From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #104 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, March 10 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 104 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- re: Joni Mitchell's Reckless and Shapeless "Daughter" Rolling Stone Review (1978) [cul ] (NJC) Oppose the Federal Marriage Amendment ["Lori Fye" ] RE: embarrassing falsetto moments njc now ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc [Randy Remote ] Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc ["hell" ] Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc ["rflynn@frontiernet.net" <] Joni Videos [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc [Randy Remote ] David Crosby take responsibility - njc [vince ] FW: HH: David Crosby Joke (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: falsetto njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: falsetto - The previous was uncomplete, as usual... ["Caio Nehring" <] Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc ["Kakki" ] Today's Library Links: March 10 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] RE: falsetto ["Marian Russell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 03:24:13 -0500 From: cul Subject: re: Joni Mitchell's Reckless and Shapeless "Daughter" Rolling Stone Review (1978) Back then : GRRRRRRRRR... Now : tch tch I clearly remember that review Les just posted. It incenced me then and it irks me now, although today I feel more pity *for* her than rage *at* her. I wrote a long long long letter to the author, Janet Maslin, refuting her positions and explaining to her that she was incapable of discerning what Mitchell was doing and if that review was any indication of her skills as a music critic, she would do well to stop projecting her own faults on to others. Its amazing how completely off the mark and how revealing of the critics ignorance a review can be. To describe the lyrics of "Hissing of Summer Lawns" as "failed social commentary" or "Hejira" as "rambling, hypnotic flights of fancy" is just stunning in its errancy. Her comment that "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter is that it is an instructive failure" is true, but only in the sense that the failure is that of the critic to appreciate what the album was about and her inability to rein in her own need to appear personally and intellectual superior. As it was, and is, the entire article amounts to nothing more than misconstruction and "sophomore jive"...as in "from victims of typewriters, the band sounds like typewriters". I wonder what she would think of her review today? cul np the sound of coffee gurgling into the pot desperately waiting to be savored by my highly critical tongue ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 01:03:18 -0800 From: Fae_Hamilton@notes.rlg.org Subject: Fae Hamilton/RLG is out of the office until Oct. 13, 2003 I will be out of the office starting 03/09/2004 and will not return until 03/15/2004. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 06:42:12 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc --- Kakki wrote: > I found more info from an article at E online here: > http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,13646,00.htm > > "The rotund rocker was charged with unlawful > possession of marijuana and > criminal possession of a weapon--the latter, a > third-degree felony that > could potentially net him up to seven years in > prison if convicted, > according to Manhattan District Attorney spokeswoman > Barbara Thompson." > Not looking good. Geez. > Why is this guy be going around with a gun? Hasn't he been there before? Doesn't he learn? Geez is right. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 06:41:14 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: World Cafe - Joni 1994 Interview Replay/Nellie McKay Thursday Thought this might be of interest to you all: David Dye welcomes Nellie McKay to the World Cafi on Thursday at 2. We continue to expose a new generation of singer songwriters on this special Women's History Month series. This edition of the show features the much-acclaimed Nellie McKay whose music draws from both cabaret and rap, sometimes even in the same song! We'll hear a live performance of songs from her debut album, "Get Away From Me." Plus, we revisit our 1994 interview with the incomparable Joni Mitchell. As always, we've got some great tunes from your favorite World Cafi artists. http://www.worldcafe.org/comingup.php Best, Gary ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:19:19 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc In a message dated 3/9/04 6:47:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: > Why is this guy be going around with a gun? Hasn't he > been there before? Doesn't he learn? Geez is right. > and why the hell did he leave the bag there.....duh?!? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:15:45 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: it's an honor Rickie (being compared to Joni) I could see how Rickie could be compared to Joni. . .they both have the same prototype and they both seem to go their own way and don't folow the traditional music industry channels. . . ie. more independent types. . I lost favor for Rickie when I saw this interview. . . when she responded to this question. . . (being compared to Joni). I don't know all that much about Rickie but , I found her response to be less than gracious. . . In my eyes, I would have liked to her to say, "It is an HONOR to be compared to Joni Mitchell, although in many ways we are different." And then I would have liked her to . . . . GET UP AND F*CKING BOW DOWN! It is an Honor Rickie, an Honor!!! Does she realize what an honor this is? Okay, I understand that she doesn't want to be compartmentalized or to be compared to women only. . . but this comparison. . .was one that, I feel she could have handled with reverence and grace. . . It was *Joni Mitchell* you were being compared to Rickie! Joni Mitchell ! And THEN I thought, . . . Rickie doesn't enough compare to Joni. . especially when I heard the first few lines of her song "Ugly Man." It is a song she wrote about "president Bush." Referring to Bush as an "ugly man.. . . ." and even though he is the worst president in my life time, I think Joni would find a more symbolic and interesting way to speak of this creature. XO Marianne >Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:20:46 EST >From: KJHSF@aol.com >Subject: Re: Don't compare Rickie to Joni... >I caught this interview as well, and thanks to whichever lister alerted us >to this broadcast! >About her comparison to Joni, Rickie asked: "why? because we're both >SMART? because we're both blonde? ...it's not about whether I like or >dislike her music...it's sexist...etc." >I thought Rickie was very careful not to engage in sniping against Joni. >In another interview, when asked about Sheryl Crow, RIckie had responded, >"I don't discuss Sheryl Crow." end of discussion. >I think Joni hit the nail on the head with the comparisons with Rickie. >Both blonde, beret wearing and facially similar (the long space between the >upper .lip and the nose) >ken _________________________________________________________________ Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time Offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:47:59 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: RE: falsetto My understanding is that the passaggio for altos is generally higher than for sopranos - they can stay in chest voice longer. From my experience as a first (very high) soprano singing along to joni here's what i've come to think about what her voice type is: She has (had) a beautiful clear head voice - soaring along on those high notes with great ease (like at the end of California). She also has a wonderful warm chest and mix (of head and chest) voice. Her 'click' or break point is higher than mine (i'm a typical soprano - with a huge break or hole in my voice around E or F on most days). I'm thinking of 'That Song about the Midway' - still early in her career, but it's low in her range, but warm and gorgeous. On her break point: I think Joni made a choice to exaggerate her passaggio (e.g., "I deal in dream-mers and telephone screamers...") You could say she was turning a weakness into a strength maybe, but she never oversused it (unlike a lot of current singer/songwriters). The transition between her chest and mix voice is very smooth though, as compared to say Dar Williams who has a very distinct break between her chest and mix/head voice. In conclusion, I'd call Joni's voice type: uncategorizable. Isn't that just like her! But if you held a gun to my head, I'd say mezzo-soprano - with a (once) huge range and a great tone and timbre in both her head (with the exception of LOTC) and chest/mix voice. jenny Marian Russell wrote: - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Wally Kairuz" Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:31:02 -0300 >oh that's the PASSAGGIO, the "click point" that cul mentioned. it >occurs approx. between B-flat and F-sharp in the head voice range. It actually occurs at different points for the different voices. For a soprano, I think the "click point" is somewhere around E to F above middle C. For an alto, it's lower - like around C to D-flat. I don't know what the points are for tenor and bass. I think in order to find out for sure whether or not Joni is a soprano we would need to determine her "click point". Maybe there is a way to do that without meeting with her personally. Marian Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 11:17:21 -0500 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: (NJC) Oppose the Federal Marriage Amendment I don't know if this has been posted here yet (and if it has, I apologize), but I thought I'd do my part ... Dear Friends, I have just read and signed the petition, "Oppose the Federal Marriage Amendment." Please help by signing this petition. It takes 30 seconds and will really help. Please follow this link: http://www.thePetitionSite.com/takeaction/645382377 Once you have signed, help even more, by telling your friends and family to sign as well! Thank you, Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:01:18 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: Re:Re: Harry's House and Hissing All, Referring to below (Bob and Kakki). You know I think that certain performers just naturally resonate to certain individuals. Joni is one of those to me. With Hissing and Hejira, I liked those records right off. Sure, I had to listen to them a few time to get part of what she was trying to say (and I'm still listening and learning). My friends at the time were, for the most part negative about these two lps. They had expected something similar to Court and Spark, but didn't realize that Joni had to keep evolving. My main sin as far as I'm concern (and I feel quite guilty about it) is to let her slip from my life from 1978 to 1988 (with the exception of seeing her live in 1979). Getting back to my original ascertion, I like certain recording artist. CSN (and Y) and all of them individually. Neil, even though he can be a jerk sometimes (so can I) stands out. JT and Jackson. Zappa!! I love his irreverence. Linda and Nicolette are also my faves. I don't have any Laura Nyro and Carol King but like them. Folk/Pop, Jazz, Blues and Reggae in that order as far as genre go. And, I like a few country artists (The Chicks, Johnny Cash). Rickie Lee Jones is someone who could possibly reach me, but her clipped vocal style puts me off. Sarah grates on me after about one song. Bluegrass and Old timie I can take or leave. The Chicks and Alison Krause (quite fantastic) are mainly bluegrass. About 15 years ago the only bands around here played Old Timie music and that got old real fast!!! Jono >Kakki: >Thanks for helping to assuage my guilt/pain re not getting Hissing (and everything later) at first. Repeating a few of your comments, then mine: K: " It didn't really appeal to me musically at the time (but I wore out an 8 track tape trying to like it). " BS: that's how I felt about my vinyl of Hejira. I quite early on Hissing. K: " I think it was the combination of Joni once again being ahead of her time and what we were actually hearing (invading our eardrums) on Top 40 radio at the time. " BS: I think more the former than the latter. Joni never really came close to having a #1 hit, but I loved everything through C&S anyway (though as I said recently, I got a bit nervous about Just Like This Train, Trouble Child and Twisted - harbingers of things to come.) K: " I looked up the top hits for 1975 and the contrast is indeed stark! Check someof it out here http://www.fullsizegm.com/hitsongs.html#anchor1544527 BS: Thanks for the lists of 1970's number 1 hits. Still, I was not blown away by the number 1 songs from the earlier years, either. In some cases, the number 1 hits tended to stay there longer until 74-75. Perhaps that is indicative of their superior quality, or perhpas a lack of serious competition. I cannot recall. I was already pretty much Joni-bound by then. Still, how painful that Ringo had 2 number 2 hits in that period (early 70's), not to mention all of the other pap. The poetic justice is that most of those others will not endure as time goes on (already do not). The sadness is that "greatness" - as commonly measured by attaining high levels over long periods of time - will (and has) come so much easier to those with the "pop hit" success, such as Elton John, the Beatles, Eagles, - heck, even my pal JT had a number one there (I watched his DVD again last night - fun, and very good IMO). K: "overall, coming off the Renaissance decade (1964-1974) of mostly incredible music, 1975 and a few years following was like being in a comparative wasteland." BS: I agree, and I also think that that has more to do with overall levels, not just the pop chart hits. Thanks again, Kakki. Bobsart< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:30:04 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: embarrassing falsetto moments njc now so do i, cath w > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Catherine McKay [mailto:anima_rising@yahoo.ca] > Enviado el: Lunes, 08 de Marzo de 2004 11:38 p.m. > Para: Wally Kairuz; cul; joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: embarrassing falsetto moments njc now > > I wish I lived in the same neighbourhood as both of > you. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 11:10:12 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: falsetto Marian Russell wrote: > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Wally Kairuz" > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:31:02 -0300 > > >oh that's the PASSAGGIO, the "click point" that cul mentioned. it > >occurs approx. between B-flat and F-sharp in the head voice range. > > It actually occurs at different points for the different voices. For a soprano, I think the "click point" is somewhere around E to F above middle C. For an alto, it's lower - like around C to D-flat. I don't know what the points are for tenor and bass. I think in order to find out for sure whether or not Joni is a soprano we would need to determine her "click point". Maybe there is a way to do that without meeting with her personally. You know on the LOTC version of Woodstock, she does that yodel thing at the end....is that her click point? If so, we can settle this controversy once and for all (maybe)! RR, who thinks Joni is a soprano, or was, even though she says she isn't (or wasn't). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 11:28:07 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc Kakki wrote: > I have also read many times that he doesn't touch anything any more. That's what I assumed. Did he specifically say that about pot? > I'm > hoping if it is his that he might have a prescription for it - maybe it > helps the effects of the other medicines he has to take. But then if he did > have it legally, why would he be charged? Having a prescription might help, but if he had a California prescription, it would not be good outside of the state, and the feds of the last two administrations have said they're illegitimate according to federal law. Catherine McKay wrote: > Why is this guy be going around with a gun? When he got caught with a handgun years ago, and they asked him that, his answer was two words: "John Lennon". The pot thing is about a stupid law-he is an adult, he wasn't driving, it's a victimless crime. The gun thing is more problematic-and NYC is no doubt a bit sensitive about weapons. If Crosby was that paranoid, and taking into account that just because you are paranoid, it doesn't mean that they're not out to get you, why didn't he just hire a bodyguard who is licensed to pack? He can afford it. I hope the judge can see that he wasn't hurting anyone and is in delicate physical condition, and give him community service. Free Tommy Chong, RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:56:34 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: newbie - NJC hi >>>>john g wrote >>>>>I've been a Mark Heard fan for many years and I'd have to say, over time it would be a good idea to get as much of his music as you can if you really want to get what he was trying to say to us all.<<<<<<< well, i finally got the first of the mark heard albums i ordered (ordered 27 jan, received 6 march ) i ordered. "ashes & light" got here on saturday, & i am thoroughly emjoying it!!! lyrically, hes very strong - he has great insights, (ie he seems to think quite similarly to me on a number of issues!!!) & a good way of expressing them. his melodies are just great too - seem to come at you from all directions, and just never stop. musically theres not really anything wonderfully new or exotic, but what he does, he does solid & well. only disappointments are the sound quality, and the total lack of any liner notes, musicians, etc. i seem to remember the cassettes i had back in the 80's had lyrics etc. would you have any idea : - who the musiciaqns are - who the back up singer is (she does a great job & sounds vaguely familiar) - if theres any place i can get hold of lyrics & chords - & what on earth is that line from straw man "pious anadonia" (well, thats what it sounds like!!! Ron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:21:43 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc RR wrote: > That's what I assumed. Did he specifically say that about pot? Yes, he has said that. There was a thread about pot on the CSN list some time ago (which got very heated, as I remember) and he said that although he no longer smoked it, he was happy to roll it for those that did (I won't mention names!), and "watch them get silly". > When he got caught with a handgun years ago, and they asked him > that, his answer was two words: "John Lennon". From my ever-increasingly failing memory, I also seem to recall a section of his autobiography mentioning that he was subject to a home invasion, and that he scared the intruders off with a gun. I don't think he fired it, but it was enough to get rid of them. I would suspect (given John Lennon's death, and the knife attack on George Harrison in later years) that that would be enough to make you more than a little paranoid. > The pot thing is about a stupid law-he is an adult, he wasn't driving, > it's a victimless crime. The gun thing is more problematic-and NYC > is no doubt a bit sensitive about weapons. If Crosby was that paranoid, > and taking into account that just because you are paranoid, it doesn't > mean that they're not out to get you, why didn't he just hire a bodyguard > who is licensed to pack? He can afford it. I hope the judge can see > that he wasn't hurting anyone and is in delicate physical condition, and > give him community service. Good question, but maybe he feels safer if he's the one carrying the weapon. Although leaving it at a hotel is not the most effective form of defense! Given that his bail was set fairly low ($3500), maybe the courts are already sympathetic? I guess we'll find out on May 19th when he's required to appear to answer the charges. Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a WHOLE NEW EXPERIENCE! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:28:28 -0500 From: "rflynn@frontiernet.net" Subject: Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc While marijuana may not have much of an effect on the liver, the fact that Crosby appears back on the road to substance abuse underscores the special treatment he's received as a celebrity. He waited only 18 days for his new liver. Ordinary folk like my late wife have died waiting for theirs. It's hard for me not to be judgmental in this instance. Quoting Randy Remote : > Kakki wrote: > > > I have also read many times that he doesn't touch anything any > more. > > That's what I assumed. Did he specifically say that about pot? > > > I'm > > hoping if it is his that he might have a prescription for it - > maybe it > > helps the effects of the other medicines he has to take. But then > if he did > > have it legally, why would he be charged? > > Having a prescription might help, but if he had a California > prescription, > it would not be good outside of the state, and the feds of the last > two > administrations have said they're illegitimate according to federal > law. > > Catherine McKay wrote: > > > Why is this guy be going around with a gun? > > When he got caught with a handgun years ago, and they asked him > that, his answer was two words: "John Lennon". > > The pot thing is about a stupid law-he is an adult, he wasn't > driving, > it's a victimless crime. The gun thing is more problematic-and NYC > is no doubt a bit sensitive about weapons. If Crosby was that > paranoid, > and taking into account that just because you are paranoid, it > doesn't > mean that they're not out to get you, why didn't he just hire a > bodyguard > who is licensed to pack? He can afford it. I hope the judge can see > that he wasn't hurting anyone and is in delicate physical condition, > and > give him community service. > Free Tommy Chong, > RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:19:52 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Joni Videos Ahmed asked: <> I am happy to make videos (NTSC format only) of the Joni tape trees and other things I have for blanks and postage or the money equivalent of same. If anyone is interested, please e-mail me privately for the list and instructions of how to get them. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 14:38:18 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc hell wrote: > but maybe he feels safer if he's the one carrying the weapon. > Although leaving it at a hotel is not the most effective form of defense! I guess you could infer that he smoked one before leaving the hotel... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:17:23 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc --- Randy Remote wrote: > > Catherine McKay wrote: > > > Why is this guy be going around with a gun? > > When he got caught with a handgun years ago, and > they asked him > that, his answer was two words: "John Lennon". Assuming he could have pulled his gun out and shot the other guy first, maybe, yeah. But still dumb. I don't give a sh*t about the pot - maybe it's an immuno-suppresant ;-) and it's probably cheaper than cyclosporin. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:24:08 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc --- "rflynn@frontiernet.net" wrote: > While marijuana may not have much of an effect on > the liver, the fact > that Crosby appears back on the road to substance > abuse underscores the > special treatment he's received as a celebrity. He > waited only 18 days > for his new liver. Ordinary folk like my late wife > have died waiting > for theirs. It's hard for me not to be judgmental > in this instance. Thank you for expressing what has been on my mind. I avoided this whole topic when it first came up because I didn't want to go there. I arguee with myself all the reasons why I *shouldn't* be judgmental about this, because it's all so "church lady". After all, and who knows, maybe the liver that came along at the right time for Mr. C. *just happened* to be a perfect match for him, and so it was all luck. But still, there lingers that whole doubt about celebrities getting preferential treatment, even when it comes to the gift of life. Not many get so lucky. Ironically, most organ donors lose their lives through trauma - they don't die of lingering diseases. It's entirely possible that Crosby got his liver from someone who died of a gunshot to the head. Doubly ironic, if so. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:06:03 -0500 From: Subject: Re: Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc I wonder if they charged him with the most severe possible charge, leaving room to plea bargain down? Maybe something "lesser" that would allow Mister Crosby to prove he's rehabilitated himself by... oh... maybe... performing some community service such as... helplessly hoping in Covington, Jim > "The rotund rocker was charged with unlawful possession of marijuana and > criminal possession of a weapon--the latter, a third-degree felony that > could potentially net him up to seven years in prison if convicted, > according to Manhattan District Attorney spokeswoman Barbara Thompson." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:29:09 -0500 From: vince Subject: David Crosby take responsibility - njc I know all about human weaknesses that one cannot overcome. I know because I have more my share. I know about those you love that you cannot help because they will not listen. I live with that daily. But after watching the Concert for George and seeing Dhani without a father, Olivia without a husband, and all of George's friends who cared so much and thinking about how young George was when he died, I am not caring so much for Cosby's plight right now. There is some point in which you decide to stop to being an over indulged asshole, pay your friends to take care of you, take some responsibility. or just pay the price. The line about "John Lennon" disgusts me. One person one time being shot does not allow for a life of dissipation. I wish I had 1% of the talent, opportunities, and life on top that Crosby has squandered. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:30:35 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: FW: HH: David Crosby Joke (njc) > At the CPR show at the Keswick Theater David acknowledged his previous nights > incarceration a few times. The funniest was when he was handed an acoustic > guitar and strummed it. It was clearly tuned in some bizarre Crosby-world > tuning and he made a face. He then said how strangely he tunes his guitars is > "one of my many crimes." > > Brought the house down. > > Bruce > > _______________________________________________ > human_highway mailing list > human_highway@bosco.net > http://www.human-highway.org/mailman/listinfo/human_highway Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:05:33 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc Randy wrote: > That's what I assumed. Did he specifically say that about pot? I've read the same stuff as Hell on the CSN list. However, here's some of his thoughts on pot from a recent interview http://crosbycpr.dreamhost.com/content/features/interviews/20030821_CROSBY1/crosby1.html > Having a prescription might help, but if he had a California prescription, > it would not be good outside of the state, and the feds of the last two > administrations have said they're illegitimate according to federal law. Last October the U.S. Supreme Court made a ruling that basically upholds state rights (see http://www.stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/307/conant.shtml and http://cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/14/scotus.medical.marijuana/index.html ) on the issue and medical marijuana is legal in CA. I would think it would be good outside the state as long as one has a prescription. Here's his thoughts on gun ownership http://crosbycpr.dreamhost.com/content/features/interviews/20031005_CROSBY3/crosby3.html I agree that the low bail may be a positive sign. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:14:45 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc --- Kakki wrote: > Here's his thoughts on gun ownership > http://crosbycpr.dreamhost.com/content/features/interviews/20031005_CROSBY3/crosby3.html ... and I quote: "The gun really is just a tool, its just like a power drill, it magnifies your effort and itll magnify your mistake just as fast as it will magnify the effort, but its really an inert piece of metal, it has no innate goodness or badness to it. The problem is in the operator." In other words (sing along, kids, you know this one): Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Gag me! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:55:00 -0300 From: "Caio Nehring" Subject: Re: falsetto Catherine McKay Thanks for your quote on me. You were the one who read me... After I read all those e-mails re: Falsetto, i think maybe i was full of sh*t when i wrote "exquisite falsettos" referring to some of Joni's high registers. It was just a way of referring to these excepcional high registers. The main thing is that all of you have understood what i tried to say/explain. I just a guitar player doin' instrumental music. When it comes to voice...and after all the damage cigarettes made to my "once interesting voice", i am a total disaster...There were times when i'd sing in falsetto to reach extremely high tones, higher than my voice could stand, know what i mean? Of course, today i can't even think of doing that...it's gone. Then...instrumental music... But anyway, i'm not a singer, i've never had singing lessons and i could even have been using the wrong expression to say what i wanted to say. I learned a lot about voice, sopranos, contraltos and falsetto reading yours, Wally Kairuz and Marian Russell's e-mails, they were really usefull. Thanx for all. Maybe i could not apply this to Joni's voice, or maybe through another view, i could. It seems to me now, that falsetto is something closer to Prince's (Da artist...) singing tricks and devices, like "faking" his voice to sound like a feminine voice, since it looks that falsetto it's more obvious in a man's voice. Thanks a lot. Caio pandora54@ig.com.br - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine McKay" Lately, > Ive read that Joni has always referred to > > herself as being an alto > > rather than a soprano. > > > > Now, I may be full of sh*t but a few weeks ago when > > our new Brazilian friend, > > Ciao, joined up, he referred to Jonis high register > > as a exquisite > > "falsetto". And, by god, I think that is what she > > employs (not consciously, > > mind you) to hit her high highs. All be its a very > > feminine falsetto, but a > > falsetto none the less. > > Joni has herself referred to her high voice as a "sort > of falsetto" (or her "helium" voice). Women can and do > sing falsetto, but it's not as obvious as when a man > does it. Sometimes it's called "head voice" (although > I think the term "head voice" doesn't necessarily > always mean falsetto.) My singing teacher suggested, > to get that particular falsetto, to try whining like a > very young puppy ;-) I'm not sure what the highest > note is that Joni can sing, but a lot of sopranos can > do F or F# above the C above middle-C without a > problem. I'm an alto and I can occasionally, if I have > to, hit the D about the C above middle-C or even an E, > but I don't feel at all comfortable there - it's like > being strangled (like, I've experienced that many > times). And the older we get, the more register we > lose. Smoking doesn't help, and Joni has had health > problems too, and she seems to prefer the sound of the > lower register in any case. > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:22:31 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: falsetto njc --- Caio Nehring wrote: > > When it comes to > voice...and after all the damage cigarettes made to > my "once interesting > voice", i am a total disaster...There were times > when i'd sing in falsetto > to reach extremely high tones, higher than my voice > could stand, know what i > mean? > Of course, today i can't even think of doing > that...it's gone. You could probably do some Jacques Brel numbers ;-) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 01:27:16 -0300 From: "Caio Nehring" Subject: Re: falsetto - The previous was uncomplete, as usual... Catherine McKay Thanks for your quote on me. You were the one who read me... After I read all those e-mails re: Falsetto, i think maybe i was the one full of sh*t when i wrote "exquisite falsettos" referring to some of Joni's high registers. It was just a way of referring to these excepcional high registers. The main thing is that all of you have understood what i tried to say/explain. I hope... I'm just a guitar player doin' instrumental music. When it comes to voice...and after all the damage cigarettes made to my "once interesting voice", i am a total disaster...There were times when i'd sing in falsetto to reach extremely high tones, higher than my voice could stand, know what i mean? Of course, today i can't even think of doing that...it's gone. Then...instrumental music... But anyway, i'm not a singer, i've never had singing lessons and i could even have been using the wrong expression to say what i wanted to say. I learned a lot about voice, sopranos, contraltos and falsetto reading yours, Wally Kairuz, Cul and Marian Russell's e-mails, they were really usefull. Thanx for all. Maybe i could not apply this to Joni's voice, or maybe through another view, i could. It seems to me now, that falsetto is something closer to Prince's (Da artist...) singing tricks and devices, like "faking" his voice to sound like a feminine voice, since it looks that falsetto it's more obvious in a man's voice. ps. In Brazil there is a famous singer, Ney Mattogrosso (a surname that means somethin' like Dense Forest, Thick Jungle), assumed gay. Well, if you close your eyes when he sings, you'll certainly say that a woman is singing. But if you talk to him, casually,he has a grave voice, a normal male voice. When he sings, he uses his falsetto voice. Is that correct? Thanks a lot. Caio pandora54@ig.com.br NP Joan Armatrading - Love and Affection - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine McKay" Lately, > Ive read that Joni has always referred to > > herself as being an alto > > rather than a soprano. > > > > Now, I may be full of sh*t but a few weeks ago when > > our new Brazilian friend, > > Ciao, joined up, he referred to Jonis high register > > as a exquisite > > "falsetto". And, by god, I think that is what she > > employs (not consciously, > > mind you) to hit her high highs. All be its a very > > feminine falsetto, but a > > falsetto none the less. > > Joni has herself referred to her high voice as a "sort > of falsetto" (or her "helium" voice). Women can and do > sing falsetto, but it's not as obvious as when a man > does it. Sometimes it's called "head voice" (although > I think the term "head voice" doesn't necessarily > always mean falsetto.) My singing teacher suggested, > to get that particular falsetto, to try whining like a > very young puppy ;-) I'm not sure what the highest > note is that Joni can sing, but a lot of sopranos can > do F or F# above the C above middle-C without a > problem. I'm an alto and I can occasionally, if I have > to, hit the D about the C above middle-C or even an E, > but I don't feel at all comfortable there - it's like > being strangled (like, I've experienced that many > times). And the older we get, the more register we > lose. Smoking doesn't help, and Joni has had health > problems too, and she seems to prefer the sound of the > lower register in any case. > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:30:04 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc I'm sorry to hear about Richard's wife. I would not necessarily assume Crosby got preferential treatment for the liver transplant simply because he was a celebrity. And the damage to his liver was not all because of substance abuse. He had Hepatitis C for 15 years, and diabetes for 10 years, before the transplant. In 1994 he was told that he was dying. He happened to have a neighbor who was the head of digestive diseases at UCLA Medical Center and that doctor checked him into UCLA and treated him. I'd like to think any advantage he had was more about having a good doctor friend at a top hospital that helped save his life. Part of me could be judgmental about him but another part of me considers that he has shown a lot of courage to be out there working hard and touring (and I think trying to stay clean) for the past ten years while living with an extremely precarious medical condition. He has to take a bunch of nasty immuno-suppresant medicine every day and a simple virus could take him down at any time. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:50:32 -0600 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Re: NJC Melissa Manchester Thanks Bob. Yea, I have already preordered this baby but didn't know about the gino connection. Damn, damn, damn. Can't wait. mack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:01:14 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: March 10 On March 10 the following articles were published: 1988: "Mitchell "Storms" Back" - Rolling Stone (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=305 1998: "Bob Dylan Tour In Jeopardy" - Live! Daily Website (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=167 2000: "Both Sides Now" - New Musical Express (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=466 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:54:00 -0800 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: RE: falsetto - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Jenny Goodspeed Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:47:59 -0800 (PST) >My understanding is that the passaggio for altos >is generally higher than for sopranos - they can >stay in chest voice longer. This makes a lot of sense (I wasn't sure about the alto passaggio location). I have always marveled at people who seem to be able to sing so easily through the E to F breakpoint that I have and have wondered how they could do that. I found some interesting links: http://www.vocalist.org/group/vocalist-temporary/message/1211.html http://www.vocalist.org.uk/passaggio.html http://www.scena.org/lsm/sm4-1/sm4-1VoiceDoc_en.htm It seems like the whole subject of determining one's voice type is a lot more complicated than just finding the passaggio points, although the points seem to one of the clues. >She also has a wonderful warm chest and mix (of head and chest) >voice. Her 'click' or break point is higher than mine (i'm a >typical soprano - with a huge break or hole in my voice around E >or F on most days). I'm thinking of 'That Song about the >Midway' - still early in her career, but it's low in her range, >but warm and gorgeous. So do you know what note it is that seems to be a passaggio for Joni? >But if you held a gun to my head, I'd say mezzo-soprano - with a >(once) huge range and a great tone and timbre in both her head >(with the exception of LOTC) and chest/mix voice. I also found some links with descriptions of various voice types: http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/9547/singing.html http://open-site.org/Arts/Music/Instruments/Human_Voice/ I think I would agree that her voice is more mezzo-soprano than alto or high soprano (I also didn't know before looking around that there are so many distinctions within the soprano category). I was listening to I Had A King and Night In The City on the way to work. She sings some pretty low notes in those songs, and in Night In The City she does a kind of yodel between "the City" and "looks pretty" which I guess is switching between chest and head. Does anyone know what Joni sang in the choir? Was she a soprano? Marian ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #104 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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