From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #165 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, April 13 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 165 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Bush Doctrine--long (NJC) [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: NYC grammar fiends -- NJC ["tantra_apso" ] Re: money money money njc ["tantra_apso" ] Re: (NJC) Tom Robbins [kate@katebennett.com] Re: Bush Doctrine--(much) long(er), now (NJC) (PC) ["tantra-apso" ] Re:NJC ["A. Millington" ] Re: (NJC) To ease the gas pains ... ["tantra_apso" ] Re: Re:NJC ["tantra_apso" ] Re: Joni Singing To Soldiers ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: Bush Doctrine--(much) long(er), now (NJC) (PC) ["patrick leader" ] Re: (NJC) Tom Robbins ... [Catherine McKay ] Re: (NJC) Tom Robbins ... [Catherine McKay ] something odd/eerie NJC..well limited JC but not enough prolly ["Lama, Ji] Re: The end or to be continued, Joni's fingers now njc [Catherine McKay <] Re: (NJC) Tom Robbins ... Lieve!? [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Connecting the dots, 100% JC ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: (NJC) Tom Robbins ... Lieve!? now large-print books for old fogies [C] Cheryl Wheeler (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: (NJC) Tom Robbins ... Lieve!? now large-print books for old fogies [S] Re: nudity njc [Ken ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:55:29 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Bush Doctrine--long (NJC) Hi Kay, Nice list of solutions. I would like to add one more to the list, and that is putting some of that wasted Iraq war money into biomedical research here in the USA so we can figure out how to better protect ourselves from terrorist roaches that carry disease into our communities. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:26:19 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: Re: NYC grammar fiends -- NJC bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ > > 7 If you broke up with him because he wrote "you're" instead of "your" In such a case the dumpee is much better off without the dumper.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:29:54 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: Re: money money money njc was one of many brilliant ABBA songs..... bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:32:44 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Tom Robbins jeff loves his writing... i have a whole stack next to my bed that i keep ignoring... i tried one of them... was it the one about frog pjs? & somebody who drove a weird shaped car... anyway, i tried but could not get into it... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:40:35 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: Bush Doctrine--(much) long(er), now (NJC) (PC) I was inter5ested in reading this but couldn't figure out which of you was writing which bits. Copy and paste I assume? When that is done all the writing looks the same, at least in my email program, and those arrows are next to every line, thus making the job of reading two different peoplee extremely difficult. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:41:04 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: Re: money money money njc >I was wrong - it wasn't from Proverbs, it was also from Paul the Apostle (who was also a bit of a misogynistic homophobe and like most biblical heroes had a touch of serial killer in him), and of course his actual line was: "The LOVE of money is the root of all evil".< i didn't realize that was the actual line, thanks for this bob as it does make a big change in the meaning imo... i remember learning a bit about paul & not liking him much for reasons i can't remember... i didn't realize he was all those things though... one thing i always thought very weird is that a lot of christianity seems to be based on his interpretations... or am i off about that ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:42:35 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: Almost famous, but VERY wrong bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ It would have never happen in a British production - right, Colin?:) I don't know! But Americns make all sorts of mistakes in their films: they always win WW2, they retrieved the Enigma machine, in fact they always save the day! > > Love, > > Nuriel > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:13:57 +1000 From: "A. Millington" Subject: Re:NJC May I include this? Father's pride Four friends reunited at a party after 30 years. After a few laughs and drinks, one of them had to go to the rest room. The ones who stayed behind began to talk about their kids and their successes. The first guy says: I am very proud of my son, he is my pride and joy. He started working at a very successful company at the bottom of the barrel. He studied Economics and Business Administration soon he was promoted and began to climb the corporate ladder becoming the General Manager and now he is the president of the company. He became so rich that he gave his best friend a top of the line Mercedes Benz for his birthday. The second guy says: Damn, that's terrific!! My son is also my pride and joy, I am very proud of him. He started working at a travelling agency for a very big airline. He went to flight school to become a pilot and also manage to become a partner in the company where he now owns the majority of the assets. He became so rich that he gave his best friend a brand new jet for his birthday. The third guy says: Well, well, well congratulations!! My son is also my pride and joy and he is also very rich. He studied in the best universities and became an Engineer. He started his own construction company and became very successful and a multimillionaire. He also gave away some thing very nice and expensive to his best friend for his birthday. He built a 30,000 sq ft mansion specially for his friend. The three friends congratulated each other mutually for the successes of theirs sons. The fourth friend who earlier had gone to restroom returned and asked: What's going on, what are all the congratulations for? One of the three said: We were talking about the pride we feel for the successes of our sons. And then he asked, What about your son? The fourth man replied: My son is Gay and he makes a living dancing as a stripper at a nightclub. The three friends said: What a shame that must be, that is horrible, what a disappointment you must feel. The fourth man replied: No, I am not ashamed. Not at all. He is my son and I love him just as well, he is my pride and joy. And he is very lucky too. Did you know that his birthday just passed and the other day he received a beautiful 30,000 sq ft mansion, a brand new jet and a top of the line Mercedes Benz from his three boyfriends? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:46:57 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: Re: (NJC) To ease the gas pains ... It's easier than that. Just think of us UK subjects paying $7 per gallon for petrol/diesel. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:48:38 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: Kerry njc It si very alte here, almost 2 am. i returen an hour ago from spending a very enjoyable evening with kerry in London. will say more tomorrow. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:53:52 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: Re: Re:NJC amusing and pointed! On a more serious note, I have heard many a parent speaking oin glowing terms about their children's success like 'she is a dr', or he is a lawyer' or 'a ceo' or a pilot or a host of things like that. i have NEVER heard a parent boast about how kind, or loving, or peaceful, or trustworthy their offspring are. it's always about what they do and not what theya re. That is sad. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:34:05 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Joni Singing To Soldiers Yes, Nuriel, I know the video you are describing. The way she tells the story, it nearly sounds like she was doing "a show for soldiers". I think she was overstating a bit there. I don't think she's done a show for the US war effort. Ever! She did concerts in towns that had a military base, of course and I think that's what she meant. She performed concerts in a town where soldiers were temporarily housed on their way out or on their way back from our mistake in Vietnam. All the best, Jim Nuriel Tobias asked, >And before "The beat of black wings" video, she says something like "Back then i used to play and sing to soldiers that were on their way to the war or coming back from the war". So, it got me thinking that at that time she was giving shows for soldiers, unless it was a one time show (a strange fact in itslef) or that she only meant that in her heart she knew that the young audience folks were about to go to the war, or those who came back from it.> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:19:28 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Bush Doctrine--(much) long(er), now (NJC) (PC) hey buck: i've been pretty passionate about a bunch of these issues lately, but like kay, i appreciate your tone and willingness to respond. several things jumped out, but i want to respond to one: kay wrote: How about investing in >> > espionage, international cooperation and international law to bring the >> > terrorists into custody? and you wrote: >> Forgive me, Kay, but reversing the funding shortfalls and general >> evisceration of the intelligence apparatus enacted by the previous >> administration will take a significant amount of time. evisceration of the intelligence apparatus by the previous administration? i read a lot of news, and commentary, and i haven't heard anyone say that clinton 'eviscerated' our intelligence apparatus. BUCK, COULD YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A CITATION? A CONSERVATIVE SOURCE IS MORE THAN FINE WITH ME, BUT I WANT A SERIOUS INTELLIGENCE ANALYST CITATION. i'm not a great web searcher, but i've just spent a while trying to be serious as well. there have been several recent stories of ashcroft cutting counterterrorism funding, both before and after 9/11. his budget submission on 9/10/01 was particularly embarrassing afterwards. here are snippets from the new york times article: actual article at http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10C16FD39550C7B8EDDAB0894DA4 04482 pay only, unfortunately - --------------------------------------------------------------------- In his final budget request for the fiscal year 2003 submitted on Sept. 10 to the budget director, Mitchell E. Daniels Jr., the attorney general called for spending increases in 68 programs, none of which directly involved counterterrorism. Upgrading the F.B.I.'s computer system, one of the areas in which he sought an increase, is relevant to combating terrorism, though Mr. Ashcroft did not defend it on that ground. But in his Sept. 10 submission to the budget office, Mr. Ashcroft did not endorse F.B.I. requests for $58 million for 149 new counterterrorism field agents, 200 intelligence analysts and 54 additional translators. Mr. Ashcroft proposed cuts in 14 programs. One proposed $65 million cut was for a program that gives state and local counterterrorism grants for equipment, including radios and decontamination suits and training to localities for counterterrorism preparedness. Last August, before he proposed cutting the program to $44 million from $109 million, Mr. Ashcroft went to Dayton, Ohio, and watched a preparedness exercise and announced grants totaling $1.8 million to Ohio. - --snip-- Under Mr. Ashcroft's predecessor, Janet Reno, the department's counterterrorism budget increased 13.6 percent in the fiscal year 1999, 7.1 percent in 2000 and 22.7 percent in 2001. - --snip-- One former federal law enforcement official said that top officials in the F.B.I., which does the bulk of the department's counterterrorism work, had been concerned about Mr. Ashcroft's initial lack of focus on fighting terrorism. He said there was worry among some senior agents that counterterrorism would be downgraded in future years if Mr. Ashcroft's early attitude did not change. +++ buck, much of this article has been quoted on the web, a search of any phrase will tell you so. i also ask you to look at reno's budgets, quoted above. 'eviscerated' sure seems like an inappropriate word. i look forward to your thoughtful response. patrick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:22:27 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni Singing To Soldiers Where is Fort Bragg anyway, Alabama? I don't see it listed on the Appearances list http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html Anyway, I remember seeing the name "Wollman Skating Rink" where skaters were circling in vigorous anonymity. What I *don't* remember seeing before was that it was a venue where she performed on "08-14-68". That's 14 August to you, Queen Lucy. BTW, I saw Cheryl Wheeler over the weekend. When I got there it was SRO. Eventually, I got a stool, along the back wall. Out of nowhere, this unassuming woman in jeans and a t-shirt appeared, acoustic guitar already fitted, right in front of me. I immediately thought, "Sharon Buffington". It was Wheeler of course. Anyway, she has a really nice voice and has written some solid songs. There were 200 people there which means it was the perfect venue for a singer-songwriter, in my opinion. Yeah, she'll get my $18 next time too. She don't need "no" stinking lasers. She had very funny material too, delivered exactly as if it came off the top of her head. All the best, Lama np: Anne Sandstrom's "Ordinary Life" (Anne, are you working on new songs?) BTW Bob, I think you're right about "Everything Must Go"- nothing sticks. SCJoniGuy said, >No, you're right on the money - Joni meant literally that she performed and sang for soldiers, she said that she felt led to do that to help them out. I imagine that she probably got a lot of catcalls and that she quickly became disillusioned with that whole scenario.> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:25:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: (NJC) Tom Robbins ... --- Lori Fye wrote: > ... I've decided, knows just about all of life's > secrets. > > I'm currently reading Fierce Invalids Home From Hot > Climates, and it's as witty > and wise as everything else he's written. > ... > Anyone else into Tom? I read a bunch of TR books ages ago and just last week got "Fierce Invalids" from the library. It was only after I got home that I realized I had already read it about a year ago. I am getting so feckin' old, & I'm sure Mr Murphy will agree but am desperate for something good to read. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:30:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: (NJC) Tom Robbins ... --- Lori Fye wrote: > Lori, > whose favorite book remains "A Confederacy Of > Dunces" by the late John Kennedy > Toole -- and do you know a movie is in the works, > starring Will Farrell? Dunno > about that. I picture Ignatius as the comic book guy from the Simpsons. If only they could find a real live human that looks/acts/sounds like the comic book guy. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:35:05 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: something odd/eerie NJC..well limited JC but not enough prolly In Covington, we hide Easter eggs. :) It sounds like a new "workshop" in the Catskills... I wonder if Marianne knows anything about this... :) Heh, heh. I amuse myself. Lama >OK I'm at my Mom's for Easter family gathering. I go to use Mom's bathroom. There on the countertop is the back of a business card with "Joni Mitchell Both Sides Now" written on it in my Mom's neat script. what the heck?> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:38:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: The end or to be continued, Joni's fingers now njc --- Em wrote: > But for a guitarist, hmm wouldn't it be more fun to > just have 8-10 > diff. guitars standing by, all perfectly tuned in > the diff. tunings by > the 2 gentle men? 'Specially if you could afford > really delicious > ones... (umm guitars that is) > :P > Em I would prefer all the different guitars tuned in different tunings because every guitar has its own voice and it's great to try out new ones (oh, to be so rich); and I'll take the men as well. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:55:43 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Tom Robbins ... Lieve!? Catherine writes: << I am getting so feckin' old, & I'm sure Mr Murphy will agree but am desperate for something good to read. >> Yes, that's true, Catherine, but you make such a cute crone! I had a few suggestions in an earlier post today of some great new things to read. Also, maybe we should ask Lieve of the Incredible Lieve Reckers Book Swap to post the list of books from Jonifest 2003. Lots of ideas there. Also, I have mentioned in the past that I often check out lists of literary prize nominees and winners for reading suggestions. Here's a very good list from Hell's neck of the woods: http://www.aucklandlibrary.co.nz/general.aspx?ct=282&id=2691 This URL includes a pretty comprehensive list of lit prize winners, etc., from all over the world, including: Arthur C. Clarke Award Betty Trask Prize Commonwealth Writers Prize CWA (British Crime Writerbs Association) Dagger Awards Edgar Allen Poe Awards (mystery writing) Guardian First Book Award Hugo Award (science fiction writing) International IMPAC Dublin Literary Award Lambda Literary Awards The Man Booker Prize Miles Franklin Award (Australian) Nebula Awards Nobel Prize for Literature Orange Prize for Fiction Pulitzer Prize (fiction) Stonewall Book Award Whitbread Book Award I am sure many of these are available in LARGE PRINT editions, Catherine. Good luck! XO, - --Mr. Murphy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:58:22 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Connecting the dots, 100% JC Some time in May 67 Joni was at The Other Side in Fayetteville, NC USA, according to Simon. She met that unknown upstart, James Taylor, in March 1969. "Fiddle and the Drum" was on Clouds, released May '69 according to Les. She did it at the Dick Cavett show taping but that was later, on 08-18-69. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:04:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: (NJC) Tom Robbins ... Lieve!? now large-print books for old fogies --- Smurfycopy@aol.com wrote: > Catherine writes: > > << I am getting so feckin' old, & I'm sure Mr Murphy > will agree but am > desperate for something good to read. >> > > Yes, that's true, Catherine, but you make such a > cute crone! > > I had a few suggestions in an earlier post today of > some great new things to > read. ... > I am sure many of these are available in LARGE PRINT > editions, Catherine. > Good luck! Thanks, ya old fart! I read your list and have it filed away. (See, you're good for something!) I look for prize-winners too but try to avoid bestsellers because I'm such a snob that I figure if anything sells THAT many copies, it probably sucks. I may have missed one of two good ones that way but who cares. Of course I want the LARGE PRINT editions! I've always been blind as a bat anyway, and now that I'm an OLD blind bat, it comes in even handier. (Waiting for the sonar editions though.) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:13:07 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Cheryl Wheeler (NJC) In a message dated 4/12/2004 10:33:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, jlamadoo@fuse.net writes: BTW, I saw Cheryl Wheeler over the weekend. When I got there it was SRO. That's my girl!! :-D Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:14:19 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Tom Robbins ... Lieve!? now large-print books for old fogies Catherine writes: << I look for prize-winners too but try to avoid bestsellers because I'm such a snob that I figure if anything sells THAT many copies, it probably sucks. I may have missed one of two good ones that way but who cares. >> You're right. Bestsellers suck overall. Two summers ago I forced myself to read nothing but bestsellers and I was flabbergasted at what sells millions! Danielle Steele is just the tip of the poop pile! "Life of Pi" may be one I've missed, though. I dunno. Anyone like it? << Of course I want the LARGE PRINT editions! I've always been blind as a bat anyway, and now that I'm an OLD blind bat, it comes in even handier. >> I used to read to the blind when I was in high school, Catherine. If I see you this summer, I will read to you! I said, IF I SEE YOU THIS SUMMER, I WILL READ TO YOU. XO, - --Mr. Murphy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:53:22 -0400 From: Ken Subject: Re: nudity njc Which is one reason I liked so much what Alanis did at the Juno's. Sure it was staged but I think the point was to put nudity in its place and poke fun at all the American media and all this Janet Jackson thing. Ken kate@katebennett.com wrote: >steve d >It didn't seem to cause much of a stir, otherwise. Strange to >say, but I think nudity was much more accepted in the media then than >now. > >i agree, it was so different then... aside from the issue of the girl >being only 15 which i hadn't known, i think nudity was not only more >acceptable, it was much more healthy than it is now... back then, like >with joni's inside cover, it was more artful, more innocent.. now nudity >in the media (or suggested nudity) is about sex & power & commerce... ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #165 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)