From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #93 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, March 1 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 093 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: re Gibson movie really njc now [Susan Guzzi ] weddings njc [colin ] Re: re Gibson movie njc [colin ] Gibson's movie, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: puppy update njc [Chris Marshall ] CHRIS MARSHALL NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: Songs for a funeral! NJC ["amelio747" ] Re: Songs for a funeral! NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Songs for a funeral! NJC ["ron" ] Joni Jokes [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni Jokes ["amelio747" ] eastern rain ["jlobello" ] Re: Mondegreens [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Joni Jokes [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: eastern rain [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: eastern rain [Catherine McKay ] Re: eastern rain [Emiliano ] Re: Mondegreens [Randy Remote ] Re: eastern rain [Gary Zack ] Re: re Gibson movie njc ["Kevin Arshad" ] Re: re Gibson movie njc [colin ] Re: re Gibson movie njc [cul ] Re: re Gibson movie njc [Catherine McKay ] NJC Re: eastern rain [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: re Gibson movie njc ["Kevin Arshad" ] Re: re Gibson movie njc [colin ] Re: re Gibson movie njc [colin ] Watching the Oscars njc [AzeemAK@aol.com] PNP njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Trivia ["jlobello" ] Trivia 2 (NJC) ["jlobello" ] Re: re Gibson movie njc [cul ] Re: Trivia 2 (NJC) [Gary Zack ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 00:39:03 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: RE: re Gibson movie really njc now Personally I dont think any child should be without the Krishna Lunchbox. Did you all see the inside? - Its got a picture of a big bologna with a line through it! http://www.mcphee.com/enlightenment/current/10439.html Peace, Susan Wally Kairuz wrote: shut up! the yard nun takes the cake! http://www.mcphee.com/enlightenment/current/10463.html wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Randy > Remote > Enviado el: Sabado, 28 de Febrero de 2004 11:25 p.m. > Para: Deb Messling; joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: re Gibson movie really njc now > > > Yes, but can you hollow it out and make it into a bong? I would > rather save my money for the Jesus hanging bamboo curtain, $74.95. > http://www.mcphee.com/enlightenment/christian.html > > Deb Messling wrote: > > > Randy thinks he's being funny about the Jesus action figures? > Take a look > > at this: > > > > http://www.mcphee.com/enlightenment/current/10746.html > > > > >I knew it! Jesus action figures! And Mary M! Herod! The Donkey! > > >Call my broker. Wait, you didn't mean roach clips and stuff, right? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 09:23:50 +0000 From: colin Subject: weddings njc I take it none of our listers have gone along and gotten married in SF or NY? It is all over the telly here. Bush of course is chucking a fit over it. I wonder how many Bush lovers will still insist they do not support homophobia? I think it would be more appropriate to change your constitution in a way which disallows relgious funy bigots from taking office. After all, church and state are supposed to be separate. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 09:32:52 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: re Gibson movie njc The bitterenss about this film just confirms for me all the reasons why I have no time for religion, any religion. Some, in their ignorance, thinks this equates to being athiest. Nothing could be further from the truth. Despite peaopl's assurances that some good comes from religion, i don't believe so. The basic concept of it is flawed and I believe anyone with a brain and a conscience and courage, I guess, would realise they have to live according to their own conscience and not what others have decreed. All this arguing over whose God is the right God, whether or not women should be priests, who is going to Hell or Heaven, whether or not gays shou;ld be accoeted, whetehr women have equal rights before God etc is all just so stupid and shows religion to be the divisive nonsense that it is. I guess it quells the fear of many to believe that if they just believe this or that they will be 'saved' or loved. Easier I suppose than taking responsibilty for oneself and doing one's best to figure it all out. Any God who doesn't accpet that isn't worhty of the title. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:48:18 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Gibson's movie, njc >Susan wrote: > My thoughts on the movie have little, but some, to do with the its content. What I feel is the pruposeful uproar caused by it, is to stuff the box office. And at stake here is the inflaming of bigotry and anti semitism. > This consequence may sound improbable to some of you all over the world. But I can tell you it's gotten so bad in France that the chief rabbi has instructed jews not to wear any outside signs (yarmulke, star of David, etc) for safety reasons. Both he and I never dreamed we'd be telling this to our children some day, but we are. The sad part is nothing has changed, the Shoah changed absolutely nothing. So now Gibson is trying to revive those sentiments in the rest of the world by going back to a pre-Vatican 2 outlook, and spreading the Emmerich' vision, itself decried by the Church. I have been preparing myself for this argument over the movie but Vince already said it all. Thank you Vince. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:51:59 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: puppy update njc On 29 Feb 2004, at 0:47, colin wrote: > The little one has given up and passed. :( Sorry to hear that Colin. How are the others doing? - --Chris Marshall chrisATstryngs.com (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:57:04 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: CHRIS MARSHALL NJC Dear All It was our own Chris Marshall's Birthday on the 28th... and I have not seen anything on the site to say HAPPY BIRTHDAY Chris... I called him, so he knows he has my wishes, but I know there are loads of you that, had you known, would have wanted to say Happy Birthday to him as well.... Happy Birthday Chris.. thank you for being my friend Lulu XXXXXXX ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:35:39 -0000 From: "amelio747" Subject: Re: Songs for a funeral! NJC Like your choice Bob! I've also thought Eli would sound good at a church funeral and last night my friend goes "what the hell are we listening to?...it sounds like crazy church worship music" ;) * * * * * * Stephen T "I get the urge for going But I never seem to go" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:37 PM Subject: Re: Songs for a funeral! > I really just want one song at my funeral, and it's not even > a Joni - imagine that! > > Laura Nyro's "And When I Die", which I always loved (like most > of you I guess, I was intro'd to it by Blood Sweat & Tears), > But now that I have that "one child born to carry on" it > really means a lot to me. > > Since I intend to be cremated, I guess you could play Joni's > "Smokin'"! :~) > > Bob > > NP: Shelby Lynne, "All Of A Sudden You Disappeared" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 08:37:19 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Songs for a funeral! NJC **I've also thought Eli would sound good at a church funeral and last night my friend goes "what the hell are we listening to?...it sounds like crazy church worship music" ;)** I think of Eli more as a "conception song" than a funeral song though! ;~) Bob NP: Marie Bryant w/Lester Young, "On The Sunny Side Of The Street" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:47:58 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Songs for a funeral! NJC hi well, when i die i think i want something nice and sombre, and mournfull, and respectful. how about tori amos' "happy phantom" ;-) (not sure if that is the actual track name - but its the one about the happy phantom from little earthquakes) ron ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 07:08:13 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Joni Jokes Hello dear friends, I was wandring...are there any jokes about Joni? Did she ever caused any humor regarding her personality? Yours, Nuriel Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:20:43 -0000 From: "amelio747" Subject: Re: Joni Jokes I've heard Joni snipes on TV... but never any jokes! NP: There's A Rugged Road - Judee Sill * * * * * * Stephen T "I get the urge for going But I never seem to go" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nuriel Tobias" To: Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 3:08 PM Subject: Joni Jokes > Hello dear friends, > > I was wandring...are there any jokes about Joni? Did she ever caused any humor regarding her personality? > > Yours, > > Nuriel > Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 10:19:21 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: eastern rain All, Why is Eastern Rain aggrieved? Jono >[Joni] generated numerous songs for her newly instituted publishing company, a BMI-administered entity she christened Siquomb. The name stemmed from an acronym-based cast of mythological characters she created for a possible children's book; Siquomb stands for She Is Queen Undisputedly Of Mind Beauty. The word games carried over into "Sisotowbell Lane," a song on her first album whose title stands for the hopeful maxim "Somehow In Spite Of Trouble Ours Will Be Everlasting Love." Among the still-unrecorded songs from this interval were "Just Like Me," "Brandy Eyes," "Mr. Blue," "Drummer Man," "Carnival In Kenora," and the aggrieved "Eastern Rain."< ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:14:58 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Mondegreens In a message dated 2/29/04 11:01:46 AM Central Standard Time, LCStanley7 writes: > Chuck wrote: > > Send in your favorite mondegreen right after that, Joni mondegreens > >> >> getting extra credit... > > > Hi Chuck! > > Great explanation of the mondegreens! Here's a couple. This first > one isn't Joni but is cute. There was a boy in Florida with Cystic Fibrosis, > and when he heard his mother say Cystic Fibrosis, he heard "sixty five roses." > So, he thought he had sixty five roses. Now, they have fundraisers for > Cystic Fibrosis centered around sixty five roses. Here's a website that tells > the story better: SixtyFiveRoses Cystic Fibrosis Resource Center > > Now, for a Joni mondegreen... When I was in college, I lived with a > drug dealer, and we listened to Joni a lot. In Help Me, instead of "Cause > I've seen some hot hot blazes come down to smoke and ash" she heard, "Cause I've > seen some hot hot blazes come down to smokin' hash." > > Love and laughs, > Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:53:27 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Jokes **I was wandring...are there any jokes about Joni? Did she ever caused any humor regarding her personality?** Nuriel, the only thing that comes to mind are the references on Letterman's show, where somebody says a phrase (usually a _______&________ formatted comment), and Dave says "wasn't that the title of a Joni Mitchell album"? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:59:05 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: eastern rain **Why is Eastern Rain aggrieved? "aggrieved" seems an unusual adjective for the song. The word means "to cause injury to" or something like that, and there's nothing lyrically that's consistent with the definition. All I can think of is that the writer thinks that Eastern Rain is so bad it causes injury to listen to it, and if that's true I have to go on record as saying that I strongly disagree. :~) Joni never released it, but Fairport Convention did. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:30:27 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: eastern rain --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > **Why is Eastern Rain aggrieved? > > "aggrieved" seems an unusual adjective for the song. > The word means "to cause > injury to" or something like that, and there's > nothing lyrically that's > consistent with the definition. All I can think of > is that the writer thinks that > Eastern Rain is so bad it causes injury to listen to > it, and if that's true I > have to go on record as saying that I strongly > disagree. :~) > That would probably be "agrieving" then. "Agrieved" suggests something injured or insulted IT (the song, that is.) Which still doesn't make a lot of sense. Is it possible that the person that wrote (or said) that may have meant that it's a song full of grief. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:44:07 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: eastern rain Hi, folks! - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Para: ; Enviado: domingo, 29 de febrero de 2004 18:59 Asunto: Re: eastern rain > **Why is Eastern Rain aggrieved? > > "aggrieved" seems an unusual adjective for the song. The word means "to cause > injury to" or something like that, and there's nothing lyrically that's > consistent with the definition. All I can think of is that the writer thinks that > Eastern Rain is so bad it causes injury to listen to it, and if that's true I > have to go on record as saying that I strongly disagree. :~) > > Joni never released it, but Fairport Convention did. > > Bob I surely agree with that: Eastern Rain is a true gem, of course. But, could it be the reviewer's aim to state that this song "has been aggrieved", ie: has suffered injury (instead of causing it)?. Maybe he doesn't like the Fairport Conventtion cover at all :-) Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano NP: Winter Lady, from some compilation ("Off the record", actually) that some Wonder Kid made... and Laurent was so kind to send it to me: many thanks to you both!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:30:48 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Mondegreens When I first got Blue, I thought she sang "Everybody's saying that hells the hippie's way to go" Sounds kinda harsh! LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: > In Help Me, instead of "Cause > > I've seen some hot hot blazes come down to smoke and ash" she heard, "Cause I've > > seen some hot hot blazes come down to smokin' hash." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:53:45 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: eastern rain Here is the definition I found: ag7grieved ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-grvd) adj. Feeling distress or affliction. Treated wrongly; offended. Law. Treated unjustly, as by denial of or infringement upon one's legal rights The writer may not have used this word properly, but in my mind, it sounds like what he/she meant was that the song was treated wrongly by NOT being recorded on an album by Joni in those early days. My two cents...;-) Best, Gary jlobello wrote: >All, >Why is Eastern Rain aggrieved? Jono > >>[Joni] generated numerous songs for her newly instituted publishing company, >> >a BMI-administered entity she christened Siquomb. The name stemmed from an >acronym-based cast of mythological characters she created for a possible >children's book; Siquomb stands for She Is Queen Undisputedly Of Mind Beauty. >The word games carried over into "Sisotowbell Lane," a song on her first album >whose title stands for the hopeful maxim "Somehow In Spite Of Trouble Ours >Will Be Everlasting Love." Among the still-unrecorded songs from this interval >were "Just Like Me," "Brandy Eyes," "Mr. Blue," "Drummer Man," "Carnival In >Kenora," and the aggrieved "Eastern Rain."< ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:03:55 -0600 From: "Kevin Arshad" Subject: Re: re Gibson movie njc No. The action figure remark was obviously meant to indicate that it would be in connection to the movie for further profit as so many movies use merchandising. The link you provided does not have Figures from the movie or that promote the movie or are in any way connected with the movie. Frankly, I've hardly seen among appreciaters of beauty such a concensus of disdain for the Creator of all that is truly beautiful. ."I lay down my life,that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father" JOHN 10:16-17 JESUS THE CHRIST - GOD IN THE FLESH AS A MAN. " ----- Original Message ----- From: Deb Messling To: Randy Remote Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 8:10 PM Subject: Re: re Gibson movie njc Randy thinks he's being funny about the Jesus action figures? Take a look at this: http://www.mcphee.com/enlightenment/current/10746.html >I knew it! Jesus action figures! And Mary M! Herod! The Donkey! >Call my broker. Wait, you didn't mean roach clips and stuff, right? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:05:55 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: re Gibson movie njc Kevin Arshad wrote: >Frankly, I've hardly seen among appreciaters of beauty such a concensus of >disdain for the Creator of all that is truly beautiful. > >. > I really find it hard to understand why people interpret what is written so that they can feel offended. Surely there is enough to offend in this world without inventing more. Unless I missed some posts, no one was expressing isdain for God as they understand God but for Gibson, his father's beliefs regarding the Holocaust, and the film itself. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 17:08:26 -0500 From: cul Subject: Re: re Gibson movie njc Kevin, There is indeed merchandise being flogged as part of this commodification of the passion play....spikes as necklaces and so-on. Any consensus of derision toward the movie is not meant to be heretical nor aimed at the spiritual value or truth of the meaning of Jesus' crucifixion. The criticism arises from people being sick and tired of being hyped and treated as nothing more than consumers and having everything around them, even something as private and intimate as their spirituality turned into a commodity. in every culture in decline the watchful among the slaves know that all that is genuine will conned and scorned and cast away Personally, I'm not a Christian, but it still irks me to see Christians letting commercial and and political agencies debasing what should be sacred to enrich themselves or achieve political power in order to suit a particular world view based on articles of faith. I found no instruction the movie. It told me nothing I didn't already know. As far as I'm concerned the film was a sublimation of Gibson's sado-masochistic and probably unconscious prurient interest in the crucification process itself; something which is well documented as existing for some members of the Catholic priesthood. When you consider that Jesus could work miracles and that he already had succeeded in transcending the "flesh", to obsess on the torture of that flesh as what is vital about the sacrifice Jesus made is to miss the point completely in my estimation. What is vital is the submission by Jesus to what he saw as his own destiny, not whatever physical pain he might have endured. The physical pain Jesus endured, and what Gibson's film celebrated in such exquisite detail, is what the average Christian is taught and believes is the sacrifice that pays for redemption of their sins. "He went through all that torture and died on the cross in order that I might be saved". No. What Jesus offered and demonstrated was transcendence of and transmutation from the belief in sin itself. Gibson's film fails to move beyond pandering to our fear of pain and death and in fact reinforces that fixation. In that, it is not much more than titillating religious propaganda served up in an pretty package to be consumed like a really hot tamale. respectfully, cul Kevin Arshad wrote: No. The action figure remark was obviously meant to indicate that it would be in connection to the movie for further profit as so many movies use merchandising. The link you provided does not have Figures from the movie or that promote the movie or are in any way connected with the movie. Frankly, I've hardly seen among appreciaters of beauty such a concensus of disdain for the Creator of all that is truly beautiful. ."I lay down my life,that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father" JOHN 10:16-17 JESUS THE CHRIST - GOD IN THE FLESH AS A MAN. " ----- Original Message ----- From: Deb Messling To: Randy Remote Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 8:10 PM Subject: Re: re Gibson movie njc Randy thinks he's being funny about the Jesus action figures? Take a look at this: http://www.mcphee.com/enlightenment/current/10746.html >I knew it! Jesus action figures! And Mary M! Herod! The Donkey! >Call my broker. Wait, you didn't mean roach clips and stuff, right? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 17:37:59 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: re Gibson movie njc --- cul wrote: > What is vital is the submission by > Jesus to what he saw > as his own destiny, not whatever physical pain he > might have endured. Exactly so. If you see Jesus as the son of God, and that he submitted to becoming flesh and blood, and to experiencing what mortal humans experience, then the manner of his death isn't terribly relevant. The fact of his death is. (And then there's that business of resurrection...) The > physical pain Jesus endured, and what Gibson's film > celebrated in such > exquisite detail, is what the average Christian is > taught and believes is > the sacrifice that pays for redemption of their > sins. "He went through > all that torture and died on the cross in order that > I might be saved". > No. > > What Jesus offered and demonstrated was > transcendence of and > transmutation from the belief in sin itself. This makes much more sense than the "He died for your sins" stuff. Many people have died or been martyred for a cause, but only rarely do we hear that they "died for our sins." And Buddah and others didn't have to die horribly to have their messages passed on through generations. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:06:12 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: eastern rain **but in my mind, it sounds like what he/she meant was that the song was treated wrongly by NOT being recorded on an album by Joni in those early days. My two cents...;-)** Hey, I like your way of thinking Gary! :~) I'll see your 2 cents and raise you a nickel. Bob NP: Joni, "Dreamland" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 17:36:26 -0600 From: "Kevin Arshad" Subject: Re: re Gibson movie njc What this and other respondents and people everywhere fail to realize is that the whole "bore our sins, died for our sins" idea is that "THE SON" was Spiritually seperated from "THE FATHER" when "THE FATHER" actually placed all the weight and horror of all the actual SIN of the world on JESUS THE SON and being ETERNITY itself JESUS' suffering of seperation from the FATHER(who is also Eternity itself) was sufficient to cover the suffering for all those who would come to have a real, literal spiritual relationship with HIM thru seeing their need for HIM turning to HIM in realized desperation and turning away from their old way of life with the help of HIS indwelling SPIRIT which HE gives to you in measure when you do come to HIM. And then continuing in a real, alive relationship with HIM with HIS SPIRIT LIFE in you and you in HIM. And JESUS never did anything but confirm the reality of SIN, never indicating that it was just an IDEA. There is no Scripture to back such a notion. K A ----- Original Message ----- From: Catherine McKay To: cul ; Kevin Arshad ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 4:37 PM Subject: Re: re Gibson movie njc --- cul wrote: > What is vital is the submission by > Jesus to what he saw > as his own destiny, not whatever physical pain he > might have endured. Exactly so. If you see Jesus as the son of God, and that he submitted to becoming flesh and blood, and to experiencing what mortal humans experience, then the manner of his death isn't terribly relevant. The fact of his death is. (And then there's that business of resurrection...) The > physical pain Jesus endured, and what Gibson's film > celebrated in such > exquisite detail, is what the average Christian is > taught and believes is > the sacrifice that pays for redemption of their > sins. "He went through > all that torture and died on the cross in order that > I might be saved". > No. > > What Jesus offered and demonstrated was > transcendence of and > transmutation from the belief in sin itself. This makes much more sense than the "He died for your sins" stuff. Many people have died or been martyred for a cause, but only rarely do we hear that they "died for our sins." And Buddah and others didn't have to die horribly to have their messages passed on through generations. ===== Catherine Toronto --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 00:35:04 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: re Gibson movie njc Kevin Arshad wrote: >And JESUS never did anything but confirm the reality of SIN, never indicating >that it was just an IDEA. There is no Scripture to back such a notion. > > K > > 1. whether you like it or not, your interpretation of Scripture is your idea. It's meaning is the menaing YOU gave it. The only meaning anything has is the meaning each of us creates. You may think you know Turth. you do not. You only have your idea of it. 2. There does not need to be scripture to back any notion. people have brains and ability to think for themselves. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 00:39:44 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: re Gibson movie njc Catherine McKay wrote: >This makes much more sense than the "He died for your >sins" stuff. > i doesn't make sense because it isn't sense. It is adi that jesus said that we reap what we sow. that appears to be true. Now if people really were saved from their sins by belief, then those that believe would cease to suffer. They would not reap what they sowed. If Jesus did take on 'our sins' then for thsoe that believe, all suffering would cease. It is obvious that is not the case. even believers reap what they sow. we are 'punished' by our sins, not for them and i have neevr met anyone who has not and does not suffer in this way. No one pays for my mistakes, i do. No one pays for your, you do. That is how it is and how it should be. that is just. That is my idea of what jesus taught. Personal responsibilty. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:27:41 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Watching the Oscars njc Yes, I'm sad enough to watch the whole damn thing live, and stay up til 5am! Just one question: Benicio Del Toro - did he dress and groom himself in the dark? The wonderful Dirty Pretty Things is nominated, so I'm happy, and if it wins I will be over the moon! Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 00:08:34 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: PNP njc does anybody know what "PNP" stand for in gay personal ads? wally ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:56:11 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: Trivia All, When I was talking to a female friend of mine last night I said that Joni was the first female singer-song writer in her genre, but now, when thinking about that statement, there was also Carole King (who had to have preceded Joni with an LP by at least two or three years) and Laura Nyro ( the great and sorely missed) to consider. And, of course both of these women were Joni's contemporaries. Can anyone add anyone else to this list? Jono ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:46:37 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: Trivia 2 (NJC) All, I think I might have answered part of my own question in reference to = Carole King: Hits And Rarities From The Sixties (rec. 1958-1966, rel. 1995) Some of the material on this 22 track compilation is actually from = King's aborted early solo career in 1958 - 1959. There's also her 1962 = Top 40 hit "It Might As Well Rain Until September," and a bunch of = obscure girl group tracks with differing levels of King involvement, = none of which go beyond 1966. (JA) The City (The City: 1968) Ironically, Ode's first move after signing King was to package her in a = "rock band" that actually consisted of just her and two sidemen - = bassist Charles Larkey and guitarist Danny Kortchmar, both of whom = backed King on her later albums (Larkey eventually married King). = Producer Lou Adler also is in place here and also continued to be a = standby. The album was a total flop, but two of the tunes were covered = by other artists - "Wasn't Born To Follow," which shortly afterwards = appeared on a Byrds album, and "Hi-De-Ho," which soon became a Top 40 = hit for Blood, Sweat & Tears. I've never seen this in the stores, and I = believe it's not out on CD. (JA)=20 Writer (1970) - After years of collaborating with Gerry Goffin as a Tin Pan Alley = songwriter and sporadically striking out with her own recordings, King = decided to metamorphose into a soft-rock singer, reusing Adler, = Kortchmar and Larkey, but taking the credit for herself. Most of her = winning formula is here to be found, and almost everything works: tracks = like the mournful, stripped down "Child Of Mine" and the triumphantly = clever "What Have You Got To Lose" would have fit in perfectly on = Tapestry. What's really striking are the points where King doesn't know = what she's doing: "To Love" is a 2/4 country tune; the repetitive = "Eventually" gets an annoying string arrangement; "Raspberry Jam" is a = laughable 3/4-time 60's jazz number, complete with oh-so-cool chordal = guitar solo; "Sweet Sweetheart" gets an Aretha-like R & B treatment; and = then there's a folksy, upbeat take on "Goin' Back," which had been = covered successfully by the Byrds, and sounds very similar here except = for James Taylor's prominent guitar and backing vocal. Still, it's all = solid, and by the time King's gorgeous remake of her "Up On The Roof" = comes on you'll be sure to have a smile on your face (ironically, = Taylor's on this track too). I can't fathom why, but the album went = pretty much ignored, and it wasn't until the next one that King became a = mass-market phenomenon. (JA) - This record is a lot of fun, and King rocks harder on tracks like = "Spaceship Races" and "I Can't Hear You No More" than she does on any of = her other classic albums. (DBW)=20 And thene there was... Tapestry (1971) =20 [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of star40.gif] [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of star45.gif] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 00:08:45 -0500 From: cul Subject: Re: re Gibson movie njc 1) you needn't shout with giant red letters to make your point, I am not trying to assault your beliefs 2) all of scripture backs my idea, scripture itself is idea, whether it is considered inspired by god or not is an idea, all of these things are ideas we have about the nature of reality, none of them are reality itself...as an ancient chinese proverb said: "if you want to know the truth of things, you must stop having opinions. cul Kevin Arshad wrote: What this and other respondents and people everywhere fail to realize is that the whole "bore our sins, died for our sins" idea is that "THE SON" was Spiritually seperated from "THE FATHER" when "THE FATHER" actually placed all the weight and horror of all the actual SIN of the world on JESUS THE SON and being ETERNITY itself JESUS' suffering of seperation from the FATHER(who is also Eternity itself) was sufficient to cover the suffering for all those who would come to have a real, literal spiritual relationship with HIM thru seeing their need for HIM turning to HIM in realized desperation and turning away from their old way of life with the help of HIS indwelling SPIRIT which HE gives to you in measure when you do come to HIM. And then continuing in a real, alive relationship with HIM with HIS SPIRIT LIFE in you and you in HIM.And JESUS never did anything but confirm the reality of SIN, never indicating that it was just an IDEA. There is no Scripture to back such a notion. KA ----- Original Message ----- From: Catherine McKayTo: cul ; Kevin Arshad ; joni@smoe.orgSent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 4:37 PMSubject: Re: re Gibson movie njc --- cul wrote: > What is vital is the submission by > Jesus to what he saw > as his own destiny, not whatever physical pain he > might have endured. Exactly so. If you see Jesus as the son of God, and that he submitted to becoming flesh and blood, and to experiencing what mortal humans experience, then the manner of his death isn't terribly relevant. The fact of his death is. (And then there's that business of resurrection...) The > physical pain Jesus endured, and what Gibson's film > celebrated in such > exquisite detail, is what the average Christian is > taught and believes is > the sacrifice that pays for redemption of their > sins. "He went through > all that torture and died on the cross in order that > I might be saved". > No. > > What Jesus offered and demonstrated was > transcendence of and > transmutation from the belief in sin itself. This makes much more sense than the "He died for your sins" stuff. Many people have died or been martyred for a cause, but only rarely do we hear that they "died for our sins." And Buddah and others didn't have to die horribly to have their messages passed on through generations. ===== Catherine Toronto ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 00:53:03 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Trivia 2 (NJC) Hi Jono, I have a copy of "The City" on CD but it has been released as "Now That Everything's Been Said" with "The City" as a subtitle. It has the songs you mention. You can see it here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00000J2PL/qid=1078118448/sr=1-24/ref=sr_1_24/104-0116773-9764742?v=glance&s=music If for some reason the link doesn't work you can go to cdnow.com and look up Carole King. I bought this CD after reading Michele Kort's book on Laura Nyro - the book is in storage right now but if I recall correctly, the book mentioned that Carole's song "I Don't Believe It" had a nyroesque quality to it and I was curious to hear it. I always liked Carole anyway, and of course love Laura Nyro. I see too that they have released a remastered version of "Tapestry" with bonus tracks. Best regards, Gary jlobello wrote: >All, >I think I might have answered part of my own question in reference to = >Carole King: > >The City (The City: 1968) >The album was a total flop, but two of the tunes were covered = >by other artists - "Wasn't Born To Follow," which shortly afterwards = >appeared on a Byrds album, and "Hi-De-Ho," which soon became a Top 40 = >hit for Blood, Sweat & Tears. I've never seen this in the stores, and I >believe it's not out on CD. (JA)=20 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #93 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)