From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #111 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, March 15 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 111 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Starbucks Make Music, njc now really [Garret ] Mel Gibson's movie, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Mel Gibson's movie, njc [vince ] RE: Mel Gibson's movie, njc ["Victor Johnson" ] NJC Gill in Madrid ["Gillian Apter" ] Re: madrid njc [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Mel Gibson's movie, njc [Jerry Notaro ] light of day NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: light of day NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: New favourite saying NJC ["Donna Binkley" ] RE: light of day NJC ["Victor Johnson" ] Viking Cats NJC ["Ross, Les" ] Mel Gibson's movie njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Mel Gibson's movie, njc [Emiliano ] Shiny Toys - remix [Emiliano ] Re: Viking Cats NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: NJC Gill in Madrid (PC) [dsk ] puppy update njc [colin ] Re: Mel Gibson's movie njc [colin ] RE: NJC Gill in Madrid (PC) ["Gillian Apter" ] Re: Shiny Toys - remix [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Mel Gibson's movie, njc ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] No Jonatha! NJC [dsk ] Vienna Teng NJC [dsk ] Re: Mel Gibson's movie, njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: light of day NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: puppy update njc [Catherine McKay ] philly (njc) ["Joseph S.E. Palis" ] Re: Mel Gibson's movie, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: content, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Joni at Starbucks [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: Mel Gibson's movie njc now God & all that [Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Starbucks Make Music, njc now really i remember wondering if they were just regular cd's when i worked there though, as they had so many songs. I know a cd can hold up to 99 tracks (that right?), but realisticallly how many songs would you get on? 15? 18? In starbucks they must have 50 or 60 songs. The cd players in starbucks stores are also pretty weird looking and very heavy. I do hate the way Starbucks plays such good music though... there is some part of me wanting to support the real independent coffee shops, not just the ones with that look. The good music makes Starbucks more appealing, no? GARRET Quoting "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" : > Speaking of Starbucks... > > I was in Starbucks the other day when they were playing some Stan Getz, > followed by Dave Brubeck Quartet (featuring Paul Desmond), followed by > Charlie Parker. I wondered aloud to a co-worker if they were using a > radio-like "service" or if they were playing a CD. > > We each asked a different Starbucks employee simultaneously. One young > lady > said, "a service", and the other said, "a CD." > > :) > > It turns out it was a CD, sent from Corporate. It had dozens of tracks, > the > Starbucks logo, and the smallest font I've ever seen. (Isn't it funny how > fonts get smaller and smaller after age 43?) > > All the best, > Jim L'Hommedieu > > > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:35:10 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Mel Gibson's movie, njc Bree > I found not one scintilla of anti-Semitism..it just wasn't there Hi Bree This may just prove that you, Bree, have a pure heart. Unfortunately, many others may be influenced in these troubled times by the church forsaken doctrine of "jews killed Jesus". When I was 7 years old, I got insulted in the school yard by a kid who added the justification that jews killed Jesus. This 7 year old must have heard it from somewhere. Now even if it were true, it may seem crazy to you to blame some people for what their ancestors did or didn't do 2K years ago. But millions of people were killed because of crazy ideas like this. Nowadays the "dirty jew" insult is so commonplace in french schools that the ministry of education just printed a book for teachers on how to deal with this problem. I haven't seen the movie which is not released in France yet, and don't really plan on seeing it either. Based on what I've read, I ask myself the question: why did Gibson revert to this doctrine when even the Church gave it up 40 years ago? Why add fuel to the fire, and why revive these sentiments. Keep in mind that this movie will be shown worldwide so the potential for damage is huge. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:34:10 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Mel Gibson's movie, njc Laurent, Gibson adds dialogue that is not in the Gospels to implicate the Jews. He places Jews in situations and places they never would have been in to implicate the Jews. He based his movie - not on the Gospels or scholarship (and not one Biblical scholar is thanked in the credits) on the visions of stigmatic Anna Catherine Emmerich, an anti-Semite from France of the 19th century. Scholarship tells us that Rome executed Jesus. In the period after the destruction of Jerusalem (70 CE) when the Gospels were written, it was politically expediant for the growing Christian community severed from its Jewish roots to blame the powerless Jews and absolve the powerful Roman empire. Truth is Caiaphas had no power, the temple authoritis had no authority, Pilate, a butcher, controlled all. This movie is one more Gibson film that celebrates male S&M (closing scene in Braveheart, Mad Max, Lethal Weapons) and is pornographic in its violence which exceeds the Gospel acccounts to glorify in bondage and torture. Vince Laurent Olszer wrote: > >Why add fuel to >the fire, and why revive these sentiments. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:40:23 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: Mel Gibson's movie, njc > This may just prove that you, Bree, have a pure heart. Unfortunately, many > others may be influenced in these troubled times by the church forsaken > doctrine of "jews killed Jesus". > Based on what I've read, I ask myself the question: why did Gibson revert to > this doctrine when even the Church gave it up 40 years ago? Why add fuel to > the fire, and why revive these sentiments. > Keep in mind that this movie will be shown worldwide so the potential for > damage is huge. I've read posts about this movie for awhile now and I think I will reserve my judgement until I actually view it, which I have not yet. But my initial impression is that I would hesitate to attribute motives to someone in a creative field and would prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt. From what Bree and others have said, I get the feeling that if you are already predisposed of a particular mindset, then you are going to have somewhat of a bias towards this film. I would prefer that films like this exist, that are somewhat controversial, than have everything be "politically correct" and not risk offending someone. I went to see "The Barbarian Invasions" last year, in which there is a considerable amount of heroin use. I suppose someone could infer that the director was promoting heroin use but that is definately not the case and anyone who makes such a suggestion is picking apart the film, reading things into it, and not just seeing it as the piece of art that it is. Anyway, I'm more interested in seeing "Secret Window" so it may be awhile before I see "Passion", if I see it at all. Victor NP: Jethro Tull -Songs From the Wood Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:13:53 +0100 From: "Gillian Apter" Subject: NJC Gill in Madrid Hello everyone, Just managed to read the list today after being away working.n in Barcelona, and after having my email account suspended for a million reasons, mainly viruses. As Mike said, I was in Barcelona when the carnage happened, and got home the day after. The city is totally in shock. I live near a big cemetary and everytime I pass, there is sadly so much activity. We are gutted. At first everyone thought it was ETA. Now it looks as if everyone's deeper fear has been fulfilled: Islamic terrotists. It is still unclear, but I don't think ETA had to do with this. A consequence of this tragedy has been a turnaround in the general election, with the right-wing PP party being ousted by the socialists in a totally unexpected result. The switch was undoubtedly due to anger at the PP for having got Spain involved in the Iraq war, which seems to have made us the targets for the Islamic terrorists. People were also up to their cojones with the PP's manipulation of news during the aftermath of the bomb attacks. It was very much in theri interest that ETA be the culprits, and the Al Qaeda link was washed over in the first day or two. .The real news took over eventually though before election day and the voting turn out yesterday was very high with Spaniards punishing the PP pretty harshly. I am so glad to see the back of them for the next 4 years at least. On another note, I am not getting all the posts I used to get becasue my server is trying to protect its clients for viruses, spam, etc, and seem to be blocking the JMDL now and again. I hope I can sort it out. My thoughts are with the victims. This was truly horrific. Thanks for your thoughts too. Peace, Gill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:21:22 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: madrid njc Adding my prayers and sympathy to all those who were affected by this horror. It is so heartbreaking, I don't have the words. When will this madness stop? Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:57:14 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Mel Gibson's movie, njc I didn't want to see this film because it has been described as so violent, but felt I had to in order to enter any discussion about it. It very much reminded me of Leni Reifenstahl's work, which is both a compliment and damning at the same time. It is very much a horror film and the Vince is so right to call the gore as bordering on posrnographic. The film revolted me, and I can imagine the hay that will be made when it opens in the MidEast. Jerry Now Listening on the Radio: Rebecca Lukar (Fresh Aire) on WMNF, my favorite Joni station, being interviewed and singing all Jerome Kern songs. Her new cd has River and Chelsea Morning on it. > Laurent, > > Gibson adds dialogue that is not in the Gospels to implicate the Jews. > He places Jews in situations and places they never would have been in to > implicate the Jews. He based his movie - not on the Gospels or > scholarship (and not one Biblical scholar is thanked in the credits) on > the visions of stigmatic Anna Catherine Emmerich, an anti-Semite from > France of the 19th century. Scholarship tells us that Rome executed > Jesus. In the period after the destruction of Jerusalem (70 CE) when > the Gospels were written, it was politically expediant for the growing > Christian community severed from its Jewish roots to blame the powerless > Jews and absolve the powerful Roman empire. > > Truth is Caiaphas had no power, the temple authoritis had no authority, > Pilate, a butcher, controlled all. > > This movie is one more Gibson film that celebrates male S&M (closing > scene in Braveheart, Mad Max, Lethal Weapons) and is pornographic in its > violence which exceeds the Gospel acccounts to glorify in bondage and > torture. > > Vince > > Laurent Olszer wrote: > >> >> Why add fuel to >> the fire, and why revive these sentiments. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:09:57 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: light of day NJC Just listening to 'Light of Day' the Springsteen tribute, and when listening to Jason Ringenberg doing 'My Hometown' it seems to me a perfect song for Victor to sing. Is this part of your repertoire Victor? What Springsteen song would you guys like Joni to sing? And vice versa? If Mr Muller could snaggle just one joni song by Bruce, which would it be mike in barcelona ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:35:19 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: light of day NJC Hey Mike, thanks for asking my opinion as I'm always happy to give it, even when it's NOT wanted! :~) I'd love to hear Joni do "Reason To Believe", a dark Bruce song that has a duality all its own. Either that or "If I Should Fall Behind" which is a lovely declaration of mutual love & respect. If Bruce was solo on acoustic he could do a great "Urge For Going", if those E-Street folks were backing him up, I'd love to hear them rock out on "Raised On Robbery" with the big man throwing in some tasty sax licks. Bob NP: The Nevilles, "Sacred Ground" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:47:54 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: New favourite saying NJC --- Lucy Hone wrote: > over So I want "mad as a squashed fox" to be manouevered > into something you say > during the course of the next week or so. It could > become a new catch > phrase... Please report back as to the reaction!!! Donna: I'll do it! Also work these into a conversation: "busier than a cow's tail in fly season" "businer than a one armed paper hanger" "nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs" db This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:19:40 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: light of day NJC 'My Hometown' it seems to me a perfect song for > Victor to sing. Is this part of your repertoire Victor? It isn't but I looked up the lyrics on the web and just tried playing it and I like singing it alot...I'll add it to my repertoire...thanks for the suggestion! Maybe Joni could do some weird fusion of Jungleland and Jungleline. Victor ps. still finishing up the "grace" cd...sorry :>) NP: Kirsty Macoll- Titanic Days Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:35:13 -0000 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: Viking Cats NJC sorry about the bandwidth but this was just plain daft and worth watching to the end especially for our very large cat loving community. if you like led zeppelin, you may enjoy it too. Les (london) Turn your speakers on and click this.............. http://www.drewandmalinda.com/viking/cats.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:13:18 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Mel Gibson's movie njc Thanks for your review bree... I am interested in seeing this movie but will wait for the smaller (dvd) screen where I won't be so overwhelmed by the violent parts... In hopes that this won't lead to a holy war :~}, I wanted to ask you what this means: >That I am just as responsible as the Jews of that time. . the Romans and whoever else was present for the arrest..and the death of Christ. I helped drive the nails!< I was raised protestant & I don't remember learning that we were all responsible for his death... >For Christians, that is why He was born..He was born to die. And from His death springs forth all hope.< For me it is his actual life that inspires me (but I'm not an official christian really)... The teachings of jesus informed my childhood in a very important way & certainly made me want to be a better person... PS there was a pretty funny parody on SLN on this movie with snippets of mel being interviewed about his movie then clips of 'humpty dumpty' falling & breaking...with long shots of all the egg yolk all over everything... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:04:09 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: Mel Gibson's movie, njc Wow, Jerry, how honest of you to have to watch the movie for being able to opine about it! I won't see that movie *never*: it's not hard for me, 'cause I never watch any movie with that actor in it, at least since "Gallipoli" & "The year of living dangerously", and that was ages before. I don't stand that man. That's all. I won't pay any money that goes to him, not even I will watch their films on tv (nor Shalamayan -sp?- "Signs"). The truth is, I feel I can opine about this film: I've carefully read Vince's post (both) and, being a man in whom I trust, I would like that if any of you keep on saying the movie's point of view it's according to the Bible, you must prove that. I'm a catholic (or rather say I was), I've spent 13 years in a catholic school (till the university, that's it), and when I read about any other stigmatic woman, I can't but shiver in disgust (excepting Teresa de 'Avila, of course). I'd say more: the reason that eventually something is according to the Bible isn't at all a good reason for maintaining its good aim, nor its truth. It's a true fallacy... unless you're talking about religious beliefs (in wich case I won't say no more... nor must you do it). Besides, accusing jew ethnic for murdering Jesus is childish, not only for it's not true, it has been long ago, Jesus was a jew himself... and, besides that, he wanted to or had to die: nobody killed him, or we must say each and everyone of us killed him. Please accept my apologies if it sounds very rude: you may take it as another prove you'll endure graciously. Yours: Emiliano, who always feel surprised at how easily religious people feel scandalized by each statement that doesn't go their way Ps: I gree with Laurent's advice: there are delicate questions (and in delicate times, indeed) that one should handle with much care: antisemitism is one (nor criticism regarding biblic interpretations) - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Jerry Notaro" Para: "vince" ; "Laurent Olszer" CC: "Joni List" Enviado: lunes, 15 de marzo de 2004 16:57 Asunto: Re: Mel Gibson's movie, njc > I didn't want to see this film because it has been described as so violent, > but felt I had to in order to enter any discussion about it. [...] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:29:30 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Shiny Toys - remix Hi, folks! I've been listening, thanks to Bob!, the Shiny Toys - remix: Surely the song deserved some remix for the disco halls! I've always felt that one of the uneasy things for listening to DED is to skip some songs. The other Joni albums I always hear them in its enterity (even repeating some glorious tracks), but DED... or I'm sitting listening carefully to it: in wich case I skip Fiction & Shiny Toys... or I'm happy trotting along the house, after having programmed my player to these two songs: in this case, I find them very short. This remix is clearly intended for Disco halls, from the years I've frequented them: it has underlined their effects (the bass and electronic percussion is stronger than the original), with a joyous coda with a woodwind sound (clarinet like, I think) and a lonely beach effect at the end. Of course, I will never recognise James Taylor & Don Henley in it, but sure they had a Wonderful time in it (as I do, hearing these "Mmm, mmm"). Yes, it's spasmodic, but I like it! Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano NP: Ethiopia, Bob Muller, Full Moon Resort, 8/9/03 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:38:18 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Viking Cats NJC --- "Ross, Les" wrote: > sorry about the bandwidth but this was just plain > daft and worth watching to > the end especially for our very large cat loving > community. if you like led > zeppelin, you may enjoy it too. > > Les (london) > > Turn your speakers on and click this.............. > > http://www.drewandmalinda.com/viking/cats.htm > Completely silly and fun. And I never knew the words to that song before either. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:47:53 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: NJC Gill in Madrid (PC) Gillian Apter wrote: > > A consequence of this tragedy has been a turnaround in the general election, > with the right-wing PP party being ousted by the socialists in a totally > unexpected result. The switch was undoubtedly due to anger at the PP for > having got Spain involved in the Iraq war, which seems to have made us the > targets for the Islamic terrorists. People were also up to their cojones with > the PP's manipulation of news during the aftermath of the bomb attacks. It was > very much in theri interest that ETA be the culprits, and the Al Qaeda link > was washed over in the first day or two. .The real news took over eventually > though before election day and the voting turn out yesterday was very high > with Spaniards punishing the PP pretty harshly. That's what has been reported in the U.S. national news broadcasts also. It's good to see the accounts match up. My (and probably most people's) first thought was that al Qaeda was responsible because of the high numbers of casualties and wounded, and the multiple attacks, and mostly because it's near the one-year anniversary of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, which I still think is the WORST and most destructive decision made by this administration. The citizens of any country that supported that decision are in danger. It makes sense to me that the German chancellor does not consider Germans to be in danger, and I hope the French are not either (although the reports about internal troubles there make it seem like a very tense place these days). It's probably crossed everyone's mind but I'll say it anyway... Londoners and fellow New Yorkers, watch out, and stay off the trains if you can, especially when they're packed at morning rush hour. I could literally strangle Bush myself every time he crows about how he's made the world a safer place! And then would have enough fury left over to work my way around the entire set of puppetmasters, like Cheney and Wolfowitz and Rice and Rumsfeld. The Sunday morning interview news shows had lots of them on yesterday, and they lie, completely lie. It made me sick to hear Condoleezza Rice *deny* that, pre-invasion, they'd all talked about the mushroom cloud in their attempt to get U.S. citizens to back up the invasion. According to her yesterday, all that was ever said was Dubya in his pre-war State of the Union speech saying that "we don't want to wait *until* it's an imminent threat". He did say that but there are LOTS of newsclips with him and all the eager-to-invade Bushies saying Saddam IS an imminent threat and vaguely tying him to 9/11, and that we must act RIGHT NOW! They knew they weren't telling us the truth, and people are dying as a result of their manipulations. Before some Bush-lover tells me that the current world difficulty was started by Osama bin Laden and his group of fundamentalists... (looked at simply) yes, it was, and the sensible thing to do would have been pursuing him relentlessly and finding him 2 and 1/2 YEARS ago, before his influence spread even more. Instead, the Bushies chose to wage their war that had been planned 10 years before, and as a result of that war not having the military resources to go after bin Laden. Now there's talk about the U.S. military and its "spring offensive" to find bin Laden. Well, how about that? And with the U.S. elections eight months away. I am not impressed. And I hope most people here see it for the crass political move it is. The "joke" here (from many different sources) is that bin Laden will be found in October, a few weeks before the election. Some people even think he's already been found, and the U.S. government is holding him until it's more politically advantageous for them to display him. That shows how distrustful many people here are of this administration. > I am so glad to see the back of them for the next 4 years at least. I hope U.S. citizens are as brave about making a change, and that we decisively oust the warmongers now in charge. Of course, Bush tv ads designed to make people afraid to change leaders are already being shown, so it won't be easy, and the election will probably be very close, but more and more people are fed up with the Bushies' lies and exploitation. Or at least, I hope so! New York is a liberal place, and it seems we feel in much more danger than people in other parts of the country feel, and my perceptions are influenced by that. > My thoughts are with the victims. This was truly horrific. Thanks for your > thoughts too. My thoughts are with the victims, too. And with all the victims of mass murderers, the hundreds of people who've died in the Middle East, the hundreds of people at the mosque, the war victims, the carnage just goes on and on. And the victims are not only the people who have died. The mind- and heart-numbing that makes life possible for the survivors is a loss also. Thanks for writing in, Gill. I appreciate your thoughts and am glad to know you're okay. Debra Shea, in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:49:15 +0000 From: colin Subject: puppy update njc The 6th and last puppy died this morning. nechung is not happy and is looking for her babies even tjo the last one was deliberately left with her a while so she could see it was dead. It doesn't seem tohave helped. In a day or sao she will forget. Dogs are good at that. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:03:40 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Mel Gibson's movie njc Kate Bennett wrote: > > > >>That I am just as responsible as the Jews of that time. . the Romans >> >> >and whoever else >was present for the arrest..and the death of Christ. I helped drive >the nails!< > >I was raised protestant & I don't remember learning that we were all >responsible for his death... > I wa raised inirially RC and taught by nuns and priests. they taught this and also that the Jews killed Jesus. I rejected both teachings by age 10. I still reject them as being ridiculous. It is worth remembering that there are other 'savior god' stories, dating befroe this one, and a god, as man, being killed for our sins. the idea is not new with the story of Jesus and is still a daft idea. The only person who 'pays for sins' is the sinner. No one else. We reap what we sow. Ther eis no escaping that. Even those deluded souls who think they are 'saved' still continue to reap what they sow. Jesus had a mesage-personal responsibility and showed that we survive physical death-all of us 'good' and 'bad' and also taught that we each 'pay' for our 'sin'. Way bakc when a child, I couldn't accpet and still do not, a God who would demand such a sacrifice as this story has been realted to mean. it is sick and very human. Only a human ego would demand such a thing, only a human ego would demand constant praise and worship. There is no love in the concept 'believe or perish'. I do not trust those who beieve it-it shows a dark ness within them and a lack of thinking. And those who ram hokme thier utter belief in scripture and really just telling us how they have total faith in their own judgement. It isn't faith in their God but faith in themselves that they hold so fervently. Jesus message was so simple'love they neighbout as theyself, do unto others that which you want done unto you, love yourself, personal responisibilty. Man and religionists have corrupted that simple message. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:26:55 +0100 From: "Gillian Apter" Subject: RE: NJC Gill in Madrid (PC) Dear Debra, thank you, from the heart, for your concern for everyone. You wrote: > I could literally strangle Bush myself every time he crows about how > he's made the world a safer place! And then would have enough fury left > over to work my way around the entire set of puppetmasters, like Cheney > and Wolfowitz and Rice and Rumsfeld. The Sunday morning interview news > shows had lots of them on yesterday, and they lie, completely lie. " I wholeheartedly agree with you on this and share your outrage. . It is such a shame that it took this carnage in Madrid to shock Spaniards into action with their vote. Our massive anti-war protests did nothing to sway the government's pre-invasion Bush-arselicking. I also agree with you that Bush will not be able to continue to pull the wool over people's eyes for much longer. I think he will lose (positive thinking) given the growing number of traditional republicans who are moving into the anti-war camp. Happily, our new prime minister, Zapatero, is saying he will bring the 1,300 troops in Iraq back by July if the UN doesn't do so before then. That will make a lot of people here very happy. I am, though, extremely fearful. I think the Madrid atrocity is just the beginning. Take care, Gill - ----- Original Message ----- From: dsk To: Gillian Apter ; Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 7:47 PM Subject: Re: NJC Gill in Madrid (PC) > Gillian Apter wrote: > > > > A consequence of this tragedy has been a turnaround in the general election, > > with the right-wing PP party being ousted by the socialists in a totally > > unexpected result. The switch was undoubtedly due to anger at the PP for > > having got Spain involved in the Iraq war, which seems to have made us the > > targets for the Islamic terrorists. People were also up to their cojones with > > the PP's manipulation of news during the aftermath of the bomb attacks. It was > > very much in theri interest that ETA be the culprits, and the Al Qaeda link > > was washed over in the first day or two. .The real news took over eventually > > though before election day and the voting turn out yesterday was very high > > with Spaniards punishing the PP pretty harshly. > > > I could literally strangle Bush myself every time he crows about how > he's made the world a safer place! And then would have enough fury left > over to work my way around the entire set of puppetmasters, like Cheney > and Wolfowitz and Rice and Rumsfeld. The Sunday morning interview news > shows had lots of them on yesterday, and they lie, completely lie. It > made me sick to hear Condoleezza Rice *deny* that, pre-invasion, they'd > all talked about the mushroom cloud in their attempt to get U.S. > citizens to back up the invasion. According to her yesterday, all that > was ever said was Dubya in his pre-war State of the Union speech saying > that "we don't want to wait *until* it's an imminent threat". He did say > that but there are LOTS of newsclips with him and all the > eager-to-invade Bushies saying Saddam IS an imminent threat and vaguely > tying him to 9/11, and that we must act RIGHT NOW! They knew they > weren't telling us the truth, and people are dying as a result of their manipulations. > > Before some Bush-lover tells me that the current world difficulty was > started by Osama bin Laden and his group of fundamentalists... (looked > at simply) yes, it was, and the sensible thing to do would have been > pursuing him relentlessly and finding him 2 and 1/2 YEARS ago, before > his influence spread even more. Instead, the Bushies chose to wage their > war that had been planned 10 years before, and as a result of that war > not having the military resources to go after bin Laden. Now there's > talk about the U.S. military and its "spring offensive" to find bin > Laden. Well, how about that? And with the U.S. elections eight months > away. I am not impressed. And I hope most people here see it for the > crass political move it is. The "joke" here (from many different > sources) is that bin Laden will be found in October, a few weeks before > the election. Some people even think he's already been found, and the > U.S. government is holding him until it's more politically advantageous > for them to display him. That shows how distrustful many people here are > of this administration. > > > I am so glad to see the back of them for the next 4 years at least. > > I hope U.S. citizens are as brave about making a change, and that we > decisively oust the warmongers now in charge. Of course, Bush tv ads > designed to make people afraid to change leaders are already being > shown, so it won't be easy, and the election will probably be very > close, but more and more people are fed up with the Bushies' lies and > exploitation. Or at least, I hope so! New York is a liberal place, and > it seems we feel in much more danger than people in other parts of the > country feel, and my perceptions are influenced by that. > > > My thoughts are with the victims. This was truly horrific. Thanks for your > > thoughts too. > > My thoughts are with the victims, too. And with all the victims of mass > murderers, the hundreds of people who've died in the Middle East, the > hundreds of people at the mosque, the war victims, the carnage just goes > on and on. And the victims are not only the people who have died. The > mind- and heart-numbing that makes life possible for the survivors is a > loss also. > > Thanks for writing in, Gill. I appreciate your thoughts and am glad to > know you're okay. > > Debra Shea, > in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:56:25 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Shiny Toys - remix > NP: Ethiopia, Bob Muller, Full Moon Resort, 8/9/03 > Lucky you to have a copy of this. One of the more emotional moments of Jonifest 2003. Jerry NP: You Believed in Me - Karla Bonoff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:46:57 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Mel Gibson's movie, njc Emiliano, thank you for your post I have gone into many movies and found myself with a totally different opinion of what it was than what I expected. When I was in line to see this movie, I was actually prepared to give it the benefit of the doubt. However... One could have a drinking game where you take a shot every time something happens in the movie that is mentioned in the Gospels and you'd walk out stone cold sober sure it is "Bible-esque" - Biblical costume dramas are - a few examples: a few minutes after it begins, Jesus commits an act of brutal violence and kills a living creature -- ok, that screws it right there - set aside the theological issue that this scene violates everything in the Gospels and setting aside that the Biblical account of Jesus and the devil happens at the very beginning of Jesus' ministry, not in the garden and that Jesus did not respond in any way with a brutal act of violence - setting that aside, that undercuts the entire movie because Jesus did not resist violence and haviung Jesus as brutally violenmt as anyone else - it truly offended me as a member of the clergy and sure I can see what the symbolism was supposed to be but that was so antiGospel that it fails in every way the whipping scene - 15 minutes of it - the Gospel account is very specific as to the number of times Jesus was whipped - in this movie the Roman soldiers are counting in Latin - never mind in reality they spoke Greek - they get to that number - and then they keep on going. I lost track countiung when it got into the 100s but to falsify a number that the Bible is very specific on for the sake of extending S&M bondage scenes - offends me in every way I could go scene by scene in that movie and point out the material that is so nonbiblical as to be offensive to one who values the Scriptures as I do (including a line said by Pilate that blames the Jews that is no where in the Scriptures) - if Gibson has said "this is my interpretation" it would be far less of as problem - but he advertised this as being faithful to the Gospel accounts and it is faithless and to have marketed this to churches was a brilliant marketing ploy but it is a fraud and given that we live in the shadow of Holocaust it is beyond offensive in my experience the passion account in Jesus Christ Superstar is far superior as an interpretation in every way and of course there is the question where the crucifixion accounts in the Scriptures (which are all evry brief) are history remembered or prophecy historiczed... Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:54:40 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Stryngs news (NJC) Congratulations to all members of Stryngs! I hope so much to see you all again at Jonifest 2004. Your performances at Jonifest 2003 were among the highlights of the fest for me! Keep on rockin, love db >>> Chris Marshall 3/14/2004 6:53:18 AM >>> On 14 Mar 2004, at 10:32, Gertus@aol.com wrote: > Both these pieces of news are very exciting! Well done indeed. > However you don't mention when the gig in Cambridge is exactly. I feel > I might just like to be there if I possibly can! The information about the Cambridge gig is up on our website, with links to the venue web pages and a map. www.stryngs.com as usual. You do need to book tickets in advance though since numbers are limited due to the venue being so small. Any UK JMDLers who want to come and are some distance away could always meet us at my place in the afternoon. E-mail me offline as appropriate. Right, must go, new songs to attend to. Bounce... - --Chris Marshall chrisATstryngs.com (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:37:58 -0500 From: dsk Subject: No Jonatha! NJC Last night, Sunday, a friend and I had tickets to see Jonatha Brooke at the Public Theater. So after an early dinner we stroll over there, and find out the show had been cancelled because Jonatha was sick. Well, darn. Missed her again. If anyone's interested in seeing her, she's there tomorrow night through next Sunday and there are still tickets available, but I'd call first to make sure the show's still on. So instead of Jonatha we got to see the new Tim Robbins play, "Embedded," which was also at the Public Theater. What a great place. The people who met us at the door to tell us about Jonatha offered us tickets to the new Tim Robbins play, "Embedded," to ease our disappointment. So after getting a refund for our Jonatha tickets, we get our comp tickets and pop into one of the theaters there to see this new play. I don't have much to say about it except that it was an obvious and heavy-handed critique of the Iraq war and the way the media was controlled, and Robbins was pretty much playing to the choir with his liberal views. There were some affecting scenes... it was definitely uncomfortable when a soldier aimed his automatic rifle into the audience and "fired." He represented the soldier who shot the family in a car at a checkpoint. Affecting, too, to see the distress of the Jessica Lynch-type character, not only because her friends had been killed, but also at realizing how she was being used by the administration. And sadly and oddly funny when the warmonger characters got so turned on by their power. All of it was like being hit over the head with a mallet, so thankfully it wasn't a very long show. And, to Tim Robbins' credit, he is at least willing to openly use these current events in his creation. It's hard, maybe impossible, though for artists who are in the thick of things to create their best work ("best" as in resonating for generations). It's too easy to fall into cliches when there's no distance from what's happening. And he did. But, then after the show, the lobby was filled with well-known people, mostly actors. That was an extremely pleasant surprise, and it turns out that last night was the opening of the show, which is weird because it's been there for a few weeks, but maybe those were previews. So, Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon and John Turturro (I like that guy) were there and lots of other people, too. Al Franken passed by and I got a chance to say "great book" and "thank you for doing that", to which he just smiled and nodded. The evening was one of those New York surprises that I enjoy so much. It's one of the things that keeps me here, for now anyway, through all the difficulties. Debra Shea, in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:41:06 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Vienna Teng NJC Vienna Teng is a wonderful new singer-songwriter, plays piano, good tunes, complex lyrics, and she's at Joe's Pub at the Public Theater tomorrow night, 7:30. I think you'd like her Bob! Just passing the info along... Debra Shea, in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:08:36 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Mel Gibson's movie, njc --- Laurent Olszer wrote: > > When I was 7 years old, I got insulted in the > school yard by a kid who > added the justification that jews killed Jesus. > This 7 year old must have > heard it from somewhere. Now even if it were true, > it may seem crazy to you > to blame some people for what their ancestors did or > didn't do 2K years ago. > But millions of people were killed because of crazy > ideas like this. > Nowadays the "dirty jew" insult is so commonplace in > french schools that the > ministry of education just printed a book for > teachers on how to deal with > this problem. I'm appalled that people would teach that kind of hatred to young children and dismayed that this is going on in France (again) - never mind in France, I'm sure the French aren't the only ones. I wasn't happy to hear about the French gov't banning Muslim women and girls from wearing their veils in public - that should be a personal choice. Do you ever get the feeling that the lowest common denominator is in the majority and anyone with a brain or a heart is a freak of some kind? Let's all look and think alike. Or rather, let's just look alike and not bother about the thinking at all. I was raised in a Catholic environment and some of the nuns that taught us were very old-school fire-and-brimstone types (others were very sweet and caring people), but don't remember anyone ever "blaming" the Jews for the death of Jesus. When I first heard that mentioned, I didn't understand it at all. To this very day, I don't understand the obvious lack of logic that goes into that. One thing I do remember in Good Friday services was praying for the Jews (to convert or something like that) and, even as a young child, it pissed me off a lot that our church could have the nerve to think any other religion was "wrong", so I would never read that part and later on, I just refused to go to church on Good Friday at all. I don't want to see the Gibson film. It sounds too violent for my liking. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:11:10 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: light of day NJC --- mike pritchard wrote: > Just listening to 'Light of Day' the Springsteen > tribute, and when listening > to Jason Ringenberg doing 'My Hometown' it seems to > me a perfect song for > Victor to sing. Is this part of your repertoire > Victor? What Springsteen song > would you guys like Joni to sing? And vice versa? If > Mr Muller could snaggle > just one joni song by Bruce, which would it be > mike in barcelona I'd like to hear Bruce sing "River" and his own "The River" as a two-fer. And I'd like to hear Joni sing Bruce's "Cover me." ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:15:45 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: puppy update njc --- colin wrote: > The 6th and last puppy died this morning. nechung is > not happy and is > looking for her babies even tjo the last one was > deliberately left with > her a while so she could see it was dead. It doesn't > seem tohave helped. > In a day or sao she will forget. Dogs are good at > that. This is so heartbreaking, Colin. Poor Nechung. I can't imagine how it must be for animals. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:33:59 -0500 From: "Joseph S.E. Palis" Subject: philly (njc) Hi JMDLers, I am currently in Philly (til Friday) attending the Centennial Meeting of the Association of American Geograghers. I just ant to know if Philly-based JMDLers would like to meet up for a couple of drinks, sometime? I just attended all sessions in cinema and geography as well as other similar-stuff and I think I would like to discuss some Joni with like-minded individuals. Email me off list if interested. I live in Sheraton Society Hill Hotel at Walnut and 2nd street. Room 2094. Philly is lovely. Very lovely, in fact, but I lost 120 dollars today.... Joseph Joseph S.E. Palis Department of Geography University of North Carolina Saunders Hall, CB 3220 Chapel Hill, N.C. 27599-3220 palis@email.unc.edu joepalis@yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:00:49 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Re: Mel Gibson's movie, njc > Catherine wrote: > I was raised in a Catholic environment and some of the > nuns that taught us were very old-school > fire-and-brimstone types (others were very sweet and > caring people), but don't remember anyone ever > "blaming" the Jews for the death of Jesus. In France nowadays, catholic schools are the only safe place for jews. I know, I put my kids in 1 (we didn't want a traditional jewish school either). They won't tolerate any of the crap that's openly going on in public schools. To be racist there is grounds for immediate dismissal. My daughters are exempt from mass, but they follow religious classes, in which jews are referred to as the "elder brothers". Isn't it a beautiful world we live in? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:11:14 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: content, njc Bree wrote: > It's when your feeling *CONTEMPT then you tell it. Hi Bree! I think it is fitting that you typed "content" the first time, after typing your contentment with Mel's moving movie. Thanks for telling that... contentment needs to be expressed as well as contempt in my opinion. Speaking of being content with a movie... we went to see Hidalgo today. It is definitely a movie full of passion! One I would like to buy when it comes out on DVD. I love the way the lead character calls the horse "brother." Very American Indian and very Franciscan. What an awesome ending! Hope you get to see it soon if you haven't already. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:36:42 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Joni at Starbucks Subject: Starbucks Make Music, njc now really Speaking of Starbucks... I've heard songs from at least three Joni albums on the Starbucks in-house collections. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:05:13 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Mel Gibson's movie njc now God & all that --- colin wrote: > The only person who 'pays for sins' is the sinner. > No one else. We reap > what we sow. Ther eis no escaping that. Even those > deluded souls who > think they are 'saved' still continue to reap what > they sow. Jesus had a > mesage-personal responsibility and showed that we > survive physical > death-all of us 'good' and 'bad' and also taught > that we each 'pay' for > our 'sin'. > Way bakc when a child, I couldn't accpet and still > do not, a God who > would demand such a sacrifice as this story has been > realted to mean. it > is sick and very human. Only a human ego would > demand such a thing, only > a human ego would demand constant praise and > worship. There is no love > in the concept 'believe or perish'. This is what I believe. I don't particularly believe in God as such, although I believe in some kind of higher power or life force and some reason to be good and noble and all that, otherwise, what's the point of being here and being alive? Man made God in his own image and not the other way around, and that's why we impute all those stupid reasonings and beliefs and petty arguments to God. Also, any God that is so petty and mean that he would *demand* to be *adored* and would want people to follow a bunch of rules that make no sense, isn't worth believing in. If I go to hell for that (nya-nya - can't go! don't believe!), then I know I'll be among friends. (That'll be Jonifest in Hell. Bring the marshmallows.) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #111 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)