindred emotions. For Modernists, a poem is an autonomous object that may or may not represent the real world but is created in language made distinctive by its complex web of references. Postmodernists look on on poems as collages of current idioms that are intriguing but self-contained: they employ, challenge and/or mock preconceptions, but refer to nothing beyond themselves. I think Joni has done all of that, and more, in her works. They're all examples. Love, Nuriel Richard Flynn wrote: But Nuriel, I pretty much qualified that by implyig that she is a port as far as rock 'n' roll lyricists go. I put that provocative statement out there to ask people to justify her poet status--care to elaborate? You or anyone else? examples please. . . and of course, your definition of what constitutes "poetry." - - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Nuriel Tobias Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 9:03 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: wtrf >Richard Flynn wrote: >>"This raises the question of, "is Joni a poet"? I don't think so" >But i do!:) >Love, >Nuriel _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:21:38 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: ya'lls pictures/jonifest/ who's guitar is this? (NJC) Em wrote: > So I will go ahead and put in for those days off from work. > Hey, its a step. Hey! That rocks!!! Good grrrl, Em! Lori, buried under work today ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:23:42 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: njc, Jimmy Carter -- a "Peace President" - to energy Patti, Thank you for the beautiful quote form Jimmy Carter. It is inspiring. Today's talk of Bush is reminding me of a favorite Bush Bumper Sticker: BUSH 2004 4 MORE WARS kind of funny, kind of not A couple of months ago, someone called in during a talk show . . .and the woman said something like, "What is our president asking of us?" She said , that as far as she knew, "the only thing the president has asked of us is to spend money." I thought that was interesting. I want a president who will ask the American public to conserve energy by 10 percent. How about some inspiration or some gentle reminders to trurn the lights off, or turn the heat down when you're not at home. . . or put the clothes out to dry?. . . how about when you go into those restaurants and it is very, very cold inside? Too cold (air conditioned cubicles)? . . . Just some simple encouragements by some leadership would go a very long way. What if every one in the nation just tried a little to conserve energy? What if we only cut consumption by 5%? Wouldn't THAT be a wonderful thing, even? We could lead by example. . .yeah, leading by example is the way learning best occurs. .. Modeling. . . M O D E L I N G. . . any good psychologist or parent will tell you that if you want to teach your children, that modeling is the ticket. . .. (as opposed to operant conditioning, classical conditioning, negative reinforcement, etc..) Anyway, I want a president who can inspire the nation, like Jimmy Carter does in this speech. Come inspire me to be a better person. . .come inspire me to be a better citizen of the world . .. Where is the leadership? Where is the energy policy? I think I did hear John Kerry talking about an energy policy. In the meantime, how about we all encourage each other? Marianne >Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:49:13 +0000 >From: "Patti Parlette" >Subject: njc, Jimmy Carter -- a "Peace President" >Oh, if only Jimmy Carter were in the White House NOW! >I keep this quote on my desk at work; it's from a graduation address he >gave at Trinity College in Hartford (CT) a few years ago..... >"Graduating from college is a turning point. It's a time of unprecedented >freedom to make choices about life. I think we're faced in these modern >days with the same choice that existed 2,000 years ago. The people of >Corinth asked St. Paul, "What is the most important thing in life?"....St. >Paul gave them an answer that was hard to understand...."the things you >cannot see" are the most important. What are the things you cannot see? >You can see a bank account. Is that important? You can see a beautiful >house. You can see your name in the paper. But you can't see justice. >You can't see peace. You can't see service and humility and compassion. >Those are the important things. And there was one more thing that Paul >mentioned, and that is love." >And what choice has GWB made? War. We are on a "war footing." He is a >self-procaimed "war president." War is NOT the answer to the problems in >the world. You can kill people, but you can't kill ideas. >Kate and Sherelle, my heart goes out to you, having family members over >there. May they come home safe, and SOON! My beloved son almost joined >the Air National Guard last year and I fought that with every ounce of >passion in my being (oh yes, i shook my fists at lightning and roared like >forest fire!). I thank God every day that he reconsidered, remained in >school, and is now looking into joining the Peace Corps. >With prayers for peace, >Patti _________________________________________________________________ Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN Premium! http://join.msn.com/?page=features/mlb&pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:36:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Fw: [acousticharmonies] Joni Mitchell now njc --- Emiliano wrote: > Love y'all, even the ugly americans They're not *all* ugly. Some of them are kinda cute, cute, cute, in a stupid-assed way. But I love 'em all anyway. > Emiliano, so proud these days for being Spaniard! Viva l'Espana! (yeah, there's supposed to be a tilde over the n, but I have no idea how to put one there and they always change into something else anyway, the little buggas.) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:43:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: njc, Jimmy Carter -- a "Peace President" --- Patti Parlette wrote: > Oh, if only Jimmy Carter were in the White House > NOW! > > I keep this quote on my desk at work; it's from a > graduation address he gave > at Trinity College in Hartford (CT) a few years > ago..... > I have no idea whether Jimmy Carter was a good president or not. I have no idea what makes a good leader. Sometimes it's luck. If you get through it and there's no war, and people have jobs and the economy is doing well, or at least OK, and most people are relatively happy, is it something YOU did, or is it just luck or the times? Whether or not he was a good president, I am completely satisifed that Jimmy Carter is one hell of a fine person and I'm sure they could never find any dirt on him, no matter how hard they might try. The world could use more people like him. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:54:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: njc, Jimmy Carter -- a "Peace President" - to energy --- Marianne Rizzo wrote: > > A couple of months ago, someone called in during a > talk show . . .and the > woman said something like, "What is our president > asking of us?" > > She said , that as far as she knew, "the only thing > the president has asked > of us is to spend money." > I thought that was interesting. Playing devil's advocate for a moment... there are people who believe that in order to stimulate the economy, you should spend money - spend your way out of recession. I don't know about that, but it's one economic theory. It sounds a bit of a gamble to me and I for one can't afford to gamble. It's easy to spend provided you have a lot of money. Not so easy for those who are out of work, or the working poor. And the huge deficits left by this war will be mind-boggling. I think the gap will just widen between rich and poor and the middle class will dwindle. > I want a president who will ask the American public > to conserve energy by 10 > percent. How about some inspiration or some gentle > reminders to trurn the > lights off, or turn the heat down when you're not at > home. . . or put the > clothes out to dry?. . . how about when you go into > those restaurants and it > is very, very cold inside? Too cold (air > conditioned cubicles)? . . . I'm totally with you there. If we don't conserve, we will be forced to conserve. We'll have more power blackouts like we had last summer. Here in Ontario, we've been told our electricity rates will be going up (what else is new?) but they're going to put special meters on all homes that will charge you according to the time you're using power - if you use power between 6 a.m. and 8 p.m., the peak periods, you'll pay more. This is great for me, because I almost always do my laundry and so on later in the evening anyway. And yeah, it's always too cold in most restaurants and office buildings, and malls, and grocery stores. And too many bright lights are left on all the time. After the power outage last August, the stores and malls cut back on the lights and so on for a couple of weeks, but by fall, it was back to the old wasteful ways. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:00:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: icu njc --- tantra_apso wrote: > I just got home from spending the night in the icu > of my local hospital. Colin, that sucks. I can't think of anything that sounds more stressful, and less restful, than being in an ICU, so it seems completely insane to put heart patients in them, but they do it all the time. I agree, you shouldn't tell the docs anything about your past that isn't directly related to your heart. Doctors give little credence to anyone who has ever had mental health issues. It seems anyone that has had any mental illness, of any kind, is considered to be a whacko from then on. And it's never "just" stress. Stress is serious stuff, not just someone being neurotic because they have too much time on their hands. Arrggh. > I am becoming quite a medic. the man in the bed > nextdoor was describing his > 'acid' attack. i know about those and knew he was > not having acid but a heart > attack. Later, when he repeated story to dr the dr > agreeed with me!;-) Paging Dr Colin - Dr Colin! To the ICU - stat!!! oh noooooo! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:06:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? Well Hello Joni Freaks! Hey Em ... Ladies of the Canyon is one that gives me visuals too. I dont know who Joni meant those ladies to be - but I know who Annie is to me. She is my long departed Robin - can't hear the song with out a flash of her, with a pinch of something she would create in the kitchen and shove in my mouth as I entered the room. Also with our Queen of all cats at her feet - acting as if she was helping her the whole time! Yep Annie is my Robin for sure! Now the one of the other songs that give me a visual - as if they all don't, but in the case of the ones I intend to mention - it's a constant repeating scene. In the case of - Night in the City" ... I see this exact block in NYC - and picture a young bohemian artist kind of couple, running joyously down the stairs of a building, I think its on St. Marks Street - from upstairs above the old Orlins cafe, which is no longer there from what I hear. But so what I aint 25 anymore either. I think its just twilight and they are off to walk and dance and dine and make love on a rooftop - later. And well they may be a little high on life or some herbal influence - but they are joyous - in love - and on top of the world! On the flip side of the day is "Morning Morgantown." This is one that I picture much in the same way - except of course I picture it with me and a certain someone. Early morning coffee and watching people and the both of us observing and sharing our snapshot of all those around us. Running up to windows and pointing things out - and then buying something frivolous and lauging all the way home. Waving to and smiling at strangers and spreading our infectious joy and laughter - hell there may even still be a milkman around to stop and chat with! And finally Lucy - as you may well imagine Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire - has almost an identical picture for me - except its all true flashbacks. But that rainy part under the fire escape - is so vivid for me as well. Funny even before my personal storm with this issue - i saw this song much the same and it seemd to be sadly - prophetic. Well, you may say I'm a dreamer - as I stare out and play out these visuals - but apparently - I am not the only one! Peace, Susan NP: Nellie McKay - Manhattan Avenue Em wrote: Hi all, I have enjoyed this thread so far..been interesting to read. While I get lots of visuals and mental image flashes from the JM stuff I'm familiar with (yes guilty as charged, early 70's stuff back) I don't ever see *myself* in there, per se..EXCEPT with a groovy little song that I've always loved so much, and which is pure candy. And that would be "Ladies of the Canyon". Dang I love that portrait! Love those women! ANyone know who they are?? Are they specific people?? Industry guys' wives/old ladies/hippy mammas perhaps? Anyway, with this song I am very much transported as myself to the interior of an alternative dwelling on a hillside, lots of natural wood furniture, lots of batik and other wall hangings..particulalrly well done tie -dye and some paisley kinds of stuff. lets see, mucho patchouli, herbal tea, the other kind of tea, you know "tea tea tea tea - to make you free" as Donovan wrote... anyway... I lurv these ladies for some reason and can perfectly well put myself right in that little scenario. OK had to share again...sorry..can't seem to stifle. Can even picture climbing banyans... :) Em reminds me like on 6 Feet Under, their mom's sister who is/was I imagine a sort of "Canyon Lady" tho severely wasted... > Lucy Hone wrote: > Every time I listen to certain Joni songs I get the same mental > pictures in my > head.... and I am right in them. Every time. The pictures do not > alter, and > have not done so for years. > > For Example.. Peoples Parties. > > I am sitting on the floor looking across a room. I have my back to a > chair > arm, it is a large leather chair, chunky, 1930's 40's like a big arm > chair you > find the foyer of a big hotel... and it is slightly tatty. The room > has a sort > of Edward Hopper feel to the lighting.. Somehow dense and airless. > There is a > half open window, but no breeze, and the pale cream curtains hang > down over > slatted blinds. There is a low wooden coffee table ahead of me and on > the > other side of it a long low leather sofa. I have a view of knees and > cocktail > dresses and shoes. The faces of the people are always hidden from me > but I > imagine the men as urbane, aloof, the women trying to be cool but > clamouring > for attention. Harold Pinter would frame it all in silences of the > most > meaningful type. Brittle laughter, fingers describing ideas in the > smokey air, > quietly someone is making arrangements for secret meeting, and out of > sight is > the booming slam of waves onto a sandy beach. > > It is always the same vision and sense of being elsewhere. > > Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire has me hiding under a metal fire > escape on a > wet night. There are rubbish bags and bins and there is always a > feeling of > cold that clings that makes me want to pull my coat around me. Broken > glass, > and dogs roaming and a landscape that alters only as I climb the fire > escape > and peer into the room where people are out of it, on matresses. Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #181 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)