From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #24 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, January 15 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 024 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Oh Boy -- Please Spank Me Hard (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: (NJC) Political Content on the JMDL - an idea ["Norman Pennington" ] RE: (NJC) Political Content on the JMDL - an idea ["Les Irvin" ] RE: (NJC) Political Content on the JMDL - an idea ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Was: oh God, now with Joni Content! (And now, NJC) [] Re: oh god njc ["Lori Fye" ] Fw: Oh Boy -- Please Spank Me Hard (NJC) (for AOL users) [Emiliano ] Re: (NJC) Political Content on the JMDL - an idea ["Lori Fye" ] Re: oh god njc [Chris Marshall ] Re: Joni's guitar playing through the years! ["amelio747" ] RE: oh god njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: (NJC) Political Content on the JMDL - an idea ["Lori Fye" ] Re: NJC political posts ["Lori Fye" ] Re: wheeeeeee! (njc) ["Lori Fye" ] Leaving because Jackson Browne was dissed....(NJC) [Darice ] Joni's guitar playing through the years! ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: oh god njc ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: To be or not to be? njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Joni's guitar playing and the name of her first album [David Marine ] RE: To be or not to be? njc [Neil Orts ] Let the list be the list (NJC) [David Marine ] Today in History: January 15 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: January 15 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:10:07 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Oh Boy -- Please Spank Me Hard (NJC) well, apparently i don't. my analyst stopped my therapy about three hours ago. it's a fact. wally, thinking of all the things he'll buy with his therapy money ps: i'll spank you if you spank me back. > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Lori > Fye > Enviado el: Miircoles, 14 de Enero de 2004 05:58 p.m. > Para: Randy Remote; Bill Bubb; joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: Oh Boy -- Please Spank Me Hard (NJC) > > > Randy wrote: > > > You need therapy. > > Oh hell, don't we ALL?? > > Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:10:53 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: oh god njc Paul I am sorry that you find the JMDL really too awful for you to continue. I joined for exactly the same reason as you did a year ago and in that year I have "shock horro" ventured accross the pond to meet some of these wonderful people that have infuriated, entertained, cajoled, argued, and generally been human beings.... AS to the in crowd thing.. Nah, don't buy that at all, Fest is open to anyone even nonlisters, providing they find out about it and contact Ashara. i am a Brit, I have made some REAL friends here, not just virtual jossers and teasers. They have been to my house, I have been to theirs. We phone each other.. but do you know... WE hardly talk about JONI at all.. just a bit, but we really just like each other as mates.... I love joni's music but OH DARE I ADMIT THIS on the JMDL.. hey I listen to other stuff too.. and i think you will find they do as well..... Yes this is a Joni based discussion list and if you want, as Chris marshall has suggested to only recieve the JONI ONLY stuff then go to the joni only list... NOt that you are not welcome here, only here is a bit more open and wrestly and jostly and REAL? I do have to join Chris M in saying that you could elect a jar of spaghetti to the White house as far as I am concerned.. I hate all the politicking that goes on around the world, My very first post to this list concerned a conversation I had had with a man called Satish Kumar.... His comments on all leaders he met, including the presidents of France, Russia England and America was.."Why should I feel nervous of them , they are only men like me" REmember all public servants are elected into office, they are public SERVANTS ..... Forget that at your peril. Are not your servants supposed to reflect your will... I do not want to see any more slanging matches and have deleted so many digests I am sure I must have missed some good stuff, but its getting too political.. But I am still here, still reading what I can be arsed to read and enjoying the snippets of your lives, and still very very glad to be alive and part of this community.... Mr MURPHY.... I have joined the realms of the non-nicotined...where the hell are you when I need someone to share this awful experience!!!!! Lucy... feeling VERY unqueenly and in need of nicotine but NOT giving in (well not for as long as I can manage to keep these patches going...how the hell do you light them anyway?.... answers on a postcard>>>> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:29:02 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: oh god njc On 14 Jan 2004, at 12:49, Paul Mepschen wrote: > The going gets tough. my no holds barred approach yesterday doesn't > help, I do > regret it. But I pushed the send button myself, so I won't make > apologies. I > do think the list is incrowd -- I don't know if that's nobody's fault. I've already mentioned the reason why I think it's possible to make the "in crowd" assertion. Why do you think there might be some "fault" to allocate there, given the naturally sociable nature of a bunch of people here? What could be done to change that? I'm not sure there *is* a way, but theorise away. > you should ask the question: how many people that joined in the last > year are still active on the list? Unfortunately in this case, I don't think we can draw a monthly chart showing %age of members still posting 12 months after they joined. Or, rather, we can (and, indeed, my stupid technically minded head is figuring out ways to do this right now) but we wouldn't draw any useful conclusions. If Joni had done something significant of late (no, the Geffen box set and Traveldirge* don't count) then I would hazard a guess that a lot of the last years new members *would* still be posting. As it is, there's a lot of dead air that gets filled up by the NJC stuff, and that'll appear in crowd I guess 'cos the core posters are the more outgoing, affable, people who are comfortable to natter about all and sundry. Some people are happy to do that on lists, others just want "core subject matter only" and won't talk about anything else. I really wonder, given the cirumstances, that the list can be any other way. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:11:04 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: (NJC) Political Content on the JMDL - an idea I kinda like it! Not sure if my opinion counts, tho, since I believe I still qualify as a "newbie." When DOES my Newbie card expire, anyway? Best Regards, bp - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Lori Fye" ; ; Cc: ; Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:53 PM Subject: Re: (NJC) Political Content on the JMDL - an idea > P.S. Another possibility, which I think has been discussed before, is implementating another set of filters: one that would filter out anything marked "PC", just as "NJC" is currently filtered out. That way, nobody would have to go anywhere. > > Les: doable? > > Mary, > thinking this is probably my last on this subject for a while. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:15:18 -0700 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: (NJC) Political Content on the JMDL - an idea From: blckcrow@chorus.net > P.S. Another possibility, which I think has been discussed > before, is implementating another set of filters: one that > would filter out anything marked "PC", just as "NJC" is > currently filtered out. That way, nobody would have to go anywhere. It's a moot point on the onlyJoni list as they don't get it anyway, but assuming you are one who wants to get NJC but not PC... then there's a market for it. That would bring to the JMDL a total of six - count 'em - six list variations to choose from. Assuming I could get Smoe to agree to set me one up. I'd have to think about that one. Les ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:18:20 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: (NJC) "Starry Eyed" Fans Kardinel wrote: > About 3 years ago I subscribed to the list and I wrote something > about Joni. I can't remember what but was promptly told I was "a > starry eyed fan" or something like that. Whoever wrote that, privately or publicly, is a scrooge! Some of us ARE "starry eyed" fans of Joni! And there's nothing wrong with that. Please write more often, Kardinel. I always enjoy what youahve to say. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:20:15 -0700 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: (NJC) Political Content on the JMDL - an idea > The resulting choices for subscription would be something like this (I > think): > joni or joni-digest = everything > nopcjoni or nopcjoni-digest = everything minus posts tagged > with "NJCPC" > onlyjoni or onlyjoni-digest = everything minus posts tagged > with "NJC" > or "NJCPC" You'll have to excuse us folks, but Lori and I have decided to save space and we are now both plugged into the same brain. Thus the duplicate posts. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:19:54 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: oh god njc Norman Pennington wrote: >Hey Colin, > That said, you >can see from the tone of other posts in this thread I'm not alone in >interpreting 'homophobic, fundamentalist, pro life fantatics' as a reference >to politics in general and, more specifically, to those of us who support >Bush...by extension, conservatives. > If you choose to believe that, no one can stop you. If you choose to believe I consider all conservatives, and thus you(in your terms), to be homophobic, pro life fundies then so be it. There is enough real stuff in this life to offended by without looking for it. To put it even more simply, you made an assumption that I was referring to conservatives and then got the hump over your assumption and are now expecting me to take responsibility for your humpiness. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Having said that, it is a little dificult to understand why one would support a homophobic prolife fundy position... ...but not difficult to understand a cosnervative...the two are not the same in my book tho obviously in yours which I would have thought would upset other conservatives..... - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:21:26 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: RE: (NJC) Political Content on the JMDL - an idea Les I wrote: > It's a moot point on the onlyJoni list as they don't get it anyway, > but assuming you are one who wants to get NJC but not PC... then > there's a market for it. That would bring to the JMDL a total of > six - count 'em - six list variations to choose from. Assuming I > could get Smoe to agree to set me one up. Geez, we're a demanding bunch, aren't we? That's the problem with too many intelligent people in one place (or on one list)! So, back to the message board idea ... could that be done instead? Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:22:29 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: RE: On Inventing chords Les, I thought it was a breeze too! I spoke too soon. Isn't that funny, it sounds easier than it is. I hadn't realized she kept her thumb going almost the entire time and that she shifted her fingers so much from the bottom and top strings sets. I stand corrected. nice job on the tab! Jenny Les Irvin wrote: From: Jenny Goodspeed > Her later strumming "technique" escapes me really. I can't > duplicate it. The rhythm shifts so much. Now I'm not saying > I *like* it more. I don't. I just find her earlier songs > much easier to play. I think that post-1972 Joni evolved into another style of playing where she used a percussive tapping of the strings (ala John Martyn) that was not present in the early years (Martin Giles and Les Ross are both good at this). I agree that it's a challenge. But if you watch her play, she holds her right hand nearly straight up and down vertically as opposed to many fingerpickers who hold the right hand nearly horizontally. Seeing this for the first time really helped me "get" what she was doing. Still, I challenge you to have a go at Cactus Tree. She is doing some amazing syncopated stuff that sounds deceptively simple but is quite challenging. I tabbed that piece a while back, thinking it would be a breeze. I was mistaken. Give it a shot, guitarists! http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/cactustree-li-t.cfm Les Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:25:07 -0600 From: Subject: Re: Was: oh God, now with Joni Content! (And now, NJC) Buck wrote: > Agree whole-heartedly with your comments about Joni's worldview being more > liberal than conservative and the support that POV has, world-wide. > Actually, what I meant was that there was support in Joni's interviews/music/art/etc. for the proposition, or view, that she's been more of a liberal than a conservative. From where I sit, it looks like it's the conservative POV that has rather pervasive (my word, not yours) support: LOL!!!! But somehow, with all of us and our different stripes firmly in place, this old world keeps turning 'round. May it, and this wonderful list, long continue to do so. Take care, Mary. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:25:46 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Political posts (was) oh god (njc) Les writes: > I've been firmly against moderation and/or dictating the content of this > list since day one and still am, but I must agree that the tone changes > during these discourses and takes some time to recover. > > Thoughts? Suggestions? > Les > Bring back IVPAUL???? :~) Jimmy, who misses the Smurph humour ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:27:17 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: (NJC) Political Content on the JMDL - an idea Buck asked: > When DOES my Newbie card expire, anyway? As soon as you attend your first JoniFest! ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:27:41 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: (NJC) Political Content on the JMDL - an idea On 14 Jan 2004, at 23:21, Lori Fye wrote: > So, back to the message board idea ... could that be done instead? Do you mean a web-based message board for the whole JMDL? I know it's the more modern way to go, but potentially much less nice to use than the list, at least for those of us who get individual mails. Also a less satisfying experience for those on dial-up - no offline reading. I fear that a move to something web-based would cause us to lose more people than we do through the PC attrition rate. And yes, I've changed my tune since the last time this was discussed. At least, I think I have. (This from the man running his band's website with... a web-based message board on it. A very quiet one :-( - --Chris Marshall chrisATstryngs.com (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:31:00 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: On inventing chords <> Interesting thread. The guitar can do things the piano cannot, especially droning - when 2 or more identical notes are played simultaneously. This creates a different texture in the sound of the chord. Although, I guess you could retune your piano to play identical notes, but I'm no pianist, so what do I know. I'm not even a real musician with music theory background. Like Joni, I taught myself guitar, and it wasn't until I discovered open tunings that I could actually get some good sounds out of it. Standard tuning is too limited and awkward for me, too (and I've never had polio). Mia _________________________________________________________________ Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up  fast & reliable Internet access with prime features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:33:46 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: oh god njc Lucy wrote things like: > i am a Brit, I have made some REAL friends here, not just virtual > jossers and teasers. and ... > NOt that you are not welcome here, only here is a bit more open and > wrestly and jostly and REAL? and ... > I do not want to see any more slanging matches and ... > But I am still here, still reading what I can be arsed to read Good god, Lucy! Can you please repeat all that in the American language? ; ) Yes, that's my JoniFest roomie ... > Lucy... feeling VERY unqueenly and in need of nicotine but NOT giving > in (well not for as long as I can manage to keep these patches > going...how the hell do you light them anyway? ... who never ceases to crack me up! (And you GO, girl!) Much love to (all of) you across the pond, Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:27:01 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: Oh Boy -- Please Spank Me Hard (NJC) (for AOL users) Wally says: well, apparently i don't. my analyst stopped my therapy about three hours ago. it's a fact. wally, thinking of all the things he'll buy with his therapy money ps: i'll spank you if you spank me back. > > > > > Randy wrote: > > > > > You need therapy. > > > > Oh hell, don't we ALL?? > > > > Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:27:32 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: all them funny chards njc (for AOL users) Wally says: personally, i find chards delicious, especially swiss chards. wally, who makes a mean swiss chard omelet ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:25:56 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: honesty - njc (for AOL users) Wally says: that's the advantage of all the duality stuff one has learned from joni. wally, dual dual dual! > > > Oh Wally, LOL! For a bear, you can be SUCH a queen! : D > > > > Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:42:37 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: (NJC) Political Content on the JMDL - an idea Chris asked: > Do you mean a web-based message board for the whole JMDL? Not really. I would rather see the email-based list continue, but perhaps the availability of an message board -- accessed through and as a part of the JMDL website, or something like that -- for political discussion would be a good thing. It would have to be used on a voluntary basis, though. (Which is not unlike usage of the NJC tag.) Of course that could bring about a division of the membership, with some people posting only to the message board(s, if there were more than one) and others posting only to the email address. But we sort of have a bit of that already with the Northeast Jonifest list (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/northeastjonifest/, for those who don't know about it and are curious -- or am I letting the cat out of the REAL "in crowd" bag? Oh dear). Face it: life just has too many choices. Lori, leaving work now ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:45:54 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: (NJC) Political Content on the JMDL - an idea On 14 Jan 2004, at 23:42, Lori Fye wrote: > Of course that could bring about a division of the membership, with > some people posting only to the message board(s, if there were more > than one) and others posting only to the email address. But we sort of > have a bit of that already with the Northeast Jonifest list > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/northeastjonifest/, for those who don't > know about it and are curious -- or am I letting the cat out of the > REAL "in crowd" bag? Oh dear). Actually, it would be possible to so a web-based replacement for the Yahoo group - yahoo's group web interface is sucky at the best of times, and all the advertising is a major PITA these days. I could potentially host something here if it needed a home and Les/whoever didn't want to host it. - --Chris Marshall chrisATstryngs.com (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:03:18 -0600 From: Subject: Re: Re: (NJC) Political Content on the JMDL - an idea > Lori Fye wrote: > > > > >The resulting choices for subscription would be something like this (I > >think): > > > >joni or joni-digest = everything > > > >nopcjoni or nopcjoni-digest = everything minus posts tagged with "NJCPC" > > > >onlyjoni or onlyjoni-digest = everything minus posts tagged with "NJC" > >or "NJCPC" > > > >Would that work? Or will people request filters for SJC (some Joni > >content), VLJC (very little Joni content), et cetera? > > > we could end up with loads o fthese and then there would arguments about > people forgetting. > NoGayPolitcsReligionAnything.InFactJustKeepYourFuckingMouthShut List. > That would solve all the immaturity problems right there. > > > > >Lori > > > >NPIMH: "Nothing Can Be Done" > > > > > > > > > > > -- > bw > colin > http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ No--we could just have a filter for the topic that's caused the most pervasive and far-reaching problems again and again: the Political Content. Mary, who really DID swear she was going to say nothing else about this on-list. . ."Baby, baby, where did my resolutions go?" :-( Going home now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:12:47 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: oh god njc The in crowd thing does exist to a certain extent. But why let it stop you being a part of soemthing that interests you? In my own case(and please no defensive posts either private or public) in the UK, I am not part of that crowd. I find out about UK events or get togethers after they have happened, I am not on anyone's telephone list, dinner list, party list or whatever. yes it mattered for a while and I stupidly continued to extend invitations or send emails till I realsied that if want you wnat you in their life, they make the time.. But you can't make people like you. If they do, they include you. If they don't, they don't but life goes on and you can't let a few people dictate how you feel about yourself. None of us is going to be liked by everyone. The only way to belong to the list is to write to it. Okay, so you may not get private email from listers but so what? You can still be a part of what goes on publicly, regardless. In the end, it is your real time non PC life that is important and if that is populated by people you love and who love you, then the list is where it ought to be-an intersting and mostly enjoyable excursion. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:03:11 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: oh god njc On 15 Jan 2004, at 0:12, tantra-apso wrote: > The in crowd thing does exist to a certain extent. But why let it stop > you being a part of soemthing that interests you? > In my own case(and please no defensive posts either private or public) > in the UK, I am not part of that crowd. I find out about UK events or > get togethers after they have happened Please say that you're not accusing the UK JMDL crowd of avoiding you? Your point about finding out about events late etc makes it seem awfully like that's what you are saying. And no right of reply on the subject? Really? Do you know how it feels to have someone say something accusatory, incorrect, and then be denied the right to say anything in defense? (I have no idea whether I'm in any way implicated in what you say, but having tried to organise a few UK JMDL things in the past, your post stings somewhat.) For the record, most UK based JMDL events that I'm aware of that weren't just thrown together at the last minute on the spur of the moment, were announced here first (sometimes more than once), *then* taken off list. I know that I, personally, have tried to organise the odd ad-hoc gathering in London at the last minute, not via the list, and I have missed people out. That's the way the cookie crumbles. So, come on, what events have gone off that you've found out about late? I must have missed them too, in that case. The simple fact is that at the moment and for most of the last year, there hasn't been much, if any, of a UK JMDL social scene. Which must mean we're all avoiding each other, clearly. ;-\ - --Chris Marshall chrisATstryngs.com (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:23:41 -0000 From: "amelio747" Subject: Re: Joni's guitar playing through the years! > You may not call yourself a musician Stephen, but you described Joni's > guitar career very aptly in a very short amount of place. Of course I think > that because I happen to agree with your take on it - well except for that > loving DED thing - still working on that. ; ) > > Jenny Oh Jenny just give it time...like about 3 years!!! Oh I love this album now. the first thing you need to understand is that you can't treat it like any of her previous albums. I may post a review on how I saw the light LOL some time :) * * * * * * Stephen T "I get the urge for going But I never seem to go" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:15:46 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: (NJC) Political Content on the JMDL - an idea >> NoGayPolitcsReligionAnything.InFactJustKeepYourFuckingMouthShut List. THAT is funny, Colin! > No--we could just have a filter for the topic that's caused the most > pervasive and far-reaching problems again and again: the Political > Content. Mary, as Les mentioned earlier, there *might* be a problem with convincing Smoe to allow us to have what amounts to another two lists. Am I correct in remembering they don't charge for their service? If that's the case, we can ask only so much from them, and we're probably asking for twice as much already as most other lists that Smoe hosts. (I do know that the "Small Repairs" Shawn Colvin list used the "NSC" tag, so they probably had a set up similar to the JMDL email list, but it looks like that list closed shop in October 2002.) Lori, who notes an absence of actual political discussion since THIS thread started ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:16:12 -0500 From: vince Subject: NJC political posts There is no way a group of intelligent, aware, and involved in life people like JMDLers are not going to discuss what goes on in the world. Life is political and people will talk politics. I have learned much and sharpened by own thinking via the JMDL through the years. As David Lahm pointed out, there is a good that people have something to express and they do. Sometimes it gets personal. What doesn't get personal here? There was heated exchanges over raising money for MG. I don't think the solution is to fear that. When people go over the line, others (those who feel a line has been crossed) can always email the party involved and ask for the personal to get toned down. Someone keeps it up - they go the way of some no longer members here. As someone else pointed out, to some of us (such as me) repeated happy birthday posts are annoying. Posts about Ab Fab are annoying. There are other subjects which bore me to tears or get too hot and I don't want to read them. I wouldn't ever never suggest the happy birthday or Ab Fab people take their stuff off list or say it shouldn't happen - it is part of community life, it works for others, and it takes me .000002 microseconds to hit the delete key. What doesn't get personal in a family? Every criticism has a validity. We were accused of being too cliquish. Yes, we are perhaps at times too much of an in group (not that I have ever been in it) - well, that happens after all the years we all have been posting and given the relationships in real life that have happened through this list. So - when someone says we get too in-groupy, no need to get offended or seek some massive change - something to bear in mind as we post. I was not sure what the musical "you attacked me" thing was, but the person felt attacked. Ok, we all should bear in mind our phrasing of things. The political thing - passions will run and they will run before this election is over. I would hate to to go through the election cycle without the JMDL as it is for the commentary that will happen. I treasure the comments from the nonAmercans on how they see our system and what is happening - we in the US need the global perspective in our parochialism. I love it when people in countries not my own tell us what is happening where they are - I have learned so much that way that I would never learn in any other way. NJC and don't like the political threads? Do what I do when I see titles I'd rather skip - delete, delete, delete. And if people get passionate now and again, that just means they are involved. When I first joined we were months away from working through Columbine - then gun control - Kosovo -impeachment- the 2000 election season and then of course Florida - we have dealt with it all - September 11th - Afghanistan - Iraq - one of the strengths of the JMDL is that people have a place to go to say what they feel in their hearts with people, with a community, they know and trust. We have no intentional bomb throwers here. We can handle it. We don't need to worry. In my opinion. Have a Happy Dr. Martin Luther King's actual birthday tomorrow... Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:17:31 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: oh god njc > In the end, it is your real time non PC life that is important and if that is populated by people you love and who love you, then the list is where it ought to be-an intersting and mostly enjoyable excursion. < absolutely...very good point colin... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:44:31 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: (NJC) Political Content on the JMDL - an idea Buck wrote: > Not sure if my opinion counts, tho, since I believe I still qualify > as a "newbie." In my earlier smart-aleck response about Buck's "newbie" card, I neglected to say that it's always been the case that EVERYONE has a vote here. So chime in, everyone! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:44:50 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Orts Subject: wheeeeeee! (njc) you know, I was once on another list that had huge volume, much like the JMDL. HUGE volume. But it eventually died down and now get about 20 messages a month . . . which is much more manageable, of course. Today, I came home to over 100 e-mails all from the JMDL. wahooooooooo! I love getting mail. okay, so I deleted about 90 percent of them without reading them. There's only so much explaining of who is right and who is left I can read through . . . BUT I'm glad to see the JMDL still has the fire. Even if it's an unmanageable fire. lol I'm also glad to see so many familiar names. It just goes to show who has been stronger than I am through the years. Or maybe who has more fire retardant unmentionables. umm. Joni Rocks! yeah! oh and if Bush wins a second term, would one of our non-American JMDLers consider adopting a 40 year old Joni fan? wait, I should be more specific . . . would one of our non-American JMDLers WHO LIVES IN A VERY WARM CLIMATE (sorry, this offer not good in Canada--brrr) consider adopting a 40 year old Joni fan? Anyone in Ecuador? I'm open to joint custody situations where I might have to travel between homes/countries. I figure it doesn't hurt to ask. Yeah, this e-mail is pretty much void of any redeeming value. I'm just a little giddy after all that e-mail . . . - -Neil worried in 2004 but, you know, Joni rules ===== Neil Ellis Orts 713-838-1787 Houston, TX keep up with my creative endeavors--join my newsletter list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/neonews ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:51:19 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: NJC political posts Vince the rampant White Sox poster wrote: > NJC and don't like the political threads? Do what I do when I see > titles I'd rather skip - delete, delete, delete. I'll venture a guess here and say that a lot of complaints about politicals threads come from folks who receive the digest and can't delete. "Scroll" and "Edit/Find" works well in that case, though. : ) > we have dealt with it all - September 11th - I know that I felt a whole lot better being able to log on and feel connected with this community on 9/11 and afterwards. I felt better yet when I learned that Kay, Debra, Patrick, Emily and others NYCers (and DCers) were safe. > Have a Happy Dr. Martin Luther King's actual birthday tomorrow... Thanks Vince. That's a very welcome reminder. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:54:15 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: wheeeeeee! (njc) Hey Neil! I've been meaning to say "Howdy!" to you. You and Craig were, I believe, the first JMDLers I ever met in person. We enjoyed some great conversation over dinner in Austin. It's great to see you back here! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:03:20 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Darice Subject: Leaving because Jackson Browne was dissed....(NJC) Someone left because Jackson was dissed?!?!?!?1....I thought I was the biggest Jackson Browne fan(atic) on the jonilist.... (Well , it got me to post ....) Darice ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:05:32 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: To be or not to be? njc Mary >Rules governing political posts? These posts, and the "vibe" on the list when they predominate, do seem to alienate many.< I know a separate list was set up for political posts...but sometimes it is difficult to know what a political post is...or sometimes a non political one turns political or vice versa...sometimes lurkers jump in on a political theme when they wouldn't have otherwise posted anything.... I am not that much of a political person but right now it seems to me that politics is affecting everything EVERYTHING...including music... So I don't see how you can separate political posts from the other discussions...to do so would create more problems than solve them & create more arguments about what should or should not be posted here...imo I think the delete option is an excellent one...for those on digest, scrolling is not that painful...i do it all the time when something doesn't hold my interest & that may be njc or jc sometimes... The guidelines that I feel would help these conversations is for people to follow basic guidelines for communicating which includes stuff like: don't call people names, don't attach motivation to someone's words, don't reinterpret what someone says in your own words, don't use demeaning language, etc...if the argument can be kept within the bounds of 'my opinion' or 'I think' or 'my experience has been' or 'I feel'...etc instead of you this or that, it is much easier not to offend someone else while still making a valid point... Of course if the majority don't want these kinds of discussions so be it but frankly to limit subject matter is a pandora's box & would make this place less interesting... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:10:20 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni's guitar playing through the years! I have not tried to count out joni's rhythm but at times it sure can be challenging to play exactly like she does- so I don't!...perhaps she skips bars & some such stuff, dylan said something like joni has her own time but she is allowed to tell you what time it is... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:15:51 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Orts Subject: Re: To be or not to be? njc - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > > I know a separate list was set up for political > posts...but sometimes it > is difficult to know what a political post is...or > sometimes a non > political one turns political or vice > versa...sometimes lurkers jump in > on a political theme when they wouldn't have > otherwise posted > anything.... Down with politics, I say. No more of it. What does politics have to do with Joni Mitchell anyway? Politics no! New topic: Has anyone given Dog Eat Dog a listen lately? Love that album. - -Neil trying to bring back to Joni ;) ===== Neil Ellis Orts 713-838-1787 Houston, TX keep up with my creative endeavors--join my newsletter list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/neonews ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:23:02 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: oh god njc >Actually, that's not what Paul's post said, and I'm sure Colin wasn't implying that.< This illustrates the point I was trying to make about basic communication guidelines & why they are so important...when anyone interprets what they thought someone said rather than quoting what that person actually said...weeeelll...ya got trouble my friend...right here in river city... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:29:45 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: To be or not to be? njc Neil >>Down with politics, I say. No more of it. What does politics have to do with Joni Mitchell anyway? << Well I think your post was in jest somewhat but in case it wasn't, well then: And so once again Oh, America my friend And so once again You are fighting us all And when we ask you why You raise your sticks and cry and we fall Oh, my friend How did you come To trade the fiddle for the drum You say we have turned Like the enemies you've earned But we can remember All the good things you are And so we ask you please Can we help you find the peace and the star Oh my friend We have all come To fear the beating of your drum ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:49:16 -0800 From: David Marine Subject: Joni's guitar playing and the name of her first album Hey List: I know that Joni has said that her post polio syndrome made it difficult for her to shape her left hand into some of the standard configurations, and this was one factor that influenced her as she created her open tunings ( http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=115 ): > "Writing also led Mitchell to her own guitar sound, based on unusual > tunings and conditioned by a physical infirmity. "The moment I began > to write I took the black blues tunings which were floating around," > she said. "Tom [Rush] played in open C. Eric Anderson showed me an > open G. which I think is Keith Richards' tuning, he mainly writes in > that. Then there was D modal. Buffy had a couple of original tunings. > But I began to experiment because my left hand is somewhat clumsy > because of polio. I had to simplify the shapes of the left hand, but I > craved chordal movement that I couldn't get out of standard tuning > without an extremely articulate left hand. So, to compensate for it, I > found the tunings were a godsend. Not only that, but they made the > guitar an unstable thing, but also an instrument of exploration, so > that you could put the thing in a new tuning, you had to rediscover > the neck, you'd need to search out the chordal movement, and you'd > find five or six chords, and then there was the art of chaining them > together in a creative manner. It was very exciting to discover my > music. It still is, to this day." Isn't it possible or probable that the PPS has influenced her picking and strumming styles also? Also, at the end of the article cited above, Joni talks about her first album: > "Joni Mitchell was released in March 1968, and the first thing to say > about it is to confirm that the title was Joni Mitchell. The album's > cover, a painting by Mitchell surrounding a tiny photograph of her, > features a grouping of birds that spell out the words "Song To A > Seagull," the title of one of the songs. Not only has this led many > people to call the album Song To A Seagull, but several reputable rock > 'n' roll history books (one example being The Rolling Stone Rock & > Roll Encyclopedia, edited by Jon Pareles and Patricia Romanowski > [Rolling Stone Press/ Summit Books, 1983]) list two different albums, > one called Joni Mitchell, the other Song To A Seagull. > > Mitchell, when informed of this, expressed surprise. "People can't see > them," she said of the birds, "and the 'L' [of Seagull] is cut off, > 'cause even the graphic department, they didn't see it either. It's > called Joni Mitchell." Well, this is news to me. I always thought it had been decided that the title was STAS. Now I am, again, confused. David On Wednesday, January 14, 2004, at 11:48 AM, "Marian Russell" ]" wrote: > > > I prefer the early, intricate guitar playing. I think it took a lot > more care and talent and ingenuity to play like that than what > developed later on. But then, she moved into playing with other > musicians - into playing with a band - and that kind of solo guitar > playing - the intricate, pretty stuff - would have been drowned by the > drums and other instruments and was therefore no longer appropriate. > So what happened made sense, and worked. And of course, I love all > those songs, especially the songs from C&S, HOSL, Hejira, & DJRD, but > also from WTRF, NRH & TI - I just think the guitar playing on the > early albums is more to be admired. > > Marian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:51:26 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: oh god njc > > In the end, it is your real time non PC life that is important and if > that is populated by people you love and who love you, then the list is > where it ought to be-an intersting and mostly enjoyable excursion. < > > absolutely...very good point colin... Great point. That's become even more apparent to me in this past year. If you lower your expectations and put things in the proper perspective then it becomes that much more enjoyable. If it is an enjoyable excursion than stay. If it is not enjoyable then leave. Seems really simple to me. IVictor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:53:15 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Orts Subject: RE: To be or not to be? njc - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > Neil >>Down with politics, I say. No more of it. > What does > politics have to do with Joni Mitchell anyway? << > > Well I think your post was in jest somewhat lol sorry. my sense of humor isn't coming across. (or perhaps my possession of same could be debated? yes! new topic!) I chose Dog Eat Dog for possible discussion for very particular reasons . . . - -Neil While madmen sit up building bombs And making laws and bars They'd like to slam free choice behind us ===== Neil Ellis Orts 713-838-1787 Houston, TX keep up with my creative endeavors--join my newsletter list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/neonews ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:55:32 -0800 From: David Marine Subject: Let the list be the list (NJC) Hey List -- There is a Joni-only list for those who choose it. What is the sense of an unmoderated list that forbids political discourse? Who cares if people sometimes get upset, or if the tone changes? Any list will inevitably have qualities that will cause some people to eschew it. I would hate to think what Joni's work would be if she censored herself from expressing any discordant thoughts. This is a forum for engaged adults, and I believe that its dynamism is one of its strongest assets. I applaud Les for his decision to keep this list unmoderated and I am pleased to see that he remains firm in that decision. I also realize that Les has opened the floor for people to suggest possible changes to the way the list operates. Frankly, I don't think any are necessary. Best regards, David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:02:20 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: January 15 1989: Joni presented an award at the NAACP Awards Show. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:02:20 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: January 15 On January 15 the following articles were published: 1976: "A Summer Garden of Verses" - Rolling Stone (Review - Album, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=259 1976: "Knockin' on Hurricane's Door" - Rolling Stone (Review - Concert, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=299 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #24 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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