From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #123 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, March 22 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 123 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Library Links: March 22 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: Now for something REALLY different [Susan Guzzi ] Re: God njc ["ron" ] Jack Vettriano/South Bank Show [Gordon Mackie ] RE: God, njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: njc how Bush (did not) win in 2000 ["Kate Bennett" ] The Beat of Black Wings [Garret ] Re: Broken Drum-Stick njc [Catherine McKay ] kerry on c-span last night NJC [Deb Messling ] NJC PC terrorism ["Gillian Apter" ] Re: Now for something REALLY different [Steve Polifka ] Re: 60 minutes on CBS NJC [Lori Fye ] NJC PC What did I just write? [Lori Fye ] Re: NJC PC terrorism [colin ] Re: God njc [colin ] broken drum stick, NJC ["Marianne Rizzo" ] RE: 60 minutes on CBS NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: 60 minutes on CBS NJC [Lori Fye ] RE: 60 minutes on CBS NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] encourage Joni ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Quote of the day NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Quote of the day NJC [Lori Fye ] (NJC) White House Rebuttal to Clarke Interview [Lori Fye ] RE: Quote of the day NJC [Lori Fye ] (NJC) Log Cabin Republicans Unhappy with GOP [Lori Fye ] RE: Quote of the day NJC [Lori Fye ] NJC - More on (moron?) Tom Cole's quote: [Lori Fye ] Travelogue Update [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Quote of the day NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Travelogue Update [Lori Fye ] RE: farina influence? ["Richard Flynn" ] Bugs within the JMDL site [Lori Fye ] RE: Travelogue Update ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Travelogue Update [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: farina influence? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Travelogue Update [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Travelogue Update ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: farina influence? ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: God njc [hell@ihug.co.nz] Re: Travelogue Update [Randy Remote ] RE: Travelogue Update ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: Travelogue Update [Lori Fye ] RE: God njc ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Travelogue Update ["Wally Kairuz" ] question for german listers njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: God njc [Randy Remote ] RE: God njc [hell@ihug.co.nz] RE: Travelogue Update [Lori Fye ] RE: God njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] njc shameless self-promotion ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Travelogue Update ["amelio747" ] Re: God njc [Lori Fye ] RE: God njc [Lori Fye ] RE: God njc ["Kate Bennett" ] tv njc [colin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 03:19:57 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: March 22 On March 22 the following articles were published: 2000: "All-Star Tribute to Joni Mitchell" - Entertainment Wire (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=477 2000: "Both Sides Now" - Montreal Gazette (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=481 2000: "Both Sides Now" - Wall of Sound (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=479 2000: "Both Sides Now" - Music365 (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=478 2000: "Canada's Walk of Fame takes a few more steps" - CBC Radio Arts (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=670 2000: "Joni Mitchell to Take "Both Sides Now" on the Road" - RollingStone.com (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=473 2000: "Stars Set For Joni Mitchell Tribute" - Billboard (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=474 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 00:30:34 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Now for something REALLY different OMG Smurph - you are soooo back! Paz you beotch, you better play with me. Oh Smurphy, please remember The Sugarpants gig was your once in a lifetime shot - so enjoy the memory baby! And we are NOT your gals! There will be no mutiny as you called for last year after your debut with us. So don't test me - I have grown bitter - bitter I tell you! Peace, Susan Smurfycopy@aol.com wrote: Paz also writes: << if anyone needs percussion on their stuff I am happy to oblige >> What a ho. Pins you in a corner and he won't take "No." - -- Smurf Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:22:26 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: God njc hi hell >>>hell wrote > I think we need to agree to disagree on this one! i have no problem with that. :-) doesnt mean we cant talk about it tho :-) ron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:37:41 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: God njc hi >>>>hell wrote >>>> Belief in god is all about faith (IMO). Some would say that proof in God denies faith, so proving that God exists is self-defeating!<<<< ah - the old "babel fish" argument (well - thats the first place i came across it - in hitch hikers guide to the galaxy) actually - all it does is show a lack of understanding of faith. faith is not some kind of vague conviction or feeling that god exists. it is actually a sure and certain knowledge. there is a biblical definition of faith (i may be a little rusty on the actual wording) "now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not yet seen" substance and evidence are both fairly solid things. the greek word for one of them (i forget which) is the same word that the greeks used as the word of a title deed of a property. effectively faith *is* proof that god exists. not just in any vague kind of feeling it might be so way, but rather in a sure and certain god has revealed himself to me and no matter what happens, & no matter what i may or may not understand, that can never be denied kind of way. ron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:37:33 +0000 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Jack Vettriano/South Bank Show Hi Brits Did you see the South Bank Show about the Scottish painter Jack Vettriano? I knew something interesting had happened when they showed a painting called Edith and the Kingpin...then later on I heard Joni on piano..intro to his painting called Shades of Scarlet....I think it only had one 't' when he used it (can anyone confirm) and not the Scarlett as in O'Hara. He is clearly a fan. Im in two minds about his work but it was a nice way to round off the weekend Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 02:12:11 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Carter njc Hey bob, you are in good company: "Former President Jimmy Carter broke his long relationship with the Southern Baptists over their bigotry about women in marriage and the church, as well as gays and lesbians." http://www.williamedelen.com/mar212004.html Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 02:14:18 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: God, njc that is a great way to say it imo... laura>> The term "God" is used in AA, but not without also emphasizing "of your own understanding." << ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 02:22:20 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: njc how Bush (did not) win in 2000 Here is a dramatic & succinct video regarding this voter name purge (I posted this link earlier) http://www.bushflash.com/gta.html Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 02:41:23 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: 60 minutes on CBS NJC Debra>The administration's talking head on "60 minutes", Stephen Hadley, says of course they were paying attention, but he's a lying wuss< & Hadley is the guy who was warned by the CIA that the Niger/Uranium connection was suspect but allowed bush to keep it in the State of the Union speech ... PS later tonight saw gore vidal who was delightful & positively scathing towards david frum (bush's former speech writer & richard perle's buddy) on bill maher's show... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:27:50 +0000 From: Garret Subject: The Beat of Black Wings Much better than i recall. would love to hear that fabled janet jackson cover. wonder what inspired it. The Beat of Black Wings by Joni Mitchell I met a young soldier He said his name was Killer Kyle He was shakin' all over Like a night-frightened child This is his story It's a tough one for me to sing Hard as the squawk and the flap And the beat of the beat of black wings "They gave me a gun" he said "They gave me a mission For the power and the glory Propaganda piss on 'em There's a war zone inside me I can feel things exploding I can't even hear the fucking music playing For the beat of the beat of black wings" He said "I never had nothin' Nothin' I could believe in My girl killed our unborn child Without even grievin I put my hands on her belly To feel the kid kickin' damn! She'd been to some clinic Oh the beat of black wings" "They want you they need you They train you to kill To be a pin on some map Some vicarious thrill The old hate the young That's the whole heartless thing The old pick the wars We die in 'em To the beat of the beat of black wings" There's a man drawing pictures On the sidewalk with chalk Just as fast as he draws 'em Rain come down and wash 'em off "Keep the drinks comin' girl 'Til I can't feel anything I'm just a chalk mark in a rainstorm I'm just the beat of black wings - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 06:45:38 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Broken Drum-Stick njc --- Frank Caldwell wrote: > > > Just A Little Bit Of Trivia And Now Back To Lurkdom. > > I A K U O L > (I AM KING UNDISPUTED OF LURKDOM) > HA!!! Not any more! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:19:08 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: kerry on c-span last night NJC Last night, C-SPAN ran John Kerry's 1971 testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. We turned it on toward the end, so maybe we missed the wild-eyed hippie Jane-Fonda-loving commie part, but we were struck by how articulate he was. We've all been hearing about him supposedly bashing US troops, but in the part we heard, he spoke very compassionately about the troops and how they were used and duped by their government. He even defended Lt. Calley (of My Lai massacre) - well, he didn't defend him, but he said that justice wasn't served when someone at Calley's level was prosecuted and those truly responsible, higher up the chain, were ignored. I hope C-SPAN rebroadcasts this. It would be a good antidote to the caricatures we're getting from the right-wing media. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:17:40 +0100 From: "Gillian Apter" Subject: NJC PC terrorism Lori wrote: "My prediction? Sad and frightening as it would be, I believe this administration is fully capable and willing to stage a "terrorist attack" in order to rally Americans around the president again. As if Bush responded to 9/11 in a manner other than ANY president would have responded. Stayed tuned ... and don't be surprised." That is frightening, isn't it Like you, I wouldn't put it past him and his hawks. But on the other hand, don't you think that a terrorist attack would have the effect of punishing Bush in the election as it punished the right-wing government in Spain? After all, he's been ranting on and on about how he is making the world a safer place so an attack in the lead up to November might blow that argument apart. What is more, I read recently, (I can't remember where, or who said it exactly.. on a news website... The Guardian or Reuters. or something , written post 11-M) .. .. a quote from an Al-Qaeda franchise group that they were NOT planning to attack the US before the elections because they wanted Bush to WIN. "Where would we find a bigger idiot ?" were more or less the words they used. If this report is true, then it adds weight to the argument that the fundamentalists need Bush, and Bush needs the fundamentalists, in order to continue the circle of violence. It is obvious to me that Bush needs the terrorists to keep boosting his election campaign. It's such a simple argument: good v's evil.... that it's all he seems to be able to wrap his ostrich-brain around. (sorry, I shouldn't insult ostriches.... ) take care Gill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:51:09 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Now for something REALLY different Paz, I will be there, AND really want to take my 88 key digital piano with. We're not sure how to get it there, though. Ship it to someone ahead of time??? Jeff and I may drive, but with the looming threat of unbearable gas prices (what's that about?) now we're not sure. Any ideas?? Steve At 06:15 PM 3/21/2004 -0600, Michael Paz wrote: >Hello All- > I have been cloaked for quite sometime due to lack of interest I guess. >But I got a wild hair all of a sudden. I sent my deposit on for Jonifest >(which could be some kinda record seeing how I am the king of >procrastination only second to Nikki who is the QUEEN {no offence Smurph}) >Anyways I have been wondering who all is planning on going? How many >newbie's are we gonna have this year? I have been trying to get a musical >agenda together for this year and plan on much more jamming around campus >and looking forward to collaborating with many more people this year. If >anyone is interested in doing something please contact me. I am bringing my >Cajon again and Ashara is bringing my old one as well so if anyone needs >percussion on their stuff I am happy to oblige. I have been working on some >original music lately and in tunings. I hope I am strong enough to venture >into that this year. Jack has moved off to New Mexico and will probably not >be there this year, but who knows. It would be great to have an 88 key >digital piano this year for some of the great pianists to play. I like them >better to play on as well. If you have an 88 key digital piano and live >driving distance to Oliveria, NY Jonifest WANTS YOU!!! I carried mine one >year but I am way to old to lug it that far on a plane anymore. Besides >those airline bastards are down to 50lb per bag or $100 overweight. Anyways >I just was inspired to write to try to get off the glum of the universe >right now and hopefully encourage more people to come out and play this >summer. Leave all the bull shit of our lives behind and just party and play >music and have tons O hugs. Best to all. > >Paz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:10:59 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Now for something REALLY different (NJC) I'll be there!! Wouldn't miss it. I intend to camp in my brand-new tent this year, though, just because. > but with the looming threat of unbearable gas prices (what's that about?) I've also been planning to ride my motorcycle, and high gas prices just about seals this decision. Lori, going for a new look this year ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:05:41 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: NJC PC terrorism Gill wrote: > If this report is true, then it adds weight to the argument that the > fundamentalists need Bush, and Bush needs the fundamentalists, in order to > continue the circle of violence. The fundamentalists need Bush, and Bush needs the fundamentalists. How true. Fundamentalists, whether they are Muslim or "Christian". The circle of violence of all kinds continues: U.S. landmark destruction, attacks against Westerners, gay bashing, abortion clinic bombing -- it's really all the same. All in the name of "God". May god save us by denying Bush and his ilk more time to do more damage. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:14:03 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: 60 minutes on CBS NJC > PS later tonight saw gore vidal who was delightful & positively scathing > towards david frum (bush's former speech writer & richard perle's buddy) > on bill maher's show... David Frum (my old boss) was ON Bill Maher's show? I would have loved to see this, and I hope it will be shown again. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:03:53 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: NJC PC What did I just write? From today's Washington Post, at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13607-2004Mar21.html: "Any leader whom one can imagine as president on September 11 would have declared a 'war on terrorism' and would have ended the Afghan sanctuary [for al Qaeda] by invading," Clarke writes. "What was unique about George Bush's reaction" was the additional choice to invade "not a country that had been engaging in anti-U.S. terrorism but one that had not been, Iraq." In so doing, he estranged allies, enraged potential friends in the Arab and Islamic worlds, and produced "more terrorists than we jail or shoot." Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:03:17 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC PC terrorism Gillian Apter wrote: > >If this report is true, then it adds weight to the argument that the >fundamentalists need Bush, and Bush needs the fundamentalists, in order to >continue the circle of violence. > Bush IS a fundamentalist himself and so are many who suppoort this 'war'. That is the reason for the clash - fundies on both sides. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:07:30 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: God njc ron wrote: > >effectively faith *is* proof that god exists. not just in any vague kind of >feeling it might be so way, but rather in a sure and certain god has >revealed himself to me and no matter what happens, & no matter what i may or >may not understand, that can never be denied kind of way. > this is the language of cultists and an excellent example of the attempt to bambozzle others. I give the benefit of the doubt and can only assume therefore that you are not trying to do this but merely passing on your own bamboozlement in ignorance. > >ron > > > - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:37:16 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: broken drum stick, NJC Frank, HI! I was thinking about you. Glad to know that you are here. I love a tid bit. There are a lot of things to catch when you frame by frame a film. . . . huh? Best to you Frank, You live in Australia, if I remember? Marianne from Rochester, NY >Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:19:34 +1100 >From: "Frank Caldwell" >Subject: Broken Drum-Stick >I Was Watching Shadows And Light (DVD) Last Night And At The End Of Black >Crow >If You Watch Very Closely You Will See The Drummer(Don Alias) Break A Drum >Stick.If You Use The Frame By Frame You Will Pick It Up. >Just A Little Bit Of Trivia And Now Back To Lurkdom. >I A K U O L >(I AM KING UNDISPUTED OF LURKDOM) >FRANK IN SYDNEY >frankcal@bigpond.net.au _________________________________________________________________ Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage. Multiple plans available. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:17:41 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: 60 minutes on CBS NJC Lori, I believe I've seen him (frum) on this show before, he is smart but was no match for the regal vidal :~} ... Check the listings as they may be playing it throughout the week (hbo) >David Frum (my old boss) was ON Bill Maher's show? I would have loved to see this, and I hope it will be shown again. Lori< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:35:06 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: RE: 60 minutes on CBS NJC > Lori, I believe I've seen him (frum) on this show before, he is smart > but was no match for the regal vidal :~} ... Check the listings as they > may be playing it throughout the week (hbo) Oh bummer, I don't get HBO! As much as I enjoy David as a person, I would love to see Vidal thrash him in conversation. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:43:46 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: 60 minutes on CBS NJC Then it might be worth asking your friends if they get hbo as it looks like it will be broadcast a few more times this week... I think you'd enjoy it... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:59:57 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: encourage Joni Laura said: >LOL I can see Jesus singing Joni songs and dancing; don't know about the >Holy Romans though... If it was truly a party I'd want to go to, we'd be >singing in France They Kiss on Mainstreet, dancing, and really raising >Jesus from the dead. Maybe at the Fest in August? >If you were going to try to encourage Joni to come to the Fest, what would >you say? I *wouldn't say, Joni is FOS (full of sh*t). Marianne, who's still having a hard time accepting this statement. . . . _________________________________________________________________ Get tax tips, tools and access to IRS forms  all in one place at MSN Money! http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/home.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:16:05 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Quote of the day NJC "If George Bush loses the election, Osama bin Laden wins the election, it's that simple. It will be interpreted that way by enemies of the United States around the world." Rep. Tom Cole, Oklahoma Republican http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040304-111104-3096r.htm Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:35:33 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Quote of the day NJC > http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040304-111104-3096r.htm I would expect to see something like that reported in the conservative Washington Times. Lori, a Washington Post reader (like most everyone in this area) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:48:47 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: (NJC) White House Rebuttal to Clarke Interview I would be remiss if I did not post this official response, printed in today's Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14760-2004Mar22.html Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:11:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Jack Vettriano/South Bank Show That's so funny - just this past week I found a print by this artist (who I had not heard of before) and we used it as inspiration for decorating the bedroom in the house we just bought. here are links where you can view the paintings mentioned in the show - also found some new joni-inspired works: sweet bird of youth and the arrangement. jenny edith and the kingpin: http://www.vettriano-art.com/exhibition4.html shades of scarlet and sweet bird of youth: http://www.vettriano-art.com/exhibition4.html the arrangement http://www.vettriano-art.com/exhibition2.html Gordon Mackie wrote: Hi Brits Did you see the South Bank Show about the Scottish painter Jack Vettriano? I knew something interesting had happened when they showed a painting called Edith and the Kingpin...then later on I heard Joni on piano..intro to his painting called Shades of Scarlet....I think it only had one 't' when he used it (can anyone confirm) and not the Scarlett as in O'Hara. He is clearly a fan. Im in two minds about his work but it was a nice way to round off the weekend Gordon Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:02:51 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Quote of the day NJC Conservative it may be, but the article (imo) did not seem favorable towards Cole... I have to admit it still shocks me to see how dumbed down the perspective of some public representatives really is... May the god of our choice ;~} help us all ... > http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040304-111104-3096r.htm Lori>I would expect to see something like that reported in the conservative Washington Times.< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:27:59 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: RE: Quote of the day NJC > Conservative it may be, but the article (imo) did not seem favorable > towards Cole... I'm not sure I would say that. Rather, the Times pointed out that two Democrats were unhappy with Cole's remarks. I can't find any reference to Cole's statement at all in the Post. It seems to me that the Times prints stuff like this (from a paper with a circulation of only 7,000) in hopes that "like-minded" people in the DC area will read it, believe it, and run with it. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:29:58 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: (NJC) Log Cabin Republicans Unhappy with GOP This is VERY telling ... Gay GOP Group Wants Web Site Data Restored The Log Cabin Republicans, a gay organization that backed the president's election in 2000, is urging a Bush administration appointee to restore information about sexual-orientation discrimination to an Internet site where federal employees can learn about their rights in the workplace. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13493-2004Mar21.html Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:31:53 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Quote of the day NJC I guess I'm more naove than I realized! LOL... Just this quote by itself seems so outrageous... The thought that it was printed so others would run with it didn't cross my mind! >It seems to me that the Times prints stuff like this (from a paper with a circulation of only 7,000) in hopes that "like-minded" people in the DC area will read it, believe it, and run with it.< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:44:05 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: RE: Quote of the day NJC > I guess I'm more naove than I realized! LOL... I don't know that you're more naove, Kate. Perhaps you're just not as suspicious as I am! : ) Anyway, have a look at the internet front page of the Times, vs. the Post. I think you'll see quite a difference in their messages: http://www.washingtontimes.com/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/ Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:52:35 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: NJC - More on (moron?) Tom Cole's quote: Cole's quote, in part: "What do you think Hitler would have thought if Roosevelt would've lost the election in 1944? He would have thought American resolve was [weakening]." A comment from a discussion board on http://www.smirkingchimp.com: "But that didn't stop republicans from voting against FDR in 1944 and trampling on his reputation and record ever since, eh?" Touchi! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:35:21 -0800 (PST) From: Douglas Cooke Subject: farina influence? Hi; I'm new to the list. You can see my profile on the members page, but I wasn't able to upload my photo. Does anybody know if Joni was influenced at all by Richard Farina? Aside from her occasinal dulcimer playing, it seems to me that one can sometimes detect a certain Farina-like zing in her guitar strumming as well. Has she ever acknowledge Farina as an influence? What are some of her other influences? Who are her favorite poets? Thanks, Douglas Cooke www.richardandmimi.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:59:13 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Travelogue Update Maybe some will take this as blasphemy...I spun T'log a couple of times last week, and I actually seem to like it better than I have in the past- perhaps getting used to the different arrangements or whatever, I'm not sure...BUT one thing that struck me is that some of these tracks would work better as instrumentals than they do with Joni's vocal. Not because her vocals are bad (although some do lack the power to match the orchestrations), but rather because the intimacy of the lyrical content doesn't match up with the grandiose sound of the orchestra. Has anyone else has this thought? Give a listen to T'log and see if you don't think that on some of these tracks Joni's vocal isn't more of a distraction. Bob NP: Pearl Jam, "Deep" doesn't ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:01:26 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Quote of the day NJC Yes indeedy. & what an interesting difference in their choice of headline news - Post: Hamas Leader Sheik Ahmed Yassin Killed in Gaza Times: Bush camp hits Kerry on spending >Anyway, have a look at the internet front page of the Times, vs. the Post. I think you'll see quite a difference in their messages: http://www.washingtontimes.com/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/ Lori< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:13:57 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Travelogue Update > Give a listen to T'log and see if you don't think that on some of these > tracks Joni's vocal isn't more of a distraction. Any examples, Bob? Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:14:47 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: farina influence? Welcome to the list Douglas. I don;t know the answer to your question, but I'm a fan of the Farinas. Certainly Joni's involvement in and familiarity with the early to mid-sixties folk scene would suggest that she would have been familiar with them. As for the photograph uploading--I noticed that my photograph, which had been uploaded for a long time--no longer appears. Perhaps the powers that be can give us advice? - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Douglas Cooke Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 3:35 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: farina influence? Hi; I'm new to the list. You can see my profile on the members page, but I wasn't able to upload my photo. Does anybody know if Joni was influenced at all by Richard Farina? Aside from her occasinal dulcimer playing, it seems to me that one can sometimes detect a certain Farina-like zing in her guitar strumming as well. Has she ever acknowledge Farina as an influence? What are some of her other influences? Who are her favorite poets? Thanks, Douglas Cooke www.richardandmimi.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:23:35 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Bugs within the JMDL site Hi Douglas, and welcome to the JMDL! Richard wrote, regarding your missing photo: > As for the photograph uploading--I noticed that my photograph, which had > been uploaded for a long time--no longer appears. The JMDL was recently moved to a new server. Please visit www.jmdl.com, where you'll see a violet box at the top right, with an "email me" link where you can send a note to Les with any problems you're experiencing. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:23:08 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Travelogue Update Bob-- I'd have to say that I think the orchestral arrangements are the distraction. There are some performances, esp when the jazz combo is freed of all those syrupy strings that do have power, but few tracks can compare with the originals. Still, it's a lot better than BSN! Richard - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of SCJoniGuy@aol.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 3:59 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Travelogue Update Maybe some will take this as blasphemy...I spun T'log a couple of times last week, and I actually seem to like it better than I have in the past- perhaps getting used to the different arrangements or whatever, I'm not sure...BUT one thing that struck me is that some of these tracks would work better as instrumentals than they do with Joni's vocal. Not because her vocals are bad (although some do lack the power to match the orchestrations), but rather because the intimacy of the lyrical content doesn't match up with the grandiose sound of the orchestra. Has anyone else has this thought? Give a listen to T'log and see if you don't think that on some of these tracks Joni's vocal isn't more of a distraction. Bob NP: Pearl Jam, "Deep" doesn't ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:26:08 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Travelogue Update The ones that jumped out at me were: Cherokee Louise Borderline Just Like This Train Trouble Child Bob NP: Pearl Jam, "dissident" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:32:12 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: farina influence? Hi Douglas, and welcome! I've read and heard lots of Joni interviews where she talks of her influences, and Richard's name has never come up. She does mention Edith Piaf, Billie Holliday, Laura Nyro, Bob Dylan, Miles Davis as influences in terms of composition, vocal technique, lyrical ability, etc. She's said that she's not a fan of poetry, I can't say that I've ever heard her mention any favorite poets. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:43:03 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: RE: Travelogue Update Oh, of course this is true...the whole thing needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. i was just saying, given the musical backgrounds that exist, some of them would be more interesting as instrumentals. Almost ALL of them could be improved with different arrangements, tempos, etc. And as you say, none of them (with the exception of Dawntreader imo) improve upon what Joni accomplished the first time around. My thinking on that hasn't changed, and probably never will. Bob NP: Pearl Jam, "elderly woman behind the counter in a small town" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:50:11 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Travelogue Update Dawntreader is indeed beautiful, I'll allow that as an exception. Bob, you're gonna make me tale TLOG out of mothballs again and give it another listen, when I'd rather be listening to Hejira. - -----Original Message----- From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com [mailto:SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 4:43 PM To: "Richard Flynn"; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Travelogue Update Oh, of course this is true...the whole thing needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. i was just saying, given the musical backgrounds that exist, some of them would be more interesting as instrumentals. Almost ALL of them could be improved with different arrangements, tempos, etc. And as you say, none of them (with the exception of Dawntreader imo) improve upon what Joni accomplished the first time around. My thinking on that hasn't changed, and probably never will. Bob NP: Pearl Jam, "elderly woman behind the counter in a small town" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:52:30 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: farina influence? Well, she likes Yeats enough to rewrite his poem! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of SCJoniGuy@aol.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 4:32 PM To: Douglas Cooke; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: farina influence? Hi Douglas, and welcome! I've read and heard lots of Joni interviews where she talks of her influences, and Richard's name has never come up. She does mention Edith Piaf, Billie Holliday, Laura Nyro, Bob Dylan, Miles Davis as influences in terms of composition, vocal technique, lyrical ability, etc. She's said that she's not a fan of poetry, I can't say that I've ever heard her mention any favorite poets. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:55:37 +1200 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Re: God njc Ron wrote: > actually - all it does is show a lack of > understanding of faith. faith is not some kind of > vague conviction or feeling that god exists. it is > actually a sure and certain knowledge. A lack of understanding on how YOU view faith, not how I view it. My understanding or definition of faith is not lacking at all, and only I truly know what that is. I did say "IMO", which is all anyone can give! > effectively faith *is* proof that god exists. not > just in any vague kind of feeling it might be so > way, but rather in a sure and certain god has > revealed himself to me and no matter what happens, > & no matter what i may or may not understand, that > can never be denied kind of way. I'm not sure how many times I need to say this, but this will certainly be the last time. God exists for YOU, and your faith is just that - YOUR faith. You cannot tell me how and what to believe. Actually no, you can tell me until you're blue in the face (no reference to certain Boston-dwelling JMDLers is intended by that statement) but you're not going to change my mind. Hell - now done with this subject! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:10:30 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Travelogue Update Richard Flynn wrote: > Bob-- > I'd have to say that I think the orchestral arrangements are the > distraction. So, if you removed the overblown orchestral stuff and Joni's dry rasp vocals, you might really have something.... > ..BUT one thing that > struck me is that some of these tracks would work better as > instrumentals than they do with Joni's vocal. Not because her > vocals are bad > because the intimacy of the > lyrical content doesn't match up with the grandiose sound of > the orchestra. I'll agree with this-these recordings, to me, are the aural equivalent of putting her artwork in those big, gaudy frames. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:11:33 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Travelogue Update You know, this thread got me thinking how disappointing it would be if Joni didn't recordanother album of original songs. Even if they aren't on par with her very finest work, Turbulent Indigo and TTT had some interesting songwriting, and the vocal performances--even with Joni's more limited range--worked. WHat's missing in the performances on TLOG is passion--having something new to say. I mean, I hate the song "Sex Kills" but I admire its passion. The performances on TLOG just seem bloodless by comparison. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of SCJoniGuy@aol.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 4:43 PM To: "Richard Flynn"; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Travelogue Update Oh, of course this is true...the whole thing needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. i was just saying, given the musical backgrounds that exist, some of them would be more interesting as instrumentals. Almost ALL of them could be improved with different arrangements, tempos, etc. And as you say, none of them (with the exception of Dawntreader imo) improve upon what Joni accomplished the first time around. My thinking on that hasn't changed, and probably never will. Bob NP: Pearl Jam, "elderly woman behind the counter in a small town" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:27:05 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: RE: Travelogue Update > And as you say, none of them (with the exception of Dawntreader imo) improve > upon what Joni accomplished the first time around. Hmm ... "You Dream Flat Tires" is excellent AND an improvement over the originial, imo. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:40:10 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: God njc I agree with 100% with hell here ron... Faith to you may be all those things, but outside of your own mind, it is a different world... I don't doubt your experience but that doesn't mean it is anyone else's... & I wonder why do you refer to god as 'him'? Do you really believe god has gender? This gender association has always felt so limiting to me not to mention incorrect IMO Ron > faith...is > actually a sure and certain knowledge...faith *is* proof that god exists...in a sure and certain god has revealed himself to me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:45:35 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Travelogue Update one thing's sure: all the people that i have been trying to turn on to joni for the last 30 years and i could never persuade to listen to more than 30 seconds of her old material have COMPLETELY fallen for t'log. i play the original versions, i compare the piano parts with the new orchestral arrangements, i offer them money -- no matter what i do, they still prefer the t'log versions. how in the name of every deity in heaven and in the nether regions can this happen?????? wally ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:50:47 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: question for german listers njc i need to ask a question about a word in german. will some kind german-speaking lister write me off list PLEASE? (are there any german-speaking list members? i should have asked that question first, i think...) wally ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:51:50 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: God njc isn't it funny that hell has so many answers about god? wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Kate > Bennett > Enviado el: Lunes, 22 de Marzo de 2004 07:40 p.m. > Para: hell@ihug.co.nz; 'ron'; joni@smoe.org > Asunto: RE: God njc > > > I agree with 100% with hell here ron... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:51:02 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: God njc Kate Bennett wrote: > & I > wonder why do you refer to god as 'him'? Do you really believe god has > gender? This gender association has always felt so limiting to me not to > mention incorrect IMO Agreed, but viewing God as the big man in the sky is consistent with a religion steeped in patriarchy. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:55:36 +1200 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: RE: God njc Wally wrote: > isn't it funny that hell has so many answers about > god? Not answers, Wally - opinions! Hell (not to be confused with that hot place, which IMO opinion doesn't exist ;o), unless it's being stuck here while everyone else is at a Jonifest!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:57:00 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: RE: Travelogue Update Wally wonders: > no matter what i do, they still prefer the t'log versions. how in the name > of every deity in heaven and in the nether regions can this happen?????? I dunno. "My" Mary prefers the Travelogue versions of many Joni songs, too. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:00:55 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: God njc oh, so they were talking about YOU! wally, hellbound > -----Mensaje original----- > De: hell@ihug.co.nz [mailto:hell@ihug.co.nz] > Enviado el: Lunes, 22 de Marzo de 2004 07:56 p.m. > Para: Wally Kairuz; Kate Bennett; 'ron'; joni@smoe.org > Asunto: RE: God njc > > > Wally wrote: > > > isn't it funny that hell has so many answers about > > god? > > Not answers, Wally - opinions! > > Hell (not to be confused with that hot place, which IMO > opinion doesn't exist ;o), unless it's being stuck here > while everyone else is at a Jonifest!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:12:09 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: njc shameless self-promotion If any of you are going to be in the Greensboro, NC area the weekend of April 3, I'm giving this talk: Sat. April 3rd, 10am-12noon, University of North Carolina at Greensboro, Jarrell Lecture Hall, Walter Clinton Jackson Library Randall Jarrell Community Lecture - The "Place" of the Poet in American Public Life Dr. Suzanne Ferguson, editor of Jarrell, Bishop, Lowell, & Co: Middle-Generation Poets in Context, will discuss Jarrell's friendships with his contemporary poets and their role with the Library of Congress. Dr. Richard Flynn, Professor of Literature, Georgia Southern University, author of Randall Jarrell and the Lost World of Childhood, and editor Children's Literature Association Quarterly, speaking about Jarrell's children's literature and "child-adult cross-writing," the importance of childhood in his work for adults. Portions of Jarrell's poems will also be read. The community is invited to meet and hear these national experts on Randall Jarrell. Free, but registration suggested. For more information call (336) 373-3617. web site:http://www.poetrygso.org/symposium.htm Who is Randall Jarrell? Go here: http://www.poetrygso.org/randall_jarrell.htm Richard Flynn Professor Editor, Children's Literature Association Quarterly Dept. of Literature and Philosophy P.O. Box 8023 Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460-8023 E-mail: rflynn@GeorgiaSouthern.edu ChLAQ Page: http://ebbs.english.vt.edu/chla/quarterly.html Personal Home Page: http://www.GeorgiaSouthern.edu/~rflynn Randall Jarrell Home Page: http://www.georgiasouthern.edu/~rflynn/JarrellHomepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:19:38 -0000 From: "amelio747" Subject: Re: Travelogue Update I agree Lori! I was like "is this for real" when I first heard it! Really something and much much better IMO. The conclusion I've come to is that TLOG would have been better as just one CD! A few of the tracks just don't do much for me but a lot I find very moving and worth the re-working! NP: Noisy car alarm * * * * * * Stephen T "I get the urge for going But I never seem to go" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Fye" To: Cc: "Richard Flynn" ; Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 10:27 PM Subject: RE: Travelogue Update > > And as you say, none of them (with the exception of Dawntreader imo) improve > > upon what Joni accomplished the first time around. > > Hmm ... "You Dream Flat Tires" is excellent AND an improvement over the > originial, imo. > > Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:34:11 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: God njc Randy wrote: > Agreed, but viewing God as the big man in the sky is consistent > with a religion steeped in patriarchy. Yes, it certainly is consistent with those religions that decimated so many of the matriarchal societies, in the name of conversion to another faith. Personally, I always think of "god" as a big eye in the sky. Lori NPIMH: "I am the eye in the sky ..." P.S. to Kerry: Sorry for yet another Alan Parsons Project reference! : ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:36:38 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: RE: God njc > Hell (not to be confused with that hot place, which IMO > opinion doesn't exist ;o), unless it's being stuck here > while everyone else is at a Jonifest!) That can't be right. Isn't it winter in New Zealand when it's JoniFest in the U.S.? ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:42:27 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: God njc >Agreed, but viewing God as the big man in the sky is consistent with a religion steeped in patriarchy.< Yes it is unfortunate the concept is still around imo... There is a great list of things that we take for granted that use the male pronoun... & when you change these things to the female pronoun it becomes obvious how we've assumed so much for too long... I wish I could get my hands on this... Does anyone know what I am referring too? Probably from some women's studies 101 course :~}... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:11:36 +0000 From: colin Subject: tv njc i recently saw the whole of 'taken'on dvd and enjoyed it. More engrossing for me was 24.I have recently seen the the first 2 seasons back to back. I really enjoyed the first season and stayed interested. The second season dragged a bit and I thoiught became rather unbelievable tho very American in it's prtrayal of goodies and badies. I Thought Sheri the Prezzes wife was one of the all time best baddies. I have not seen the 3rd season as I missed the start but will borrow the dvd set as I did with the first 2. Tonight we saw a doc about Sex and the City which we have never really got around to watching. It starts from the beginning on Ch4 next week so we will set the satellite thing to record it. It looks good. I have followed a series called Judging amy which I like very mcuh. It eended with Richardf Crenna, about to marry Maxine(love Tyne Daly), but dying instead becasue he died in real life so I guess he had to on screen as well. Anyway, I have no idea if there is another season? With this satellite thing we have about 400 channels. We watch much less tv now than we used to with just 4 cahnnels. Ther are so many channels we can never remember which channel and what day and time the fucking programmes we would like to watch are on! Like ER for instance. The last time I was on track with that was when greene died. now it is on 3 channles, on different days and times and it gets confusing. So I end up watching BBC news 24 most of the time with the occasional delve into the biography cahnnel. Modern life is so challenging. Speaking of challenging, waht the hell has happened to packaging? EVERYTHING from broccoli to cheese to meat is packaged. But not just wrapped. oh no. they are hermetically sealed and are impossible to open by mere mortals. By the time I have managed to ge anything open it has either gone off or my appetite has. Even trying to open a pack of coffee is a trial of endurance and patience. Half of it ends up all over the place. Oh and those 'resealable' bags. Just how do you reseal a bag you had to shred to get at it's contents? Everything from nuts to grated cheese is put in these things and none of them open in a way that allows them to be resealed. And ingredients or nutitonal information? Whose bright idea wa sit to put them on the reverse of a label so that you cannot read it till you buy it and open it? I stand in the supermarket pealing them back and in my mind daring anyone to say anything so I can then tell them how moronic they are for labelling like this. How about this? Our suprmarket does a FINEST range. Sound good? No way. How about FINEST pork loin with addded glucose syrup and preservatives? Much more expenisve than the unadulterated stuff. or FINEST Belgian Chocolate? Full of hydrogenated vegetable fat which means it is NOT chocolate. I made john put it back and buy real chocolate(no veg fat -hydroGenated or not)If I can't eat chocolate, I can at least make sure he eats the real thing while he can! Then there is the bin. THREE very large sacks per week because of all the damn packagin. even a simple steak comes in a huge tray that refuses to be balled up into something smaller so you can fit it in the bin. Broccoli comes in trays, cauli comes in trays evrything comes in the bloody things. Milk? what happend to the simple glass bottle where you pressed in the foil lid? Now you get them in sealed plastic bottles that means the milk has curdelled byt the time you figure out how to open it. Bleach bottles. okay, so by time you get that open, if you were thinking of committing suicide by drinking it, the moment will have passed weeks previously.Who needs bleach anyway? You get used to the smell and in time don't even notice it and if visitors complain, give a chore to shut them up-hand them a closed bleach bottle and ask them to open it. They'll soon either stop complaining or stop coming round and interupting your package opening time. Eggs? Now they still come in easy to open boxes.And eggs themselves are really easy to open. They jump right out of the box and open right when you didn't ask them to.(dax are good for these situaions-they'll lick up anything). But egg boxes are bulky and fill your bin. Guess what? The recycling people don't take egg boxes. They are cardbaord, they are simple but cannot be recycled? why? Speaking of recycling, I refused to buy recycled toilet paper for years till I asked John 'how on earth do they get the toilet paper back to recycle it? I wouldn't want that job.' He almost wet himself laughing and I then realised I had not thought this through ot rather that I had thought it through but not in the right direction. I now quite happily use recycled toilet paper. Then ther are plastic bags-the type you ge tin the supermaket for your shopping or the type you buy for dog poop or the type you buy fro freezing things in. Why don't they provide them ready opened? Is it all part of a plot? Do they want us to run amok and commit mass murder? Am I getting old? - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #123 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)