From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #162 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, April 12 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 162 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: What is reality? PC NJC ["tantra_apso" ] RE: For all the language lovers here (NJC) ["mike pritchard" ] Re: For all the language lovers here (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: love njc [Lori Fye ] Re: Joni Singing To Soldiers [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] WHAAAA????? NJC [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: WHAAAA????? NJC [Lori Fye ] Re: Joni Singing To Soldiers [Lori Fye ] Re: WHAAAA????? NJC [Em ] RE: For all the language lovers here (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Joni as Dolores Hope [Lori Fye ] dear dogs and cats njc ["tantra_apso" ] Re: Joni as Dolores Hope [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni and the Wail [cul ] Re: For all the language lovers here (NJC) [Dflahm@aol.com] thank you [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: The end or to be continued? [Randy Remote ] Re: Joni as Dolores Hope [Randy Remote ] Re: doon it again! [Randy Remote ] Today's Library Links: April 12 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 08:39:39 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: Re: What is reality? PC NJC there was no trap Kakki. finished with this subject. I don't wnat to play this game. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kakki" To: "tantra_apso" Cc: Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 12:59 AM Subject: Re: What is reality? PC NJC > colin wrote: > > > Kakki you are an intelligent woman. You know what i was referring to. > > > > I'll leave it at that. > > Not sure that I do - that's why I asked. I do try (but mostly > unsuccessfully) to avoid traps. > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:52:27 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: RE: For all the language lovers here (NJC) Hi Colin, What Wally was trying to say was (if I may be so bold as to paraphrase him) is that modifiers (normally adjectives) are invariably singular. For example, in English we say 'one big house' and 'two big houses'. i.e. the noun 'house' is singular or plural depending on the number, but the adjective 'big' (or 'white', or 'stone' etc) does not change according to the number of things. 'Colin has a lovely puppy', or 'Colin has lovely puppies': 'lovely' doesn't change according to the number of puppies. This is in clear contrast to Spanish and Catalan, and many other languages, where the adjective must change according to number and to gender, and must 'agree' grammatically with the number and gender of the thing it is describing. Therefore depending on the number of puppies and their gender, in Spanish there would be 4 different adjective forms ('bonito', 'bonita', 'bonitos', and 'bonitas'), not one ('pretty', as in English. 'Un cachorro bonito' (one pretty male puppy), 'una cachorra bonita' (one pretty female puppy), 'Unos cachorros bonitos' (some pretty male puppies), and 'unas cachorras bonitas' (some pretty female puppies). One extra complication is that 'Unos cachorros bonitos' could also include some female puppies, as the male plural includes the female, whereas 'unas cachorras bonitas' could never include a male puppy. True story - my partner's great-grandmother was the 18th of 18 daughters, so the parents could have said 'Tenemos 18 hijas' (we have 18 daughters) , but if the 19th child had been a son, they would have had to say 'Tenemos 19 hijos' (we have 19 sons, or to be more precise, we have 19 children, at least one of whom is a son). The word for 'son' and 'child' is the same, unless the child is a girl, which means basically that children (and parents, aunts/uncles, grandparents, siblings etc) are by default masculine in Spanish and Catalan. Does this help? Wally also said >>the expression "two weeks" functions as a modifier of "notice". English modifiers are seldom plural. (in fact, they should never be plural but there are some exceptions.)<< What are the exceptions please, Wally? meic in barcelona ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 08:06:20 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Singing To Soldiers **Could someone please shed some light on those shows for the army she's given? I don't understand what you're getting at, Nuriel. I know that Killer Kyle was a guy she met after a performance at Fort Bragg in Fayetteville, NC. There's some more info about in the JMDL library - do a text search on "Bragg" or "Kyle" and see what you come up with. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 08:11:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: For all the language lovers here (NJC) --- mike pritchard wrote: >> Wally also said > >>the expression "two weeks" functions as a modifier > of "notice". English > modifiers are seldom plural. (in fact, they should > never be plural but there > are some exceptions.)<< I don't think it has anything to do with singular or plural. Doesn't the two weeks here function as a possessive? A notice of two weeks, therefore two weeks' notice? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 08:37:48 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: For all the language lovers here (NJC) In a message dated 11/04/2004 13:30:36 GMT Daylight Time, anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: << I don't think it has anything to do with singular or plural. Doesn't the two weeks here function as a possessive? A notice of two weeks, therefore two weeks' notice? >> Whether it is plural or singular does have a bearing on the position of the apostrophe; if it's one week, then you would say "one week's notice", as compared to "two weeks' notice". I seem to recall from the dim recesses of my fascination with the English language that there is an argument that "two weeks" here is not a true possessive and that it's in apposition to "notice" and that no apostrophe is therefore necessary. Yes, I am having a very quiet Easter Sunday, how did you guess? Azeem in glum and grey London ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 05:45:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Joni Singing To Soldiers Bob, Like i said, it all began with watching the CIFTC videos. At the opening of most of the videos, Joni is speaking a few words about the song. And before "The beat of black wings" video, she says something like "Back then i used to play and sing to soldiers that were on their way to the war or coming back from the war". So, it got me thinking that at that time she was giving shows for soldiers, unless it was a one time show (a strange fact in itslef) or that she only meant that in her heart she knew that the young audience folks were about to go to the war, or those who came back from it. But when you hear what she says on that video,"i used to sing to soldiers who were on their way to the war or coming back from the war", it seems like it was something that happened more than once, and since i know that lots of artists gave shows to soldiers, i couldn't help but wondering about it. If i simply didn't understand what she was saying - please forgive me, but if you recall what she says in the opening of the "Beat of black wings" video, she is talking about performing infront of soldiers, no doubt about it. Run the tape and hear her saying that for yourself. On the other hand, dear Bob, if you've never heard of such a thing, then i'm sure i'm wrong and didn't understand what Joni said. Love, Nuriel SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: **Could someone please shed some light on those shows for the army she's given? I don't understand what you're getting at, Nuriel. I know that Killer Kyle was a guy she met after a performance at Fort Bragg in Fayetteville, NC. There's some more info about in the JMDL library - do a text search on "Bragg" or "Kyle" and see what you come up with. Bob Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 10:13:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: For all the language lovers here (NJC) --- AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > > Whether it is plural or singular does have a bearing > on the position of the > apostrophe; if it's one week, then you would say > "one week's notice", as > compared to "two weeks' notice". I seem to recall > from the dim recesses of my > fascination with the English language that there is > an argument that "two weeks" > here is not a true possessive and that it's in > apposition to "notice" and that > no apostrophe is therefore necessary. D'oh! Of course. I wasn't even thinking about where the apostrophe was, but the fact there was one at all. Its placement in the word would depend on whether the word was singular or plural. English is such a stupid language. As if anyone would know whether there was an apostrophe or not, if you just *said* the word - it's just the written form where anyone would even notice. Maybe we should just do away with apostrophes altogether! Think of all the keystrokes and space saved! Pretty dull Easter here so far, but it's early and the sun is shining, so it looks like an outdoorsy sort of day for me. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 16:32:59 +0100 From: "amelio747" Subject: Re: Joni Singing To Soldiers Also from what I recall from the 'Shadows & Light' book or an interview, 'Killer Kyle' is the same guy she previously mentioned in 'Cactus Tree'.. "There's a man who sends her medals he is bleeding from the war" NP: Bliss - Tori * * * * * * Stephen T "I get the urge for going But I never seem to go" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 1:06 PM Subject: Re: Joni Singing To Soldiers > **Could someone please shed some light on those shows for the army she's > given? > > I don't understand what you're getting at, Nuriel. I know that Killer Kyle > was a guy she met after a performance at Fort Bragg in Fayetteville, NC. There's > some more info about in the JMDL library - do a text search on "Bragg" or > "Kyle" and see what you come up with. > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:40:55 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: love njc This just seems to be such an appropriate reply ... Love by Joni Mitchell - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Although I speak in tongues Of men and angels I'm just sounding brass And tinkling cymbals without love Love suffers long Love is kind! Enduring all things Love has no evil in mind If I had the gift of prophecy And all the knowledge And the faith to move the mountains Even if I understood all of the mysteries If I didn't have love I'd be nothing Love never looks for love Love's not puffed up Or envious Or touchy Because it rejoices in the truth Not in iniquity Love sees like a child sees As a child I spoke as a child I thought and I understood as a child But when I became a woman I put away childish things And began to see through a glass darkly Where as a child I saw it face to face Now I only know it in part Fractions in me Of faith and hope and love And of these great three Love's the greatest beauty Love Love Love - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Copyright ) 1982; Crazy Crow Music ~~~~ Lori "What is it about 'Thou shalt not kill' that you don't understand?" - God ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:55:57 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Singing To Soldiers No, you're right on the money - Joni meant literally that she performed and sang for soldiers, she said that she felt led to do that to help them out. I imagine that she probably got a lot of catcalls and that she quickly became disillusioned with that whole scenario. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:57:20 -0400 From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: WHAAAA????? NJC Did I just see Bob Dylan doing a Victoria's Secret commercial? (Rubbing my eyes in disbelief) Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 13:09:06 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: WHAAAA????? NJC Ken freaked out and wrote: > Did I just see Bob Dylan doing a Victoria's Secret commercial? (Rubbing my > eyes in disbelief) Yeah, it's been on for at least a few weeks. I can't decide whether to be disgusted or amused. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 13:24:12 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Joni Singing To Soldiers Just to clarify, we are talking about Joni singing to soldiers during the Vietnam war, yes? ~~~~ Lori ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:16:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: WHAAAA????? NJC I guess it didn't occur to me to be disgusted or amused....cuz thats the neat thing with him - Mr. Unpredictable. I am just always pretty delighted to see it..cuz there it is: his fascinating face on my TV. Now if he starts doing Mitsubishi ads or something..or Cadillac..ok disgust might enter the picture..but to me there's something edgy about him doing a womens underwear co. ad. :P Em < wrote: > Ken freaked out and wrote: > > > Did I just see Bob Dylan doing a Victoria's Secret commercial? > (Rubbing my > > eyes in disbelief) > > Yeah, it's been on for at least a few weeks. I can't decide whether > to be > disgusted or amused. > > Lori ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:45:41 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: For all the language lovers here (NJC) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 18:20:34 -0300well, two that come to mind are "systems analyst" and "women and gender studies". however, "women's studies" when "gender" is not used. w -----Mensaje original----- De: mike pritchard [mailto:ink08@hotmail.com] Enviado el: Domingo, 11 de Abril de 2004 07:52 a.m. Para: wally kairuz; colin CC: list Asunto: RE: For all the language lovers here (NJC) Wally also said >>the expression "two weeks" functions as a modifier of "notice". English modifiers are seldom plural. (in fact, they should never be plural but there are some exceptions.)<< What are the exceptions please, Wally? meic in barcelona ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:49:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Joni as Dolores Hope ...And what i find to be very strange is the army letting an anti-war artist like Joni not only sing to it's soldiers, but even getting near them! Imagine her singing Woodstock to soldiers? They probably thought she's a crazy peace-freek who's trying to discourage them! How on earth did the army officials agree to that? Or was she disguised as Dolores Hope? No, no, i know - they probably thought the soldiers would love to see a blonde chick! "She said she felt led to do that to help them out" - ha ha! What a dreamer that woman was! They should have hired a hooker, Joni! Love, Nuriel SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: No, you're right on the money - Joni meant literally that she performed and sang for soldiers, she said that she felt led to do that to help them out. I imagine that she probably got a lot of catcalls and that she quickly became disillusioned with that whole scenario. Bob Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:29:42 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Joni as Dolores Hope Nuriel wrote: > Imagine her singing Woodstock to soldiers? Imagine her singing "The Fiddle And The Drum"!! : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:20:03 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: dear dogs and cats njc Dear Dogs and Cats, When I say to move, it means go someplace else, not switch positions with each other so there are still two of you in the way. The dishes with the paw prints are yours and contain your food. The other dishes are mine and contain my food. Please note, placing a paw print in the middle of my plate and food does not stake a claim for it becoming your food and dish, nor do I find that aesthetically pleasing in the slightest. The stairway was not designed by NASCAR and is not a racetrack. Beating me to the bottom is not the object. Tripping me doesn't help because I fall faster than you can run. I cannot buy anything bigger than a king size bed. I am very sorry about this. Do not think I will continue to sleep on the couch to ensure your comfort. Look at videos of dogs and cats sleeping. They can actually curl up in a ball. It is not necessary to sleep perpendicular to each other stretched out to the fullest extent possible. I also know that sticking tails straight out and having tongues hanging out the other end to maximize space used is nothing but sarcasm. My compact discs are not miniature Frisbees. For the last time, there is not a secret exit from the bathroom. If by some miracle I beat you there and manage to get the door shut, it is not necessary to claw, whine meow, try to turn the knob, or get your paw under the edge and try to pull the door open. I must exit through the same door I entered. In addition, I have been using the bathroom for years--canine or feline attendance is not mandatory. The proper order is kiss me, then go smell the other dogs or cats' butt. I cannot stress this enough. It would be such a simple change for you. To pacify you I have posted the following message on our front door..... Rules for Non-pet owners who visit and like to complain about our pets: 1. They live here. You don't. 2. If you don't want their hair on your clothes, stay off the furniture. 3. I like my pet better than I like most people. 4. To you, it's an animal. To me, he/she is an adopted son/daughter who is short, hairy walks on all fours, and doesn't speak clearly. Dogs and cats are better than kids. They eat less, don't ask for money all the time, are easier to train, usually come when called, never drive your car, don't hang out with drug-using friends, don't drink or smoke, don't worry about buying the latest fashions, don't wear your clothes, don't need a gazillion dollars for college, and, if they get pregnant,you can sell the results. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 17:59:16 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni as Dolores Hope This would have been before she was known, just a traveling folksinger, a wayfaring stranger, working her way down the east coast. The authorities would no more know who she was than anyone, so there was no perceived threat. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:06:13 -0400 From: cul Subject: Joni and the Wail I just read a recent library additon called "Joni and the Wail" by one Ken Tucker in which he starts his critical piece with "Let me reiterate an axiom that always rankles readers but is nonetheless true: Very often, a critic knows better than an artist what the artist's best work may be." The rest of his piece clearly demonstrates the utter falseness of his axiom. I wish there was a way to create a ebola-like virus specifically aimed at the gentic sequence of critics who assume to know more about an artist's work than the artist they are criticizing. Grrrrr ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:51:18 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: For all the language lovers here (NJC) I believe Azeem's analysis is closest to mine, which is: for whatever reason, "two weeks notice" (a common expression) is being used as a compound noun. Similar would be "ship captain" or "streetcar conductor." DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:11:34 -0400 (EDT) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: thank you Sorry for no NJC, but I want to be sure to extend my good wishes to everyone. I want to thank everyone for their wonderful birthday wishes. On a personal note, birthdays have always been special to me because I have twin sister, and we weren't supposed to survive being born so premature (24 weeks, which is still phenomenal). We're both still here. Now, having survived 4 years (and now healthy) since my cancer diagnosis, it's a real milestone... and a reminder. Miracles happen. It was a wonderful day (ok, well, weekend). Tonight, I'm reminded of all my dear friends here. You're a special group. I wish you all love and peace, and at least a touch of the miracles that have kept me here among the living. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:19:33 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: The end or to be continued? What Joni said in her last interview with Timothy White in Billboard was that she would release [what became] BSN, T'Log, and a Christmas album. She said she wasn't writing any new songs, and that she was done. I would be surprised to see an album of all new material from her soon, or ever. But I guess you never know. RR Nuriel Tobias wrote: > >From reading lots of e-mails here, i get the feeling that most of us (but not myself) - do believe that Joni will release a new album. I need to know - is this based on something she said or on your high hopes? So, if you believe that she will - please explain. And if you think (or know) that she won't - i wanna know your feelings towards it. > > Love, > > Nuriel > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:25:11 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni as Dolores Hope Anti-war artist? Her 60's and 70's albums were conspicuously absent of comment on the war, with very few exceptions. While Baez was singing "Where Have All The Flowers Gone?" Joni was singing about Morgan Town and The Midway. RR Nuriel Tobias wrote: > ...And what i find to be very strange is the army letting an anti-war artist like Joni not only sing to it's soldiers, but even getting near them! Imagine her singing Woodstock to soldiers? They probably thought she's a crazy peace-freek ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:33:57 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: doon it again! Em wrote: > Hi Jim, wow, glad you understand what I mean about some of the lousy > vinyl. And yep if you or anyone can recommend an alternative > version..that would be great. ummmm..is there a pristine Joni-approved > re-master? or? My vinyl copy of DJRD (a $5 cutout) is quite nice. But your best bet is the HDCD remastered CD. I've got the earlier issue before the HDCD, and it sounds great, too. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 02:05:28 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: April 12 On April 12 the following article was published: 2002: "Second annual Swag charity auction" - Canadian Press (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=796 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #162 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)