From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #152 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, April 7 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 152 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #151 re: Kay Ashley's brilliant post njc [magsnbre] images of a sunny sunday [magsnbrei ] Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) [Lori Fye ] Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) [AzeemAK@aol.com] RE: Spring Greetins NJC [anne@sandstrom.com] hello, newbie intro [Em ] Re: Auto-tuning njc (was that perishing list) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: hello, newbie intro ["Lori Fye" ] Re: hello, newbie intro (now NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: hello, newbie intro [Catherine McKay ] catherine closer to death! -- njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Krall's new baby - fecking brilliant ["michael o'malley" ] Re: On Getting A Bit Older, njc [vince ] Re: On Getting A Bit Older, njc [Susan Guzzi ] Cute article on Joni, Joan & Judy [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: Auto-tuning njc (was that perishing list) [Randy Remote Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #151 re: Kay Ashley's brilliant post njc wow. Full stop. Kay, I am standing up and cheering you after reading this post. I hope that everyone who reads this sits up and takes notice. I encourage you to send this to wherever you think it will make a difference. Your original September 11th post was one of the most riveting pieces of writing that Ive read here, and this one comes in to stand beside it. Congratulations for having the chutzpah and the insight to tell it as you see it. Mags, who wishes the hell I could vote here. . ***** your absence has gone through me like thread through a needle everything i do is stitched with its colour. w.s.merwin Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:20:46 -0700 (PDT) From: magsnbrei Subject: images of a sunny sunday As I write, I am listening to Sunny Sunday, with the hope of explaining what this song means to me. ( I know, there's "no need to explain" ;-) From the moment I heard Sunny Sunday back in 98, a clear image formed immediately, that I can't seem to shake to this day. I see the woman as someone who is stuck, living/existing under the fist of an abusive husband/partner. How does one explain , it's like trying to describe the colour blue. Bit of a dilemma, which is why I've been hesitated to express this thought. No proof in the words, just in my mind. the image is vivid to me. Joni does this so well, she paints stark images with her words . I can see the woman in the song as she points her pistol through the door, as she aims at the streetlight.... what drives it home for me is: But the day she hits, That's the day she'll leave. such a moment of knowing that this one event will set her free. a woman in this situation has to focus on crumbs like the day she hits is the day she'll leave" for survival. . It is what gets her through each and every day. At first I thought, due to the fact that there are other songs on this album that address various aspects of woman abuse , I came to that conclusion, however, that's the image I had all along. all in all, one very powerful song, no matter how you look at it. Mags np: The Magdalene Laundries ***** your absence has gone through me like thread through a needle everything i do is stitched with its colour. w.s.merwin Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 19:38:39 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) Kay, I love you all the time, but I especially love you right now, for your thoughtful post. Thank you. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 19:54:58 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Kay Ashley's brilliant post njc Mags wrote to Kay: > Your original September 11th post was one of the most riveting pieces of > writing that Ive read here, and this one comes in to stand beside it. > Congratulations for having the chutzpah and the insight to tell it as you see > it. Kay, I hope you won't mind if I offer to the rest of the list the link that leads to the post Mags has referenced. I'm with Mags -- it is truly a riveting and powerful piece of writing. http://www.mail-archive.com/joni@jmdl.com/msg01243.html Other NYC listers Debra, Patrick, and Emily also wrote very powerfully about that day. Their posts, along with another from Kay, can be found at these links: http://www.mail-archive.com/joni@jmdl.com/msg01368.html http://www.mail-archive.com/joni@jmdl.com/msg01509.html http://www.mail-archive.com/joni@jmdl.com/msg01511.html http://www.mail-archive.com/joni@jmdl.com/msg01605.html http://www.mail-archive.com/joni@jmdl.com/msg02164.html http://www.mail-archive.com/joni@jmdl.com/msg02374.html With gratitude to all of you, Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 19:58:40 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) Dearest Kay, Damn! You can play guitar, sing -- and write too . . . You remind me of you-know-who! Thanks for putting into word so much of what has been going through my mind lately. You said it better than I ever could have. XO, - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 19:59:42 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) In a message dated 06/04/2004 20:04:43 GMT Daylight Time, kay.ashley@willis.com writes: << I have some really strong feelings about the Bush Doctrine, and I feel that my experiences as a New Yorker give my views a certain weight, if you can pardon the hubris. You long timers who know me, know what my experiences were on 9/11. I will not get into it here again. Those of you who are newer probably have no idea who I am, since I am a very inconsistent poster. So in a nutshell, I will tell you that I am an avowed lefty who lives in NYC and who lost many friends on that horrible day. >> This is indeed a magnificent post, Kay. I suppose this is a "me too" post really, although there is one point you make with which I would quibble, and that is that Afghanistan was the culprit for 9/11. I don't believe that this has been proven. And I think it's the case that the vast majority of the suspected perpetrators were Saudis. Saudi Arabia is a non-democracy where women have few rights, people are publicly flogged and executed for what most westerners would consider relatively minor crimes, etc etc. The West supports them anyway. Funny, that. Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:09:03 -0400 (EDT) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: RE: Spring Greetins NJC Just had to say, very nice post! Now, does that mean spring is just around the corner here in the chilly northeast U.S.? Like everyone, I've been "reading the news and it's all bad... They won't give peace a chance... That was just a dream some of us had." Amazing - "plus ca change"... etc. (In French "The more things change...") lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:19:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: hello, newbie intro Hi folks, am finally properly subscribed it would appear. Glad to be among you all! Read some in the archives and, especially musically, you all seem to have it going on really right up my alley. Anyway I got here via lister Lori Fye, (HI LORI!) who I know through a list for wayward women who ride motorcycles. My musical heart seems to beat louder when its around music from the "cusp" of 69-70, not sure why. I'm 44 so I was like 10 then. My first "real" album was the play soundtrack to "HAIR", whatta trip, parents took it *away* for a few years then I stole it back. My second real album was a radio station only live album of CSNY - and I've never again heard those versions of the songs. "Ohio" was on it. Its long gone. My main lyrical "heart" is given to Mr. Bob Dylan, and e'er more shall. He's just tattoed on my brain. I should fess up and say I don't really know what JM is up to these days...her stuff up to about "Miles of Isles" is also mother's milk to me though. Anyone you could possibly include in the "tree" of music related to anything CSNY (which is a HUGE tree with magnificent roots, no?) is mother's milk for me. You can even connect, like Gram Parsons, and therfore Emmylou Harris and it just grows outward and outward. In fact, just today the UPS guy dropped off my new "White Falcon" t-shirt from Gretschgear.com. ;) Anyway, just saying hi, and thanks Lori, for telling me about this place. Thanks for letting me hang out. Aunty Em ps when you get an email how do you reply back to the list?? when I hit "reply" it was gonna reply just to the poster, and not to the list - so I had to copy and paste the list email in the "TO" area. Is that normal?? ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:02:54 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Auto-tuning njc (was that perishing list) When ya'll are talking about auto-tuning are you talking about pro-tools? Cuz I am not sure that anyone can tell whether pro-tools has been used to tune a note... I've watched (it's a graphic on the computer) it used (we didn't use it at all for my cd as IMO it can take longer to tune a note than to re sing a phrase) but if I understand what you folks are talking about, its not the cher believe thingy... I don't know what effect that is... Paz or someone else familiar with the recording bells & whistles probably knows... It sounded like digital delay & reverb to my ears... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:07:19 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) Kay, that was an awesome post... It reminded me of something I've been thinking about lately... There is a hopi prophesy that shows a fork in the road & a choice that humankind makes related to the earth... I'll try & find it... My hope is that we still have not come to that fork cuz the prophecy isn't good for choosing unwisely... I don't usually take to heart most prophecy but things the hopi speak of carry more weight with me... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:12:03 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: R Stone blows it with Joni again Bob>I will say to end on a happy note that I'm scanning through "Rock Lives" by Timothy White, ex-Crawdaddy & RS editor, and he includes Joni in his "Pioneer" section right up there with all the usual suspects. Then again, he had nobody to answer to as far as Jann & RS are concerned. He even put her pic on the cover!< I like the idea of pioneers rather than immortals... I think this would narrow the field a bit too... I haven't read this book but it sounds like a good one... Getting back to the RS list I think I would have also included the Police... & what about Peter Gabriel... ? And I hate to say it but if Clapton had od'd he'd be on that list... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:21:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: hello, newbie intro Since I sorta got you into this, Em, let me be one of the first to say HELLO! and welcome home! You'll fit right in here! Was Miles of Aisles your last JM album? Sounds like you've got LOTS of catching up to do! : ) Meanwhile, tell us more -- how did you discover Joni? Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:28:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: hello, newbie intro (now NJC) Em, as for your other question: > ps when you get an email how do you reply back to the list?? when I hit > "reply" it was gonna reply just to the poster, and not to the list - so > I had to copy and paste the list email in the "TO" area. Is that normal?? This list is set up differently than the other list where you and I hang (and it's different from a Yahoo group too). I think most of us hit "Reply To All" and then perhaps delete some of the extra email addresses (or not). Only problem with that is that folks then receive two replies: one addressed to them, and another addressed to the list. If you can remember, it's probably better to replace whatever's in the "To" field with joni@smoe.org. You'll probably notice that I've added (now NJC) to the subject. NJC = no Joni content. It's like "OT" (off topic) is used on other lists. We use NJC as a "filter" so the smoe server can separate our list mail so that subscribers who aren't interested in all the peripheral conversations don't get bombarded with all of those. imo, they're missing out on the best part of the JMDL, but we try to keep everyone (relatively) happy here and the NJC tag works pretty well. Happy posting! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:34:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: hello, newbie intro --- Em wrote: > Hi folks, am finally properly subscribed it would > appear. Glad to be > among you all! ... > ps when you get an email how do you reply back to > the list?? when I hit > "reply" it was gonna reply just to the poster, and > not to the list - so > I had to copy and paste the list email in the "TO" > area. Is that normal?? > Welcome, Auntie Em - there's no place like home! You'd probably need to use the "reply all" or "reply to everyone" thing to bring in both the sender of a post and the list. That's how it works for me, and you have a yahoo address too, so that should work. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:08:19 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: catherine closer to death! -- njc On April 2nd our beloved Catherine added another year to that monster of a pile she's been accumulating . . . AND IT WENT UNNOTICED! I guess the Birthday Fairy ahem, blew another one! We're just lucky Catherine hasn't walked away from us all. So please forgive us, Catherine, for forgetting your latest birthday. (I don't know how we managed to do that since you seem to have another birthday every other day!) XO, - --Smurf, the Birthday Gnome, whose birthday is NEXT MONTH, substituting for the Birthday Fairy (ret?) and Jimmy, the Deputy BF (AWOL) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:59:48 -0400 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Krall's new baby - fecking brilliant Just laying back and listening to Krall's new CD, The Girl in the Other Room, on CBC radio 2 tonight, what can I say ? This CD has the guts we've been waiting for from Diana. Great bluesy feel to the piano and voice. The new compositions are great, as are the Costello covers. Of course, she just about outdoes Joni on Black Crow. Funny how the piano and guitar retains an 80's feel on this tune. Diana mentioed Joni at least two times in the interview - -placing her in the pantheon of the greats - which, of course, we've known all along :- ) Michael in Quebec ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:07:58 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: On Getting A Bit Older, njc Am I the first to notice? How come no one writes about getting older? When I went for a checkup at age 40, why didn't my physician tell me that my close vision would disappear in an instant at age 43? I'm 48 and I can't trouble-shoot nearly as well as I could just 5 years ago. I'm figuring out that the pace of "the slide" is picking up. I repeat my stories to co-workers. What say ye? Alarmed in Covington, Jim L'Hommedieu np: B. Dylan which may be part of the problem: "Something is happening here and ya don't know what it is- do you, Mister Jones?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 23:15:26 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: On Getting A Bit Older, njc Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: >What say ye? > Its all over, baby blue. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:58:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: On Getting A Bit Older, njc WOW - what a coincidence Lama! As I was reading your post - my friend who is obsessed with getting older was IMing me about a seminar she is doing - about aging! Actually the first eye exam I had after turning 40 my optometrist did mention this to me - about my close vision. And as a woman - most of my girlfriends mention this problem with remembering and troubleshooting and multi-tasking - but at the same time we are wiser in other ways - and have experience on our sides. Of course we like to blame it on menopause and that may be a part of it. I personally like to think that at my age - almost 47( ty ty I know I dont look a day over 40) - I have sooo much info floating around up there that some things I just have to let go of - unfortunatley sometimes there are things I shouldnt but so what - soon enough I wont even remember to care about that - LOL! But seriously - there will be so many of us in this age group soon - we need to think about better care and prevention and acceptance in society longer term. Peace, Susan "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: Am I the first to notice? How come no one writes about getting older? When I went for a checkup at age 40, why didn't my physician tell me that my close vision would disappear in an instant at age 43? I'm 48 and I can't trouble-shoot nearly as well as I could just 5 years ago. I'm figuring out that the pace of "the slide" is picking up. I repeat my stories to co-workers. What say ye? Alarmed in Covington, Jim L'Hommedieu np: B. Dylan which may be part of the problem: "Something is happening here and ya don't know what it is- do you, Mister Jones?" Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 00:20:54 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Cute article on Joni, Joan & Judy http://www.timesstar.com/Stories/0,1413,125~1549~2064035,00.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:34:51 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Auto-tuning njc (was that perishing list) The effect that Azeem was describing and the effect on Cher's voice on "Believe" are the same: Antares auto-tune. You set it to whatever scale you are singing, and it tunes all the notes in real time (as you sing, or as you play the voc track). They turned it all the way up at the Cher session and decided to use it as an effect- but used as a pitch corrector it is less obvious. The company claims you can't tell it's being used, but I beg to differ. You can also use it on instruments. They make software versions for Mac & PC, too. The stand-alone unit (about $400) is described here: http://www.zzounds.com/item--ANTATR1 If you have the new Liz Phair, or have heard "Extraordinary" you can hear the sound of it. Once you hear it a few times, you will start to recognize it on more and more songs. RR Kate Bennett wrote: > When ya'll are talking about auto-tuning are you talking about > pro-tools? Cuz I am not sure that anyone can tell whether pro-tools has > been used to tune a note... I've watched (it's a graphic on the > computer) it used (we didn't use it at all for my cd as IMO it can take > longer to tune a note than to re sing a phrase) but if I understand what > you folks are talking about, its not the cher believe thingy... I don't > know what effect that is... Paz or someone else familiar with the > recording bells & whistles probably knows... It sounded like digital > delay & reverb to my ears... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:06:06 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: April 7 On April 7 the following articles were published: 1997: "Chip off the 'ole block - Joni's Covergirl Has Star Potential" - Toronto Sun (Reunion Story) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=78 1997: "Singer's daughter identified" - Saskatoon StarPhoenix (Reunion Story, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=86 1997: "Web Site Reunites Joni Mitchell and Daughter" - unknown (Reunion Story) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=84 2000: "Both Sides, Literally" - VH1 Website (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=489 2000: "Joni Mitchell Gets Her Just Desserts In New York Tribute Concert" - AllStar Website (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=490 2000: "Stone Temple Pilots Nix Mitchell Tribute, Rock NYC" - MTV Website (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=491 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:33:27 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Auto-tuning njc (was that perishing list) Oh okay, its not the same thing I guess, thanks randy... I hated that cher song when I first heard it... rr>The effect that Azeem was describing and the effect on Cher's voice on "Believe" are the same: Antares auto-tune. You set it to whatever scale you are singing, and it tunes all the notes in real time (as you sing, or as you play the voc track). They turned it all the way up at the Cher session and decided to use it as an effect- but used as a pitch corrector it is less obvious. Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:59:35 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Bush doctrine (was What Is Reality?) (NJC) Dear Kay, REally lovely to see you on the list again and I was thinking of you yesterday when I discovered a kazzoo in a bag of FEST things that I unearthed. WOW. What a post to come back with. You are so damned right and it would be nice if the US and the UK leaders could actually listen to the people like you who make these points. The sad fact is that our leaders will unlikely to be made aware of real public opinion. Even if they do know it, it is of little consequence as they are acting on an agenda that serves the people who are controlling them. I have absolutely no faith in Tony Blair, ditto for GWB and I doubt so much that, sadly, any one who replaces them will do any better. there is a poem by a man called Henry Cork which to me is a bit of a lesson in just what the world is about... learn how the earth moves, not in books but in blood and how the leaf is so, the flower is signed forgetful of the debaucheries of talk forgetful of the sarcasms of the grown and all that blackboard rubbish copied down of sine and cosine, ajectival clause the salts of iron, the attributes of God and Caesar and his stupid stupid wars. WE seem not to learn from history. we ignore the real ancestral rage that runs through generation on generation. AS you say Kay, sooo very astutely, wars will not end terrorism. Sadly its only terrorism that can fight terrorism. And sadly the cycle of terrorism, arms, drugs, human misery goes on and is something we must all acquaint ourselves with if we are to be aware enough to survive. Terrorism is an army with no territory, no boundaries, no obvious machinery but it is in and amongst all our communities. there is no ONE reason why we are hated. There are so many different reasons why we are hated. It is time to be a little less brash, a little less arrogant, a little more humane, a little bit less self assured that we are the best... WAKE UP ...... both our communities...... WAKE UP.... Now is not the time to extend xenophobia but to really start to understand the communities we fear. Good day to you all] Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:56:42 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: RS list Subject: Re: R Stone blows it with Joni again After all the "kind" words of hate that Joni has spread about the music biz, i find this case to be an official punishment of the industry towards her. I think that they simply wanted to tell her "why should we love you when you hate us so much". There's a saying in hebrew 'don't spit into the well you've been drinking from' - and Joni, i fear, has done it too often, not that i disagree with her on that, but she's simply paying the price. Well, maybe. But RS has actually been kind to Joni in recent years, mainly. On the other hand, the list was probably compiled by an ad hoc group and not by the editors of RS. I dunno....I might shoot them a nasty email. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #152 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)