From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #110 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, March 15 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 110 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: My Bad Boys will be touring the UK May 20-June 6 NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.c] Starbucks Make Music, njc now really ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Move on, Joni ["Marianne Rizzo" ] RE: Move on, Joni ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Mel Gibson's movie njc ["Kevin Arshad" ] Today's Library Links: March 15 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:52:39 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: My Bad Boys will be touring the UK May 20-June 6 NJC "notice Bob I've included that SC gig. Dunno know if you are near there" Not in May...Murrells Inlet is right next to Pawley's Island, so if they come back in July maybe I'll catch them then. Mickey Spillane lives in Murrells Inlet, maybe he'll disco down and check out the show. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:01:02 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Starbucks Make Music, njc now really Speaking of Starbucks... I was in Starbucks the other day when they were playing some Stan Getz, followed by Dave Brubeck Quartet (featuring Paul Desmond), followed by Charlie Parker. I wondered aloud to a co-worker if they were using a radio-like "service" or if they were playing a CD. We each asked a different Starbucks employee simultaneously. One young lady said, "a service", and the other said, "a CD." :) It turns out it was a CD, sent from Corporate. It had dozens of tracks, the Starbucks logo, and the smallest font I've ever seen. (Isn't it funny how fonts get smaller and smaller after age 43?) All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:11:17 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Mel Gibson's movie njc I first heard about Mel Gibson's passion to make this movie a year ago or so. I thought that when it came out I would see it. So that is what I did. A week later I'm still thinking, not so much about the movie, but about this man Jesus Christ who was portrayed in the movie. I found not one scintilla of anti-Semitism..it just wasn't there. I would say that probably more than 90% was scriptural, because even before the subtitles were flashed up on the screen I knew what Jesus Christ or others in the movie would say. This comes from growing up Catholic and going to Mass during Lent. . . . the Stations Of the Cross, etc. My feelings in a nutshell are these: That I am just as responsible as the Jews of that time. . the Romans and whoever else was present for the arrest..and the death of Christ. I helped drive the nails! I left the theater wanting to be a better person. . it was that inspiring. I felt nothing but love. . love in the big sense. Mel Gibson's motive? (a hidden agenda?) No one knows for sure, but my hunch is, his motive was as simple as portraying the life of of a man he reveres at the most pivotal time to what was to later become Christianity. For Christians, that is why He was born..He was born to die. And from His death springs forth all hope. So not to show the crucifixion or to tone it down would have been dishonest. The crucifixion is the core ..the heart ...the reason Should Spielberg had not have shown the shower scene in Schindler's list? I found nothing sinister..or ugly about this movie. Was it hard to watch at times? Yes, absolutely! I found myself closing my eyes. . . .very hard to watch. It is what it is, though. Overall I feel the film will enrich people's lives. Bree _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:39:58 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Move on, Joni Kate, I appreciate what you have written here about Joni expressing her experiences and feelings. Your analogies make al lot of sense. It's true that if someone is treated unfairly, that they need to express it, sometimes several times. It is helpful to have another person listen. I want to hear what is on Joni's mind. And if is still on her mind I still want to hear it. Joni, long live the tongue and the bell. Your gift goes on... spread your light... when your feeling content well then you tell it ( alright by me ) when your are tired of the silent night... then you yell it... strike every chord you feel. Marianne Hii Mary! I'm sorry to respond to your rare post from lurkdom by disagreeing with you, and I hope it won't keep you from posting again, and often. I am speaking in general when I say what follows, not implying that you or you alone said the things I am speaking to. What are "trifling and no-so-trifling negative points" to some, are obviously not trifling to Joni. Imagine telling Gloria Steinem to stop commenting on the injustices women face in the world, or expecting Germaine Greer to overlook the way insidious as well as overt social and cultural attitudes toward women affect our lives. Hell, no! We may get sick of hearing about it and think they are just repeating a shrill strident rant that's getting old and going nowhere, but sexist inequality still exists and I can't imagine either of these feminist activists "moving on" and not mentioning it again. Or being expected to do so. Or hey, maybe the gay folk could stop talking about their hurts from, and frustrations with, the prejudices in this world? Because we've heard it before, after all, and we'd just rather not keep hearing about it? Why don't they just count their blessings and behave themselves? What's with these Gay Pride rallies and this running up to Canada to get married stuff? Do the rest of us really want all this in our faces? Let them do what they want, but we don't want to see it or hear about it. (I'm being flip, but I've heard these sorts of remarks from plenty of straight people.) Yes, Joni has had many successes. More successes than failures; so she should be a gracious lady and not repeat her diatribe that the music industry and the media attitude have been and continue to be unfair and even disrespectful and stupid? that it isn't necessarily the 'best' or the most deserving that get the fame and the respect and career success? That's kinda like saying North American women have it so good compared to women in other parts of the world, that we have no business bitching We should be thankful for what we've got and move on! We shouldn't concern ourselves any longer with matters that displease us. If you speak about injustice much, or the disappointments in your life, there will always be people who get tired of hearing about it and wish you'd keep your mouth shut. Move on! After a while, we just don't want to hear it any more. But to suggest that Joni is just trotting out the same old whine is ... well, okay, maybe she is! Because there is as much truth to it as there ever was. So she should just keep mum, because she's said it before? Or she "should" get beyond her response to it and come up with a newer and more acceptable one? When have you ever known human nature to be like that? Some resentments never go away, even if you do manage to keep them under wraps so you can appear to be above it all. It's difficult if not sometimes impossible to act the beneficient lady when something pisses you off, but hey, that's what we're supposed to do if we're a queen in our own right, is it? Make like Queen Elizabeth II in public? Pretend we barely notice the imperfections, it doesn't matter, that we're too sophisticated and classy to be affected? That we're too cool to get hot under the collar and stay that way? Mature, gracious ladies spout off too, if they have the guts. And Joni does. And she'll keep spouting off, I hope, as long as she feels it's necessary and as long as the situation -- or her memory of it -- picks her ass. I'd like to think that Joni is a big enough person to be generous and gracious toward other musicians, and I am sure she often is, but that doesn't make good copy. But even if she is a conceited diva -- so what? She's earned the right to be. No false modesty for our Joan. She IS a genius and doesn't short-sell herself. 'Course, we aren't too comfortable hearing such self-confident sentiments coming out of a woman's mouth. And criticizing and undermining the successes of others? Isn't she just being a jealous, small-minded bitch? I don't think so. Why should she stop talking about any subject when she has something to say? Even if she's said it before? The bullshit is still going on, isn't it? If Joni Mitchell is commenting upon a situation 10,000 times and I think she has nothing new to say, it wouldn't be the first time. As with her music, which continues to surprise and dazzle me with aspects I didn't hear in it the first 10,000 times I listened to a particular song, she's worth listening to. My critical thinking may not be up to snuff when I mention Joni's attitude toward the music industry in the same breath as feminist and gay problems in society. I'm sure you can poke lots of holes in my logic. But I hope I've managed to make my point that if Joni Mitchell has something to say, all power to her. Maybe eventually it will make a difference in the world, but not likely. However, they say abused women discuss their abuse an average of 30 times before they take action to get out of the violent situation and "move on." Maybe Joni is still working through some similar mental/emotional process herself. Kate du Nord _________________________________________________________________ One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page  download MSN Toolbar now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:53:10 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: Move on, Joni I typed this for Marianne and I screwed up a bit. It's when your feeling *CONTEMPT then you tell it. Bree >From: "Marianne Rizzo" >Reply-To: "Marianne Rizzo" >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Move on, Joni >Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:39:58 -0500 > >Kate, > >I appreciate what you have written here about Joni expressing her >experiences and feelings. Your analogies make al lot of sense. > >It's true that if someone is treated unfairly, that they need to express >it, sometimes several times. > >It is helpful to have another person listen. I want to hear what is on >Joni's mind. And if is still on her mind I still want to hear it. > > >Joni, long live the tongue and the bell. > >Your gift goes on... > >spread your light... > >when your feeling content well then you tell it ( alright by me ) > >when your are tired of the silent night... > >then you yell it... > >strike every chord you feel. > > >Marianne > > > >Hii Mary! I'm sorry to respond to your rare post from lurkdom by >disagreeing >with you, and I hope it won't keep you from posting again, and often. I am >speaking in general when I say what follows, not implying that you or you >alone said the things I am speaking to. > >What are "trifling and no-so-trifling negative points" to some, are >obviously not trifling to Joni. > >Imagine telling Gloria Steinem to stop commenting on the injustices women >face in the world, or expecting Germaine Greer to overlook the way >insidious >as well as overt social and cultural attitudes toward women affect our >lives. Hell, no! We may get sick of hearing about it and think they are >just >repeating a shrill strident rant that's getting old and going nowhere, but >sexist inequality still exists and I can't imagine either of these feminist >activists "moving on" and not mentioning it again. Or being expected to do >so. > >Or hey, maybe the gay folk could stop talking about their hurts from, and >frustrations with, the prejudices in this world? Because we've heard it >before, after all, and we'd just rather not keep hearing about it? Why >don't >they just count their blessings and behave themselves? What's with these >Gay >Pride rallies and this running up to Canada to get married stuff? Do the >rest of us really want all this in our faces? Let them do what they want, >but we don't want to see it or hear about it. (I'm being flip, but I've >heard these sorts of remarks from plenty of straight people.) > >Yes, Joni has had many successes. More successes than failures; so she >should be a gracious lady and not repeat her diatribe that the music >industry and the media attitude have been and continue to be unfair and >even >disrespectful and stupid? that it isn't necessarily the 'best' or the most >deserving that get the fame and the respect and career success? > >That's kinda like saying North American women have it so good compared to >women in other parts of the world, that we have no business bitching We >should be thankful for what we've got and move on! We shouldn't concern >ourselves any longer with matters that displease us. > >If you speak about injustice much, or the disappointments in your life, >there will always be people who get tired of hearing about it and wish >you'd >keep your mouth shut. Move on! After a while, we just don't want to hear it >any more. But to suggest that Joni is just trotting out the same old whine >is ... well, okay, maybe she is! Because there is as much truth to it as >there ever was. So she should just keep mum, because she's said it before? >Or she "should" get beyond her response to it and come up with a newer and >more acceptable one? When have you ever known human nature to be like that? >Some resentments never go away, even if you do manage to keep them under >wraps so you can appear to be above it all. > >It's difficult if not sometimes impossible to act the beneficient lady when >something pisses you off, but hey, that's what we're supposed to do if >we're >a queen in our own right, is it? Make like Queen Elizabeth II in public? >Pretend we barely notice the imperfections, it doesn't matter, that we're >too sophisticated and classy to be affected? That we're too cool to get >hot >under the collar and stay that way? > >Mature, gracious ladies spout off too, if they have the guts. And Joni >does. >And she'll keep spouting off, I hope, as long as she feels it's necessary >and as long as the situation -- or her memory of it -- picks her ass. > >I'd like to think that Joni is a big enough person to be generous and >gracious toward other musicians, and I am sure she often is, but that >doesn't make good copy. But even if she is a conceited diva -- so what? >She's earned the right to be. No false modesty for our Joan. She IS a >genius >and doesn't short-sell herself. 'Course, we aren't too comfortable hearing >such self-confident sentiments coming out of a woman's mouth. And >criticizing and undermining the successes of others? Isn't she just being a >jealous, small-minded bitch? > >I don't think so. > >Why should she stop talking about any subject when she has something to >say? Even if she's said it before? The bullshit is still going on, isn't >it? >If Joni Mitchell is commenting upon a situation 10,000 times and I think >she >has nothing new to say, it wouldn't be the first time. As with her music, >which continues to surprise and dazzle me with aspects I didn't hear in it >the first 10,000 times I listened to a particular song, she's worth >listening to. > >My critical thinking may not be up to snuff when I mention Joni's attitude >toward the music industry in the same breath as feminist and gay problems >in >society. I'm sure you can poke lots of holes in my logic. But I hope I've >managed to make my point that if Joni Mitchell has something to say, all >power to her. Maybe eventually it will make a difference in the world, but >not likely. However, they say abused women discuss their abuse an average >of >30 times before they take action to get out of the violent situation and >"move on." Maybe Joni is still working through some similar >mental/emotional >process herself. > >Kate du Nord > >_________________________________________________________________ >One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page  download MSN Toolbar now! >http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ _________________________________________________________________ Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as $29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:59:11 -0600 From: "Kevin Arshad" Subject: Re: Mel Gibson's movie njc AMEN to that. Thank you for saying all that and may the LORD who rose and is alive and aware of all things today,BLESS you. HE is alive. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bree Mcdonough To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 7:11 PM Subject: Mel Gibson's movie njc I first heard about Mel Gibson's passion to make this movie a year ago or so. I thought that when it came out I would see it. So that is what I did. A week later I'm still thinking, not so much about the movie, but about this man Jesus Christ who was portrayed in the movie. I found not one scintilla of anti-Semitism..it just wasn't there. I would say that probably more than 90% was scriptural, because even before the subtitles were flashed up on the screen I knew what Jesus Christ or others in the movie would say. This comes from growing up Catholic and going to Mass during Lent. . . . the Stations Of the Cross, etc. My feelings in a nutshell are these: That I am just as responsible as the Jews of that time. . the Romans and whoever else was present for the arrest..and the death of Christ. I helped drive the nails! I left the theater wanting to be a better person. . it was that inspiring. I felt nothing but love. . love in the big sense. Mel Gibson's motive? (a hidden agenda?) No one knows for sure, but my hunch is, his motive was as simple as portraying the life of of a man he reveres at the most pivotal time to what was to later become Christianity. For Christians, that is why He was born..He was born to die. And from His death springs forth all hope. So not to show the crucifixion or to tone it down would have been dishonest. The crucifixion is the core ..the heart ...the reason Should Spielberg had not have shown the shower scene in Schindler's list? I found nothing sinister..or ugly about this movie. Was it hard to watch at times? Yes, absolutely! I found myself closing my eyes. . . .very hard to watch. It is what it is, though. Overall I feel the film will enrich people's lives. Bree _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 02:33:20 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: March 15 On March 15 the following articles were published: 1969: "Open Letter to Joni" - Saskatoon StarPhoenix (Opinion) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=770 1998: "Dylan, Mitchell, Morrison coming" - Vancouver Sun (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=399 1998: "Hittin' The Road" - Jam! Website (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=140 1998: "Morrison May Join Dylan / Mitchell Tour" - Ticketmaster Live Daily website (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=383 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #110 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)