From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #106 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, March 12 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 106 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Bush stupid? NJC [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: Bush stupid? NJC, now recurring Helen Reddy thread [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Cheryl Wheeler - NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Kinda personal HOSL and Hejira stuff, njc ["Patti Parlette" ] Rick Lee ["jlobello" ] Re: Rickie Lee NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Dulcimer (medium Joni Content) ["jlobello" ] RE: dont interrupt the sorrow ["robin mortlock" ] Re: Dulcimer (medium Joni Content) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Bush stupid? NJC, now recurring Helen Reddy thread [Doug ] Re: John Guerin and Joni photo ["amelio747" ] rickie lee jones and Joni ["Marianne Rizzo" ] bow down ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: Desert island Discs SJC - (that was kinda' obvious I guess) ["amelio7] [none] ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: rickie lee jones and Joni [Jerry Notaro ] RE: rickie lee jones and Joni ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: rickie lee jones and Joni [Emiliano ] Leonard cohen (NJC) [Chorando6@aol.com] Re: rlj sjc [Randy Remote ] YESTERDAY, njc now ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: John Guerin and Joni photo ["michael o'malley" ] Recurring Bryan Thomas thread, njc I guess if I had to declare, and I do ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: rlj sjc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Joni: Our Lady Of Duality, a link to an essay ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: rlj sjc ["Kakki" ] Today's Library Links: March 12 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 03:34:14 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Bush stupid? NJC >A tragic fire on Monday destroyed the personal library of President George >W. Bush. Both of his books have been lost. > >A Presidential spokesman said the President was devastated, >as he had not finished coloring the second one." > That's funny, but let's not think for a moment that GWB is dense. He's certainly no intellectual but he ain't dumb - the guy is sly like a fox. Bryan, Finally out of the closet as a Helen Reddy fan NP: I am Woman: The Essential Helen Reddy Collection ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:06:03 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Bush stupid? NJC, now recurring Helen Reddy thread **NP: I am Woman: The Essential Helen Reddy Collection LOL! Bryan, your NP reminds me of the Second City sketch where John Candy & Joe Flaherty were the two guys who blew things up and then would say "he (or she) blew up REAL good!". One episode had Catherine O'Hara as Helen Reddy, singing 'I Am Woman', they blew her up once, the head was still singing "I AM INVINCIBLE" and they had to blow it up again. I laughed so hard I wet 'em. I'm sure this sounds pretty stupid to those who don't remember the comedy bit, but for those who do you'll be smiling all day like me. Thanks for the reminder! Bob NP: Norah Jones ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:34:48 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Cheryl Wheeler - NJC For you lucky NYC people: Satalla presents Cheryl Wheeler April 16, 2004 Contemporary folk Cheryl Wheeler has been a mainstay of the US folk scene for almost 25 years. Combining an ability to write heartbreakingly beautiful ballads with a hilarious sense of humor, Cheryl is a tremendously gifted all-around performer. Her ballads, often beautiful enough to move the listener to tears, have been covered by many artists (Suzy Bogguss had a #1 hit with Cheryl's song "Aces"), while her funny songs, which are unfortunately rarely recorded, make her live shows absolutely riotous. If you get the chance I definitely recommend seeing this wonderful woman live. (Sherlyn.Koo) Satalla 37 West 26th Street New York, NY 10010 (Broadway & 6th Ave) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:00:21 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Kinda personal HOSL and Hejira stuff, njc Dear Sherelle, I know just what you mean! I am absolutely addicted to HOSL lately. Just when I think I've made it through a day without listening to it, as I'm getting in to bed, I just HAVE to go put it on again. Whatever it meant to me as a senior in college is totally different now. "Don't Interrupt the Sorrow" is my new anthem -- it gives me strength. And dear Noel (with the very moving Hejira car-ride): Love is touching souls. Thank you for sharing yours with us. That was beautiful. Bless your heart. Peace, Patti (with "a heart like Mary's these days.....") P.S. Any anti-touchy/feely flamers out there? Now you be POLITE! _________________________________________________________________ Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:08:29 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: covers. . .instrumental Joni >When I listen to Bob's Joni covers and hear the > > instrumental only pieces. . > > something special happens. > > > > They are so lovely. . . > > >... > > > and I remenber listening to a cover a while back, > > BSN by Les Irvin. . . I > > think he played BSN on the mandolin. (I think). . > > and I thought the same > > thing. . . . how the instrumental versions move me. > > > > I like them sometimes in the background of other > > things I am doing. . .. . . > > > > so beautiful. > >Marianne, if you don't have it already, you should get >our own jmdler Fred Simon's "Songs of my youth." He >has beautiful piano versions of some Joni, some Dylan, >some Beatles and a song or two he composed himself. >Beautiful arrangements and they make lovely background >music - but you can also actively listen to them too >(and sing along - in other words, it's not the boring >kind of background music, it's the other kind, the >lovely stuff.) Yes...I have Fred 's "Songs of my Youth" and it is quite lovely. It was through this Cd that I realized how really beautiful Joni's melodies are. Especially..."Michael From Mountains". Bree >===== >Catherine >Toronto >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction > > > > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _________________________________________________________________ Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as $29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:14:52 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Kinda personal HOSL and Hejira stuff, After the discussions we've had on HOSL I spun my copy a couple of times as well. And while the whole work is just amazing, the one line that always jumps out at me is this one: "Compelled by prescribed standards Or some ideals we fight For wrong wrong and right" It just seems to encapsulate why people (including myself) are driven to do things & make choices, often not using any logic other than that which has previously existed. I don't know if anybody else can relate to that or if that lyric stands out for anyone else but it's always seemed to have such a profound ring of truth to me. And it's an interesting sum-up to HOSL, which goes from portrait to portrait and then winds up with this song of a universal theme. Bob NP: Bob Mould, "One Good Reason" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:51:16 -0500 From: cul Subject: Re: Kinda personal HOSL and Hejira stuff, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: I can totally relate to what you are saying, Bob. The whole song to me describes how we are all locked into the binary world of comparatives. Hostage smiles on presidents Freedom scribbled in the subway from the most powerful man held captive by the political constraints of his position and office to the disenfranchised complaints of the boho zoner needing to declare he "was here" both victims of their circumstance and the vageries of the infinite dance beteen "this" and "that" i hear you. cul >After the discussions we've had on HOSL I spun my copy a >couple of times as well. And while the whole work is just >amazing, the one line that always jumps out at me is this one: > >"Compelled by prescribed standards >Or some ideals we fight >For wrong wrong and right" > >It just seems to encapsulate why people (including myself) >are driven to do things & make choices, often not using any >logic other than that which has previously existed. I don't >know if anybody else can relate to that or if that lyric >stands out for anyone else but it's always seemed to have >such a profound ring of truth to me. >And it's an interesting sum-up to HOSL, which goes from >portrait to portrait and then winds up with this song of >a universal theme. > >Bob > >NP: Bob Mould, "One Good Reason" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:05:49 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: Rick Lee Gus I agree with you, there is no need for Rickie to bow down to Joni. Rickie is just as "good" a singer song writer in her own right. And, she may even be more accessible to her fans than Joni. I know that she is more politically active (at least her in the States--Joni may be more politically active in Canada than she is here). I have just been to her web-site. And, she demands more from her discussion list people too. She requires a minimum yearly 40 dollar donation (to go to her charity) as admittance. In a recent posting I said that Rickie might be able to reach me. I just listened to the only tape I have (and you know it has to be her first album--Chunk E's in Love). Rickie with her Billie Hollidayish clipped vocal style doesn't sound at all like Joni; however, they both sing with the same amount of emotional intensity. But to look at these two singers from afar (like I'm doing) I would say that they have far more in common than not. They both have huge problems with the recording industry, they are both free thinker and highly opinionated and they are both super smart. I would hope that the two would be closer to one another (friendshipwise), and it would be awesome if they ever did anything together. But, then again, I'd also like to see Joni be invited to appear on Mariam McPartland's Piano Jazz show (will it ever happen? I doubt it!). I have a hard time understanding Rickies words which is probably why I was put off by her style in the first place. And, as I said before, I have absolutely nothing of Rickie's beside her first album--what would you suggest I pick up? Also, I think Rickie now lives in Olympia, Washington--I wonder if she plays at any small "joints" (venues) there? I want to see her play up close. Later. Jono ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:00:04 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Rickie Lee NJC Pirates is her masterpiece IMO, Jono. Right on its heels would be Evening Of My Best Day (the one from last year), Girl At Her Volcano (available as an import only, sadly), & The Magazine. Flying Cowboys has its moments too, and if you dig covers projects as much as I do she has 2 MIGHTY ones, Pop Pop & It's Like This. Traffic From Paradise is a real bore - I don't care for it, and I like Ghostyhead a LOT but I wouldn't recommend it to someone who has only heard her debut. Her live releases are also fine, but it would be hard to fully appreciate them without having heard the studio versions I would think. Whichever way you go...happy "Rickie-ing", it'll be a fun ride. Bob NP: Darrol Anger & The American Fiddle Ensemble, "Help Me" (Paul Castle, were you the one who mentioned this one? Wow, it's as superb as I had hoped - it does for Help Me what Will Taylor did for Black Crow. Thanks for the tip!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:09:37 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: Dulcimer (medium Joni Content) Cat, When was the last time you heard Joni play the dulcimer in concert? Thirty years ago maybe? A new album? We should hope. But, she's also a grandmother too. And, I would like to see her play an active role in raising those kids (I'm sure she does anyway). It would not only help them, but fill a gap in her life that she denied herself almost forty years ago. And, I think, creatively she will come out the better for it. She has talked about a "Christmas" album, and also a country album. I feel that a true country album may be highly likely coming out of her with in the next year or two. Nashville could become a new home for her. This is my hope--I hope she starts playing small venues again (only occasionally). About Rickie, Gus had some good points. Rickie is probably sick about being compared to Joni. Musically, they don't have hardly anything in common. And, personally as an illustrator, I can't see how anyone could confuse the two of them by physical appearance. Yeah, they both have a lot of space between their nose and their upper lip. Joni has a "longer" face and higher cheek bones. I have heard some people say that Joni has "horsy" features (meaning long faced like a horse). I think this is a rather crude term. To me Joni is just flat beautiful! She reminds he of my mother who like Joni has, Scandinavian/Finnish/Hungarian high cheek boned features. My mother was 100% Hungarian (RIP), and if anyone knows indo-European ethnic history, the Hungarian and Finns are basically the same people. The Magyars (I thing that's how it's spelled--normally referred to as Huns) were a group of people that migrated from east of the Urals to Europe in 700 or 800 AD. A group of them settled in the Danube Valley (Hungary), but another group settled in Finland. Over the centuries the Finns and the Swedes interbred a lot (there are a lot of places in Finland where they speak Swedish). So, Joni may have this "Magyar" gene, which would explain her "melancholy-ness". Both Finns and Hungarians have been described as being a melancholy people (to put it mildly). And, Joni has the Irish blood too...watch out! Thank goodness I'm half Italian! Looks like I got off on a tangent. Jono ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:17:20 +0000 From: "robin mortlock" Subject: RE: dont interrupt the sorrow Sherelle wrote: , I see Joni as a waitress RObin writes: I see joni as a much stonger more celebrated figure in this song. The man is a little overwhelmed by the female presences (propeht witches, anima rising - a vengeful little goddess being a ref to herself) but is holding dear to his chauvanism. The "pad your purse" is a relenting of arrogance and the "mighty mighty thirst" being a way of equalising himself with the "liberation doll". Overall i see joni as compassionate to this man - a symbol of a crumbling patriarchy - and allows him to "chain" her with his kundalini serpent. The whole vibe i think is about a quest for balance from two opposing values - and is found by not "interrupting the sorrow, darn right." "We walked on the moon - so what?" is my favourite put down to that vainglorious all american hard-on of an ego. My other is (obviously) from DJRD - "Here in good old america, the home of the brave and the free, we are all hopelessly oppressed cowards, with some duality, restless multiplicity..." FANTASTIC and still COMPLETELY RELEVANT all these YEARS later........ DARN RIGHT!!!!! Yours hissingly, Robin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:41:37 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: free & fair elections - njc hi we also have an upcoming election here. fortunately theres no bush involved, but my general opinion of politicians means that i havent even bothered to register for it. today i mentioned this to one of the people i work with. he told me the following story as to why he wasnt bothering to vote. during our first "democratic" elections (everyone got screwed instead of just the blacks) he was one of the people employed to count the votes. during the count - - not one single international observer showed their face - not one single Independent Electoral Commission (the local impartial observers) member showed their face. & then the kicker - the ballot boxes arrived for counting. the boxes were cardboard, with a wax seal around the edge. at the top in the center was a small slot into which the ballot paper could be placed. - the ballot paper was a large sheet of paper around about the size of an A4 sheet - the slot was a whole lot smaller - during the voting, there were officials ensuring that each persons ballot paper was folded before they left the voting booth, & placed the folded ballot into the box. there was no way that an unfolded ballot would fit into the box through the slit. & when the ballot boxes were opened, what was found? half a dozen or so folded ballots, and a nice big neat pile of *unfolded* ballots. obviously placed in there *before* the ballot box was sealed. i know the guy well. i really dont think he was bullshitting................. as i said - democracy just means everyone gets screwed. (tho i guess its probably still a better prospect than most of the alternatives............) ron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:49:16 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Dulcimer (medium Joni Content) They have even been misidentified as each other in photographs. That must get tiresome for both of them. Rickie Lee's reaction to the question was not at all a put down of Joni, but to the question and comparison itself. And she was very Joni like in her reaction, which makes me think they are much more alike than different. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:02:03 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: both sides now hi ive just been browsing around looking for a site where i could get a copy of the arlenes cd ( i got a sampler with their track "lonely wont leave me alone" & it is an absolute beaut) i found it also appears on a album called "Both Sides Now - The Spirit of Americana" looks like BSN is becoming apart of american culture. ironically enough - the arlenes originate from camden :-) ron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:57:30 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Re: Bush stupid? NJC, now recurring Helen Reddy thread I remember that one, Bob. LOL! They also blew up Meryl Streep. Too bad Celine Dion wasn't around back then. Doug SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >**NP: I am Woman: The Essential Helen Reddy Collection > >LOL! Bryan, your NP reminds me of the Second City sketch where John Candy & >Joe Flaherty were the two guys who blew things up and then would say "he (or >she) blew up REAL good!". One episode had Catherine O'Hara as Helen Reddy, >singing 'I Am Woman', they blew her up once, the head was still singing "I AM >INVINCIBLE" and they had to blow it up again. I laughed so hard I wet 'em. I'm sure >this sounds pretty stupid to those who don't remember the comedy bit, but for >those who do you'll be smiling all day like me. > >Thanks for the reminder! > >Bob > >NP: Norah Jones > >. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:22:21 -0000 From: "amelio747" Subject: Re: Don't Interrupt the Sorrow Couldn't agree with you more Sharelle! I think "Don't Interrupt The Sorrow" is such a special song. I can't think of another song which makes the point so well. I feel the lyrics are among Joni's best - intelligent and powerful, and the music has such a nice groove to it which often reminds me of those really hot summer days when you can't feel the air... The line "since I was 17 I've had no one over me" always held special meaning too, coz that was when I first left home! Though I know it's meant like "I've been an independent woman since I was 17", it still makes me think of me! NP: Pancake - Tori (I now appreciate this song so much more) * * * * * * Stephen T "I get the urge for going But I never seem to go" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sherelle Smith" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:49 PM Subject: Don't Interrupt the Sorrow > Hi everyone! > > I'm finding myself wanting to hear HOSL (Hissing of Summer Lawns) over and > over again. I'm listening to "Don't Interrupt the Sorrow" now. I love this > song and everytime I hear it, I see Joni as a waitress waiting on a older, > very overbearing and sexist man. I especially feel that when she sings, > "Bring that bottle (kindly?) and I'll pad your purse (tip)...I've got a head > full of quandry and a mighty, mighty, mighty thirst". When I was a waitress > once, I had to endure that leering type of behavior from men who viewed > women as trophies. I've had more experiences like that than I care to > remember. I'm just very happy that I never lost faith in the goodness of men > and their good qualities. Even though I can't put it into words, I > understand completely what Joni is trying to say in this song. > > Sherelle > > _________________________________________________________________ > One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page  download MSN Toolbar now! > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:36:16 -0000 From: "amelio747" Subject: Re: John Guerin and Joni photo Thanks for that Janine, I think they are all really nice photos. Shame about the snidely review! Lynn Kellerman also has all of Joni's album release years wrong - apparently BLUE was out in 1968! I guess she saw an advanced preview of 'Almost Famous'! ;) NP: Taxi Ride - Tori * * * * * * Stephen T "I get the urge for going But I never seem to go" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janine Sherman" To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:10 AM Subject: John Guerin and Joni photo > Clear DayPoking around the '75-'76 jmdl library articles, I found an exquisite > photo of the unfortunately recently deceased John Guerin and Joni (with her > kitty) I have never seen before. > I guess it was taken before her hejira and "His sad request of her to kindly > stay away" (Amelia) and when she tells him to lay down his sneaking round the > town And she'll lay down the highway (Blue Hotel Room) Her hair style alludes > to the Miles of Aisles era. All pure conjecture. > A Hiss of Recognition > by Lynn Kellerman > Music Gig March 1976 http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=112 > > Anxious for her memoirs, > Janine > > NP: Talk to Me, Joni ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:44:11 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: rickie lee jones and Joni I think if you had seen the interview last week you might agree that Rickie was less than reverent when they asked her if she was anything like Joni. She sort of sighed (or something) and said something like "don't compare me to her." (not her exact words). Perhaps someone could get the transcript. But still, it was the *way she said it. I found it rather unkind. Perhaps she didn't mean anything regarding Joni. Perhaps she was just frustrated at being compared to anyone. Yet, if one had any respect for Joni, I feel one wouldn't respond the way that she did. Just my opinion. (which is a damn good one, by the way ; - - ) You'd have to see the interview and then you may understand. I understand Rickie is a singer/songwriter in her own right. . but Rickie's statement, *to me*, just didn't show respect/ reverence to Joni. I would have like to think that Joni would have shown more respect to Rickie. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:51:03 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: bow down Gus, It was a joke. Marianne >Also, to suggest that she "bow down" to Joni is utterly ridiculous and >more than a little insulting. The are both great singers and >songwriters. Mutual admiration and respect would be more appropriate, >as is probably the case. >Gus Mozart _________________________________________________________________ Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as $29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:56:24 -0000 From: "amelio747" Subject: Re: Desert island Discs SJC - (that was kinda' obvious I guess) Ooh ooh let me... Spark - Tori Amos Lady-O - Judee Sill Cactus Tree (live) - Joni Sweet Blindness - Laura Nyro Out Of Range (live) - Ani Difranco Enchanted Sky Machines - Judee Sill Harry's House/Centerpiece - Joni Marlene On The Wall - Suzanne Vega ..no way 8 is so not enough! NP: Crayon Angels - Judee Sill (this one could have so easily gone in too) * * * * * * Stephen T "I get the urge for going But I never seem to go" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garret" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:51 AM Subject: Desert island Discs > I think it has been a while since we did desert island discs? Or maybe i just > missed it if was recent:-) So, i'm either starting a new thread or replying > very late to an old one! > > Here are the eight tracks i would take were i sent to a desert island today: > > Joan Armadtrading- Willow > Nina Simone- Cherish > Joni Mitchell- Paprika Plains (of course, they couldn't play this one in its > entirety on the radio show, so maybe i'd settle for JOTMAS) > Sinead o Connor- Scorn Not His Simplicity > Dolly Parton- Nine to Five > Patti Smith- Land (again, too long and would be equally happpy with We Three or > Free Money) > REM- Hope > Damian Rice- Delicate, no Amie, no.. Delicate;-) > > > Give me an hour and that list will change, of course, and would probably include > Janet, Rufus, Janis.... > > My luxury item would be an exercise bike and a set of dumbbells (well, i'd be > bored so why not?) > And my book would either be Complete Shakespeare of LOTR i reckon. > GARRET > > np- Nina Simone, Another Spring > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:58:10 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: [none] >Referring to Bush as an "ugly man.. . . ." >I think Joni would find a more symbolic and interesting way >to speak of this creature. >>I beg to differ on this point as well. >>I had listened to this song several times, >>and had no idea it was about George W. until I read >>an article about the album that revealed this fact. >>When you know who the subject is, the lyrics take on >>a different meaning. Who cares about symbolism? I do. One thing I treasure about Joni is her metaphor and symbolism. _________________________________________________________________ Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar  includes FREE pop-up blocking! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:03:27 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: rickie lee jones and Joni If everyone is referring to the interview on CBS This Morning I did see it. Her response to the male interviewer was that the question was sexist. "Why compare us? Because we are both blond and smart.?" I thought her reaction was right on. Jerry > I think if you had seen the interview last week you might agree that Rickie > was less than reverent when they asked her if she was anything like Joni. > > She sort of sighed (or something) and said something like "don't compare me > to her." (not her exact words). > > Perhaps someone could get the transcript. But still, it was the *way she > said it. I found it rather unkind. Perhaps she didn't mean anything > regarding Joni. Perhaps she was just frustrated at being compared to > anyone. > > Yet, if one had any respect for Joni, I feel one wouldn't respond the way > that she did. Just my opinion. (which is a damn good one, by the way ; > - ) > > You'd have to see the interview and then you may understand. > > I understand Rickie is a singer/songwriter in her own right. . but Rickie's > statement, *to me*, just didn't show respect/ reverence to Joni. > > I would have like to think that Joni would have shown more respect to > Rickie. > > Marianne > > _________________________________________________________________ > Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech > Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:40:11 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: rickie lee jones and Joni marianne, joni was never very kind to rickie. there's that famous letter joni wrote to a magazine about rickie and then what she said in the interview for musician's magazine. i will look for the interview on jmdl.com. joni said things like "maybe she (rickie) wants to kill momma... she reminds me of a neighbor that would chase after me with a hatchet when i was a child because i rode my bicycle on her sidewalk..." all that rickie had said was that she didn't think that "joni walked on the jazz side of the street". (note to catgirl: rickie was not literally talking about a street that had jazz side. rickie was using was something known as a metaphor.) i think that rickie's opinion was quite harmless. she didn't say she thought joni was full of shit or anything. she spoke about joni as a jazz musician. rickie IS a jazz musician and when she was asked about joni she chose to put her opinion that way. maybe she knew what she was talking about. joni was indignant. she wrote a letter (to the nyt's? i can't remember) and was kind of abusive. and then she spoke about it again in musician's mag. over the years, joni has always been very rude and even cruel when she referred to other musicians. some of them are excellent artists: suzanne vega, for example. she dissed everyone, except for mozart, schubert, nyro, billie holiday and edith piaff -- all of whom she considered her "peers". she even referred to other musicians as the "salieris" needed to recognize her "mozart". if rickie or suzanne or madonna didn't say, i will say it: i think joni mitchell is full of shit. she's a genius, she changed my life, she created some of the most enduring art in history, but she is FOS, from head to toes. wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Jerry > Notaro > Enviado el: Jueves, 11 de Marzo de 2004 05:03 p.m. > Para: Marianne Rizzo; Joni List > Asunto: Re: rickie lee jones and Joni > > > > I would have like to think that Joni would have shown more respect to > > Rickie. > > > > Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:03:09 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: rickie lee jones and Joni Thanks Wally, for putting everything in the right perspective... Victor, excited about the Rush 30th Anniversary Tour coming to Atlanta, Aug 1st! > she even referred to other musicians as the "salieris" needed to recognize > her "mozart". if rickie or suzanne or madonna didn't say, i will say it: i > think joni mitchell is full of shit. she's a genius, she changed my life, > she created some of the most enduring art in history, but she is FOS, from > head to toes. > wally ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:09:29 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: rickie lee jones and Joni Wow, Wally, I don't agree with you in that (just for forwarding this, in its entirety, to aol non-mac users): Emiliano - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Wally Kairuz" Para: "Jerry Notaro" ; "Marianne Rizzo" ; "Joni List" Enviado: jueves, 11 de marzo de 2004 21:40 Asunto: RE: rickie lee jones and Joni > marianne, > joni was never very kind to rickie. there's that famous letter joni wrote to > a magazine about rickie and then what she said in the interview for > musician's magazine. i will look for the interview on jmdl.com. > joni said things like "maybe she (rickie) wants to kill momma... she reminds > me of a neighbor that would chase after me with a hatchet when i was a child > because i rode my bicycle on her sidewalk..." > all that rickie had said was that she didn't think that "joni walked on the > jazz side of the street". (note to catgirl: rickie was not literally talking > about a street that had jazz side. rickie was using was something known as a > metaphor.) i think that rickie's opinion was quite harmless. she didn't say > she thought joni was full of shit or anything. she spoke about joni as a > jazz musician. rickie IS a jazz musician and when she was asked about joni > she chose to put her opinion that way. maybe she knew what she was talking > about. > joni was indignant. she wrote a letter (to the nyt's? i can't remember) and > was kind of abusive. and then she spoke about it again in musician's mag. > over the years, joni has always been very rude and even cruel when she > referred to other musicians. some of them are excellent artists: suzanne > vega, for example. she dissed everyone, except for mozart, schubert, nyro, > billie holiday and edith piaff -- all of whom she considered her "peers". > she even referred to other musicians as the "salieris" needed to recognize > her "mozart". if rickie or suzanne or madonna didn't say, i will say it: i > think joni mitchell is full of shit. she's a genius, she changed my life, > she created some of the most enduring art in history, but she is FOS, from > head to toes. > wally > > > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Jerry > > Notaro > > Enviado el: Jueves, 11 de Marzo de 2004 05:03 p.m. > > Para: Marianne Rizzo; Joni List > > Asunto: Re: rickie lee jones and Joni > > > > > > > I would have like to think that Joni would have shown more respect to > > > Rickie. > > > > > > Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:35:33 EST From: Chorando6@aol.com Subject: Leonard cohen (NJC) Calling all uk jmidlers, I've just got the Brighton festival brochure through and theres a couple of things that may be of interest to all of you/ some of you/ a couple of you/ one of you / none of you. First off there's an Evening of Leonard Cohens' songs featuring Laurie Anderson, Nick Cave, The Handsome Family, The McGarrigle sisters, Linda and Teddy Thompson and Rufus and Martha Wainwright and Leonards original Backing singers! Theres also Eddie Reader performing Burns songs from her last album and her own favourites. I saw her a couple of years ago in burgess hill and she blew me away. A voice you have to hear live, as wonderful as it is on disc, live blows it out of the water. For more info go to www.brighton-festival.org.uk. Its a good festival all in all and worth a butchers. xx Clive ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:15:38 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: rlj sjc Catgirl wrote: > she is the only female musician I know that plays guitar, piano, dulcimer and wirtes almost all of her own music. I agree with you, although I'm not sure if you can really say this in the present tense; it's been years since she played guitar or wrote a song (as far as we know) and decades since she put a dulcimer or piano track on one of her albums. jlobello wrote: > But, then again, I'd > also like to see Joni be invited to appear on Mariam McPartland's Piano Jazz > show (will it ever happen? I doubt it!). Besides the above, and as much as I love Joni's piano playing, she is simply not a good enough player to keep up with Ms. McPartland. The usual format of "Piano Jazz" is to trade off backing each other up on songs, and Joni could never do it. jlobello wrote: > She has talked about a "Christmas" album, and also a country album. She has mentioned the Xmas album a couple of times (please, God, no!), I don't recall her saying she wanted to do a country album (God, while you're at it...). Country singers are typically pretty powerful voices. She'd be better off doing a Joni Mitchell album...but hey Joni, do whatever you want, you've earned it. Wally Kairuz wrote: > joni was indignant. she wrote a letter (to the nyt's? i can't remember) and > was kind of abusive. and then she spoke about it again in musician's mag. > over the years, joni has always been very rude and even cruel when she > referred to other musicians. some of them are excellent artists: suzanne > vega, for example. she dissed everyone, except for mozart, schubert, nyro, > billie holiday and edith piaff -- all of whom she considered her "peers". It's interesting that she has dissed some excellent artists, but has gone on the record as LIKING Journey and Aerosmith; exactly the kind of pop pap she is always harping about! There's no accounting for taste. If she's FOS for that, I'm probably FOS for buying that first Spice Girls album! I believe the letter you are referring to that started the whole Joni/Rickie feud was also in Musician magazine. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:42:35 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: YESTERDAY, njc now Noel, I'm glad to hear that you made it back to the fold. Road trips sure can be cathartic. I love 'em. Ask around. When you get out there, someway around 1/2 way, there's a space of quiet reflection set up. I think it's what philosopher's call a "ritualized space". For some people they get to that space on a bar stool. If it worked for me, I'd probably be on the bar stool all the time. Writing works for me but I'm glad you found a niche, a break. I have no advice but to say, "Stay close to what feels healthy, rather than on what feels good." All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu You said,>joni mitchell is even more incredible than i have been able to verbalize in the past. i understand we all have different opinions and likes and that is cool. when ones heart, eyes, mind, soul are open, really open, the truth of joni's simple, complicated, indescribable being, the greatness of what she has brought to existence is irrefutable. thank you my friends for listening. Thank you dear Joni for you.> np: After listening to "Babylon" by Bryan Thomas today, I borrowed Lauryn Hill's "The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill", thanks to a co-worker. New music. Life is good. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:54:39 -0500 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Re: John Guerin and Joni photo Hi Janine, Thanks a lot or posting the link to this article. Quite a lyrical piece of writing... http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=112 I had never seen any of these photos. I especially enjoyed the photo of Joni at the piano - as rare as hen's teeth, as one JMDLer put it, a few years ago! Michael in Quebec ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:53:57 -0800 (PST) From: Catgirl Subject: Joni on the dulcimer Jono asked.... Cat,When was the last time you heard Joni play the dulcimer in concert? Thirtyyears ago maybe? I saw her in 1979 at the Mann Music Center and yes she played the dulcimer. I saw her again in 1883, once at the Mann Music Center (near Philly, PA) and once at the Merriweather (near Washington DC) and both times she did play the dulicmer sooo, it has only been 20 years that she has played that baby out on the town. Now I do not know if she had toured again with her dulcimer but I have seen her play it live and it was very cool. I remember crying! Debi **************************** It's all a dream, She has awoke... **************************** Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:53:06 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Recurring Bryan Thomas thread, njc I guess if I had to declare, and I do I was playing Bryan's new disc for the first time today, at work with the most excellent Sennheiser 680 headphones. I laughed out loud when I discovered the Joni Content. I won't spoil it for anyone though. It will come as no surprise to Yael or Catherine (my roadtrip buddies) that I think he's done it again. The songs are solid and he's worked up some interesting photos this time around too. Like the stories, some of the visuals are uhh.. disturbing but that's part of the Mythology by now. He even worked his previous CD cover art in there. Go man, go. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:31:29 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: rickie lee jones and Joni --- Marianne Rizzo wrote: > > I understand Rickie is a singer/songwriter in her > own right. . but Rickie's > statement, *to me*, just didn't show respect/ > reverence to Joni. > > I would have like to think that Joni would have > shown more respect to > Rickie. I shudder to think what Joni might say if someone compared HER to Rickie Lee. Joni doesn't like being compared to anyone - for that matter, who does? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:19:33 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: rlj sjc and so am i, randy. i still listen to the carpenters for god's sake. what i meant was that joni has embarked upon this crusade that sounds totally absurd to me. she KNOWS who and what she is. why does she constantly have to attack other people that never did anything to her? madonna, david letterman, suzanne vega, rickie. how can a person be so talented and at the same time have such an inferiority complex? i used to love reading joni interviews. i learned so much, i could almost hear her voice. now all i see is this cheerless, dour person always demanding more and more from a public that has given her EVERYTHING. what have we been doing here all these years? we've created a community around her, devoted a part of our lives to studying her music and her poetry, flown from one continent to another to celebrate her and her art. i feel she owes ME more than i owe her, to be frank. she has been INCREDIBLY lucky. for all her complaining about the music industry, she's famous and very rich. she had love and she could even recover her lost daughter. where does all this bitterness come from? i have had joni in my life for 30 years. and i am perfectly aware that this is the JMDL and that i have been here from almost its beginnings. hey, if that doesn't give me the right to have an opinion, what does? wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Randy > Remote > Enviado el: Jueves, 11 de Marzo de 2004 09:16 p.m. > Para: joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: rlj sjc > > > pop pap she is always harping about! There's no accounting for taste. > If she's FOS for that, I'm probably FOS for buying that first Spice > Girls album! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:15:36 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni: Our Lady Of Duality, a link to an essay Yo, It's been a long while since I posted this link. After the "Both Sides Now" tour, I wrote about the fact that Joni's been constantly evolving. It was timely because some listeners went to the BSN tour expecting Joni to come out and do the hits with an orchestra. Amazingly, they expected to see her play the dulcimer and sing "California" in her soprano voice just like she did when they were college kids. Anyway, I kinda went "off" about expression and growth in an essay called "Our Lady Of Duality". http://www.jonimitchell.com/Duality.html With apologies to everyone who's tired of hearing me cover old ground I remain, Jim L'Hommedieu np: "NIGHT" by John Abercrombie (guitar) with Jan Hammer on keys, Jack DeJohnette on drums, and Mike Brecker (hey!) on tenor sax. They kinda pick up where Monk left off. It is on the ECM label, promo vinyl: $3. Can I get a amen? I can't wait to hear it on the replacement amp which is only one day away from closing on ebay. "It's just a shout away. It's just a shout away. I tell ya / la-ah-uv / sista-ah-uh / it's just a kiss away / it's just a kiss away." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:24:25 -0500 From: "Janine Sherman" Subject: Re: John Guerin and Joni photo ----- Original Message ----- From: michael o'malley To: sherman@netrax.net Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:54 PM Subject: Re: John Guerin and Joni photo Hi Janine, Thanks a lot for posting the link to this article. Quite a lyrical piece of writing... http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=112 I had never seen any of these photos. I especially enjoyed the photo of Joni at the piano - as rare as hen's teeth, as one JMDLer put it, a few years ago! Michael in Quebec Michael, So glad you enjoyed it. Another absolutely gorgeous photo of Joni I had not seen before is in this other 1976 article. http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=111 Very charming ending paragraph: Her boyfriend John Guerin (who plays drums in Tom Scott's band) appears and lovingly puts an arm around Joni, leading her away. "Enough talk" he says, "you promised me a 'rematch' game of backgammon! Then we'll have a nice cozy dinner before I let you go back to the studio." He winks at me. "She is so independent that she sometimes likes a strong hand." Joni says nothing, cuddles up to him and smiles. She is still smiling as they sit down at the backgammon table in front of the French window in the living room and John makes the first cast of the die. She appears so simply stunningly fresh- faced and in love and happy on the cover of that magazine wearing Soft Shades of Green and Delicate Layers. by Dagmar Music Gig March 1976 Plus we find out the name of the cat in the other photo with John and her! a boxing cat????? so Joni. It gives me a peaceful feeling to read of and see Joni at such a seemingly content period in her life and career. All the best, Janine NP: Shadows and Light: Joni LIVE 1976 Spectrum Just a few of her adlibs from this set....... mesmerizing BOB, I can't stop spinning this concert. I am reliving this 1976 year of hers. and all this even before her HEJIRA cross country. Mythical devil of the ever-present laws Givin' us our usual blindness and our occasional insight" Man who makes these laws, man who breaks these laws wrong and right, courts and lawyers, wrong and right society is wrong and right religion's wrong and right cultural wrong and right friends that are wrong and right neighborhoods that are wrong and right and the old code that is wrong and right everybody's got their own wrong and right natural laws wrong and right long way from natural wrong and right wrong and right ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:38:47 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: rlj sjc Hey Wally, Joni might just be as FOS as anyone else. I'd still like her because that means she is just a flawed human like anyone else and not a "goddess." When I've read the interviews of her seeming to being less than gracious to her contemporaries, I've usually gotten the feeling that she was somehow set up a bit and then the writer took choice, colorful and controversial quotes out of context for the final draft. Happens all the time, not just in the press but in my line of work and in everyday interactions. There is usually an agenda involved. The diva bitch angle sells in some quarters. Where Joni may be at fault is to keep falling for the bait each time and in not learning how to head if off at the pass. Then again, maybe it is really how she is and she is bitter (but I find that hard to totally embrace when I look at her in total). Or maybe it could be like something a wise guy friend once told me in a completely different context: "she doesn't know how to handle her celebrity." Maybe that's it - she stumbles along making gaffes, unaware of her impact on everyone reading. Well, at least she doesn't try to be slick and insincere and politically correct! ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 02:09:53 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: March 12 On March 12 the following articles were published: 1967: "Interview with Ed Sciaky" - WMMR (Interview - Audio Transcription) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=607 1986: "Soundtakes" - Christian Science Monitor (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1102 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #106 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)