From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #157 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, April 9 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 157 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Bombing Mosques NJC [Lori Fye ] Re: Bombing Mosques NJC [Em ] Re: Bombing Mosques NJC [Lori Fye ] Re: (NJC) Bombing on the JMDL ["Norman Pennington" ] Re: (NJC) Bombing on the JMDL [Lori Fye ] Re: Bombing Mosques NJC [Lori Fye ] Re: NJC troops in Iraq [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: NJC troops in Iraq [Lori Fye ] Re: Intern AG? NJC ["Norman Pennington" ] Re: Intern AG? NJC [Lori Fye ] doon it again! [Em ] Re: Joni's nude photo on FTR and the "kiss my ass" syndrom ["tantra-apso"] (NJC) Howard Stern [Lori Fye ] Re: doon it again! [Lori Fye ] Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) ["tantra_apso" ] (NJC) One of the dumber things I've ever read [Lori Fye ] Re: (NJC) One of the dumber things I've ever read ["tantra_apso" ] Bush Doctrine--long (NJC) ["Kay Ashley" ] Madrid (NJC) ["Kay Ashley" ] Re: Welcome (NJC) [Gertus@aol.com] Re: Madrid (NJC) [Em ] Les - it's still not working... [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: doon it again! [Em ] Re: Bush Doctrine--long (NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] NJC all these jaaazzzee zings jmdl [Emiliano ] Re: doon it again! (DJRD) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Welcome (NJC) (Now British Music) [AsharaJM@aol.com] Bombing whatever NJC -- PC ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Jonifest 2004 [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: flick NJC ["hell" ] Today's Library Links: April 9 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:01:47 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Bombing Mosques NJC Vince wrote: > You may be poresident, G w Bush This reminded me that when Bush was appointed to the presidency, I was working on K Street in DC and regularly meeting fairly powerful people like Bill Bennett. Working at an education reform foundation, most of my colleagues -- even the Democrats -- had voted for Bush because of his proposed "No Child Left Behind" program (but don't let me get started on that). I figured that I might have a real chance to meet Bush in person and I was looking forward to the opportunity for this one reason: I wanted to extend my hand and greet him, "Your Fraudulency." : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:05:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Bombing Mosques NJC Thats interesting Lori. I really had no clue what it is you do for a job. We have so much to talk about next time we meet. That "No Children Left Behind" thing..is that the Texas program where by teaching the kids to *take tests* they made it appear the kids were actually learning more?? When in reality they were merely learning to take those tests? or? Em - --- Lori Fye wrote: > Working at an education reform foundation, most of my > colleagues -- > even the Democrats -- had voted for Bush because of his proposed "No > Child Left > Behind" program (but don't let me get started on that). I figured > that I might > have a real chance to meet Bush in person and I was looking forward > to the > opportunity for this one reason: > > I wanted to extend my hand and greet him, "Your Fraudulency." > > : ) > > Lori ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:18:09 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Bombing Mosques NJC > Thats interesting Lori. I really had no clue what it is you do for a job. I don't work there anymore, Em. After 14 months there (www.edexcellence.net) and another 3 months at another non-profit (www.unfoundation.org), I learned that I belong in the "for-profit" sector. Since July 2001 I've worked at a commercial real estate company in Bethesda (www.cresapartners.com), and I love my job! > We have so much to talk about next time we meet. We certainly do! > That "No Children Left Behind" thing..is that the Texas program where > by teaching the kids to *take tests* they made it appear the kids were > actually learning more?? When in reality they were merely learning to > take those tests? or? You got it. That's what it is. I disagree with that, and with vouchers and (to a lesser extent) with charter schools too. The above disagreements, plus being surrounded by rabid right wing Republicans and misguided Democrats, are the reasons I left the foundation. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:17:22 -0600 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: (NJC) Bombing on the JMDL In an attempt to restore peace, Lori wrote: > Time out please! > > Smurf and Buck (and Mack and others), given the opportunity, you would probably > find out that -- except for this one hot-button issues that evokes so much > passion in each of us -- you would like each other very much for the endless > list of other things you DO have in common. > > Buck and I completely disagree about the war and about Bush, but we've been > friends for 27 years for a reason. > > Trust me on this, okay? Point taken, and most likely true, since you know both of us. That said, haven't you ever encountered someone you immediately recognized as an asshole? Let's say, just for instance, an individual who attacked you *personally* with despicable innuendo because his/her politics and/or opinions weren't just like yours? I have...and it would be damned hard to sit down and have a beer, talk about Joni, or bikes, or archaeology, or WHATEVER, after that. Good try, Lori...but...no thanks. bp, still looking forward to Happy Hour ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:22:51 -0600 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Bombing Mosques NJC Lori sez: > > I wanted to extend my hand and greet him, "Your Fraudulency." > Hmmm. If you'd done that, you just might have experienced Ashcroft's Oppression first hand! bp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:29:58 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: (NJC) Bombing on the JMDL > Point taken, and most likely true, since you know both of us. That said, > haven't you ever encountered someone you immediately recognized as an > asshole? Sure Buck -- in fact, Dick Cappell (birth control glasses, greasy black hair, constantly questioning what I was doing in radar maintenance even before I'd had a chance to prove I had no idea) comes to mind. But, as you said, I know you and Bob (Smurf), and neither of you are assholes. This entire "recognition" of each other as such is based first on the passionate beliefs and feelings we have about the war and this president, and second on some perception that each of you is calling the other names. Please keep in mind this email medium and the fact that comments and intentions are sometimes misunderstood. Lori, looking forward to happy hour at Jonifest with ALL of you! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:40:19 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Bombing Mosques NJC > Hmmm. If you'd done that, you just might have experienced Ashcroft's > Oppression first hand! LOL ... true, although Asscraft (as Kay has aptly renamed him), hadn't been confirmed when this idea occurred to me. I left the foundation shortly after his confirmation, about the time a 20-year-old intern scared the bejesus out of me by literally jumping for joy that he'd become AG. Ugh. Lori, who decided right then to never trust anyone under 30 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:49:08 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC troops in Iraq Lori wrote: <> As most of you know, I make a point of staying out of the political discussions here. But I just have to say this one out loud: PLEASE GOD, DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!! Hugs, Ashara, mother of 4 boys, 3 of whom would be draft age ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:53:23 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: NJC troops in Iraq > Ashara, mother of 4 boys, 3 of whom would be draft age I take back what I said about the draft. Not just because of your sons, Ashara, but just because. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:22:56 -0600 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Intern AG? NJC Lori inadvertently typed: > ...about the time a 20-year-old intern scared the bejesus out of > me by literally jumping for joy that he'd become AG. > > Ugh. Surely it must have been another (Democratic) administration that nominated a 20-year-old intern to be AG, and confirmed him/her, too? bp, grinning slyly ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:42:18 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Intern AG? NJC Buck noticed that: > Lori inadvertently typed: > >> ...about the time a 20-year-old intern scared the bejesus out of >> me by literally jumping for joy that he'd become AG. >> >> Ugh. And then Buck quipped: > Surely it must have been another (Democratic) administration that nominated > a 20-year-old intern to be AG, and confirmed him/her, too? LOL! I sure blew that one, huh? I SHOULD HAVE typed: "...about the time a 20-year-old intern scared the bejesus out of me by literally jumping for joy that Ashcroft had become AG." The intern was female, btw. Lori, longing for the Clinton years when a 20-year-old might have become AG -- well okay, not, but still missing "Billary" and the Clinton years! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:15:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: doon it again! Just letting ya all know I am "experiencing" DJRD again. Yep! Realized that what I thought was side 2 was in reality side 4..remember on double albums how they're faced so sequential sides happen by the next one dropping down from the funky "changer" thingy??? Anyway, I have no "changer thingy". Wonder if she knows Robert Hunter...hmmm.. guess the jet flanger reminded me... ok..just reporting in with the crucial information that I'm back at it. :) ol Em ps did this require a "njc"? ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:23:24 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: Joni's nude photo on FTR and the "kiss my ass" syndrom bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ If you have > an > > > original cover LP, you may own something valuable. Hopefully anyone owning the original cover would destroy it, not make money out of the exploitation of a minor. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:25:50 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: (NJC) Howard Stern Okay, he's Beavis & Butthead and Lenny Bruce rolled into one, but do we really want the FCC shutting him down? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61695-2004Apr8.html Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:29:00 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: doon it again! > ps did this require a "njc"? Not as long as you promise to tell us more about your DJRD experience! Lori, looking forward to that post from Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:30:53 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ > "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: What kind of religious person uses a place of worship as a fortress? > > > > Besides a terrorist, I mean. > > and randy replied: > > I think the same type of person that uses religion as a shield for > warmaking. Such stuff is why I love this list so much. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:35:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Another Mer Girl A dear memeber of the group has wrote, under the subject of Joni unincluded in the RS 50 list, something about Madonna being in it. I'll start by saying that i do agree that Joni is a must be in any greatest artist list. But what, on earth, is so wrong with Madonna? I've been following her ever since she started up to her last album "American life" - and like then, even now, i still think she's a master in using "silly" POP lyrics in order to tell a story. As years went by, Madonna, unlike any other POP artist, has done a great job in - and do forgive me for the Joni quate - "painting with words", and those of you who had the chance to hear her work through the years, know that, like Joni, her main "portrait" was herself, and, again, like Joni, she's done it in her songs. Yes, her - she's been writing, composing and producing most of her songs ever since her first album, and if Joni has told her own story using poet-like lyrics, Madonna has done it using POP lyrics, a fact that i find to be amazing. If anyone here is a Madonna fan, i'd love to hear from you, and i'll end this one with a song by Madonne from her "Ray Of Light" album. "Mer Girl" I ran from my house that cannot contain me From the man that I cannot keep From my mother who haunts me, even though she's gone From my daughter that never sleeps I ran from the noise and the silence From the traffic on the streets I ran to the treetops, I ran to the sky Out to the lake, into the rain that matted my hair And soaked my shoes and skin Hid my tears, hid my fears I ran to the forest, I ran to the trees I ran and I ran, I was looking for me I ran past the churches and the crooked old mailbox Past the apple orchards and the lady that never talks Up into the hills, I ran to the cemetery And held my breath, and thought about your death I ran to the lake, up into the hills I ran and I ran, I'm looking there still And I saw the crumbling tombstones All forgotten names I tasted the rain, I tasted my tears I cursed the angels, I tasted my fears And the ground gave way beneath my feet And the earth took me in her arms Leaves covered my face Ants marched across my back Black sky opened up, blinding me I ran to the forest, I ran to the trees I ran and I ran, I was looking for me I ran to the lakes and up to the hill I ran and I ran, I'm looking there still And I smelled her burning flesh Her rotting bones Her decay I ran and I ran I'm still running away Love, Nuriel Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:40:44 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: (NJC) One of the dumber things I've ever read From an article in today's Washington Post on the "morning after" pill, aka "Plan B": "The application to give Plan B full over-the-counter status has been sharply criticized by social conservatives who say it would lead to increased teenage promiscuity." So how does the thought process go, in the mind of a teenaged girl? "Yes, I think I'll risk AIDS and STDs as long as I can't get pregnant"?? This is (yet) an(other) example of why social conservatives have so little credibility. I know that a lot of teenagers think they're immortal and that they won't get VD or AIDS, but let's give SOME of them credit for having a brain, fer chrissakes! If we would teach our children well, with proper, publicly-funded sex education programs, we could reduce "promiscuity" and its results. Reducing or eliminating access to "Plan B" will do nothing more than increase abortions and the birth of unwanted (and neglected and abused) children. Rest of the article is here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59436-2004Apr7.html Lori, disgusted with the direction this country is heading ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:59:25 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: Another Mer Girl I am not a particular fan of Madonna. i have enjoyed some of her singles and love the Ray of Light album. However, i do recognize her as a woman of great talent and satying power. I think many people diss her out of snobbery. she is pop, and has used sexulaity to sell herself. But what she had to sell was real and solid. Like as prayer immediately comes to mind as an excellent piece of art. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:03:36 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: Re: (NJC) One of the dumber things I've ever read I think it ridiculous the arguments put forward for not providing the morning after pill-we have the same arguments here. However, I wish I could agree with the rest of your post. It is an unfortunate fact that the rates of HIV and other STD infections is on the rise amongst young str8 people, at elast here in the UK, and has been for a long time.partly, with HIV, becaus eof the homophobic way it was first dealt with. it is STILL seen as something affecting gay men only. Young, and not so young, str8 people still have frequent unportected sex. A way needs to be found to deal with that. But to deny the morning after pill is stupid for the reasons you said. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:11:02 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: (NJC) And now for a bit of levity SNAPPY ANSWERS! Snappy Answer #1 A flight attendant was stationed at the departure gate to check tickets. As a man approached, she extended her hand for the ticket, and he opened his trench coat and flashed her. Without missing a beat she said, "Sir, I need to see your ticket, not your stub." Snappy Answer #2 A lady was picking through the frozen turkeys at the grocery store, but couldn't find one big enough for her family. She asked a stock boy, "Do these turkeys get any bigger?" The stock boy replied, "No ma'am, they're dead." Snappy Answer #3 The cop got out of his car, and the kid who was stopped for speeding rolled down his window. "I've been waiting for you all day", the cop said. The kid replied, "Yeah, well I got here as fast as I could." When the cop finally stopped laughing, he sent the kid on his way without a ticket. Snappy Answer #4 A truck driver was driving along on the freeway. A sign comes up that reads "Low Bridge Ahead." Before he knows it, the bridge is right ahead of him and he gets stuck under the bridge. Cars are backed up for miles. Finally, a police car comes up. The cop gets out of his car and walks around to the truck driver, puts his hands on his hips and says, "Got stuck, huh?" The truck driver says, "No, I was delivering this bridge and ran out of gas." Snappy Answer #5 The Teacher "Snappy Answer of the Year" A college teacher reminds her class of tomorrow's final exam. "Now class, I won't tolerate any excuses for you not being here tomorrow. I might consider a nuclear attack, or a serious personal injury, or illness, or a death in your immediate family, but that's it, no other excuses whatsoever!" A smart-ass guy in the back of the room raised his hand and asks, "What would you say if tomorrow I said I was suffering from complete and utter sexual exhaustion?" The entire class does its best to stifle their laughter and snickering. When silence is restored, the teacher smiles sympathetically at the student, shakes her head, and sweetly says, Well, I guess you'd have to write the exam with your other hand." BONUS Snappy Answer A girl was visiting her blond friend who had acquired two new dogs, and asked her what their names were. The blonde responded by saying that one was named Rolex, and one was named Timex. Her friend said, "Whoever heard of someone naming dogs like that?" "Hello-o-o-o-o," answered the blonde. "They're watch dogs!" Can't get enough? The BEST is LAST! A pompous minister was seated next to a Texan on a flight to Dallas. After the plane was airborne, drink orders were being taken. The Texan asked for a whiskey and soda, which was brought and placed before him. The flight attendant then asked the minister if he would like a drink. He replied in disgust, "I'd rather be savagely raped by brazen whores than let liquor touch my lips." The Texan looked at the minister, then handed his drink back to the attendant and said, "I didn't know we had a choice." : D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:22:23 -0400 From: "Kay Ashley" Subject: Bush Doctrine--long (NJC) Hey All, Buck, I appreciate you outlining the specifics of why you are in favor of Bush's tactics. I understand your points, but happen to largely disagree with you, as you know, :-) but I also happen to agree with you on some things. To be more specific: I agree that it is a good thing that the Taliban is no longer in power; I agree that it is a good thing that Afghanistan is no longer (so far as we know) a major refuge for Al Qaeda; I even agree that it is a good thing that Hussein is no longer in power, because there's no doubt that he is an evil man. You may be right that Bush is doing the right thing, and in fact, despite my avowed lefty status, I really do hope that you ARE right -- because if you're not, we are royally f*cking up our own country and the entire world for decades to come. My objections are with tactics, as illustrated by my admittedly simple cockroach-steamroller metaphor, and with the long-term consequences of those tactics. I am a firm believer that violence only begets violence only begets violence, and I am a firm believer that in all aspects of life, one has to consider all consequences, short term and long term. I think that the Bush Doctrine, as we have witnessed it so far, is a really macho, knee-jerk, revenge motivated set of tactics -- in short, shoot 'em up at High Noon cowboy tactics. I think that we are ultimately making the world less safe simply because our actions to "stamp out" the "evil doers" are just creating more anger and hatred. Furthermore, there has been *no* leadership from DC at all, in terms of educating the US public about the roots of the anger and hatred that we are actively cultivating. The only ideological "leadership" we get is that "we are right" and "they are wrong", which is the kind of attitude that good parents try to curb in 5-year-old children. In the short term, the Bush Doctrine may appear to be exactly the correct thing, and in the short term, it may actually produce what appear to be positive results; but in the long term, the Bush Doctrine is going to be a disaster, both for the security of the international community and for the integrity of our own democracy. Here is my version of the Leftist, idealistic, pacifist belief system: what I believe is that we as a species need to evolve psychologically and spiritually to a point where we no longer immediately go for the guns when someone hurts us. We need to stretch and grow. We need to repudiate war as a method for dealing with conflict. And when we come to the kind of crossroads that 9/11 forced upon us, the burden is on the one with more power to rise above. We are the ones with more power, despite the fact that we got our asses kicked on 9/11. It is our responsibility to LEAD. To me, true leadership is innovative, creative, and appeals to the highest, most noble aspects of human nature; Bush's leadership has dragged us down into the gutter with the cockroaches, riling people up into a truly unsophisticated jingoistic frenzy that is unworthy of us as a nation. This is War, not the goddamned Superbowl. I listened to a good deal of Condie Rice's 9/11 Commission testimony this morning. I disagree with her that this is a war that needs to be fought offensively, and not defensively. And Buck, per your request, :-) I will attempt to offer a rational alternative that would still produce results. I believe that it is possible to have a defensive, largely covert plan that would have created the same results that you champion. And I believe that it is possible to do so without destroying the fabric of our own Constitution and Bill of Rights in the process. How about taking all that money that we're throwing at Iraq and funnel it into hunting down the terrorist funding sources and cut them off? Perhaps some sabre-rattling would become necessary to convince other governments to comply, but even a pacifist like me can see the value in that. How about investing in espionage, international cooperation and international law to bring the terrorists into custody? How about re-regulating the airline industry and forcing all the airlines to outfit their cockpits with bullet proof doors and whatever else the experts say is needed? How about creating a whole shitload of jobs by forcing every single cargo ship and every single cargo plane that comes into any port in this country to be searched by large teams of counter-terrorism experts? If you hired enough of them, ships/planes could be examined quickly and without undue damage to commerce. (That's a job I could get behind: make the country safer, and you don't have to kill anyone!) How about outfitting the FBI and the CIA with new computers and cross-organization proprietary databases that can actually talk to each other, and force them to cooperate, rather than just create another behemoth of a bureaucracy? (In short, take what we already have and make it work.) And to borrow from Kucinich, how about create a Department of Peace, whose sole mission would be to examine as objectively as possible all the causes of unrest and misery in the world (which would require a lot of mature self-examination), and come up with plans, in concert with the UN, the WHO, etc., for the US to take nonmilitary action in order to improve the lives of others in the world -- truly humanitarian action, which in the long term would make us, and the world, more secure? And here's a big one -- how about start investing billions of dollars into developing wind power, solar power and hydrogen fuel cell technology? Within 5 years, we could have windmill farms and photovoltaic cell farms in the uninhabitable deserts of this country, built and working and plugged into the nation's powergrid. More jobs, more jobs, more jobs!! More security! Less dependence on foreign oil! No need to drill in Alaska! Isn't this the obvious, correct path? And here's another biggie -- how about we actually pay our dues to the United Nations, and instead of subverting the UN at every turn, how about working with them proactively and allow the UN to fulfill its mission, instead of us hijacking and perverting its mission? The UN, with the proper support, is fully capable of dealing with problems like the Taliban and despots like Saddam Hussein. On occasion, military action is required; but if it is military action that is truly agreed upon by a truly multilateral body, then that military action is more likely to be respected by the world at large, and less likely to foment more hatred and resentment. The only way for there to be a New American Century is for us to rise above, to have a vision of a peaceful world, and to swallow our pride and proactively create that peaceful world. I just came back from India, and believe me, India (and China) are going to completely subvert our economy unless we come up with a new paradigm for international leadership. We have to educate ourselves better (our math and science skills as a nation are truly pathetic) and start exporting new ideas and new, green technology. The old modes are failing; people in India, as I saw with my own eyes, are willing to work many times as hard as we are, for many times less money; and they are willing to endure living conditions that all but the poorest of us would find shocking. Our future does not lie in manufacturing; the countries of Asia and Latin America have already undercut us in irreversible ways (though isn't it ironic that military manufacturing is the one thing we still have over everyone else, and not surprisingly, that's where the Bushies are placing their priority). The solution is not to pay American workers less and dismantle unions; our future lies in a new kind of leadership. A post-Cold War, post-9/11 leadership which acknowledges that we are the "victors" of the Cold War, and which acknowledges that a new, special kind of responsibility comes with that status. That special kind of responsibility is the burden of setting the correct example (nuclear disarmament, Kyoto protocols, etc., etc.) And that kind of leadership will never come from people like George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Condoleeza Rice or Donald Rumsfeld. They are obsolete. And if we continue to elect leaders like them, the world will become ever more dangerous. And to conclude, I would ask Buck and other "righties" to reconsider their dismissal of the Left's concerns about "lies" and "conspiracies", etc. Let's face it: every movement that any independent nation makes on the international playing board is motivated by material greed. If the "enemy" (or even "ally"!) doesn't have something we need, then the other party simply does not interest us. That is just a fact of history and a fact of human nature. I refer you to "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond if you are interested in the long (thousands of years) view. I would ask that you not dismiss the leftist outrage about the spin that this government puts over on us; there is a whole lot more truth to it than you would care to acknowledge. I would also ask that you read Richard Clarke's book if you have not already; he does a good job of summarizing the history of the US involvement in the Middle East. Unknown to many Americans, it is a very recent history, motivated almost completely by the desire to have easy access to oil. Israel's security has always been a convenient moral smoke screen behind which to hide. Access to oil is the crux and the fulcrum of our involvement in the Middle East -- full stop. Respectfully, Kay Ashley _____________________________________________________________ The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems and notify the sender immediately. You should not retain, copy or use this email for any purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its content to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:46:09 -0400 From: "Kay Ashley" Subject: Madrid (NJC) Patrick wrote: i heard richard perle, one of our most psychotic bush admin insiders, on npr just after the election, and he said 'socialist' several times as if he's just sucked bull piss. made a point of it. that's how our conservatives have highjacked the word. it's not pretty. Oh, Patrick, you are too much -- I actually strained my abdominals over this one. I neglected to respond to Gill's thoughtful post. Clearly you know a whole helluva lot more about it than I do, and I found your explanation of what happened in the 3/14 election fascinating. In case I came across this way at all, I did not mean to suggest that by electing the socialist party, that Spaniards are appeasing terrorists at all. I am grateful for all the insight on party dymanics you offered, because I did not know all that stuff. What a mess we're in. And Patrick's quote above made me think of the one time my mother ever said the F word in my presence (she was just trying to keep up with my potty mouth), and she, being a genteel southern gal, literally screwed up her mouth and let the word slowly drawl out of her mouth as though it were funky spunk. You kinda have to know my mom, she's really old fashioned; so just try to imagine your grandmother saying it, and you get the idea. ;-) Kay _____________________________________________________________ The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems and notify the sender immediately. You should not retain, copy or use this email for any purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its content to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 19:21:19 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: Welcome (NJC) In a message dated 08/04/2004 18:15:43 GMT Standard Time, SCJoniGuy writes: > If you haven't heard Davey Graham's "Both Sides Now", you > should. I find it electrifying. I'm happy to send a .wma to > whoever would like to hear it. Bob, I would love to hear that, especially if you find it electrifying! > > As for Bert Jansch, he recorded "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" but it > was an instrumental version WAY prior to Joni's lyrical one. > > I'm listening to that very track right now. I absolutely love it! Those guys were extraordinary and so young! I wonder what would happen to them if they were new to today's music scene. I suspect they would get no-where. Great credit has to go to a guy called Bill Leader who recorded a lot of raw talent on the Leader label. I met him once. Have fun, Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:23:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Madrid (NJC) - --- Kay Ashley wrote: > Patrick wrote: > i heard richard perle, one of our most psychotic bush admin insiders, > on npr just after the election, and he said 'socialist' several times > as if > he's just sucked bull piss. made a point of it. that's how our > conservatives have highjacked the word. it's not pretty. > > Oh, Patrick, you are too much -- I actually strained my abdominals > over > this one. You know what? Me too. I was chortling like an idiot in my office when I read that. Nearly spewed... :) Those of you who are putting down these words on all this war stuff...just so you know, its not lost on the likes of moi, but I'm sitting back and listening to ya'lls greater knowledge on this..tho I certainly have my own feelings and urges. Sometimes its good just to listen. For me anyway. I very much appreciate what I've read so far. thanks, Em ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:02:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Les - it's still not working... Dear Les, (Sorry everyone, but since i don't have Les's e-mail, i had to post it here) I've followed the needed steps and i got this massage: Error Occurred While Processing Request Error Diagnostic Information Error in CFFILE tag The form field specified in the CFFILE tag (FILETOUPLOAD) does not contain an uploaded file. Please be sure that you have specified the correct form field name. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFFILE), occupying document position (42:3) to (48:3). Date/Time: 04/08/04 19:52:24 Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98) Remote Address: 81.218.93.68 HTTP Referrer: http://www.jmdl.com/gallery/mypicture.cfm Please, tell me what can i do? I'm just lost... Thanks and love, Nuriel - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:06:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: doon it again! - --- Lori Fye wrote: > Not as long as you promise to tell us more about your DJRD > experience! Hi Lori well I listened to side 4 twice and listened to side 3 twice. The Silky Veils of Ardor is a blessing...it dribbles cold water on the tongue of us folk thirsty ones. Not that the lead up is not great. Figured out if you're not hearing and absorbingm or at least touching the words to this stuff, you might as well not listen. I'm wondering if I have a less than good pressing of this. Maybe this one that suffered from the vinyl shortage of the 70's. Anyone remember that scandle? When they found out the record co's were pressing way too many discs off the master? I have lots of crappy vinyl from the late 70's. James Taylor, some of my Linda Ronstadt and Steely Dan, just never sounded really good amd I suspect I had bad pressings. Or "marginally" bad pressings. Just enough distortion to make me not want to listen. ::shrug:: either that or I need a sub woofer to make the most of that deep drum sound. I get the feeling that the lush tho spare "recording" of DJRD is supposed to be part of the attraction, but it just doesn't sound that great...might be my LP. Not sure. Wish it were a cleaner source. So I welcome "10th world" when it comes around! Its part of it! Is that "the" Chaka Khan that sings b/u? From Rufus?? Anyway to have bumped into a wild peice of Afro-Cuban in the midst of this is delightful I find. And Dreamland a jewel. But the lyrics - of this whole thing ('cept 10th World) will require more listening. ha! "I pissed a tequila python"..lmao!!!! and there's so much more. I need to let the lyrics be part of the "visuals" for me on this. Gonna require more listening is all. And maybe a better copy of this. Its weird, sometimes LP's sound BETTER to me than CD's - but not in this instance. Its not letting the sound come out right. Also I am playing this in a small room, might not be best for this sort of music...maybe a huge room (which I don't have) OR headphones would be better. Anyway, its like trying to get attached to "Desolation Row" without listening to the words... why bother?? EXCEPT, I *think* the recording itself is supposed to be really delicious, but this LP I have is not "allowing" that. Hope that makes some sense. Em ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 20:18:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Bush Doctrine--long (NJC) Kay, I wish running for public office interested you. I would stand in line for days to vote for you. Thank you for another amazing post. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 02:31:11 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: NJC all these jaaazzzee zings jmdl Hi! I've been in vacation for a couple (or so) of days... and yes I've read each and everyone of these hundreds and hundreds of posts... yes I begun yesterday, and Marga, Clara & Sara have go out to see Brother Bear without me, uf! Of course there's more live(s) out there ;-), and we've got more interesting books to read (yes, we do), but instead of reading a magazine, or the sad-or-silly news, this JMDL (call it holy, blessed, call it Join Me Daring Loves: it's for Joni) is the One for this spanish boy! I'd only want to comment something on Kay's posts (Thanks, Kay, Thanks! Thanks Mags, Lori, Gill ... ) but, please remember, I'm so frivolous... Seriously, I'm trying to gain forces to write about that, in english, eh? Well.. Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano NP: In The Garden, Van Morrison ... and to DJRD right now! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 20:40:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: doon it again! (DJRD) Damn Em, reading your take on DJRD is so refreshing!! Makes me want to haul out my LP -- or, since I have it on CD too, MAIL you my LP so you can perhaps enjoy it more! Although I don't know if the pressing I have is any better than the one you have now; my came from a "cut-outs" bin at some record store, many dim years ago. But you're welcome to it if you want it (send me your address and I'll send it off). > So I welcome "10th world" when it comes around! Its part of it! This absolutely thrills me, especially b/c that track gets the least attention (and the most complaints). Perhaps it takes a Cuban to properly appreciate it? : ) > Is that "the" Chaka Khan that sings b/u? From Rufus?? Yes. > Anyway to have bumped into a wild peice of Afro-Cuban in the midst of > this is delightful I find. And Dreamland a jewel. Agreed, and agreed. In the right frame of mind I really enjoy The Tenth World, and I ALWAYS love Dreamland. (It's a fun, fun song to perform at Jonifest, too, with everyone participating and dancing and dreaming along.) My personal favorite on DJRD is Jericho, I guess because it just hits me square in the heart. Next to that, though, would have to be Paprika Plains. It's long for sure, but it SO captures the stark beauty of the plains of Saskatchewan and Alberta, and also North Dakota and eastern Montana, which is where I was living (as was Buck) when I first heard it. It transports me back to that place every single time I hear it, and really, those plains DO look as if the goddesses and gods sprinkled paprika on them. (Perhaps there was a "plains cookoff" once upon a time?) > Its weird, sometimes LP's sound BETTER to me than CD's - but not in this > instance. Not so weird; I think LPs just about always sound better than CDs. LPs have a richer, warmer sound that is somehow "digitized" away on CDs. But I forget that until I drag the vinyl out and begin to play it. > Also I am playing this in a small room, might not be best for this sort > of music...maybe a huge room (which I don't have) OR headphones would > be better. Headphones would be a good thing in this case -- try that. > EXCEPT, I *think* the recording itself is supposed to be really > delicious, but this LP I have is not "allowing" that. > Hope that makes some sense. It makes perfect sense, and as I said, I'll be happy to let you have my LP if you're interested. (Allison -- known as "Mary" to most folks here -- and I are in the process of selling just about all of our vinyl on eBay, anyway, so we can move onto a boat or an RV or something smaller and more mobile in the future.) Tell us more as it comes to you! This is FUN! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:35:31 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Welcome (NJC) (Now British Music) Jacky mentioned: <> You've mentioned this book several times before, Jacky, and when you first mentioned it, I put it on my "wish list" because it was out of print and the price was very steep (I think about $35.00) for a used copy. I see that they have just released the paperback version, and it is available for a very reasonable price!! YAY!! Bert, John, Pentangle, Steeleye Span, Maddy Prior, June Tabor, Fairport Convention, Sandy Denny and many, many more British names wove the threads of my life from the early 70's onward. I saw Martin Carthy a few summers ago, and he looked and sounded fabulous! I also had the opportunity to hear him with Blue Murder, the group he is in with his daughter Eliza, Norma and Mike Waterson, Barry Coope, Jim Boyes and Lester Simpson at the Cambridge Folk Festival up in your neck of the woods when I was there a few summers ago. Hugs, Ashara, lovin' this British music thread!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:36:58 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Bombing whatever NJC -- PC In the wake of 911, Congress gave the President temporary permission to do whatever he felt like. As I recall the oversimplification, they gave him temporary war powers, overriding their own right to vote up or down on military action. Many people were saying at the time it was a dangerous thing to do. One of the roles envisioned for Congress was to provide a "check" on the Executive branch. When they gave that away, it was a way to 1.) seem to be in favor of a military response (in the wrong direction!) and 2.) be able to wash their hands of any mess created. So here we are, blaming Iraq on President Bush. If he had taken this idea to Congress and they had shot it down, as they SHOULD HAVE, we wouldn't have American soldiers acting like sitting ducks (as an occupying force). No one in the Executive branch, not even retired General Colin Powell, was able to stare down the President. I think Powell knows the difference between right and wrong and tried to make the best of it. Being in the executive branch, everyone is supposed to follow the President. Congress is the watchdog and they let us down at least as much as the President. Maybe the Iraqis will be able to make some progress themselves after the elections. I wouldn't want to be a US contractor training their police force, that's for sure. Sincerely, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:18:20 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Jonifest 2004 Congratulations, Em!! You've just made the quota of newbie e-mails to be allowed to come to Jonifest!! :-) Just kidding, EVERYONE is invited to Jonifest!!!!!!!!!! It's only a few short months away now, so........if there is anyone out there planning on coming to Fest that hasn't gotten their deposit in, get on the stick this weekend, sign up, fill out your forms, and get your checks to Donna!! You DON'T want to be left out of this year's festivities. TRUST ME!!!!!!!!!!!!! For more info, go to: www.jonifest.com Hugs, Ashara, looking for Jonifest cheerleader backup ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:34:10 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: flick NJC Em wrote: > Was wondering, and I know there's a good chance you all may have > touched on this already and/or already discussed the heck out of it, > but did anyone see that movie "A Mighty Wind"?? Thats like a spoof of > the early folk scene?? > Anyway, it TICKLES me soooooooooo much. seen it like 4 times now and it > just makes me ROAR!!! which is a good thing...laughing is good...yep. > Saw it first on pay per view, since no local theatre here saw fit to > screen it (that I know of). Now its on HBO. > so, anybody else seen it?? its very silly I know... but.... > I think the one component of this flick and the other 2 by these same > people, SpinalTap and that one about he dog shows, is that they kinda > "embarass" a grin onto your face, that you *know* what they mean about > certain things. They draw out things we share in our heads. First of all, welcome to the JMDL! Things get a little heated here from time to time, but it's always interesting! I absolutely LOVE all of Christopher Guests films, particularly A Mighty Wind - and Bob's right, the extra bits on the DVD are well worth seeing. But I think my favourite is Waiting For Guffman - it just seems so much more "real" than the others, and as a result, much more amusing! I can't wait for the next effort - I wonder what he'll pick to parody? Maybe a group of people from an internet discussion list, who meet annually for a weekend somewhere ;o)?! Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a WHOLE NEW EXPERIENCE! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 02:42:44 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: April 9 On April 9 the following articles were published: 1997: "Long-lost daughter sings Mitchell's praises" - Toronto Sun (Reunion Story) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=85 2000: "Elton John, James Taylor Pay Tribute To Joni Mitchell" - SonicNet website (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=494 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #157 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)