From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #28 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, January 16 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 028 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Person-to-person posts (njc) [vince ] Re: Person-to-person posts (njc) [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Person-to-person posts (njc) [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Person-to-person posts (njc) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Person-to-person posts (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] The In Crowd (NJC) [TinkersOwn@aol.com] Re: birthday greetings (njc) [Catherine McKay ] Re: birthday greetings (njc) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: birthday greetings (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: The In Crowd (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: birthday greetings (njc) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Pick a category, any category (NJC) ["Norman Pennington" ] Re: birthday greetings (njc) ["myrtlmoo@ticon.net" ] Re: Pick a category, any category (NJC) ["Norman Pennington" ] Re: NJC - Houston ["Norman Pennington" ] Re: NJC - Houston ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: birthday greetings (njc) [vince ] Re: NJC - Houston ["Lori Fye" ] Re: NJC - Houston ["Norman Pennington" ] Re: birthday greetings (njc) [Randy Remote ] Re: NJC - Houston ["Lori Fye" ] Re: NJC - Houston ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: On inventing chords ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Person-to-person posts (njc) [dsk ] Wally's BF greetings .. yuck NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Person-to-person posts (njc) [dsk ] Re: birthday greetings (njc) ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] RE: NJC - Houston [Neil Orts ] Re: Person-to-person posts - now "The Arrangement" and back tojc [SCJoniG] Re: "The Arrangement" and back tojc ["Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Person-to-person posts (njc) Jim, good points, in my opinion. The problem as I see it is when it gets personal. Many times in quoting in a discussion I changed the name of the poster that comes up when one hits "reply" to "it was posted" or :it was said" so it would not appear I was going after one person rather than addressing a broader difference in opinion. Whether that ever helped or not I do not know. It gets bad when it gets personal, not political, as I see it. Jim makes some excellent points and I am grateful for his post. I fear his point about the "in crowd" will get lost as people affirm there is no "in crowd" rather than why it *appears* that there is one some times. I am feeling less and less like posting. Way too much time spent on complaining about what people post rather than enjoying the lively community, There are times that I really feel that the only NJC people want is personal messages, happy birthdays, and discussions of their musical lives and careers. In the absence of new Joni music or touring, and since I am not a musician, I am left without much to say. Considering there has been a lively discussion on chords lately, it just seems to me that we have so much to happy about - except we are moving towards total lack of inclusivity. My point earlier was to ignore what was to an individual problematic and lets not have things get personal. But what I read too often is ways to exclude content. That is the way it is coming across to me. Vince Jim Leonard wrote: > >So, it occurred to me to suggest that--rather than institute additional >filters and such--we should try to avoid addressing an individual when >writing to a list of 800 people. Private emails are more appropriate for >name-calling, flames, and, maybe, even happy birthdays and words of comfort. >As for political and other hot-button debates, if we take issue with another >poster's contentions, we can address the content of the offending post >without addressing the writer directly. We can refer to the writer and >re-post excerpts from that person's post, so as to reply to the points made >(or not made, as the case may be), but there is no good reason I can see, in >a debate directed to a large audience, to rebut as though we are writing to >only the poster with whom we (may vehemently) disagree. Why don't we, >instead, argue against others' contentions and opinions to the best of our >abilities while addressing the group as a whole? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:58:23 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Person-to-person posts (njc) vince wrote: Jim makes some excellent points and I am grateful for his post. I fear his point about the "in crowd" will get lost as people affirm there is no "in crowd" rather than why it *appears* that there is one some times. good point. but, it's difficult to address the "in crowd" issue because the people who feel there is one rarely explain what it is about the list that leads them to this conclusion. is it the people who have been here from the beginning? the people who post the most? the people who have met in person? or maybe the person who sees an in crowd is the type of person that needs to be *invited* into a conversation. or tries to join one and is "ignored". it is difficult to jump in when there are a group of people interacting with each other, joking around and ribbing each other. sometimes, you have to make a lot of noise to avoid getting lost in the crowd. but, haven't we all felt at one time or another that it is only our OWN posts that never ever get responded to? when in fact, *most* posts are not responded to. (unless they are inflammatory or at least trying to stir things up a bit - see joni should stop smoking). oh but it's hard to spend time writing about something that is important to you, send it off into the hands of 800 people and not have one acknowledgement. such is the nature of an email list. but as vince aptly pointed out - it is an issue of perception - you see what you wanna see, hear what you wanna hear. and that is valid. unfortunately, i don't think there is anything that can be done about people who perceive an in crowd, accept to never address each other personally. and that just ain't gonna happen. jenny Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 04:22:35 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Person-to-person posts (njc) i agree to some extent. what Jim is advocating is conventional list etiquette. when i first joined i was surprised at the number of personal responses made public and the number of "me too" posts. i loved the birthday fairy announcements, but didn't understand why i or anyone would want to make their personal wishes for the birthday guy or gal public. i think i even made a list of suggestions for self-moderation, based on conventional list etiquette. i've come to realize however, that this is an unconventional list. and an unmoderated one at that. and any suggestion that relies on individuals to moderate themselves - however good it is - just isn't going to materialize. it's hard when people leave the list. especially unhappy people. but in many instances people leave because of one or two posts or threads. or because of one other person on the list. if someone gets a single rude or insensitive reply out of a dozen positive ones, it's the rude one that is going to have more weight for some people and really what can we do about that? nothing. and you know, when a person makes a big dramatic public goodbye to the list it may have more to do with this person working out (or acting out) some personal issues than with the actual state of the list. again what can we do about that? nothing. my unnecessary two cents jenny Jim Leonard wrote: As someone who's started a number of conversations about "the state of the list," and what I think should be the character of it, I can't help but throw my two cents into the current discussion. I was trying not to, and then I had a thought I wanted to share. It seems to me that what most people object to, and what in my opinion should be considered out-of-character for an international mailing list of 800 members such as the Joni Mitchell Discussion List, are person-to-person communications for which the JMDL is used as the delivery vehicle. These person-to-person messages may take the form of flames in a debate, or they may take the form of individuals wishing each other well or showing support for one another, as is the case with the happy birthday posts. (I don't mind the happy birthdays any more. I've grown to accept them as being a part of the "community thing" (read: "in crowd," to many of the 800 reading this list) that many cherish here. There are those who do find them tedious, though, as a respected subscriber reminded us earlier when he said he is more interested in political content than in a plethora of birthday greetings.) So, it occurred to me to suggest that--rather than institute additional filters and such--we should try to avoid addressing an individual when writing to a list of 800 people. Private emails are more appropriate for name-calling, flames, and, maybe, even happy birthdays and words of comfort. As for political and other hot-button debates, if we take issue with another poster's contentions, we can address the content of the offending post without addressing the writer directly. We can refer to the writer and re-post excerpts from that person's post, so as to reply to the points made (or not made, as the case may be), but there is no good reason I can see, in a debate directed to a large audience, to rebut as though we are writing to only the poster with whom we (may vehemently) disagree. Why don't we, instead, argue against others' contentions and opinions to the best of our abilities while addressing the group as a whole? Best, (Not in Boston, thank God) Jim Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:54:58 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Person-to-person posts (njc) --- Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > i agree to some extent. what Jim is advocating is > conventional list etiquette. when i first joined i > was surprised at the number of personal responses > made public and the number of "me too" posts. i > loved the birthday fairy announcements, but didn't > understand why i or anyone would want to make their > personal wishes for the birthday guy or gal public. > I'm sort of bothered by birthday greetings. Not so much anymore, because I've been on this list for a few years now and I've sort of gotten used to it; and not that there's anything wrong with that, but I agree they're personal and so should be sent only to the person whose birthday it is (of course, someone would have to TELL you because I, for one, hardly ever remember birthdays unless someone else reminds me, and I don't WANT to remember my own...). I also realize that's not always possible anyway, because you might not have the birthday child's e-mail address. Wherever possible, I post private greetings for birthdays or other personal things like that. I also have this thing about not wanting to leave anyone out so sometimes I feel bad about wishing someone happy birthday.... because there may be others that aren't remembered. That's just me being hypersensitive about potential exclusivity because I don't like anyone to feel left out, and I know I worry too much about stupid crap like that and that I'm only responsible for my own feelings ultimately. I delete most of the political posts because I'm not American and whatever I hoped, in the beginning, to learn about American politics by reading these things, I haven't learned anyway and I really hate it when people get personal about stuff like that. You are never going to convince anyone with strongly held beliefs to change those beliefs, no matter how you argue, or how many links you provide ;-) or how many quotes you give. but I wouldn't tell people NOT to post those. So often these things start out as relatively harmless posts and then someone picks up on one point and responds, again not necessarily in an inflammatory sort of way, but then the snowball starts rolling and builds up steam as it does (how's that for a mixed metaphor - steamy snowballs!) and hte next thing you know a few people are cyber-yelling at each other and a lot of us shut up for a while, or try to create a new thread - sometimes one that relates to Joni (!) I think it would be silly and pointless to try to create yet more filters. Yes, you could do a message-board type of thing but then you sometimes lose the connectivity with other people. I've checked out some of those for other artists and find them hard to figure out. It's like there's a bunch of parties going on in separate rooms but you're never really sure which room you should try. Here it's like a free-for-all in an open-concept house, but then you get the choice of joining in any thread whenever you want to, or have the time to. For my part, I prefer this type of list. I get separate posts though, so it is definitely easier for me to sort through and delete anything that has one of the "political" headers on it. It would be more difficult for anyone on digest, of course, because it's not always easy to figure out where one ends and the next one begins, or to weed out the stuff you don't want to read. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:15:07 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Person-to-person posts (njc) > and you know, when a person makes a big dramatic public goodbye to the list it may have more to do with this person working out (or acting out) some personal issues than with the actual state of the list. again what can we do about that? nothing. > > my unnecessary two cents > jenny You're exactly right. But I'm wondering why this issue is coming up again when it was pretty much beat to death a month or so ago. It seems alot like a broken record playing over and over and over and over and over... It is more enjoyable simply to post messages occasionally than to endlessly debate the nature of a list that largely exists in your head anyway. Honestly, I really don't care anymore. Victor Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:27:04 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: birthday greetings (njc) please notice that i stopped the birthday fairy greetings a long time ago in deference to what i felt was the general desire of the list. wally ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:09:35 EST From: TinkersOwn@aol.com Subject: The In Crowd (NJC) Lori wrote: >Everybody, please repeat this until it sticks: There is no "in crowd." What?!? When did that happen...hmmm...checking my membership card...it DOES have a 12/31/03 expiration date...Les, help! How do I renew? I don't want to miss any of the monthly parties at Joni's. President Kakki - don't tell me our group has been desolved? Steve Dulson Vice-President Chapter 115 In Crowd Division JMDL Southern California ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:26:23 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: birthday greetings (njc) --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > please notice that i stopped the birthday fairy > greetings a long time ago in > deference to what i felt was the general desire of > the list. > > wally :-( I thought the BF was just gone on holiday. I actually enjoyed the BF's greetings (contrary creature that I am). It's the me-too posts I don't much care for. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:29:02 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: birthday greetings (njc) Catherine wrote: > I actually enjoyed the BF's greetings (contrary > creature that I am). It's the me-too posts I don't > much care for. I concur. It was really nice to see the Birthday Fairy's posts, and they were a wonderful reminder to send a personal greeting. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:31:24 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: birthday greetings (njc) > I actually enjoyed the BF's greetings (contrary > creature that I am). It's the me-too posts I don't > much care for. me too. Don't care for them at all... Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:33:26 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: The In Crowd (NJC) --- TinkersOwn@aol.com wrote: > Lori wrote: > > >Everybody, please repeat this until it sticks: > There is no "in crowd." > > What?!? When did that happen...hmmm...checking my > membership > card...it DOES have a 12/31/03 expiration > date...Les, help! How > do I renew? Tough titty, tink, er, Dulson. You let that thing lapse, you are OUT! Catherine, who KNOWS, despite the fact she was never in, nor would want to be, because any club that would want me as a member... blah, blah, blah. (Yeah, that's what they all say to console themselves - hey, I'm so fecking exclusive, I don't let ANYBODY join my club!) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:35:54 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: birthday greetings (njc) LOL! --- Victor Johnson wrote: > > I actually enjoyed the BF's greetings (contrary > > creature that I am). It's the me-too posts I don't > > much care for. > > me too. Don't care for them at all... > > ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:37:39 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Pick a category, any category (NJC) > Chris wrote: > > Does anyone else have some examples of blatantly odd categorisation > > of music? The categories used by Columbia House and other companies engaged in the mail-order music club biz used to frost me...the worst being "Teen Hits" for rock bands in the '60s and '70s. Apparently rock 'n' roll wasn't "serious" enough for adults. Dunno if that's changed at all, or even if that particular business is still a business. Best Regards, bp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:03:46 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Pick a category, any category (NJC) --- Norman Pennington wrote: > > Chris wrote: > > > Does anyone else have some examples of blatantly > odd categorisation > > > of music? > > The categories used by Columbia House and other > companies engaged in the > mail-order music club biz used to frost me...the > worst being "Teen Hits" for > rock bands in the '60s and '70s. Apparently rock > 'n' roll wasn't "serious" > enough for adults. I've got a Columbia House (Canada) mag right in front of me and even if they don't have a "teen hits" category anymore, they still have some weird stuff (and they're not alone in this - this just happens to be handy to me.) Someone already mentioned about Tori Amos being in the alternative/punk category. The whole "alternative" thing is confusing to me. The catalogue in front of me has groups and people like Pearl Jam, Oasis and The Clash in there; but it also has Jason Mraz, Sarah McLachlan and Dido in the same category. I don't get it. And it puts James Taylor, Leonard Cohen, The Chieftains, Cesaria Evora and Gordon Lightfoot in "Light sounds and easy listening" along with Broadway musicals, Barry Manilow, and Yanni. How do those go together? And then there's my favourite - World music - where they put anything that comes from any other country, or where the singing is in a language other than English. This is particularly ironic for French stuff when Canada is supposedly a bilingual country, but I've seen quebecois rock stuff in "world" music. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:08:19 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: RE: [NortheastJonifest] NJC - Willy The Shake in Houston Thanks Kate. We didn't get to play. Open mike night is on Mondays, I played it once before. Otherwise there are reserved seating shows nightly. The Duck is a great place to go, sadly it is pretty much the only "accoustic" venue in town - and as huge as Houston is! Really chaps me that all the clubs prefer to cater to a mainstream kind of music/crowd. Anyway we had a blast. db >>> kate@katebennett.com 1/15/2004 4:39:20 PM >>> Cute photo of you both donna! I hear the mucky duck is the happenin place to play...or listen...did ya'll do any tunes yourself? Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide - ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor - ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/9rHolB/TM - ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NortheastJonifest/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: NortheastJonifest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ This message has been scanned by the E250. Warning! This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify me by telephone (numbers above) and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them. Thank you. <<<>>> This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:10:12 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Pick a category, any category (NJC) Buck wrote: > The categories used by Columbia House and other companies engaged in > the mail-order music club biz used to frost me...the worst > being "Teen Hits" for rock bands in the '60s and '70s. Apparently > rock 'n' roll wasn't "serious" enough for adults. Dunno if that's > changed at all, or even if that particular business is still a > business. You mean you don't receive junk mail from Columbia House?? How do you manage to avoid it? Yeah, they're still around ... http://www.columbiahouse.com There's also their competitor, BMG. http://www.bmgmusic.com Looks like they've nixed the "Teen Hits" category, though. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:25:02 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: NJC - Houston Donna Binkley said: > The Duck is a great place to go, sadly it is pretty much the > only "accoustic" venue in town - and as huge as Houston is! Hey Donna! I spent some time in Houston in 2000 and was mightily impressed with your music venues. Have you ever been to The Last Concert Pub? I saw Carolyn Wonderland there and was knocked out by the venue (small, smoky club populated by all ages/types, and VERY friendly). While Carolyn doesn't play accoustic music (or didn't the night I saw her), a couple I met in Houston recommended Carolyn as a sort of "new Bonnie Raitt," and I was NOT disappointed. Texas (well, Houston/Austin) has the BEST climate for established and developing music talent in the US, IMHO..but I'm biased, admittedly. Best Regards, bp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:26:32 -0500 From: "myrtlmoo@ticon.net" Subject: Re: birthday greetings (njc) I enjoyed the BF greetings very much, especially your wonderful way with words, Wally! I usually send greetings off-list, so I don't add to the large amount of posts people recieve. Kerry (who enjoys the warm fuzzy feeling from getting birthday e-mails!) Original Message: - ----------------- From: Lori Fye lori@lrfye.lunarpages.com Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:29:02 -0800 To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: birthday greetings (njc) Catherine wrote: > I actually enjoyed the BF's greetings (contrary > creature that I am). It's the me-too posts I don't > much care for. I concur. It was really nice to see the Birthday Fairy's posts, and they were a wonderful reminder to send a personal greeting. Lori - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:50:16 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Pick a category, any category (NJC) Lori sez: > > You mean you don't receive junk mail from Columbia House?? How do you > manage to avoid it? Ummm....no fixed address, perhaps? ;-) > > Looks like they've nixed the "Teen Hits" category, though. A marketing triumph. One should never insult the customers.... Best Regards, bp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:04:33 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: NJC - Houston . Texas (well, Houston/Austin) has the BEST climate for > established and developing music talent in the US, IMHO..but I'm biased, > admittedly. I'm dying to visit Austin as I've heard so much good things about it for years. There's also the Kerrville Folk Festival right outside of Austin which is supposed to be incredible fun. On a side note, there was an excellent Celtic band from Houston called Clandestine that recently broke up after eight years. The lead singer Jen Hamel has the voice of an angel and she sings on two tracks from my cd, Parsonage Lane, "Carolina", and "Boomerang Love". Available at Cdbaby, the premier online music store, supporting independent musicians everywhere. Victor NP :Jeff Buckley "Just Like a Woman" Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:19:36 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: NJC - Houston Victor writes: > I'm dying to visit Austin as I've heard so much good things about it for > years. There's also the Kerrville Folk Festival right outside of Austin > which is supposed to be incredible fun. You won't be disappointed, Victor. Sixth Street is just SO very cool...you have about 30 different bands/acts to choose from on any given night, and can walk from club to club in the process of enjoying them. One of the things that impressed me most about Austin was the wide variety of choice. While "Texas" music dominates the scene, there's also reggae (and a GREAT Bob Marley Fest is held annually in April), jazz, accoustic music of ALL types, and on, and on.... Houston also does a spring Festival that lasts for a week + the weekends on both sides. The year I was there the occasion was called "Festival 2000," and Brazil was the featured nation. Lotsa samba troupes participated...the music, costumes, and dancing were superlative. Made me want to go to Rio, LOL! There are multiple "stages" at the Festival featuring bands playing in a given genre...like the Latin Stage, the World Stage, the American (country) Stage, and the Texas Stage, to name a few. I literally lost count of the bands I saw at the festival. It REALLY is a party! Best Regards, bp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:35:56 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: NJC - Houston You're right Norman Last Concert Cafe is an awesome venue, I wasn't knocking Houston's club scene in general, just would like to see more bands like Carolyn Wonderland in more places. Another neat place to go is Dan Electro's Guitar Bar or The Big Easy. Sounds like you and Victor need to take a road trip in this direction!! I'd love to go out clubbin in Houston, or visit Austin or go to the Kerrville Folk Festival again. db >>> "Norman Pennington" 1/16/2004 10:25:02 AM >>> Donna Binkley said: > The Duck is a great place to go, sadly it is pretty much the > only "accoustic" venue in town - and as huge as Houston is! Hey Donna! I spent some time in Houston in 2000 and was mightily impressed with your music venues. Have you ever been to The Last Concert Pub? I saw Carolyn Wonderland there and was knocked out by the venue (small, smoky club populated by all ages/types, and VERY friendly). While Carolyn doesn't play accoustic music (or didn't the night I saw her), a couple I met in Houston recommended Carolyn as a sort of "new Bonnie Raitt," and I was NOT disappointed. Texas (well, Houston/Austin) has the BEST climate for established and developing music talent in the US, IMHO..but I'm biased, admittedly. Best Regards, bp This message has been scanned by the E250. Warning! This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify me by telephone (numbers above) and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them. Thank you. <<<>>> This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:43:32 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: birthday greetings (njc) this would be my view too myrtlmoo@ticon.net wrote: >I enjoyed the BF greetings very much, especially your wonderful way with >words, Wally! I usually send greetings off-list, so I don't add to the >large amount of posts people recieve. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:51:02 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: NJC - Houston > Sounds like you and Victor need to take a road trip in this > direction!! I'd love to go out clubbin in Houston, or visit Austin > or go to the Kerrville Folk Festival again. Do I sense a Texas get-together in the making? Woo-hoo! Maybe there's reason for me to return for a visit to San Antonio (just down the road a piece from Austin), afterall!! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:12:24 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: NJC - Houston Lori sez: (Donna) > > Sounds like you and Victor need to take a road trip in this > > direction!! I'd love to go out clubbin in Houston, or visit Austin > > or go to the Kerrville Folk Festival again. > > Do I sense a Texas get-together in the making? > Damn...don't I WISH. With so many things going on this year (reunions of ALL sorts, fests, graduations, yadda, yadda, yadda), us retirees (that would be OAPs in Brit-speak) on fixed incomes can't just pick up and go like we used to. Talk about prioritization problems!! Makes one wanna go back to work, but then I'd probably be "too busy" (one of the PRIME regrets of old age) to go. Ya can't win. Best Regards, bp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:15:00 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: birthday greetings (njc) Jim Leonard wrote: There are those who do find them tedious, though, as a respected subscriber reminded us earlier when he said he is more interested in political content than in a plethora of birthday greetings.) Since I brought this up, I would like to clarify that I do not in any way object to birthday greetings, or any other posts that people care to make. My point was just that we all have subjects that interest us more than others. One person's passion is another's snoozefest. Diversity is what makes the world go 'round, and I will always be in favor of an open, anything-goes list. The only thing that should be censored/monitored is abusive behavior. RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:18:32 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: NJC - Houston > (one of the PRIME regrets of old age) Excuse me, sir, but I don't believe you're old!! : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:22:27 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: NJC - Houston > Damn...don't I WISH. With so many things going on this year (reunions of > ALL sorts, fests, graduations, yadda, yadda, yadda), us retirees (that would > be OAPs in Brit-speak) on fixed incomes can't just pick up and go like we > used to. Would be nice.....actually I'm currently contemplating a move to Charleston,SC. There's a brand new Whole Foods opening up in Mount Pleasant in April. Stay tuned for updates. Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:41:10 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: On inventing chords Rick wrote: > You know I have yet another question to ask of everyone on the > list...Don't you find it interesting that there so many successful > artists who were self-taught on the guitar? Joni, Loretta Lynn, > Dolly Parton, Wynonna Judd....there are lots....While they all may > not be of the same talent scale, or whatever, it is still interesting > to me to realize all of the self taught players out there and GREAT > songwriters who never really had any formal training...Anyone else > ever notice this? I've been thinking about this. I haven't really noticed what you mentioned, Rick, but that may be due to not knowing about the musical training (or lack thereof) of my favorite artists. But it makes sense to me that the greatest composers of lyrics and music, as well as the greatest actors and artists in any media, are those who are absolutely COMPELLED to create. So they pick up an instrument or a paint brush or a pen or broken pieces of pottery, and they just CREATE. They can't help but do so. And they're probably much better at it than those who study a particular thing because they want to be great at it but perhaps don't have that special *something* that comes naturally to the truly talented. I don't remember where I read it (although I thought it was an interview in Rolling Stone around 1979), but I recall that James Taylor once said (and I paraphrase here) that Joni has the most intense need to create of anyone he'd ever known. I believe that she is one of the most creative people of our lifetimes. My 2 cents. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:50:51 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Person-to-person posts (njc) Victor Johnson wrote: > > You're exactly right. But I'm wondering why this issue is coming up again > when it was pretty much beat to death a month or so ago. It seems alot > like a broken record playing over and over and over and over and over... I feel that, too. Makes me wonder if I've just been on the list for too long. It's feeling like I'm in a committed relationship that's being discussed more than I'm interested in doing. It's one thing to have a dust-up and sorting out every six months or so, but every month, that's too much. However, as in any relationship, I'm going to assume this mostly soul-searching and not much fun period will pass. Soon, I hope. Les, I've been thinking more about the additional filter idea, and I'm going to change my mind about it. I think the PC filter may be worth a try, if smoe is willing to do it. From what I've seen, people don't take part in political discussions as much as people did in the past, and I usually stay quieter about such things also, but find it hard to resist trying to counter such provocative (to me) comments like the Nazis were Socialists or Bush is doing everything well and honestly etc. But, even though people are more restrained (usually), I think we could all agree that things are going to heat up here in the U.S. with the elections coming up in November and feelings will run high, and it would be good to be able to speak about it without offending people who are not at all interested in politics, but who would still like to be part of other non-Joni discussions. I remember the pre-NJC days when there were increasingly closer together discussions about whether the list should allow non-Joni topics, and your decision then to give people the choice of Joni-only was great! It's obviously an imperfect solution since it relies upon people remembering to put NJC in the subject line, and there would be the same imperfection with a PC filter, but my vote at the moment is that it would be worth a try. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:50:20 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Wally's BF greetings .. yuck NJC I don't like your BF greetings! Why would I want to read them? If you were clever with words or just a little more creative with them..then I could tolerate them. But you miss everytime! So I'm glad you stopped. As Guz writes...JK!! I love your BF greetings. Why? Because I love when one is creative with words.. and clever. I'm so unclever..so I marvel. so don't stop.. one can always hit the delete.. Bree _________________________________________________________________ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://shopping.msn.com/softcontent/softcontent.aspx?scmId=1418 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:25:06 -0500 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: birthday greetings (njc) Uh-oh...I feel a "me too" coming on...kind of like a sneeze that you just cannot surpress! I want to publically state my support for the Birthday Fairy greetings of old, as I have greatly missed them. They were often some of the best and most clever writing I'd read all day. - -----Original Message----- From: vince [mailto:revrvl@chartermi.net] Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 12:44 PM To: myrtlmoo@ticon.net Cc: wallykai@fibertel.com.ar; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: birthday greetings (njc) this would be my view too myrtlmoo@ticon.net wrote: >I enjoyed the BF greetings very much, especially your wonderful way with >words, Wally! I usually send greetings off-list, so I don't add to the >large amount of posts people recieve. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:37:04 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Person-to-person posts (njc) Lori Fye wrote: > > (This makes me curious > what the 2nd most bitched about thing would be?) From the recent posts, it looks like it's the onlist personal birthday greetings (but not the Birthday Fairy greetings, I always enjoyed them, too). From times past, any "gay" threads drew negative comments rather quickly it seemed to me. I always took such negative comments about that or any subject as having an "I'm uncomfortable with this so please stop talking about it" aspect to it. Of course, the persons wanting conversations stopped usually don't phrase it like that, so then it all gets confusing. The things that annoy me most, but that I usually ignore, are (1) people telling the list how to behave, especially if they're newcomers who haven't given the time or made effort to suss out the situation, (2) people on digest who don't change the subject line when they respond. People making dramatic "you all suck" type exits also annoy me, but they're leaving so it's not something to linger over. My unwritten reaction is usually along the lines of "don't let the door hit ya on the way out." And, along with that, people wringing their hands over someone leaving seems like a waste of time to me. As Jenny sensibly pointed out, there are many things people on this list are not responsible for. Plus, there are many unemotional reasons for people taking a break or leaving, so judging the health of the list based on how many people stay/leave is futile. Those are all minor things that I see and let pass, and watch happen again, and let pass, and so on... none of those things are worth getting worked up about in my opinion. At least, that's how I feel at the moment. And the "in crowd" things is getting annoying, too. How many times do people have to hear that a person gets out of it what they put into it? Someone who rarely posts is not going to be as well known, and probably will not get as many responses, as someone who's taken the time (and who has the courage) to put themselves out there, often. Debra Shea P.S. And, though I'm talking about list stuff, I'm also wondering why I think Joni's song "The Arrangement" was such a political influence on me. That's taking me a while to figure out. I think the Joni political lyrics thread is great, and hope to have a response before the thread passes. Some topics or messages don't get a response from me just because of lack of time, and that's probably true for everyone. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:51:25 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: birthday greetings (njc) Randy wrote something that expresses my feelings here too and I am not trying to me too anything, just but I think the point Randy makes is one I have failed to make myself but to me is important: Randy wrote: Since I brought this up, I would like to clarify that I do not in any way object to birthday greetings, or any other posts that people care to make. My point was just that we all have subjects that interest us more than others. One person's passion is another's snoozefest. Diversity is what makes the world go 'round, and I will always be in favor of an open, anything-goes list. The only thing that should be censored/monitored is abusive behavior. RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:13:00 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Person-to-person posts - now "The Arrangement" and back to jc --- dsk wrote:> > P.S. And, though I'm talking about list stuff, I'm > also wondering why I > think Joni's song "The Arrangement" was such a > political influence on > me. That's taking me a while to figure out. Just my 2 cents here and maybe not really what you had in mind, but just my point of view... "The Arrangement" could be small-p political. "You could have been more than a name on the door... more than a consumer lying in some room trying to die... more than a credit card, swimming pool in the back yard." We all make arrangements of sorts with life, and we end up in some kind of pigeonhole. Years later, we realize how far we are from the dreams we had in our youth. (There are probably a lucky few who ended up where they wanted to be, of course.) I see the character in this song (the "you") as a businessman who sells his soul to get ahead, in a manner of speaking. He could easily be a politician, of course. You start out life with all these ideals and you end up compromising these to get the right job, the right car, the right house, the perfect spouse. This song had a pretty strong impact on me too. When I was in my teens I wrote a poem that was very influenced by this song - all about how people end up with these crummy (or not necessarily crummy in this case, 'cause I think this guy has "made it" businesswise - he's got the pool, the credit cards & all that) jobs and they just work through them until they reach retirement and can go off to Florida or some place to do what they really wanted to do all along, except now they're kind of old and maybe it's too late. Somewhere in this house is the book this poem got published in. Thankfully for the world at large, it probably didn't sell many copies and is long out of print, but I do know that Joni's lyrics influenced me A LOT when I was in my late teens and early twenties, so much so that quotes from her songs spring more easily into my head than Bible quotations, for example. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:14:34 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: (NJC) A Poll? I'm a bit of a geek and I like creating polls. I'd like to poll those of you who wish to vote on several of the issues that have been discussed recently. I will publish the poll at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/piss-n-moan/polls/, not because I'm trying to be a smart ass but because the group already exists and it's easy to access. You will have to join the group in order to vote, however.* The things I'm thinking of including so far are: 1) Do/don't create an additional email filter for political content (PC) 2) Do/don't create a message board for PC 3) Do/don't bring back the Birthday Fairy 4) Yes there is/no there isn't an "in crowd" 5) Yes there is/no there isn't an "inner circle" Can any of you think of more? There can be a maximum of 25 items in one poll. How long should I keep such a poll open for voting? Voters can change their responses at any time while the poll is open. My intention is to keep the responses private, and just publish the results when the poll closes. Let me know what you think, and any suggestions you may have. Lori *Really, this is just a membership drive for the "Piss-n-Moan forum"! ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:32:28 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Orts Subject: RE: NJC - Houston I miss the Austin music world . . . keep in touch with a couple of musicians that I used to follow closely. (Check out Jeff Talmadge -- he just moved to Georgia, but his CDs are available via CDBaby, last I knew.) I would go to coffee houses around town and sit with my notebooks, writing while inspired by the energy of the live music. While in Chicago, I got to see a little live music, but not nearly as much . . .and I'm afraid I'll have similar experience here in Houston. In Austin, there was so much live music available that it overflowed into the smoke-free establishments (THE thing i miss most about Austin, maybe) and in Chicago the smoke free music venue was few and far between. I haven't had a chance to look around Houston much yet, but I'm suspecting it's much the same. I could be wrong. The smoke free thing is important because whenever I'm in a smokey environment, i have such an allergy reaction that I can suffer for days (a couple of times weeks) afterwards. It's just not worth it. This is, of course, the only reason I can't hang out with Joni . . . Anyway, if anyone knows of a smokefree coffee house or somesuch in houston, do let me know! - -Neil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:36:32 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Person-to-person posts - now "The Arrangement" and back tojc I know it's been mentioned before, but didn't Joni write this for inclusion in the 1969 Elia Kazan film by the same name? Reading a synopsis of the film it would seem that it would HAVE to be so, just as her "Midnight Cowboy" was written for that film but never used. And I wonder why "Arrangement" wasn't used? It's a brilliant song - blew me out of the water when I first heard it (which was in the late 80's/early 90's when I could definitely relate to it!) Joni must be pretty proud of it as she included it in her "Misses" collection. Bob NP: Fleetwood Mac, "Gold Dust Woman" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:19:43 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: "The Arrangement" and back tojc Debra wrote: > P.S. And, though I'm talking about list stuff, I'm also wondering why > I think Joni's song "The Arrangement" was such a political influence > on me. That's taking me a while to figure out. That song (one of my favorites on LOTC) has always seemed to me to be -- at least in some ways -- Joni's indictment upon selling one's soul to Capitalism and the almighty dollar. Lori ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #28 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)