From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #155 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, April 8 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 155 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: DJRD -- favorites? [Em ] Re: Joni's nude photo on FTR and the "kiss my ass" syndrom [Em ] Re: Bombing Mosques NJC ["tantra_apso" ] Re: DJRD -- favorites? ["Lori Fye" ] Joni's nude photo on FTR and the "kiss my ass" syndrom [TinkersOwn@aol.co] Re: Bush and the Bible, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Joni's nude photo on FTR and the "kiss my ass" syndrome ["Lori Fye" <] (NJC) Today I wrote ... ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Bombing Mosques NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Bombing whatever NJC -- PC [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Bush and the Bible, njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: DJRD -- favorites? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: images of a sunny sunday & Tennessee Williams/imagery in THOSL and more! [SCJoniGuy@ao] Re: Bush and the Bible, njc ["Lori Fye" ] RE: spanish "appeasers" was NJC "Bush Doctrine" and Kay ["patrick leader"] I hate getting older, njc ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Bush and the Bible, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: DJRD not sure if this needs a NJC or not, probably [Randy Remote Subject: Re: DJRD -- favorites? Hi Lori..hmm ok here goes. I like side 3 the best. I'm ok with the 10th world though I don't relate it to JM so much. It reminds me alot of Stewart Copeland's album "the Rhythmatist". the rest of it...ummmm..hmm..ok this to me is about moving through space more than keeping time. "Songs" keep time, usually quite tightly and predictably. These pieces (I don't preceive them as "songs") on record one are more like paintings to me...they don't chop up time, but they move through space. They pass through the day (in fine languid style); they don't "sieze" it. Guess I'm saying its alot more fluid than I'm used to...and again, it seems to be jazz, but dressed in the blue jeans and gingham of the strummed acoustic guitar, which I think threw me. Gotta listen again, I may be *soooooooo* freakin wrong, and I beg the pardon of anyone who knows I'm an idiot by what I've just said. Hey, I might be, about this! But I generally don't do real well with either rock-jazz fusions (Steely Dan being the huge exception) or folk-jazz fusions (some early Donovan and Jansch being exceptions). So I don't know what to make of it. I think its legitimate to say I need to spend some time with it and live with it awhile. Will give it another listen tomorrow. I guess I think its way "dry"...but its probably just that my candy grubbing butt can't handle it. I promise to give it another listen. Was that an ok answer Lori?? didn't mean to offend anyone at all, and certainly not JM. Wish I could see whats hangin' on her walls. thanks for puttin up with my drivel.. Em Or you know what--- Lori Fye wrote: > Okay Em, presumably you've listened to DJRD at least once now ... > what do you > like? (What do you dislike?) > > I don't really "dislike" anything on the set, although "The Tenth > World" is > generally agreed to be everyone's least favorite track. > > My personal faves are: > > Jericho > Off Night Backstreet > Cotton Avenue > Paprika Plains > The Silky Veils Of Ardor > > Lori ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:29:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Joni's nude photo on FTR and the "kiss my ass" syndrom - --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > I'm sure she didn't just want to show her ass to the world (or > maybe she did). Could anyone tell me what was the reaction when that > photo was released? The general reaction and your own, that is. My own reaction was "whoaaaaaaaaa", followed by a rush of hot blood to my crotch area. ::shrug:: just being honest! :D Em ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:39:01 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: Re: Bush and the Bible, njc According to the bible, Jesus said somehting like'many will call me Lord but I will not know them'. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 7:56 PM Subject: Re: Bush and the Bible, njc > Colin wrote: > > They don't want peace. They want Armageddon. They feel it is their God given > duty to bring it about. They feel they are fulfilling biblical prophecy. Death > and destruction is not the issue. After all, they will be safe with Jesus.... > > Hi Colin, > > Now there's a brilliant post! I don't know their Jesus... In my head I > can hear Dylan singing, "You know sometimes satan comes as a man of peace." > > Love, > Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:41:39 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: Re: Bombing Mosques NJC I listened to an American officer speaking on the TV and he was expressing what seemed like hurt and dismay that the Iraqi's would attack them.....! Would he expect a nice friendly welcome for an invading/occupying force? bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:08:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: DJRD -- favorites? > Was that an ok answer Lori?? didn't mean to offend anyone at all, and > certainly not JM. It's a GREAT answer, Em! Also, it's difficult to offend anyone here, at least in terms of a music discussion! As for offending Joni, I think she would appreciate your comments and pov! Lori, thinking about having a listen to DJRD with Em's comments in mind ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:14:06 EDT From: TinkersOwn@aol.com Subject: Joni's nude photo on FTR and the "kiss my ass" syndrom >Could anyone tell me what was the reaction when that >photo was released? The general reaction and your own, >that is. Well MY reaction was very positive! :) It didn't seem to cause much of a stir, otherwise. Strange to say, but I think nudity was much more accepted in the media then than now. Think of the original covers of Blind Faith and Electric Ladyland. Rolling Stone had full frontal male and female nudity scattered through its pages...like in the "Groupies" issue, or Leon Russell's Delta Lady ad. ################################################ Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA tinkersown@aol.com "The Tinker's Own" www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" www.thelivingtradition.org "Folk Alliance Region - West" www.far-west.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:16:29 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Bush and the Bible, njc In a message dated 4/7/04 6:47:33 PM Central Daylight Time, tantraapso@btopenworld.com writes: According to the bible, Jesus said somehting like'many will call me Lord but I will not know them'. Thanks for reminding me of this scripture Colin... It really makes sense in the light (or darkness!) of current events. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:24:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Joni's nude photo on FTR and the "kiss my ass" syndrome Nuriel asked: > As someone who knows nothing about the story behind this photo - do you > know what drove Joni to appear in nude on the beach photo inside FTR? I'm > sure she didn't just want to show her ass to the world (or maybe she did). > Could anyone tell me what was the reaction when that photo was released? > The general reaction and your own, that is. And who else had the guts to > do such a thing? (I can only recall Lenon and Ono doing that). Em responded: > My own reaction was "whoaaaaaaaaa", followed by a rush of hot blood to > my crotch area. > ::shrug:: > just being honest! LOL, Em! Why NOT be honest? I first saw the nude of Joni on FTR in 1978 or so, when I was house-sitting for a friend and scavenging through her record collection. I was still new to Joni (having just discovered JM via Hejira in the spring of 1977), and I hungered for any of her music. (That hasn't changed.) Since I wasn't "out" yet, not really even to myself, I can remember just STARING in wonder and awe (and something like a vague desire) at that photo. It's still one of my favorites (although it doesn't compare to the cover of the Poems & Lyrics book, imo; http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0609802186.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg for those who aren't familiar with it). The FTR nude says "longing for innocence" to me, for some reason. Or maybe "longing for clean water," given those paper plates Javex bottles on the tide ... Anyway, I loved it when I first saw it and I still do. As for the "general reaction" to the photo, I don't know about that but I seem to remember a thread here about how Joni's mom Myrtle wasn't too pleased about it! Nuriel also would like to know: > Another 'ass' photo that i would love to hear your opinon about is the one > on the cover of "Hits" (or is it "Misses") - where she's bending infront > of the car. It always reminded me of the "Kiss my ass, i said" lyric from > Lead Baloon. No doubt there's a statement in that pic. As for the "butt shot" on "Misses," I can see Joni thinking she wanted to say "kiss my ass" to everyone who didn't appreciate those songs the first time around -- especially the record companies that didn't promote them. Considering she had probably already written "Lead Balloon" and was about to release TTT, it makes sense that "kiss my ass" is exactly what she was saying. Lori, happy to be engaging in some Joni content for a change ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:27:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lori Fye" Subject: (NJC) Today I wrote ... in a passionate moment: "dessimate." Of course I MEANT "decimate." Lori, with apologies to the English language junkies : ) NP: someone curdling a song on American Idol ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:34:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Bombing Mosques NJC Colin wrote: > I listened to an American officer speaking on the TV and he was expressing > what seemed like hurt and dismay that the Iraqi's would attack them.....! > Would he expect a nice friendly welcome for an invading/occupying force? In a word: yes. American military forces are just utterly bewildered by the resistance, it seems. They just don't understand that WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT to do what we're doing in Iraq. "Why won't those sand niggers just let us overrun their country and install the 'right' government for them?!" It's that same old Manifest Destiny bullshit that's been happening since before Columbus came to the New World. The whole thing just gets more sickening with every passing day. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:42:33 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Bombing whatever NJC -- PC Colin writes: << I listened to an American officer speaking on the TV and he was expressing what seemed like hurt and dismay that the Iraqi's would attack them.....! >> This doesn't surprise me at all, Colin. Nor am I surprised when I hear foreigners say that it's not Americans they hate or fear, it's our government. Say what you want about Americans, but I think we're basically good hearted people who want to help out the underdog. On the negative side I would say that most of us are naive or even stupid when it comes to any world issues, cultural differences, politics, and even basic geography. Another thing is, the overwhelming majority of men and women who enlist in the military are from the middle and lower classes and are in the service because it is the best employment they can find in bad economic times, and/or they are attracted by the education and job training benefits they can receive. Although I am sure there are a few exceptions, most people who enlist do not have topnotch colleges and universities offering them scholarships, or parents who can afford to give their children the best education this country has to offer. Most enlisted people would likely be products of American public schools which, especially in poor and middle-class neighborhoods, would not have prepared these young people for much more than the military or minimum-wage jobs. There are, of course, exceptions to everything I am saying. But in my opinion, most of the men and women in the American military would most likely be loyal, trusting, and kind people who aren't particularly astute when it comes to complex world issues. This probably applies in a general way to military people anywhere in the world -- and throughout history. Who has ever heard of an army that wanted mature, intelligent recruits? They wouldn't be too great at taking orders -- they'd say, "You want me to WHAT?!" And so it goes. With the exception of our ability to do more and more harm to each other, nothing ever really changes. Our differences are never put behind us. Wars never end. And somewhere in a foreign land an officer can't understand why people don't appreciate the sacrifices he's making for them. - --Smurf, spinning along with everyone else on the ball of confusion ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:54:56 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Bush and the Bible, njc **Thanks for reminding me of this scripture Colin... It really makes sense in the light (or darkness!) of current events. What I *really* don't get...what makes absolutely ZERO sense to me, is that the religious right is blammo 100% behind Bush and our terrorism, but Jesus (the "Christ" in Christian if I'm not mistaken) CLEARLY states in his sermon on the mount (Matthew 5-6) that we are to love our enemies, and pray for those who persecute us, and if someone strikes you on one cheek, to offer them the other. Maybe it's naive to think that could/would ever happen, but it IS what the dude said. My understanding and study of this amazing sermon is that it's impossible for us to EARN grace, but still I believe that Jesus does give us some fundamental foundations that we can base out behavior on. And for whatever reason, the same folks who can quote Leviticus chapter & verse to spread hatred and discrimination just totally breeze by what Jesus said directly! In my thinking, those who call themselves followers of Christ should be outraged by the way our government is behaving, but instead the opposite is true. This more than anything is what's fueling my frustration with religion today. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:58:00 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: DJRD -- favorites? **ok this to me is about moving through space more than keeping time. What a cool statement, Em...far from being offended, I think you really nailed the way this album flows. It does have a sense of being otherworldly almost and moving while time stands still or is a seperate entity altogether. I think she was really focusing on dreams on DJRD, and that carries over into the sonics of the record. Keep listening, and keep talking. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:59:44 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: images of a sunny sunday & Tennessee Williams/imagery in THOSL and more! Glad to see your mail back in my inbox, Owen. Keep 'em coming. I love all the fish imagery, I guess I never made that connection. There is so much context and subcontext on that record, it could be a college course all by itself. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:06:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Bush and the Bible, njc > In my thinking, those who call themselves followers of Christ should be > outraged by the way our government is behaving, but instead the opposite > is true. This more than anything is what's fueling my frustration with > religion today. Rest assured, Bob, that if there is a hell, when it's time for judgment these people's souls (if indeed they have such) will be roasting there. This, I really do believe. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:22:27 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: spanish "appeasers" was NJC "Bush Doctrine" and Kay dear gillian (and mike in barcelona, and any other posters from spain): please rest assured that many of us united statesian posters know plenty about why the PP lost. we followed the pre-elections stories, with the party's attempts to misdirect blame for the madrid tragedies, and had a terrible sense of deja vu, remembering the bush folks' lies about the supposed connections between 9/11 and iraq. i've personally been wishing that the bush administration would look and say, "maybe we should be honest with the voters." i'm not hopeful. but our conservative commentators, david brooks and william safire for the new york times and andrew sullivan, among many others, have been really flogging the 'spanish voters are terrorist appeasers' idea. do you want to know why? conservatives are terrified that there will be an attack on the u.s. before our presidential election in november and that people will think that bush hasn't done enough to fight terrorism. and they're probably right. so they're trying to plant the seed 'a vote against bush means the terrorists win" it's completely disgusting how often you see this message, in newspaper editorials, blogs etc. david brooks may happily go into the voting booth in november, pondering before his vote "is this what al qaeda wants?" i won't. i'll vote my own security. i'll vote against bush for many reasons, the first being "he failed to protect me". if there's another attack, and i live to vote (and i tell you, given this administration's incompetence and denial, i REALLY don't like my chances living here in ny) it'll be stronger: "he failed twice." and i will not think much of anyone, on this list or off, who votes for bush if there's another attack. patrick np - bruce brubaker, solo piano transcription of pat's aria from john adams' opera 'nixon in china' ps. kay, dear, i hope you saw how loved and needed you are on this list... whether jc or not. "the child is so sweet, and the girls are so rapturous. isn't it lovely how artists can capture us?" 'children and art', from sondheim's 'sunday in the park with george' pss. for you spanish folk, i hope you also know that 'socialist' the word has also been terribly spun here in the states. socialist has been a dirty word here n the united states for 30 years, and most united statesian listeners are not able to understand that your socialist democrats are only moderately to the left of our left. (i suspect kay does understand the difference, but also understands how a 'socialist' victory gets reported here. i heard richard perle, one of our most psychotic bush admin insiders, on npr just after the election, and he said 'socialist' several times as if he's just sucked bull piss. made a point of it. that's how our conservatives have highjacked the word. it's not pretty.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:54:33 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: I hate getting older, njc I think I'm getting older. It started when I had to get bifocals at 43. At the end of the day, I'm totally exhausted. Every day. Anybody else feel like that? All the best, Lama (who just pranked the list but still....) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:02:31 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Bush and the Bible, njc SCJoniGuy writes: In my thinking, those who call themselves followers of Christ should be outraged by the way our government is behaving, but instead the opposite is true. This more than anything is what's fueling my frustration with religion today. Hi Bob, I know one well known follower of Christ who has consistently spoken out what our government has done in regard to Iraq. Here is what he wrote early on, in January of 2003: "NO TO WAR"! War is not always inevitable. It is always a defeat for humanity. International law, honest dialogue, solidarity between States, the noble exercise of diplomacy: these are methods worthy of individuals and nations in resolving their differences. I say this as I think of those who still place their trust in nuclear weapons and of the all-too-numerous conflicts which continue to hold hostage our brothers and sisters in humanity.... Without needing to repeat what I said to you last year on this occasion, I will simply add today, faced with the constant degeneration of the crisis in the Middle East, that the solution will never be imposed by recourse to terrorism or armed conflict, as if military victories could be the solution. And what are we to say of the threat of a war which could strike the people of Iraq, the land of the Prophets, a people already sorely tried by more than twelve years of embargo? War is never just another means that one can choose to employ for settling differences between nations. As the Charter of the United Nations Organization and international law itself remind us, war cannot be decided upon, even when it is a matter of ensuring the common good, except as the very last option and in accordance with very strict conditions, without ignoring the consequences for the civilian population both during and after the military operations. War itself is an attack on human life since it brings in its wake suffering and death. The battle for peace is always a battle for life! In regard to Bush's ideas about God being for the war, he said: "God is a neutral observer in the affairs of man," the Pope said. "Man cannot march into war and assume God will be at his side." Amen!!! Love and peace, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:06:43 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: DJRD not sure if this needs a NJC or not, probably Em wrote: > > ps: Aunty Em's little old stereo (like anyone cares) = late 60's Sansui > control amp and receiver w/ a round green dial that some old guy > brought back from Japan. Late 70's JBL L-40's, they're decent - nothing > more. Radio Shack turntable but a very good one. Onkyo power amp. This > system shines old bad records "pretty" well This is a hot little setup! I used to have a Shack turntable, too, and it was quite good, actually made by BSR. Nice setup to listen to DJRD, my essential Desert Island Joni album. One thing that's cool about it is it's minimalism-sometimes just her and Jaco, plenty of space and plenty of BASS! Hell, I'm going to have to pull it out-first I gotta redo the cables on my stereo setup. Anyway, welcome to the list, and glad you have a kickin' setup for your tunes. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:55:10 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Subject: Re: hello, newbie intro I'll say. Today, I saw a photo of broodmares and I've been thinking about "Coyote" ever since. Who else would use the word "broodmare" in a song? Who else would use the word "ascending" in a song? Who else would use the word "comprehending" in a song? In the hands of anyone else, the song would have to be *about* the word choices, a goof, a novelty of a love song about using stilted language. Those words run completely against the accepted wisdom that songs should be written as if by an "enlightened farmer". (Who said that anyway?) One more thing. I saw Joni do Amelia and Coyote at the Rolling Thunder Revue. I bought the 2 cd set of Dylan tracks from that series of shows. What I will remember about that show for the rest of my days was this: Early in the evening, there were various folk and blues oriented folks who did one or two songs apiece. At one point, the medicine show curtain was closed when Joan Baez' clear voice came over the PA unexpectedly: "how many times...." Staring at the closed curtain, the audience began to applaud. Then a male voice... "before they're forever banned?" Dylan. They were trading vocals, unseen. The applause jumped. Two voices... "the answer my friends." Baez and Dylan were singing together. They were in the room but unseen. They were restoring hope in the wake of the 60s disillusionment. Slowly, the curtain rose. Slowly, very slowly, the voices were made flesh. The audience was electrified. There was whistling and thunderous applause. I wish everyone here on the JMDL had been there. Bringing the story is the only thing I can offer. Jim np: someone on the radio doing their own version of Emmylou's "One Big Love" and it strikes me as a good idea. I'm glad she's writing. Gosh, some people have so many talents it is just hard to fathom why the Maker isn't a bit more... democratic. Bob Muller in South Carolina, USA said, >Good luck in discovering post-MOA (Miles Of Aisles) Joni. It's actually when she did her best work.> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:14:15 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) What do you mean, they're not available for comment? US forces were being SHOT AT from the building for weeks. The mosque had been used for cover for weeks. What kind of religious person uses a place of worship as a fortress? Besides a terrorist, I mean. Jim L'Hommedieu rflynn quoted the globalandmail.com with >"U.S. troops battled insurgents in two central Iraqi towns Wednesday, with 40 Iraqis reportedly being killed in a single air strike on a mosque in Fallujah, a stronghold of Sunni resistance near Baghdad. Witnesses said that a U.S. helicopter gunship hit the mosque with three missiles. U.S. officials were unavailable for comment."> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 02:27:05 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: April 8 On April 8 the following articles were published: 1976: "The Hissing of Winter Concerts" - Rolling Stone (Review - Concert, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1 1997: "Both Sides at Last" - Los Angeles Times (Reunion Story, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=83 1997: "E-mail Reunited Joni and Daughter" - E! Online (Reunion Story) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=713 1997: "How Joni Mitchell's daughter found mom and became whole" - Toronto Sun (Reunion Story) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=82 1997: "Joni's Lover Hopes to Meet Daughter" - Toronto Sun (Reunion Story) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=80 1997: "Looking at Joni From Another Side" - Toronto Sun (Reunion Story) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=79 1997: "Singer Joni Mitchell Found By Daughter On Internet" - Reuters/Variety (Reunion Story) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=81 2000: "Poetic Doyenne Holds Court With an Enduring Spark" - New York Times (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=492 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #155 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)