From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #180 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, April 20 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 180 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Where are you in the pictures? ["Lucy Hone" ] RE: wtrf [Garret ] Re: Next marketing gimmick for Joni....HITS [Garret ] RE: wtrf [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: ya'lls pictures/jonifest/ who's guitar is this? (NJC) [Jerry Notaro <] Re: scorpios, NJC [LCStanley7@aol.com] RE: wtrf [Em ] Bush-NJC ["Suzanne MarcAurele" ] Re: Joni, the poet [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: wtrf -- njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] That Joni film [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: (NJC) Book Swap List and a general Hello! and some Kerry news [Smurfy] Re: Where are you in the pictures? [Jenny Goodspeed ] RE: (NJC) Book Swap List and a general Hello! and some Kerry news [Recker] Re: You brush against a stranger... ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Re: You brush against a stranger... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] yeats njc [kate@katebennett.com] Re: You brush against a stranger... [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Where are you in the pictures? [Em ] Re: You brush against a stranger... [notaro@stpt.usf.edu] njc, Jimmy Carter -- a "Peace President" ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: Where are you in the pictures? [Em ] Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words [SCJoniGuy] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:22:44 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Where are you in the pictures? Every time I listen to certain Joni songs I get the same mental pictures in my head.... and I am right in them. Every time. The pictures do not alter, and have not done so for years. For Example.. Peoples Parties. I am sitting on the floor looking across a room. I have my back to a chair arm, it is a large leather chair, chunky, 1930's 40's like a big arm chair you find the foyer of a big hotel... and it is slightly tatty. The room has a sort of Edward Hopper feel to the lighting.. Somehow dense and airless. There is a half open window, but no breeze, and the pale cream curtains hang down over slatted blinds. There is a low wooden coffee table ahead of me and on the other side of it a long low leather sofa. I have a view of knees and cocktail dresses and shoes. The faces of the people are always hidden from me but I imagine the men as urbane, aloof, the women trying to be cool but clamouring for attention. Harold Pinter would frame it all in silences of the most meaningful type. Brittle laughter, fingers describing ideas in the smokey air, quietly someone is making arrangements for secret meeting, and out of sight is the booming slam of waves onto a sandy beach. It is always the same vision and sense of being elsewhere. Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire has me hiding under a metal fire escape on a wet night. There are rubbish bags and bins and there is always a feeling of cold that clings that makes me want to pull my coat around me. Broken glass, and dogs roaming and a landscape that alters only as I climb the fire escape and peer into the room where people are out of it, on matresses. "Barangrill" IS an Edward Hopper painting called Night Hawks.(i think). The waitress, the people staring into coffees and the solid slab of light smacking the pavement and the rest of the world invisible behind its brightness... "Urge for Going", has me standing out on a jetty looking back towards a town (you would probably do best to think of New England... for the Brits think Western HIghlands of Scotland).. its all inlets and lakes and rocky bits and pine trees, and houses that seem to crowd about, and cling to the fabric of the land around them... "Carey" is a room full of light with a view over the ocean in somewhere like Cadiz in Spain. somewhere a bit tumbledown and a bit in need of love, but the views are spectacular and the air warm. And so it goes. Those are just a few but they always remain fixed... What pictorial sensations do you get from our Joni? I dont often post about Joni related things.... I came to this realisation (oddly enough) listening to "Graceland" by Paul Simon and realising that the opening bars of that song and the opening words remind me, every time, of a hill in France that over looks the Baie de Mont St Michel where, in the low tide mud, there are wonderful meanering streams and when the sun is shining its like a huge river delta.... "Shining like a national guitar". Makes the hairs stand up on my arms thinking about it... Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:45:48 +0100 From: Garret Subject: RE: wtrf Random thoughts are good Richard, especially when they make so much sense, I got the Geffen box or whatever it's called as a christmas gift, and went through the albums one at a time, in order. WTRF was a lot better than i had thought it would be/ Unfortunately this raised my hopes for the next two, which let me down; just didn't like the sound, some of the songs are good, but not near the best that have come out of Joni. Then i was afraid of NRH. I fecking loved (erm, love) this album. It is so much better than i thought it would be. I was expecting it to be boring, but was so wrong. I have always liked the Yeats poem, and initially was a little disconcerted with Joni's adaptation. It has become a new favourite. I *did* expect to love TGR as people here talk it up. no, does not do anything for me. That, for me, is the weak point of the album but it may well grow on me. And baby blue - unique interpretation:-) I'll think about your question "is Joni a poet?". I suspect not, but i previously thought so. it will give me a reason to indulge in her music:-) so keep the random thoughts flying Richard! GARRET Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:43:16 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: wtrf I'm happy to hear this--while there are parts of WTRF that sound cheesy, it's a pretty listenable album: "Moon at the Window" "Chinese Cafe" "You Dream Flat Tires." I even like the much maligned "Underneath the Streetlight" and "Solid Love." On the other hand, I don't much like "Man to Man" or "Ladies' Man" and I could take or leave the I Corinthians 13 rewrite--no prejudice against Biblical content--I like the Job piece (though not the Travelogue version). Speaking of Joni adaptations of other people's texts--and you gotta admit she has brass----well, nerve, anyway to take on some of the greatest poetry of the ages: Book of Job, Yeats's "The Second Coming"--which brings me to what I was gonna say. A couple of weeks back on another listserv I belong to-- the UB Poetics list someone sent the text of the Yeats poem--only it was Joni's lyrics. I do have to say that while it makes a pretty good song, the adaptation suffers as poetry compared to the real poem. This raises the question of, "is Joni a poet"? I don't think so, music is too integral to her works of art (she is an artist) and also a lonely painter who lives in a box of paint. On the other hand I think she's a genius songwriter but not a genius painter. Sorry--many random thoughts here. Richard - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:37:19 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: Next marketing gimmick for Joni....HITS As usual i'm about seven digests behind (does anyone else have this problem? lol, by the time i catch up there are always more waiting to be read, so sometimes i start with the most recent and then miss the point of the thread unitl i go backwards). I agree with this post Bob. Hits certainly fulfulls its purpose. I quite disliked Misses at first, but together h & m make a decent collection (maybe even a double cd release would ahve been good). Hits was the first Joni release i bought (in my quest to hear Chelsea Morning) and it got me hooked. So hooked in fact that i have now got all of her albums bar TTT which is on my list somewhere. As you say, T'log and BSN aren't quite up to her previous standard, but how could they be? She is no longer playing the music, gone is the distinctinve guitar and distinctive piano sound. I really did enjoy BSN, but it's nowhere near great in my opinion. T'log may have been better as a single disc (i leave the tracklist to you). Sometimes i wish she would sit down at a piano and compose some more music, with or without singing. GARRET np- Dolly Parton, 9 to 5 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:03:10 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: **Great song, but putting it on Hits felt like a slap in my face for some reason -- maybe because it hadn't been a true "hit" for Joni and adding it to the disc WAS just a gimmick.** It would have been a much better idea for Joni to assemble & release an "Anthology" or better yet a boxset like her buddies CSNY did. I can understand her point in not wanting to negatively impact sales of her early albums, and by the same token I can understand Reprise wanting a 'collection' type release. Joni does have lots of fans like us who will seek out all of her releases, but there are also "fringe" fans who grew up with Joni's songs on the radio and would not buy 5-6 cd's of hers but would buy a CD that compiles her best-known works, even if our familiarity with the song is through another singer. To that end, 'Hits' does a good job, and like you say, it is to date the only commercial release of Urge For Going on CD, to entice the completists, just as the Geffen release was - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:06:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: RE: wtrf Mmmmm...well, What is poetry? A short piece of imaginative writing, of a personal nature and laid out in lines is the usual answer. Will that do? Not really. A chopped up short story is not a poem, or not necessarily so. But then poetry definitions are difficult, as is aesthetics generally. What is distinctive and important tends to evade the qualified language in which we attempt to cover all considerations. Perhaps we could add a rider: poetry is a responsible attempt to understand the world in human terms through literary composition. But many contemporary poets would disagree, and the profession today commonly adopts an amalgam of three distinct viewpoints. Traditionalist argue that a poem is an expression of a vision that is rendered in a form intelligible and pleasurable to others and so likely to arouse kindred emotions. For Modernists, a poem is an autonomous object that may or may not represent the real world but is created in language made distinctive by its complex web of references. Postmodernists look on on poems as collages of current idioms that are intriguing but self-contained: they employ, challenge and/or mock preconceptions, but refer to nothing beyond themselves. I think Joni has done all of that, and more, in her works. They're all examples. Love, Nuriel Richard Flynn wrote: But Nuriel, I pretty much qualified that by implyig that she is a port as far as rock 'n' roll lyricists go. I put that provocative statement out there to ask people to justify her poet status--care to elaborate? You or anyone else? examples please. . . and of course, your definition of what constitutes "poetry." - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Nuriel Tobias Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 9:03 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: wtrf Richard Flynn wrote: "This raises the question of, "is Joni a poet"? I don't think so" But i do!:) Love, Nuriel Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:14:45 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: ya'lls pictures/jonifest/ who's guitar is this? (NJC) >> Maybe if you would be so kind as to kidnap me! > > This can be arranged ... Jerry? Jimmy & Ed? Cindy S? Who all else is in > Florida? We need kidnapping services, please! Well, one of our favorite listers will be visiting Florida this summer and we will be festing. Details to follow....... Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:36:20 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: scorpios, NJC Kate Bennett writes: ....scorpio's are very solitary creatures in my experience... Hi Kate! So that explains my husband! Where is he by the way? Wink. I just love the way he is so quiet and solitary. He's very much like a monk. He loves being out in the woods or in his workshop or even riding his bike down by the river all by himself. BTW, seen Cancer lately? Love, Laura NP: Jeff Bisch, "Wonderin' if You'll Dance with Me" ... AND... Happy Birthday JEFF!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:00:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: RE: wtrf Nuriel wow that was awesome... I couldn't have thought up such clean definitions if the future of the human race depended on it! Well done! Em :) - --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > Mmmmm...well, > > What is poetry? A short piece of imaginative writing, of a personal > nature and laid out in lines is the usual answer. Will that do? > > Not really. A chopped up short story is not a poem, or not > necessarily so. But then poetry definitions are difficult, as is > aesthetics generally. What is distinctive and important tends to > evade the qualified language in which we attempt to cover all > considerations. Perhaps we could add a rider: poetry is a responsible > attempt to understand the world in human terms through literary > composition. > > But many contemporary poets would disagree, and the profession today > commonly adopts an amalgam of three distinct viewpoints. > Traditionalist argue that a poem is an expression of a vision that is > rendered in a form intelligible and pleasurable to others and so > likely to arouse kindred emotions. For Modernists, a poem is an > autonomous object that may or may not represent the real world but is > created in language made distinctive by its complex web of > references. Postmodernists look on on poems as collages of current > idioms that are intriguing but self-contained: they employ, challenge > and/or mock preconceptions, but refer to nothing beyond themselves. > > I think Joni has done all of that, and more, in her works. They're > all examples. > > Love, > > Nuriel > > Richard Flynn wrote: > But Nuriel, > I pretty much qualified that by implyig that she is a port as far as > rock > 'n' roll lyricists go. > > I put that provocative statement out there to ask people to justify > her poet > status--care to elaborate? You or anyone else? > > examples please. . . and of course, your definition of what > constitutes > "poetry." > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > Nuriel Tobias > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 9:03 PM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: RE: wtrf > > > Richard Flynn wrote: > "This raises the question of, "is Joni a poet"? I don't think so" > > But i do!:) > > Love, > > Nuriel > Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" > Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:03:03 -0400 From: "Suzanne MarcAurele" Subject: Bush-NJC I think its great fun that outsiders think they can bash Bush but dare not compare him to oh say Sadaam - America has its flaws, Bush certainly does to, but its nice to know no one will go missing into oblivion for political views, poverty, or whatever fiat the hundreds of unknown leaders practice every day I just wonder when outsiders will concentrate on making their countries global friendly instead of thinking the USA is the cause for the tyranny and poverty in their countries - I worked a 12 hour shift yesterday and like millions of hard working Americans I have to ask - how is that responsible for the mess in your neck of the woods? S. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:42:01 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni, the poet Richard wrote: I put that provocative statement out there to ask people to justify her poet status--care to elaborate? You or anyone else? examples please. . . and of course, your definition of what constitutes "poetry." Hi Richard, I don't think Joni really needs any justification as for being a poet. She's one of the finest poets the world will ever know. To understand poetry, you have to understand the definition of "poem." A poem according to Webster is: "an arrangement of words, esp. a rhythmical composition, sometimes rhymed, in a style more imaginative than ordinary speech." It comes from the Greek word "poiein" which means "to make." Joni speaks poetically even when she isn't writing. Just listen to her tell the story about the lady bursting into her room while she was knitting in a motel room in Canada after Woodstock, on the DVD Painting with Words and Music. She's as pleasant and entertaining to listen to speaking as she is singing because she has a natural rhythmical tone to her speech and is definitely imaginitive in her expression. The arrangement of the seating for that concert was very poetical also, representing different peoples and different gifts people have. She's all poetry in my opinion, from the way she moves to the way she paints to the way she sings and rhythmically tells stories in her poems put to music. Need I say more?! With love and awe, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:42:33 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: wtrf -- njc Em writes: << Nuriel wow that was awesome... I couldn't have thought up such clean definitions if the future of the human race depended on it! Well done! >> I think he forgot to add the url. It's here: http://www.poetrymagic.co.uk/whatispoetry.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:02:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: That Joni film Think it was a year ago or something, that some of you told us that Joni has hired a film director (A woman, and if i recall, a specialist in documentry films) to create a film about her. My question is - is this film one of the 2 new DVD'S? If not - do you know what happened with that project? Love, Nuriel Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:15:03 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Book Swap List and a general Hello! and some Kerry news Lieve writes: << the swap was originally Mags idea, credit to where it belongs! >> Hi, Lieve! I had forgotten it was Mags' idea. Thanks, Mags! It is great to see you on the list again, Lieve. Lucky Kerry for being able to have such great adventures in Great Britain. It really is nice to know that if I can ever afford to travel again there are friends of spirit everywhere on this marbled bowling ball, to paraphrase Herself! XO, - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:57:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? I hadn't ever thought about this before, but yes, I see the same images in my head for each song I hear. Sometimes I am there, but mostly I'm not. It's like watching a little movie - some scenes shot with a wide-angle, some close-up. Sometimes they grow and change over time when I learn or hear something new. Like now when I hear 'For the Roses' I see Joni sitting in her cabin knitting away. Lucy your images are so vivid and your descriptions so apt and well-written (no surprise there). It's fascinating...I'll have to pay more attention - the process for me (and most I suspect) is just below the level of consciousness. Jenny Lucy Hone wrote: Every time I listen to certain Joni songs I get the same mental pictures in my head.... and I am right in them. Every time. The pictures do not alter, and have not done so for years. For Example.. Peoples Parties. I am sitting on the floor looking across a room. I have my back to a chair arm, it is a large leather chair, chunky, 1930's 40's like a big arm chair you find the foyer of a big hotel... and it is slightly tatty. The room has a sort of Edward Hopper feel to the lighting.. Somehow dense and airless. There is a half open window, but no breeze, and the pale cream curtains hang down over slatted blinds. There is a low wooden coffee table ahead of me and on the other side of it a long low leather sofa. I have a view of knees and cocktail dresses and shoes. The faces of the people are always hidden from me but I imagine the men as urbane, aloof, the women trying to be cool but clamouring for attention. Harold Pinter would frame it all in silences of the most meaningful type. Brittle laughter, fingers describing ideas in the smokey air, quietly someone is making arrangements for secret meeting, and out of sight is the booming slam of waves onto a sandy beach. It is always the same vision and sense of being elsewhere. Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire has me hiding under a metal fire escape on a wet night. There are rubbish bags and bins and there is always a feeling of cold that clings that makes me want to pull my coat around me. Broken glass, and dogs roaming and a landscape that alters only as I climb the fire escape and peer into the room where people are out of it, on matresses. "Barangrill" IS an Edward Hopper painting called Night Hawks.(i think). The waitress, the people staring into coffees and the solid slab of light smacking the pavement and the rest of the world invisible behind its brightness... "Urge for Going", has me standing out on a jetty looking back towards a town (you would probably do best to think of New England... for the Brits think Western HIghlands of Scotland).. its all inlets and lakes and rocky bits and pine trees, and houses that seem to crowd about, and cling to the fabric of the land around them... "Carey" is a room full of light with a view over the ocean in somewhere like Cadiz in Spain. somewhere a bit tumbledown and a bit in need of love, but the views are spectacular and the air warm. And so it goes. Those are just a few but they always remain fixed... What pictorial sensations do you get from our Joni? I dont often post about Joni related things.... I came to this realisation (oddly enough) listening to "Graceland" by Paul Simon and realising that the opening bars of that song and the opening words remind me, every time, of a hill in France that over looks the Baie de Mont St Michel where, in the low tide mud, there are wonderful meanering streams and when the sun is shining its like a huge river delta.... "Shining like a national guitar". Makes the hairs stand up on my arms thinking about it... Lucy Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:03:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: You brush against a stranger... So I'm in the supermarket trying to block out the insipid pop music blaring through the loudspeakers (it's supposed to make me want to shop, but really it's stimulating my urge to run far far away). I've relegated it to background noise but the following lyrics jump out at me... 'You brush against a stranger and you both apologize'. Huh? Is this some horrid cover of 'Down to You'? I listen more... Nope. It's something entirely different and try as I may to memorize some additional lyrics to bring them to the list, they are so nondescript and cliche I cannot hold them my brain. Has anyone heard this song? Know who it is? It's female singer - kind of an Amy Grant sound. Did she/they rip off a Joni lyric? I wonder. Jenny Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:11:14 +0100 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: RE: (NJC) Book Swap List and a general Hello! and some Kerry news You know you're always welcome, Bob! But pity you had to quote me on that line, because I was already embarrassed enough when I originally saw my missing apostrophe after "Mags"! I spotted some other typos but this was the one that bothered me most... ;-) LOL Lieve. - -----Original Message----- From: Smurfycopy@aol.com [mailto:Smurfycopy@aol.com] Sent: 20 April 2004 15:15 To: ReckersL@ebrd.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: (NJC) Book Swap List and a general Hello! and some Kerry news Lieve writes: << the swap was originally Mags idea, credit to where it belongs! >> Hi, Lieve! I had forgotten it was Mags' idea. Thanks, Mags! It is great to see you on the list again, Lieve. Lucky Kerry for being able to have such great adventures in Great Britain. It really is nice to know that if I can ever afford to travel again there are friends of spirit everywhere on this marbled bowling ball, to paraphrase Herself! XO, - --Bob EBRD SECURITY NOTICE This email has been virus scanned ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:22:36 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger... <> found this on the internet, which may be the offending song. from the rest of the lyrics, i'm thinking the line was plagarized, sho' nuff! cindy ________________________________________________________________ _ Texas "When we are together" oh, I remember you said can I fight and breathe so now I always, always hold my breath you see you're my heaven, you're my spaceman in your shiny shiny suit I'll send up all my prayers and hope they're understood love started making sense I always make mistakes at my expense love has placed a seed and you're the sun that shines down upon me yeh when we are together and when we are apart there is no space in our hearts I've got these feelings it's been too long since I've tried to take the time so now I'm fallin', fallin' into the sublime when you brush against a stranger and you both apologise and when you see there's something you recognise love started making sense I always make mistakes at my expense love has placed a seed and you're the sun that shines down upon me yeh when we are together and when we are apart there is no space in our hearts I've got these feelings yeh when we are together and when we are apart there is no space in our hearts I've got these feelings yeh when we are together and when we are apart there is no space in our hearts I've got these feelings yeh when we are together and when we are apart there is no space in our hearts I've got these feelings yeh when we are together and when we are apart there is no space in our hearts I've got these feelings ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:22:25 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Mags' missing apostrophe Lieve writes: << But pity you had to quote me on that line, because I was already embarrassed enough when I originally saw my missing apostrophe after "Mags"! >> I hadn't even noticed that you were missing an apostrophe, Lieve! As, you may have, noticed I have, a major problem, with commas although my period, is usually pretty dependable. XO, - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:26:54 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: (NJC) Tom Robbins Wally Kairuz wrote: > > debra!!!!! this was glorious! can we request other authors? > wally, AMAZED Yes, Wally, request away! Except I can't promise I'll be "doing" them... the "bug" has to hit just right, but I am curious about which authors you'd request. Charles Dickens (and memories of all his books that I read and loved years ago) has been tickling me the last few days... Debra Shea, in NYC with lots to get done today and where that horrible greedy Bush person is coming to grab more money and tie up traffic and generally make every New Yorker's life difficult. Really, doesn't he have enough money yet? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:27:18 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger... Hiya Jenny, It looks like what you heard was a song called "When We Are Together" by a group called Texas. Interestingly enough, the song contains these two lines: "I'll send up all my prayers and hope they're understood" "When you brush against a stranger And you both apologise" Pretty strong Joni 'influence', I'd say. Bob NP: Santana, "Soul Sacrifice" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:28:31 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: yeats njc richard> Speaking of Joni adaptations of other people's texts--and you gotta admit she has brass----well, nerve, anyway to take on some of the greatest poetry of the ages: Book of Job, Yeats's "The Second Coming"--which brings me to what I was gonna say. A couple of weeks back on another listserv I belong to-- the UB Poetics list someone sent the text of the Yeats poem--only it was Joni's lyrics. I do have to say that while it makes a pretty good song, the adaptation suffers as poetry compared to the real poem.< i'd forgotten joni had used yeats in a song... i recently received a detailed family tree that went back to the area of ireland where yeats apparently did some of his writing... & discovered that he wrote near & about a castle that had once belonged to my great great great, etc... grandfather... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:32:42 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger... Cindy writes: << found this on the internet, which may be the offending song. from the rest of the lyrics, i'm thinking the line was plagarized, sho' nuff! >> But if Joni is a poet, wouldn't that be an allusion to her great poem, "Down to You," rather than plagiarism? Just wonderin' how far I can go with this poetry business, sorta like Icarus ascending . . . - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:42:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? Hi all, I have enjoyed this thread so far..been interesting to read. While I get lots of visuals and mental image flashes from the JM stuff I'm familiar with (yes guilty as charged, early 70's stuff back) I don't ever see *myself* in there, per se..EXCEPT with a groovy little song that I've always loved so much, and which is pure candy. And that would be "Ladies of the Canyon". Dang I love that portrait! Love those women! ANyone know who they are?? Are they specific people?? Industry guys' wives/old ladies/hippy mammas perhaps? Anyway, with this song I am very much transported as myself to the interior of an alternative dwelling on a hillside, lots of natural wood furniture, lots of batik and other wall hangings..particulalrly well done tie -dye and some paisley kinds of stuff. lets see, mucho patchouli, herbal tea, the other kind of tea, you know "tea tea tea tea - to make you free" as Donovan wrote... anyway... I lurv these ladies for some reason and can perfectly well put myself right in that little scenario. OK had to share again...sorry..can't seem to stifle. Can even picture climbing banyans... :) Em reminds me like on 6 Feet Under, their mom's sister who is/was I imagine a sort of "Canyon Lady" tho severely wasted... - --- Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > I hadn't ever thought about this before, but yes, I see the same > images in my head for each song I hear. Sometimes I am there, but > mostly I'm not. It's like watching a little movie - some scenes shot > with a wide-angle, some close-up. Sometimes they grow and change > over time when I learn or hear something new. Like now when I hear > 'For the Roses' I see Joni sitting in her cabin knitting away. > > Lucy your images are so vivid and your descriptions so apt and > well-written (no surprise there). It's fascinating...I'll have to > pay more attention - the process for me (and most I suspect) is just > below the level of consciousness. > > Jenny > > > Lucy Hone wrote: > Every time I listen to certain Joni songs I get the same mental > pictures in my > head.... and I am right in them. Every time. The pictures do not > alter, and > have not done so for years. > > For Example.. Peoples Parties. > > I am sitting on the floor looking across a room. I have my back to a > chair > arm, it is a large leather chair, chunky, 1930's 40's like a big arm > chair you > find the foyer of a big hotel... and it is slightly tatty. The room > has a sort > of Edward Hopper feel to the lighting.. Somehow dense and airless. > There is a > half open window, but no breeze, and the pale cream curtains hang > down over > slatted blinds. There is a low wooden coffee table ahead of me and on > the > other side of it a long low leather sofa. I have a view of knees and > cocktail > dresses and shoes. The faces of the people are always hidden from me > but I > imagine the men as urbane, aloof, the women trying to be cool but > clamouring > for attention. Harold Pinter would frame it all in silences of the > most > meaningful type. Brittle laughter, fingers describing ideas in the > smokey air, > quietly someone is making arrangements for secret meeting, and out of > sight is > the booming slam of waves onto a sandy beach. > > It is always the same vision and sense of being elsewhere. > > Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire has me hiding under a metal fire > escape on a > wet night. There are rubbish bags and bins and there is always a > feeling of > cold that clings that makes me want to pull my coat around me. Broken > glass, > and dogs roaming and a landscape that alters only as I climb the fire > escape > and peer into the room where people are out of it, on matresses. > > "Barangrill" IS an Edward Hopper painting called Night Hawks.(i > think). The > waitress, the people staring into coffees and the solid slab of light > smacking > the pavement and the rest of the world invisible behind its > brightness... > > "Urge for Going", has me standing out on a jetty looking back towards > a town > (you would probably do best to think of New England... for the Brits > think > Western HIghlands of Scotland).. its all inlets and lakes and rocky > bits and > pine trees, and houses that seem to crowd about, and cling to the > fabric of > the land around them... > > "Carey" is a room full of light with a view over the ocean in > somewhere like > Cadiz in Spain. somewhere a bit tumbledown and a bit in need of love, > but the > views are spectacular and the air warm. > > And so it goes. Those are just a few but they always remain fixed... > > What pictorial sensations do you get from our Joni? > > I dont often post about Joni related things.... I came to this > realisation > (oddly enough) listening to "Graceland" by Paul Simon and realising > that the > opening bars of that song and the opening words remind me, every > time, of a > hill in France that over looks the Baie de Mont St Michel where, in > the low > tide mud, there are wonderful meanering streams and when the sun is > shining > its like a huge river delta.... "Shining like a national guitar". > Makes the > hairs stand up on my arms thinking about it... > > Lucy > Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:42:47 -0400 (EDT) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger... Sharp ears, Jenny. Sharp eyes, Cynthia. Joni may very well have a copyright violation case here. Are you listening, Joni???? Jerry Quoting Cynthia Vickery : > < singer - kind of an Amy Grant sound. Did she/they rip off a Joni > lyric?>> > > > found this on the internet, which may be the offending song. > from the rest of the lyrics, i'm thinking the line was > plagarized, sho' nuff! > > cindy > > ________________________________________________________________ > _ > > > Texas > > "When we are together" > > oh, I remember you said can I fight and breathe > so now I always, always hold my breath you see > you're my heaven, you're my spaceman in your shiny shiny suit > I'll send up all my prayers and hope they're understood > > love started making sense > I always make mistakes at my expense > love has placed a seed > and you're the sun that shines down upon me > > yeh when we are together > and when we are apart > there is no space in our hearts > I've got these feelings > > it's been too long since I've tried to take the time > so now I'm fallin', fallin' into the sublime > when you brush against a stranger > and you both apologise > and when you see there's something you recognise > > love started making sense > I always make mistakes at my expense > love has placed a seed > and you're the sun that shines down upon me > > yeh when we are together > and when we are apart > there is no space in our hearts > I've got these feelings > > yeh when we are together > and when we are apart > there is no space in our hearts > I've got these feelings > > yeh when we are together > and when we are apart > there is no space in our hearts > I've got these feelings > > yeh when we are together > and when we are apart > there is no space in our hearts > I've got these feelings > > yeh when we are together > and when we are apart > there is no space in our hearts > I've got these feelings ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:49:13 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, Jimmy Carter -- a "Peace President" Oh, if only Jimmy Carter were in the White House NOW! I keep this quote on my desk at work; it's from a graduation address he gave at Trinity College in Hartford (CT) a few years ago..... "Graduating from college is a turning point. It's a time of unprecedented freedom to make choices about life. I think we're faced in these modern days with the same choice that existed 2,000 years ago. The people of Corinth asked St. Paul, "What is the most important thing in life?"....St. Paul gave them an answer that was hard to understand...."the things you cannot see" are the most important. What are the things you cannot see? You can see a bank account. Is that important? You can see a beautiful house. You can see your name in the paper. But you can't see justice. You can't see peace. You can't see service and humility and compassion. Those are the important things. And there was one more thing that Paul mentioned, and that is love." And what choice has GWB made? War. We are on a "war footing." He is a self-procaimed "war president." War is NOT the answer to the problems in the world. You can kill people, but you can't kill ideas. Kate and Sherelle, my heart goes out to you, having family members over there. May they come home safe, and SOON! My beloved son almost joined the Air National Guard last year and I fought that with every ounce of passion in my being (oh yes, i shook my fists at lightning and roared like forest fire!). I thank God every day that he reconsidered, remained in school, and is now looking into joining the Peace Corps. With prayers for peace, Patti _________________________________________________________________ Lose those love handles! MSN Fitness shows you two moves to slim your waist. http://fitness.msn.com/articles/feeds/article.aspx?dept=exercise&article=et_pv_030104_lovehandles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:51:37 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: icu njc colin, i am so sorry...my prayers for your health going out & up! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:57:35 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: mary gauthier njc ron> ps - is anyone out there as impressed with mary as i am? i would have thought her songwriting would be hugely popular on this list. kind of a cross between lucinda williams & giselle hawkins with lyrics that can bring tears to my eyes just reading them. wonderful way of expressing herself, and an honesty in her writing that i havent heard since, well, stryngs :-)< yes! i love mary gauthier! haven't heard her recent cd yet but have her others & have seen her in concert a few times & talked a little to her... she's a very sweet person... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:59:40 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? Em asks: << ANyone know who they are?? Are they specific people?? >> Check this out: http://www.ladiesofthecanyon.com/book.htm Don't know if anyone here has read it yet. I think Kakki once said she was going to order it. - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:17:07 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Bush-NJC maybe when the USA stops butting in. wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Suzanne > MarcAurele > Enviado el: Martes, 20 de Abril de 2004 10:03 a.m. > Para: joni-digest@smoe.org > Asunto: Bush-NJC > > I just wonder when outsiders will concentrate on making their countries > global friendly instead of thinking the USA is the cause for the > tyranny and > poverty in their countries - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:18:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? Smurf wrote: > Check this out: > > http://www.ladiesofthecanyon.com/book.htm > > Don't know if anyone here has read it yet. I think Kakki once said > she was > going to order it. Wow! I feel I must order this! I bet its a fun read. Although, in having looked at the photo of the 5 women (these 5 in the book) I felt they were a little "mainstream" in appearance compared to what I imagine in the song. But what the heck; who knows? Thanks for that, Smurf. Not sure if I will order, but I'm thinking I will. :D Em ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:10:33 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words Well, Joni's lifted from a couple of outside sources as well, Camus & Nietschze immediately come to mind. She better just keep shushed about it. Those Burundi drummers may show up looking for some hefty royalties too. Bob NP: Santana, "Africa Bamba" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #180 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)