From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #32 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, January 18 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 032 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- What do we all do for a living (NJC) ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Pick a category, any category (NJC) ["mike pritchard" ] Re: C&S in Grammy Hall of Fame [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: boring post njc ["mike pritchard" ] Re: oh god NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: oh god NJC ["mike pritchard" ] RE: On Inventing chords [Howard ] Re: On Inventing chords (+ modulation in Joni's guitar songs) [Howard ] TWO WOLVES NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: A Question, please someone....NJC ["ron" ] Re: A Question, please someone....NJC [dsk ] For A Living and Political sound bites..JC ["Russell Bowden" ] Miraculous Messages from Water NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] wow..NJC Joan Biez and the American Civil War ["ash" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #31NJc [ash ] Re: boring posts (NJC) ["Evan and Vanessa Thomson" ] Re: Colonization (NJC) ["Evan and Vanessa Thomson" ] What we do for a living (VLJC) [PassScribe@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 03:27:03 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: What do we all do for a living (NJC) I work for a small marketing company which specializes in helping radio stations attract new listeners and keep the present ones. We rent lists of phone numbers and addresses. At work, I clean data and load it. DMR hires telemarketing companies to make calls on behalf of the station, then each vendor send us daily info on their progress. I share responsibility for loading it and running the reports (about 1/2 of which I re-wrote in the summer of '03. On the right day, I send lists to a vendor who mails out a letter, reminder postcard, or refrigerator magnet. The best part about it is working on new projects in between "busy" seasons. The worst part is payday and figuring out how to keep my car running. When I started working at DMR, the car was 13 years old. My standard of living has steadily declined because my car is now 16 years old. I live for the times I get to write about music, movies, and photography. If the economy picks up while I'm still breathing, I will take a long hike on the Mississippi Delta, tour Graceland, and the Louvre. I hope the LA crowd can hold off for a few years (for a major JoniFest) so I can save up. I haven't been out there since 1967. At the time Walt Disney was alive, I was in love with Annette Funicello, and gasoline was 27 cents per gallon. "Little Black Egg" was on the radio (I think). FM radio hadn't been come to central Ohio but I had read about it in Popular Science. Technology was an exciting part of what promised to be a magical and prosperous future. "Sweet dreams and flying machines ... in pieces on the ground." Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 09:49:25 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Cricket Rules - (was boring post) njc Vince wrote >I have missed the posts that I totally can't fathom where members >who live in the remnants of the British Empire talk about cricket or >whatever it is... and Azeem wrote > OK, here's the obligatory incomprehensible bit: if only they hadn't blundered > with an anachronistic reading of the no-ball rule, which in those days > applied to the back foot, not the front foot - sheesh! ;-) The basic rules of cricket are pretty easy to understand (not sure who wrote this, but it is all true!) - "You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each player that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he/she's out he/she comes in and the next player goes in until he/she's out. When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side thats been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get players still in and not out. When a player goes out to go in, the players who are out try to get him/her out, and when he/her is out he/her goes in and the next player in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay out all the time and they decide when the players who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the players are out, and both sides have been out twice* after all the players have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game!" *once for a one day match The late English cricket commentator, Brian Johnson, was much loved for his commentary bloopers - in particular, when English player Peter Willey was facing West Indian fast bowler Michael Holding - "The bowler's Holding, the batsman's Willey." and "Welcome to Worcester where you've just missed seeing Barry Richards hitting one of Basil D'Oliveira's balls clean out of the ground." More than you needed to know, probably PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 04:22:05 -0800 From: rholliston@HighSpeedPlus.com Subject: RE: What do we all do for a living (VLJC) Good one, Jenny! I teach classes in Music History, Accompanying, and Chamber Music in a Canadian Conservatory/College. Also, I work for the local Opera Company, training the chorus, playing piano for staging rehearsals, and giving educational lectures for the audience. Joni content? Always, when I'm talking about Canadian musicians. Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 08:16:46 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: boring posts (njc) In a message dated 18/01/2004 01:54:16 GMT Standard Time, Azeem writes: > Ah, well let me take you up on that and ask if anyone has seen Lagaan, the > extraordinary Indian film which was nominated for an oscar for best foreign > film > about 3 years ago. I've just watched it on DVD, and can report that it > hinges entirely around a game of cricket, a sport which has hardly featured > in any > films that I can think of, and certainly never as such an integral part of > the > plot. [The only exception is a really awful film set in Jamaica called The > Lunatic, a sort of vanity project for Chris Blackwell] > > It was patchy, in that some of the acting was little more than caricature, > especially the boo-hiss English captain who's the cartoon villain; and the > script is a bit lumpy in places. But it's an exhilarating ride, with some > lovely > performances, ravishing cinematography and even - OMG - some enjoyable > song-and-dance numbers. Oh, and the climactic cricket game is terrifically > staged, > clearly by people who know the game inside out - which of course you'd > expect > from a cricket-obsessed nation. > > OK, here's the obligatory incomprehensible bit: if only they hadn't > blundered > with an anachronistic reading of the no-ball rule, which in those days > applied to the back foot, not the front foot - sheesh! ;-) > > Hey thanks Azeem, fellow dweller in the remainder of the British Empire(!). I have just got to see this film. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:15:16 -0800 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Re: Joni's song, "The Arrangement" On 1/16/04 8:52 PM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote > **Joni did write "The Arrangement" for Elia Kazan's film of the same name. > Thanks for verifying my suspicions, Simon. What is your statement based on? > Not that I'm doubting you, because I don't. I'm just curious as to the > confirming source. In a concert I saw in 1969 or 70, Joni introduced The Arrangement by saying she had written it for the movie but they had decided not to use it. She said she still thought it was a good song so she'd sing it anyway. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:15:09 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Pick a category, any category (NJC) >>Does anyone else have some examples of blatantly odd categorisation of music?<< Once upon a time, when Virgen still had megastores in Spain, they had a lovely store here in Barcelona covering three floors. The rock section was in the basement, the pop/folk/country was on the ground floor and the jazz was upstairs. Most of the joni stuff was under 'rock' (downstairs) but if you wanted to check out if they had any special priced joni CDs you had to check out all three floors. Once I found 'Mingus' in 'folk' (ground floor) and 'Hits' and 'Misses' in 'jazz' (upstairs). How blatantly odd do you mean Chris? mike in bcn np beth orton -central reservation ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:34:00 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: birthday greetings (njc) >>I actually enjoyed the BF's greetings (contrary creature that I am). It's the me-too posts I don't much care for.<< me neither. mike in bcn NP beth orton - central reservation "Everything and nothing is as sacred as we want it to be" - Beth Orton. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 11:28:02 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: C&S in Grammy Hall of Fame Bob Muller wrote: (A sidenote...I REALLY think it's cool that Joni & Tom Scott won the Grammy for best arrangement for "Down To You". Grammy's made lots of royal screw-ups (Milli Vanilli anyone?) but sometimes they nail it) Thanks for the reply and the full listing, Bob. I agree with you about Down To You, and would nominate the two-song sequence of Car On A Hill and Down To You as the "best two consecutive song arrangements accompanying vocalists" ever in the history of the Grammies. bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:28:22 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: boring post njc Azeem asks >>Ah, well let me take you up on that and ask if anyone has seen Lagaan, the extraordinary Indian film which was nominated for an oscar for best foreign film about 3 years ago. I've just watched it on DVD, and can report that it hinges entirely around a game of cricket, a sport which has hardly featured in any films that I can think of, and certainly never as such an integral part of the plot. << You may not have heard of, or seen, 'The Final Test' starring an extremely portly (I'm being kind here) Robert Morley as a batsman. Then there was the part of Boorman's wonderful 'Hope and Glory' where the grandfather teaches the kid how to bowl a googly. Not central to the plot, I will agree but obscure enough to confuse non cricket lovers. mike in bcn NP David Mengual - Deriva ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:31:42 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: oh god NJC What *I* object to (but never complain about) is multiple cutting and pasting of looooong posts, repeated paragraphs about stuff scanned by the E250, legal waivers, msm offers, junk from yahoo, interesting links which are removed by the E 250, and especially posts which appear twice. I don't mind reading about Victor's website, or Kate Bennet's or Stryngs', or whoever. If I were a talented musician, like the above, I would like to feel that I'm not imposing on the others on this list when publicising my latest opus. mike in bcn NP Jacques Brel is alive and well and living in Paris soundtrack - 'Alone' To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NortheastJonifest/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: NortheastJonifest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ This message has been scanned by the E250. _________________________________________________________________ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://shopping.msn.com/softcontent/softcontent.aspx?scmId=1418 Warning! This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify me by telephone (numbers above) and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them. Thank you. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:31:56 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: oh god NJC What *I* object to (but never complain about) is multiple cutting and pasting of looooong posts, repeated paragraphs about stuff scanned by the E250, legal waivers, msm offers, junk from yahoo, interesting links which are removed by the E 250, and especially posts which appear twice. I don't mind reading about Victor's website, or Kate Bennet's or Stryngs', or whoever. If I were a talented musician, like the above, I would like to feel that I'm not imposing on the others on this list when publicising my latest opus. mike in bcn NP Jacques Brel is alive and well and living in Paris soundtrack - 'Alone' To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NortheastJonifest/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: NortheastJonifest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ This message has been scanned by the E250. _________________________________________________________________ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://shopping.msn.com/softcontent/softcontent.aspx?scmId=1418 Warning! This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify me by telephone (numbers above) and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them. Thank you. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 09:36:47 +0000 From: Howard Subject: RE: On Inventing chords This has been a really interesting thread! Les' point comparing her piano and guitar styles on LOTC is a good one. I think there is a greater complexity to ger guitar harmonies here, mostly due to the open tunings. The piano songs are somewhat simpler in terms of harmony. One thing to keep in mind - even though Joni often uses simple chord shapes, the fact that some of these shapes combine fretted notes with open strings means that the same shape moved up and down the neck can create quite different harmonies. This is true even for standard tuning - - if you play 355400 you get G6. Move it up two frets (577600) you have Aadd2, move it up two more and you get Badd4. The harmonic flavour of the chord changes (6 -> add2 -> add4) even though the shape is the same. But, the piano songs do have a harmonic style that's well defined and distinct from her guitar songs. Her piano harmonies have a lot of chords with altered bass notes (E/A, A/B etc). This is one of the defining features of her piano harmonies - triads in the right hand with different bass notes in the left. This is "complex harmony" to some extent, but it's quite different from the guitar chords she uses which tend to be more unusual beats (added 4ths, 6ths, 9ths...). The question Marian and Kate touched on - her different guitar styles in the "early" and "later" years - is also interesting. Marian wrote: > I just think the guitar playing on the early albums is more to be admired. And Kate responded: > Do you think this has anything to do with her switching from acoustic to electric guitar? When playing the electric, her style is certainly different. But personally, I think the change in her right-hand technique (intricate picking, then more rhythmic strumming/slapping) came about on the acoustic. I've read a quote from her around the time of "Blue" where she talks about slapping the strings of the acoustic for the first time. I think this was the start of her style change. I think this shift carried on developing, and by the time of Night Ride Home the change was pretty much complete. Personally, I love her later style - the way she manages to combine a mini percussion section with the strumming, by tapping and slapping the strings, is a source of constant wonder to me. I'm a sucker for poly-rhythms and off-beat stuff, and Joni is an unsung master of this when it comes to right-hand strumming technique. It took me a long time to be able to approximate this style. After many months, I started to get my version of Cherokee Louise to work and sound right (for some reason, this song always seems to be the classic case of her right hand technique). Any recent (last 10 years) version of Joni doing a live version of CL on acoustic is a masterclass in her right-hand style! There might even be a connection in the shift in her painting style. The cover to her first album - covered in fine detail, is a visual match for her intricate picking style. A single line (or guitar note) out of place could be enough to affect the piece. Later on, her guitar style is an audio equivalent of using broader brush strokes - less concerned with the exact details of which string to hit at each precise point, but more concerned with rhythmic, dynamic and textural effects. The analogy with her painting can't be taken too literally, but the amount of fine detail is certainly much, much less in her later paintings. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:31:19 +0000 From: Howard Subject: Re: On Inventing chords (+ modulation in Joni's guitar songs) I'm still catching up on all this great discussion...! > Marian wrote: > > On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:02:41 -0800, Randy Remote > wrote: > > >But I would say off the top of my head that a majority of her songs > >modulate out of the parent key at some point, and that is one of the > >things that makes them interesting. Even her earliest songs like > >"Urge For Going" did this. Hopefully I'm using the term 'modulate' > >properly. > > No, none of her guitar songs (that I can think of) modulate out of the parent key - not > even UFG. Sometimes the chord progressions are unusual. Sometimes the parent key is not > always necessarily the tonic. But her chord progressions are fairly standard for the most > part, it's just the chords themselves that are unusual, because of the suspensions, 7ths, > 9ths, 13ths, etc. I think her more recent guitar songs tend to stick to more common chord changes (Crazy Cries of Love is a good example). But overall I agree with Randy - that a lot of her songs do modulate or throw in some unusual chord changes. I think this is true for piano and guitar songs - it's just that her recent guitar work has moved back to somewhat simpler changes (as well as simpler chord shapes). A few examples: Amelia - simplified names for the intro chords are Dm C/E F Bb/F F. With the emphasis on the F chord, this seems to set up a key of F major quite strongly. Then, first chord of the verse: G major! Then there's a B minor later on - both of these are outside of F major. The key seems to drift a while, before settling back into F for the chorus (repeat of intro chords). So overall, the key seems to be G (mostly) for the verse, and F for the chorus. Hejira - most of the this sticks to the key of C,m with the main changes based on C, F and G chords (all be it chords with added 2nds, 4ths etc!). But in the intro you have Eb6/9 - an outsider for C major. Don't Interrupt the sorrow - the intro wanders, and suggests a few keys, before settling down with chords centred around C and G. After a few more lines in the verse, it shifts to Eb/Ab and then F/Bb - outside the G or C sound. There are plenty of songs doing this kind of thing. Some have more prolonged or exaggerated shifts of key, some only do it very briefly (like the brief F major in People's Parties, which is otherwise firmly in D major), and some don't stray at all outside the basic key. But there are definitely plenty of guitar and piano songs that do modulate and drift between keys. That's one of the many things that's attracted me to Joni's music - the occasional chord change that comes out of the blue, takes you in an unexpected direction, and then somehow brings you "back home" by the end of the verse or chorus! Howard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:38:03 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Play the "Joni's Political Lyrics" game! >>Just so we don't assume that each and every one of Joni's political observations is traditionally liberal, look at this from Three Great Stimulants: I saw a little lawyer on the tube He said "It's so easy now anyone can sue" "Let me show you how your petty aggravations can profit you!" This can be interpreted as supporting the Republican position on "tort reform," the movement to limit people's ability to sue.<< And it could be interpreted as commenting (negatively) on whichever government(s) policy allowed such rampant litigious behaviour become established. And it could be interpreted as commenting (positively) on the ease with which the 'little people' (the 'economically challenged') can if not 'get' justice, then can at least participate in it, rather than justice being available only for those able to afford the best lawyers. And so on... mike in bcn Funeral Tango - JBIAAWALIP - - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 12:01:41 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: boring post njc In a message dated 18/01/2004 16:29:17 GMT Standard Time, ink08@hotmail.com writes: << You may not have heard of, or seen, 'The Final Test' starring an extremely portly (I'm being kind here) Robert Morley as a batsman. Then there was the part of Boorman's wonderful 'Hope and Glory' where the grandfather teaches the kid how to bowl a googly. Not central to the plot, I will agree but obscure enough to confuse non cricket lovers. >> I don't remember that film, but I've now remembered another one: The Crying Game asks us to believe that Forrest Whittaker is not only from East London, but a cricketer, does it not - and there is a little flashback of him running up to bowl a "wicked googly"! The googly is clearly our secret weapon against anyone who thinks they understand the basics of cricket, one we can use to take the mystery to the next level... Azeem in London NP: Garbage - Milk (hmmm, their debut album still sounds good, better than I thought it would. I've been listening to a few 90s albums with a view to a selective cull, and thought this one's machine-made production would have dated terribly, but it hasn't, unlike Pulp's Different Class, which despite the brilliance of the lyrics sounds really rather weedy and uninspired) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 12:08:44 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: The Arrangement Bob Muller wrote: "Well, given that Joni wrote this not independently but rather specifically for the film, let's look at the synopsis of the film's plot and see. I would say that at least originally it would be the former. I haven't seen this film so perhaps someone who has can offer up some insights." I did not realize Joni had written this for a film. Did the song appear in the film ? What was the name of the film ? Best Bobsart (learning something new - or rather, old - around here every day, it seems) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 12:19:45 EST From: Musicloverrick@aol.com Subject: Re: on inventing chords Hey Kate...what I meant by self taught were people who were not actually taught how to play piano or guitar by someone, such as a tutor or music teacher, but those who actually just sat down with the instrument and started to play it all by themselves until they figured out how to do it right....It seems that there are at least several, if not many, examples of artists who have done this....Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 12:25:46 EST From: Musicloverrick@aol.com Subject: Re: "The Arrangement" now back to jc Catherine I think maybe he IS dying, because it would make sense as to why she would say, "You could have been more....." As if he is looking back on his life and realizing that he took all the wrong things to be important....Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 12:29:51 EST From: Musicloverrick@aol.com Subject: A Question, please someone....NJC I was just wondering if someone could tell me what it means when I see this at the bottom of different people's emails.... "NP....(song title) " Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 09:51:31 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: A Question, please someone....NJC now playing > I was just wondering if someone could tell me what it means when I see this at the bottom of different people's emails...."NP....(song title) " Rick < ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 09:51:31 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: A Question, please someone....NJC now playing > I was just wondering if someone could tell me what it means when I see this at the bottom of different people's emails...."NP....(song title) " Rick < ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 09:56:05 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: on inventing chords yes but my point is that i think very few musicians just figure it out themelves......they learn from playing or watching or listening to others...but i think this falls into self taught as its not formal teacher to student training... for joni, i think she had piano lessons as a child, then learned some guitar chords from a pete seger book...but the tunings she created were her own invention...unless crosby taught her some...i think he was using some tunings when they met...they may have traded ideas or maybe she mostly taught him...can't remember that part Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide It seems that there are at least several, if not many, examples of artists who have done this....Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:16:25 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: TWO WOLVES NJC (a friend sent me this just as I was replying to victor about fear on this list...syncronicity!...thought some might enjoy it:) An elder Cherokee Native American was teaching his grandchildren about life. He said to them, "A fight is going on inside me... it is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One wolf represents fear, anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego. The other stands for joy, peace, love, hope, sharing, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, friendship, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. This same fight is going on inside you, and inside every other person, too." They thought about it for a minute and then one child asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?" `The old Cherokee simply replied... "The one you feed." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 20:14:36 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: A Question, please someone....NJC hi rick > I was just wondering if someone could tell me what it means when I see this at the bottom of different people's emails.... "NP....(song title) " NP = Now Playing - whatever is playing at the time of posting - just a kind of general interest type thing quite a couple of music lists do. ive also seen other lists using NR = "Now Reading" ron ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 13:33:02 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: A Question, please someone....NJC Hi Rick, Since you're asking and learning, and some of us are airing grievances, here's some more list info: it's not necessary to send your message to joni-digest@smoe.org, in addition to sending it to joni@smoe.org. That results in duplicate messages. It's not a big deal, and believe me, Rick, you're not the first one who has done that for a while, and probably won't be the last, but it seems an opportune time to mention it. All that's needed is the joni@smoe.org, and if someone has signed up for the digest, the magical smoe computer software wizard thingy will sort it all out. And, I see Kate's told you that NP means "now playing" so I just want to add that it's a subtle way to learn more about the poster, and it's also a way to discover new music, and find out about the existence of "unofficial" recordings people may have that you can then covet (as I do whenever I see a Richard Thompson recording) and you can even contact that person and (usually) get a copy of it for yourself (as I do unless I forget). It is a very sharing group of people here. Debra Shea Musicloverrick@aol.com wrote: > > I was just wondering if someone could tell me what it means when I see this > at the bottom of different people's emails.... > "NP....(song title) " > Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:35:37 -0800 From: "Russell Bowden" Subject: For A Living and Political sound bites..JC Aloha, Gang, What I do for a living in my present incarnation: Piano salesman. Yup. If the following has been mentioned, that's what I get for not reading every post.... "You and me, we're like America and Russia, We're always keeping score, we're always balancing the power And that can get to be a cold, cold war. Peace talks, etc. Love from Honolulu, Russ ( aka Passion Fruit) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get a FREE online virus check for your PC here, from McAfee. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 13:57:55 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: A Question, please someone....NJC ron wrote: > > ive also seen other lists using NR = "Now Reading" And there's also NPIMH, which means "now playing in my head". I use that often because I like quiet non-music times and, if I'm writing anything about Joni or anything even slightly emotional, there's usually a Joni lyric, with her singing it, circling around in there. People use all sorts of other "Nows" at the end of their messages. Some of them I just make my best guess on, and even if I can't figure it out, I at least know that that, whatever that is, is important to that particular person. Is that clear enough? :-) Debra Shea, in NYC NPO: (I just made that one up) the only sounds now playing outside in this normally frantically busy city are occasional cars making a squishy sound on the icy snowy rainy (yes all those things at the same time) road. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 11:02:00 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Miraculous Messages from Water NJC This is so amazing: http://www.wellnessgoods.com/messages.asp Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:17:17 +1100 From: "ash" Subject: wow..NJC Joan Biez and the American Civil War Hi there...got a letter saying my newbie status will be cancelled if I don't post! May I say I am sorry that I have not replied to some nice folks who have sent me emails recently? This rented computer seems not have had any protection! i.e. Norton's, it ran out 9 months ago!..so I was infected by the Swen virus and others! This meant that this computer went back to the shop..well its fixed....crossed fingers and so I opened up my emails and saw all my Joni digests of 3 weeks waiting for me!!!...brill !!! ..bloddy good job I can speed read ! ( I did stop at words like F**K, lesbian, hate etc).....so for 2 hours I went thru different emotions..all good and sort of enjoyed the political stuff..I felt I was listening to real folks with real emotions and sorry to say was saddened at the abrupt end of it..ah well that is the voyeur in me!!. yes I enjoyed drunks in the pubs shouting at each other...just hot air!..but yes it can be annoying that some posters seemed to dominate.....but for people to leave..that is sad...but generally you can see on the headers what poster topics have been brought up? But please do not change the list.....if it aint broke.... it don't need fixin! Can I say, that I have a friend in the UK who belongs to a Concorde internet site and a couple of months ago the subject was...not had anyone had sex on the plane at high altitude ?......but had someone been in the toilet .....to actually use it for the purpose the toilet was made for?..... at Mach1 or is it Mach 2??....and people were calling each other liars and other names...and to prove it!!!!!! so if you think this site has problems...well!! and another site was the David Gemmell ( a supposed writer) where I would be informed not to go 'off topic' and or I would be 'flamed'...I thought what is this all about???? but it got so boring..David this, David that..i.e. kiss his bottom yuk yuk. I find it fun to think that 800 others will read this!!! Joan Biez (spelling is bad, my 1st single of hers was 'The night they drove old Dixie down' ) was on our radio last week in which she mentioned, Harry Bellefonte and the interviewer said "But you were influenced by Fairport Convention, Joni Mitchell and Led Zeppelin?"..er Led Zep???...I did not get this?......Sandy Dennis connection? This leads me on to "Gods and Generals"..I am a American Civil War buff/bore ( I am English) and had seen 'Gettysburg' the other movie...well I got this DVD and played the extra bits and thought mmmm..I know where this is going!! I had read a great book called 'Confederates in the attic' about 'The South' and reenactors..who starve to look like Rebs of 1863..rather than the fat and healthy looking ones in these Ted Turner 'epics' (yes I did enjoy 'North and South'...Patrick Swayzie and Kirstie Alley)..it sort of debunked all the myths.......so I sat here and watched 'Gods and Generals' and was moved in a rather strange way...that I was being manipulated to think the South had a just cause!!!...which I had 'believed' for the last 30 odd years!! I had read the Selby Foote and Bruce Catton books etc and had this idea of what the war was all about...i.e. a romantic idea.....Gone with the Wind.......but what had sold me this point of view was the music!!! all that fiddle playin and fake Irish/Scottish/Celtic laments...so on this film sound track we have Bob Dylan doing his Tom Petty impersonation and some woman doing a Corrs meets Stevie Nicks meets Elvira!!...what was the video all about?..why was she groping her self in the rain??? and that FULL orchestral lush themes...very over board! But it got me all the same....I blame those John Ford Westerns! But it was this portrayal of 'Stonewall' Jackson........I kept thinking......this is the Christian Right Wing...today???...all those actors mouthing ......well what would you call it?...cornball?..well it sounds that way if..if it was not so dammed attractive in an evil Nazi way?Jackson shouting about the enemy..."Kill em and kill em!!"....it seems nothing has been gained by the civil war?? except Ted Turner makes money? and that John Wayne view (i.e. the Alamo speech ) goes on!...but it was and is the music that sucks you in.....Like the Nazis and their big fanfare style! I still play Ry Cooders...'Longriders' film music...now we have Tom Cruise as a Kevin Costner (Dances with Wolves meets the Magnificent 7) clone in Japan (sorry New Zealand!)..yes I will watch it and the 3rd Teds Civil war adventure...Look I watched 'Braveheart' again last night and thought those bloddy English!!!! Talking of cricket,,,,,I am about to watch 'The Match' with Richard E Grant in it.....all about village football in Scotland! SS DD........Dreamcatcher......good film..Stephen King Ash..still a newbie...its like being a virgin???? Just reread all this..I am bound to have upset someone here????? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 05:48:35 -0600 From: "Steve Anderson" Subject: NJC Thought we all could use a laugh. Steve Anderson Two cars were waiting at a stoplight. The light turned green, but the man didn't notice it. A woman in the car behind him is watching traffic pass around them. The woman begins pounding on her steering wheel and yelling at the man to move. The man doesn't move. The woman is going ballistic inside her car, ranting and raving at the man, pounding on her steering wheel and dash. The light turns yellow and the woman begins to blow the car horn, flips him off, and screams profanity and curses at the man. The man looks up, sees the yellow light and accelerates through the intersection just as the light turns red. The woman is beside herself, screaming in frustration as she misses her chance to get through the intersection. As she is still in mid-rant she hears a tap on her window and looks up into the barrel of a gun held by a very serious-looking policeman. The policeman tells her to shut off her car while keeping both hands in sight. She complies, speechless at what is happening. After she shuts off the engine, the policeman orders her to exit her car with her hands up. She gets out of the car and he orders her to turn and place her hands on her car. She turns, places her hands on the car roof and quickly is cuffed and hustled into the patrol car. She is too bewildered by the chain of events to ask any questions and is driven to the police station where she is fingerprinted, photographed, searched, booked and placed in a cell. After a couple of hours, a policeman approaches the cell and opens the door for her. She is escorted back to the booking desk where the original officer is waiting with her personal effects. He hands her the bag containing her things, and says, "I'm really sorry for this mistake. But you see, I pulled up behind your car while you were blowing your horn, flipping the guy off in front of you, and cussing a blue streak at him. Then I noticed the 'Choose Life' license plate holder, the 'What Would Jesus Do"' bumper sticker, the 'Follow Me to Sunday School' bumper sticker, and the chrome plated Christian fish emblem on the trunk. So, naturally . . . . . . . I assumed you had stolen the car." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:54:38 +1100 From: ash Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #31NJc I think often people > just give up trying because maybe they're so caught up > in a lifestyle that they *feel* they can't change. Well I opt for the change, is good for one's soul (hope I die before I get too old..the Who and leave a good looking corpse?)...my father has lived in 3 houses in 75 years and this week has announced he and his partner moving to Wales (UK) !!...maybe this is a childhood memory thing? I moved from a small town to the city, then to another city and then to another country..( I'm leaving on a jet plane..don't know when I will be back again...old jet air liner..) then another country ..then another country..etc..without tooo much thought (Born to run, we gotta get out of this place!!) and from job to job..( working for the maaan!, Mathew and son ..the works never done) all in the name of something new..., I blame them 'Road trip' films, I would still be in contact with friends who had stayed in the small town and they would send photos of them selves..to me they seem to age too quickly!!..caught up in a lifestyle.....that was 'expected' of them! But I would be offered something new and yep I would go for it...I do regret, the money I should have saved..but jeez the experience and the wonderful people I have met.....the old Resume or CV does not look good...as I have not been at a job or in a house for more than 3 years at most..the effect on my family?, mainly my children is that they seem not to be effected by major problems as they like me always believe.....something new will be around the corner. But they have now got itchy feet...so maybe I have been wrong?....but its also in the Australian personality to be on the move...then was not America born on people moving as was Europe ..Huns, Goths etc.... But for me...could this be viewed as running away?.....I read a lot of mediaeval books and I don't believe that this world is preparation for the next...or its a rehearsal!..this is it! I have been in jobs where the boss has been giving me hell, yeah I have faced discrimination...awful name calling i.e. 'baldy' and 'four eyes' etc and I think.....FoooK you and say it!!...okay I lose the job or get a pay rise! (mmm yes I lie on that one)...but crieky...our generation had to live with the pushing of the button on the bomb..the Russians invading Europe etc...so it was get your motors running...born to be wild!!!! I went back 'home' a few times...but we had all moved on ( and they All looked so old....not like me..Peter Pan!!) and it seemed there was still points of contact but you could not spend hours talking of the past..well you can..but its well..boring...but what I did like...was seeing my friends with their children...they were clones of the friends...quite freaky as they all had mannerisms they had copied from their parents! Nostalgia...is revisiting the past ..but a past that deletes all the bad things (and like the past it does not have a sense of smell.....but then something like a newly baked cake..can take you back to the age of 10 at your aunts in a never ending Summer or the smell of new paint or leather etc)....the past are our secret cemeteries of regrets and what could have beens! I went on that Friends Reunited site (UK based) and saw some of my ex girlfriends...gawd did we both have lucky escapes!...as we could have ended up with each other...and I would have regretted not choosing to go! One thing that did stay with me after watching 'Gods and Generals'....Stonewalls Jackson's belief in predestination...that your death date is already preordained and that nothing can stop that...Jackson told his soldiers not to flinch when being fired upon as it was a waste of effort!!! But as most of my family live to overripe old age...I take comfort in this fact..that I still have 1/2 my life to go!!......see I am testing fate as well? but one thing that never changes for me..is the music.....that's why in American movies they play all that Motown stuff and Frank Sinatra! I was talking to my 15 year old...that in a 100 years time....say like rap will not even be remembered (like Stanley Holloway's monologues?)..he replied and named about 10 songs in the charts now..that would be......I said..they are all COVER versions!!..and named the original singers (Bonnie Tyler, Joe Jackson, Stevie Nicks, the Who etc)..then it dawned on me....maybe certain CRAP songs will last...as they will be copied and copied. An English thing?..in the 70's and 80's we had on a Sunday at 5.00pm on the radio the top 50 records in the charts? count down till 7.00pm. well certain songs would remain number 1 for at least 16 weeks...that is 4 months of hearing this song over and over....Don't go breaking my heart, Killing of Sister George part 1 and part 2 , Sailing, Amazing Grace, Your the one that I want, Chirpy chirpy cheep cheep, Ebony and Ivory, Mull of Kintire, Who's that knocking at the door?, Cliff Richard songs, Coming to America (Neil Diamond) etc and to hear those songs now I cringe...as I used to be in a work situation..where I could not turn the radio off...it was mental torture...like anything by Queen....their 1st 3 records were great..but.....now. maybe I am growing old ...????? If I cannot change my job or town, I move a room around..I did say I had ADD?? ASh SSDD ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:51:04 +1100 From: "Evan and Vanessa Thomson" Subject: Re: boring posts (NJC) > I have been thinking about all the exchanges lately about posts in the > NJC JMDL - > > what set this off? a couple of blasts at us all? a nasty exchange of > words between a few posters? and we being all sensitive people took it > too seriously maybe? > > let's not get all paranoid about what gets posted - I think the heat of the discussions and the eventual pain of a couple of posters is what helped bring this about. I also think that the two posts from the dissatisfied JMDLers who were aggressive in their disappointment brought the discussion about. We also had people ask "why?" and for opinions and this is where I came in. > I am not fond of one poster calling another poster a liar > but I would rather have the JMDL as a whole respond and deal with the > issue rather than stifle the discussion here of issues that obviously > matter to us. > > I do read the political posts and as most of us live in the US most will > be about the US > but I really enjoy the political posts about everything from people who > live outside of the US > because that is a perspective that I am truly informed by and have > learned much from > and I wish those in countries that are not the US would post more about > what is taking place in their country or part of the world. My point was rather to express my opinion and to also say that I would happily follow the feeling of the majority. I do understand that the majority of the list live in the US and I happily accept that there will be a great deal of US content. I was just stating that in regards to the political posts I found them to be abit countrycentric. Go ahead and post about whatever you want, however much you want I was just trying to show a different perspective to the questions asked in regards to how people feel. > Reality: every one of us who post actually post stuff that bores someone > else. > We have all posted something that has been totally uninteresting to > someone else - but we have also all posted things that are deeply > interesting to others and it is the same post that bores one that > fascinates another - we are a group with many facets and that should be > appreciated and celebrated rather than us self-censoring or limiting > ourselves from the free range of posting that has made this place a real > community. I feel that perhaps my use of the word "tiresome" has helped bring this about. I just wanted to express what I thought and felt but in no way did I then mean that just because I don't find something stimulating that people couldn't post it. I feel this discussion mainly stemmed from the acrimony that the political discussions seemed to stir up. It also stemmed from the two posts that were harsh in their denounications of the List. It just seemed that Les, Lori and others (sorry if I interpret you out of context) wanted to know what other posters thought and felt. > please please please everyone, post away about everything - everything > that relates to the life and times of Joni Mitchell, everything that > makes the JMDL the most unique internet community ever - I agree with this sentiment and I also responded in turn. I am sorry if my post caused upset and I feel that my words have been twisted somewhat. I am not offended by posts. I feel people should post what they want, I will continue to scroll and delete but I also would accept if a political list was set up. I don't feel that the bulk of this current discussion is about censorship or limitation, rather about a happy medium for people to enjoy the List. I was responding to the idea of trying to find a solution to the feelings that the political discussions set off. I should have been clearer is saying this: please post whatever you want whenever you want however long you want for as long as you want I will respect the decision the List as a whole makes in regards to the points brought up. If people are content to let the List be and this discussion itself be the solution then fine. In no way did I want to infer that just because something doesn't interest me to not post. Vanessa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:23:40 +1100 From: "Evan and Vanessa Thomson" Subject: Re: Colonization (NJC) > >I just find that as a non US JMDLer that sometimes the political issues > are more US politics and I find it a little tiresome to read.< > > Only because we have not colonized you yet! JK! Sorta... You don't need to colonise us as the impact of American culture has swept our generation! I used to find that when I was little we were influenced by British culture but as I grew up that American TV, music etc really started to infiltrate the market and our tastes. TV is one area that I find this to be most prevalent... my husband grew up watching Dr. Who, Monty Python, The Two Ronnies etc and as my parents had migrated from San Diego we watched The Brady Bunch, F Troop, Gilligan's Island and so on. Just look at all the MacDonalds that litter our landscape to see how much we've changed! I think Macca's is the real coloniser! Vanessa ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:41:08 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: What we do for a living (VLJC) << From: Jennymac48@aol.com Subject: What do we all do for a living (VLJC) Hi all. I don't know if this has been done but wouldn't it be fun to see what we all do for a living and what our main hobby activity is and how do we attribute either to Joni's influence (if we do). >> Interesting idea, Jenny... I'll bite. I've been in the auto repair business all my life, mechanic (technician) for about 25 years and then another 10 as a shop manager and lately, a service advisor for a new car dealer. I don't enjoy what I do very much and for years felt I should have been doing something in the arts. For many years, I've had side businesses doing photography, silkscreen printing and making awards and trophies. Hobbies were cars (when I was young) and a custom '50 Merc of mine was featured in 9 car magazines. Photography as a hobby kept me occupied for many years and has given way to writing; I currently produce a quarterly cooperative journal with a dozen other people. I collect all kinds of things incuding post cards and Americana. I love music (especially Joni) and have a sizeable vinyl & cd collection but never took the time to learn an instrument until two years ago when I started taking piano lessons. I can't say I attribute anything in my life to Joni except that I greatly admire artists in ANY field; I've heard it said that a laborer works with the hands, a craftsman works with the head and hands while an artist works with the head, hands and heart. Kenny B ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #32 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)