From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #84 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, February 23 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 084 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Beef? [colin ] online listening, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Clouds [Kate ] i made it!!!!!!! njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Two Grey Rooms [Steve Polifka ] RE: New Orleans ["Maggie McNally" ] Re: Two Grey Rooms [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Two Grey Rooms [Steve Polifka ] Re: Beef? ["jlobello" ] Re: Love of my soul: beyond lyrics ["Caio Nehring" ] Re: Clouds [cul ] RE: Recurring movie thread, "Mona Lisa Smile" (NJC) [] RE: Recurring movie thread, "Mona Lisa Smile" (NJC) ["Richard Flynn" ] all this talk about beef. NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Beef? njc [colin ] Re: all this talk about beef. NJC [colin ] RE: Clouds ["Maggie McNally" ] Re: morning morgantown [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] re: graham nash photos exhibition sjc ["joe farrell" ] re: Beth Nielsen Chapman NJC ["Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: Beef? jlobello wrote: >Colin, >The point is that too many resources are spent fatting up cattle in feed lots >here in the states when the same resources (land, fertilizer, water) could be >used to feed the hungry in third world nations. > I used to believe the same. Then i dsicovered that the so called 3rd world food problems are not caused by lack of resources but by greed and politics both of their govts and ours. > And, Americans would be a far healthier >people for it. > There isn't anything intrinsically wrong with beef as far as haelth goes. However, eating less of most foods, mainly the carbs, would be more healthy. > >You are right about dogs. Dogs are carnivores. They are not equipped to handle >carbohydrates. Humans are omnivores meaning we can survive on just about >anything we eat. > Yes we can get by on almost anything-but not healthily. Whilst our bodies are better equipped to handle carbs, we should only use them in small amounts and are quite suited to only getting our carbs from veggies and small amounts of fruits. > >Total vegetarianism is a hard balancing act to follow. When I tried it several >years ago I got booted out of a vegan household (it's a funny story, I'll tell >you latter). > >I am not a vegetarian, but I probably eat only about 1/8 the meat that regular >American eat. I usually eat fish, chicken, occasionally pork and very rarely >beef (but sometimes a nice charcoal broiled rib-eye steak sure taste good ). > More or less how I eat. > I >eat lots of oatmeal, and brown rice, (both are complex carbohydrates) > comples or not, carbs such as these do cause our bodies problems. Insulin still has to be produced to deal with it. If one eats these, it best eaten justb once a day. The constant realease of insulin in our bodies to eat the high carb fiet most of us eat cause heart disease, cancers, diabetes, raised cholesterol. > beans >and lots of veggies and fruit. This time of year I eat lots of citrus with >tangerines topping the list (they are quite cheap and plentiful here). I cook >with plenty of olive oil. > With oils, it is best not to heat them too much as haeting causes them to oxidise and thus turns them from healthy to bad. AVOID like the plague trans fats and hydrogenated veg fat/oil. Hydrogenated oil/fat is really not good-it is a chemically created fat and not one that the body is equipped to handle. It causes far more problems than so called 'bad' fats, like butter. Butter and fat on meat is healthful despite the misconceptions about it ove the last 30 years. > I guess you could say I adhere to a Mediterranean >diet (see attached food pyramid). > The western food pyramid is upside down. > And, daily exercise is import here too. > yes but what we feed our bodies is crucial. > >I don't know if you caught it on earlier postings by me, but I am a fisherman, >and I also hunt birds (grouse, woodcock and turkeys)and small game (rabbits >and squirrels). > I woiuld have no difficulty doing this out of necessity. > Only if I was on >their menu would I be forced to defend myself. > I would too. > >Anyway, I ran out of steam and need to think about this a little more. >Jono > > There is plenty in this world to go around, for us all to eat well and have no one starving. However, the dark side of us cause the problems-greed, pride, lack of compassion, fear etc. I don't callt his human nature-I don't believe these are natural human traits but traits that come about thru fear. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:05:33 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: online listening, njc Ken wrote: > If you have the Windows Media Player check out the online staitions > there. There is quite a selection. > Under the Jazz section one I enjoy is Accu Radio All That Jazz -Gutar > Jazz. This is only a Net radio > station. If you don't happen to have this listed on your WMP it can also > be reached from. > http://accuradio.com/ Hi Ken, This link goes to a choice of style then it opens a window but I can't get it started. Pressing the "play" button does nothing. Also, at home I have XP and media player but it won't work either, saying that media player is incomplete. Any idea? Thanks Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:17:32 -0600 From: Kate Subject: Re: Clouds onlyJMDL Digest: > I was just reading from one of the articles in the Cafe that the album jacket > of Clouds shows the Saskatchewan River(?--I suppose), and depicts a local > hotel in Saskatoon(?). Anyone know the name of that hotel? Sometime this > summer I intend to drive up there just to see what kind of country this > incredible woman grew up in. I"m on digest, so I suppose this question will have been answered already, but in case of a miracle: it's the South Saskatchewan River, and the Bessborough Hotel (where Joni likes to stay; I think this is where her 'room with a view' in Face Lift is). You'll have to let me know when you're driving up to Saskratchyerass, maybe I'll come to the city and meet you for coffee and cheesecake. Kate of the North - -- http://xoetc.antville.org Who does she think she is Anaos Nin? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:31:12 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: i made it!!!!!!! njc after an endless series of exams and colloquia, i've finally been accepted as a qualified student for a graduate program in psychology at the museo social argentino in conjunction with the musee social de paris. not bad considering i have only a high school diploma. the examination process started on february 9 and finished an hour ago when i received the official letter of acceptance. all in all, it will take me about 5 years to get my phd, but i've managed to prove that i could skip all the undergraduate courses and go straight to the specialization in psychoanalysis. that means that i'll be NOT taking 49 (forty-nine!!!) courses and save me 5 years of schoolwork. i could never describe what these past few weeks have been like. i've had to take exams and write and defend impromptu papers on epistemology, jungian theory, freudian analysis, developmental psychology, statistics, languages, neurolinguistic programming, dora, hans, the wolf-man, the rat-man, ego this, id that, good breasts, bad breasts, transference, resistance. i've been waking up at 5:30 am everyday to go to university where at 7:30 i was given a work station, free internet and library access and a sealed envelope containing my question of the day. then i was on my own until 2:30 pm. at 3 pm the examination board read my work and at 6 pm i was called to defend my paper and answer all sorts of questions about WHATEVER crossed the examiners' minds. when i didn't know the answer to one of the questions i had to prove that i knew how to proceed to find the information, structure it and solve the problem. i was given a lot of credit for the diversity of my past work experience but boy, did i have to absolutely SWEAT IT! i'll start my academic life in about three weeks. now i'm going to bed to take a 36-hour nap. wally, who hasn't told anyone yet except you folks. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:36:38 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Two Grey Rooms Yes, Bob! She describes her search for a lyric in a short appearance before the song video on her compilation Come In From The Cold video. I fell in love with the song way before I knew the story. Ironically, I lived in a 2 room apartment in a divided mansion at the time... Steve At 12:51 AM 2/23/2004 EST, you wrote: >Hi, folks. I am now only 1 week behind on my posts. So, this old topic has >probably been clarified by. > >However, I recall clearly that Joni described the Two Grey Rooms story as >having come from a short story, which was one of a gay man - an aristocrat of >sorts - leaving his house to take a room where he could anonymously view his >ex-lover walking by. > >Sad story, beautiful song. > >Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:51:40 -0500 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: New Orleans ...and also speaking of Cajons...there was an article about them in the Boston Globe recently. Made me think of you, Paz, and of warm and rainy Jonifest nights. - -----Original Message----- From: Michael Paz [mailto:michael@thepazgroup.com] Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 10:03 AM To: LCStanley7@aol.com; levatorvelipalatini@yahoo.com Cc: Joni Digest Subject: Re: New Orleans Speaking of Cajon's I got my new one after Ashara Cajonnapped mine at the last fest. I had had that one for years and had beaten the crap out of it. I miss my old Cajon. Rasing new children is so hard. I am going to have to do a rescue mission this summer in NY and get my old Cajon back (it's ok Ashara I will bring you this new one for you to train. I was thinking I could fill him up with shrimp and ups it up there LOL). Paz > Jennifer wrote: > >> Hey everybody, >> I just got back from New Orleans! The first time I had ever been. > > Hi Jennifer! > > Wish I would have known you were going... I might have asked you to > pick up a cajon for me! > > Love, > Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:58:42 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Two Grey Rooms Here's Joni's explanation, from a 1994 interview:______________________________________________________________"Two Grey Rooms" on the last album, for instance, was a jam. It was one take with a live jam, and I threw on a sketch melody. I hadn't even thought of the melody. All I had was my chordal movement and instrumental piano piece and we jammed it up. So the melody that went onto tape was the birth of the melody. I very seldom capture that on tape. Usually by the time I come to tape, I've sung a wordless melody many, many times to the guitar part or the piano part. But in this case it was its birth and it came out like with vowels that were more common to French than English (sounds out) "long-dong," just the way -- well, I got attached to that and trying to find sonically the English that had those kind of vowels was difficult. And I thought at one point I'm going to have to write this in French, and my French isn't that good. That one took six or seven years. We recorded it for "Wild Things" and it came out on the last album. I finally found a story about a homosexual love story from a fellow from Fassbinder's crowd in Germany, a story of obsession, and when I read the story I think in Interview Magazine, I didn't think of it as making a song out of it, but it was a kind of a haunting story of obsession. And one day I was at the piano and singing this song again, and I suddenly realized that the modality, the romanticism of this melody and the romanticism, the overt romanticism of this unrequited love story were quite suitable to one another and I managed sonically to find -- to tell the story with the correct vowels and consonants. ____________________________________________________________ Read the whole interview at Les' reading room: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=583 Steve, I wonder if that "long-dong" lyric is what attractedyou to the song? LOL, sorry, couldn't resist. Bob NP: Let's Active, "Easy Does" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:17:10 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Two Grey Rooms Well, no, because the song came out before her description of it. However, if I had heard THAT description BEFORE I heard the actual song... ;-) Steve p.s. I could go into a lengthy sollyloquy about 'long-dongs', but I'll refrain... (hee hee) At 09:58 AM 2/23/2004 -0500, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >Here's Joni's explanation, from a 1994 interview:______________________________________________________________"Two Grey Rooms" on the last album, for instance, was a jam. It was one take with a live jam, and I threw on a sketch melody. I hadn't even thought of the melody. All I had was my chordal movement and instrumental piano piece and we jammed it up. So the melody that went onto tape was the birth of the melody. I very seldom capture that on tape. Usually by the time I come to tape, I've sung a wordless melody many, many times to the guitar part or the piano part. But in this case it was its birth and it came out like with vowels that were more common to French than English (sounds out) "long-dong," just the way -- well, I got attached to that and trying to find sonically the English that had those kind of vowels was difficult. And I thought at one point I'm going to have to write this in French, and my French isn't that good. That one took six or seven years. We recorded it for "Wild Things" and it came out on the last album. >I finally found a story about a homosexual love story from a fellow from Fassbinder's crowd in Germany, a story of obsession, and when I read the story I think in Interview Magazine, I didn't think of it as making a song out of it, but it was a kind of a haunting story of obsession. And one day I was at the piano and singing this song again, and I suddenly realized that the modality, the romanticism of this melody and the romanticism, the overt romanticism of this unrequited love story were quite suitable to one another and I managed sonically to find -- to tell the story with the correct vowels and consonants. ____________________________________________________________ >Read the whole interview at Les' reading room: >http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=583 >Steve, I wonder if that "long-dong" lyric is what attractedyou to the song? LOL, sorry, couldn't resist. >Bob >NP: Let's Active, "Easy Does" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:43:17 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: Re: Beef? Collin >I used to believe the same. Then I discovered that the so called 3rd world food problems are not caused by lack of resources but by greed and politics both of their govts and ours.< And who runs the governments? Multinational corporations, maybe, eh? I agreed. Greed is a major factor here. >There isn't anything intrinsically wrong with beef as far as health goes. However, eating less of most foods, mainly the carbs, would be more healthy.< Beef in its natural state maybe,--open range and grass feed without all the hormones added. In feed lot cattle are fed large amounts of corn which they are not equiped to handle. Cattle have been literally known to explode because they can not release the gas produced by the digestion of corn fast enough. Tubes have to be pushed down their throats into their stomachs to relieve this pressure. And what about BSE (bovine songeformis encephalitis). This scares the wits right out of me, and in itself gives me incentive for not touching another hamburger ever!! BSE is directly related to Crusfeld--Jacob disease in humans, and is not a very pleasant way to die. >There isn't anything intrinsically wrong with beef as far as health goes. However, eating less of most foods, mainly the carbs, would be more healthy.< Sounds to me that you are practitioner of the Atkins diet which in my opinion should only be used for rapid weight loss. That diet is very unhealthy! >complex or not, carbs such as these do cause our bodies problems. Insulin still has to be produced to deal with it. If one eats these, it best eaten justb once a day. The constant realease of insulin in our bodies to eat the high carb fiet most of us eat cause heart disease, cancers, diabetes, raised cholesterol.< A bowl of oatmeal in the morning does me right in more ways than one. I agree the key is is moderation. You should not take in more carbs than you can burn off. >With oils, it is best not to heat them too much as haeting causes them to oxidise and thus turns them from healthy to bad. AVOID like the plague trans fats and hydrogenated veg fat/oil. Hydrogenated oil/fat is really not good-it is a chemically created fat and not one that the body is equipped to handle.< One of my specialties is lipid biochemistry and it is true that transfatty acids need to be avoided. Cold pressed oils such as olive, and grape seed (flax seed) are far more healthful and have a better balance of omega 3 and omega 6 fatty acids. Most westerns don't have enough omega 3's in their diets. Omega 3's comtribute to better cardiovascular health by breaking up and preventing plaque buildup in the blood vessels. >It causes far more problems than so called 'bad' fats, like butter. Butter and fat on meat is healthful despite the misconceptions about it ove the last 30 years.< Better than trans-fatties, maybe. I still wouldn't be eating large quantities of these a day. Maybe I'd induge in them once a week. >There is plenty in this world to go around, for us all to eat well and have no one starving.< For now maybe. The fact remains that we are above "carrying capacity" for our environment and are headed for a crash if population controls are not implemented in western societies (or world wide for that matter). However, the dark side of us cause the problems-greed, pride, lack of compassion, fear etc. I don't callt his human nature-I don't believe these are natural human traits but traits that come about thru fear.< I agree. Jono ----- Original Message ----- From: colin To: jlobello Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 4:04 AM Subject: Re: Beef? jlobello wrote: Colin, The point is that too many resources are spent fatting up cattle in feed lots here in the states when the same resources (land, fertilizer, water) could be used to feed the hungry in third world nations.I used to believe the same. Then i dsicovered that the so called 3rd world food problems are not caused by lack of resources but by greed and politics both of their govts and ours. And, Americans would be a far healthier people for it.There isn't anything intrinsically wrong with beef as far as haelth goes. However, eating less of most foods, mainly the carbs, would be more healthy. You are right about dogs. Dogs are carnivores. They are not equipped to handle carbohydrates. Humans are omnivores meaning we can survive on just about anything we eat.There isn't anything intrinsically wrong with beef as far as haelth goes. However, eating less of most foods, mainly the carbs, would be more healthy. Total vegetarianism is a hard balancing act to follow. When I tried it several years ago I got booted out of a vegan household (it's a funny story, I'll tell you latter). I am not a vegetarian, but I probably eat only about 1/8 the meat that regular American eat. I usually eat fish, chicken, occasionally pork and very rarely beef (but sometimes a nice charcoal broiled rib-eye steak sure taste good ).More or less how I eat. I eat lots of oatmeal, and brown rice, (both are complex carbohydrates)comples or not, carbs such as these do cause our bodies problems. Insulin still has to be produced to deal with it. If one eats these, it best eaten justb once a day. The constant realease of insulin in our bodies to eat the high carb fiet most of us eat cause heart disease, cancers, diabetes, raised cholesterol. beans and lots of veggies and fruit. This time of year I eat lots of citrus with tangerines topping the list (they are quite cheap and plentiful here). I cook with plenty of olive oil.With oils, it is best not to heat them too much as haeting causes them to oxidise and thus turns them from healthy to bad. AVOID like the plague trans fats and hydrogenated veg fat/oil. Hydrogenated oil/fat is really not good-it is a chemically created fat and not one that the body is equipped to handle. It causes far more problems than so called 'bad' fats, like butter. Butter and fat on meat is healthful despite the misconceptions about it ove the last 30 years. I guess you could say I adhere to a Mediterranean diet (see attached food pyramid).The western food pyramid is upside down. And, daily exercise is import here too.yes but what we feed our bodies is crucial. I don't know if you caught it on earlier postings by me, but I am a fisherman, and I also hunt birds (grouse, woodcock and turkeys)and small game (rabbits and squirrels).I woiuld have no difficulty doing this out of necessity. Only if I was on their menu would I be forced to defend myself.I would too. Anyway, I ran out of steam and need to think about this a little more. Jono There is plenty in this world to go around, for us all to eat well and have no one starving. However, the dark side of us cause the problems-greed, pride, lack of compassion, fear etc. I don't callt his human nature-I don't believe these are natural human traits but traits that come about thru fear. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:08:36 -0300 From: "Caio Nehring" Subject: Re: Love of my soul: beyond lyrics " Welcome, Caio. It's great to have someone from Brazil > here - it just goes to show how universal Joni's music > and words are. > > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto" Thanks a lot, really. I've just read an article at jmdl library, (Ballad of the Rude Canadian by Spider Robinson http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=613 ) that gave me shivers all over and tears followed by rage . That's sad history, waiting 33 years to come out. But anyway, my point is: Joni's blast of rage & rudeness at Tim Hardin's concert has made undenyably clear 2 me that, besides being a godess of universal words & music & images, she's a woman of attitude. That's what i call unconditional universal love. This should be Universal, especially in our 2004 world. Action, straight from the heart, not only words. Thanks, Joni, and thanks Spider Robinson for reminding us that. Caio Np: Cherokee louise/Travelogue - ...tip of the huge iceberg... Anima/Milton Nascimento ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:38:51 -0500 From: cul Subject: Re: Clouds O Reine du Nord, Apologies! Gosh. I admit to traveling in S Sask the most where as you say flatness reigns supreme for the most part and I know the north, like manitoba, is an entirely different and beautiful universe of hills and lakes and trees, but most people don't get that far north in either province so I guess i was pretty much an idiot to leave that out. On the other hand. I wasn't meaning to disparage the south part at all in fact I love the prairies and lived there for about a decade, mostly in Manitoba. By empty, I meant no trees and few buildings to impede view of the horizon. Anyway, I stand humbled and chastized. cul ] Kate wrote: cul: As far as Saskatchewan itself goes it is unbelievably flat and empty with the broadest sky I have ever encountered. Saskatchewan is SO not flat and empty! Where did you travel? Yes, there are only one million people here -- is that what you mean by empty? But only the southern half of the province is flat, and even there you find the Qu'appelle Valley, the Moose Mountains, and the Cypress Hills. Central Saskatchewan, called the Parkland (as opposed to the Prairie in the south), has considerable trees and rolling land, although the once-prolific bush has been sadly cleared to make way for agricultural practices. The entire northern half of the province is covered with rivers, lakes, and trees until you get to the farthest northern points (tundra). Joni was raised in Maidstone and Saskatoon, both situated in the parkland. There is definitely flat flat land in Saskatchewan -- in the south, so treeless you can see forfriggingever -- but to paint the entire geography of the province as 'flat and empty' is evidence that you haven't seen it all. It is a common misconception, as tourists often travel the Transcanada Highway (the #1 which crosses the entire country), which goes east-west through the prairie in the south of the province. Try going south-north and you'll change your tune. I *think*. You won't see the Grand Canyon or the Rocky Mountains, but there is some pretty interesting landscape. I will try to post some magazine pictures to my web page as evidence. Unfortunately they are small and I may not be able to re-size them, but I'll see what I can do later today. In the meantime, if you poke around the journal a bit, you should come across some photos taken on both the east and west sides of Saskatoon that demonstrate there is more to the land than flatness. Not that there's anything wrong with flatness. It's just an inaccurate description when used to describe the entire province. You're right about the sky. We have the most incredible sunsets, something to do with the airstream and what it does with clouds and such. And filled with migratory birds in astounding numbers, as we (particularly where I live, two hours east of Saskatoon) are on their major flight path. One downside is that the province is cursed with a high degree of prejudice against the native population (which caused me to get into a screaming match with a city bus driver in Saskatoon at one point). Good for you. I agree, there is a lot of subtle and overt prejudice against natives in this province. It works both ways, of course. They are equally prejudiced against white people I think, whether their reasons for that are justified or not. There is such a divide between the cultures, and because of the social problems of the native people they are seen by whites as untrustworthy, violent, lazy, etc. It is a negative stereotype for sure, and unfair to the majority. Prisons and correctional centres and yes, courtrooms, are filled with native people in numbers that don't correspond to their overall population. They have serious problems to overcome; and white people here often observe that chronic criminal behaviour doesn't seem to be dealt with very effectively by the law, as repeat offenses are common. I don't know as much about all that as I'd like to, so can't claim any expertise, but am trying to offer a bit of the attitudinal flavour I pick up from other non-native Saskatchewaners. Prejudice does keep the white and native communities somewhat apart perhaps, but there is also a lot of interaction, especially in the smaller places, that you might not so readily see in the two larger cities in Saskatchewan. Kate du Nord -- http://xoetc.antville.org Who does she think she is ‹ Anaos Nin? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:39:43 -0600 From: Subject: RE: Recurring movie thread, "Mona Lisa Smile" (NJC) Lamadoo wrote: "I delivered prescriptions in 1970 and "The Pill" was brand new." Actually--and forgive me if someone's already posted on this--the movie was off by a few years, but pretty close to accurate with the "pill" reference. Weren't birth control pills released on the market in the early 60's? Weren't they a large part of what made the so-called "sexual revolution" of the 60's possible? And (that all-important question): when did Loretta Lynn's song "The Pill" come out?? In any event, I imagine that the song release was years after birth control pills had been available and part of popular culture. Mary, who shuffles out of lurkdom occasionally to post on the STRANGEST things. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:47:17 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: London calling (NJC) I will be in London in April and would love to get together with some JMDLers for a drink or two! :>) Also, if anyone would like to recommend things to see and do, I would appreciate it! Please e-mail me privately. Thanks! Kerry (who is currently plodding through the 5 million London hotel websites!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:03:25 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Recurring movie thread, "Mona Lisa Smile" (NJC) The first oral contraceptive, Envoid, received FDA aspproval in 1960. But the news of the pill was public knowledge by 1956. As early as 1957 the pill was being prescribed for severe menstrual disorders. Many women, however, used it for contraception (by late 1959, over half a million of them). So it may not be an anachronism in the movie (which I haven't seen). See web page for PBS show on the Pill: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/pill/ - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of blckcrow@chorus.net Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 11:40 AM To: jlamadoo@fuse.net; joni@smoe.org Cc: blckcrow@chorus.net Subject: RE: Recurring movie thread, "Mona Lisa Smile" (NJC) Lamadoo wrote: "I delivered prescriptions in 1970 and "The Pill" was brand new." Actually--and forgive me if someone's already posted on this--the movie was off by a few years, but pretty close to accurate with the "pill" reference. Weren't birth control pills released on the market in the early 60's? Weren't they a large part of what made the so-called "sexual revolution" of the 60's possible? And (that all-important question): when did Loretta Lynn's song "The Pill" come out?? In any event, I imagine that the song release was years after birth control pills had been available and part of popular culture. Mary, who shuffles out of lurkdom occasionally to post on the STRANGEST things. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:17:24 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: njc All, I wish someone would have told me about "njc" and "sjc" sooner. I was wondering what the hell they meant. Sometimes us newbies take a while to catch on. jono ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:05:51 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: all this talk about beef. NJC Hi all!! All this talk about beef and carbs..Atkins..I agree with what Colin says on the subject. When you start out what has become known as the Atkins diet..yes..it's a lot of protein..fat..MEAT. But that is during the induction phase only. Once you settle in and can add more veggies..complex carbs, it really is a sensible way to eat. I don't feel so bogged down as I do with a carb laden meal. For me it has become a way of life..not a diet. I sort of cheat a lot: Okay..bacon is a staple if you so desire. And after the induction you can have a little peanut butter..if not loaded with sugar. Now on the market ..low-carb bread. SO a treat for me is a bacon and peanut butter sandwich on low-carb bread. This is one of my very favorite sandwiches. And in my pre-Atkins days I would have this sandwhich expect the bread would be the full carb type. (and for the daring ..a little slice of avacado..not so daring..lettuce) My point is that you can have foods that really make you feel like you are cheating but aren't. But the bottom line is no one else knows their body like the person themselves..so whatever works and makes you feel better. Bree NP: Steely Dan..Aja.. _________________________________________________________________ Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:38:14 -0500 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: Maria Muldaur, Wendy Waldman - and Joni? Azeem - I used to own this album, but don't know if I still do. I'll have to look in the cabinet when I get home. But I do know the song you refer to (Mad, Mad Me). I cannot think of what song you are thinking of. I reminds me of Roberta Flack or that light-jazzy husband and wife duo where he plays guitar and she sings (oh lordy, cannot remember their name), maybe, but Joni? If you think of it (or anyone else does) I'm dying to know. As for Wendy Waldman, I remember her as a singer-songwriter from the early to mid-70s, but a net search reveals she's still going. Here is the link to her website bio. http://www.wendywaldman.com/biograph.html Enjoy! Maggie - -----Original Message----- From: AzeemAK@aol.com [mailto:AzeemAK@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 1:49 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Maria Muldaur, Wendy Waldman - and Joni? Me again. And I think this just about counts as JC. I've been listening to Maria's self-titled album (which I love, love, love); as it's on scratchy vinyl, I don't listen to it very often, and when it got to the last song, Mad Mad Me, I suddenly had a jolt - was I listening to a Joni cover that had nestled unnoticed in my collection? Does anyone else know this song, and can anyone tell me which Joni song it reminds me of? I just can't put my finger on it! It's written by Wendy Waldman, about whom I know precisely nothing. In any case, I heartily recommend the album to one and all - Maria's voice is sly, sexy, slinky, supple and other words that don't begin with 's'. Beautiful covers of Dolly Parton, Mac Rebennack and the McGarrigles, wonderful arrangements, superb musicianship, and Amos Garrett's imperishable guitar solo on Midnight At The Oasis. What's not to like? Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:47:55 +0000 From: "Patricia Parlette" Subject: morning morgantown Hi again loves! Hell, those were wonderful and insightful interpretions! Thanks for giving us more to think about when we listen to HOSL. It really is my favorite these days, but then again I love them all, although I must confess that I don't know a lot of her "new stuff", i.e., post-Mingus. (I know, I know -- shame on me!!!! But I'll get to them, I promise, because life is for learning!) I am re-discovering a lot of Joni's music now that I have no child(ren) to raise, and it's so much fun doing it with new life perspectives and experiences. For instance, when I listen to Morning Morgantown now, I have a picture of Richard Scarry's "Busytown" in my mind: "the milk truck makes its morning rounds.....", "colored stop and go lights flashing..." Are any of you familiar with his work? "Busytown", and "The Best Word Book Ever"? (I had a great tri-lingual edition that we loved -- English, French and German.) It's wonderful stuff for little kids -- and grown-ups, too. Now I wish I had played Morning Morgantown while I my little boys and I cuddled on the couch together while we caroused through "Busytown". It would've have made a more complete experience for them, and maybe they'd appreciate Joni now that they are older. Now all they do is tease me about Joni. Maybe someday they'll "get it", but for now, I do have regrets, Coyotes, for not connecting "Busytown" to "Morgantown" when they were little. Oh, well -- there's always grandchildren, right Vince? Peace, Patti (one of the newbies) _________________________________________________________________ Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:48:46 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Beef? njc jlobello wrote: > > Beef in its natural state maybe,--open range and grass feed without > all the hormones added. In feed lot cattle are fed large amounts of > corn which they are not equiped to handle. Cattle have been literally > known to explode because they can not release the gas produced by the > digestion of corn fast enough. Tubes have to be pushed down their > throats into their stomachs to relieve this pressure. yes the way we rasie animals is wrong. > And what about BSE (bovine songeformis encephalitis). This scares the > wits right out of me, and in itself gives me incentive for not > touching another hamburger ever!! BSE is directly related to > Crusfeld--Jacob disease in humans, and is not a very pleasant way to die. another example of bad practice. > > > Sounds to me that you are practitioner of the Atkins diet which in my > opinion should only be used for rapid weight loss. No it should not. It is not a rapid way to lose weight. > That diet is very unhealthy! The scientific evidence is against you here. To be honest, there is so much ignorance about Atkins that it is laughable. Those that trash it don;t even know the way of eating and certainly have not kept up to date on the scientific facts. What is so healthful about straches such as bread, potatoes and pasta and sugar that we are unhelathy without it? How did humankind manage to survive till the last century on a low carb diet ? > > >complex or not, carbs such as these do cause our bodies problems. > Insulin still has to be produced to deal with it. If one eats these, > it best eaten justb once a day. The constant realease of insulin in > our bodies to eat the high carb fiet most of us eat cause heart > disease, cancers, diabetes, raised cholesterol.< > > A bowl of oatmeal in the morning does me right in more ways than one. > I agree the key is is moderation. You should not take in more carbs > than you can burn off. You are lucky. It also rather depends on your age. The older one gets the more likely one is to start developing problems associated with carbs and insulin release. One does not have to be overweight or overindulge for didseases assocaited with insulin to become a problem. > > > > >It causes far more problems than so called 'bad' fats, like butter. > Butter and fat on meat is healthful despite the misconceptions about > it ove the last 30 years.< > > Better than trans-fatties, maybe. I still wouldn't be eating large > quantities of these a day. Maybe I'd induge in them once a week. There is no need to eat large quantaties of them every day. Do you know anyone who eats a pack ogf butter of a day? There just is no need to cut it out and no need to only eat it one day in seven. > > > > For now maybe. The fact remains that we are above "carrying capacity" > for our environment and are headed for a crash if population controls > are not implemented in western societies (or world wide for that matter). this is a diffiuclt one. who do we decide should not breed? Or do we volunteer to give up our own rights to consume? Do we have euthanasia centres? Do we stop doing so much to keep people alive? Stop doing so much to bring babies to the infertile? Select only a few to breed? Of a particular sort? Only the intellectuals? Only the artists? Only the blue collar workers? ( i do know you have not suggested any of thes ethings but they do come to mind when one starts to discuss population control. And population control is a natural thing to come to mind when one looks at the world-if one cannot see another way. I think, perhaps, the less opulation would not mean less consuming-it would probably mean less people consuming more and thus the earth would still be in danger as it is now). > - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:51:58 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: all this talk about beef. NJC Bree Mcdonough wrote: > Hi all!! > > > > > For me it has become a way of life..not a diet. > as it is for me and most people who go low carb. i don't even think of my weight, despite the weight loss, and never feel like i am on a diet. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:52:48 -0500 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: Clouds Breaking all sorts of personal records today for posting, but I felt moved to respond to this and so work must wait. Two of the songs you mention in your post, Jono, have such deep meaning for me. Both I Don't Know Where I Stand and I Think I Understand were part and parcel of my falling in love in 1970 when I was 18 and falling - hard - for a man who became my partner of nine years. It was the first of many times that Joni's words and music created a soundtrack, becoming intertwined with my life's memories. Her ability to capture pure feelings, distilling and transforming their facets like some kind of coal to diamond is what caught me and kept me all these years. Maggie - -----Original Message----- From: jlobello [mailto:jlobello@famvid.com] Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 12:56 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Clouds All, A few weeks ago I bought both Clouds and STAS. STAS blew me away immediately. At the time I said that Clouds seemed "darker" to me. I have since listened to it several times and here are my three top choices besides Chelsea Morning (which is the brightest song on the album) and Both Side Now which is ubiquitous (universal). 1. That Song About The Midway 2. The Gallery and 3. I Don't Know Where I Stand. Oh, and 4. I Think I Understand. Of course, I'll be listening to it somemore and gain a better understanding of all the songs. I was just reading from one of the articles in the Cafe that the album jacket of Clouds shows the Saskatchewan River(?--I suppose), and depicts a local hotel in Saskatoon(?). Anyone know the name of that hotel? Sometime this summer I intend to drive up there just to see what kind of country this incredible woman grew up in. Jono ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:18:28 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: morning morgantown Hi Patti, I used to enjoy reading Richard Scarry's books to my son. His favorite book of all time when he was little was "Cars & Trucks & Things That Go". We read it so many times that I actually memorized it! (from memory) "Ma & Pa & Penny & Pickles are going to the beach for a picnic...here comes Ma with the picnic basket- please hurry up, Ma! First, Pa has some shopping to do..." and so on, and so on. It came in handy when I had to drive, because I could drive and read a book to my son at the same time. And we reada ton of his books, all about Lowly Worm and Huckle Cat and all those characters. The neat thing about his books is that they are so interactive. You can talk with your child for half an hour about each page because they are so busy! Anyway, on to Morning Morgantown...a lovely song. I've come to believe that it was a "fantasy" song that Joni wrote, imagining her & her daughter enjoying a lovely spring morning in a quaint town. I'd like to buy you everything A wooden bird with painted wings A window full of colored rings In morning Morgantown But the only thing I have to give To make you smile, to win you with Are all the mornings still to live In morning Morgantown I feel like she's saying that she can no longer giver her child any of the toys and childhood pleasantries, but rather in giving her up for adoption she's at least given her happy mornings in a lovely town somewhere. And it's been covered at least 7 times, not too bad considering it was never released as a single. Bob NP: Limblifter, "Beard of Bees" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:42:34 -0000 From: "joe farrell" Subject: re: graham nash photos exhibition sjc There is to be an exhibition of Graham Nash's music photography, called "From Eye To Eye" in Manchester UK, my home city, from 12 March to 24 April. It will be held at the Richard Goodall Gallery and "the show includes images of Johnny Cash, Joni Mitchell and Neil Young". I just got to be there! More info available at www.richard-goodallgallery.com and www.nasheditions.com. Regards, Joe. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:33:03 -0800 (PST) From: Catgirl Subject: Re: all this talk about beef. NJC I have not had a peice of bacon in over 15 years. I gave that up befor I gave up the chicken. Pigs are smarter then dogs and to think the poor life they live, I could ne ver eat them. I would one day like to have one as a pet. I live near Hatfield Meat Packing and they KILL over 70,000 female pigs a day. It is so sad. I beleive everything in moderation and cheese does not have alot of carbs in it nor does any animal die from the making of cheese. And TOFU, yet again there are so many tofu choices. If you have never tried tofu then you might want to take a plunge and try it. If you buy at the groceries, get Tofu Mate and use that with the tofu. It makes the tofu YUMMY! Debi Bree Mcdonough wrote: Hi all!! All this talk about beef and carbs..Atkins..I agree with what Colin says on the subject. When you start out what has become known as the Atkins diet..yes..it's a lot of protein..fat..MEAT. But that is during the induction phase only. Once you settle in and can add more veggies..complex carbs, it really is a sensible way to eat. I don't feel so bogged down as I do with a carb laden meal. For me it has become a way of life..not a diet. I sort of cheat a lot: Okay..bacon is a staple if you so desire. And after the induction you can have a little peanut butter..if not loaded with sugar. Now on the market ..low-carb bread. SO a treat for me is a bacon and peanut butter sandwich on low-carb bread. This is one of my very favorite sandwiches. And in my pre-Atkins days I would have this sandwhich expect the bread would be the full carb type. (and for the daring ..a little slice of avacado..not so daring..lettuce) My point is that you can have foods that really make you feel like you are cheating but aren't. But the bottom line is no one else knows their body like the person themselves..so whatever works and makes you feel better. Bree NP: Steely Dan..Aja.. _________________________________________________________________ Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ *It's all a dream, she has awoke* Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:47:47 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: re: Beth Nielsen Chapman NJC Hi Catherine! I love Beth Nielsen Chapman as well! She wrote and recorded a song called "Harbor of Each Other's Arms" that absolutely adore I remember part of the chorus: "All I have, is all I need And it all comes down to you and me... How precious * **** **** (** this world become?) In the Harbor of each other's arms....." I love it!!!! I agree with 100% about her voice and who it reminds you of. Beth also had a top 40 hit whose title I can't remember but the melody and beat were very unique. I'm glad she is still performing and that she is a survivor. Sherelle Catherine wrote: Last night I saw Beth Nielsen Chapman at Hugh's Room here in Toronto with a couple of friends. I wasn't all that familiar with her work, but one of her songs had been used as an example in a songwriting seminar I went on back in the fall with one of the same friends I saw her with last night. I was absolutely blown away by this woman. She is an amazingly versatile singer with a beautiful voice (sounds to me, a bit like Jennifer Warnes), who writes lovely music with very touching, very human and very heartfelt lyrics and not a bit of bullshit. She is also an excellent guitarist and piano player... who doesn't read music and "writes" all her songs by recording them as she works them out. Performing with her was her son, Ernest Chapman, who is about 23 or so and looks a lot like her, and a guy by the name of John Raguzzo (I think that's his last name) on wind instruments of all kinds (flutes, piccolos, trumpet and conch shell - who would believe you could get so many tones out of a shell!) _________________________________________________________________ Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:01:09 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE: New Orleans or Roatan or Cancun Paz my friend, If there is any way I can get to a Caribbean Jonifest, I will do it in a heartbeat. This is going to sound crazy but I actually thought about how great it would be to be around a bonfire singing "Dreamland" just the way Joni did it on "Shadows and Light" the other day. We were talking about the "Tape of You" thread and the thought crossed my mind. Unbelieveable! My preference would be the Caribbean. You are teh dream weaver Paz! Love, Sherelle Paz wrote, >As you may know I made a tearful statement at one point that weekend that I >would never do it again, but never say never right? I HAVE been flirting with >the first Caribbean Jonifest ever. _________________________________________________________________ Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #84 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)