From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #178 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, April 19 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 178 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- An astute view of Bush? njc [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Connecting the Dots - and Trying out new songs in concert [SCJoniGuy@] American Masters - Balanchine [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni loves me songs:) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Smug Americans, NJC - LONG ["Bree Mcdonough" ] icu njc ["tantra_apso" ] Re: Next marketing gimmick for Joni ["J.David Sapp" ] It's a Small, Small World [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] RE: NJC W's press conference PC ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Next marketing gimmick for Joni/Bob's tunes NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] re: next marketing gimmick for Joni ["mia ortlieb" ] Re: An astute view of Bush? njc [Randy Remote ] Re: NJC W's Press conference - now why i decided not to vote ["ron" ] after reading kate's post [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: after reading kate's post [Em ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:22:41 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: An astute view of Bush? njc This is the concluding paragraph of a piece in today's Guardian, which speaks for itself. The link for the whole article is below... Azeem in London "For years it has been my belief that the ideal US president for Middle East peace would be one who had the ethics of a Carter, the popularity of a Reagan and the strategic audacity of a Nixon. Alas, we have a president who has the ethics of a Nixon, the popularity of a Carter and the intellectual agility of a Reagan." 7 Afif Safieh is the Palestinian General Delegate to the UK and the Holy See http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1194704,00.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:27:35 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Connecting the Dots - and Trying out new songs in concert **my perception is that Joni's typical "art first, commerce second" approach in this area was relatively rare. Do you all agree ?** I don't find it particularly noteworthy, Bob...most artists who are in "heavy growth mode" as Joni was at that time will keep their creative juices flowing and will use the road to try out and test new material. I would venture to say that of the many concerts I've attended, about half featured a comment by the artist saying that they were going to play some new songs. Not that they were Joni-quality songs, mind you, but new nonetheless. I think it would be a perk of being on tour that you get to see some honest response to work that hasn't been previously heard. Plus, Joni's always been more excited about what was on the horizon for her, not what was behind her, so she would probably have a penchant for playing new stuff moreso than the average artist. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:11:54 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: American Masters - Balanchine I hope you all getting a chance to watch the 3other2 episodes of the American Masters series on PBS. Last night was one of my favorite artistic geniuses, and the greatest choreographer of all time, George Balanchine. Like Joni, he loved cats, and Stravinsky, It was the best film on him I have seen since Dancing for Mr. B. He said something so poignant: We do not create. God creates. We merely assemble; and make the right choices; and work very hard. Jerry np: Jimmy Scott - At Last ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:16:56 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni loves me songs:) > Nuriel wants to know: > >> What song makes you feel that Joni loves you? I For me it has always been Woodstock. Jerry np: Betty Buckley - Infinite Joy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:45:18 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Smug Americans, NJC - LONG After reading every post on Bush..Iraq..smugness... I have been debating what to do here. Just what should I do? I've been told my attitude is ugly even!? Conclusion: and after careful consideration......... I'm not bringing any blanking buckeyes to the fest.... forget it! well except for Laura..and Buck....a few others. (My Mack's, I'll send in the mail) "Let them eat tofu" Just kidding!! Later in the day I'll will respond to a few POV. (I'm just getting home after working a long stretch..since Saturday afternoon) off to my fencing lesson.. ;-) Bree >From: Lori Fye >To: LCStanley7@aol.com >CC: joni@smoe.org, bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com >Subject: Re: Smug Americans, NJC - LONG >Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:55:06 -0700 > >Laura wrote to me: > > > This struck me as funny... it is as if there is another person to >blame > > for 9/11... Bree?!... a "smug" American who doesn't care what the rest >of the > > world thinks. I don't like the blame game at all. The people who were > > behind 9/11 were crazy murderers... period. They hit the WORLD trade >center > > and in essence affected many countries in doing so. I think we do need >to > > take a look at how we can improve ourselves on all levels, but that is > > ongoing regardless of Iraq or the world. > >That darn Bree is always making trouble, I tell you! NOT. > >I think Bree knows that, regardless that we're two lesbians of otherwise >different political tribes, I have the highest regard for her and her right >to >believe what she believes. At least I HOPE Bree know this -- and Bree, if >you >didn't know that, I'm telling you NOW! : ) > >I've been meaning to respond to your post, Laura, and have been thinking >about >it. I didn't mean to imply that 9/11 was BREE's fault because she *may* >(or >may not) be an example of an American who doesn't care what the world >thinks. >She wrote that she doesn't care, but I'm not sure she didn't mean she >doesn't >care what people on the JMDL think. > >No, 9/11 was ultimately the fault of the people who decided to pilot those >planes into the WTC, Pentagon, and the field near Shanksville, and the >people >who helped plan and fund the attacks. The U.S. surely could've done better >with its intelligence, but other than to ground all commercial aircraft and >do >flyovers of the suspected targets, I really don't see how we could've >prevented >the attack. We're humans, afterall, and we make errors -- and I'll even >cut >Bush some slack on that count. I don't like all the finger-pointing that's >going on right now in the way of the commission and its hearings, either. >9/11 >widows aside -- and I do feel for them and applaud their courage in >demanding >answers -- it just smacks too much of point-scoring during the presidential >campaign. No one is going to win. The best we can do is to learn what >went >wrong, for ALL sides and agencies (and individual persons, in some cases) >to >accept that they failed to pass along the information they had as soon as >they >had it, and to fix the system. It's a tough road to travel, because it's a >bureaucracy and there are so many egos involved. What people need to >remember >is that there are also SO MANY LIVES involved too. > >But back to American "smugness." Americans are perceived by so many people >in >the world -- not just terrorists but peaceful people too -- as having an >attitude that we just don't give a flying f*ck about anyone else's culture >or >religion or depth of poverty or anything that doesn't affect us personally. >It's part of the "ugly American" image that may or may not be deserved but >which does exist. > >We seem to be so consumed with how much money we can make, how convenient >our >lives can be, how entertained we are -- at all times and at all costs to >anyone >else. Maybe that's not true of everyone in the U.S., but I think it's how >we're PERCEIVED. We have these amazing rights to free speech and >expression, >and we push the envelope on those to the absolute max. I'm not saying we >should change that -- for example, I dislike the porn industry and the way >it >exploits EVERYONE connected with it, but I am loathe to tell porn producers >they can't express their "art" as they do. But we need to consider that >other >people in the world believe we should be DAMNED for just walking around >with >our heads uncovered, nevermind that we're selling tits and ass on video to >anyone who will buy it. I'm not saying we need to apologize for that, but >we >should at least CONSIDER and REMEMBER that they are very, very offended. >And >okay, maybe they're envious too. It's possible. I'm sure there are as >many >"reasons" to hate Americans as they are people who feel that way. > >But if nothing else, we need the rest of world's peoples to know that we're >sensitive to their beliefs and wishes, and at least try to come to some >understanding with them (whoever "them" is). Maybe that will require some >compromises -- gee, what a concept! I'm not even sure what those >compromises >would be, but somehow we've got to get the message across that we can help >them >to have a better life WITHOUT making Westerners or Christians out of them. >We >have to say, "We honor you, and we would hope you would honor us," and we >have >to MEAN it when we say it. But we can't say "We honor you" and then go >over >and take their oil or other resources and tell them that not only is >democracy >the "best" way but they have to run their country like ours too. > >The problem for me is that, right now more than at any other time, the U.S. >as a >nation seems as if we just don't care what the rest of the world thinks, >and >that CAN'T be a good thing. We have something like 5% of the people on the >planet, but we use WAY more than our fair share of its resources. And we >don't >seem to care. We seem to be saying, "It's my way or the highway," and I'm >sorry, but it can't be that way. We need to take those lessons we learned >in >kindergarten and SHARE and BE KIND. Yes, even when "they" haven't been >kind to >us. > >Ah feck ... I'm rambling and just going around in circles. The whole thing >always comes down to this: "You must believe as I do." Every single time. > On >all sides. Christian zealots are trying to "save" me from going to hell >because I love and live with a woman. Muslim zealots are trying to kill me >because I'm an "infidel." The Palestinians and Jews have been fighting for >thousands of years over a piece of desert, and I'll NEVER understand that. >(I >can understand fighting over a piece of DESSERT, but sand?) : ) > >Maybe it's like JMDLer Fred Simon writes from time to time: > >You say falafel, I say falafel >You say salaam, I say shalom >Falafel, falafel >Salaam, Shalom >Let's blow the whole thing up! > >and there's nothing we can do. > >As for me, though, I'm going to TRY to not fall down in the ditch with the >lowest common denominator, and TRY to live peacefully and respectfully with >everyone I can. And if I get blown up in the process, or shot down on the >street, well ... maybe it's just that my time was up. > >Lori, >tired of all of it _________________________________________________________________ From must-see cities to the best beaches, plan a getaway with the Spring Travel Guide! http://special.msn.com/local/springtravel.armx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:15:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Joni loves me songs:) - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > I > For me it has always been Woodstock. Hi Jerry, I thought and thought about this one, and "Woodstock" was the only one I could come up with too. If she would just at least confer "child of god" status upon me I would be more than grateful. Because my great impression is she only has any real use for men. ::shrug:: dunno if that's really so... Em ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:42:41 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: icu njc I just got home from spending the night in the icu of my local hospital. It seems I have a another problem with my heart on top of the angina. I ahve complained for the last 10 years of this 'fluttering' in my chest. Unfortunately, doctors are no different to anyone else when it comes to harbouring prejudice towards people who have or have had metnal health issues. As a result my complaints were ignored and put down to 'stress' or 'neurosis'. This happeend 20 years when i complaine dof feeling sick and tired all the time. Eventually I moved and went to see a gp before they ahd a chance to see my health record. i was admitted to Kings College the follwing day with chronic liver disease. Anyway, this time the 'fluttering' in my chest continued and they had proof positive I was not being paranoid. The problem showed on my ecg-in fact the tech was able to ell me when it was happening. It is an electrical problem. I don't know what happens now except I have to wear a 'box' for a few days which will monitor my heart. The feeling I ahd of my heart stopping and then starting rapidly again was not my imagination-it has something to do with the pace maker (the one in my heart not an implant) mis firing and missing a beat and then catching up. I now need to go bed. ICU or any ward, is just not a good place for anyone sick or stressed. they are so noisy and hectic you get no sleep-especially when you have a n elderly haert patient, also metally challenged, in the bed next to you who is either shouting all night or spends 30 mins farting into her commode. poor lady. certainly lets you know things could be worse doesn't it? I am becoming quite a medic. the man in the bed nextdoor was describing his 'acid' attack. i know about those and knew he was not having acid but a heart attack. Later, when he repeated story to dr the dr agreeed with me!;-) bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:02:52 -0500 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: Next marketing gimmick for Joni For the record Joni is listed as the producer for Wild Things - she and Klein became romantically involved during the recording of the album. She had obviously chosen a new direction for that project because she replaced a yet still living Jaco with Klein. Boggles the mind. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:03:10 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Next marketing gimmick for Joni **Great song, but putting it on Hits felt like a slap in my face for some reason -- maybe because it hadn't been a true "hit" for Joni and adding it to the disc WAS just a gimmick.** It would have been a much better idea for Joni to assemble & release an "Anthology" or better yet a boxset like her buddies CSNY did. I can understand her point in not wanting to negatively impact sales of her early albums, and by the same token I can understand Reprise wanting a 'collection' type release. Joni does have lots of fans like us who will seek out all of her releases, but there are also "fringe" fans who grew up with Joni's songs on the radio and would not buy 5-6 cd's of hers but would buy a CD that compiles her best-known works, even if our familiarity with the song is through another singer. To that end, 'Hits' does a good job, and like you say, it is to date the only commercial release of Urge For Going on CD, to entice the completists, just as the Geffen release was lightly peppered with 3 bonus tracks. (Albeit a much pricier pepper!) And of course, using the term "hits" when discussing Joni's work is dubious at best, and she's the first to admit it. While she got her fair share of airplay, she had a grand total of ONE single to break Billboard's top 20. So a collection of Joni's "true hits" would be nothing more than a cd-single of "Help Me", unless you stretch the definitions which she & Reprise did. Her albums have fared much better, as well they should as she is an album artist rather than a singles artist. Furthermore, Joni has more or less followed her own direction rather than being market-driven, so the hits eluded her not because of the quality of her work, but rather due to the quality (or lack thereof) of the markets she was working in. As for BSN & T'log diluting her career catalogue, it's all opinion. In mine, her catalogue would be stronger without them, but I'm not one of those that would pay to hear her sing the phonebook or anything like that. I think she established extremely high parameters for her work and then lowered that bar significantly with these last two. Bob NP: Linda Ronstadt, "Willin'" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:12:27 -0400 From: "jlobello" Subject: Leaving for now Les and everyone I will be moving to Bellingham, WA on April 22nd. So, I'm temporarily dropping out of the group until I get settled in my new home. Individuals can contact me at my hotmail address: jonlobello@hotmail.com. Until later, Jono ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:25:18 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: It's a Small, Small World Saturday morning, the phone rang and it was Rachel's mom saying that she and Rachel were at the Topsfield high school for a band competition! Of all places in the world, I could not believe they were in Topsfield!! So, I met them later on that night for a few hours, and it was SO great to catch up with them. They both looked great, and it was such a pleasant surprise to have them in my neck of the woods all the way from Hamilton, Ontario. They assured me that the family would be at Jonifest this year. So, those of you that might need some violin accompaniment might want to start sending music her way. YAY!! It's a small world indeed. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:51:48 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE: NJC W's press conference PC Hi Kate and all, My niece is over in Iraq right now as well. She had to leave her infant son behind for six months. It is very hard for me to watch the evening news concerning the war in Iraq. It seems like things just keep getting worse and worse for the US. It breaks my heart. I'm proud to be American and now it appears that is something taboo. All of you know that I usually stay very far away from political conversations but I must share my feelings about this one. I have been reading the posts of both the Bush supporters and Bush detractors and I must share my feelings on the president. When GWB first decided to run for office, something deep in my soul and spirit frightened me. I had been watching the string of Texas executions that had been carried out by the prison system and GWB's attitude as to whether these men lived or died. It wasn't the fact that he said no, to me, it was "how" he said no. When he announced his run for the presidency, the first thought that popped into my head was, "he's going to get us into a war". I had no information or prejudice...just a feeling. I had no problem with his father either, so it was not a family thing. ( I just wished secretly that Barbara would tint her hair a little so she would look a little younger...sorry!) To answer someone's question about why the negative feelingS about GWB, I'd have to honestly tell you that except for my gut feeling and intuition, I really don't know. I just know that things are not what they seem with him. I know this is true with most politicians, but my heart is telling me that this is especially with him. And please believe me that I have tried and continue to try to give GWB every benefit of the doubt. I don't mean to offend anyone who supports GWB, I'm just telling you what's in my heart. he is the Commander in Chief for at least ten of my family members. Something deep within is and has always been uncomfortable with this president. For me, only time will truly tell. Now I will step back out of the political hotbed and go on. It's just that this is personal for me like it is for Kate because I have family over there and I'm not really sure why my niece has to be put at risk. I've learned that trying to save someone who doesn't want to be saved only blows up in one's face. It seems to me that we've gotten ourselves into a jam with the Iraqi people that we can't get out of and it's costing us the lives of our countrymen. But you know what? No matter how wrong this war is, these men and women are going to stay there and see it through because of their hearts. They are going to endure the camel spiders ( have you seen pictures of these creatures?) the boils from the sand flies, the heat and any other pestilence coming their way. If you believe in the power of prayer, please pray for them to get through this ordeal. If you don't, then please send them your positive energy and good thoughts because they really need it right now. I frankly don't care anymore about the why's and where-for's; I just want this to end and I want our troops out of their and back home where they belong. Thanks for hearing me out. Love, Sherelle Kate wrote: if more people knew what it feels like to worry if their loved one was going to live or die & for what reason, well maybe they would begin to question this f@#$ing war _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page  FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:58:40 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Smug Americans, NJC - LONG Lori wrote: >> It's a tough road to travel, because it's a bureaucracy and there are so many egos involved. What people need to remember is that there are also SO MANY LIVES involved too. You hit the nail on the head here Lori! >>But back to American "smugness." Americans are perceived by so many people in the world -- not just terrorists but peaceful people too -- as having an attitude that we just don't give a flying f*ck about anyone else's culture or religion or depth of poverty or anything that doesn't affect us personally. I'm in a religious community where we are encouraged to take our vacation in a third world country to get an idea of what life is like for people we tend to be ignorant about. The depth of poverty in other parts of the world, and even in places like the Arkansas delta is really unbelievable... unbelievable! Wasn't it Ghandi who said we should, "live simply so that others simply might live?" I'm all for humanity moving forward, progressing in technology and ease of living... but we've got to remember those who are truly getting left behind in this false rapture we sometimes create. >> We seem to be so consumed with how much money we can make, how convenient our lives can be, how entertained we are -- at all times and at all costs to anyone else. Maybe that's not true of everyone in the U.S., but I think it's how we're PERCEIVED. If I was looking up from the muddy floor of my tin house where the only source of water was a dirty spill way, and the flies laying maggots in my open wounds, removing the necrotic tissue, was the only source of healing I was experiencing, I might feel the same way. I have a godchild in Guatemala, and I'm instructed not to send him pictures of my house, my car, my nice things... just pictures of me, and to not dress up in these pictures. That has always perplexed me as instruction coming from a relief agency. Sometimes I feel angry when a waiter or a person at the window of a fast food restaurant doesn't treat me like I "ought" to be treated or gets my order wrong. At times like these, I think this perception you mention here Lori is accurate. I don't feel guilty for "having" things, but I do feel bad when I don't share what I have or when I find myself expecting the royal treatment and sulking or complaining when I don't get it. >> ....I am loathe to tell porn producers they can't express their "art" as they do. I agree, as long as they aren't exploiting people, especially children and women, and as long as they don't broadcast it so I lose my freedom not to see it. >> But we need to consider that other people in the world believe we should be DAMNED for just walking around with our heads uncovered, nevermind that we're selling tits and ass on video to anyone who will buy it. Oh, and shorts... these are very offensive to people in some countries I've heard. We don't mean to offend and sometimes have no idea we are. >> I'm not saying we need to apologize for that, but we should at least CONSIDER and REMEMBER that they are very, very offended. And okay, maybe they're envious too. I agree. Yes, we've got to remember people's sacred cows, especially if we are in the homelands of the people we might offend. Now, in my opinion, if they come to our country, they'd better put up or go home if they can't handle it. >> But if nothing else, we need the rest of world's peoples to know that we're sensitive to their beliefs and wishes, and at least try to come to some understanding with them (whoever "them" is). I agree, but I also think we need to do so without losing our own identity. We need to be who we are and do so compassionately, or we will never see people dropping their guards and becoming more open-minded toward us. Its the way of living in this multicultural society... "Live and let live" can and does work to a great degree in this country already. Now, that is not to say we shouldn't speak loudly at times in order to be heard. >> Maybe that will require some compromises -- gee, what a concept! I'm not even sure what those compromises would be, I think this country, within our own boundaries, is the perfect model of compromising to foster an atmosphere of tolerance... not perfect by far, but it is rather comical here in Arkansas how tolerance is so obvious when you stop at an intersection and see a Baptist church on one corner, Methodist on another, and a synogue next to a Catholic church across the street... and no guns or barbed wire separating the people of these different belief systems. Or you go to Wal-Mart, like I did yesterday, and see women in saris, some with their heads and faces covered as well as women in halter tops and shorts. This idea of compromise and tolerance is the reason we are so great as a nation and is the reason why blacks are free, women can vote, and gays are eventually going to get more rights and respect. It takes time, but we do have a pattern of history that brings about change for the better. I have a long gratitude list in regard to being an American, for freedom, especially since my ancestory comes from small countries that were oppressed by communist rule. >> but somehow we've got to get the message across that we can help them to have a better life WITHOUT making Westerners or Christians out of them. Exactly! This is just what Mother Theresa did in India. >> We have to say, "We honor you, and we would hope you would honor us," and we have to MEAN it when we say it. Yes, honor and respect for people who are different than we are is vital. And, it is icing on the cake if they honor us back. >> But we can't say "We honor you" and then go over and take their oil or other resources and tell them that not only is democracy the "best" way but they have to run their country like ours too. This sounds like codependency. This fix-it mentality usually only serves to build up resentment and doesn't work. >> The problem for me is that, right now more than at any other time, the U.S. as a nation seems as if we just don't care what the rest of the world thinks, and that CAN'T be a good thing. Does this happen to be because of the war, because we didn't listen? This uncaring attitude might be on the front pages and be the mindset of those with the loudest voices at present, but it isn't the view of many Americans who will eventually be heard and prevail. I do have hope that we will learn from the mistake, from the way this war came about. >> We need to take those lessons we learned in kindergarten and SHARE and BE KIND. Yes, even when "they" haven't been kind to us. For sure! Like Robert Fulgum's book, All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten. One of my favorites! We also need to protect our children from bullies... but we don't have to go being a bully ourselves. >> Christian zealots are trying to "save" me from going to hell because I love and live with a woman. Let me at um! Wink! No, seriously, I know some of these. I ate dinner with one the other night. I could have thrown his trash back in his face, but then he wouldn't have heard a thing I said. Instead, I sort of did the motherly "there, there" thing with him and later in the conversation slipped in that I'm for gays having rights. >> Muslim zealots are trying to kill me because I'm an "infidel." Better take off those shorts and halter top and put a lampshade on your head and wrap a curtain around you. "While Muslims stick up Washington..." >> The Palestinians and Jews have been fighting for thousands of years over a piece of desert, and I'll NEVER understand that. (I can understand fighting over a piece of DESSERT, but sand?) : ) One brother wants what the other has... I saw it last night in my own household. I gave my 6 year old my 12 year old's land (his old bedroom), and moved my 12 year old to a new kingdom (the guest room) the 6 year old couldn't get out of his mind. He failed to see the land he had been given because he just wanted his brother's land which he thought was his own land by right because he didn't have any land to start with. Go figure?! >> Shalom Let's blow the whole thing up! Thank God for locked doors! At least that is how I'm handling it with my kids. >> and there's nothing we can do. No, I disagree here... there is something we can do, always. We've just got to not give up, and not blow up in response to insanity, not catch it ourselves. >> As for me, though, I'm going to TRY to not fall down in the ditch with the lowest common denominator, and TRY to live peacefully and respectfully with everyone I can. And if I get blown up in the process, or shot down on the street, well ... maybe it's just that my time was up. Good for you Lori! "It's the judgement of the moon and stars," but you aren't on a solitary path. I'm with you! And, really, as our prophetess says, "you won't expire"... "not even when you die." Speaking of good Joni songs... how about The Silkie Veils of Ardor?! I just love that song! Gonna learn to play it today since I have some time off while the med students take their test. Love and blessings, Laura Lori, tired of all of it ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:18:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Next marketing gimmick for Joni/Bob's tunes NJC - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > NP: Linda Ronstadt, "Willin'" ah Bob I love that song!!!! I swear I'm gonna go outta my way to ride from Tucson up to Tucumcari one of these years...just because I soooooooo want a tattoo to that effect. But why the heck would anyone ride up to Tucumcari anyway??? maybe a backroads way. 9 hours via Mapquest - have never had the time. Won't get the tat without making the trip tho. So Bob all this good stuff you are always listening too... and I do pay attention to your "np"'s....ummmmmmmm, ya listening to the radio?? or is this all your stuff? or a mix of the 2?? it is always pretty much "of interest" tho.... :D Em ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:36:22 -0500 From: Kate Subject: spoon and glass > Rattle rattle rattle > In the spoon and the glass I am notorious for not really listening to lyrics all the way through a song. I hear the harmonies, the melodies, the beat, and half the time don't have a clue what a song is actually *about*. When I heard spoon and glass, I visualized spoons tinkling inside glasses at a wedding -- you know, where the guests pester the bride and groom overly much to get up and kiss? I was thinking about how Joni is so pissed off at the record companies, and wondering why, when everyone and their duck these days can make a CD for about $10,000, why she doesn't just make one at home in her own studio? The 10,000 bucks should be no problem for her, and she's got the market to sell them and make her money back, and can you imagine being a creator of her ilk and having the songs just stop coming because you say so? I can't. I mean, can she help expressing herself in this way? I hope not. So my fingers are crossed that she records an unplugged version of her new stuff at home, by herself. Or something even better. I'd be first in line to purchase. Kate (du Nord) "Limitless like the ocean are your excellent qualities." -- Dalai Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:39:31 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Next marketing gimmick for Joni/Bob's tunes NJC Well, Em to get the tattoo you also have to take the 'Tehatchapi to Tonopah' route! :~) Little Feat is a fave of mine, and I know they're popular with the bikers as well. As for NP's, it's a combination...mostly CD's, here at work I just play what I have in alphabetical order. At home, it could be anything, and sometimes I plug into the AOL radio and pick a station "Female Focus", "Soul", "Blues", "Jazz" are some of my favorite presets. I avoid commercial radio at all costs. Hazardous to one's health. Bob NP: Nuthin - I'm going to lunch! :~) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:45:56 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: next marketing gimmick for Joni <> I don't know about Joni or anyone else for that matter, but I would be completely THRILLED to watch Van Gogh paint "Starry Night" over and over again! Mia _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:04:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Next marketing gimmick for Joni/Bob's tunes NJC - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Well, Em to get the tattoo you also have to take the > 'Tehatchapi to Tonopah' route! :~) A California friend of mine says that's along I-40 west of AZ on into CA?? They live in Bakersfield. Yeah would love to do that someday too. so, that "Tehatchapi to Tonopah", line - still have to make myself sing it right and not the garbled WRONG way my friends used to sing it! very very wrong.... Little Feat is a fave of > mine, and I know they're popular with the bikers as well. maybe its cuz we can relate to the "warped by the rain" part..lol... dang its easy to become gnarly on a motorcycle. I mean it'll wrinkle you quickly. > I avoid commercial radio at all costs. Hazardous to one's > health. YUP .. totally agreed. :P Em < Subject: Re: An astute view of Bush? njc hi >>>>azeem wrote >......... had the ethics of a Carter,<<<< hey - ol' jimmy was out here in south africa the other day. overseeing a project building houses for the homeless in one of the poorest areas of durban.... hmmm, maybe not *all* politicians are all bad??? ron np - mary gauthier - (first song off dixie kitchen - i dont know what its called & the covers in my car ;-) ps - is anyone out there as impressed with mary as i am? i would have thought her songwriting would be hugely popular on this list. kind of a cross between lucinda williams & giselle hawkins with lyrics that can bring tears to my eyes just reading them. wonderful way of expressing herself, and an honesty in her writing that i havent heard since, well, stryngs :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:32:58 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: An astute view of Bush? njc AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > This is the concluding paragraph of a piece in today's Guardian, which speaks > for itself. The link for the whole article is below... > > Azeem in London > > "For years it has been my belief that the ideal US president for Middle East > peace would be one who had the ethics of a Carter, the popularity of a Reagan > and the strategic audacity of a Nixon. Alas, we have a president who has the > ethics of a Nixon, the popularity of a Carter and the intellectual agility of > a > Reagan." LOL I wonder if he got the idea from George Carlin, who said In Heaven: The Germans make the cars The French make the food The British are the police The Swiss are the hotelkeepers The Italians are the lovers In Hell: The Italians make the cars The British make the food The Germans are the police The French are the hotelkeepers The Swiss are the lovers > 7 Afif Safieh is the Palestinian General Delegate to the UK and the Holy See > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1194704,00.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:50:32 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: NJC W's Press conference - now why i decided not to vote hi >>>>>randy wrote > I appreciate your right to vote or not, but I do not find your > reasoning convincing. well, i must admit it s not even so convincing to myself, when i wrote it down on paper. bit its very real emotionally - i quite honestly cannot think of even one politician in my country for whom i have even a grudging respect. nelson was one, but he's not officially involved any more. this of course would not apply if i was in the us - i wouldnt hesitate to vote for whoever was opposition to bush :-) ron np - mary gauthier - evangeline (not the one emmylou sang :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:55:03 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: NJC W's Press conference - now why i decided not to vote hi >>>>catherine wrote >>>>>> Ever considered leaving SA? Move to North America, where it won't take so long to get to Jonifest :-D well, yes i did. but all the flag waving in the us is kind of scary. & as little as i think of our politicians here, i really am scared of bush :-) & all i know about canada is what i see on south park so im not too sure about that. only one road, left for ottawa & right for newfoundland???? :-) ron np - mary gauthier - different kind of gone ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:56:25 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Joni loves me songs:) hi >>>>nuriel wrote >>>>>> Love to hear your 'Joni loves me' song/s. mmm, love this question. i have three songs & theres no way i can possibly choose between them: down to you strange boy god must be a boogie man ron np - mary gauthier - i drink ( i know the name of this one!!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:46:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: after reading kate's post Dear Kate and everyone, Kate - i deleted your post by mistake, but i realy liked the part where you talked about Joni quitting music. It made me think again about the whole thing. Well, i think Joni is hiding something. All those reasone she gives for her drive to quit, seem to as me as an excuse for something much deeper than "The biz sucks and i'm ashamed to be a part of it". First of all, maybe she has started her work in music with a plan and now "The whole thing's gotten" and her task has reached it's ending. Like a writer of a book, she made it to the last chapter. But to be honest with you, i don't think she has nothing more to say. I think it's what she HAS to say that she doesn't want to turn into songs. I see her smiling on photos. Always happy and proud with a big "I'm just fine" written all over her face. I don't buy it. I think that behind that "Joni power", lies a woman who looks at the future a bit scared. I feel that she's a bit afraid to write songs about living without love, aging parents, funerals, her daughter's secrets, her hate towards this mad world, and the loss of dreams. Dylan isn't afraid at all to write and sing about the darkness that awaits him, but i think Joni does. "I don't want to talk about it" as the song goes. I'm sure that if Joni wouldv'e died, God parish the thoguht, us joniphiles would've wondered why isn't she writing songs about what it feels like to be stuck in a grave, and how does she feel in heaven, and what song of hers God likes the most. And i think she knows that, and she's had enough of sharing her life with her fans. Again, not because she's got nothing to say about life, but maybe this Dylan lyric "It's not dark yet but it's getting there" is what she can't deal with. Just some thoghts, nothing more... Love, Nuriel Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:34:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: after reading kate's post - --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > But to be honest with you, i don't think she has nothing more to say. > I think it's what she HAS to say that she doesn't want to turn into > songs. She's probably just not in the mood. She doesn't "need" to do it. And If a person doesn't "need" to do something, why do it? For the discipline??...nah... that gets old if you don't need the $$$. Artists do their thing because they need to, on some level. I'm betting JM just is not compelled at this point in time to write songs, perform them, figure out how to arrange them, etc. Probably just doesn't seem fun or particularly fascinating. > Dylan isn't afraid at all to write and sing about the darkness that > awaits him, but i think Joni does ...snip......but maybe this Dylan lyric "It's not dark yet but it's getting > there" is what she can't deal with. Dylan remains, tho a "master", also quite the "journeyman". He is at the root a rock and roller. Saw him onstage with the Dead fairly recently...he was happy as the proverbial pig in shite just back in a corner playing some kind of keyboard. He was being the(a) keyboard guy! He was being Pigpen, Godchaux, Hornsby! (except they had "his" volume way down I think, lol) And not even doing "his" stuff! And he didn't need to be there except he is a minstrel boy to the end. Maybe if Dylan were a better painter, bless his heart, we'd lose him too. Em <