From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #46 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, January 26 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 046 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Giving Fred Simon his due [Catherine McKay ] Jack Johnson (NJC) [Garret ] jody blue eyes njc [Garret ] Re: HELL TEST (NJC) [Steve Polifka ] Re: Dilemma ......njc [Steve Polifka ] Re: Dilemma ......njc [Steve Polifka ] Re: modulations, etc. - Amelia Technical content - long ["Marian Russell] Van Ronk sings Joni [Ed Beauchamp ] Re: Van Ronk sings Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] re: pedal steel ["mia ortlieb" ] welcome John G (njc) [anne@sandstrom.com] re: Neil and Joni Quiz ["mia ortlieb" ] Re: modulations, etc. - Amelia Technical content - long [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Amelia and chords [steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Tedder)] Re: modulations, etc. - Amelia Technical content - long ["Marian Russell] Re: modulations, etc. - Amelia Technical content - long ["Marian Russell] RE: Jack Johnson (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] It's you must go and I must bide - NJC [Scott Price ] just a hello [HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com] Pedal Steel ["Paul Castle" ] Re: modulations, etc. - Amelia Technical content - long [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: modulations, etc. - Amelia Technical content - long ["Marian Russell] Re: Neil and Joni Quiz now njc [Randy Remote ] Re: Giving Fred Simon his due [FredNow@aol.com] For Free & Twisted [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Welcome Fellow Republicans ["Norman Pennington" ] Re: Welcome Fellow Republicans [Musicloverrick@aol.com] Joni's birthday [hell@ihug.co.nz] Joni mention [hell@ihug.co.nz] Re: Joni's birthday [Catherine McKay ] Re: Welcome warm little stories njc [vince ] Re: Joni's birthday [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Welcome Fellow Republicans njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Another Joni reference [hell@ihug.co.nz] Re: Joni's birthday [hell@ihug.co.nz] Re: Pedal Steel (njc) [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #24 [PassScribe@aol.com] NJC New York's Bottom Line Closes [Gary Zack Subject: Re: Giving Fred Simon his due --- FredNow@aol.com wrote: > But I'm baffled by this sentence: "For people who > have nothing from [James Taylor], either [version] > would be a fine introduction." > > Given the audience you're addressing here, is it > possible that there exists a stone Joni fan who, if > not also a stone JT fan, does not own any of his > work? How can that be? The horror ... Err, umm, I'm not particularly a JT fan. Somehow he just doesn't do much for me. I'm not sure why, and it probably doesn't matter. But I do have an album or two of his anyway. Fred also said: > I really love posts whose subjects are > along the lines of "giving Fred Simon his due." They > float my boat. > > I'm grateful your co-worker dug my Songs Of My > Youth, Vol. 1 album; thanks for turning her on to > it. (By the way, I took the "njc" appellation of my > reply because, as you know, my album features piano > arrangements of three Joni songs.) You'd better get > it back, Jim ... its availability can't be > guaranteed in perpetuity. Just tell her: "No, my > sister, you've got to buy your own!" Here now I must finally jump in and give Fred his due, which is long overdue. So it's overdue due. I am the proud owner of Fred's "Songs of my youth, vol. 1" and can attest to the fact that this music is tasteful and beautiful and, if you don't find yourself trying to sing or hum along with it, then there's something wrong with you. Here's the track listing: - - Both sides now (JM) - - For free (JM) - - Michael from mountains (JM) - - Blackbird (Lennon&McCartney) - - Julia (L&M) - - Here, there & everywhere (L&M) - - For no one (L&M) - - The times, they are a-changin' (Dylan) - - Maurice (our very own Fred Simon) - - Ode to Joy (Ludwig Someone) Yes, do buy Fred's music. Fred, important piece of missing info: where/how can people get these CDs? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:42:45 +0000 From: Garret Subject: Jack Johnson (NJC) hi Kate (sorry it took so long to comment on this:-) I got lend of the cd from an american class mate (he has introduced me to the wonderful worlds of Phish and Dave Matthews); it is his most recent i think called On and On (or something like). Im liking it a lot. It's very chilled out and laid back (just what one needs on hot, stuffy hours on the tube!). I may have to invest in some of this:-) Does JJ do the live cricuit regularly? I have the feeling he would be very impressive. GARRET np- Bjork, All Is Full Of Love - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:48:27 +0000 From: Garret Subject: jody blue eyes njc Jody; Happiest of happy birthdays (hope im not too late where you're from!!) I dont have an email address for you anymore so i do indeed hope you see this:-) Did i ever mention that you turned me into quite a Tom Waits fan?? GARRET np- Bjork, Pagan Poetry - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 08:57:58 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: HELL TEST (NJC) Thanks for the link-LOL! My score: 171. And I think I lied (quite acidentally on one of the questions...) See what happens when you've been a professional musician, free-lance artist, work at a college and did some retail? Well, maybe it was the fact that my VERY FIRST JOB was a bartending position in a gay bar- at 19... (I'm NOT going to tell you what my second job was...) Steve At 10:58 AM 1/25/2004 +0100, Gillian Apter wrote: >Well, did this Hell Test... this is the link kindly sent to me by Suze. > > > >And it's really not my fault... it's all that alcohol I used to drink, and >honest, those drugs, I only tried them the once.. or twice... then I had that >period of sexual activity, but I was a lot younger and experimenting with >life... .... honest!!!! > >Score: 177. (Don't tell my mum). > >Gill (in Madrid) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:03:37 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Dilemma ......njc Life is about choices, right? but i can't help thinking about an old cliche': A picture's worth a thousand words... At 10:12 AM 1/26/2004 +1100, ash wrote: >Dilemmaa joke?......well seeing all you debating this!! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Guy Varley > To: Ashley Millington > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 2:56 AM > Subject: Dilemma > > > > > Here's a dilemma for you.... > > > With all your honour and dignity what would you do? > > This test only has one question, but it's a very important one. > > Please don't answer it without giving it some serious thought. > > The test features an unlikely, completely fictional situation, where you > will have to make a decision one way or the other. > > Remember that your answer needs to be honest, yet spontaneous. > > Please scroll down slowly and consider each line - this is important for the > test to work accurately. > > > > You're in Florida... in Miami, to be exact. > > There is great chaos going on around you, caused by a hurricane and severe > floods. There are huge masses of water all over you. > > You are a newspaper photographer and you are in the middle of this great > disaster. > > The situation is nearly hopeless. > > You're trying to shoot very impressive photos. > > There are houses and people floating around you, disappearing into the > water. > > Nature is showing all its destructive power and is ripping everything away > with it. > > Suddenly you see a man in the water, he is fighting for his life, trying not > to be taken away by the masses of water and mud. > > You move closer. Somehow the man looks familiar. > > Suddenly you know who it is - it's George W Bush! > > At the same time you notice that the raging waters are about to take him > away, forever. > > You have two options. > > You can save him or you can take the best photo of your life. > > So you can save the life of George W Bush or you can shoot a Pulitzer > Prize-winning photo, a unique photo displaying the death of one of the > world's most powerful men. > > > > So here's the question (please give an honest answer): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would you select colour film or rather go with the classic simplicity of > black and white? > > __________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:09:58 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Dilemma ......njc I want to make it perfectly clear that I made the decision based on what GW himself taught me from his time at the White House. Money, power, presige and fame are worth more than a single human life. Steve At 09:03 AM 1/26/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Life is about choices, right? but i can't help >thinking about an old cliche': > >A picture's worth a thousand words... > > >At 10:12 AM 1/26/2004 +1100, ash wrote: >>Dilemmaa joke?......well seeing all you debating this!! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Guy Varley >> To: Ashley Millington >> Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 2:56 AM >> Subject: Dilemma >> >> >> >> >> Here's a dilemma for you.... >> >> >> With all your honour and dignity what would you do? >> >> This test only has one question, but it's a very important one. >> >> Please don't answer it without giving it some serious thought. >> >> The test features an unlikely, completely fictional situation, where you >> will have to make a decision one way or the other. >> >> Remember that your answer needs to be honest, yet spontaneous. >> >> Please scroll down slowly and consider each line - this is important for >the >> test to work accurately. >> >> >> >> You're in Florida... in Miami, to be exact. >> >> There is great chaos going on around you, caused by a hurricane and severe >> floods. There are huge masses of water all over you. >> >> You are a newspaper photographer and you are in the middle of this great >> disaster. >> >> The situation is nearly hopeless. >> >> You're trying to shoot very impressive photos. >> >> There are houses and people floating around you, disappearing into the >> water. >> >> Nature is showing all its destructive power and is ripping everything away >> with it. >> >> Suddenly you see a man in the water, he is fighting for his life, trying >not >> to be taken away by the masses of water and mud. >> >> You move closer. Somehow the man looks familiar. >> >> Suddenly you know who it is - it's George W Bush! >> >> At the same time you notice that the raging waters are about to take him >> away, forever. >> >> You have two options. >> >> You can save him or you can take the best photo of your life. >> >> So you can save the life of George W Bush or you can shoot a Pulitzer >> Prize-winning photo, a unique photo displaying the death of one of the >> world's most powerful men. >> >> >> >> So here's the question (please give an honest answer): >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Would you select colour film or rather go with the classic simplicity of >> black and white? >> >> __________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:12:42 -0500 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: modulations, etc. - Amelia Technical content - long - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Bobsart48@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 14:05:59 EST > I know I am late to this, and I have not read much since Marian > posted this 5 > days ago, but Marian's notation mad me think: > am bm > vi iii/V > six white vapor trails across the > could also be written > > am bm > ii/V iii/V > six white vapor trails across the > > suggesting that we are sort of inside of the key of G > for the moment. Yes, I agree, Bob. I think that's a better way to show it. > However, I think Marian is right that this is > completely in the key of C. I'm glad somebody agrees with me!! I guess I wasn't totally out to lunch on this one! > I would love to hear someone knowledgable > discuss this, either on list or off > list. I think it would be kind of fun to work out analyses of all of her songs - kind of like the guitar section. Since sometimes analysis *is* subjective, we could hash it out maybe in a separate list, like the Wanderer. I don't know if there are enough of us with enough time and interest to devote to this undertaking, however. It's just an idea. > By the way, ignoring the susp's and 7'ths and 9'ths > is a bit tough - Yes, I totally agree. I think it is these that make her music really interesting - more so than the actual chord progressions themselves in many cases, at least for the guitar songs. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 07:29:38 -0800 (PST) From: Ed Beauchamp Subject: Van Ronk sings Joni Hi All, Stefan Grossman's Guitar Workshop has released a DVD of a Dave Van Ronk concert from 1980 in which Van Ronk sings "Urge For Going" and "Song For A Seagull". Check it out at: http://guitarvideos.com/dvd/13094dvd.htm Ed __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:55:32 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Van Ronk sings Joni Thanks for that, Ed...van Ronk was one of Joni's heftiest early champions, and he recorded & performed many of her songs: Both Sides Now (which he called "Clouds") Chelsea Morning River Song To A Seagull That Song About The Midway Urge For Going In other cover news, Chaka Khan is doing "Two Grey Rooms" live in a recent show. After hearing her killer take on "Man From Mars" I hope that a recording of 2GR is not far behind! Bob NP: Green Day, "Brat" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:00:49 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: pedal steel Paul wrote: <> I, too, love the pedal steel on the Blue album. My favorite is the part from "California" where Joni sings: "oh it gets so lonely, when you're walking, and the streets are full of strangers......." When I hear stripped down versions of this song without the pedal steel, my mind automatically fills in the void with the pedal steel melody. Sometimes I even hum it! Mia _________________________________________________________________ Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software  optimizes dial-up to the max! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/plus&ST=1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13:44 -0500 (EST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: welcome John G (njc) Welcome, John G. I find the time of your arrival here particularly interesting, since it more or less coincides with the departure from this world of John Guerin (In case you don't know, he played drums on some of Joni's albums, plus they were involved romantically.) Funny world, eh? It's always nice to hear new voices. Looking forward to many more posts from you as you discover the Joni territory still unexplored by you! lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:26:19 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Neil and Joni Quiz Janine wrote: <> Janine, I saw the Greendale tour last summer and it was awesome! Be sure to bring some binoculars if you're sitting far away from the stage. You won't want to miss the drama that goes on with the cast of characters. The themes are humorous, yet serious and deep. (Have you ever seen Neil's film "Human Highway?" - typical Neil humour combined with the seriousness of socio-political issues, and one of my all-time favorite indy films!) Luckily for me, the amphitheater I went to had additional big screens set up. Apparently Neil's coming to Milwaukee again for another show - back by popular demand!! In "The Last Waltz," Joni appears to be sort of melancholy and has a look like she's almost lost. But that's just my opinion. She also seems very annoyed at the end, when Neil is hanging all over her - but who wouldn't be? I heard an unconfirmed rumour that the film's producers had to touch-up the film to get rid of all the coke that was on Neil's face. Anyone else hear that one? Mia _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online virus check for your PC here, from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:39:40 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: modulations, etc. - Amelia Technical content - long Marian, how are you using the term "chord progressions" if you (seemingly) make a distinction between the "chords themselves" and the suspensions, 7s & 9s? Doesn't the term "chord" need to account for ALL the notes sounded? DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:23 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Tedder) Subject: Re: Amelia and chords Thanks to everybody who emailed me and thanks to everyone for this wonderful discussion about Amelia and the chords. I've been thinking so hard about modulating, I IV V or VI Eb etc then I realised I just wish I'd written the b....dy thing! Yours in sheer envy, Joni Anita ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:44:21 -0500 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: modulations, etc. - Amelia Technical content - long - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Dflahm@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:39:40 EST > Marian, how are you using the term "chord progressions" > if you (seemingly) make a distinction between the "chords > themselves" and the suspensions, 7s & 9s? Doesn't the > term "chord" need to account for ALL the notes sounded? > DAVID LAHM By "chord progressions", I mean movement/changes of chords between I, ii, ii, IV, V, vi, vii, ii/V, iii/V, or whatever, etc., including modulating into a new key. A "chord" can have all the Joni-trimmings - i.e., 7s, 9s, sus's, 11ths, 13ths, etc. - and still be a I or a ii, or a ii/V or a vi or a v or whatever. If we ignore the trimmings, it's easier to see what the actual chord progressions are. I think Joni's chords are very interesting - by that I mean the basic chords with all the trimmings. The chord progressions themselves are not always that exciting. Hejira is a beautiful song. The lyrics are to die for. The chord progressions are mostly between I, IV and V during the singing part, and for the intro/interlude (as Howard calls it), it's ii and IMO IV/IV (Bb6/9/sus4) or even possibly rather the V7/9 (FF[A]CEbG - the 7th being in the bass, bottom string) resolving into the root of C - "I'm travelling in some vehicle". Hopefully this makes some kind of sense! Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:04:43 -0500 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: modulations, etc. - Amelia Technical content - long - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Marian Russell" Reply-To: Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:44:21 -0500 Should NOT have said: > or even possibly rather the V7/9 (FF[A]CEbG) The tones of the guitar strings, in order, are Eb Bb FFGC Howard calls this Eb6/9 in his transcription, but it could also be called Bb6/9/sus4 - i.e. IV/IV in C. THis is not so far removed from C. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:10:26 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Jack Johnson (NJC) Yes I think he still tours a lot these days...did you know he was a pro surfer & also a surfing filmaker? He first came to the national spotlight when he was on the cover of surfer magazine cuz he was smashed up pretty bad while surfing...anyway, lots of accomplishments from someone so young... He's got that mellow surfer chilled back style for sure! > It's very chilled out and laid back (just what one needs on hot, stuffy hours on the tube!). I may have to invest in some of this:-) Does JJ do the live cricuit regularly? I have the feeling he would be very impressive. GARRET< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:18:39 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: It's you must go and I must bide - NJC He loved, and was loved. Kakki's father has passed on. "Charlie" died Thursday night during hospitalization for an infection which was likely the result of advanced dementia. He was 92 years old. Kakki's dad grew up in Pennsylvania and along with her mother Dorothy migrated west to California shortly before WWII. When the war broke out Charles was nearly 30 years old but felt the need to enlist. Prior to his military service, Charlie worked in retail management, and after the war ended he continued retailing for many years. He later retired from a career with a major Southern California aircraft manufacturer. Charles was drawn to the arts, and instilled a great appreciation of music and painting in his only child. Those who have read Kakki's posts to this list know about her love of the arts, but may not have known, until now, that she was given an early education in creative processes by her father, who enjoyed painting and associating with musicians. Theirs was a special relationship...one of love, trust, and respect. I know Kakki will miss "Daddy" for the rest of her life but I also know she will remember him as a kind and gentle man who gave her inspiration, and "space," to become what she wanted. Which is, in my opinion, a woman of heart and mind. I spoke with Kakki last night and she is coping well. She will be away from a computer for a while, spending time with her mother. A private service is planned. As selected by the family, "Danny Boy" will be played. - --------------------------------------------------------- Danny Boy O Danny Boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling From glen to glen, and down the mountain side. The summer's gone and all the roses falling; It's you, it's you must go and I must bide. But come ye back when summer's in the meadow, Or when the valley's hushed and white with snow I'll be there in sunshine or in shadow; Oh Danny Boy, oh Danny Boy, I love you so! But when ye come, and all the flow'rs are dying If I am dead, as dead I may well be. Ye'll come and find the place where I am lying. And kneel and say an Ave there for me. And I shall hear, though soft you tread above me; And all my grave will warmer, sweeter be. For you will bend and tell me that you love And I shall sleep in peace until you come to me! - -------------------------------------------------------- Sleep peacefully, Charlie. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:24:19 EST From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: just a hello been a while i know, wanted to say hello. god bless joni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:55:25 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Pedal Steel mia wrote >I, too, love the pedal steel on the Blue album. My favorite is the part >from "California" where Joni sings: "oh it gets so lonely, when you're >walking, and the streets are full of strangers......." When I hear stripped >down versions of this song without the pedal steel, my mind automatically >fills in the void with the pedal steel melody. Sometimes I even hum it! Trying to hum it right now - over "more about the war and the bloody changes - wo-oh - Will you take me as I am....." and through the long fade. This song always cheers me up and makes me want to sing along, but humming Sneeky Pete is bloody hard. Love that little Joni trill on the last 'take me as I ammmm' - at end of the fade . I'm getting funny looks! PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:01:34 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: modulations, etc. - Amelia Technical content - long Thanks, Marian. I can't foresee ever agreeing with you when you say "if we ignore the trimmings, it's easier to see what the actual chord progressions are." It's one thing to plot out/follow/chart the ROOT MOVEMENT...but if a chord is heard as an audible reality then every note in it has a consequence and none can be ignored. A C7th is a C7th and a Gmi7th is a Gmi7th. But a C7th with a suspended 4th is partaking of both C7th and Gmi7th. It can be played between the other two and the three in sequence will make sense as a movement from something to something else. My view. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:09:23 -0500 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: modulations, etc. - Amelia Technical content - long - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Dflahm@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:01:34 EST > A C7th is a C7th and a Gmi7th is a Gmi7th. But a C7th with a > suspended 4th is partaking of both C7th and Gmi7th. > It can be played between the other two and the three > in sequence will make sense as a movement from something > to something else. I don't disagree with this. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:14:46 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Neil and Joni Quiz now njc mia ortlieb wrote: > In "The Last Waltz," Joni appears to be sort of melancholy and has a look > like she's almost lost. But that's just my opinion. She also seems very > annoyed at the end, when Neil is hanging all over her - but who wouldn't be? > I heard an unconfirmed rumour that the film's producers had to touch-up > the film to get rid of all the coke that was on Neil's face. Anyone else > hear that one? Yes, the story goes that Scorsese had to have each frame retouched by hand, at great expense. Something like $40,000 to fix it, if memory serves. In addition, alot of after-the-fact overdubbing took place- (in this "live" concert film), particularly Danko's bass playing, because it was so bad. sfgate says: Drugs were everywhere. A room backstage had been painted white and decorated with noses cut off plastic masks while a tape loop of sniffing played in the background. A gauzy haze of cocaine lies over the movie. Never mind the reports that close-ups of Neil Young had to be doctored in post- production to remove incriminating evidence from his nostrils; his jaw- grinding intensity stands in stark contrast to the regal bearing of Muddy Waters. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:42:36 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Giving Fred Simon his due Thanks, Catherine, for the very kind words; much appreciated. Anyone interested in owning one of their very own just email me offlist at frednow@aol.com and I'll hook you up. However, if doing so, please do it soon. It's looking likely (although I'm not counting any chickens yet) that one of the tracks, Dylan's "The Times They Are A'Changin'," will be appearing on a forthcoming Windham Hill "Americana" theme sampler and if it does, I will have to pull it off Songs Of My Youth, Vol. 1. If that happens, I will probably reconfigure the album, substituting something else for that song, and re-release it as Songs Of My Youth, v1.2 And please let me use this brief moment in the spotlight to suggest to everyone that copies of some of my other albums, which feature mostly my own compositions, are still available. Email me for info. - -Fred In an email dated Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:14:05 pm GMT, Catherine McKay writes: >Here now I must finally jump in and give Fred his due, >which is long overdue. So it's overdue due. > >I am the proud owner of Fred's "Songs of my youth, >vol. 1" and can attest to the fact that this music is >tasteful and beautiful and, if you don't find yourself >trying to sing or hum along with it, then there's >something wrong with you. > >Here's the track listing: >- Both sides now (JM) >- For free (JM) >- Michael from mountains (JM) >- Blackbird (Lennon&McCartney) >- Julia (L&M) >- Here, there & everywhere (L&M) >- For no one (L&M) >- The times, they are a-changin' (Dylan) >- Maurice (our very own Fred Simon) >- Ode to Joy (Ludwig Someone) > >Yes, do buy Fred's music. > >Fred, important piece of missing info: where/how can >people get these CDs? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:22:26 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: For Free & Twisted Here's a couple of freebies - I'm sure that everyone's heard Joni doing "For Free" but maybe some of you haven't heard the Lambert, Hendricks & Ross version of "Twisted". Both of these, along with a classic Monty Python sketch can be found here: http://www.arts-on-the-net.com/misc%20items.htm Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:39:44 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Welcome Fellow Republicans My Navy son sent me this... Begin quote: A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat and was for distribution of all wealth. She felt deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican which she expressed openly. One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to higher taxes on the rich & more welfare programs. In the middle of her heartfelt diatribe based upon the lectures she had from her far left professors at her school, he stopped her and asked her point blank, how she was doing in school. She answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain. That she had to study all the time, never had time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of spending all her time studying. That she was taking a more difficult curriculum. Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Mary?" She replied, "Mary is barely getting by", she continued, "all she has is barely a 2.0 GPA" adding, "and all she takes are easy classes and she never studies." But to explain further she continued emotionally, "But Mary is so very popular on campus, college for her is a blast, she goes to all the parties all the time and very often doesn't even show up for classes because she is too hung over." Her father then asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your 4.0 GPA and give it to her friend who only had a 2.0." He continued, "That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair equal distribution of GPA." The daughter visibly shocked by the fathers suggestion angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair! I worked really hard for mine, I did without and Mary has done little or nothing, she played while I worked real hard!" The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Republican Party." End quote ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:53:28 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Welcome Fellow Republicans I apologize for forgetting the NJC tag. Please forgive me. bp - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman Pennington" To: "_JMDL" Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 3:39 PM Subject: Welcome Fellow Republicans > My Navy son sent me this... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:00:57 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Welcome Fellow Republicans njc So..the moral of the story is that the poor are lazy ne'er-do'wells who want to ride on the backs of the wealthy, who earned their money through sweat and toil.....? I guess that never occurred to me, and I will be voting for Bush after all. .....wait a second......Bush is rich because he was born rich..... most of the super wealthy were born into their economic strata.... I have to wonder if Dick Cheney is so seldom seen because he is busy firing off emails like this all over the net. RR, mystified as to why non millionaires think the GOP is working for them Norman Pennington wrote: > My Navy son sent me this... > > Begin quote: > > A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many > others her age she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat and was > for distribution of all wealth. She felt deeply ashamed that her father was > a rather staunch Republican which she expressed openly. > > One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to > higher taxes on the rich & more welfare programs. In the middle of her > heartfelt diatribe based upon the lectures she had from her far left > professors at her school, he stopped her and asked her point blank, how she > was doing in school. > > She answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that > it was tough to maintain. That she had to study all the time, never had time > to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time > for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of > spending all her time studying. That she was taking a more difficult > curriculum. > > Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Mary?" > > She replied, "Mary is barely getting by", she continued, "all she has is > barely a 2.0 GPA" adding, "and all she takes are easy classes and she never > studies." But to explain further she continued emotionally, "But Mary is so > very popular on campus, college for her is a blast, she goes to all the > parties all the time and very often doesn't even show up for classes because > she is too hung over." > > Her father then asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office > and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your 4.0 GPA and give it to her friend who > only had a 2.0." He continued, "That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and > certainly that would be a fair equal distribution of GPA." > > The daughter visibly shocked by the fathers suggestion angrily fired back, > "That wouldn't be fair! I worked really hard for mine, I did without and > Mary has done little or nothing, she played while I worked real hard!" > > The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Republican Party." > > End quote ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:06:59 EST From: Musicloverrick@aol.com Subject: Re: Welcome Fellow Republicans ROFL I don't think it's QUITE that simple.....Seems to me that the Republicans are not only wanting to keep their share, but everyone's....They want the middle and lower income people to carry the country and pay taxes, but when they get taxed on their precious higher incomes they start crying foul....But of course people in my income bracket don't have fancy lawyers to help them wriggle into deductions on almost everything under the sun either, so what I pay out in taxes STAYS in the government's pocket! Rick [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Shania Twain 1 .gif] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:53:43 +1300 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Joni's birthday I'm not sure if this has been posted already (I don't think so), but this is how Joni spent her 60th birthday. Check out: http://www.thebluevoodoo.com/index.html There are two photos (the first two) on the photo page, and a short item on the front page in the "News" section. There are three samples of their music in the "Music" section. Hell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:58:00 +1300 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Joni mention We recently had a large music festival here in Auckland, called "Big Day Out" (which is part of a larger series) and there was a (very) brief mention of Joni in one of the artist interviews. Hell From The New Zealand Herald: Minimal electro-punk rocker queen hits the Barrier 15.01.2004 By GRAHAM REID There are places you'd expect to find electro-rocker Peaches: in the pages of rock magazines doing a photo shoot with Iggy Pop; her last album (with the X-rated title) in the best of 2003 lists; dancing on a bar in her adopted hometown of Berlin; possibly even in court for her use of profane language. Maybe the last place you'd expect this exciting queen of cussin' and sexually graphic, musically primitive electro-punk would be on Great Barrier Island last weekend at the time of Mussel Festival. But the sometimes bearded vixen and personal art statement has been on the Barrier for a few days resting up before her Kings Arms and Big Day Out appearances. Some questions were in order. Was this your first mussel festival or do you make a habit of finding such events when you are touring? Oh, I didn't go to the festival, I avoided it because the Barrier people told me it was a rip-off. They said, 'Don't go there, it's five bucks for a glass of wine'. But I did have insanely large mussels here in Auckland. I was shocked, I'd never had such large mussels. On the Barrier I went to the beach to do some diving, which was ill-fated, went to the hot springs, did some tramping. It was great. Great Barrier is known as a hippie hangout. Your take on hippies? I didn't see any but on the Barrier there must be real hippies. If you're going to live on the Barrier you'd have to be. But hippie for the sake of hippie fashion or hippie style I'm not into. A real hippie isn't a hippie, right? They are just a real into-it person. You say on the album that you don't care about anything (or words to that effect). We're sure you do. About what, though? People have these preconceived notions about what I'm doing and who I am, so I wanted to let them know I was more than that and didn't care what people thought - in the same way 25 years ago Joan Jett would have said she doesn't care about her reputation. It was updating that idea. Preconceptions? You're from Canada. We think of Canadians as being nice people like that lovely Celine Dion or even that amusing little skater Avril Lavigne. Why did you turn out so different? I don't find Avril Lavigne and Celine Dion so similar. I think I'm actually being pretty direct and saying what people say. I'm not buying the package you've got to be in. I'm trying to expand on that and usually you think of Canadians as sticking to their own package. We also have this New Zealand-type complex, too, like Australia equals the United States for us. On one of your songs the lyrics consist almost solely of the words "rock'n'roll". Does that about sum it up? Yeah, what else do you need for rock'n'roll than to say "rock'n'roll" a bunch of times? But you were once in a folk duo and taught young kids? We were called Mermaid Cafe, it's from a Joni Mitchell song, and I kinda just fell into that because my friend had a few songs and so did I. We played at a little club and they liked it so we played every week for a year and a half. That's where I realised I was a musician because I hadn't really performed before that. But then I realised I wasn't into that music. And teaching kids? I had this acoustic guitar but - like what I'm doing with Peaches - didn't buy into the way they thought of as creative learning. I thought kids weren't taught creative process and that's the most important thing you can give a child ... I was trying to do a more processed-based thing and not have them dress up and their parents clap for them or whatever. Primitive electro-punk seems your beat of choice. Three influential albums in that genre that those turned on by your music should check out? The reference points were more like the Stooges for the rock'n'roll thing, [Finland's] Pan Sonic who are like slow-motion heavy metal, and someone like Salt'N'Pepa. Or Missy Elliott. You have two shows here, how will they be different? The club show will be sweatier, sexier, more raw and insane. And the Big Day Out will be just another in a long line of whatever. Peaches are only the third most popular fruit in North America. Why didn't you name yourself Apple, or even Orange? It didn't have anything to do with the fruit, it had to do with the Nina Simone song Four Women and the way she says "peeeeacheees" at the end. It was the most passionate singing I'd ever heard. I wanted her to be singing to me - so I had to change my name. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:20:36 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni's birthday Hell, great find! --- hell@ihug.co.nz wrote: > I'm not sure if this has been posted already (I > don't think > so), but this is how Joni spent her 60th birthday. > Check > out: > > http://www.thebluevoodoo.com/index.html > > There are two photos (the first two) on the photo > page, and > a short item on the front page in the "News" > section. There > are three samples of their music in the "Music" > section. > > Hell ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:31:20 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Welcome warm little stories njc Randy Remote wrote: >So..the moral of the story is that the poor are lazy ne'er-do'wells >who want to ride on the backs of the wealthy, who earned their >money through sweat and toil.....? > Exactly. Cute little stories that have contrived endings. And that story makes the Republican party the enemy of God and that can't be possible, is it? After all, when Mary was told she was to bear the Child of God, she very clearly said "My soul glorifies the Lord, my spirit rejoices ion God my Savior... God has filled the hungry with good things and the rich God has sent away away empty... " There are reasons that it is harder for a rich person to enter the Eternal Realm of Heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. Read Amos who denounces the rich... Micah... all the prophets... So I trust that Republicans have reasons for their beliefs other than human wealth because God doesn't care for human wealth at all. (And historically Republicans did care about something other than human wealth but that party has been hijacked the last several decades.) Vince (by the way, very proud father of an active duty Marine) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:47:08 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's birthday **http://www.thebluevoodoo.com/index.html Hell, thanks so much for sharing that link...hadn't seen those and they were great! Joni's really looking good, like that caption says "Lucky Lads". Thought about you last week, I bought a CD from New Zealand by Vickie Maree-Loach with a BYT cover on it. Just don't brag on your warm weather - I'm encased in ice here! Bob NP: Joni, "Eastern Rain" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:00:27 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Welcome Fellow Republicans njc **.....wait a second......Bush is rich because he was born rich..... What's doubly ironic about that little "joke" is that it's a collegiate analogy, and Dubya got into Harvard & Yale certainly not by hard work, but because of his name. He even bragged about being a C student! Bob NP: Joni, "Gift Of The Magi" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:11:53 +1300 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Another Joni reference While I'm on a roll.... I was watching an Australian comedy show on TV the other night ("Comedy Inc.") and they did a very good parody of the Counting Crows version of BYT. I didn't record it, or note down all the words, but the chorus went something like: Don't it always seem to go When you haven't had a hit in ten years You find an old song That you can just rip off... There was a reference about using a "pretty young thing" (Vanessa Carlton) to sell more copies to younger fans, and a very funny shot of the actress playing her falling over, and instead of singing, "Ooooh, bop, bop, bop, bop...." it went more like "Oooow, f*ck, f*ck, f*ck, f*ck....." Maybe you had to be there.... Hell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:18:55 +1300 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Re: Joni's birthday Bob wrote: > Thought about you last week, I bought a CD from New > Zealand by Vickie Maree-Loach with a BYT cover on > it. Never heard of her, and judging by the sound clips I found (link below), she's not likely to make it big any time soon! Not that she's awful, by any means. http://www.netcd.co.nz/cgi-bin/netCD/Recordings.cgi?Find=48491 > Just don't brag on your warm weather - I'm encased > in ice here! So I shouldn't tell you that we've had blazing hot sunny days for the past month, and very little rain? It's lucky friends of mine have just bought a house with a pool, so I can cool off! Hell - heading back to the beach for another week's holiday in a couple of weeks. Oh sorry, did that sound like bragging ;o)? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:49:33 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Pedal Steel (njc) << From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Pedal Steel But I've never heard it used, as far as I can remember, for a southern hard rock lead guitar sound - until today - just heard this on a radio show Robert Randolph & The Family Band - PaulC >> Paul: I'm not certain but didn't Little Feat use pedal steel as lead guitar on some of their songs? And I KNOW Richard Torrance & Eureka (a band from southern California) had Gary Rowles playing pedal steel guitar as lead on some of THEIR songs, especially on the 1975 album, "Belle of the Ball." (Okay, so I'm showing my age again...) They had at least two other similar, though not as fabulous, albums during the '70's. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:59:53 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #24 In a message dated 1/26/04 3:06:40 AM, les@jmdl.com writes: << From: PhydeauxVvvvV1@aol.com Subject: Re: newbie >> Hey, John, I enjoyed reading of your thoughts & experiences bringing you to this site. The party you dscribed, with the possibility/probability of meeting Joni there, is an awesome situation that has no doubt made all of us jealous by now. Good to have you on board, Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:18:56 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: NJC New York's Bottom Line Closes Here is an article from the New York Times. Laura Nyro fans may know that this was one of her favorite venues to play. Best regards, Gary Zack Detroit The Bottom Line, a Place Where the Music Always Came First By JON PARELES Modest to the end, the Bottom Line closed quietly on Thursday. There was no big farewell concert, no tearful leave-taking. The owners, Allan Pepper and Stanley Snadowsky, didn't wait for New York University, their landlord, to follow through on its right to evict the club. They packed up and left just weeks before the club's 30th birthday. The Bottom Line owed more than $185,000 in back rent and could not agree on a new lease with N.Y.U., which was demanding a $1.5 million renovation and an initial 250 percent rent increase when negotiations broke down. Lately the club had gathered sponsorships and promises to pay off its back rent (from Bruce Springsteen, Viacom and Sirius satellite radio, among others) on the condition that it work out a new lease, and it had offered to set up programs for N.Y.U. students. But with eviction looming, the club stopped booking shows in mid- January. For a music lover the place always seemed too good to last. The Bottom Line was a grand anomaly among clubs: a place where the music came first. In the end, it seemed, its owners weren't greedy enough. The Bottom Line amply earned its fond place in the memories of a generation of listeners. Discreetly and consistently the Bottom Line put musicians in front of audiences who came for no other reason than to pay attention to the music. The room was dark and high-ceilinged with rainbow-muraled walls, and the stage receded into the background of a performance. With a capacity of 400, the club was large enough to present nationally and internationally known musicians. Yet it was also intimate enough to confer bragging rights on the fans who saw Mr. Springsteen, Dolly Parton, Joco Gilberto or the Police perform there. The Bottom Line did the small but essential things right. Performances started promptly and were heard through a trusty sound system. The audience was comfortable, since the Bottom Line had a fixed number of seats and tables. Yet diehard fans could still get in because the club sold tickets for standing room at the bar on the night of the show. Nearly every seat provided clear sightlines to the stage despite the infamous black pillars holding up its ceiling. The club maintained good relationships with musicians, some of whom, like the guitarist David Bromberg, came back year after year. And it had a no-smoking policy well before the city's other clubs were forced to do the same. In the economics of clubs, bands are usually paid from admission receipts, while club owners make their profits on food and drink. It pays to keep people waiting and drinking, and to nurture a bar scene. But the Bottom Line didn't squeeze out its audiences' last dollars. While the club served alcohol and some well-greased food, it wasn't a neighborhood bar with a stage tucked in, or a restaurant with an entertainment annex. It wasn't a lounge, a dance club, a hangout or a posing ground for hipsters, either. It was, as billed from the start, a cabaret. During performances, conversations stopped, and waitresses became less than aggressive about pushing the next round of drinks. Last call came before the music was over. People went to the Bottom Line to see what was on the stage that night, and they left (or were sent home) shortly after the last encore. On nights when there was no show, the club was closed. When the Bottom Line opened in 1974, it quickly became a showcase for acts being touted by record companies. Corporate credit cards paid a lot of drink tabs and admissions, particularly in the club's first two decades. Executives, media representatives and freeloaders occupied the reserved tables in the back; fans were in the front, close to the musicians. It was an era of folk-pop singer-songwriters, and the Bottom Line was perfect for them, although it also presented performers as disparate as Miles Davis, the Ramones, Ravi Shankar and the contemporary chamber-music quartet Tashi (on a daring bill with the avant-garde jazz saxophonist Anthony Braxton). The Bottom Line was a civilized place to hear music for audiences who wanted to sit and listen. And that may have contributed to its troubles. Most rock clubs have moved away from the cabaret model, as concertgoing has become more of a contact sport. Folky guitar strummers, pop balladeers and jazz groups still prefer quiet, seated audiences. But they have been outflanked and outnumbered by indie rockers, hip-hop acts, punks, metal bands, rhythm-and-blues acts and jam bands, all of which are used to making their audiences move. Young music fans don't mind being shoulder to shoulder at a concert, bouncing or even moshing to the beat. The setup turns a performance into a social event. Of course standing audiences are a bonanza for club owners, who can pack more bodies into the same space. That in turn allows a club to offer bigger fees to bands, sometimes with lower admission prices, competition the Bottom Line probably couldn't match. Record-company showcases have moved to clubs like the Bowery Ballroom, which has a handful of tables on a balcony above the dance floor. In recent years the Bottom Line had less-than-packed houses and an older crowd. Its bookings had been relying on longtime stalwarts like David Johansen, and on series like In Their Own Words, an informal songwriters' roundtable, or Required Listening, a showcase for new songwriters, that it presented with the public-radio station WFUV. The club didn't latch onto some other performers who might have suited the cabaret setting, like neo-soul songwriters (though it recently presented Anthony Hamilton), and it clung to its longtime routine of two shows a night by the same performer. (Joe's Pub, a smaller cabaret, often has a different performer at its early and late sets, then turns into a disc-jockey lounge after 11 p.m., while Fez, another cabaret, is the basement extension of the Time Cafe, a busy bar and restaurant.) In hindsight the Bottom Line probably could also have sought sponsorships before its back rent mounted so high, or hired itself out more frequently as a broadcast studio. Fast-rising new bands are likely to appear at standing-room clubs like the Bowery Ballroom, the Mercury Lounge, the Knitting Factory, Northsix, Southpaw, Sin-e or Lit; bigger places like Irving Plaza and Roseland are also standing-room clubs. Yet there should have been room in New York for one major club that was not single-mindedly striving for the cutting edge. The Bottom Line was still the right place to hear Jane Siberry's mystical pop-folk songs or Ute Lemper's chilling modern cabaret interpretations. With the club gone, New York is considerably less hospitable to folk-circuit regulars as well as to the British trad- rockers that the club never abandoned. Its shows full of local stalwarts, like the annual "Downtown Messiah" and its era-by-era pop retrospectives called "The Beat Goes On," are unlikely to find a more congenial place to resurface. Like all venerable clubs that close their doors, the Bottom Line takes with it the peculiar confluence of real estate, acoustics, bookings, memories and lingering physical vibrations that added up to transform an empty room into a landmark. I'll miss it, and so will New York. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #46 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)