From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #148 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, April 5 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 148 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Library Links: April 4 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: retaliation, NJC ["tantra-apso" ] Re: R Stone blows it with Joni again [Smurfycopy@aol.com] re all this talk about language now....njc ["mike pritchard" ] Re: R Stone blows it with Joni again [Bobsart48@aol.com] miyake's new venture [Kate ] Gloria Steinem on same-sex marriage njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] R Stone blows it with Joni again ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: (NJC) Could there be any worse song/album than this? [Randy Remote ] Tv guide njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: R Stone blows it with Joni again [Randy Remote ] Fw: jmdl - please help ["Caio Nehring" ] Today's Library Links: April 5 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 03:00:52 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: April 4 On April 4 the following articles were published: 1969: "Into the Pain of the Heart" - Time (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=933 1988: "Portrait of an Artist in her Prime" - MacLean's (Review - Album, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=177 2000: "Brilliant Careers" - Salon.com (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=485 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 09:57:12 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: retaliation, NJC So > regardless of the perhaps justifiable reasons for wanting destruction to come > to the USA, there were also reasons that were very unhealthy. Yes, I am no lover of the Middle East or any other fundiy run countries. treatemtn of women and homosexuals is appalling. One reason I will rsist to my dying breath any attmpt by the fundies in the west to have our countries be the same, for the same they will be if they had their way. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 05:08:54 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: R Stone blows it with Joni again Randy writes: << The new issue of Rolling Stone is "Celebrating the 50th Anniversary of Rock" (1954? huh?) and their feature article "The Immortals" lists the 50 "most important performers in rock & roll history". As you can probably guess by now, Joni was not one of the 50. >> I am always confused by rock & roll lists because rock & roll is a very specific kind of music, in my opinion, and shouldn't just include everything non-classical of the last half century. For example, the Beatles are pop, not r & r. Joni is whatever Joni is, but she's definitely not r & r. Ditto Pink Floyd, the Grateful Dead and Crosby, Stills & Nash. So take heart, Randy. Rolling Stone will probably put Joni right at the top when they do their next special feature, "Celebrating 5,000 years of Folk!" - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 12:35:52 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: re all this talk about language now....njc >>I studied comparative US and UK histories as part of my degree. What struck me about the sources I had to study, which included some of the diaries of the early pioneers who colonised what is now the United States, and those who went to "christianise" the "dark" continents.. was their utter arrogance and belief that "they were right". Somehow the indigenous tribes were "wrong". That their belief systems and ways of living were of no importance. They were feared and therefore an enemy and therefore decimated, captured and used as slave labour, or forced off their land and then arms used against them in WARS because they wanted the "white mans land".<< Wonderful post Lucy, and I'll comment on only a little bit of it. I think you could also have added two things. Firstly the importance of 'Othering' the native population. Defining oneself and one's country as 'Christian', 'moral', 'civilised' etc is an essential step towards defining anyone who has different economic, cultural or religious etc systems as 'inferior' (non-Christian, immoral, uncivilised). Therefore, given the 'evident inferiority' (Mein Gott, they go around half-naked!!) of the indigenous population we obviously a divine mission to lead them to civilised ways, and all that entails. Secondly, the 'circular' dimension whereby the military conquest was so easy (Firearms and Cavalry versus bows and arrows and infantry) that it proves that the opposition really were inferior, thus reinforcing the right to civilise them. Imagine 300 years of this in Latin America, with all the tin, gold, iron, sugar, coffee, rubber, oil etc sent to mainland Europe (Madrid, London and Lisbon) rather than being re-invested in the colonised countries. Now imagine financial crises which amazingly seem to leave the Latin-American countries vulnerable once again. Mexico can't pay its debts (Lazy bastards), Argentina is a disaster (they don't understand the economic system), 'proving' once again that the generous west (IMF, World Bank) needs to bail out the inferior nations although the loans these exploited nations receive is not enough to cover the debts they had before. And so it goes, round and round. 'It is a sad world', indeed it is Lucy, but is the only one we have. mike, thinking of reading Galeano's 'Open Veins of Latin America' again. NP Dylan - Dignity ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 09:37:20 -0400 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Re : CBC Radio preview of Krall's new CD - April 6 (SJC) Hi Jonilistas, the link I initially tried to post to the CBC Radio site was too long and convoluted. Try this simpler one, for the After Hours show, then click the Live radio icon in the upper right corner. http://www.cbc.ca/afterhours/ Alternatively, this link will bring you diectly to live radio - select Radio 2 http://www.cbc.ca/audio.html Michael in Quebec ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 09:49:51 -0400 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Re: Krall's Black Crow Didn't Emiliano report here that DK included Black Crow in her recent Madrid show ? Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 01:46:18 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Diana Krall in Madrid Hi, folks! From yesterday (or so) El Pais' review of DK's concert to the press: "Correct rendition of Joni Mitchell's Black Crow". ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 13:27:12 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: R Stone blows it with Joni again Randy Remote wrote: (no rhyme or alliteration intended) "The new issue of Rolling Stone is "Celebrating the 50th Anniversary of Rock" (1954? huh?) and their feature article "The Immortals" lists the 50 "most important performers in rock & roll history". As you can probably guess by now, Joni was not one of the 50. To be fair to RS, they did not make the list, they selected a panel of 55 or so musicians, industry pundits, etc to vote, and had it tabulated by an accounting firm." Thanks for the heads up, Randy. A couple of points: 1. A panel of 55 is not a very large panel for a purpose like this, and stands a good chance of producing skewed results as compared a differently constructed panel. If RS were serious about this, they would have had a larger panel - did they list the names of the panelists, to illustrate the "mix" ? 2. It sounds to me as though, in a sense, this panel viewed their task as memorializing those people who represented what "Rock" was most about - with a bias toward those things surrounding the genre rather than toward the art itself. Sex, Drugs, Fan-Manias, Record Sales, Volume, Sex, Rebellion, Socio-political Protest, Showmanship, Anger, Violence, Arena filling, Commercials ?, Videos, and, of course, Sex and Drugs. And, I suspect, a male-oriented bias in what was for the most part a male-dominated genre (governed by greed and lust, and other forms of badness, in contrast to Joni's general goodness, at least by comparison with many if not most on that list) - were there only 4 women on that list, or am I missing someone ?. But most disturbing is what I believe is a long-standing bias toward glamorizing - or at least romanticizing - Rock performers' tendency toward premature, drug induced and/or violent death, which ironically limited the extent of their art (Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison, Lennon, Cobaine, Moon, Gaye, Holly, Marley, Presley, Cooke, Redding - am I missing anybody else on that list ?) Some but not all of these people might be worthy of making this list on the merits - but they did not / could not - except arguably for Lennon and Presley - stand the test of time, which is one of the "hall of fame" criteria in virtually every other endeavor except R&R. Jim Morrison versus Joni Mitchell - police! I mean, puhhhleeeeeze! 3. Joni's work has a far better chance of surviving to be recognized as the finest art of its era - in that respect, she (and we) can be grateful that there was not more competition in that area - with most attention/effort over the past 50 years directed not so much toward the art but rather toward ...... well, Rock and Roll. Thankfully, Joni has stood the test of time - and will one day take her place among the great artists of her time - and all time. Patti Smith, indeed ! Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:56:00 -0500 From: Kate Subject: miyake's new venture Thought some of you, in view of Joni's penchant for Miyake fashions, might be interested in this new way of creating clothing that he has come up with: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.04/miyake.html Almost sounds like an April fool's joke, doesn' it? NorthKate ps sorry if this post appears twice; i initially sent it to les@jmdl.com and it just came back as undeliverable ~~~ Anaos Wrote ~~~ http://xoetc.antville.org Who does she think she is, Anaos Nin? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 14:22:58 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Gloria Steinem on same-sex marriage njc Gloria is great, in my opinion. Marianne >Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 05:23:33 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Gloria Steinem on same-sex marriage I've always found Gloria very perceptive and well spoken, and she still has the knack even at 70. This from her "10 Questions" interview in the latest Time magazine: Q: Do you think the fight to legalize gay marriage is an important battle or a distraction from other, more important women's issues? A: It *is* a women's issue. The idea that sexuality is only O.K. if it ends in reproduction oppresses women - whose health depends on separating sexuality from reproduction - as well as gay men and lesbians. Bush and the right wing have overreached. Even people who oppose same-sex marriage don't want a constitutional amendment. Now me: I had never looked at the issue from that point of view.. Point well taken. - - -Julius< _________________________________________________________________ Limited-time offer: Fast, reliable MSN 9 Dial-up Internet access FREE for 2 months! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&pgmarket=en-us&ST=1/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 14:38:48 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: radical right njc >Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 01:45:35 +0200 >From: Emiliano >Subject: Re: radical righties njc >Yes, love, you think. >But, I always think "radical", really, >is someone who goes to the core of it, to the "radice" (root) to really >understand state of things: >to care for if the leaves are clean, to take positive actions (and I mean >positive not only as factual, or even active: two redundances). Emiliano, Thanks, I am glad you reminded me of this part of the definition of the word "radical." ie. that it means: getting to the "root of things." I love this word. . . and I like getting to the root of things. In this way, no. . .Bush is not Radical. . . I would not give him the reverence of this distinction. I was thinking of the word, at the time, as meaning "severe. . . and extremest".. . He is this. . .but I would not say he is to the root of things. a point well taken Emliliano. : -) Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN Premium! http://join.msn.com/?page=features/mlb&pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 12:07:17 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: R Stone blows it with Joni again As a musician, RS lost me over a decade ago when they became so pop culture fluffy & kept putting a lot of young actresses on their cover... I checked the list & was glad to see the Band squeaked in there at #50... Bob Marley too. I do like the idea of artists writing about other artists on this list though. Its incredibly ironic that 2 artists (at least) who cite Joni as a major influence (Madonna, Prince) made it but Joni did not... She should of (<---hahahahaha, just kidding!) been up there towards the tippy top... >The new issue of Rolling Stone is "Celebrating the 50th Anniversary of Rock" (1954? huh?) and their feature article "The Immortals" lists the 50 "most important performers in rock & roll history". As you can probably guess by now, Joni was not one of the 50. RR Read the article here http://www.rollingstone.com/features/coverstory/featuregen.asp?pid=2846< Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 12:50:59 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: (NJC) Could there be any worse song/album than this? "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > how could the > guy who wrote "Yesterday", "Hey Jude", & "Maybe I'm Amazed" come up with > stuff like "The Doggone Girl Is Mine?" What was he thinking? Maybe the > better question was 'what was he smoking?' The same thing as when he wrote "Yesterday", "Hey Jude", & "Maybe I'm Amazed"......and "Eleanor Rigby", "For No One", "Michelle", and yes, some recent gems amongst the drivel. I'm not advocating drug use (though I certainly support adults exercising freedom over what they put in their bodies), but Paul's problems in the songwriting department seem to stem more from the editing department than the pharmaceutical department. Lyrics have always been his Archilles Heel. Not that he can't do them (Eleanor Rigby, She's Leaving Home), he is just lazy about it. He has musical ideas up the yingyang, but works best with a Lennon or Costello looking over his shoulder, forcing him to keep it real. As to Yoko-yes, she was vilified unfairly, yes she stood up for peace....but there is ample evidence that she was a downright aggressive, calculating woman when she was younger. I think John's death softened her personality, and changed her relationship with the public. She went from "the woman who broke up The Beatles" (to some) to the one carrying on John's legacy, a responsibility that she has excepted with a great deal of grace. I saw her in concert several years ago in San Francisco, and the affection she had for the audience, and they for her, was moving, as was her rendition of Imagine. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 12:59:39 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: R Stone blows it with Joni again PS... I counted 2 females among the 55 voters for this selection (Chrissie Hynde & Lucinda Williams). I bet if they'd asked more females & more musicians (rather than industry folks) Joni would have made the list. Looking at the voters I would have added Santana & The Pretenders to the list of immortals. They both had a huge impact. And what about the Moody Blues? Clearly only 50 immortals is not enough. Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 13:10:19 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Tv guide njc From Tom Rush (his wife's name is Renee Askins): "A quick note to let you know that my bride is going to be on the David Letterman show on Tuesday (April 6th). She'll be talking about her book, Shadow Mountain (the book came out in paperback on Anchor Books a couple of months ago) and her work with wolves. She'll be joined by one of the latter while I relax backstage in the Green Room - having flown in from a series of shows in Alaska to be with her. " Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 13:56:50 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: R Stone blows it with Joni again Kate Bennett wrote: > I would have added Santana & The Pretenders to the > list of immortals. They both had a huge impact. And what about the > Moody Blues? Yes, yes and yes! Maybe even Yes? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 13:57:36 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: R Stone blows it with Joni again Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > But most disturbing is what I believe is > a long-standing bias toward glamorizing - or at least romanticizing - Rock > performers' tendency toward premature, drug induced and/or violent death, which > ironically limited the extent of their art (Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison, Lennon, > Cobaine, Moon, Gaye, Holly, Marley, Presley, Cooke, Redding - am I missing > anybody else on that list ?) Bonham, Brian Jones, Tim Buckley, Richard Manuel, Stevie Ray, Dennis Wilson, Duane Allman, Richie Valens, Danny Whitten, Pigpen, Gram Parsons, Jim Croce, Mama Cass, Nick Drake, Phil Ochs, Elvis, Mark Bolan, Terry Kath, Sid Vicious, Lowell George, Mike Bloomfield, Harry Chapin, James Honeyman Scott, Peter Tosh, Jesse Ed Davis, Roy Bucanon, a number of members of more recent bands, I forget which and let's not forget the living casualties: Syd Barrett, Peter Green, Ozzy Osbourne, Courtney Love, Liza Minelli, > Some but not all of these people might be worthy of > making this list on the merits - but they did not / could not - except > arguably for Lennon and Presley - stand the test of time, I think most of them stand the test of time, even Elvis, but precious few are in Joni's league, agreed. Lennon & Hendrix perhaps. And certainly Dylan, even if he hasn't had the commercial sense to die early. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 15:26:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: jmdl - please help Hello folks, I'm trying to enter my pic (yes, it's about time you'd know how i look like) and some personal words into the members page - but it just don't seem to work. could someone please help me with some instructions? I realy don't know what to do... Love and thanks, Nuri Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 00:53:56 -0300 From: "Caio Nehring" Subject: Fw: jmdl - please help Subject: jmdl - please help > Hello folks, > > I'm trying to enter my pic (yes, it's about time you'd know how i look like) and some personal words into the members page - but it just don't seem to work. > could someone please help me with some instructions? I realy don't know what to do... > > Love and thanks, Nuri> > it happened 2 me 2 months ago. but i've just let it go. I thought i was one of those only ones who did not succeed on the job...now i know it makes us at least 3... Help Us... Caio NP - Thomas Newman's American Beauty OST ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 02:01:15 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: April 5 On April 5 the following articles were published: 2000: "A Case of Joni" - Advocate (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=486 2000: "Stone Temple Pilots Added To TNT Joni Mitchell Special" - Launch.com (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=488 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #148 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)