From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #80 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, February 20 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 080 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Go ask Alice (njc) ["kakki" ] Ravioli Curls [Gordon Mackie ] Re: in trouble again njc [colin ] Re: Posall and Mosalm [Deb Messling ] Re: Posall and Mosalm [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Raving curls ["Sherelle Smith" ] online listening [Kate ] RE: Raving curls, now "A Tape Of You" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: CSN content, njc [Catgirl ] Re: online listening [Ken ] Re: Cd ["jlobello" ] Re: Tickets NJC; now Rufus, Joni and Leonard Cohen [Richard Goldma] Re: Cd [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: njc, New Orleans ["Lori Fye" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #49 [Michael Sahno ] interrupting my sorrow ["Patricia Parlette" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #49, ebay and early stuff [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: interrupting my sorrow ["hell" ] Re: interrupting my sorrow [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: interrupting my sorrow ["hell" ] Re: interrupting my sorrow [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: interrupting my sorrow [Emiliano ] Joni vs. Jewel, njc now ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: interrupting my sorrow ["hell" ] interrupting my sorrow, njc now [Emiliano ] RE: Joni vs. Jewel, njc now ["anon anon" ] NJC - jackson browne [Jane ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:00:55 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Go ask Alice (njc) I made it over to see Grace Slick's painting exhibit tonight and it was fantastic. I walked in and there was Grace with a big, long ponytail as snow white as a rabbit. Her eyes are so striking - like big, sparkling 10 carat sapphires and she is, like Joni, much more beautiful in person than photos usually convey. Very early Jefferson Airplane music was playing in the background. She was talking to a few people, telling stories and sounding just as open and slightly bawdy as I'd imagined her. I heard a few F and A***h*** words right off the bat ;-) Her tough girl exterior is belied, however, by her paintings which are imbued with such great whimsy and sensitivity that you immediately sense that under the bluff she is a very soft and loving, maybe even a bit fragile, soul. I was totally captured by them. She is self-taught and works with several different media and is, in my opinion, very accomplished. Most of the paintings were accompanied by her own written narrative and the descriptions placed with beautiful paintings of Janis Joplin, Jerry Garcia and Jim Morrison were so heartfelt and insightful - it was if she truly knew their essences on a deep level. She had two reps there and one was a clone of JA bassist Jack Casady! The other rep spoke to me quite a lot and related that Grace's favorite children's story was Alice in Wonderland because Alice represented an independent girl who found her own way in her own world, unlike Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty and the others who had to find their prince for their life to begin. There were an assortment of white rabbit paintings in different incarnations. My favorite painting (that almost had me parting with my credit card) was a view of the Golden Gate bridge from the sea cliff western side and on the beach there was a tiny white rabbit riding a tricycle. I didn't recognize any celebs, but did see that she likes to take her smoke breaks just like someone else we know ;-) I was very impressed with both her and her work. Speaking of Janis Joplin, I also met a rep from the Limelight Agency, who distributes the paintings of Ron Wood and other celebs and she told me that they are in the process of collecting paintings and art done by Janis between the ages of 13 and 19! There is always a new surprise out there. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:20:14 +0000 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Ravioli Curls Hi all...hey and its a happy Friday too. Maybe I'm way too cynical this morning but here goes.... ravioli sounds a bit likie 'raving'. Perhaps Joni meant their hair was like pasta...oh and raving nonsense is a term !. Raving is a a real word folks...its in the dicitionary. Cheerio Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:15:03 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: in trouble again njc Deb Messling wrote: >Theft of chickens????? > > > > > supposedly a hen and a cock have been stolen.........I know i feed my dogs a raw natural diet but that would be going too far...they wouldn't know what to do with all the feathers.... John ois coming back early and we have the police coming again today for a talk with us and neighbours....it seems we have caught this person out....my neighbours ahve been harrassed by a car and people taking pics since before Xmas and when they told me this they mentioned the car make and colur and that is the car this mad person drives...they had even given the police the reg....so if they can prove it is her car it would show that her complaint is false. Whlsit we cannot prove either way if she did the car damage, they should at least warn her off. We are going to have a security light put up over the car. Life can be full of surprises...some not so nice. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:08:59 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Posall and Mosalm I have that old (bootleg) LP, and the sound quality is pretty dreadful. All those songs are widely available from list members for far less than $147 - like, say, for blanks and postage. The cover you describe sounds like something that appeared in a Stereo Review article. I don't think Joni did it. See the link below for the image: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=7 At 12:55 AM 2/20/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Here's something that I found on e-bay tonight. What can you tell me about >it. >Joni Mitchell >The Posall and Mosalm > >It had a drawing of a caricaturized naked Joni taking an apple from the >snake on the jacket cover >.---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:22:31 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Posall and Mosalm Ditto to what Deb said - I got this LP and was going to burn it to cd, just to have it, but the sound was so scratchy & muffled, and the recordings were made available on tape trees earlier in better form, that I decided against it. I'm sure it won't stay on ebay long - they never do. Bob NP: The Mojave 3, "Between The Bars" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:31:14 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE: Raving curls Hi Wally! I believe I did have the answer but I must have known more then than I do now! (Smile) It's funny because I just saw an ad for the product just a few days ago!It's still going strong! I keep singing this song in my head, I am going to have to put on HOSL right away! Oh Wally, I remember that tape! You are going to make me go back and dig it to listen to it! I lvoe that tape because everyone who contributed to it made such heartfelt recordings. I remember not having a tape recorder and feeling so sad that I couldn't contribute. Julie Z Webb actually mailed a small pocket recorder to me to borrow so that I could get on the compilation tape. Then on top of that, I fell very ill and had horrible laryngitis. Everytime I tried to sing, I kept squeaking! I wanted to be on that tape more than anythng and I was so scared my voice wouldn't come back in time. I recorded the song in my bathroom (the best acoustics in the world) and when both songs, Dreamland and Edith and the Kingpin were completed, it was the best feeling in the world. I will never forget the experience of making that dream a reality and I thank Julie from the bottom of my heart for making that happen for me. I have such nostalgic feelings about that time on the JMDL because Wally Breese was still alive and our hearts were alive with the hope of Joni jumping in on the discussion list. We were so smitten with Les because of his vision which created the JMDL and Wally Breese because of his vision with Joni's website. They were both our heros. Our hearts wanted so much to reach out to Joni and tell her how much we loved her and her music. I don't think she had started performing again, so everyone constantly shared memories of her past concerts. (One of my music friends in Ohio actually went to see one of her Shadows and Light concerts that was recorded) It was so thrilling to hear about someone's "Joni moment". We were all like starry eyed children and we drank in every word of every story. Many of us realized that we didn't have to just be dreamers. We could be doers. I can never underestimate what impact this list has had on my life and trust me Wally, you won't be able to get rid of me easily! My heart and soul is tied up in this group and because of you, I am singing. In fact, a lot of us are singing. A toast and cheers to the JMDL! Love, Sherelle >From: "Wally Kairuz" >To: "Sherelle Smith" >CC: >Subject: RE: Raving curls >Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:50:55 -0300 > >sherelle, >i remember the first time this question came up, you had the answer. am i >imagining things??? i was also confused how someone could raveen curls. >oxymoron. >incidentally, remember when we did that tape for joni centuries ago? i >always loved your version of dreamland. i was on that tape too! so when >you're even more famous, don't forget i was on a compilation with you :-) >wally > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > > Sherelle Smith > > Enviado el: Jueves, 19 de Febrero de 2004 05:47 p.m. > > Para: emilianopd@mundo-r.com > > CC: joni@smoe.org > > Asunto: RE: Raving curls > > > > > > I'm a little late but I am here! > > > > Raveen is a hair processing product that African American women used to > > chemically straighten our hair. I've always been struck by the > > term, "Raveen > > curls" because as far as I always understood. The product only > > straightened > > the hair and did not curl it like many perm kits for non-African >American > > hair. I've never used this particular product so I don't know for > > sure, but > > I do use a similar chemical straightener. The "curls" are > > something I have > > to do with a good old fashioned curling iron! Hope that helps! > > > > Sherelle > > > > >dylan, > > > > >she may be referring to a hair care product called (i think) "raveen". > > > > >sherelle used to know the answer to this question. sherelle? you > > > > >there? wally > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get a FREE online virus check for your PC here, from McAfee. > > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:40:10 -0600 From: Kate Subject: online listening onlyJMDL Digest: > Laurent Olszer asked: > >> Now that I've got adsl at home, can anybody please >> recommend some cool radio stations that are on line? http://www.ckua.org hope this link still works; it's out of Edmonton Alberta and was a fantastic radio station when I lived in that area over a year ago; so good that it weaned me off CBC talk radio programs, which I was addicted to. CKUA was so good I didn't dare miss it. Kate of the North ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:48:26 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: RE: Raving curls, now "A Tape Of You" "Oh Wally, I remember that tape! You are going to make me go back and dig it to listen to it! I love that tape because everyone who contributed to it made such heartfelt recordings." FWIW I've transferred the 2-tape set to a 2-CD set. I don't listen to it a lot but it is very heartwarming as you say. Of course it also contains Wally Breese's version of BSN which is of course very touching, especially now. I never knew Lori Century but her recordings are fantastic. I wish she had professionally released them. Plus it contains Bryan Thomas' electrifying studio version of 'Black Crow' (perhaps my favorite take on that song) as well as Chuck E's classic lounge version of "Rainy Night House"! Bob NP: Mark Kozolek, "Find Me, Reuben Olivares" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:35:44 -0800 (PST) From: Catgirl Subject: RE: CSN content, njc I have that CD. I think it is one of David's best. Every song is great. I had no idea that Michael Hedges appeared on that. I now will have to go to my storage locker, find it, listen to it and confirm via the packaging that in fact Michael is on it. And Yes, My Country Tis of Thee is the last track on the CD. I also love the title track. My friend David had the CD and when he died (suicide) I got that CD. My friend sang just like David Crosby so it meant alot to me to have the CD. All the Best, Debi "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: My memory is definitely failing. "My Country Tis Of Thee" is the last track on Crosby's 'OH YES I CAN'. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu *It's all a dream, she has awoke* Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:11:27 -0500 From: Ken Subject: Re: online listening If you have the Windows Media Player check out the online staitions there. There is quite a selection. Under the Jazz section one I enjoy is Accu Radio All That Jazz -Gutar Jazz. This is only a Net radio station. If you don't happen to have this listed on your WMP it can also be reached from. http://accuradio.com/ At the bottom of the page are links to the diffent stations. From there you can clic "All That Jazz" or one of the many others then try the "sub channels" Another station I enjoy is.Cool Fm http://www.canada.com/entertainment/features/cooljazz/index.html Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:30:33 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: Re: Cd Bob, I like jazz too. Here's a thought. Wouldn't it be neat to hear Joni on Mariam McPartland's Piano Jazz show. I've I already floated this idea to them (and Mari) at their website via e-mail. Jono - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ""jlobello"" Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: Re: Cd > Trouble Man - is from Kyle Eastwood's "From There to Here". It's a nice jazz cd from start to finish. Joni of course did Trouble Man in concert on her '98 and '00 tours, so lots of live versions exist as well. > > The Man I Love, Summertime - are from Herbie Hancock's "Gershwin's World" his salute and re-invention of the music of George Gershwin. Stevie Wonder and many others join in, along with these two stellar Joni vocals. She also did Summertime live in the "Day In The Garden" concert in August '98. > > Steadfast - is taken from Brian Blade's "Perceptual", also an excellent recording from start to finish. Very dark, moody, and ethereal. I love Joni's haunting vocal on this track and wish she'd enlist Daniel Lanois and do a whole album like this. > > All of these CD's are still in print and many can be found used at pretty low prices. > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:51:08 -0800 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Re: Tickets NJC; now Rufus, Joni and Leonard Cohen Garret, The only word I've heard so far, is that Rufus and extended family are doing the Leonard Cohen tribute at the Royal Festival Hall, MAY 24... the tickets are already on sale on the RFH website: search for Rufus. There is rumor he will perform a few solo dates around the UK, or Europe close to that time, but nothing definite yet. Keep your eyes peeled. Check his website/tour page. Also... 3 nights ago, in Columbus Ohio, Rufus performed (he's on tour in the US), Hallelujah (it's been on the setlist at every show so far). After the song that night, he said something about Joni Mithchell. So far no one who was there has been able to completely quote what Rufus said, or the context or connection. So I'm wondering if anyone on here knows what the connection between Joni and Leonard is/was? I know she painted his portrait, and that's about all I know. Any help would be appreciated. Richard n.p. The Space Between, Zero 7, from forthcoming album "When It Falls": KCRW.org, Morning Becomes Ecclectic >Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:33:05 +0000 >From: Garret >Subject: Tickets NJC > >I just went and booked tickets to see Patti Smith in london on March 17th (St >Patrick's Day!!) and a poetry evening on March 18th; then i got >carried away and >booked Cher tickets too! patti tickets fairly reasonable ('cept that i's >a-buying for two). >Think i'll be hungry before the next paycheque comes through the door, lol. > >Im gonna try get tickets for Rufus Wainwright too. Anyone else goihng to that? >NOt sure where thats on; can anyone send me a URL? > >Will he be doing an actual Rufus gig in/around London does anyone >know? OR jsut >the Cohen tribute with Kate and Anna? (not that i mind.... that would be cool >too!) > >Im pretty excited (too excited to work on my stupid essay now!! >lordy), and NOT >going to check the bank balance... cant be good news:-) >GARRET > >np - Bette Midler, Shiver Me Timbers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:56:22 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Cd That would be muy splendid!! I love that show, and Joni would be a natural. Speaking of Joni & piano, I got a cover of "How Do You Stop" this week where it's just vocals & piano, and it sounds great. Makes me wish Joni had done it this way as well. Bob NP: Lenny Kravitz, "Fear" PS: Be careful about taking a post sent to you privately and re-sending it to the list. Generally considered a no-no. Luckily I didn't say anything that would get me in trouble! :~) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:58:35 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: njc, New Orleans Speaking of New Orleans ... yes, I'm still looking for donations for the AIDS Marathon! I'll be running the 1/2 marathon in New Orleans on Sunday, February 29, along with a couple hundred other runners from the DC chapter of the National AIDS Marathon Training Program. The Clinic (http://www.wwc.org/about_wwc/mission.html) is the primary provider of services for HIV/AIDS-affected persons in DC, Maryland, and Virginia. HIV statistics in DC are downright frightening (http://www.wwc.org/hiv_aids_services/statistics.html). If you find a few dollars under the sofa cushions, I'll be happy to take them off your hands! : ) You can donate online via secure server at http://www.aidsmarathon.com/participant.asp?runner=DC-3152, or you can do snail mail or fax using this form: http://lrfye.lunarpages.com/donorform.pdf The Mardi Gras Marathon (http://www.mardigrasmarathon.com) is a big event that draws thousands of runners for all sorts of charities, as well as runners who are trying to qualify for events like the Boston Marathon. I'll actually be in town from about noon on Friday (2/27) through noon on Monday (3/1), and "Texas Tush" Donna will be hangin' with me! We plan to pester the Paz-Man and do some serious partying. If any of the rest of y'all will be in or near NOLA, let me know! I can usually be reached on my cell phone at 202-390-0170. Thanks to all of you for reading and considering! Lori (aka "the links queen"), looking forward to dem oysters and crawdaddys ... : ) ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:40:09 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Sahno Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #49 Hi all, I am new here and it's nice to see this group out there discussing the work of the greatest female songwriter of the 20th century! But wow, bummer that somebody on ebay is profiting off Joni's music, particularly unreleased material. I have a tape that has a bunch of those songs (London Bridge, Joni's Coke Commercial, Eastern Rain, Brandy Eyes), and in fact, have been looking for sometime for a CD trader who has those...without success. If anyone has material from that era on CD, please let me know. Again, nice to be here. Mike P.S. If people in the group are so inclined, ebay can be notified that an item is an illegal bootleg and they will force the person to pull the item. It might also be worthwhile to email the seller and let them know that this material is copyrighted and that selling bootlegs on the internet is morally questionable at best. ;) - --- onlyJMDL Digest wrote: Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:55:23 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: Posall and Mosalm Bob, Here's something that I found on e-bay tonight. What can you tell me about it. Joni Mitchell The Posall and Mosalm Songs: The Circle Game with Chuck Mitchell, London Bridge, Joni's Coke Commercial, Eastern Rain, Just like Me, The Bagel Game, The Posall and Mosalm, Canadian Mythology, Brandy Eyes, Drummer Man, Winter Lady, Mr. Blue, Urge for Going, Quenn (or Queen?) Siquomb, Approximately, Sugar Mountain Plus a bunch of interview. Vibrator Record Company The vinyl disc was blue with white marbling. It had a drawing of a caricaturized naked Joni taking an apple from the snake on the jacket cover . Didn't say who did the drawing. I suppose she (Joni) could have done it. Opening bid was 147.00. I think they'd take 179.00 up front. Later, Jono __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:58:17 +0000 From: "Patricia Parlette" Subject: interrupting my sorrow Hi loves! To paraphrase that wonderful Spanish philospher (Buenos Dias, Emiliano!), I am having a WONDERFUL TIME here on the JMDL. It's like I've died and gone to Joni-heaven. All my life, no one has known more about Joni than me (in my little corner of the world, anyway), and now to meet all of you is just, well, fantastic (not to mention very humbling)! Now I feel like I know very little, but with a "might mighty thirst" to know more. I first posted last Friday, and it wasn't until Saturday night that I got my first wonderful blast of Joni emails. My best friend Janis (we became friends over Joni -- honest! -- in 1975) and I had gone out to dinner for Valentine's day, and afterward I went back to her house to use her computer (and have another glass of white zinfandel) to see if I had any replies to my post. I wish you could have witnessed the scene of pure joy as I scrolled down the names on my screen! Janis and I were squealing with delight as I read them out loud, increasingly excited by each name, eyes-a-popping, high-fiving each other -- so much so that her 9-month-old German Shepherd starting jumping in on the fun as I screamed out names: "Oh, look! Someone from the JMDL wrote to me! Jerry Notaro! SCJoniGuy (he's one of the Bob's!!!)! and Maggie from Boston! OHMYGOD!! And Bree, and Catherine McKay (Anima_rising - -- Queen of Queens of the JMDL and Toronto!!) and Patrick (he says: "The newbie scoops!!") and LCStanley -- Dr. Laura! Oh my God!!! And J. David Sapp and Cul and Jono and MIchael from Quebec!" Then we were almost falling off the computer chair, laughing, because the "hits just a kept on comin'!" Monafitz, right from my backyard in CT (hello, cosmic twin!) and PassScribe Kenny B! Oh, it was too much fun for sure. And then, of course, we knew: "there may be more!" Sure enough, this week a few more trickled in, each one adding exponentially to my intense pleasure. Marianne Rizzo, Anita (the first concert review here -- how awesome!), and then Ashara herself (the wonderful Ashara!!!) and then, OHMYGOD, the famous PAZ MAN!, and Les Irvin himself! Thanks so much, everybody. I feel like I'm just being born, like a shiny light breaking in a storm. It really IS a WONDERFUL TIME! Now, to give this post some real Joni content: 1. I don't know what to make of the lines "petrified wood procees, tall timber down to rock" in "Don't Interrup the Sorrow" (my favorite song of late). Can somebody clue me in? 2. I want to tell you about the times I saw Joni (6, I think), and I'm trying to perfect my memory. However, two of the times I saw her are not listed on the "appearances" page, so I've written to Simon to see if he can research them: 1. Winter or early Spring of 1974 at Woolsey Hall on the Yale campus in New Haven, CT (I remember the encore was "Twisted", and Court and Spark was so new that we didn't even KNOW the song yet -- can you imagine? Wouldn't you just KILL to see her perform that NOW???). 2. The other time was July or August 1974, in Montreal, at the Expo Center. That show was PURE MAGIC -- the Goddess at her best. I'll tell you about it later.... Thanks again for the wonderful welcome -- the best Valentine's Day I ever had! Peace, Patti P.S. Colin: I'm so sorry to hear of your pain, and that you felt let down by your old friends here. But if it is any comfort, let me tell you that ever since i've been reading here (NOT LURKING!!! that's too sinister and evil-sounding!) I have sensed great love and affection from the people here in their messages to you. In fact, in my first post, I wanted to say: P.S. Where is Colin? Is he o.k.? It's been a while." You are in my prayers. _________________________________________________________________ Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide. http://special.msn.com/home/firsthome.armx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:33:20 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #49, ebay and early stuff Hi Mike, and welcome to the JMDL. Back when I signed on to this list back in 1998, I had no idea that anything prior to Song To A Seagull existed; for that matter I didn't even have Song To A Seagull! Well, I've since mended my ways and over the years have been very fortunate to get lots of those early Joni songs, which I really treasure. I recently took all of them, 20 or so, and consolidated them onto a CD. I'll be happy to get a copy to you for blanks/postage or costs for same. As for bootleg LP's on ebay, I don't really have a problem with folks selling old vinyl bootleg LP's there, they are definitely collectibles as far as I'm concerned. Sure, Joni's not making anything on it, but I doubt that she'll go to bed with a growling tummy tonight. Besides, if we had a proper rarities boxset to buy commercially, it would put a lot of these guys out of business. Joni bootlegs usually don't stay active very long anyway before they get shut down. Ebay doesn't do a real good job of policing their stuff (too much to police I'm sure) and when I've contacted them about stuff that shouldn't be there it hasn't done any good. Thanks for the intro, and I look forward to hearing more from you! Bob NP: Daniel Lanois, "Shine" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 09:58:07 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: interrupting my sorrow Patti wrote: > 1. I don't know what to make of the lines "petrified wood procees, tall > timber down to rock" in "Don't Interrup the Sorrow" (my favorite song of > late). Can somebody clue me in? The word petrify literally means "turn to stone", and the process of petrification is when wood becomes rock. The wood enters a swamp or bog, and the water prevents oxygen getting to the wood (which would normally cause decay). It is then covered by minerals - commonly from volcanic eruptions. Over time (millions of years), minerals from the the soil are gradually absorbed by the pores in the wood and sometimes even replace the wood tissue. These minerals (usually silica, commonly known as quartz) form the "rock". Other trace minerals like iron or copper oxides will cause different colours to form. It's not a common occurence - more often wood just disintegrates, or with enough pressure will turn to coal. I know we had a piece of petrified wood at home when I was growing up, but I have no idea what became of it! Hell (AKA Helen in NZ) ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - now even MORE new and improved! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:13:39 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: interrupting my sorrow **The word petrify literally means "turn to stone", and the process of petrification is when wood becomes rock. ** The bigger & much more difficult question to wrestle with is how the lines fit in the context of the song, which is arguably Joni's most cryptic. I don't have a good grasp on the 'big picture' of this song... is it an internal monologue that she's having with her masculine side, or an actual argument between man & woman? The glossary tells us that 'anima' is the Jungian term for man's feminine side, which makes it even more confusing. The context of the line is: I'm leaving on the 1:15 You're darn right Since I was seventeen I've had no one over me He says "Anima rising So what Petrified wood process Tall timber down to rock" So it makes sense to imagine it as an internal monologue, and the singer is saying that leaving, or becoming more independent, is going to make her stronger just as the petrification process makes wood a stronger material does. I dunno if that helps or just makes it muddier! ;~) Bob NP: Jim Lauderdale, "Always On The Outside" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:20:52 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: interrupting my sorrow Bob wrote: > The bigger & much more difficult question to wrestle with is > how the lines fit in the context of the song, which is > arguably Joni's most cryptic. > > I don't have a good grasp on the 'big picture' of this song... > is it an internal monologue that she's having with her > masculine side, or an actual argument between man & woman? The > glossary tells us that 'anima' is the Jungian term for man's > feminine side, which makes it even more confusing. > > The context of the line is: > > I'm leaving on the 1:15 > You're darn right > Since I was seventeen > I've had no one over me > He says "Anima rising > So what > Petrified wood process > Tall timber down to rock" > > So it makes sense to imagine it as an internal monologue, and > the singer is saying that leaving, or becoming more independent, > is going to make her stronger just as the petrification process > makes wood a stronger material does. You know, after I sent that email, I realised I hadn't actually discussed what it means in the song - very remiss of me! The definition of anima is interesting. According to the Merrian-Webster online dictionary, the word can refer to two different things: soul : an individual's true inner self that in the analytic psychology of C. G. Jung reflects archetypal ideals of conduct And also: an inner feminine part of the male personality. Personally, I think Joni is using the first definition in this song, ie. the inner self that reflects archetypal ideals of conduct. Joni is widely read in philosophy, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if she'd read a great deal of Jung's works. So, looking at all the lyrics in turn, this is my interpretation: Don't interrupt the sorrow Darn right In flames our prophet witches Be polite A room full of glasses He says "Your notches, liberation doll" And he chains me with that serpent To that Ethiopian wall We've had a large number of discussions on that "Your notches, liberation doll" might mean, and I don't want to start it again. But...... ;o) My take on this verse is that this is a woman in an unhappy relationship with a chauvanistic, conceited man. She's playing the good housewife. She's not happy in her role but it's ingrained in her and she can't bring herself to leave - she's almost accepted that her life will be unhappy (indicated by the title line). He's chained her with age-old guilt (the serpent from the Garden of Eden) that this is a woman's place - cleaning up after him (the room full of glasses). Every one she washes, he remarks sarcastically that despite thinking she's a liberated woman, she's still notching up "housewife points". Anima rising Queen of Queens Wash my guilt of Eden Wash and balance me Anima rising Uprising in me tonight She's a vengeful little goddess With an ancient crown to fight One day she starts to feel differently (the anima rising) and decides she no longer needs to feel guilty for Eve's "sin" in the Garden of Eden, and that this has gone on for far too long - an ancient crown to fight. Truth goes up in vapors The steeples lean Winds of change patriarchs Snug in your bible belt dreams God goes up the chimney Like childhood Santa Claus The good slaves love the good book A rebel loves a cause More of the same - she's justifying her rebellion, and defying God at the same time. She's decided the bible places too much emphasis on men being dominant over women, and that women have accepted this "truth" for too long (the good slaves love the good book) and it's time to break away from that thinking. God is no more "truth" than Santa Claus. Men have also become complacent about it - snug in their bible-belt dreams. I'm leaving on the 1:15 You're darn right Since I was seventeen I've had no one over me He says "Anima rising So what Petrified wood process Tall timber down to rock" She finally says, "Right, I'm leaving...." and he, again somewhat sarcastically, says "Sure, you're saying you're independent, liberated and have been since you were seventeen. You might feel this rebellion, but so what? Men have been dominant over women for thousands of years, and it will take thousands more years before you have enough guts to actually leave." Don't interrupt the sorrow Darn right He says "We walked on the moon You be polite" Don't let up the sorrow Death and birth and death and birth He says "Bring that bottle kindly And I'll pad your purse I've got a head full of quandary And a mighty mighty thirst" She's still defiant, but he reminds her of how much "men" have accomplished, for example with technological advances (like walking on the moon), and she needs to show some respect. But her words are starting to get to him, and in order to block it out, he'll send her out with some shopping money, and then get drunk to forget about everything. Seventeen glasses Rhine wine Milk of the Madonna Clandestine He don't let up the sorrow He lies and he cheats It takes a heart like Mary's these days When your man gets weak He's now drunk, after drinking 17 glasses of wine. But she's implying the wine is secretly ("clandestine") having the opposite affect to what he intended. It's "Milk of the Madonna" and will bring him round to her way of thinking. But although he knows the truth, he still insists that women should be subserviant to men ("he lies and he cheats"). She knows she has to be strong to stay and fight, and make him acknowledge the truth. Just my two cents, or probably more like $2.02! Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - now even MORE new and improved! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 18:38:31 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: interrupting my sorrow **Just my two cents, or probably more like $2.02! And it's the best $2.02 that *I've* ever spent, that's for sure! :~) Thanks for the great analysis Hell...I think you're spot on with almost all of it, and it makes sense in terms of being consistent with some of the other songs on HOSL...Harry's wife telling him to shove his house & his take home pay, and such. Bob NP: Joni, "Song For Sharon", Wembley 4/24/83 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 01:34:16 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: interrupting my sorrow On 21 Feb 2004 at 11:20, hell wrote: [...] > > So, looking at all the lyrics in turn, this is my interpretation: > > Don't interrupt the sorrow > [...] Hi, Hell, many many thanks for your *great* interpretation! Could I chime in? (I'm in time, I guess ;-) For the ... [...] " Petrified wood process > Tall timber down to rock" > > She finally says, "Right, I'm leaving...." and he, again somewhat > sarcastically, says "Sure, you're saying you're independent, liberated and > have been since you were seventeen. You might feel this rebellion, but so > what? Men have been dominant over women for thousands of years, and it will > take thousands more years before you have enough guts to actually leave." > [...] I find very good your observation about the thousands years, the long and hard road to liberation - as Bob adds: one must make oneself *strong*: as our Joni surely is and everyone of us is learning to. As is the "he" who dialogues here, it presents that road certainly like a rare and difficult way (as you Hell described so masterly in your previous post): it's maybe like trying to break some unavoidable chain > Death and birth and death and birth (as she sings in next stanza) I see too in "Petrified woods" the reference to toughness, to seemingly losing some life and solace in that process: certainly is one of our SIQUOMB's themes (I can't but recall "lovers in anger - block of ice") about the actual loss of ... well, maybe just a little green: after all there aren't too many flowers in the highest peaks, although there must be an awesome blue! In fact, what escapes me totally (its understanding) is the last stanza: I would like to hear more about our Madonna symbolism. The double reference to the nutritious and soothing, enduring power here, at the end of the song, is maybe a good counterbalance to the certain coldness or hardness of the "fighting Queen" who dominates the song, don't you? Anyway, I'd like to say it once more: thanks Hell! surely we missed you last november'n december! Have a Wonderful time! Yours: Emiliano NP: Guinevere, CS&N, San Francisco, '91 (thanks, Laurent!) PS: I can't recall many details from that play, "The petrified forest"... where does actually locates? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:39:26 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni vs. Jewel, njc now Well, uhh. I'm a Jewel fan of sorts so I'm not gonna see it the same way. Me? I don't want a singer to deliver lyrics in a monotone, eh? Different strokes (as always). Yeah, I also think she "squeezes it" (as David Lahm once said of a different singer) but it doesn't bother me anymore than it does when David Crosby does it. Jewel doesn't have to be among the finest songwriters of her generation to be worthy of a career. The songs are worthwhile on their own terms and I'll support her Work. All the best, Jim Good news in Cincinnati: Ani Di Franco is going to be playing solo in a 1900 era theatre. As we say in middle America, "Hellllll yea-a-ah-s!" np: Crosby's "OH YES I CAN" cd http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/19/1077072772032.html said, >Song after song begins with a light girlish voice, her pupils rolled up to further emphasise some kind of innocence, and then plunge into vibrato-heavy deeper tones, the now serious face and intense gaze offering thoughts presumably of the adult kind. Then she'll soar left or right - and sometimes attempt them simultaneously - stretching some notes, flattening others, adding what in some generous quarters could be called jazz colourings. (Late in the set she let loose with an extended scat that it may be best not to mention ever again.)> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:56:08 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: interrupting my sorrow Bob wrote: > Thanks for the great analysis Hell...I think you're spot on with almost > all of it, and it makes sense in terms of being consistent with some > of the other songs on HOSL...Harry's wife telling him to shove his > house & his take home pay, and such. I'm in a far too philosophical frame of mind for a Saturday! But I hadn't really thought of this song in the context of the whole album (which incidentally is my favourite), but there is a definite theme running here. Some very simplified definitions (all IMHO of course!): In France They Kiss On Main Street: The American suburban lifestyle is so staid and reserved compared to Europe - "they seem so removed from romance, they've been broken down in churches and schools, moulded to middle-class circumstance" and "a woman was fading in a suburban room". Years of pre-determined rules on how to behave - which is re-iterated in the last song on the album (Shadows and Light) in the line "compelled by prescribed standards". The Jungle Line: A little harder to interpret (and I'm not even going to try here!) but IMO it's describing the jungle-like nature of the inner-city. Edith and the Kingpin: Again, highlighting the way this man has dominance over women, using and abusing them, then casting them aside for something newer and brighter - "women he has taken grow old too soon", and "bars in her head" (she's caged by him). Following on from the The Jungle Line - he's a predator in the city's jungle with "all claws for now withdrawn". Don't Interrupt the Sorrow: Done that one! Shades of Scarlett Conquering: A woman getting vicarious joy out of watching movies, dreaming that her man could be as charming as Gable or Flynn. She's a strong Southern woman, and doesn't fit the suburban stereotype - the neighbours complaining about the noise when she challenges her man, so she doesn't feel like she really fits in. The Hissing of Summer Lawns: Quite possibly my favourite JM song. The ultimate suburban "trap". He's caught her, and placed her in a gilded cage (with Chippendales, etc.), with a "barbed wire fence", not only to "keep out the unknown" but to keep her in. She stays out of duty (and probably a little fear of the outside world as well), despite a restless desire to be free and to experience the unknown on the other side of the fence, which she can imagine to be anything she wants - "She patrols than fence of his to a latin drum" and "wonder makes it easy, with a joyful mask". The Boho Dance: Almost a defiant "anti-suburbia" song. She's celebrating the Bohemian underground (subterranean) lifestyle, even though she doesn't really fit in - "the cleaners press was in my jeans" and "any eye for detail caught a little lace along the seams". At the end of the song, she admits she didn't really suit the lifestyle, however much she wanted to - "the streets were never really mine, not mine these glamour gowns". Harry's House: As Bob already said, it's again the bored, frustrated housewife in DITS. But this time both husband and wife are feeling the same feeling of being trapped. He's off on the road with his boring job, staying in hotels with other men doing the same thing. They all have a wife and 2.5 kids at home, but they're getting their thrills watching the models in Bloomingdales (either real or mannequins), while she's at home looking after the kids, house and garden. But he's wistfully remembering her back when they first met, when she was young and tanned. Back then, she was opposed to the suburban lifestyle, but like many of her peers, ended up in the very situation she despised when she was young. Sweet Bird: I think this song follows on with the woman in Harry's House. It seems to me that the "sweet bird" is fate - laughing at how this woman has become what she despised. Buying beauty products in a futile attempt to stay young, and compromising her earlier principles more and more as time goes by, which segues nicely into the next song ("the ever-broken laws")..... Shadows and Light: This one is tough to interpret, because there's a LOT being said! But (to me) some of the key phrases are: "Devil of cruelty, devil of delight" and "God of cruelty, god of delight". Kind of saying that every action has it's good and bad points. For example, a suburban lifestyle may bring joy in having material possessions and a sense of "stability", but sorrow in losing your identity along the way. And this verse, "Critics of all expression, judges in black and white, saying it's wrong saying it's right, compelled by prescribed standards" is saying that whatever you do, there's never a set answer - some will say it's OK, some will say it's wrong, and in a lot of ways, we're bound by what our ancestors have determined to be "right". But I think the key phrase is: "Man of the laws, the ever-broken laws". No matter what rules we decide to live by, at some point they will be tested, or broken. As a whole, I think this album is really about Joni fighting against the suburban stereotype (and women's subservient role in that lifestyle) - probably something she had wistful thoughts about when she was younger, or as she had to think about "settling down" with someone. It seems almost like "she protests too much" and this was a way of coping with the conflict of maybe (even subconsciously) wanting that mundane lifestyle for a while, even though she may have condemned it aloud, rather than the more unpredictability of life as a musician, where she was on the road a lot of the time, and feeling unsettled. OK, that probably is at least a year's worth of posts in one go, so I'm going to shut up now! Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - now even MORE new and improved! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 02:01:18 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: interrupting my sorrow, njc now Hi, Patricia, Buenos Dmas! (actually here is Mardi Gras, so figure) I really planned to write to you last week... that's me: so out of time :) Many thanks for your introduction post telling us about the book about Joni & EC & Torch Song! I really smiled in joy reading your Joni moment ! I'm anxious to read more about our SIQUOMB concerts you went to... , maybe from others musicians, too... It's great to have you on board! Anyway, what shocked more my attention was the spanish philosophy professor: "Joni is a goddess. I can't hear Hejira more than once a year". I must admit I always admire these kind of people; truly. So intense! You know, I'm much more frivolous: I'm always in the mood for Hejira. In fact, sometimes I stumble through the house for another spin. You can say I need to hear this masterpiece again. Have a Wonderful time! Yours: Emiliano NP: 4+20, CS&N... it's gonna sound Coyote, right now... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:34:17 -0500 From: "anon anon" Subject: RE: Joni vs. Jewel, njc now The singer I think are irritating are those like Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston who use melisma just to show off.I much prfer understated singers like Joni,Karen Carpenter,Janis Ian ect... who put the song first... >From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" >Reply-To: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" >To: "_JMDL" >Subject: Joni vs. Jewel, njc now >Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:39:26 -0500 > >Well, uhh. I'm a Jewel fan of sorts so I'm not gonna see it the same way. >Me? I don't want a singer to deliver lyrics in a monotone, eh? Different >strokes (as always). Yeah, I also think she "squeezes it" (as David Lahm >once said of a different singer) but it doesn't bother me anymore than it >does when David Crosby does it. Jewel doesn't have to be among the finest >songwriters of her generation to be worthy of a career. The songs are >worthwhile on their own terms and I'll support her Work. > >All the best, >Jim > >Good news in Cincinnati: Ani Di Franco is going to be playing solo in a >1900 >era theatre. As we say in middle America, "Hellllll yea-a-ah-s!" > >np: Crosby's "OH YES I CAN" cd > > >http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/19/1077072772032.html >said, > >Song after song begins with a light girlish voice, her pupils rolled up >to >further emphasise some kind of innocence, and then plunge into >vibrato-heavy >deeper tones, the now serious face and intense gaze offering thoughts >presumably of the adult kind. Then she'll soar left or right - and >sometimes attempt them simultaneously - stretching some notes, flattening >others, adding what in some generous quarters could be called jazz >colourings. (Late in the set she let loose with an extended scat that it >may >be best not to mention ever again.)> _________________________________________________________________ Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 18:33:35 -0800 (PST) From: Jane Subject: NJC - jackson browne I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but for those who care, (and I know I'm not the only one on this list who likes Jackson, and admits it...hey Bob M and Sybil and Darice!), he is on the cover of the latest (march/april) issue of Performing Songwriter. One of the pictures included in the cover story is of Jackson, Joni and Graham Nash. In addition, in this issue there is a DIY ("Do-It-Yourself") spotlight on Patti Witten, whose posts I've seen here. Oh yeah, and a bit about Jonatha Brooke. If you don't subscribe, the magazine is available at Barnes and Noble, as well as other outlets I am sure. Jane __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #80 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)