From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #74 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, February 16 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 074 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Torch Song? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Torch Song? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Gordy ["jlobello" ] Larry speaks of Joni ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] regrets njc ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Gordy [Debi ] Re: regrets njc [Debi ] long ago and far away...little help here njc [Debi ] Re: Larry speaks of Joni [Catgirl ] Re: Larry speaks of Joni [David Sadowski ] Grace Slick exhibiting ["kakki" ] Today's Library Links: February 16 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Iron Eyes Cody Bio [David Sadowski ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 23:31:23 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Torch Song? **but are Torch Songs supposed to be "blue" songs--sad, depressed, wanting, longing songs? In that way I would classify the whole "Blue" Album as the blues. ** Hmmm, well let's see. As most have said you can't classify Blue as the Blues, not by song structure anyway. I think it's even erroneous to say that all or even most of the songs are sad & depressiing. I WOULD say that they are all intense in their own way, they are all brutally honest and evoke strong emotions, but I would not say they're all "sad" songs: "All I Want" and "My Old Man" are buoyant, almost joyous love songs. "Little Green" is of course full of melancholy but also full of hope, especially if you don't know the story behind it. "Carey" is another upbeat and fun celebration-type song. The title track is unabashedly a mournful song, no doubt about it. A sad song. But then it's followed by 2 that aren't sad, "California" & "This Flight Tonight"...so we're 7 songs into a 10-track record and we've only heard 1 SAD song. Next up is "River", another sad one, but then there's "A Case of You" which is no doubt a beautiful and a damn-near perfect love song, but it's as much as a declaration of love as it is a torch song of love lost. And then comes "Last Time I Saw Richard" which I would also stop short of calling a 'sad' song. Philosophical, introspective, personal, honest...but sad? I dunno. I think the cover of the record and the intense honest emotions that Joni pours out all over it can give the impression that the whole record is sad. But to simply call it sad or depressing is to sell it short - I think it goes MUCH deeper than that for the most part. Bob NP: Courtney Love, "Hello" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 23:38:23 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Torch Song? **In my opinion there is just no way that if Joni did keep her child that she would have forgotten about her music. ** Yeah, it's pure speculation, but I agree with you. But it IS safe to say that she would not have written "Little Green"! :~) Glad you have you back in the college of Joni knowledge! Seems like old times. Bob NP: Joni, "Two Grey Rooms" (demo) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 00:16:03 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: Gordy All, Picked up a Gordon Lightfoot CD from the library today (a painter passing through). It's an older album ('98) but good. I wonder if he's still putting them out. Heard him on Mountain Stage a few years back. He sounded great. I also picked up Steeleye Span (spanning the years) and a CD called Hard Cash with a bunch of British folks artist on it. June Tabor has two cuts on that album--if it wasn't for her accent, she'd sound very much like Joni. I believe I have heard June Tabor on the Thistle and Shamrock (MCd by Theona Richie on NPR). I heard Judith Owens on Mountain Stage this evening--she's a pretty jazzy lady (Welch too, I think). I also heard Bruce Coburn tonight on the same program. Laura Nero and a bunch of other people have been on that NPR program. Does anyone on the list listen to Mountain Stage besides me? Will if your Public Radio Station gets it, listen. It's a great show. Jono ----- Original Message ----- From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com To: debi627327@yahoo.com ; jlobello@famvid.com ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 11:38 PM Subject: Re: Torch Song? **In my opinion there is just no way that if Joni did keep her child that she would have forgotten about her music. ** Yeah, it's pure speculation, but I agree with you. But it IS safe to say that she would not have written "Little Green"! :~) Glad you have you back in the college of Joni knowledge! Seems like old times. Bob NP: Joni, "Two Grey Rooms" (demo) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 00:51:37 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Larry speaks of Joni In a search on the string "Larry Klein", I found his account of the Iron Eyes Cody story. It's simpler than Joni's account and the order of events is completely different. "What's the craziest Joni Mitchell story you tell can me without her getting mad?" Larry said, >"She's always had a serendipitous, mystical sense of timing, which has always astounded me. There was one incident where we were working on a song we'd written together for a record of hers. At a certain point, she wanted to go down the street to this American Indian antique convention at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium. I said, Oh no, you can't go down there. You'll be there for hours and we're on the clock here. Then all of sudden, BOOM! Lightning struck somewhere around the studio and the power went out. So everything had to be reset, and there were some problems with the console. So she said, Okay, I'm going down to the Indian event. I started dreading that she would be there for hours, but almost about the same time that we got everything up and running, she returned. With her was an Indian movie actor, Iron Eyes Cody, who had been in all these John Wayne movies and other westerns. So we ended up incorporating him chanting over this song [Lakota, from Chalkmark in a Rain Storm], which ended up working out really well. But it was this chain of weird, synchronystic, serendipitous events that led to her coming back with this Indian chief.> http://mixonline.com/ar/audio_larry_klein_doing/ BTW, as I read this, he names which vocal mic is on TRAVELOGUE: "What are some of the mics you really like?" Larry said, >It depends on the singer and the project, but there are a lot of different ones I really like. I got an AKG C-12 that I love. The mic we're using on Joni for this record is an old Telefunken 251; it's a beautiful-sounding mic. There's also the Neumann 149, a new version of the old M49 tube mic, that I use on a lot of things.> "Who have you learned the most from since you started producing?" >I think I've learned more from the artists that I've worked with than from other producers. I have to say more than anyone else Joni  she taught me a lot about producing. She's sort of my philosophical/production mentor.> All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 00:55:28 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: regrets njc Dude, I'm glad you are back on the list. We had a small thread going about cats last week. I said it seems strange to have a cat thread without Colin. I'm sorry to hear that you're not well and I wish you all the best help. Did you read Bob Murphy's post about visiting MG? The list has cooled down quite a bit in the past year. Many times I feel like we started out as a discussion list but things are different now. There's not much discussion. When an old topic comes up, it seems like old, hurt feelings pop up immediately. Often it feels to me like discussions blow up much more quickly than they did in the beginning. I'm not a referee but I don't think it's the same. You didn't miss much good stuff so far this year on the JMDL. We're suffering through a presidential election over here so that eats up a lot of attention on the list. The good news is that there is some new blood (Dylan) and some old blood came back (Catgirl). If you haven't heard any new music for awhile, that might be a good place to start. It is a positive change you can control. If you already have CDs from Fred Simon & David Lahm, you might check out "Moon At The Window" by the Rachel Z Trio. Muller was right about her. Paz is working on a compilation of audience recordings and non-catalog gems. All the best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 22:13:31 -0800 (PST) From: Debi Subject: Re: Gordy Jono. I live in the Philly region and on WXPN, 88.5, they have Mountain Stage. I haven't heard it in a while. I just never seem to catch the show when it is on the radio but do enjoy it when I have had. I heard David Bern on there years back and then saw him at the Philly Folk Festival. He performed on Friday night and did a song about aliens procreating with monkeys. It was a very funny song but the word he used and with the little folk around, well lets just say this, he will never return to the Philly Folk Festival again. Debi jlobello wrote: All, Picked up a Gordon Lightfoot CD from the library today (a painter passing through). It's an older album ('98) but good. I wonder if he's still putting them out. Heard him on Mountain Stage a few years back. He sounded great. I also picked up Steeleye Span (spanning the years) and a CD called Hard Cash with a bunch of British folks artist on it. June Tabor has two cuts on that album--if it wasn't for her accent, she'd sound very much like Joni. I believe I have heard June Tabor on the Thistle and Shamrock (MCd by Theona Richie on NPR). I heard Judith Owens on Mountain Stage this evening--she's a pretty jazzy lady (Welch too, I think). I also heard Bruce Coburn tonight on the same program. Laura Nero and a bunch of other people have been on that NPR program. Does anyone on the list listen to Mountain Stage besides me? Will if your Public Radio Station gets it, listen. It's a great show. Jono - ----- Original Message ----- From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com To: debi627327@yahoo.com ; jlobello@famvid.com ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 11:38 PM Subject: Re: Torch Song? **In my opinion there is just no way that if Joni did keep her child that she would have forgotten about her music. ** Yeah, it's pure speculation, but I agree with you. But it IS safe to say that she would not have written "Little Green"! :~) Glad you have you back in the college of Joni knowledge! Seems like old times. Bob NP: Joni, "Two Grey Rooms" (demo) *It's all a dream, she has awoke* Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 22:19:53 -0800 (PST) From: Debi Subject: Re: regrets njc "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: Dude, I'm glad you are back on the list. We had a small thread going about cats last week. I said it seems strange to have a cat thread without Colin. I'm sorry to hear that you're not well and I wish you all the best help. Did you read Bob Murphy's post about visiting MG? The list has cooled down quite a bit in the past year. Many times I feel like we started out as a discussion list but things are different now. There's not much discussion. When an old topic comes up, it seems like old, hurt feelings pop up immediately. Often it feels to me like discussions blow up much more quickly than they did in the beginning. I'm not a referee but I don't think it's the same. You didn't miss much good stuff so far this year on the JMDL. We're suffering through a presidential election over here so that eats up a lot of attention on the list. The good news is that there is some new blood (Dylan) and some old blood came back (Catgirl). If you haven't heard any new music for awhile, that might be a good place to start. It is a positive change you can control. If you already have CDs from Fred Simon & David Lahm, you might check out "Moon At The Window" by the Rachel Z Trio. Muller was right about her. Paz is working on a compilation of audience recordings and non-catalog gems. All the best, Jim And so I wrote: OLD BLOOD?!! Why I should hit you with my cane. And as far as cats go, the catman and I go back quite a few years. The day I own another kittie will be the day I return to catgirl. I have already named the little guy and his name will be *freedom*. PS Colin aka Catman- I am still waiting for a reply! Catgirl I mean Debi >^..^< *It's all a dream, she has awoke* Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 22:24:22 -0800 (PST) From: Debi Subject: long ago and far away...little help here njc Hello All, I used to write to this list alot along time ago. Apparently, though, I don't remember, is it better to have your response to a post at the beginning or at the end? I can change it in my email box but I don't know. So let's take a vote... from the beginning or this is the end, my darling friends the end. Debi- yes the quotes are from ELP and the Doors..... *It's all a dream, she has awoke* Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 22:45:17 -0800 (PST) From: Catgirl Subject: Re: Larry speaks of Joni Wow, what a great story. That has to be my favorite off of the lp. She speaks the plight of the Native Americans so clearly and powerfully in that song. I remember listening to that lp when I first got it and when I heard that song, I got all goose bumpy and felt so connected to Joni. She can paint such clarity in her songs. If you never seen the video it is a must! Debi "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: In a search on the string "Larry Klein", I found his account of the Iron Eyes Cody story. It's simpler than Joni's account and the order of events is completely different. "What's the craziest Joni Mitchell story you tell can me without her getting mad?" Larry said, >"She's always had a serendipitous, mystical sense of timing, which has always astounded me. There was one incident where we were working on a song we'd written together for a record of hers. At a certain point, she wanted to go down the street to this American Indian antique convention at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium. I said, Oh no, you can't go down there. You'll be there for hours and we're on the clock here. Then all of sudden, BOOM! Lightning struck somewhere around the studio and the power went out. So everything had to be reset, and there were some problems with the console. So she said, Okay, I'm going down to the Indian event. I started dreading that she would be there for hours, but almost about the same time that we got everything up and running, she returned. With her was an Indian movie actor, Iron Eyes Cody, who had been in all these John Wayne movies and other westerns. So we ended up incorporating him chanting over this song [Lakota, from Chalkmark in a Rain Storm], which ended up working out really well. But it was this chain of weird, synchronystic, serendipitous events that led to her coming back with this Indian chief.> http://mixonline.com/ar/audio_larry_klein_doing/ BTW, as I read this, he names which vocal mic is on TRAVELOGUE: "What are some of the mics you really like?" Larry said, >It depends on the singer and the project, but there are a lot of different ones I really like. I got an AKG C-12 that I love. The mic we're using on Joni for this record is an old Telefunken 251; it's a beautiful-sounding mic. There's also the Neumann 149, a new version of the old M49 tube mic, that I use on a lot of things.> "Who have you learned the most from since you started producing?" >I think I've learned more from the artists that I've worked with than from other producers. I have to say more than anyone else Joni  she taught me a lot about producing. She's sort of my philosophical/production mentor.> All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu Lama *It's all a dream, she has awoke* Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 00:54:12 -0600 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: Larry speaks of Joni It gets better. After Iron Eyes Cody died, it was revealed that he may not have been an American Indian after all. Do a Google search... one article is titled "Iron Eyes Cody, Wannabe Indian." This bit of historical trivia also figured into the plot of an episode of The Sopranos... looks like Cody may have been Italian American. Catgirl wrote: >Wow, what a great story. That has to be my favorite off of the lp. She speaks the plight of the Native Americans so clearly and powerfully in that song. I remember listening to that lp when I first got it and when I heard that song, I got all goose bumpy and felt so connected to Joni. She can paint such clarity in her songs. If you never seen the video it is a must! >Debi > >"Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: >In a search on the string "Larry Klein", I found his account of the Iron >Eyes Cody story. It's simpler than Joni's account and the order of events >is completely different. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 23:02:10 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Grace Slick exhibiting Sorry in advance for not putting njc on this one, but with so many Grace fans here I don't want to miss anyone (and hmmm, one never knows who may come to this event ;-) From L.A. Times 2/15/04 Meet and See The Artwork of Grace Slick Thursday Evening, February 19th, 7-10 p.m. at Art One Gallery in Westwood, CA 1036 Broxton Avenue http://www.artonegallery.com (Shown is a photo of Grace and the gallery owner, plus a very cool painting of Alice in Wonderful holding hands with an enormous white rabbit) "Best known as the rebellious rocker of the sixties, Grace Slick now prefers a paintbrush to a microphone. Her artwork has been very well-received by collectors as well as critics. Due to the high demand and heavy tour schedule, Grace's personal appearances are very limited. This is an opportunity to meet one of rock's icons. We will be showing the Wonderland Suite. Using her love of animals combined with a certain attitude, Grace has created a wonderful group of characters from Wonderland. Other works to be shown include very intense and colorful portraits. Jimi Hendrix, Jerry Garcia, Janis Joplin and Sting are subjects of some of her paintings. The portraits have a special edge that only Grace can give them." Oooo! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 02:13:04 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: February 16 On February 16 the following articles were published: 2000: "Both Sides Now" - Rolling Stone (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=444 2000: "Mitchell Jazz CD Drips with Finesse" - Orange County Register (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=457 - -------- Can you type? http://www.jmdl.com/typing/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 01:20:05 -0600 From: David Sadowski Subject: Iron Eyes Cody Bio Iron Eyes Cody Born in Gueydan, Louisiana/USA April 3, 1907 Died: January 4, 1999 Biography When Iron Eyes Cody died in 1999, he was eulogized as possibly the most famous American Indian actor ever. As the teary-eyed Crying Indian in a series of 1960s Keep America Beautiful public service announcements, he became one of the most prominent spokesman for environmentalism. Most newspaper accounts recounted how this Oklahoma born son of Thomas Longplume Cody came to Hollywood in its infancy and became one of its first and most enduring Indian actors. As a part-Cherokee, part-Cree actor he was not only an actor in numerous westerns, but also a technical advisor and spokesman for Native American causes. However, this commonly accepted biography of Iron Eyes Cody is almost certainly false, and he was in fact a second-generation Italian-American from Louisiana. The motive for his deception is not clear, but neither is his story merely just one of the more fanciful fictions that many Hollywood stars have concocted for themselves over the years. In actuality, Cody was born Espera DeCorti in Gueydan, Louisiana, the son Italian immigrants Antonio DeCorti and Francesca Salpietra. Known to everyone as Oscar, Cody endured the break-up of his family when his father, a small-town grocer, ran off abandoning his wife and children. His mother remarried and bore five more children, eventually relocating to Texas where his stepfather found work among the oil refineries. Cody, and his brothers Joe and Frank DeCorti, reconciled with their biological father, before setting off for Los Angeles under the shortened last name of Corti. All three brothers eventually tried their hand at acting, but it was only Cody who stuck with it, fashioning the now familiar fictitious heritage and history that he was the son of a rodeo performer with Buffalo Bill Cody's traveling Wild West Show. Cody quickly found work in silent films and worked steadily for decades into the advanced age of over 90. While the American public and press apparently bought his fictitious persona until the end, there were apparently Native American actors, including Jay Silverheels, that did not believe it, but they kept quiet for various reasons, including not wanting to cast negative light on Native Americans. Whatever Cody may have lacked in blood-lines, he certainly made up for it to a great extent in Native American spirit, for he lived a simple lifestyle, and gave generously all his life to Native American causes, giving countless dollars to tribal schools and orphanages, and devoting countless hours to charitable work. Although he himself may not have been a Native American, his wife Bertha Parker Cody, and his two adopted children certainly were. Bertha, a well-educated daughter of a prominent Seneca family, was an archeologist, and together they served as technical advisors for various westerns, and even hosted a TV show on Native American lore during the 1950s. While his film career spans eight decades from the 1919 Back to God's Country, through classics such as Broken Arrow, Paleface, and Springtime in the Rockies, and all the way to the late 1980's Ernest Goes to Camp, Codys story is at least as interesting for the fiction he made reality, and the people who helped him preserve it. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #74 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)