From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #153 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, April 7 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 153 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- welcome NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) ["tantra_apso" ] Re: Kay Ashley's brilliant post njc ["Kate Bennett" ] re: NJC Tori Amos NEW DVD!! [Garret ] Re: welcome NJC [Em ] re: hello, newbie intro [Garret ] re: Krall's new baby - fecking brilliant [Garret ] Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] More thanks!!! (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: RS list NJC [Em ] re: hello, newbie intro now NJC and orgasm thing [Em ] Re: images of a sunny sunday [magsnbrei ] Re: Krall's new baby - fecking brilliant [Ken ] Re: Cute article on Joni, Joan & Judy [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: RS list =?ISO-8859-1?B?oCCgIKBOSkM=?= [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) ["Kay Ashley" ] Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) ["Lucy Hone" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:04:07 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: welcome NJC Hey Em you are going to enjoy the list. I shared a room with Lori at FEST last year. She is great fun and we laughed ourselves sick... She is just soooooooo damned funny Just tell Lori you have heard from Lucy in England.. she will fill you in. What I am writing about is the last tiny little bit on your post... The minataur gets very sore... (If I remember rightly the rest of it goes.......) his features they are such a bore, his habits are predict a bull aggressively rely a bull...... WOW... it is rare to find a any person who knows the Incredible String Band I loved the Hangmans Beautiful Daughter... I also had U, Liquid Acrobat as regards the Air and Changing Horses (I think) You have an eclectic taste in music and I am sure you will enjoy the list. As to bikes,, my partner Frank, has two Kawasakis and I am going to do my course this year and learn to ride a motorbike (I am fed up with reading the kite marks and safety regs on his crash helmet). Next door neighbours both have Harleys ....she has a Centenary Sportster and he has a FAt BOY.. WElcome to the list and the only thing to remember is if there is NO JONI CONTENT then always put NJC after the title of the post... thats the main thing I forgot for a while and upset the Joni Onlys with some posts about transgender... All the best Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:45:49 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) It's a shame we do not hear from you more often Kay. Your post sent a chill thru me. I think we are in WW3 now. Only it is different than we expected. I think, perhaps, that people don't understand what Bush is doing. His actions are base don his fundy beliefs and those of his cronies. They don't want peace. They want Armageddon. They feel it is their God given duty to bring it about. They feel they are fulfilling biblical prophecy. Death and destruction is not the issue. After all, they will be safe with Jesus.... bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:08:25 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: Spring Greetins Good to see you posting again. > Other than these depths I am fine and still open to a lover good for you! Sharing is wonderful - Have a great > day! and you > bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:09:57 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Kay Ashley's brilliant post njc Lori, thank you so much for finding all these & posting them... I just finished reading them all... Every bit of every single post was so incredibly moving... As painful as it was, there was such a stunning brilliance & beauty in these posts... I hope others will take the time to read them too... Lori> Kay, I hope you won't mind if I offer to the rest of the list the link that leads to the post Mags has referenced. I'm with Mags -- it is truly a riveting and powerful piece of writing. http://www.mail-archive.com/joni@jmdl.com/msg01243.html Other NYC listers Debra, Patrick, and Emily also wrote very powerfully about that day. Their posts, along with another from Kay, can be found at these links: http://www.mail-archive.com/joni@jmdl.com/msg01368.html http://www.mail-archive.com/joni@jmdl.com/msg01509.html http://www.mail-archive.com/joni@jmdl.com/msg01511.html http://www.mail-archive.com/joni@jmdl.com/msg01605.html http://www.mail-archive.com/joni@jmdl.com/msg02164.html http://www.mail-archive.com/joni@jmdl.com/msg02374.html < Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:39:25 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) Colin you have a wonderful sting in your tail!!!! I am glad you are on our side! See Below... - ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) BIG EDIT..... THEN.... They feel they are fulfilling biblical prophecy. Death and > destruction is not the issue. After all, they will be safe with Jesus.... GOOD ONE COLIN... Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:16:27 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: images of a sunny sunday **all in all, one very powerful song, no matter how you look at it. It sure is, Mags...thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think this is probably one of those Joni songs that we can easily place ourselves into, having been in any situation that we wanted out of. I've always thought of shotting the streetlight as a crutch, an excuse. She's not strong enough to leave on her own, so she invents something so that she can convince herself that she's not staying because of her own weakness but rather because she missed the streetlight again. Of course, even if she's as bad a shot as I am (I assume I am, I've never shot a gun) one day she's gonna hit that light...then what will she do? Do you think she'll leave? I don't. I think she'll say "2 out of 3" or some such. Bob NP: The Vines ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:19:29 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: hello, newbie intro Welcome Em - I thought at first that you were an Eminem fan. Yes, we have them here, myself included. Good luck in discovering post-MOA (Miles Of Aisles) Joni. It's actually when she did her best work. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:21:48 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: images of a sunny sunday Bob wrote: <> Yes, I have always thought this as well. <> Again, my thoughts exactly. It's such a sad song. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:32:26 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: RS list **On the other hand, the list was probably compiled by an ad hoc group and not by the editors of RS. Well, it is a pretty small group. It includes some RS guys (Kurt Loder, Jann Wenner, Greil Marcus, James Henke, David Fricke, others), some musicians (Keith Richards, Bruce Springsteen, Stephen Stills, Jackson Browne, others), some Music Execs (Rick Rubin, David Geffen, Jerry Wexler, Seymour Stein, others) and some non-music celebs as well (Quentin Tarantino). Probably about 20% have direct affiliation with RS. Of the 55 voters, only TWO...TWO! are women (Lucinda Williams & Chrissie Hynde), both of whom hold Joni in VERY high regard. Like my wife teaches in her statistics classes, this kind of bias is going to produce some very skewed results. RS, like American politics, likes to have women around but doesn't appreciate them in decision-making settings. That being said, it's really a shame that RS f*cked up and made such an incredible ommission. I started reading it today, and the pieces (in spite of what I said yesterday) are very enjoyable, because it's not the usual stuff. You get Elvis Costello writing about The Beatles, Robbie Robertson writing about Dylan, Van Morrison writing about Ray Charles. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:50:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: hello, newbie intro/Lori! - --- Lori Fye wrote: > Since I sorta got you into this, Em, let me be one of the first to > say > HELLO! and welcome home! You'll fit right in here! Hey good morning Lori and thanks for the welcome and for bringing me here. > Was Miles of Aisles your last JM album? Sounds like you've got LOTS > of catching up to do! I seem to have one later one too, cuz I saw the spine of it among my records last night. Whichever has "Dreamland" on it. Went out and bought it specifically to have Joni's version too, having fallen in love with McGuinn's version. Not sure what album it is, gotta look...the bottom 2/3 or so of the spine is blue and the top is like an Indian red. (hate to call the color that, but its an oil paint color - not so PC huh?) I'm a total folkie at heart, so I am way waaaaaaaaay attracted to her early all acoustic pre-jazz albums. > : ) Meanwhile, tell us more -- how did you discover Joni? I *think* I was aware of her from the early 70's when I was listening to lots of Joan and Judy, lol, guess I don't need to use last names around this place.. and was aware of JM, but my (at the time) bubble gum-wanting little brain couldn't latch onto the art, and sometimes difficult listening of JM's stuff (i.e. it had an edge I couldn't handle at that early age). Then in the late 70's I met a friend, a singer, who can actually sing JM's stuff really WELL!!!! and so I was quite "dipped" in that material for several years. I can just hear her sing "scum brown fever in the bathroom bowl" while people in the club are eating nachos, or however that lyric goes...lol!!!!!! you guys please forgive me..not knowing my stuff just right. I can remember going to my friend's gigs and being amazed at the vocal range you need to render "Carey" successfully. And how ridiculous it sounds if I try to do it! And how much fun it is to play that on the guitar! Anyway, I'm in a good music listening place in my life again, as I've started painting again and thats the best "headspace" for me for listening to music. So maybe this afternoon, I'll tweeze that album out of the stacks, the one with the red on top and blue lower portion and see which one it actually is, and play the whole thing. Give the turntable a workout. In the meantime Lori (or anyone), if you'd like to recommend a new work by Joni, I'd be happy to give a listen. I'm also now more in a place where I *could* listen to jazz. Good painting music sometimes. And sometime, I'd like to hear how YOU, Lori, discovered Joni? Happy Wednesday all. :) Em ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:18:13 +0100 From: Garret Subject: re: NJC Tori Amos NEW DVD!! Thanks for posting this Steve!! I used to be able to keep up with new releasespretty well, but since i've stopped buying musics mag's (read: rags) i'm totally out of the loop! I'll have to save up the pennies for it surely, but it sounds great! Tori is one person that i've always wanted to see live but have just never quite made it. She seems to never play Ireland. SInce i arrived in London she played once, but it was announced the day before and the tickets were going on sale for cash only at the venue the day of the gig. I had a bit of a wild night on the town before that so didn't get up early and figured it would sell out immediately. There's always a next time:-) I can be consoled with a good dvd! GARRET np - patti smith, Peaceable Kingdom, live (from the recent ULU gig i was at; i love this song. today i got the bootlegs of the two gigs and they are great. there is filler on one of the discs of Patti on the Jonny Wlaker show, radio 2. they played two cuts from the forthcoming album and it sounds great; the new songs she played at the two gigs are very promising! so i've now got two forthcoming things on the list! and might just invest in the newest janet jackson, but it has not been well received. ok, ill stop;-) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:28:03 +0100 From: "amelio747" Subject: Sounds like this one's gonna' be amazing! I also heard there will be a DVD of all her vids later in the year! Forwarded from thedent... 'Welcome To Sunny Florida' DVD/CD Updated April 5, 2004 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 05:39:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: welcome NJC - --- Lucy Hone wrote: > Hey Em you are going to enjoy the list. I shared a room with Lori at > FEST last > year. She is great fun and we laughed ourselves sick... She is just > soooooooo > damned funny Hi Lucy, nice to meet you. Yes Lori is a trip. Got to met her and Mary in January out in Arizona. They are both fun and I wish I had gotten to spend more time with them. I came away with the feeling of having just scratched the surface. > What I am writing about is the last tiny little bit on your post... > > The minataur gets very sore... > > (If I remember rightly the rest of it goes.......) > > his features they are such a bore, > his habits are predict a bull > aggressively rely a bull...... > > WOW... it is rare to find a any person who knows the Incredible > String Band Yep those are the lyrics! ISB was sooo very "different". Then I liked some of Robin Williamson's solo stuff too. I have the 2 albums you mentioned but also have a sort of "greatest hits" of the ISB that I listen to. I like alot of Brit folk and folk-rock...Pentangle just makes my heart leap and fly, and Renbourn's solo stuff..love Bert Jansch's guitar playing. Also Steeleye Span although their stuff is heavy handed a bit sometimes. Remember that group "Rennaisance"? :) I'm stoked that you know the Incredible String Band....the Minotaur Song to me is a jewel. As to bikes,, my partner Frank, has two Kawasakis and I am going to > do my > course this year and learn to ride a motorbike (I am fed up with > reading the > kite marks and safety regs on his crash helmet) Hey best of luck on this! Its alot of fun for sure. Lori (as you probably know) just took the course and I know she's looking forward to getting her "knees in the breeze", as it were. It definately feels good. Well except when you're, (to quote Steeleye Span's "Blackjack Davey") "cold and wet and weary".... so it feels good except when it feels really baaaaad. Nice talking to you! Have a great day.. :) Em ps also thanks for the heads-up on adding the NJC, hope I remember ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:27:45 +0100 From: Garret Subject: re: hello, newbie intro Hi there aunty Em, great to have yo on board! I hope it's as much fun for you as it is for me! One of my favourite things is the constant direction to new music (tip of the hat to Ashara's recent post!! well said lady, and i hope you too are well). I love the way you word your idea of the tree of music related to CSNY. It is *exactly* what i have in my head but have trouble converting to words. CSNY are not my reference point; this would be Joni and Patti Smith (any feelings, eh?;-) Between them they have directed me towards so much of what i now love, including Neil Young - am working slowly towards CSNY:-) again, welcome to the list! GARRET np- Patti Smith, Gandhi, live Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:19:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: hello, newbie intro Hi folks, am finally properly subscribed it would appear. Glad to be among you all! Read some in the archives and, especially musically, you all seem to have it going on really right up my alley. Anyway I got here via lister Lori Fye, (HI LORI!) who I know through a list for wayward women who ride motorcycles. My musical heart seems to beat louder when its around music from the "cusp" of 69-70, not sure why. I'm 44 so I was like 10 then. My first "real" album was the play soundtrack to "HAIR", whatta trip, parents took it *away* for a few years then I stole it back. My second real album was a radio station only live album of CSNY - and I've never again heard those versions of the songs. "Ohio" was on it. Its long gone. My main lyrical "heart" is given to Mr. Bob Dylan, and e'er more shall. He's just tattoed on my brain. I should fess up and say I don't really know what JM is up to these days...her stuff up to about "Miles of Isles" is also mother's milk to me though. Anyone you could possibly include in the "tree" of music related to anything CSNY (which is a HUGE tree with magnificent roots, no?) is mother's milk for me. You can even connect, like Gram Parsons, and therfore Emmylou Harris and it just grows outward and outward. In fact, just today the UPS guy dropped off my new "White Falcon" t-shirt from Gretschgear.com. ;) Anyway, just saying hi, and thanks Lori, for telling me about this place. Thanks for letting me hang out. Aunty Em ps when you get an email how do you reply back to the list?? when I hit "reply" it was gonna reply just to the poster, and not to the list - so I had to copy and paste the list email in the "TO" area. Is that normal?? ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:37:40 +0100 From: Garret Subject: re: Krall's new baby - fecking brilliant Diana Krall is an odd one for me. Sometimes she appeals to me a lot, but other times she sounds pretty mediocre. I have always felt that she just needs to let loose and all that. Is this the one? I read a quick review in Time Out london. They said something along the lines of "diana krall is dropping that discomfort she seems to exhibit on previous albums, including the slutty dresses she wears on the covers. BLAH BLAH BLAH the heart of the album are the six songs she co-wrote with Elvis Costello. she does justice to her odd choice of covers (tom waits, joni mitchell etc)" totally paraphrased from a vague memory. GARRET Np- Gillian Welch, Time (the revelator) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:59:48 -0400 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Krall's new baby - fecking brilliant Just laying back and listening to Krall's new CD, The Girl in the Other Room, on CBC radio 2 tonight, what can I say ? This CD has the guts we've been waiting for from Diana. Great bluesy feel to the piano and voice. The new compositions are great, as are the Costello covers. Of course, she just about outdoes Joni on Black Crow. Funny how the piano and guitar retains an 80's feel on this tune. Diana mentioed Joni at least two times in the interview - - -placing her in the pantheon of the greats - which, of course, we've known all along :- ) Michael in Quebec - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:53:08 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) It is posts like these that distinguish this list from all others. The next time we get some whiney complaint from someone subbed for three days about what is wrong with the list, send them Kay's post. Whether you agree with her, or not, it is heart-felt, elegant, and magnificent. Jerry NP/W : Blondie on the Today Show ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:01:04 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: welcome NJC Em, the newbie wrote: <> YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Another Steeleye Span fan!!!!!!!!! Jack are you THERE???? Are you hearing this???????? Hugs, Happy Ashara, always willing to sing Steeleye Span's praises! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 06:11:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: hello, newbie intro - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Welcome Em - I thought at first that you were an Eminem fan. Yes, we > have > them here, myself included. Hi Bob, thanks for the welcome! hmm Eminem, nah, weirdly tho, I like Kid Rock. ::shrug:: go figure. I know some good people like Eminem so there must be something "to it". Although I think as a gay person, I was *supposed* to be real offended by something he sang?? dunno what it was.... > Good luck in discovering post-MOA (Miles Of Aisles) Joni. It's > actually when > she did her best work. Well alrighty then! I actually adore having backlogs of new music to discover; thanks for the tip. :) Em ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:14:13 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: More thanks!!! (NJC) Garret said: <> I am well, Garret, thanks! And this brings me to another JMDL thank you. As many times as I've had the distinct pleasure of meeting people from this list, it still always amazes me how right "at home" I feel the minute I meet someone from this list. Wherever I go in the world (Australia, England, all over the US, etc.) I know there are listers willing to greet me with open arms. But another HUGE thank you to those of you on the list that have helped me with pronunciations throughout the years. Some of you may know that I am in a "World Music" band, and I sing in (at this point) 17 different languages. I try to work closely with people that speak these languages so I can sing the words as close as possible to honor the language. For many reasons, sometimes it takes many years before a song comes to fruition. Several years ago, Wally helped me with a Gallithian song, "Eno Sa Grado." A few summers ago, while at Chris Marshall's house in Cambridge for a JMDL gathering, Garret and his friend helped me with a song called "Fear a Bhata." We *finally* put this song together and it had it's debut this past Saturday. It went over really well!! So.......a big THANK YOU again for all of you that reach out in so many ways. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 06:16:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: RS list NJC Hi, was wondering, where I could find this list? is it on the web somewhere? thanks! Aunty Em ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 06:32:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: re: hello, newbie intro now NJC and orgasm thing - --- Garret wrote: > > I love the way you word your idea of the tree of music related to > CSNY. It is > *exactly* what i have in my head but have trouble converting to > words. CSNY are > not my reference point; this would be Joni and Patti Smith (any > feelings, eh?;-) > Between them they have directed me towards so much of what i now > love, > including Neil Young - am working slowly towards CSNY:-) Hi Garret, thanks for welcoming me. Very glad to be here. I think the thing is, you can somehow connect almost anything however indirectly to CSNY, even Patti Smith! There's probably a more direct route, but lets just say, CSNY relates to Byrds, relates to GP, relates to Emmylou Harris relates very lightly to Dylan (sang backup on desire) and Mr. D relates to Patti Smith as a huge influence on her, and her co-poet. Its so weird..you can tie almost snything to CSNY. Not sure its "their" tree...not that things generate "from" them, per se..its just all related somehow if I look. So, yeah, Neil....hehehhhh, thats why I bought the Gretsch White Falcon t-shirt.... ;) altho Neil is another one I'm guilty of not listening to the new stuff... Stars and Bars and Comes a Time are about the last ones I went out and bought on vinyl "back then" and then have replaced some with CD's. Anyway, you all were having that orgasm discussion...seems to me Patti musta had at least a small one sometime during the recording of either Horses or Radio E. or??? "do you know how to pony"...certainly a very near orgasmic rush of rock and roll. hokay, back to work now! have a great day! Em :) ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 06:46:37 -0700 (PDT) From: magsnbrei Subject: Re: images of a sunny sunday **all in all, one very powerful song, no matter how you look at it. to my above quote my bro Bob replied with: It sure is, Mags...thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think this is probably one of those Joni songs that we can easily place ourselves into, having been in any situation that we wanted out of. I've always thought of shotting the streetlight as a crutch, an excuse. She's not strong enough to leave on her own, so she invents something so that she can convince herself that she's not staying because of her own weakness but rather because she missed the streetlight again. I hear ya bro. I see the streetlight scenario like this, not so much a crutch, more like a focal point. Perhaps she's got this mantra going on inside her blurry vision (not being 'able' to leave) so it's a bull's eye or a street light or whatever she fixes her temporary focus on. The mantra that might go over and over again something like this ...gathering courage like dust in the doorway, it piles up at her feet. She might get psyched up when she sees her target right there in front of her and think (again and again in the same situation) to herself okay .. today's the day...if I hit this target, I'll leave. again, a powerful song. Of course, even if she's as bad a shot as I am (I assume I am, I've never shot a gun) one day she's gonna hit that light...then what will she do? Do you think she'll leave? I don't. I think she'll say "2 out of 3" or some such. good question.! I'd like to say yes in the hope that she will..but you know how it goes. It ain't easy babe. thanks for the reply. Joni encourages us to tell her what a song means to us, rather than giving her impressions. Mags np: calling all angels (on xpn) ***** your absence has gone through me like thread through a needle everything i do is stitched with its colour. w.s.merwin Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:00:22 -0400 From: Ken Subject: Re: Krall's new baby - fecking brilliant Just finished listening to D.K.'s new one. Had to hear it on tape as I couldn't listen last night. Some great songs on this CD. I loved Resolution Bay and Black Crow and the bluesy Girl In The Other Room. This is the first time that Krall has written lyrics as near as I can tell and she has done a fine job. What a fine day for music. New Diana Krall on tape this morning and Sarah Hammer on TV this afternoon. Ken michael o'malley wrote: >Just laying back and listening to Krall's new CD, The Girl in the Other Room, >on CBC radio 2 tonight, what can I say ? This CD has the guts we've been >waiting for from Diana. Great bluesy feel to the piano and voice. The new >compositions are great, as are the Costello covers. Of course, she just about >outdoes Joni on Black Crow. Funny how the piano and guitar retains an 80's >feel on this tune. Diana mentioed Joni at least two times in the interview >-placing her in the pantheon of the greats - which, of course, we've known all >along :- ) > >Michael in Quebec ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:18:10 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Cute article on Joni, Joan & Judy That *was* a really cute article, Bryan, thanks for sharing it! Hugs, Ashara, ducking from the Me Too police ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:37:25 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: RS list =?ISO-8859-1?B?oCCgIKBOSkM=?= **Hi, was wondering, where I could find this list? is it on the web somewhere? Em, here is the list of "Immortals" along with the pieces written about each one: http://www.rollingstone.com/features/coverstory/featuregen.asp?pid=2846 I don't see that they disclose the panel who determined the selections, though...it's listed in the magazine. And you just THOUGHT you were going to get some work done. ;~) Bob NP: Dark One Lite, "American Girls" (from the Counting Crows Tribute that I bought to get a BYT cover!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:40:58 -0400 From: "Kay Ashley" Subject: Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) Thanks to everyone who responded so positively to my post. I got the warm fuzzies from all the people who made me feel so welcome again, despite my terrible record as a lister! :-) And, like Lucy, I hope that all you who attended JoniFest last year are practicing your KAYzoos!! There will be yet more enforced recreation this year!!! Azeem, what you wrote (see below) was a point well taken -- I should have taken the time to clarify my point about Afghanistan. I should have made it clear that my use of the term "known culprit" was really in reference to the fact that the Al Qaeda training camps were known to be in Afghanistan (Why? Because we helped build them! Hot diggity damn, am I ever proud to be from Texas!!). I do think it was legitimate to strike the training camps, though clearly we've made a big fat mess of it, and are not following through. Re: Saudi Arabia, again, point well taken. Willful blindness is one of this country's strongest suits. I mean, why read "The Nation", when you can watch "Average Joe" make out with barbie dolls and watch "American Idol" turn the music industry into even more of a mockery of "art" than it already is? Truly, the barbarians are at the gates... Later, dudes! Kay :-) In a message dated 06/04/2004 20:04:43 GMT Daylight Time, kay.ashley@willis.com writes: << I have some really strong feelings about the Bush Doctrine, and I feel that my experiences as a New Yorker give my views a certain weight, if you can pardon the hubris. You long timers who know me, know what my experiences were on 9/11. I will not get into it here again. Those of you who are newer probably have no idea who I am, since I am a very inconsistent poster. So in a nutshell, I will tell you that I am an avowed lefty who lives in NYC and who lost many friends on that horrible day. >> This is indeed a magnificent post, Kay. I suppose this is a "me too" post really, although there is one point you make with which I would quibble, and that is that Afghanistan was the culprit for 9/11. I don't believe that this has been proven. And I think it's the case that the vast majority of the suspected perpetrators were Saudis. Saudi Arabia is a non-democracy where women have few rights, people are publicly flogged and executed for what most westerners would consider relatively minor crimes, etc etc. The West supports them anyway. Funny, that. Azeem in London _____________________________________________________________ The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems and notify the sender immediately. You should not retain, copy or use this email for any purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its content to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:50:19 -0400 From: "Kay Ashley" Subject: Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) Hi Colin! I think that you make an excellent point about the religious prophecy thing. John Ashcroft is a real holy roller type who honestly believes that we are approaching end days, or whatever the hell they call it, and I also think you are right that some of them (certainly Ashcroft, though I'm not sure who else) view it as their religious duty to expedite it. I think that this point is lost on most Americans. Most people don't want to think about the fact that more than a few of the people running this country are just as radical as Bin Laden. Asscraft (sic) in particular has more in common with Bin Laden than he would ever care to examine. Though he does deserve some compassion, I suppose. Just think about how unhappy this guy has to be to conduct himself the way he does. (Covering up the boobies on a statue?!?!?!) Perhaps John Kerry's campaign should take an unexpected tack this year: free therapy for everyone in the outgoing administration! ;-) Kay It's a shame we do not hear from you more often Kay. Your post sent a chill thru me. I think we are in WW3 now. Only it is different than we expected. I think, perhaps, that people don't understand what Bush is doing. His actions are base don his fundy beliefs and those of his cronies. They don't want peace. They want Armageddon. They feel it is their God given duty to bring it about. They feel they are fulfilling biblical prophecy. Death and destruction is not the issue. After all, they will be safe with Jesus.... bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ _____________________________________________________________ The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems and notify the sender immediately. You should not retain, copy or use this email for any purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its content to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:58:26 -0400 From: "rflynn@frontiernet.net" Subject: Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) I too liked Kay's post. Here's the latest about our "wise" foray into Iraq: "U.S. troops battled insurgents in two central Iraqi towns Wednesday, with 40 Iraqis reportedly being killed in a single air strike on a mosque in Fallujah, a stronghold of Sunni resistance near Baghdad. Witnesses said that a U.S. helicopter gunship hit the mosque with three missiles. U.S. officials were unavailable for comment." http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040407.w2iraq0407/BNStory/International/ Quoting Kay Ashley : > Thanks to everyone who responded so positively to my post. I got the > warm > fuzzies from all the people who made me feel so welcome again, > despite my > terrible record as a lister! :-) And, like Lucy, I hope that all > you who > attended JoniFest last year are practicing your KAYzoos!! There will > be > yet more enforced recreation this year!!! > > Azeem, what you wrote (see below) was a point well taken -- I should > have > taken the time to clarify my point about Afghanistan. I should have > made > it clear that my use of the term "known culprit" was really in > reference to > the fact that the Al Qaeda training camps were known to be in > Afghanistan > (Why? Because we helped build them! Hot diggity damn, am I ever > proud to > be from Texas!!). I do think it was legitimate to strike the > training > camps, though clearly we've made a big fat mess of it, and are not > following through. > > Re: Saudi Arabia, again, point well taken. Willful blindness is one > of > this country's strongest suits. I mean, why read "The Nation", when > you > can watch "Average Joe" make out with barbie dolls and watch > "American > Idol" turn the music industry into even more of a mockery of "art" > than it > already is? Truly, the barbarians are at the gates... > > Later, dudes! > > Kay :-) > > > > In a message dated 06/04/2004 20:04:43 GMT Daylight Time, > kay.ashley@willis.com writes: > > << I have some really strong feelings about the Bush Doctrine, and I > feel > that my experiences as a New Yorker give my views a certain weight, > if you > can pardon the hubris. You long timers who know me, know what my > experiences were on 9/11. I will not get into it here again. Those > of you > who are newer probably have no idea who I am, since I am a very > inconsistent poster. So in a nutshell, I will tell you that I am an > avowed > lefty who lives in NYC and who lost many friends on that horrible > day. >> > > This is indeed a magnificent post, Kay. I suppose this is a "me too" > post > really, although there is one point you make with which I would > quibble, > and that is that Afghanistan was the culprit for 9/11. I don't > believe > that this has been proven. And I think it's the case that the vast > majority of the suspected perpetrators were Saudis. Saudi Arabia is > a > non-democracy where women have few rights, people are publicly > flogged and > executed for what most westerners would consider relatively minor > crimes, > etc etc. The West supports them anyway. Funny, that. > > Azeem in London > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > > The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential > and > may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please > destroy > this message, delete any copies held on your systems and notify the > sender > immediately. You should not retain, copy or use this email for any > purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its content to any other > person. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:22:04 +0200 From: "Gillian Apter" Subject: NJC "Bush Doctrine" and Kay Dear Kay, This is an excellent post, so well written and thought out. When I read the digest this morning here in Madrid, I had just finished going through my daily internet look at the Guardian and a commentary from David Clark, a special adviser at the Foreign Office from 1997 to 2001 which you might like to read. It echoes very similarly the points you make in your post. .... "Far from striking a blow against terrorism, the invasion of Iraq has unleashed the very forces of extremism it was supposed to destroy. This shouldn't surprise us. Successful counter-insurgency strategy always relies on two interrelated elements: a military campaign aimed at the perpetrators of violence, and a political campaign designed to isolate them from the wider population. By invading Iraq, the Bush administration violated both principles simultaneously" http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1187322,00.html However, I would like to highlight something you said about Spain, and then beg to differ from your comment that...... "Al Qaeda essentially threw the Spanish elections by attacking Madrid when they did .... " I disagree in part that the terrorists "essentially threw the Spanish elections.. " and would like to explain why, but I'm afraid I can't do it briefly, so please bear with me if you can.. I would also like to explain my view, and that of many others living in this country (I think Emiliano and Mike would agree in with me), in a bid to dispel the opinions abroad that Spaniards are "cowards" and "appeasers" of terrorists. Given our recent history of terrorism, I think this is the last thing ordinary citizens would see themselves as. Comments that the terrorist action of 11-M "essentially" led to the ousting of the right-wing government need to be made alongside a fuller and more complex description of what has been happening in Spain over the past few years, and what directly happened in the three days between the tragedy and the elections. The PP party has been guilty, especially in the last couple of years, of arrogantly manipulating the state media radio and TV channels and blatantly lying about national and international affairs to suit their ends. I admit that all governments manipulate the media, whether left or right wing, but the PP took it to new heights over incidents such as the Prestige oil disaster off the Galician coast, the death of Josi Couso, a Spanish journalist killed, (or murdered, as some claim) by the US in Baghdad during the war, many more domestic affairs, and most importantly, the lies over the Iraqi war invasion, both before and after the war. Aznar didn't even deign to attempt to explain to Spaniards before parliament the "non-existence" of the WMD, as did Bush and Blair, albeit pathetically. One would have expected at least an attempt to justify his government's position given that 90% of Spaniards were completely against the invasion in the first place. Immediately after the Madrid train blasts, the government and the rest of Spain (I, too), blamed it on ETA. (The impact ETA has made in Spanish society over the last 10 to 15 years is huge and must be taken into account when analysing the 11-M attacks) ETA had apparently been leading up to a pre-election attack and had threatened the public transport system. But it soon became clear, (in fact it was clear from the start, given the barbarous nature of the attacks, but we were all blinded by the ETA factor) that it was not the Basque terrorists. Just two or three hours after the tragedy, evidence started coming in about Islamic fundamentalists. Yet, the PP kept hammering the ETA line at us through the media. Aznar personally called main newspaper editors to ensure that ETA, and only ETA, was to blame. The government's representatives in the UN bulldozed an official UN condemnation of ETA, despite unease from many UN member states. This line went on until the evidence became far too obvious and popular protest for the TRUTH became too clamorous. For chrissake's, the main state TV station even programmed a blatant anti-ETA documentary film the NIGHT before the elections in a clumsy electioneering attempt . (Let me explain that the PP's hard-line tactics in recent years against ETA have seriously weakened the terrorist group and won a lot of popular support. So, an ETA bomb would have been the perfect tragedy to give them an absolute majority the 14 March) However, the result of all this blatant and shoddy manoeuvring to keep the ETA factor in Spaniards minds before the elections was, I believe, the very thing that threw out the government. Their clumsy tactics backfired. If the PP had accepted and reported the facts as they were, I believe they may still be in power now..., but only just. This last PP lie was the last straw for a lot of Spaniards. I think that the socialists won not because people changed their minds about who to vote for, but because many people came out to vote who would never have voted in the first place. The participation was unusually high. In the case of Spain, the disillusioned voters tend to be more on the left, but they were so sickened by past socialist government's corruption that they have stayed at home in past elections. The PP got them off their arses into the polling stations. As for international comment that Spain is "appeasing" terrorists if we pull out troops of Iraq ...let's not mix up the oranges with the apples... The fight on Al-Quaeda terrorism, as most of us know, has little to do with the invasion on Iraq, and the pouring in of more US and coalition troops into Iraq (which is about to happen to deal with the insurgent civil war there) will only weaken, as you point out Kay, real efforts elsewhere to actually tackle the problem. Kay, you also say... "And while I am generally in favor of a socialist party coming to power in any country, one cannot avoid the conclusion that Al Qaeda perceives this as a victory; their actions are playing a direct part in the possible breakdown the US-led Iraq coalition." Yes, I agree with you, they probably do perceive that. It was a very clever ploy, but I only think it worked with the help of the PP itself. Sorry, I've gone on for ages. Did admire your post. take care, Gill (in Madrid) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:26:48 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) following Lori's pasting of the link I read your JMDL posting about 11th Sept and it made me cry. My own experience was as follows. I was driving home and talking on my mobile phone to a friend of mine who is a satelite uplink manager for ABC news. WE were chatting about the meal we had shared the previous night when it came first came in on the wire or however it happens. That moment will remain absolutely etched in my mind, as in the background I heard screams of the other people on the news desk. I had just pulled up outside my house and phill was telling me what was happening and I went in and just sat on the sofa and gaped at the TV. Unbelievable. It is beyond compare. I did feel awfully sorry about it, I still think it was an utter outrage and an act of cowardice. It was a warning too. And there will be those who read your post and will accuse you of being UnAmerican. If that is so then they need to remember that America is supposed to be the home of the free, and that includes being able to criticise those in power, and those who would kill and maim in your name. Think really really carefully about what you are being led into. Has not the leash tightened about all our necks just that little too much? I say OUR necks for AS you know, where Bush leads, Blair follows.... lapping up the adventure..sniffing the borrowed odour of righteousness that comes off Bush like slime from a slug.......... and all the time the number of dead is mounting. I notice that they have stopped showing the flag draped coffins and military welcome for the "fallen" on the telly.... not enough popularity for the cause for it to be worthy of a photo opportunity. Ah it will make no difference but I will have said my bit, Good day to you all Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:38:05 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: hello, newbie intro - DJRD and recommendations Em wrote, of Joni's albums: > I seem to have one later one too, cuz I saw the spine of it among my > records last night. Whichever has "Dreamland" on it. Went out and > bought it specifically to have Joni's version too, having fallen in > love with McGuinn's version. Not sure what album it is, gotta > look...the bottom 2/3 or so of the spine is blue and the top is like an > Indian red. (hate to call the color that, but its an oil paint color - > not so PC huh?) I'm a total folkie at heart, so I am way waaaaaaaaay > attracted to her early all acoustic pre-jazz albums. I remember now that we talked about this briefly in Arizona ... you're talking about Don Juan's Reckless Daughter (aka DJRD around here). Did you know that Joni is ALL of the characters on the cover? Yep, including the pimp-lookin' dude on the front! : ) > In the meantime Lori (or anyone), if you'd like to recommend a new work > by Joni, I'd be happy to give a listen. Personally I'd recommend Hejira, but that's probably because it's my favorite album by anyone (at least for the last 24 years). > I'm also now more in a place where I *could* listen to jazz. Good painting > music sometimes. I udderly love that you paint, Em! ; ) And hey, have you checked out the screensaver of Joni's paintings, assembled by Ken?* See "Shiny Toys" in the frame of the JMDL home page. Very cool! Also, since you play guitar, check out the tablature database, maintained by Sue, Marian, and Howard*, also accessed via the frame on the home page. Makes me want to haul out my own pawn shop special and learn a few tunes. > And sometime, I'd like to hear how YOU, Lori, discovered Joni? You shall, at some point. It's a story that begins with Hejira (my own, and Joni's album) in 1977, when I was 19 ... more on that another time. Happy Wednesday indeed! Lori *If I've credited anyone incorrectly -- or omitted a credit -- please forgive me! I can't access JMDL.com at the moment for some reason. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:50:07 -0300 From: "Caio Nehring" Subject: Re: RS list And all the variations over the same theme... I may b full of sh*t, but Joni, all by herself with an accoustic guitar in the middle of any stage, it's worth "at least" a third of this RS list. Full Stop. caio NP Sam Roberts - My love is freeing From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 8:32 AM Subject: Re: RS list > **On the other hand, the list was probably compiled by an ad hoc group and > not by > the editors of RS. > > > Well, it is a pretty small group. It includes some RS guys (Kurt Loder, Jann > Wenner, Greil Marcus, James Henke, David Fricke, others), some musicians > (Keith Richards, Bruce Springsteen, Stephen Stills, Jackson Browne, others), some > Music Execs (Rick Rubin, David Geffen, Jerry Wexler, Seymour Stein, others) and > some non-music celebs as well (Quentin Tarantino). > > Probably about 20% have direct affiliation with RS. Of the 55 voters, only > TWO...TWO! are women (Lucinda Williams & Chrissie Hynde), both of whom hold Joni > in VERY high regard. Like my wife teaches in her statistics classes, this > kind of bias is going to produce some very skewed results. RS, like American > politics, likes to have women around but doesn't appreciate them in > decision-making settings. > > That being said, it's really a shame that RS f*cked up and made such an > incredible ommission. I started reading it today, and the pieces (in spite of what > I said yesterday) are very enjoyable, because it's not the usual stuff. You > get Elvis Costello writing about The Beatles, Robbie Robertson writing about > Dylan, Van Morrison writing about Ray Charles. > > Bob ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #153 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)