From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #121 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, March 21 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 121 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Facts? njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Mel Gibson's movie njc [colin ] God njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: What is reality? NJC [colin ] Re: God njc [colin ] Re: God njc ["hell" ] Re: God njc [colin ] Re: Mel Gibson's movie njc ["mike pritchard" ] how the election was stolen -- njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: God njc ["ron" ] Re: God njc ["ron" ] Re: Freedom from , NJC [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: God njc [Randy Remote ] Re: Mel Gibson's movie njc [Randy Remote ] Re: Iraq, NJC [LCStanley7@aol.com] njc how Bush (did not) win in 2000 ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Know it all trivia, NJC [LCStanley7@aol.com] RE: Scriptures and The Passion, NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: God njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: God njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: God njc [colin ] Jackson Review & Rickie Lee News (NJC) [Gary Zack ] Re: God njc [colin ] Re: God njc [colin ] Re: Know it all trivia, NJC [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Freedom from , NJC [colin ] Re: movie diversity, NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] RE: how the election was stolen -- njc ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: how the election was stolen -- njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] google it -- njc ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] RE: how the election was stolen -- njc ["Kate Bennett" Subject: Facts? njc One person's facts: >And the line among some will always be that he "stole" the election and "the votes weren't counted." If you watched or read about all the coverage of that election, you observed the votes were counted and recounted a number of times. Fact. I've lost track of which recount was in place when the Court finally ruled to stop it. That recount was based on wanting to count impressions in a punch card (dimples) rather than a clear punch-out. The counties in Florida had different standards as to the interpretation of counting chads - they could either be punched out, hanging or dimpled. The Court ruled that the differing standards were not constitutional. There was also an issue of the counters missing their deadline to count and certify the votes. After that election, several major news and other organizations went to Florida and counted (AGAIN) all the votes. By every method of counting and interpreting the votes imaginable, Bush still won.< Another person's facts: http://www.bushflash.com/gta.html Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:33:18 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Mel Gibson's movie njc ron wrote: > hi > > > >>>>i wrote > >>>>>anyone who has ever felt the presence of god in any > realistic way will realise its for our own good. > > > >>>>colin replied > >>>>so if they don't have the same experience as you, it > wasn't real? heard that so many times and it still holds no truth.... > > > i cannot speak for anyone else. no. that is so. > > > > but it still aint genuine & never will be.............. and who determines that? My experience has been that those who reject the spiritual experiences of others do so becasue they don't think about them the same way-ie don't draw the same conclusions. That is not a sound basis for such rejection. It is also a part of the whole cultish nature of that from of Xtianity. 'you don't think the same as me therefore your spiritual experience must be counterfeit'. It's hogwash and a control technique and shows to me, perhaps, that the holders of such views are the ones who lack a genuine experience > > > - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:38:14 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: God njc >most people have never experienced the presence and beauty of god.< I think most people have, but think that perhaps they don't recognize it as such... Some look too far away & miss what is right in front of them... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:41:09 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: What is reality? NJC WMD's. we have them, many countries have them what right have we, whilst we hold on to ours and increase them, to insist that others don't have them? Our side have used them too...... It's a bit like thre nieghbourhood bully owning a bazooka and not allowing anyone else to. What could be the reason? If you were the one surrounded by WMD's and being prevented from protecting yourself, how would you feel? Would you trust the big guy with the WMD's telling you you cannot have them? If one of those countries was right next to you, with wmd's, and allowed to, how would you feel? Who made US/UK boss? Firepower! - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:47:04 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: God njc Kate Bennett wrote: >>most people have never experienced the presence and beauty of god.< >> >> > >I think most people have, but think that perhaps they don't recognize it >as such... Some look too far away & miss what is right in front of >them... > > > I think awareness has evertyhing to do with it. We can be anywhere but the in the presence of God. It is arrogant to suggest most have no experience or tha ttehre is only one conclusion to draw from such experience. Not to say false. Is it any wonder ther eis so much conflict in the world when peole's experiences are dismissed in such a way becasue their conslusions differ? Having grown up with such 'thinkers', I am an expert on such hideous tactics. It is all part of the abuse of power. 'you will think as i do and if you do not your reasoning/grasp on reality/your experience is flawed. or worse you are evil and misled.' It's been used by many-old Russia, Nazi Germnay and to some extent our own Governments and is certainly the tactic used by by fundies. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:54:56 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: God njc Kate wrote: > >most people have never experienced the presence and beauty of god.< > I think most people have, but think that perhaps they don't recognize it > as such... Some look too far away & miss what is right in front of > them... Unless of course you don't believe that God (in any form) exists, in which case you will never recognise it as such. You're saying that God definitely exists, regardless of what other people believe - I don't think you can make that statement. If you believe, or have faith, then God exists for you. But I don't believe any one of us can speak for anyone else - and people have very different ideas or concepts of what god actually "is". It's a tricky area, like the old question, "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make any noise?" Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a WHOLE NEW EXPERIENCE! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:03:10 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: God njc hell wrote: >Kate wrote: > > > >>>most people have never experienced the presence and beauty of god.< >>> >>> > > > >>I think most people have, but think that perhaps they don't recognize it >>as such... Some look too far away & miss what is right in front of >>them... >> >> > >Unless of course you don't believe that God (in any form) exists, in which >case you will never recognise it as such. You're saying that God definitely >exists, regardless of what other people believe - I don't think you can make >that statement. > > > you are right. no one can prove anything one way or the other. atheism is just as valid a viewpoint. all we have is our ideas. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:11:49 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Mel Gibson's movie njc >>I get the same feeling about our Prime Minister...<< >>I do have a very warm spot for old Tony, though ;-)<< I have a soft spot for Tony Blair (and GWB too). It is called the Dogger Bank. (A large sandbank off the british coast): anyone know the US equivalent? mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:56:47 EST From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: how the election was stolen -- njc Can we all just be clear on one thing? W stole the election long before any votes we counted by having -- with brother Jeb's help -- thousands of voters removed from the voting lists. The dimples and hanging chads are just a small part of the story. With all the different kinds of funny business that went on, how any halfway intelligent person can think the Florida 2000 election was handled fairly just baffles me. Even ultra conservative Pat Buchanon was left scratching his head and wondering how he ever got so many votes in Jewish precincts. Maybe Bush supporters think that by saying that the Florida election was fair over and over again, we'll all eventually buy it. Not me. I will always remember the election for tarnishing the one branch of the federal government I had any respect for -- the Supreme court. I really do try to stay out of the political crap here, but I can't sit back when deception rears its ugly head over and over again. - --Smurf PS: W also looks like a chimp. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 17:29:19 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: God njc hi >>>i wrote > > >most people have never experienced the presence and beauty of god.< >>>kate replied> > > I think most people have, but think that perhaps they don't recognize it as such... Some look too far away & miss what is right in front of them... well, there are the emotional states where people feel emotionally moved by something so beautiful that they attribute it to god. i am generally a very emotional person so i get that quite often - especially with music. often i feel the beauty of music so much that i thank god for music, and that i have some kind of affinity for. but that is not what i was talking about - i was talking about the manifested presence of god, when the presence of god is so real and tangible and almost physical. sometimes its the love of god, just washing through one like water, & leaving you feeling so cleansed and renewed. sometimes its the holiness of god - leaving you feeling too scared to even move a finger. mostly its the compassion and love of god for others - leaving one feeling their pain, hurt and suffering, and being able to do something about it in prayer. (god gave mankind authority on earth & will not do anything unless invited). & after experiencing something like that - you just walk around in a total buzz for a couple of days - way better than any drug i ever tried - tho admittedly i have only tried a few basic ones :-) >>>>>hell replied >>>>> Unless of course you don't believe that God (in any form) exists, in which case you will never recognise it as such. You're saying that God definitely exists, regardless of what other people believe - I don't think you can make that statement.<<<<< can, did, do, & always will. lets put it another way. i have a friend. i have met him & spent time with him. i know he exists - but you dont. far all you know he may just be an imaginary friend. especially when i start to describe what he is like, and what he does. he may not make any sense to you - especially when you consider that the info is being filtered through an intermediary who is not very good at expressing things. you try to put the pieces together & conclude i am misled - that he is indeed an imaginary friend. then one day you meet him. now you know hes real. then you spend time with him - then you find out some of what ive described is true. you also discover that ive got wrong & misinterpreted much of what i told you about him. but hes still real. & then of course theres the other response i must make to your statement. if no one can make the statement that god does exist - how can anyone make the statement that he doesnt?? its just not logical. ron np - eastmountainsouth - the ballad of young alban & amandy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 17:40:42 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: God njc hi colin >>>>>>colin wrote >>>>>>Is it any wonder ther eis so much conflict in the world when peole's experiences are dismissed in such a way becasue their conslusions differ? Having grown up with such 'thinkers', I am an expert on such hideous tactics. It is all part of the abuse of power. 'you will think as i do and if you do not your reasoning/grasp on reality/your experience is flawed. or worse you are evil and misled.' It's been used by many-old Russia, Nazi Germnay and to some extent our own Governments and is certainly the tactic used by by fundies.<<<<<<<<<< yes - it is the tactic used by many groups for wrong. it is also the tactic used by you to dismiss my experience. have i tried to tell anyone how to feel / think / be??? nope - not in the slightest. all i have done is mention my experiences. have i tried to claim they are exclusive?? nope - all ive done is say draw your own conclusions in the same way i have reached mine. colin - i realise you have been hurt by many people trying to tell you how to think / be / behave / react. we have all been there. i was just fortunate enough to have a truly christian friend there to reach out to me when i truly needed her ( i was on my way to commit suicide - she ran after me, gave me a hug & i felt the love of god ). so what i am saying is dont just react in the same old way to everyone who reaches out. they arent all the same. ron ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:13:58 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Freedom from , NJC Subject: Re: (NJC) Freedom from Religion Lori Fye wrote: >http://ffrf.org/nontracts/?t=jesus.txt Colin wrote: > http://tinyurl.com/2zanp Hi Lori and Colin! I looked at these sites. Thanks. I do wonder if people who are really trying to be free from religion and write these extensive dissertations about religion are really promoting freedom from religion. I mean if I was looking for freedom from religion, I wouldn't mention the R word nor any subsets of the category because then I would be focussing on what I was trying to be free from. Love and freedom to you, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:24:48 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: God njc ron wrote: > & then of course theres the other response i must make to your statement. if > no one can make the statement that god does exist - how can anyone make the > statement that he doesnt?? its just not logical. Well you can't have it both ways. But what you are talking about is spiritual authority. "I have had a genuine religious experience, so trust me." Sorry, but it ain't gonna happen. No one should blindly believe in another's spiritual authority (or authenticity) any more than they should take someone's word on the existence of the Easter Bunny. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:25:48 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Mel Gibson's movie njc mike pritchard wrote: > >>I get the same feeling about our Prime Minister...<< > > >>I do have a very warm spot for old Tony, though ;-)<< > > I have a soft spot for Tony Blair (and GWB too). It is called the Dogger Bank. > (A large sandbank off the british coast): anyone know the US equivalent? The Florida swamp would work. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:52:31 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Iraq, NJC Bree wrote: But now that we are there..and things are turning around.. albeit slowly.. is there nothing good that the opposition can state? For instance....in a poll just taken a few days ago in Iraq .. a whopping 72 percent said they want democracy. Ninety percent of the children will be immunized by years end. (Hillary where are you?! It takes a villiage? Remember?) Children are going to school...the water is cleaner than it has ever been. Most importantly.. the tyrant is put away. Just today all the news services reported that Saddam stole close to 10 Billion dollars from his people. Monies that should have gone for food..education...hospitals.. twenty -five million people are free to practice their religion...to speak out....freedom for the first time in decades. Hi Bree! I was not for going to war with Iraq so I guess I'm part of the opposition. Yes, all of these things you mention here are good. I can acknowledge these good ends, but I cannot agree with the evil means used to obtain them. And, I have to wonder what good was actually prevented by going to war... perhaps that good would far out weigh what is happening now. When evil means are rejected, blessings follow in time. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:01:51 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: njc how Bush (did not) win in 2000 Yeah, there were objections (like the voter who was diverted away from road construction by saw horses on her way to vote. She *DID* vote anyway). Those saw horses were not about disenfranchisement; they were about paranoia. My memory of it is that all of the objections were given due process. Every one's request was heard according to the system laid down by the Framers. If Bush wins this time it will remind us of how difficult it is to unseat the incumbent. Remember November 1972? Nixon had a wildly unpopular war going full blast and it was widely thought that CREP (the Committee to re-elect the President) had hired burglars to steal documents from the Democrat HQ. The headline: "Incumbent Wins Landslide". The objections to Iraq seem like small potatoes to me by comparision and not many seem aware that the economy has been completely off its rails for awhile now. My prediction: "Incumbent Wins Landslide". Sincerely, Jim L'Hommedieu Covington, KY, USA Lori asked, >>Well, brother Jeb did promise George the state. I wonder if the saw horses are >>ready for the roadblocks again this November? Vince said, > *not true at all > by some methods and interpretations, > Bush won, by some Gore won, by > some, inconclusive ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:06:12 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Scriptures and Passion, NJC Vince wrote: The idea of Jesus committing violence on a living thing is anti Gospel. Hi Vince, As a plants' rights activist, I can't help but think of the fig tree Jesus killed with his words because he was hungry and the fig tree had no fruit for him to eat. Plants are living beings too. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:16:42 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: God njc That is true hell.. I forgot to put in the imo part... The phrase the 'beauty of god' for me translates to the creation of life which when I think about it is such a miracle... This includes us, our loved ones, the actual feeling of love, nature in all of its many manifestations, etc... Because its so inclusive & simple (imo) I forget sometimes that this is not everyone's definition when I use the word god (which has so many connotations that make the word pretty meaningless at this point)... Because it is my belief that 'god' is akin to our life force I assume most have felt it without naming it as such... It is only my personal belief system that names it such... Clear as mud? >Unless of course you don't believe that God (in any form) exists, in which case you will never recognise it as such. You're saying that God definitely exists, regardless of what other people believe - I don't think you can make that statement.< ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:25:15 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Know it all trivia, NJC SO YOU THINK YOU KNOW EVERYTHING? A dime has 118 ridges around the edge. A cat has 32 muscles in each ear. A crocodile cannot stick out its tongue. A dragonfly has a life span of 24 hours. A goldfish has a memory span of three seconds. A "jiffy" is an actual unit of time for 1/100th of a second. A shark is the only fish that can blink with both eyes. A snail can sleep for three years. Al Capone's business card said he was a used furniture dealer. All 50 states are listed across the top of the Lincoln Memorial on the back of the $5 bill. Almonds are a member of the peach family. An ostrich's eye is bigger than its brain. Babies are born without kneecaps. They don't appear until the child reaches 2 to 6 years of age. Butterflies taste with their feet. Cats have over one hundred vocal sounds. Dogs only have about 10. "Dreamt" is the only English word that ends in the letters "mt". February 1865 is the only month in recorded history not to have a full moon. In the last 4,000 years, no new animals have been domesticated. If the population of China walked past you, in single file, the line would never end because of the rate of reproduction. If you are an average American, in your whole life, you will spend an average of 6 months waiting at red lights. It's impossible to sneeze with your eyes open. Leonardo Da Vinci invented the scissors. Maine is the only state whose name is just one syllable. No word in the English language rhymes with month, orange, silver, or purple. On a Canadian two dollar bill, the flag flying over the Parliament building is an American flag. Our eyes are always the same size from birth, but our nose and ears never stop growing. Peanuts are one of the ingredients of dynamite. Rubber bands last longer when refrigerated. "Stewardesses" is the longest word typed with only the left hand and "lollipop" with your right. The average person's left hand does 56% of the typing. The cruise liner, QE2, moves only six inches for each gallon of diesel that it burns. The microwave was invented after a researcher walked by a radar tube and a chocolate bar melted in his pocket. The winter of 1932 was so cold that Niagara Falls froze completely solid. The words 'racecar,' 'kayak' and 'level' are the same whether they are read left to right or right to left (palindromes). There are 293 ways to make change for a dollar. There are more chickens than people in the world. There are only four words in the English language which end in "dous": tremendous, horrendous, stupendous, and hazardous There are two words in the English language that have all five vowels in order: "abstemious" and "facetious." There's no Betty Rubble in the Flintstones Chewables Vitamins. Tigers have striped skin, not just striped fur. TYPEWRITER is the longest word that can be made using the letters only on one row of the keyboard. Winston Churchill was born in a ladies' room during a dance. Women blink nearly twice as much as men. Your stomach has to produce a new layer of mucus every two weeks; otherwise it will digest itself. ....................Now you know everything! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:50:48 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: Scriptures and The Passion, NJC >Also..the Vatican put out a statement a few days ago > > and said The Passion > > WAS NOT anti-semetic. And people who thought that > > is was must think that > > the Gospels are also anti-Jewish. >On the other hand, just because the Vatican says the >film isn't anti-semitic - Jeeezus, who are they to say >so, and just because they say so, doesn't make it so. Queen of queens... true...BUT....all denominations seem to be in alignment that the movie is not anti-Jewish. But really the reason I cited this was because it points to the movie being scripture based. >The thing with crushing the snake's head has been >around for a while as a symbol of destroying Satan or >evil, so it's nothing new and yes, I would see this as >a symbol and nothing more. On the other hand, snakes >always take the rap, don't they? As a persssson born >in the year of the ssssssnake, I object! I promise not to stomp on you at the fest. Bree >===== >Catherine >Toronto >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction > > > > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _________________________________________________________________ Get reliable access on MSN 9 Dial-up. 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:08:04 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Know it all trivia, NJC --- LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: > SO YOU THINK YOU KNOW EVERYTHING? > Babies are born without kneecaps. They don't appear > until the child > reaches 2 to 6 years of age. How do they bend their legs then? > On a Canadian two dollar bill, the flag flying over > the Parliament > building is an American flag. We haven't had two-dollar bills for at least ten years. We have a two-dollar coin (the twonie, or toonie.) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:09:55 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: God njc --- Randy Remote wrote: No one should > blindly believe in > another's spiritual authority (or authenticity) any > more than they > should take someone's word on the existence of the > Easter Bunny. WHAT? No Easter Bunny?!? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:23:59 EST From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: God njc Clueless Catherine writes: << WHAT? No Easter Bunny?!? >> You would have known that, Catherine, if you had paid attention to the sanity clause. - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:25:38 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: God njc ron wrote: >hi colin > > > >>>>>>colin wrote > >>>>>>Is it any wonder ther eis so much conflict in the world when >peole's experiences are dismissed in such a > way becasue their conslusions differ? Having grown up with such 'thinkers', >I am an expert on such hideous tactics. It is all part of the abuse of >power. 'you will think as i do and if you do not your reasoning/grasp on >reality/your experience is flawed. or worse you are evil and misled.' It's >been used by many-old Russia, Nazi Germnay and to some extent our own >Governments and is certainly the tactic used by by fundies.<<<<<<<<<< > > > >yes - it is the tactic used by many groups for wrong. > >it is also the tactic used by you to dismiss my experience. > I have not in any form dismissed your experience. > >have i tried to tell anyone how to feel / think / be??? > no one said you did. > >nope - not in the slightest. all i have done is mention my experiences. > sort of. what you strongly implied was that those who didn't think the same way as you , could not have had a genuine experience of God. > > >colin - i realise you have been hurt by many people trying to tell you how >to think / be / behave / react. > Please DO NOT do this. It no longer works on me. My past is not a reason to devalue my thinking ability. >she ran after me, >gave me a hug & i felt the love of god ). > wahteevr you felt, you cam to the conclusion it was the love of God. Good. However, it is necessary to understand that it is you who gave it that emaning. no one else. We all give menaing to our experience. The meanings we give are not objective, aboslute truth. they are just our constructs. they may or may not be true-we have no way of knowing. I would not suggest to you that your interpretation was /is incorrect. i don't know. But neither do you. All you have is your experience and the meaning you have given it. It does not constitute truth. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:23:46 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: Jackson Review & Rickie Lee News (NJC) Even though our Siquomb is briefly mentioned, I believe this still probably qualifies as NJC. From today's Detroit Free Press, March 21, 2004 Jackson Browne - The Very Best of Jackson Browne (Elektra/Rhino) **** By Terry Lawson, Free Press Staff Writer What if a near-career-best album fell in a crowded forest and no one was there to hear it? That's exactly what happened with 2002's "The Naked Ride Home," the most cohesive and completely satisfying collection of new Jackson Browne compositions since the singer-songwriter's brilliant and mournful "The Pretender" in 1976. One hopes that this well-compiled two-disc restrospective, which ends with two of that record's best songs - - the title track and "The Night Inside Me" - will send a few one-time fans in search of it. Whiile Browne's confessional yet beautifully crafted style of composition fell out of fashion around the same time as that of Joni Mitchell, his female roommate in the Hotel California, he has continued to write fine songs and keep the faith. This collection hits most of the high points, from "Rock Me On The Water," culled from his nearly perfect 1972 debut, to 1980's "Hold On" to 1990's yuppie lament "Lawyers In Love." And it will fill in some of the fallen-away fans on what's happened since; if you somehow missed "I'm Alive" and "Sky Blue and Black," you're in for a real rewakening. The Sunday Entertainment sections also mentions that Rickie Lee Jones will appear on Conan, this Thursday. Best regards, Gary Detroit ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:47:38 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: What is reality? NJC >Meanwhile back at the ranch that country club cowboy (if he's a cowboy I'm >Hans Blix) Kate..I really strongly disagree with you on this one. Bush IS not country club material. He and his wife go to bed with the chickens...they lead boring lives.... I saw an interview with He and Laura before he became president... and I thought.. BORING...I'd never want to hang with them. They are two down to earth people (not that some people who frequent CC's aren't ) But this is a guy who likes getting early up on the ranch...barbeques...cow dung . They are not smooth suave...sophisticated ... Yes..he has the $$$...which would qualify a person being CC acceptable but I can see nothing else. I just think the country club life is something he would not be interested in. Bree >They know what they want & will stop at nothing to achieve their goals >now that they are finally in power (some again). They manipulate >everyone & everything in their path & truth is just a casualty of war. >And they are risking the lives & the health of our sons & daughters, >brothers & sisters, mothers & fathers & friends to this end. > >That's my reality. > >Kate >www.katebennett.com >"bringing the melancholy world of >twilight to life almost like magic" >The All Music Guide _________________________________________________________________ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar  FREE! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:52:28 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: God njc ron wrote: >hi > > > >>>i wrote > > >>>>most people have never experienced the presence and beauty of god.< >>>> >>>> > > >>>kate replied> > > >>>I think most people have, but think that perhaps they don't recognize it >>> >>> >as such... Some look too far away & miss what is right in front of them... > >well, there are the emotional states where people feel emotionally moved by >something so beautiful that they attribute it to god. i am generally a very >emotional person so i get that quite often - especially with music. often i >feel the beauty of music so much that i thank god for music, and that i have >some kind of affinity for. > >but that is not what i was talking about - i was talking about the >manifested presence of god, when the presence of god is so real and tangible >and almost physical. sometimes its the love of god, just washing through one >like water, & leaving you feeling so cleansed and renewed. sometimes its the >holiness of god - leaving you feeling too scared to even move a finger. >mostly its the compassion and love of god for others - leaving one feeling >their pain, hurt and suffering, and being able to do something about it in >prayer. (god gave mankind authority on earth & will not do anything unless >invited). > >& after experiencing something like that - you just walk around in a total >buzz for a couple of days - way better than any drug i ever tried - tho >admittedly i have only tried a few basic ones :-) > > > > >>>>>hell replied > > >>>>>>Unless of course you don't believe that God (in any form) exists, in >>>>>> >>>>>> >which case you will never recognise it as such. You're saying that God >definitely exists, regardless of what other people believe - I don't think >you can make > that statement.<<<<< > >can, did, do, & always will. > Helen is correct. \The most you can say is that you believe God exists. you cannot possibly say God DOES exist. at least not without losing credibilty. > >but hes still real. > according to your constructs. as previously stated, your constructs(or minje or anyone elses) do not constitute 'absolute truth'. You believe 'he' is real, fine. That doesn't mean 'he' is. The most you can say is that you believe 'he' is real. > > how can anyone make the >statement that he doesnt?? > they cannot. > its just not logical. > and neither is insisting our meaning creations are TRUTH. The importnat thing is that you have ahd an experience that has proved positive for you. I have and so have others. All we can ascertain from that is that we all benefitted from our experiences. Where it becomes a problem is when we start to insist that we have experienced something outside of ourselves, that we 'know' in an objective way. We cannot do that and it is dishonest and manipulative and dangerous to suggest otherwise. this comment hopefully clarifies my earlier comment about control and Nazi's etc. POWER, in human terms, is all about forcing others to accpet your interpretations as being correct. Every situation we have in this world boils down to that one thing-the battle to have others accpet our definaition of reality. People of religion do it all the time. Some cynically and deliberately, others unwittingly and out of a genuine desire to help others. However, regardless of the motive, the end result is negative because it is based on a false premise, on lies and misunderstanding. So whatever your experience was, it was good for you. You have interpreted that in a traditonal xtian way. That is okay for you. The trouble lies in insisiting that your interpretation is Truth. it isn't. It is only your interpretation. One of the dangers with such an attitude to our interpretations is that it tends to close our muinds and thus furhter growth, and possiblpe recogniton of error, becomes impossible. Emmet Fox suggests that the only 'unforigveable sin' is that of a closed mind becasue a closed mind does not allow the Holy Spirit entrance to correct errors..... I am sorry you interpreted my last email as an attck on you. i can only hope you don't interpret this one in the same way. When people do that, it makes discourse pointless. >bw >colin >http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:54:25 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: God njc Randy Remote wrote: > > >Well you can't have it both ways. >But what you are talking about is spiritual authority. "I have had a >genuine religious experience, so trust me." >Sorry, but it ain't gonna happen. > and neither should it. for reaosn I tried to explain earlier! > No one should blindly believe in >another's spiritual authority (or authenticity) > too right. > any more than they >should take someone's word on the existence of the Easter Bunny. > Leave the Easter Bunny out of it. he visits me every year so I know that he is real..... >RR > > > - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:55:19 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Know it all trivia, NJC In a message dated 3/21/04 12:08:06 PM Central Standard Time, anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: Babies are born without kneecaps. They don't appear > until the child > reaches 2 to 6 years of age. How do they bend their legs then? Hi Catherine, An anatomy question... cool. The kneecap is imbedded in a big tendon that originates in the large bundle of muscles on the front of the thigh (quadriceps femoris) and attaches the shin bone (tibia). The function of the kneecap is to increase the functional power of this bundle of thigh muscles by increasing the leverage of their tendon as it crosses the knee joint. The knee bends because of the joint, not because of the kneecap. As for the development of the knee cap, it is just a collection of several disconnected clumps of cartilage cells at birth, and at the age of 3 - 6 years old, these cells begin to form one cluster and become bone. I lecture on bone development at the medical school, and find it to be a fascinating process... well actually two processes: endochondral ossification (bone growth from a cartilagenous model, like the knee cap), and intramembranous ossification (bone growth from an embryonic tissue called mesenchyme with no intervening cartilage step, like the bones of the skull). Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 19:03:48 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Freedom from , NJC LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: > I do wonder if people who are really >trying to be free from religion and write these extensive dissertations about >religion are really promoting freedom from religion. I mean if I was looking >for freedom from religion, I wouldn't mention the R word nor any subsets of the >category because then I would be focussing on what I was trying to be free >from. > > > I see your point but to do so would be to ignore the problem of people of religion trying to force their ideas upon those of no religon or even different religion. You cannot have freedom from religion in schools and state and law if you ignore its presence. That makes no sense. That would be like ignoring terrorism and hoping it would just go away..... - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:25:39 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: movie diversity, NJC I never thought of this ..Laura. I'm just catching up and will write you a long one later this day Love you.. Bree >From: LCStanley7@aol.com >Reply-To: LCStanley7@aol.com >To: joni@smoe.org >CC: guitarzan@direcpc.com >Subject: Re: movie diversity, NJC >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:21:42 EST > >Randy asked: > >And how did the Gospels reproduce conversations within the quarters of >Pilate, where, presumably, only Jesus and the Romans witnessed the >exchange? > > Hi Randy! > > Well, of course I wasn't there so I don't know for sure, but it >would >seem logical to me that since Christ rose from the dead and spent 40 days >with >the apostles before ascending, perhaps they asked him about what transpired >with Pilot, and he told them. Thanks for your thought provoking question. > >Love, >Laura > >PS. We are vacationing in Hot Springs, Arkansas. It is such a beautiful >town in the Quachita Mountains. There is a place in the park where the hot >water >comes out of the ground and fills a pool where people can dangle their >feet... so relaxing! Historically, this was a place of peace because >adversaries >considered it a sanctuary where they would quit fighting to allow for >bathing in >the healing hot springs. _________________________________________________________________ Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:41:37 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: how the election was stolen -- njc >--Smurf PS: W also looks like a chimp.< LOL, there is a website dedicated to this very idea, called the smirking chimp... http://www.smirkingchimp.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:20:11 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: What is reality? NJC Hi Bree, I used the word country club as a metaphor for very privileged & wealthy... I know this world first hand as I grew up among that crowd (although, my own family was far far from that kind of wealthy) ... many of the kids I grew up with came from families with enormous wealth & power (captains of industry)... I agree that bush is not sophisticated or suave but I would never describe him as down to earth in spite of the trappings of owning a ranch, etc... There was a good article (over a year ago now), written about how bush emulates reagan both politically (obvious by looking at his administration & their membership in pnac) & image wise (his ranch was a relatively recent purchase)... It was interesting & pretty balanced from what I recall... Perhaps it was in NY Times's Sunday magazine section? I also know quite a few salt of the earth cowboy types (cattle ranching is all over this area) & bush has little in common with these guys, other than he may appeal to some of them thanks to his pr machine... Bree >Kate..I really strongly disagree with you on this one. Bush IS not country club material....They are two down to earth people (not that some people who frequent CC's aren't )< ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:20:36 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: how the election was stolen -- njc >--Smurf > >PS: W also looks like a chimp. Well now ..I don't like getting into commenting about how people look...but that Kerry guy..... (you force me into it) I've heard things such as Frankenstein..and he looks like just your average undertaker. But the best one is the tree that talks in Wizard of Oz. Well if he happens to be looking for work after November we all know what part he could play in the revival of Wizard Of Oz. Bree _________________________________________________________________ All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:03:18 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: God njc hi colin >>>>>>The most you can say is that you believe God exists. you cannot possibly say God DOES exist. at least not without losing credibilty. mm - this is difficult - do i care about credibility with others? well, yes im human, & i am even more of a wussy kind of person who doesnt like to be disliked. so, yes i do care. but even more than i care about credibility with others, i care about credibility within myself. internally & personally i have absolutely no doubt that god exists. and that he has chosen to reveal himself to me through christianity. & the point i would like to make is that however god may choose to reveal himself to anyone else - hopefully it will be in as real a manner - to leave that person in no doubt - as i am inno doubt. >>>>> POWER, in human terms, is all about forcing others to accpet your interpretations as being correct. Every situation we have in this world boils down to that one thing-the battle to have others accpet our definaition of reality. People of religion do it all the time. Some cynically and deliberately, others unwittingly and out of a genuine desire to help others. However, regardless of the motive, the end result is negative because it is based on a false premise, on lies and misunderstanding. i really dont want to force anything on anybody. thats really just stupid. all i want to do is say something happened to me & it was good. i really hope something happens to you (the general you - everyone) & it is just as good. i certainly am not prescribing that it must be the same as me, or even that it must be interpreted in the same way. if you come to a realisation of god in some way that is different to what happened to me, thats also just fine. im not here to fight, argue, convince, or try & persuade you of anything. so if you, or anyone else has the same degree of reality which i have in my knowledge of gods existence, than all i can say is good for you. im happy, youre happy, lets go get a drink :-) >>>>> > Emmet Fox suggests that the only 'unforigveable sin' is that of a closed mind becasue a closed mind does not allow the Holy Spirit entrance to correct errors..... im not sure who emmet is, but he(she??) is (was?) a wise person. >>>> I am sorry you interpreted my last email as an attck on you. i can only hope you don't interpret this one in the same way. When people do that, it makes discourse pointless. i am sorry i did as well. i certainly have not interpreted this mail in any kind of negative way. i enjoyed reading it & thinking about what you say. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:02:34 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: google it -- njc put the words "bush" and "chimp" into google and you get more sites than you can imagine >--Smurf PS: W also looks like a chimp.< LOL, there is a website dedicated to this very idea, called the smirking chimp... http://www.smirkingchimp.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:03:42 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: how the election was stolen -- njc LOL Bree! Touche! >But the best one is the tree that talks in Wizard of Oz.< ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:43:08 -0500 From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: RE: how the election was stolen -- njc Bree writes: >> but that Kerry guy..... I think he resembles Abraham Lincoln, the last (only?) great Republican. - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:56:37 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: how the election was stolen -- njc I do too smurf... He is intelligent & a good orator which adds a whole other dimension to is appearance... This is what I think made him 'electable' to many voters... Oh my, between our current governor & gwb I am looooonnnnnngggggiiiinnnnnggggg for someone who is articulate... >I think he resembles Abraham Lincoln, the last (only?) great Republican. - --Smurf< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:03:24 +1200 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Re: God njc Ron wrote: > lets put it another way. i have a friend. i have > met him & spent time with him. i know he exists - > but you dont. far all you know he may just be an > imaginary friend. > especially when i start to describe what he is > like, and what he does. he may not make any sense > to you - especially when you consider that the > info is being filtered through an intermediary who > is not very good at expressing things. you try to > put the pieces together & conclude i am misled - > that he is indeed an imaginary friend. > > then one day you meet him. now you know hes real. I don't think this is a very good analogy, because I CAN meet him, in a physical and very real sense (to me) - and he then becomes part of MY reality. Show me where I can meet God? Where is the proof? Until I have that proof (in whatever form I require to make me believe, be it physical or spiritual), I'll continue to deny the existence of God, or life on Mars, or your friend, or whatever else we're talking about! I come from a very scientific, empirical background, and that has influenced how I view the world around me. Belief in god is all about faith (IMO). Some would say that proof in God denies faith, so proving that God exists is self-defeating! > & then of course theres the other response i must > make to your statement. if no one can make the > statement that god does exist - how can anyone > make the statement that he doesnt?? its just not > logical. I never said that god doesn't exist - read my post again. What I said was that just because god exists for YOU doesn't automatically mean that god exists for me, or anyone else. And the two statements above are certainly not absolute opposites. Do I blindly believe everything I am told? No, of course not. There are some things that I won't believe exist until I have proof - but that doesn't mean that they DON'T exist. Logic doesn't come into it, it's more about human perception. I think we need to agree to disagree on this one! Hell ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #121 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)