From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #73 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, February 15 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 073 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The Good 'ol Days NJC ["ash" ] Re: MARILLION eWeb: Mixing MarblesNJC ["ash" ] blues, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] regrets njc [colin ] test ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: regrets njc [Randy Remote ] re - Michael from Mountains ["J.David Sapp" ] Re: blues, njc [Debra Worthington ] re - Michael from Mountains ["J.David Sapp" ] Michael to Cuctus Tree [Debra Worthington ] Re: regrets njc [Catherine McKay ] Torch Song? ["jlobello" ] Re: Torch Song? [AzeemAK@aol.com] RE: Torch Song? ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Torch Song? [Randy Remote ] Re: Torch Song? [Catherine McKay ] Fwd: Torch Song? [Musicloverrick@aol.com] Fwd: [NortheastJonifest] meeting across the river -- njc -- Message from Smurph [Catherine McKay ] Re: regrets njc ["Lori Fye" ] Torch Singer? JC ["Russell Bowden" ] Re: Torch Song? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Torch Song? ["jlobello" ] Re: Torch Song? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Fwd: [NortheastJonifest] meeting across the river -- njc [Chuck Eisenhard] Re: Playing problems follow up [Catherine McKay ] Re: Torch Song? [Debra Worthington ] Re: Torch Song? ["jlobello" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:23:23 +1100 From: "ash" Subject: Re: The Good 'ol Days NJC may I include this? Its American in origin.. > >Subject: The Good 'ol Days > >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:38:07 EST > > > >A little house with three bedrooms > >and one car on the street, > >A mower that you had to push > >to make the grass look neat. > > > >In the kitchen on the wall > >we only had one phone, > >And no need for recording things, > >someone was always home. > > > >We only had a living room > >where we would congregate, > >Unless it was at mealtime > >in the kitchen where we ate. > > > >We had no need for family rooms > >or extra rooms to dine, > >When meeting as a family > >those two rooms would work out fine. > > > >We only had one TV set, > >and channels maybe two, > >But always there was one of them > >with something worth the view. > > > >For snacks we had potato chips > >that tasted like a chip, > >And if you wanted flavor > >there was Lipton's onion dip. > > > >Store-bought snacks were rare > >because my mother liked to cook, > >And nothing can compare > >to snacks in Betty Crocker's book. > > > >The snacks were even healthy > >with the best ingredients, > >No labels with a hundred things > >that make not a bit of sense. > > > >Weekends were for family trips > >or staying home to play, > >We all did things together -- > >even go to church to pray. > > > >When we did our weekend trips > >depending on the weather, > >No one stayed at home because > >we liked to be together. > > > >Sometimes we would separate > >to do things on our own, > >But we knew where the others were > >without our own cell phone. > > > >Then there were the movies > >with your favorite movie star, > >And nothing can compare to > >watching movies in your car. > > > >Then there were the picnics > >at the peak of summer season, > >Pack a lunch and find some trees > >and never need a reason. > > > >Get a baseball game together > >with all the friends you know, > >Have real action playing ball -- > >and no game video. > > > >Remember when the doctor used > >to be the family friend, > >And didn't need insurance > >or a lawyer to defend? > > > >The way that he took care of you > >or what he had to do, > >Because he took an oath > >and strived to do the best for you. > > > >Remember going to the store > >and shopping casually, > >And when you went to pay for it > >you used your own money? > > > >Nothing that you had to swipe > >or punch in some amount, > >Remember when the cashier person > >had to really count? > > > >Remember when we breathed the air; > >it smelled so fresh and clean, > >And chemicals were not used > >on the grass to keep it green. > > > >The milkman and the bread man > >used to go from door to door, > >And it was just a few cents more > >than going to the store. > > > >There was a time when mailed letters > >came right to your door, > >Without a lot of junk mail ads > >sent out by every store. > > > >The mailman knew each house by name > >and knew where it was sent; > >There were not loads of mail > >addressed to "present occupant." > > > >Remember when the words "I do" > >meant that you really did, > >And not just temporarily > >'til someone blows their lid. > > > >T'was no such thing as "no one's fault; > >we just made a mistake," > >There was a time when married life > >was built on give and take. > > > >There was a time when just one glance > >was all that it would take, > >And you would know the kind of car, > >the model and the make. > > > >They didn't look like turtles > >trying to squeeze out every mile; > >They were streamlined with white walls & fins, > >and really had some style. > > > >One time the music that you played > >whenever you would jive, > >Was from a vinyl, big-holed record > >called a forty-five. > > > >The record player had a post > >to keep them all in line, > >And then the records would drop down > >and play one at a time. > > > >Oh sure, we had our problems then, > >just like we do today, > >And always we were striving, > >trying for a better way. > > > >And every year that passed us by > >brought new and greater things, > >We now can even program phones > >with music or with rings. > > > >Oh, the simple life we lived > >still seems like so much fun, > >How can you explain a game, > >just kick the can and run? > > > >And why would boys put baseball cards > >between bicycle spokes, > >And for a nickel red machines > >had little bottled Cokes. > > > >This life seemed so much easier > >and slower in some ways, > >I love the new technology > >but I sure miss those days. > > > >So time moves on and so do we, > >and nothing stays the same, > >But I sure love to reminisce > >and walk down memory lane. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:42:44 +1100 From: "ash" Subject: Re: MARILLION eWeb: Mixing MarblesNJC May I include this????? - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 10:15 PM Subject: MARILLION eWeb: Mixing Marbles > Marbles is getting closer by the day. It's been a long journey, > and we're glad you stayed with us. Dave M wants it remembered that > we have in fact written and recorded TWO albums. > That's what Marbles represents. > > You'll be pleased to know that we are now in the final stage of > the album: mixing. To help Dave Meegan with this mammoth task, we > have enlisted the talents of Steven Wilson (singer and creative > force behind the Porcupine Tree, who mixed most of 'marillion.com') > and our old friend Michael Hunter (who created and mixed our Racket > CD 'River' and more recently is producing bands - famously including > Mansun) to mix certain tracks from the album. The best things come > in threes don't they...?! > > We also have decided on the final running order of the album. > With no little excitement, we present Marbles: > > CD 1 > The Invisible Man > Marbles I > Genie > Fantastic Place > The Only Unforgivable Thing > Marbles II > Ocean Cloud > > CD 2 > Marbles III > The Damage > Don't Hurt Yourself > You're Gone > Angelina > Drilling Holes > Marbles IV > Neverland > > For those of you who have been with us from the start of this album, > you'll notice many of the tracks seem to have vanished - this is just > the result of changing the working titles of the songs into their > final album names. You can get more details on the tracks (and the > track list for the 1CD retail version) from > http://www.marillion.com/marbles ...and don't forget, the 2CD Deluxe > Campaign Edition is STILL available to pre-order Many of you are > emailing in hoping to still get a copy - don't worry, we're making > plenty of them to make sure everyone who wants one can still get one > at http://www.marillion.com/marbles > > We've started spending some of the campaign money and within the > next few weeks you should start seeing the fruits of our (and your!) > labour. > > The European tour dates are also almost complete - go to > http://www.marillion.com/tour and see if we're coming to visit you. > > Remember, YOU can help spread the word about the album and the tour > by joining one of our Street Teams at http://www.marillion.com/street > > We look forward to seeing you somewhere soon.. Whoopee..! > > h, Steve, Ian, Mark, Pete > > ---------------------------------------------------- > MARILLION eWeb Email Newsletter - info@marillion.com > > The new album MARBLES on sale NOW www.marillion.com/marbles > > Find a Better Way of Life at www.marillion.com > PO Box 252, Aylesbury, BUCKS, HP18 0YS, UK > Fax: +44 (0)1296 770 839 > > (c) 2004 Marillion and Racket Records > > > > To unsubscribe, click on the following web page. > http://cgi.mail-list.com/u?ln=marillion&nm=millsac@bigpond.com > > > This eWeb was sent to email address: millsac@bigpond.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:44:06 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: blues, njc Yesterday I picked up from the store a cd from the PBS TV series" the blues", produced by Scorcese. There are 7 movies, including 1 by Clint Eastwood and this cd "soul of a man" is from the Wim Wenders movie. The 20 tracks feature mainly original releases by Beck, Nick Cave, Lou Reed, Cassandra Wilson, Lucinda Williams, Los Lobos, T Bone Burnett, Shemekia Copeland, Garland Jeffreys, Alvin Youngblood Hart, James Blood Ulmer, Marc Ribot and Bonnie Raitt, mixed with a few tracks by blues giants JB Lenoir, Skip James, etc. Has anybody in the U.S. seen this series or the DVDs yet? This cd is just incredible and makes me want to see the others. Perfect introduction to the blues but also worth a spin to blues lovers. The Bonnie track especially confirms my opinion that she's at her peak. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:53:25 +0000 From: colin Subject: regrets njc I am hurting both physically and in my heart. After a great deal of thougth, I have decided to write about why. perhaps I will regret it but there is a chance out is better than in. I joined this list almost 7 years ago. i used to really enjoy it, felt I finally belonged somewhere. I made, i thought, some good friends. people I telephoned, regardless of their country, people I emailed with. Emailed people I noticed hadn't posted for a while, people I knew were down or ill or wanting in some way. And people emialed me, some of them I didn't know, but they sent kind emails anyway. Some people I rubbed up the wrong way, that's life, others just plain nasty. But the warmth the list provided, the links with people, the discussions about all and sundry made up for any meaness. But it all changed and I have no idea why. I made a remark a few weeks ago about Uk members seemingly forgetting I exist. i perhaps should not have said so, or at least been more upfront about how I feel. so here goes: I have been physically ill for 13 mths. Am in a great deal of pain all the time. I have Codeien for it for now but don't take it-addictive and juts not worth the possible result. I have been taken to hosptial 3 times now as an emergency. Know I have heart disease now. The first time back in April, I got cards from people I was amazed to get them from. Emails. Since then nothing. No phone calls, no emails, no vists, no nothing. It is hard not to feel I miust have really pissed a lot of people off or that my big fear is true-I am not likeable. Or that i am just a big fool and the people i was fond of, the people i thought actuakky liked me and were not humouring me, were not what I thought. I have continued to live my life, pain or not. More determined to do so. I travelled a lot last year. Having death stare you in the face deos that. And stupidlly by big fear is that there will be no one at my funeral but John.Not that I intend having a funeral for a long time yet. The stragest thing is, fro me, that when i joine dthis list, I was off my head. My bi polar was in full swing. Yet it seemd I wa sliked and accpeted. Then i got well. And that was the end of feeling accpeted and liked. Of ocures it is possible I was just in denial about that and what isaw wasn't there. So after feeling angry about it all, ashamed, stupid, I finally realise I just feel plain hurt and rejected. I don't think I am that terible. i don't go out of my way to hurt people and activelt avoid it. But people have no room for me anyway. I used to wake in the morning and the first thing I did, afeter letting the dogs out, was read my joni mail. The boring stuff, the funny stuff, the angry stuff, the moving stuff, the clever stuff, the wise stuff, I really looked forward to it. I wondered what lori was going to sa y, the rev,asahra, guzzi, paz, the bobs,wonderd how lama was doing with depression, watched kakki getting into politics and enjoying it, eevryone, how Stryngs was coming on, how the fest was going, how I envied the Festers. I logged on to see what what my family were up to now. The only time I didn't like posts was when people got nasty. No subject upsewt me. Gosh I feel soooo stupid. Even if later I feel ashamed for writing this, I right now feel better for expressing my hurt feelings. I am slowly coming to terms with my diseased heart, my spinal problesma nd the cosntant pain. i am sure I will come to terms with this list too. In the lst few weks I have tried hard to naish the Joni list from my mind but eevry time I log on I have had to fight with myself not to go and read the archives. Or resub. Today I gave in and now that I have said what is on my mind, perhaps i won't feel that pull any more. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:49:07 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: test You're back! Yah, your posts are getting through. We have some catching up to do. Did you buy TRAVELOGUE? Did you see the PBS special, "Joni Mitchell: A Woman of Heart And Mind"? Did you hear "Speechless" on THE COMPLETE GEFFEN RECORDINGS? All the best, Lama Jim L'Hommedieu >Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:46:12 -0800 (PST) From: Debra Worthington Subject: test NJC Hi, I keep sending emails and either no one wants to responsd to them or they are getting lost in space. I have not received in from in my email box....any thoughts? Debi> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:11:22 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: regrets njc Wow...like others, Colin, I have wondered where you were, and missed not seeing your posts on the list. I am sorry to hear that you are having such health problems. I know constant pain can get you down. I'm sure I speak for the list in wishing you better health in the future. As for not being liked, I know this is not true. I like you and appreciate your point of view about the many subjects on which you have posted. I definitely think of you as part of this list. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:31:19 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: re - Michael from Mountains I've always loved this image: There's oil on the puddles in taffeta patterns That run down the drain In colored arrangements That Michael will change with a stick that he found Michael also serves as a counterpoint to King - and in her 1st 2 recorded songs foreshadows much of her future work. Leaving the dream no blame in Michael (There's no one to blame No there's no one to name as a traitor here); the tender hope of Michael as love sucks us back that way. Great stuff. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:16:56 -0800 (PST) From: Debra Worthington Subject: Re: blues, njc Laurent, I have not heard of this yet. I do love Cassandra Wilson. She has an amazing voice. I have her one CD where she does a cover of Neil Youngs, Harvest Moon. I was listening to that song just the other day. His version is so different then hers. She makes the song so sad where as he makes a simple statement. I love them both. Laurent Olszer wrote: Yesterday I picked up from the store a cd from the PBS TV series" the blues", produced by Scorcese. There are 7 movies, including 1 by Clint Eastwood and this cd "soul of a man" is from the Wim Wenders movie. The 20 tracks feature mainly original releases by Beck, Nick Cave, Lou Reed, Cassandra Wilson, Lucinda Williams, Los Lobos, T Bone Burnett, Shemekia Copeland, Garland Jeffreys, Alvin Youngblood Hart, James Blood Ulmer, Marc Ribot and Bonnie Raitt, mixed with a few tracks by blues giants JB Lenoir, Skip James, etc. Has anybody in the U.S. seen this series or the DVDs yet? This cd is just incredible and makes me want to see the others. Perfect introduction to the blues but also worth a spin to blues lovers. The Bonnie track especially confirms my opinion that she's at her peak. Laurent Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:43:30 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: re - Michael from Mountains I meant:I Leaving the dream no blame in KING (There's no one to blame No there's no one to name as a traitor heremeant: peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:32:38 -0800 (PST) From: Debra Worthington Subject: Michael to Cuctus Tree Someone mentioned Cactus Tree. This song creates alot of imagery for me as well. She thinks she wants them all....is she just a young full hearty girl or does she know a deeper truth about relationships and how it is easier to just want all of them and offer no commitment back? I think she is wiser then her young years portrait. She is very sage (or am I just old and calloused) to ask for nothing in return? She is just FREE..... Debi "J.David Sapp" wrote: I've always loved this image: There's oil on the puddles in taffeta patterns That run down the drain In colored arrangements That Michael will change with a stick that he found Michael also serves as a counterpoint to King - and in her 1st 2 recorded songs foreshadows much of her future work. Leaving the dream no blame in Michael (There's no one to blame No there's no one to name as a traitor here); the tender hope of Michael as love sucks us back that way. Great stuff. peace, david Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:32:45 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: regrets njc --- colin wrote: > I am hurting both physically and in my heart. After > a great deal of > thougth, I have decided to write about why. perhaps > I will regret it but > there is a chance out is better than in. No regrets, Coyote. I think it's good to say what's on your mind and in your heart. You have been missed. I've missed you and I know others have. I'm really sorry to hear about your health. I knew you weren't well but I don't think I, for one, realized how much pain you were really in and I'm truly sorry to hear that. When you don't post for a long time, someone always asks if anyone has heard from you. Sometimes they post to the list; other times, they post privately to someone they think "knows" you better and might have heard from you. Sometimes I go for a while without posting, so if someone else does that, I don't think it's that unusual and time has this way of passing - sometimes a few months feels like only a few weeks. I don't think it's that no one cares or no one likes you. Many of us do care and do like you. Still, I understand how you can feel the way you do. Keep posting, OK? Let us know how things are going with you and John. I agree with you about the codeine - - it has some nasty side effects so, if you can do without, then so much the better. You told us about the heart, but what's the story with your spine? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:34:41 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: Torch Song? Group: This morning I heard Kev Mo (is that right?) on NPR (weekend edition). He sounds great and reminds me of Taj Mahal. Speaking of the Taj-man, does anyone know what he's up to these days. I saw him live in '92 at the Ishpeming High School Auditorium--great performance! Torch song--What the hell is a Torch Song?. Michael gave examples of them in A Case of You and a bunch of others. I know that Blues and Folk (or at least "Joni-folk") are two different genres, but are Torch Songs supposed to be "blue" songs--sad, depressed, wanting, longing songs? In that way I would classify the whole "Blue" Album as the blues. Shoot, in my public library the Blue CD is classified as blues and is put in the blues section along with Muddy Waters and the like (those Yoopers, anyway!!). A few years ago when I was talking to a woman friend of mine, we started talking about "stalking", and how it was hyped by the media. She used Sting's I'll Be Watching You as an example of a stalking song. Will, musically I thought it was an OK song by Sting (it was certainly played enough back then), but that's as far as it went. I never thought of it in any other context. But, she was sure in her mind that Sting wrote it expressly to encourage guys to stalk women. Anyway.... So, I listen to Two Grey Rooms--I like it a lot-- and then I realize that this woman rents these two rooms just because they are located where she knows her ex-lover has to walk by going to and from work everyday (except weekends and holidays). Is that sick, or masochistic or both??!!!! I mean instead of suffering like that she should at least occassionally invite him up for coffee! So, is this a Torch Song? I know I'm going to generate some comments with that one. But, you all know I love Joni and I'm not trying to be super critical of her. Later, Jono ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:49:40 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Torch Song? In a message dated 15/02/2004 18:39:57 GMT Standard Time, jlobello@famvid.com writes: << Shoot, in my public library the Blue CD is classified as blues and is put in the blues section along with Muddy Waters and the like (those Yoopers, anyway!!) >> Well, categories and categorisation are tricky areas, and definitions can turn into typecasting; that said, I would offer my opinion that Blue (whose many merits I'm sure I don't need to expound here) is a long, long way from being a blues album, in any sense that I understand the term. Obviously my opinion is no more valuable than yours, Jono; as far as your library is concerned, however, I would venture that putting Blue in with Elmore, Muddy and Bessie is possibly simply the result of laziness or ignorance. "Hmmm, it's called Blue, so therefore it must go in the Blues section..." Reminds me of a brain-lazy radio DJ who introduced the latest single by Johnny Hates Jazz, one of the most anodyne and forgettable 80s pop groups, with the words "Now some jazz from Johnny Hates Jazz." Sorry mate, if that's jazz, I'm a banana! Azeem in London NP: Lou Reed - New York ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:09:39 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Torch Song? Well, it certainly has it's bluesy moments! Oh it gets so lonely When you're walking And the streets are full of strangers All the news of home you read Just gives you the blues Just gives you the blues - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of AzeemAK@aol.com Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 1:50 PM To: jlobello@famvid.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Torch Song? In a message dated 15/02/2004 18:39:57 GMT Standard Time, jlobello@famvid.com writes: << Shoot, in my public library the Blue CD is classified as blues and is put in the blues section along with Muddy Waters and the like (those Yoopers, anyway!!) >> Well, categories and categorisation are tricky areas, and definitions can turn into typecasting; that said, I would offer my opinion that Blue (whose many merits I'm sure I don't need to expound here) is a long, long way from being a blues album, in any sense that I understand the term. Obviously my opinion is no more valuable than yours, Jono; as far as your library is concerned, however, I would venture that putting Blue in with Elmore, Muddy and Bessie is possibly simply the result of laziness or ignorance. "Hmmm, it's called Blue, so therefore it must go in the Blues section..." Reminds me of a brain-lazy radio DJ who introduced the latest single by Johnny Hates Jazz, one of the most anodyne and forgettable 80s pop groups, with the words "Now some jazz from Johnny Hates Jazz." Sorry mate, if that's jazz, I'm a banana! Azeem in London NP: Lou Reed - New York ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:46:04 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Torch Song? jlobello wrote: > This morning I heard Kev Mo (is that right?) on NPR (weekend edition). He > sounds great and reminds me of Taj Mahal. Speaking of the Taj-man, does anyone > know what he's up to these days. I saw Taj last summer. He was excellent. He lives in Kauai now, and his last album, as well as his current band, are infused with the Hawaiian sound, mixed with his own style. > Torch song--What the hell is a Torch Song?. According to Webster: Main Entry: torch song Function: noun Etymology: from the phrase to carry a torch for (to be in love) : a popular sentimental song of unrequited love > A few years ago when I was talking to a woman friend of mine, we started > talking about "stalking", and how it was hyped by the media. She used Sting's > I'll Be Watching You as an example of a stalking song. Will, musically I > thought it was an OK song by Sting (it was certainly played enough back then), > but that's as far as it went. I never thought of it in any other context. But, > she was sure in her mind that Sting wrote it expressly to encourage guys to > stalk women. Anyway.... In an interview shortly after leaving The Police, Sting said that although alot of people thought of it as a touching love song, he himself found it kind of creepy. To say he was encouraging guys to be stalkers, is, I think, getting a bit carried away. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:10:46 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Torch Song? --- jlobello wrote: > Group: > This morning I heard Kev Mo (is that right?) on NPR > (weekend edition). He > sounds great and reminds me of Taj Mahal. Keb' Mo' (real name - Kevin Moore - kind of cute, eh? I love his singing and he does a version of Big Yellow Taxi too, I think, so there's a Joni connection. > > in my public library the > Blue CD is classified as blues and is put in the > blues section along with > Muddy Waters and the like (those Yoopers, anyway!!). It may qualify in terms of sadness, but to me, the Blues is also a particular style of music, and I don't think Joni's Blue is that. > A few years ago when I was talking to a woman friend > of mine, we started > talking about "stalking", and how it was hyped by > the media. She used Sting's > I'll Be Watching You as an example of a stalking > song. Will, musically I > thought it was an OK song by Sting (it was certainly > played enough back then), > but that's as far as it went. I never thought of it > in any other context. But, > she was sure in her mind that Sting wrote it > expressly to encourage guys to > stalk women. Anyway.... I don't think it was meant to encourage anyone to stalk anyone, but as a song about a stalker. I think Sting likes to put himself in other people's shoes, even creepy people's shoes! "Moon over Bourbon Street" was based on Anne Rice's vampire novels. > So, I listen to Two Grey Rooms--I like it a lot-- > and then I realize that this > woman rents these two rooms just because they are > located where she knows her > ex-lover has to walk by going to and from work > everyday (except weekends and > holidays). Is that sick, or masochistic or > both??!!!! I mean instead of > suffering like that she should at least > occassionally invite him up for > coffee! Yeah, Two Grey Rooms does sound kind of stalker-y, except for the fact that she's just watching him and not communicating with him. Maybe it's more of a "voyeur" song, LOL. It sounds like an old lover that she was with a long time ago, but they broke up and now maybe they've both moved on, but time has gone by and she has kind of gotten obsessed with him again. Ever look up old girlfriends even if it's just to see if their names are still in the phonebook? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:26:45 EST From: Musicloverrick@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Torch Song? Return-path: From: Musicloverrick@aol.com Full-name: Musicloverrick Message-ID: <160.2b9cdf8c.2d612fa4@aol.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:25:08 EST Subject: Re: Torch Song? To: anima_rising@yahoo.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6800 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/related by demime 0.97c-p1 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was multipart/alternative I just think it's impossible to really classify Joni....I mean she uses so many different influences and styles in her music, I couldn't personally think of where to put any of her albums.&nbsp; They should just create a new section for artists like her.....Does anyone agree?&nbsp; Rick NP Natalie Cole, "Route 66" [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Shania Twain 1 .gif] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:34:30 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Fwd: [NortheastJonifest] meeting across the river -- njc -- Message from Smurph --- murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > To: NortheastJonifest@yahoogroups.com > From: murphycopy@aol.com > Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:26:03 -0500 > Subject: [NortheastJonifest] meeting across the > river -- njc > - --------------------------------- If you had told me a few months ago that I would be waking up on Valentine's Day with a married woman in a motel in northern Jersey, I probably would have chuckled softly to myself and thought, "Boy, I really am a big old slut." But that's what happened this weekend when Jody and I went to visit Mary Grace. (For the record, though, the motel room had two king size beds, so Jody and I were able to resist temptation, although temptation was probably the last thing poor Jody was feeling when she saw me propped up on my bed with my dentures and my leg removed.) Jody and I saw MG on Friday night at her sister Nancy's place. There was a full house, including MG's new husband Jeff, Nancy's husband, MG's mother and grown-up niece and nephew and his girlfriend, plus JMDLers Mags and Brian and Miranda. MG is, well, MG! She is as much fun and as funny as ever, or maybe even more so. Even with her recent adversity, the qualities we all love most about MG, such as her warmth and humor, are still front and center. Her husband seems like a terrific guy, and you can just see how much he loves her. And MG's family is so normal and well adjusted, there's not even an embarrassing cultural stereotype among them! There was a lot of love there for MG, and for the pizza -- which was extraordinary! (Nice segue to food, huh?) Thanks for Mags for setting up this get-together. It was great to see Mags and Miranda and my special friend -- BRIAN, the MAN!!! And thanks to TG for letting me go off to Jersey with his wife, and even paying for the motel room! That's just so liberal! This post is too short because I am still without a home Internet setup, which should happen this week. I thought a few of you would want to hear about visiting MG. I have tagged this e-mail with an NJC if anyone wants to forward it to the big list, which I am still not back on. XO, - --Bob - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NortheastJonifest/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: NortheastJonifest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:24:54 -0800 (PST) From: Debra Worthington Subject: Man from Mars Hello, I was listening to Man from Mars- this version is just her and the piano and her voice of course. I was so relived when I found out years ago that the song is about her cat and not a man. *I fall apart- every time I think of you swallowed by the dark, there is no center to my life now, no grace in my heart*. No man deserves to have someone *fall apart* over. Like Myrtle said to Joni *SNAP OUT OF IT!*. But a cat on the other hand..... Debi previously known as Catgirl >^..^< Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:33:38 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: regrets njc Colin my friend, I have been one of the people who has neglected to write to you over the past many months, and I don't have a good excuse. I get busy with my life and self-absorbed and mean to write and then don't take the time to do so. But I think of you often and try to send you all the good thoughts and energy I can. Please know that you are important to me, and to others, even if it seems like we don't care enough to show it. I'll try to do better in the future, for you and for everyone here. Because you (all of you) do matter to me. Love, Lori ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:39:41 -0800 From: "Russell Bowden" Subject: Torch Singer? JC Aloha, Gang, I've always considered Our Queen to be more of a singer in the French art song or German lieder type of chanteuse. She does sing some torch songs, but that doesn't mean she's necessarily a torch singer...IMHYEO (in my humble yet educated opinion). I'm totally behind the song 'Last Chance Lost' as a modern classic chantuese-y class of song....I LOVE it...Pardon me as I have a slight swoon fest. Beautfiful day here in Honolulu. Russ AKA Passion Fruit NP: MAHLER'S 4TH SYMPHONY 3RD MOMVEMENT, VIENNA PHILHARMONIC, LOREN MAAZEL: CONDUCTER - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Find great local high-speed Internet access value at the MSN High-Speed Marketplace. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:07:11 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Torch Song? **but are Torch Songs supposed to be "blue" songs--sad, depressed, wanting, longing songs? In that way I would classify the whole "Blue" Album as the blues. ** Hmmm, well let's see. As most have said you can't classify Blue as the Blues, not by song structure anyway. I think it's even erroneous to say that all or even most of the songs are sad & depressiing. I WOULD say that they are all intense in their own way, they are all brutally honest and evoke strong emotions, but I would not say they're all "sad" songs: "All I Want" and "My Old Man" are buoyant, almost joyous love songs. "Little Green" is of course full of melancholy but also full of hope, especially if you don't know the story behind it. "Carey" is another upbeat and fun celebration-type song. The title track is unabashedly a mournful song, no doubt about it. A sad song. But then it's followed by 2 that aren't sad, "California" & "This Flight Tonight"...so we're 7 songs into a 10-track record and we've only heard 1 SAD song. Next up is "River", another sad one, but then there's "A Case of You" which is no doubt a beautiful and a damn-near perfect love song, but it's as much as a declaration of love as it is a torch song of love lost. And then comes "Last Time I Saw Richard" which I would also stop short of calling a 'sad' song. Philosophical, introspective, personal, honest...but sad? I dunno. I think the cover of the record and the intense honest emotions that Joni pours out all over it can give the impression that the whole record is sad. But to simply call it sad or depressing is to sell it short - I think it goes MUCH deeper than that for the most part. Bob NP: Courtney Love, "Hello" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:44:21 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: Re: Torch Song? Bob I'd knew I'd generate comments with those statement--but I'd would have thought I'd get a rise out of you about my comment on Two Grey Rooms--comparing it (indirectly) to I'll Be Watching You by Sting. For the most part I agree with you about the songs on Blue, with the exception of Little Green and This Flight Tonight. This Flight Tonight expresses a huge amount of regret for getting on that stupid plane in the first place--it's a song of escape instead of trying to deal with her problems head on--and the regret that her decision to leave generated. Little Green, although it does express some hope, it makes me want to cry every time I here it. This one song alone is the expression of the biggest mistake Joni had ever made in her life, and the self blame and self recrimination that she suffered because of that decision. She should have told Chuck Mitchell to go to hell on their wedding night when he dropped his "bombshell" on her. This is the one life changing event that changed her forever. This is the one event that I would try to circumvent if I had the capability to time travel (don't laugh). It is probably the one event that caused Joni to retreat within herself and become so creative with all the great music she brought forth. None the less, it's still heartbreaking. Fortunately there was a happy ending, but those two (her and Kilauren) still have their unpleasant moments together. None the less if it was within my power I would try to insure her happiness, and would gladly forego all the wonderful music she produced. Jono ----- Original Message ----- From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com To: jlobello@famvid.com ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 7:07 PM Subject: Re: Torch Song? **but are Torch Songs supposed to be "blue" songs--sad, depressed, wanting, longing songs? In that way I would classify the whole "Blue" Album as the blues. ** Hmmm, well let's see. As most have said you can't classify Blue as the Blues, not by song structure anyway. I think it's even erroneous to say that all or even most of the songs are sad & depressiing. I WOULD say that they are all intense in their own way, they are all brutally honest and evoke strong emotions, but I would not say they're all "sad" songs: "All I Want" and "My Old Man" are buoyant, almost joyous love songs. "Little Green" is of course full of melancholy but also full of hope, especially if you don't know the story behind it. "Carey" is another upbeat and fun celebration-type song. The title track is unabashedly a mournful song, no doubt about it. A sad song. But then it's followed by 2 that aren't sad, "California" & "This Flight Tonight"...so we're 7 songs into a 10-track record and we've only heard 1 SAD song. Next up is "River", another sad one, but then there's "A Case of You" which is no doubt a beautiful and a damn-near perfect love song, but it's as much as a declaration of love as it is a torch song of love lost. And then comes "Last Time I Saw Richard" which I would also stop short of calling a 'sad' song. Philosophical, introspective, personal, honest...but sad? I dunno. I think the cover of the record and the intense honest emotions that Joni pours out all over it can give the impression that the whole record is sad. But to simply call it sad or depressing is to sell it short - I think it goes MUCH deeper than that for the most part. Bob NP: Courtney Love, "Hello" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:07:10 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Torch Song? **I'd knew I'd generate comments with those statement--but I'd would have thought I'd get a rise out of you about my comment on Two Grey Rooms--comparing it (indirectly) to I'll Be Watching You by Sting.** I thought it was a neat observation...two melodically hypnotic stalking songs, except with Sting's "Every Move You Make" I always felt like it was a post-breakup song where he had had a prior relationship, whereas in Two Grey Rooms the character is obsessed with someone that they never met. Both are superb songs, needless to say. **Little Green, although it does express some hope, it makes me want to cry every time I hear it. This one song alone is the expression of the biggest mistake Joni had ever made in her life** Well, it certainly has that effect on me NOW, but it didn't before I knew the truth behind it. That's why I said what I did as a conditional comment. And not to be cynical, but would Joni's career taken the same path had she not put her baby up for adoption? She probably would have accepted a menial-paying job to support them both and that would have been that and her body of work, especially as it is, would not exist. I'm not saying that her decision was a 'mistake' or not (I would tend to define it as a supreme sacrificial act of bravery & love), it's just the way things played out, and thankfully she got her happy ending, and Kilauren's adoptive parents were given a blessing that they otherwise would not have had. Bob NP: Kelly Joe Phelps, "Taylor John" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:53:46 -0500 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: Fwd: [NortheastJonifest] meeting across the river -- njc Begin forwarded message: > From: murphycopy@aol.com > Date: Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:26:03 PM US/Eastern > To: NortheastJonifest@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [NortheastJonifest] meeting across the river -- njc > Reply-To: NortheastJonifest@yahoogroups.com > > If you had told me a few months ago that I would be waking up on > Valentine's Day with a married woman in a motel in northern Jersey, I > probably would have chuckled softly to myself and thought, "Boy, I > really am a big old slut." But that's what happened this weekend when > Jody and I went to visit Mary Grace. (For the record, though, the > motel room had two king size beds, so Jody and I were able to resist > temptation, although temptation was probably the last thing poor Jody > was feeling when she saw me propped up on my bed with my dentures and > my leg removed.) > > Jody and I saw MG on Friday night at her sister Nancy's place. There > was a full house, including MG's new husband Jeff, Nancy's husband, > MG's mother and grown-up niece and nephew and his girlfriend, plus > JMDLers Mags and Brian and Miranda. > > MG is, well, MG! She is as much fun and as funny as ever, or maybe > even more so. Even with her recent adversity, the qualities we all > love most about MG, such as her warmth and humor, are still front and > center. Her husband seems like a terrific guy, and you can just see > how much he loves her. And MG's family is so normal and well adjusted, > there's not even an embarrassing cultural stereotype among them! There > was a lot of love there for MG, and for the pizza -- which was > extraordinary! (Nice segue to food, huh?) > > Thanks for Mags for setting up this get-together. It was great to see > Mags and Miranda and my special friend -- BRIAN, the MAN!!! And thanks > to TG for letting me go off to Jersey with his wife, and even paying > for the motel room! That's just so liberal! > > This post is too short because I am still without a home Internet > setup, which should happen this week. I thought a few of you would > want to hear about visiting MG. I have tagged this e-mail with an NJC > if anyone wants to forward it to the big list, which I am still not > back on. > > XO, > > --Bob > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NortheastJonifest/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > NortheastJonifest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 22:06:09 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Playing problems follow up --- don whiteman wrote: > I have had the nerve conduction study done on my > left arm and I have moderate > damage to my ulnar nerve. > > I sought a second opinion and visited a neuro > surgeon last wednesday. he ran a > long series of tests and I failed dismally on each. > The bottom line was that I need surgery. They will > perfom a medial > epicondylectomy next Friday. The recovery time is > around 6-10 weeks. However > he said that I should get about 80% feeling back in > my finger tips. Best of luck with this, Don, and please let us know how it works out. I've had problems with carpal tunnel syndrome, which isn't quite the same, I guess, but sometimes my fingers go numb when I'm playing the guitar and it really is very annoying and I hope it doesn't get worse. I seem to get some relief if I do exercises with my hands and try to avoid keeping them in the same position all the time. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:01:40 -0800 (PST) From: Debra Worthington Subject: Re: Torch Song? Hi Bob and everyone, Nice to be back with the family...sorry for being away so long...kinda like college. Well, Little Green is a great song. In my opinion there is just no way that if Joni did keep her child that she would have forgotten about her music. There is just no way. She is like a Mozart, or a Picasso, or a Beethoven. She needed to express. With the catalogs of music that she has written, I could not comprehend her not doing something with her gift. Just imagine little Kelly hanging out with Mom and Graham. All that love. I wouldn't be surprised if she would have married Graham and had more children. I think Kelly might have made her settle down rather then stunted her talent. I think Joni was too young and scared to death to make it on her own with a little chld to raise. And the era that she came from, I don't blame her. Things today are so much different. The main thing though is she did what she did and made alot of great music on her journey. And for that she is the most amazing woman that ever lived! Debi SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: **I'd knew I'd generate comments with those statement--but I'd would have thought I'd get a rise out of you about my comment on Two Grey Rooms--comparing it (indirectly) to I'll Be Watching You by Sting.** I thought it was a neat observation...two melodically hypnotic stalking songs, except with Sting's "Every Move You Make" I always felt like it was a post-breakup song where he had had a prior relationship, whereas in Two Grey Rooms the character is obsessed with someone that they never met. Both are superb songs, needless to say. **Little Green, although it does express some hope, it makes me want to cry every time I hear it. This one song alone is the expression of the biggest mistake Joni had ever made in her life** Well, it certainly has that effect on me NOW, but it didn't before I knew the truth behind it. That's why I said what I did as a conditional comment. And not to be cynical, but would Joni's career taken the same path had she not put her baby up for adoption? She probably would have accepted a menial-paying job to support them both and that would have been that and her body of work, especially as it is, would not exist. I'm not saying that her decision was a 'mistake' or not (I would tend to define it as a supreme sacrificial act of bravery & love), it's just the way things played out, and thankfully she got her happy ending, and Kilauren's adoptive parents were given a blessing that they otherwise would not have had. Bob NP: Kelly Joe Phelps, "Taylor John" Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 23:15:59 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: Re: Torch Song? Bob, I think that her initiative and drive would have overcome such obstacles (such as menial jobs), and eventually her parents would have helped her out with the child despite moral sensibilities of that time. Remember, those "times were a'changing". Sure, her body of work would have been different, but I feel that she would have shined just as brightly. Once Elliot Roberts ran into her, her problems would have been over-kid or not. That guy was (and still) is nuts about her, and would have gone to bat for her under any circumstance. Once she'd made it out to Laurel Canyon she probably would have ended marrying Graham (or David?--nah!), and raised her kid. Would she have ended up "kicking the kitchen door off it's hinges" like her paternal (great) grandmother did? I doubt it. Naaah! She has too much drive and motivation, not to mention her talent, to let that happen. She would have kept on pluggin', and her daughter might have been singing with her right now. Speaking of which, do you think that could still happen? Kilauren sounds just like her, but can she sing? Jono ----- Original Message ----- From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com To: jlobello@famvid.com ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 9:07 PM Subject: Re: Torch Song? **I'd knew I'd generate comments with those statement--but I'd would have thought I'd get a rise out of you about my comment on Two Grey Rooms--comparing it (indirectly) to I'll Be Watching You by Sting.** I thought it was a neat observation...two melodically hypnotic stalking songs, except with Sting's "Every Move You Make" I always felt like it was a post-breakup song where he had had a prior relationship, whereas in Two Grey Rooms the character is obsessed with someone that they never met. Both are superb songs, needless to say. **Little Green, although it does express some hope, it makes me want to cry every time I hear it. This one song alone is the expression of the biggest mistake Joni had ever made in her life** Well, it certainly has that effect on me NOW, but it didn't before I knew the truth behind it. That's why I said what I did as a conditional comment. And not to be cynical, but would Joni's career taken the same path had she not put her baby up for adoption? She probably would have accepted a menial-paying job to support them both and that would have been that and her body of work, especially as it is, would not exist. I'm not saying that her decision was a 'mistake' or not (I would tend to define it as a supreme sacrificial act of bravery & love), it's just the way things played out, and thankfully she got her happy ending, and Kilauren's adoptive parents were given a blessing that they otherwise would not have had. Bob NP: Kelly Joe Phelps, "Taylor John" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #73 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)