From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #102 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, March 9 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 102 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Harry's House and Hissing ["Kakki" ] Re: falsetto ["Marian Russell" ] : Re: southern speak, NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] njc George Harrison ["Kate Bennett" ] Jennifer Terran ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Harry's House and Hissing [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: All I Want - Joni's range [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: falsetto [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Harry's House, Hissing, and Hits [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Don't compare Rickie to Joni... ["kerry" ] Re: Don't compare Rickie to Joni... [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: Don't compare Rickie to Joni... NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Test(NJC) ["jlobello" ] embarrassing falsetto moments njc now ["Wally Kairuz" ] NJC Melissa Manchester [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: embarrassing falsetto moments njc now [cul ] RE: embarrassing falsetto moments njc now ["Wally Kairuz" ] Fw: embarrassing falsetto moments njc now (for aol, non-mac users) [Emili] Re: Newbie [Warrenkeith91354@aol.com] Newbie (bit NJC, mostly JC) ["Ahmed Shoukry" ] Re: Newbie NJC [Jerry Notaro ] 1) Joni at Oscar party pic & 2) Rickie Lee Jones' Joni snub ["J Harney" <] Re: 1) Joni at Oscar party pic & 2) Rickie Lee Jones' Joni snub [KJHSF@ao] Re: Mingus ["Caio Nehring" ] RE: Recurring David Crosby thread, njc ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Mingus [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, njc ["Kakki" ] Re: embarrassing falsetto moments njc now [Catherine McKay ] Recurring Jonatha Brooke thread, njc [] RE: falsetto ["Marian Russell" ] Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc ["Kakki" ] Today's Library Links: March 9 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc ["hell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 00:06:01 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Harry's House and Hissing Bob, While I may have got what Joni was doing with Hissing, it was only on an "art" level. It didn't really appeal to me musically at the time (but I wore out an 8 track tape trying to like it). It was similar to my first experience with DJRD (which in total took me two decades to decipher) except Hissing took years to appreciate musically. Hearing the stripped down Hissing demos caused me to finally fall in love with it. I think it was the combination of Joni once again being ahead of her time and what we were actually hearing (invading our eardrums) on Top 40 radio at the time. I looked up the top hits for 1975 and the contrast is indeed stark! Check some of it out here http://www.fullsizegm.com/hitsongs.html#anchor1544527 We're talking Mandy (Manilow), Laughter in the Rain (Sedaka); My Eyes Adored You (Frankie Valli); Love Will Keep Us Together (Captain and Tennille); That's The Way I Like It (KC & the Sunshine Band); Thanks God I'm a Country Boy (John Denver) Jive Talking (BeeGees) and Have You Never Been Mellow (Oliva Newton John) among other notables. (It almost brings me down to recall those titles ;-) I tried to remember back at what I favored back then out of the available offerings and some of them at least made the list, too - Linda Ronstadt, Doobie Brothers, Average White Band and Earth Wind & Fire. But overall, coming off the Renaissance decade (1964-1974) of mostly incredible music, 1975 and a few years following was like being in a comparative wasteland. I remember feeling when Steely Dan's Aja come out, that there was a breakthrough in the drought and hope again ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 00:38:44 -0800 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: falsetto I took some voice lessons for awhile. According the two voice teachers that I worked with, the definition of a soprano or an alto or a tenor or a bass has to do with where the voice breaks from the chest voice into the head voice. If you sing an ascending scale starting from the lowest note you can comfortably sing, as you go up, you will reach a place where you have to shift HOW you sing the notes in order to keep going up the scale. That's like the break point. One of the aspects of voice training is to teach you to move through the break point without anyone noticing. I think Joni is an alto, but I think all her singing while lying on her back in the hospital probably was great training to sing in a relaxed manner, plus during all the years of singing in the choir at the local church she probably learned a lot about how to sing properly. Altos can sing up to about E or F comfortably. True sopranos can go even higher than two octaves above middle C. What somebody should find out is what was the highest note she ever sang in her earlier songs. I would be surprised if she ever went above F#. Joni can sing extremely low. Check out her lowest notes in Impossible Dreamer. Marian NPIMH: Boticelli Black Boy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:58:09 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: : Re: southern speak, NJC Laura wrote, in response to Catherine " Dixie, eh? LOLLL If you ever come this way, I'll take you up into the Ozark Mountains where I guarantee you won't understand some of the people....." Lulu says... WEll I can guarantee that if you went to parts of Devon, East Anglia and Shropshire, you would encounter the UK versions of your Ozark mountainmen.. we do not have a north south divide in such a way here (athough the Northerners think we Southerners are soft, and we think they all wear clogs!!! hey you DO know I am joking dont you, those who live north of Watford) Britain as an island is only abuout 500 miles north to south and less than 300 miles along the bottom but we have a mix of accents that are amazing. Within Wales and Scotland and Northern Ireland the accents vary from one side of a street to another.. that is also true in our large cities..Liverpool particularly is one where the accent can point almost to a streetlamp where you have lived...... What people percieve as the archetypal British accent is not how we really speak. That accent (a la queen) is one that is a denoter of class strata, not of region..although you are likely to be living in the south..they hang people with that accent if you go out of London!!! I love hearing how people talk and its amazing if you have enough knowledge (i have scant little) just what you can pick up from the way people say things about where they have lived, or around whom they are living ... My mother was from Liverpool and yet she spoke very queenly English.. but she could do a scouse accent at the drop of a hat if she wanted to shock people!!! and she had left LIverpool at the age of 3 and lived in Bristol (That city really does have potential for OZARK comparison)....but you would never know that she had lived there. I think because she was totally against being able to be pinned to any sort of region she turned me into a mimic so that I can "DO" accents but that leaves me with, I think only obvious pointers that I am from England, the south but not from any particular part of the south, where as my daughter is definitely from Hampshire... But she can also DO accents.... Final thing on this monday morning....THE OZARK MOUNTAIN DAREDEVILS were a band I really liked and I have a couple of their LP's from years back.. did anyone on the list see them play anywhere? One song of theirs I have in a tape compilation I made and it makes me smile like no other if I am feeling really fed up.... So I suppose I must be more REALLY US Southern than might be possible to believe..Now that could take us onto a theme of "have you ever been somewhere and it feels like you really have come home even though you have never been there" I am not talking simple DEJA VU but real "Oh I know what is around this corner but I cant tell you until I see it" stuff... Been here before in another life maybe? Work day today but am at home all day for a change.. nice not to have to drive anywhere.. take care all Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 01:12:24 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: njc George Harrison I just watched this for the first time tonight in its entirety...it was a very emotional experience for me too...i can't think of another musician who was as beloved by all as george was...i loved the shots they took off to the side of all the drummers & percussionists going at once...so cool! Dhani seems like a beautiful soul... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:42:19 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Jennifer Terran Jennifer Terran is coming into town. Reviews are comparing her to Blue. She also shares the same engineer with SIQUOMB as on TI. I previewed her on cdbaby and I must admit the resemblance in the voice is striking. Does anybody know about her? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:47:23 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Harry's House and Hissing Kakki: Thanks for helping to assuage my guilt/pain re not getting Hissing (and everything later) at first. Repeating a few of your comments, then mine: K: " It didn't really appeal to me musically at the time (but I wore out an 8 track tape trying to like it). " BS: that's how I felt about my vinyl of Hejira. I quite early on Hissing. K: " I think it was the combination of Joni once again being ahead of her time and what we were actually hearing (invading our eardrums) on Top 40 radio at the time. " BS: I think more the former than the latter. Joni never really came close to having a #1 hit, but I loved everything through C&S anyway (though as I said recently, I got a bit nervous about Just Like This Train, Trouble Child and Twisted - harbingers of things to come.) K: " I looked up the top hits for 1975 and the contrast is indeed stark! Check someof it out here http://www.fullsizegm.com/hitsongs.html#anchor1544527 BS: Thanks for the lists of 1970's number 1 hits. Still, I was not blown away by the number 1 songs from the earlier years, either. In some cases, the number 1 hits tended to stay there longer until 74-75. Perhaps that is indicative of their superior quality, or perhpas a lack of serious competition. I cannot recall. I was already pretty much Joni-bound by then. Still, how painful that Ringo had 2 number 2 hits in that period (early 70's), not to mention all of the other pap. The poetic justice is that most of those others will not endure as time goes on (already do not). The sadness is that "greatness" - as commonly measured by attaining high levels over long periods of time - will (and has) come so much easier to those with the "pop hit" success, such as Elton John, the Beatles, Eagles, - heck, even my pal JT had a number one there (I watched his DVD again last night - fun, and very good IMO). K: "overall, coming off the Renaissance decade (1964-1974) of mostly incredible music, 1975 and a few years following was like being in a comparative wasteland." BS: I agree, and I also think that that has more to do with overall levels, not just the pop chart hits. Thanks again, Kakki. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:59:55 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: All I Want - Joni's range cul wrote: "It took me a week to follow her through phrases like "we don't need a piece of paper from the city hall keeping us tied and true, no..." when I first got the album." Great choice of example, Cul. Congratulations on getting it in a week (bet it took most of us longer) :-) Bobsart PS - I love watching Joni's live performances of that song - with the brilliant piano arrangement. She was really something. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:14:10 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: falsetto I don't read music so I can't talk theoretically about any of this, but I will say that I was VERY surprised when I heard STAS for the first time (which was in the late 90's) after having listened to Clouds, Blue, & LOTC for along time. Her voice seems so much lower in some of those earliest songs. I think her highest notes ever are in "California", although lyrically the song is very playful, from a melody standpoint it's loaded with landminesand is definitely not easy. At last year's Wall to Wall Joni it was sung by Sylvia McNair from the Met, so she could handle it with no problem, but the average singer steers clear of it - probably why there are only (2) released vocal covers of it as opposed to (67) River's and (45) A Case of You's. Bob NP: Steve Miller Band, "Fly Like An Eagle" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:23:58 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Harry's House, Hissing, and Hits Subject: Don't compare Rickie to Joni... I caught a nice feature about Rickie Lee Jones on "CBS This Morning" yesterday and there was a small "Joni moment." All the interviewer had to say was, "You've been compared to Joni Mitchell..." and Rickie reacted pretty strongly. She said that to make that comparison is sexist and discredits her. She also said something like, "What is it that is alike about us? We're both blonde?" (I do have to say that she did really look like Joni in this interview.) After her "tirade" she said with a grin, "Did you want to finish that question?" The man doing the interview was practically cowering in his chair by then! Kerry NPIMH: Ani Difranco - Educated Guess ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:20:46 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Don't compare Rickie to Joni... I caught this interview as well, and thanks to whichever lister alerted us to this broadcast! About her comparison to Joni, Rickie asked: "why? because we're both SMART? because we're both blonde? ...it's not about whether I like or dislike her music...it's sexist...etc." I thought Rickie was very careful not to engage in sniping against Joni. In another interview, when asked about Sheryl Crow, RIckie had responded, "I don't discuss Sheryl Crow." end of discussion. I think Joni hit the nail on the head with the comparisons with Rickie. Both blonde, beret wearing and facially similar (the long space between the upper lip and the nose) ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:31:45 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Don't compare Rickie to Joni... NJC It's always seemed to me that the obvious comparison to RLJ was Laura Nyro anyway, beret notwithstanding. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:05:22 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: Test(NJC) OK, I took that stupid test and here's the score: 44% (Yankee). Barely into the Yankee category. I don't understand the scoring--most of my answers put me in the upper Great Lakes and the western catagory. Jono ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:15:11 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: embarrassing falsetto moments njc now cul, your tuna sandwich story!!!!!! it's time for my confession. my apartment building is very old and the ceilings are very high. the hallways have the acoustics of a f*cking cathedral. whenever i leave my apartment i get an irrepressible urge, while i'm waiting for the elevator, to sing the walkure's "HOJOTOHO HOJOTOHO!!!" at the top of my voice. i ALWAYS get caught by the landlord. for some reason, when i open the elevator's door, my landlord is always inside, one eyebrow raised, and he stares at me all the way down to the lobby. another falsetto moment: when i'm at the top of a flight of stairs, i sing "STRANIERO ASCOLTA!" from turandot. it must be because in all the productions of turandot, the princess is at the top of the stairs when she begins to sing the riddles, so i must be pavlov-conditioned. nowadays, it's almost a tradition: my friends become suddenly quiet when we're at the top of the stairs because they know that i will automatically breathe in and belt out: "stranieeeeeeeeeeeeero ascoltaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!". wally, devoted to cul -----Mensaje original----- De: cul [mailto:cul@deeperwants.com] Enviado el: Lunes, 08 de Marzo de 2004 02:17 a.m. Para: Wally Kairuz; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: falsetto At the peak, and I swung around and broadly pointed an accusing tuna sandwich ( shoulda been ham) directly at a coupe of middle aged and beer bellied workmen who had returned unbeknownst to me and were taking in my "performance" while leaning against the door way eating their own sandwiches. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:25:02 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: embarrassing falsetto moments njc now (for aol, non-mac users) Wally says: cul, your tuna sandwich story!!!!!! it's time for my confession. > my apartment building is very old and the ceilings are very high. the hallways have the acoustics of a f*cking cathedral. whenever i leave my apartment i get an irrepressible urge, while i'm waiting for the elevator, to sing the walkure's "HOJOTOHO HOJOTOHO!!!" at the top of my voice. i ALWAYS get caught by the landlord. for some reason, when i open the elevator's door, my landlord is always inside, one eyebrow raised, and he stares at me all the way down to the lobby. > another falsetto moment: when i'm at the top of a flight of stairs, i sing "STRANIERO ASCOLTA!" from turandot. it must be because in all the productions of turandot, the princess is at the top of the stairs when she begins to sing the riddles, so i must be pavlov-conditioned. nowadays, it's almost a tradition: my friends become suddenly quiet when we're at the top of the stairs because they know that i will automatically breathe in and belt out: "stranieeeeeeeeeeeeero ascoltaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!". > wally, devoted to cul > > > > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: cul [mailto:cul@deeperwants.com] > Enviado el: Lunes, 08 de Marzo de 2004 02:17 a.m. > Para: Wally Kairuz; joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: falsetto > > > > > > At the peak, and I swung around and broadly pointed an accusing tuna > sandwich ( shoulda been ham) directly at a coupe of middle aged and beer > bellied workmen who had returned unbeknownst to me and were taking in my > "performance" while leaning against the door way eating their own > sandwiches. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:29:22 -0300 From: caio cardoso nehring Subject: Re: Don't compare Rickie to Joni... Em 8 Mar 2004, KJHSF@aol.com escreveu: >About her comparison to Joni, Rickie asked: "why? because we're both SMART? >because we're both blonde? ...it's not about whether I like or dislike her >music...it's sexist...etc." >I thought Rickie was very careful not to engage in sniping against Joni. In >another interview, when asked about Sheryl Crow, RIckie had responded, "I >don't discuss Sheryl Crow." end of discussion. ken > I think that's all, folks.Both blondes and very smart, always surrounded by incredible musicians...Rickie was a very careful lady, by the way. End of comparison. And Joy to the world... caio _________________________________________________________ Voce quer um iGMail protegido contra vmrus e spams? Clique aqui: http://www.igmailseguro.ig.com.br ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:31:02 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: falsetto oh that's the PASSAGGIO, the "click point" that cul mentioned. it occurs approx. between B-flat and F-sharp in the head voice range. let me give you further prove that joni is a soprano. have you watched the video where joni sings chelsea morning (i think it's the dick cavett tape)? she ends the song in a high note that would be impossible for an alto to reach. when you hear that note, you hear a soprano leggero, a "lucia" voice. when you hear an alto's highs, even if they are VERY high, you get a different quality, another texture. joni has an uneducated passaggio, though. that's why the "click", which is nothing more than the throat closing before it can open again, is so audible. i have said this before, so sorry for being repetitious. the fact that joni could sing in the lower range on STAS or Tin Angel, doesn't mean she is an alto. she was using "natural voice". her current range is very limited so it can't be classified either way. but most of her production until and including mingus was sung with a soprano voice. very little chest and a lot of head. wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Marian > Russell > Enviado el: Lunes, 08 de Marzo de 2004 05:39 a.m. > Para: joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: falsetto > > > I took some voice lessons for awhile. According the two voice > teachers that I worked with, the definition of a soprano or an > alto or a tenor or a bass has to do with where the voice breaks > from the chest voice into the head voice. If you sing an > ascending scale starting from the lowest note you can comfortably > sing, as you go up, you will reach a place where you have to > shift HOW you sing the notes in order to keep going up the scale. > That's like the break point. One of the aspects of voice > training is to teach you to move through the break point without > anyone noticing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 13:02:30 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Melissa Manchester Mack & other MM fans, looks like she's got a brand new one coming out tomorrow (March 9). Also of interest to the Mackster - it's mixed & engineered by Joe Vanelli - Gino's bro. Looks like you better check this one out if it's not already on your radar screen, Mack. Bob NP: Steve Miller, "Your Saving Grace" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 13:06:23 -0500 From: cul Subject: Re: embarrassing falsetto moments njc now Wally Kairuz wrote: >cul, >your tuna sandwich story!!!!!! it's time for my confession. > >my apartment building is very old and the ceilings are very high. the >hallways have the acoustics of a f*cking cathedral. whenever i leave my >apartment i get an irrepressible urge, while i'm waiting for the elevator, >to sing the walkure's "HOJOTOHO HOJOTOHO!!!" at the top of my voice. i >ALWAYS get caught by the landlord. for some reason, when i open the >elevator's door, my landlord is always inside, one eyebrow raised, and he >stares at me all the way down to the lobby. > > hahahahaha...the burning question then is whether that arched eyebrow represents mere consternation or considerable venereal venality...perhaps it indicates a potential for lower rent? :) >another falsetto moment: when i'm at the top of a flight of stairs, i sing >"STRANIERO ASCOLTA!" from turandot. it must be because in all the >productions of turandot, the princess is at the top of the stairs when she >begins to sing the riddles, so i must be pavlov-conditioned. nowadays, it's >almost a tradition: my friends become suddenly quiet when we're at the top >of the stairs because they know that i will automatically breathe in and >belt out: "stranieeeeeeeeeeeeero ascoltaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!". > > that's great! it must be constant fun, given your pavlovian urges, to go shopping with you in malls that have escalators! >wally, devoted to cul > cul, blushing (coyly) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:21:45 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: embarrassing falsetto moments njc now oh yes!!! the malls! the malls! irresistible. subway stations and multiplexes too. friends can't wait for it to happen. mothers hug their children to their (the mothers') bosom when i'm around. no potential for lower rent, though. my landlord is net het. and thanks god for that. he's disgusting and he smells of dirty socks that have been boiled in chicken stock. wally, devoted devoted devoted > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de cul > Enviado el: Lunes, 08 de Marzo de 2004 03:06 p.m. > Para: Wally Kairuz; joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: embarrassing falsetto moments njc now > > > Wally Kairuz wrote: > > >cul, > >your tuna sandwich story!!!!!! it's time for my confession. > > > >my apartment building is very old and the ceilings are very high. the > >hallways have the acoustics of a f*cking cathedral. whenever i leave my > >apartment i get an irrepressible urge, while i'm waiting for the > elevator, > >to sing the walkure's "HOJOTOHO HOJOTOHO!!!" at the top of my voice. i > >ALWAYS get caught by the landlord. for some reason, when i open the > >elevator's door, my landlord is always inside, one eyebrow raised, and he > >stares at me all the way down to the lobby. > > > > > > hahahahaha...the burning question then is whether that arched eyebrow > represents mere consternation or considerable venereal > venality...perhaps it indicates a potential for lower rent? :) > > >another falsetto moment: when i'm at the top of a flight of > stairs, i sing > >"STRANIERO ASCOLTA!" from turandot. it must be because in all the > >productions of turandot, the princess is at the top of the > stairs when she > >begins to sing the riddles, so i must be pavlov-conditioned. > nowadays, it's > >almost a tradition: my friends become suddenly quiet when we're > at the top > >of the stairs because they know that i will automatically breathe in and > >belt out: "stranieeeeeeeeeeeeero ascoltaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!". > > > > > that's great! it must be constant fun, given your pavlovian urges, to go > shopping with you in malls that have escalators! > > >wally, devoted to cul > > > cul, blushing (coyly) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:53:12 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: falsetto (for aol, non-mac users) Wally says: oh that's the PASSAGGIO, the "click point" that cul mentioned. it occurs approx. between B-flat and F-sharp in the head voice range. > let me give you further prove that joni is a soprano. have you watched the video where joni sings chelsea morning (i think it's the dick cavett tape)? she ends the song in a high note that would be impossible for an alto to reach. when you hear that note, you hear a soprano leggero, a "lucia" voice. when you hear an alto's highs, even if they are VERY high, you get a different quality, another texture. > joni has an uneducated passaggio, though. that's why the "click", which is nothing more than the throat closing before it can open again, is so audible. > i have said this before, so sorry for being repetitious. the fact that joni could sing in the lower range on STAS or Tin Angel, doesn't mean she is an alto. she was using "natural voice". her current range is very limited so it can't be classified either way. but most of her production until and including mingus was sung with a soprano voice. very little chest and a lot of head. > wally > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Marian > > Russell > > Enviado el: Lunes, 08 de Marzo de 2004 05:39 a.m. > > Para: joni@smoe.org > > Asunto: Re: falsetto > > > > > > I took some voice lessons for awhile. According the two voice > > teachers that I worked with, the definition of a soprano or an > > alto or a tenor or a bass has to do with where the voice breaks > > from the chest voice into the head voice. If you sing an > > ascending scale starting from the lowest note you can comfortably > > sing, as you go up, you will reach a place where you have to > > shift HOW you sing the notes in order to keep going up the scale. > > That's like the break point. One of the aspects of voice > > training is to teach you to move through the break point without > > anyone noticing ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:54:04 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: embarrassing falsetto moments njc now (for aol, non-mac users) Wally says: oh yes!!! the malls! the malls! irresistible. subway stations and multiplexes too. friends can't wait for it to happen. mothers hug their children to their (the mothers') bosom when i'm around. > no potential for lower rent, though. my landlord is net het. and thanks god for that. he's disgusting and he smells of dirty socks that have been boiled in chicken stock. > wally, devoted devoted devoted ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:40:50 EST From: Warrenkeith91354@aol.com Subject: Re: Newbie Welcome Ahmed ! I have to agree with Michael O' you do need to sample " Turbulent Indigo." I also agree with the selection of " Blue", " Court and Spark" and "Hejira." I think these four will give you a nice overall veiw of her journey thus far. Actually I would recommend the entire journey but that includes 15 releases - with the exception of live, greatest hits,or revisits. Enjoy your journey through whichever you chose to acquire next, I'm sure you will come to love them all... Jonily Yours, Warren Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:09:19 +0200 From: "Ahmed Shoukry" Subject: Newbie (bit NJC, mostly JC) Hi all, Thanks a lot for your welcome. Guess I kind of barged in unannounced. I'm Ahmed, 21 and Egyptian, I live in Cairo. Azeem, I never thought of my name as exotic, it actually is extremely usual here, but I must admit it feels cool having an unusual name,even if it's only around here :) Now when I said it was lame that I got to know Joni through Diana Krall, it was because the former is well known that it seems almost like an insult that I had to know her THROUGH someone so much younger. Actually I love Diana Krall, she's beautiful both artistically and physically. But I sometimes wonder about people who only sing the standards. I mean even if they do it wonderfully, isn't it a bit of a dead end? I mean no matter what you do it's been done before and there's little room for creativity. I mean even singers who don't write their own songs get original material, I don't know... Before I gave up my evil pirate self (!) I downloaded quite a few songs and I really like her with all her *stages*, she's amazing, although sometimes (most of the times) it takes quite a long time trying to figure out what she's talking about. Now although I feel that Travelogue isn't really liked by most people here, I find it really well done, I definitely I like her voice better now than her old soprano voice. I think from what the vibe I got collectively is that I should get Blue, Court and Sparks and Turbulent Indigo. The latter I've already made up my mind about it because I just love its sound, the songs I have off it are how do u stop and Sex Kills, I really love both. I think that Blue is an *artistic* must have. I once read an article in Vanity Fair where Elvis Costello was saying how much an inspiration that album was for him that I feel it's unmissable. C and S seems to be a definitive Joni, from what I've read, it was her biggest commercial hit, so it should be enjoyable. Anyway, thanks a lot for everyone who had replied in the group and privately, I'm looking forward to having these cd's. A friend of mine will get me those cd's from Dubai, since I've searched in vain for her cd's here... thnx Ahmed ps: I was wondering if anyone is willing to make me a copy of the tribute concert? Are there any other video material (non commercial) that could be shared? I'd really appreciate it. I'm more of a video person when it comes to artists new to me, like to see and hear them first... Also, I read on the site that there was another tribute concert, a canadian one, does anyone have this too?? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:17:49 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Newbie NJC > Hi all, > > Thanks a lot for your welcome. Guess I kind of barged in unannounced. I'm > Ahmed, 21 and Egyptian, I live in Cairo. Azeem, I never thought of my name as > exotic, it actually is extremely usual here, Ahmed, It is pretty common here in Florida, too, both as a first, and last, name. Azeem, on the other hand......... Jerry:) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:31:11 +0000 From: "J Harney" Subject: 1) Joni at Oscar party pic & 2) Rickie Lee Jones' Joni snub 1. I've noticed a few people express their interest in Joni's appearance at an Oscar party. The current issue (March 15, 2004, p. 12) of New York magazine has Joni is in one of Patrick McMullan's (he's become a brand name and has guys "snapping" pictures under his name) pictures, arms aloft, greeting a kittenish Gwen Stefani at the Vanity Fair Oscar party at Morton's. (Remember that Joni and Gwen Stefani shared space on the VF cover a couple of years ago for the VF music issue titled "Rock of Ages"?) Joni looks exuberant and is wearing her favorite Japanese designer. 2. Did anyone see Rickie Lee Jones on CBS Sunday Morning (March 07, 2004) as part of a series they have called "On Tour With..."? Well, the interviewer dared to make the comparison between Rickie Lee Jones and Joni. Big mistake! Rickie Lee Jones shot back fast: "Don't you say that!" She then went on to express her bewilderment at how anyone could make that comparison in the first place: "why, because we're both blonde, smart..." After a snub, a back-handed compliment. I believe there's been a lot of enmity between Joni and Rickie Lee Jones for a long time, which began with Rickie Lee Jones throwing the first grenade when she questioned whether or not Joni should consider herself a jazz singer. However, I may be way off... Jack - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page  download MSN Toolbar now! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:44:20 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: 1) Joni at Oscar party pic & 2) Rickie Lee Jones' Joni snub In a message dated 3/8/2004 5:32:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, jaquharn@hotmail.com writes: After a snub, a back-handed compliment. I believe there's been a lot of enmity between Joni and Rickie Lee Jones for a long time, I don't think it was a snub on Rickie's part at all. I think she bristled at the comparison in the same way that Joni bristles when called the greatest "woman" songwriter, or when compared to a plethora of Joni come latelys. I think there was some emnity at one time and that Rickie, like Joni, has learned how to respond to this type of comparison without slamming the other person while still showing displeasure toward the interviewer. ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:46:33 -0300 From: "Caio Nehring" Subject: Re: Mingus - ----- Original Message ----- From: "jlobello" To: ; Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 5:57 AM Subject: Mingus > Ken, > I have a turntable and I need the Mingus album. > Jono> Jono, Ken I have two turntables, on the same base and I am hearing the Mingus album now, actually lookin' at the two Mingus' portraits Joni has painted and finishing my work's day on this monday afternoon in a hot and rainy weather that announces full moon, in SP, Brazil. By the way: "Goodbye Pork Pie" is listed on the JMDL's "Joni's Most Covered Songs (35 times)" as it was Joni's composition. Isn't "Goodbye Pork Pie" a Mingus' instrumental composition that Joni created lyrics especially for the Mingus'album? The very first time i've heard this song was in a Mingus album, as a instrumental piece, in the mid sixties. The 2nd time, it was in a Mahavishnu John McLaughlin record called "My goal's beyond" (just greaaat...) circa 1970. Then later on, 76, Jeff Beck made an incredible rendition of the song in his "Wired" album. Isn't here a case of "Mingus Most Covered Songs", being Joni's one of these Covers, plus her inspired and marvellous lyrics due her meetings with Mingus ? I've always wanted to ask someone, since i've read the "Joni's Most Covered Songs" item on "Goodbye". Can you help me? Caio NP Michael Hedges' Beyond Boundaries ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:30:40 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: Recurring David Crosby thread, njc A co-worker postulated that he might indeed be in bigger trouble than usual *IF* the Texas jail time was for a felony. Felons can't carry guns I guess and the Feds don't treat a transgression involving firearms lightly. All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:04:03 +1300 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: RE: Recurring David Crosby thread, njc Jim wrote: > A co-worker postulated that he might indeed be in > bigger trouble than usual *IF* the Texas jail time > was for a felony. Felons can't carry guns I guess > and the Feds don't treat a transgression involving > firearms lightly. Crosby's conviction (resulting in a year of Texas jail time) was overturned on appeal, so presumably it was also removed from his record? Hell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:10:53 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: falsetto now njc --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > > (nowadays, because my chords and breath control have > been damaged by > cigarettes, i can sing alto parts only. i can do the > opera villainesses > (ortrud, venus, etc) but not the heroines (isolde, > elsa). eventually, i will > be good only for the "confidantes": the old broads > that help the heroine get > dressed, sing three lines and exit.) This really pisses me off about opera and musicals, so 'scuse me while I have a hissy fit. I hate the fact that sopranos get all the heroine roles and we altos get to be the villainesses and old broads. Bah! And guys with deep voices get to be bad guys and best friends, or whatever. What a friggin' cliche! As a rule, I don't even care for the sound of the soprano voice - too high and shrill for these old broad, villainess ears. I must admit, if I were an actor, I would prefer playing "bad" roles, because they're so much more fun - you can overact like crazy and people love it. Still, one should have a choice. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:56:14 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Mingus **Isn't "Goodbye Pork Pie" a Mingus' instrumental composition that Joni created lyrics especially for the Mingus'album?** Yes, Caio...the melody is Mingus' from way back. Joni added her lyrics specifically for the Mingus project. Since you've read my "Joni Undercover" homepage (and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for doing so) I would also hope that you've read this text there as well: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------- Technically, not all of these songs are Joni's composition, but I heard them from Joni first, so I'll always think of them as "Joni songs". - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ---------------------- I'm certain that when jazzers are playing GPPH instrumentally, they are doing so in tribute to Charles. However, when a vocalist sings the Joni lyric, imo it's as much a Joni cover as it is a Mingus cover. I also include the following titles as "Joni Covers" although Joni did not write them: How Do You Stop You're So Square, Baby I Don't Care Twisted And any instrumental versions of: Sweet Sucker Dance Dry Cleaner From Des Moines A Chair In The Sky Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:22:00 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, njc Hell wrote: > Crosby's conviction (resulting in a year of Texas jail time) > was overturned on appeal, so presumably it was also removed > from his record? True and good point. A lawyer at work (who is a huge CSN/CPR fan) and I were talking about it and I was speculating that it may not be as bad for Croz as it looks. The lawyer said it would depend on the law in New York. He said that in Massachusetts you get a year in jail if you are caught carrying an unregistered gun (yikes). I'm not as worried about the pot because most states have decriminalized it for an ounce or less. I guess more details will come out eventually. As a funny aside, (well to me) on another forum I read someone who wrote that he never knew Croz was a Republican LOL (sorry ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:37:35 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: embarrassing falsetto moments njc now --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > cul, > your tuna sandwich story!!!!!! it's time for my > confession. > You two and your stories are cracking me right up. I think you make a perfect couple too - could you imagine what kind of kids you might end up with - LOL! I wish I lived in the same neighbourhood as both of you. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:12:30 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Test(NJC) --- jlobello wrote: > OK, > I took that stupid test and here's the score: > > 44% (Yankee). Barely into the Yankee category. > > I don't understand the scoring--most of my answers > put me in the upper Great > Lakes and the western catagory. > Jono I think the test is extemely flawed. Very few of the answers "prove" someone is from the south. Most of them seem to suggest areas of the north and northeast. One or two suggest the south. Most of them tend to be the sort of thing you could hear anywhere in the U.S. I think what they might have been trying to do was to demonstrate that some people should come out very Yankee - and everyone else is from Dixie. Go figure - I've never been south of Boston, but I came out 66% Dixie. Well, lawks-a-mercy, I feel a case of the vapahs comin' on, so fetch me a glass of that mint julep, willya? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 0:54:50 -0500 From: Subject: Recurring Jonatha Brooke thread, njc At work we get a radio & records industry newspaper called "R&R". On page 74 of the February 20, 2004 edition, the AAA artist of the week is Jonatha Brooke. Some JMDLers have recommended Jonatha [pronounced JON-uh-thuh here in Northern Kentucky] on the evidence that she has great stories and uses alt tunings. The AAA editor, John Schoenberger said, >We first became acquainted with the amazing voice and intimate lyrics of Jonatha Brooke when she was partners with Jennifer Kimball in the band The Story. After that association dissolved in 1984, Brooke stepped out on her own, first releasing "Plumb" and then "10 Cent Wings" via a major label. But Brooke always had a wild independent streak in her, and it was inevitable that she would finally step out on her own - completely. In 1999, Brooke decided to do so when she launched the Bad Dog label with a live album. She followed that with 2001's "Steady Pull", which yielded a top-five Triple A song, "Linger". Brooke returns with "Back In the Circus", and the project takes her D.I.Y. (do-it-yourself is a USA expression) approach even further: She produced the album herself, played most of the instruments and wrote the majority of the songs. "I think I've come to a place in my life where I'm really centered and not concerned with what anybody else thinks," she says. "It feels great to have made a couple of records on my own and to have achieved a certain level of success with them. I've learned to trust that feeling in the pit of my stomach and to know what's right for each song." The project ["Back In the Circus", remember?] was largely created with Pro Tools and M=Audio, but [Jonatha] Brooke nevertheless brought in others to help out, including Ryan Freeland (programming, keys, drums, guitar); Mitchell Froom (keys); Goffrey Moore (programming, keys); and Eric Bazillian, who co=produced two songs on the project and played several instruments. But this album is very much [Jonatha] Brooke's own vision. According to her, this is the first time she tried to make a record that had a beginning, middle, and end. As she explains, "I wanted this album to feel like a journey, because that what making it felt like to me." And even though she made full use of modern technology in creating the music, it still has a very personal and organic sound. "Back In the Circus" features several new songs, including the title track; the first single, "Better After All"; "It Matters Now"; and "Sally", as well as the Brooke-Bazillian collaboration, "Less Than Love Is Nothing." In addition, she decided to include a few choice covers this time around, such as Brian Wilson's "God Only Knows," James Taylor's "Fire And Rain," and Alan Parsons' "Eye In the Sky." "I think this is my most intimate, honest, cohesive set of songs I've ever done," says [Jonatha] Brooke. "Maybe I say that every time I make a record, because I love every record I've made, and every one has its own story. But this one really feels special to me." After a series of dates in the New York area in mid-February and again in mid-March, [Jonatha] Brooke will be on the road for several months.> As you'd expect, more info is at http://www.jonathabrooke.com/ March 11-14 and 16-21, 2004 NYC March 24, in Annapolis March 26, 2004 Boston March 27, 2004 Philadelphia April 1, 2004 Ann Arbor April 2, 2004 Chicago April 3, 2004 Milwaukee April 8, 2004 LA April 22, 2004 Ithaca April 23, 2004 Albany np: DMB: "Under the Table and Dreaming" Is it old enough to be a classic? Jim L'Hommedieu "Lama" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:06:49 -0800 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: RE: falsetto - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Wally Kairuz" Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:31:02 -0300 >oh that's the PASSAGGIO, the "click point" that cul mentioned. it >occurs approx. between B-flat and F-sharp in the head voice range. It actually occurs at different points for the different voices. For a soprano, I think the "click point" is somewhere around E to F above middle C. For an alto, it's lower - like around C to D-flat. I don't know what the points are for tenor and bass. I think in order to find out for sure whether or not Joni is a soprano we would need to determine her "click point". Maybe there is a way to do that without meeting with her personally. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:30:44 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc I found more info from an article at E online here: http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,13646,00.htm "The rotund rocker was charged with unlawful possession of marijuana and criminal possession of a weapon--the latter, a third-degree felony that could potentially net him up to seven years in prison if convicted, according to Manhattan District Attorney spokeswoman Barbara Thompson." Not looking good. Geez. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:35:19 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: The draft njc The Pentagon is quietly moving to fill draft board vacancies nationwide. While officials say there's no cause to worry, some experts aren't so sure...In a new draft, college students whose lottery number was selected would only be permitted to finish their current semester; seniors could finish their final year. After that, they'd have to answer the call. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5146.htm WHAT'S NEW? Selective Service Annual Performance Plan FY-2004 http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 02:07:28 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: March 9 On March 9 the following articles were published: 1978: "Joni Mitchell's Reckless and Shapeless "Daughter"" - Rolling Stone (Review - Album, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=256 1986: "Lucky Girl" - Los Angeles Herald (Interview, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=135 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:19:38 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Recurring David Crosby thread, more - njc Kakki wrote: > "The rotund rocker was charged with unlawful possession of marijuana and > criminal possession of a weapon--the latter, a third-degree felony that > could potentially net him up to seven years in prison if convicted, > according to Manhattan District Attorney spokeswoman Barbara Thompson." > Not looking good. Geez. I've read (mainly in novels, but I trust the author's research!) that NY gun laws were very strict, and even law officials (police, etc.) cannot enter the state with a weapon. I guess it makes sense that civilians would be penalised higher. It's definitely not looking good. As far as the marijuana goes, he has said previously (in his own emails to the CSN list) that he doesn't partake any more - I wonder if that's changed, too? But then is the fact that the forgotten bag was his, proof enough that he owned the items in it, or put them there? Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a WHOLE NEW EXPERIENCE! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #102 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)