From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #22 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, January 14 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 022 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: oh god njc [tantra-apso ] Re: On Inventing chords ["Marian Russell" ] Re: oh god njc [Chris Marshall ] Re: On Inventing chords [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: a propos of nothing - actor's studio (njc) [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: January 13th Birthday "Conversation"!! NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: oh god njc [tantra-apso ] Re: Oh Boy -- Please Spank Me Hard (NJC) [Chris Marshall ] Re: January 13th Birthday "Conversation"!! ["kerry" ] Re: On Inventing chords and Joni's voice [steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Tedder)] Re: On Inventing chords ["Marian Russell" ] Songs I would like Britney to cover [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Fw: honesty - njc (for AOL users) [Emiliano ] Fw: On inventing chords (for AOL users) [Emiliano ] Re: The power of that "Back to the Garden" Jonifest cup ["Sherelle Smith"] Re: Songs I would like Britney to cover NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Songs I would like Britney to cover ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: January 13th Birthday "Conversation"!! ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: On inventing chords [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: oh god njc ["mackoliver" ] Re: first mention on list (njc) [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: On inventing chords njc [Dflahm@aol.com] RE: On inventing chords ["Wally Kairuz" ] Fw: Songs I would like Britney to cover (for AOL users) [Emiliano ] A coupla freebies for ya... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Oh Boy -- Please Spank Me Hard (NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: oh god njc -- oops, it's a big LONG (NJC) ["Lori Fye" Subject: Re: oh god njc Paul Mepschen wrote: >WHen I first joined this list I met two or three kind people, who were >welcoming. But I found out this list is as incrowd as incrowd gets > It isn't always so. > >Before I leave this annoying and pathetic excuse for a joni mitchell internet >list, > not a fair description tho one can understand how one would think that right now. > I want at least to have said that I think the US are in fact the most >violent society history has ever created. > An American list is not the best place to point this out!;-) >On the other hand, I find it UNBELIEVABLE that people who love joni mitchell >vote for and defend a blatant homophobic, fundamentalist, pro-life fanatic. >What you hear in Joni's sounds is beyond me. > It has always baffled me too. It takes all sorts as they say. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 04:37:20 -0500 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: On Inventing chords It scares me to participate in this discussion. I had three years of music theory, but that was more than 20 years ago and there's a lot I don't remember. I see the individual tunings as the elements that provided JOni with the possibility to make interesting chords more easily than would have been possible in standard tuning. It is possible to do all of her chord changes from standard tuning and make them sound like her chords (I personally witnessed an Austrian jazz guitarist who did this), but you have to be very very good to be able to do this - it's not something easily attainable, or even intuitive. I don't think Joni's guitar chord progressions themselves are so strange. The tuning provides the basic harmonic framework. If we think of any particular tuning as the tonic, or I, of the key, then the barre on fret 5 is IV, and the barre on fret 7 is V. Many of her chord changes are done using barre chords and the only guitar song I can think of that actually modulates to another key is Harry's House/Centerpiece, but I don't think she did this modulation on her guitar. All of her guitar songs are in one basic key and the chord changes (between I,ii,iii,IV,V,vi,vii and their variations) could be worked out. Of course, what makes her chords sound more beautiful is that most of them *are* variations of I,ii,iii,IV,V,vi,vii - which is made possible by the various tunings. I think her piano music chord progressions are, harmonically speaking, much stranger (more unusual) than the guitar stuff. I think Paprika Plains, Judgement Of The Moon And Stars, and Impossible Dreamer are particularly interesting. Marian Vienna NP: Emmanuel - Jonatha Brooke ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:05:05 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: oh god njc On 14 Jan 2004, at 0:59, Paul Mepschen wrote: > WHen I first joined this list I met two or three kind people, who were > welcoming. But I found out this list is as incrowd as incrowd gets There is an element of that, but that's an unavoidable consequence of the fact that once a year, a bunch of these people (10% or so) get together in real life and spend a weekend drunk. Er, I mean, sharing a wonderful musical weekend in the New York state mountains. Inevitably, that leads to in "in crowd" situation, as you call it, where some people are obviously familiar with people on-list. Just something we have to accept, I'm afraid, and since it's not anyone's *fault* I think it hardly fair to rail against it so. > Before I leave this annoying and pathetic excuse for a joni mitchell > internet > list OK, ouch, to that one. Even with the rampant political discussions of late, there has still been a fair amount of nonpolitical NJC and JC conversation. There *is* something of an issue in that Joni has been mostly idle (from *our* perspective) for some time now, and inevitably that's going to lead to more NJC than JC material. If you are interested only in the Joni stuff, and the annoying and pathetic stuff is in the non-Joni category, join the joni-only list. But please don't go denigrating the list as a whole, especially as the nub of the recent ruckus looks like it consisted of a whole four or so people out of a list of, oh I dunno, 800-odd. Or, go start a better list - it's the Internet after all and it's everyone's oyster. I wish you luck if you decide to do so. (But I do wonder if it really is time for some rules "governing" political posts. It seems to be the one area that moves people to personal attacks, and having seen it happen in the past, I'd really rather not have seen it this time around, nor in the future. Additionally, while there's a majority of US based people here (I assume) it is an international list. As such, speaking personally, there are frequent times when I just couldn't give a flying one about US politics, despite that fact that it affects the whole world. The figures for 2002 suggest that the UK's crime rate was the worst in the world (including America) so my political worries are much closer to home...) Regards, - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 03:33:30 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: On Inventing chords Well put Marian. A couple more thoughts: to me, it seems joni was thinking like a piano player even when she was composing for guitar - the tunings allowed her to explore and create progressions that interested her without expert left-hand technique. Hmm, how to explain this... I play guitar a little bit better than I play piano (I don't play either particularly well), but with limited technique a whole world of chords and variations are available to me for composing on piano - I can't say the same for guitar. I imagine there are others who think more like guitar players and who find exploring and creating in that arena much easier than on piano. I think Joni made her guitar a piano. Dropping the bottom string down and using tunings to allow her to easily create suspended chords or play a D in the bassline of a C chord, etc. Technique-wise, I think Joni is a genius with her *right* hand. Particularly later on in her career. Marian, you could speak to this way better than I can, but her right-hand technique is so rhythmically complex in the later years - I can't even figure out what it is she is doing exactly in some instances. Marian Russell wrote: It is possible to do all of her chord changes from standard tuning and make them sound like her chords (I personally witnessed an Austrian jazz guitarist who did this), but you have to be very very good to be able to do this... You know who else can? JMDL's own Les Ross. Very impressive! Jenny Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 03:56:18 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: a propos of nothing - actor's studio (njc) anne@sandstrom.com wrote: Gee, I wonder how Joni would answer the questions???? Too bad she doesn't qualify to be on the show (actor's studio). Doesn't she? The host has invited several musican/composer of great importance. Hey if he could spend two hours with Billy Joel, I think Joni would be a shoe-in. Wouldn't that be amazing? The question is would she agree to do it? ; ) Jenny Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 05:09:39 -0700 From: "Bill Bubb" Subject: Oh Boy -- Please Spank Me Hard It appears I ruffled someone's feathers on the list by asking a simple question from a truly novice guitar picker like myself, something that had to do with where I could get information about Joni's tunings. The list -- this list is actually about learning. It's not just for posting web sites for everyone to see and jokes from tame to off-color. I read the bylaws or list rules at the web site before plugging in and I felt pretty darn comfortable actually for subscribing because.........................I felt I could actually ask some questions and get some direction and answers without people spanking me so hard for asking said such question. Thanks to those that provided me the answers that you have. I am going to unsubscribe to this list this morning and just rely on information that I can get from the internet and from Joni's web page. I don't know why it is but it never fails that when there is a discussion list for one subject or the other, there are people lurking that just want to kick someone, spank them and put someone down for asking questions. I subscribed to this list before Christmas and got turned off by some of the rude answers and snide comments I got when asking some questions or making a comment or two which I didn't feel was offensive. I plugged in last night with a question and had hopes that with asking a sincere question and being as sensitive to everyone that does get upset at someone that is the slightest bit not sensitive to all of their special needs. There's a mean-spirited virus on this list by several people and it's needs to be zapped. I had hopes of learning some good guitar information here and not get emails from some people trashing my questions. Thanks for that good ass-spanking you gave me. Never never going to resubsribe to another email discussion list on any subject as long as I live on this planet. Color me gone. Bill :^( ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 07:16:27 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: On inventing chords njc **I think it's important to know that Joni does not read music and doesn't really know a 3rd or a 5th from a hole in the ground - nor does she really care.** Same goes for that Ellington guy, & Thelonius Monk too, and many others I'm sure. Not knowing all the rules & conventions makes you automatically innovative, I think. You don't have a preconceived notion of how things "ought" to be done. I think this applies to just about everything in life. We all need to do a better job of asking ourselves "Why not" more often. Bob NP: Hajime Chitose, "Blue" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:49:02 +0100 From: "Paul Mepschen" Subject: re: oh god njc The going gets tough. my no holds barred approach yesterday doesn't help, I do regret it. But I pushed the send button myself, so I won't make apologies. I do think the list is incrowd -- I don't know if that's nobody's fault. you should ask the question: how many people that joined in the last year are still active on the list? I feel my post yesterday fits the Joni-tradition. She's not so subtle herself. I do wish I had expressed myself differently -- It makes no sense to choose such a strong approach. Paul - --------------------------------------------------------------------- The streetlight's still burning; She always misses. But the day she hits, That's the day she'll leave. That one little victory, that's all she needs! Joni Mitchell: Sunny Sunday ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:01:39 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: January 13th Birthday "Conversation"!! NJC Happiest of belated Birthdays wishes Claudia! One of the sweetest gentlest spirits that I've met on the JMDL. I'll never forget my first Jonifest and hearing you play at the church in Newburyport. Les was sitting next to me and asked "have you heard her before, she is very good". I'd imagine she's spending her birthday with that Dutch Uncle of ours over in the Netherlands, another very special person, dear to my heart. You guys were meant for each other. Have a beautiful life together you two. ~rosie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:06:47 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: oh god njc Chris Marshall wrote: > The figures for 2002 suggest that the UK's crime > rate was the worst in the world (including America Where on earth did you read that? Murder rates in one city in the USA are greater than in the whole of this country! Mind you, I guess the UK could have gone beserk in 2002 with out me noticing. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:13:18 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: Oh Boy -- Please Spank Me Hard (NJC) On 14 Jan 2004, at 12:09, Bill Bubb wrote: > It appears I ruffled someone's feathers on the list by asking a > simple question from a truly novice guitar picker like myself, > something that had to do with where I could get information about > Joni's tunings. Bill, If you're referring to Catherine's answer referring to the tab database on www.jmdl.com... I can't see what was at all ruffled in her reply. If not, what gives? - --Chris Marshall chrisATstryngs.com (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:27:33 -0500 (EST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: first mention on list (njc) I realize I am the fairest of fair weather fans (THIS is fair weather????), but I'll just share my sentiments in two words: ESKIMO UP!!!! You really have to be a New England sports fan (even the fair weather type) to appreciate the depth of sentiment in those two words... If you think I've lost my mind and am talking gibberish, never mind... lots of love Anne NPIMH: that song without words (except "hey!" or something) they play in sports stadiums and the image of snow being thrown in the air like fireworks... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:29:02 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: oh god njc On 14 Jan 2004, at 12:49, Paul Mepschen wrote: > The going gets tough. my no holds barred approach yesterday doesn't > help, I do > regret it. But I pushed the send button myself, so I won't make > apologies. I > do think the list is incrowd -- I don't know if that's nobody's fault. I've already mentioned the reason why I think it's possible to make the "in crowd" assertion. Why do you think there might be some "fault" to allocate there, given the naturally sociable nature of a bunch of people here? What could be done to change that? I'm not sure there *is* a way, but theorise away. > you should ask the question: how many people that joined in the last > year are still active on the list? Unfortunately in this case, I don't think we can draw a monthly chart showing %age of members still posting 12 months after they joined. Or, rather, we can (and, indeed, my stupid technically minded head is figuring out ways to do this right now) but we wouldn't draw any useful conclusions. If Joni had done something significant of late (no, the Geffen box set and Traveldirge* don't count) then I would hazard a guess that a lot of the last years new members *would* still be posting. As it is, there's a lot of dead air that gets filled up by the NJC stuff, and that'll appear in crowd I guess 'cos the core posters are the more outgoing, affable, people who are comfortable to natter about all and sundry. Some people are happy to do that on lists, others just want "core subject matter only" and won't talk about anything else. I really wonder, given the cirumstances, that the list can be any other way. - --Chris Marshall chrisATstryngs.com (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 07:42:23 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: Re: January 13th Birthday "Conversation"!! Happy Birthday, Claudia! One of my favorite memories of Jonifest was listening to Alison and Bob's version of "You Can Close Your Eyes" with you sitting next to me softly humming the harmony. It doesn't get better than that! Hope your birthday was great! Kerry _________________________________ "Dreams, Amelia, dreams and false alarms" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:20 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Tedder) Subject: Re: On Inventing chords and Joni's voice I have been most interested in all the posts about Joni's tunings and her voice. It always reminds me of the first time I heard her which was in '68 when my brother told me about Joni having seen her play in London and then he bought me STAS. I wasn't very keen on 'pop' music at that time but loved the music of Debussy. When I heard Joni it just was so like Debussy to my ears. I can never fully explain to people these days about how unique her sound was - but of course it was the tunings and her incredible use of voice and melody. With Debussy being an impressionist, I could fully understand and appreciate Joni's 'Painting with words and music' because that's what she's always done in my book, anyway. The songs have always been like paintings - as Debussy's music is,too. One of my all time favourite songs is 'Dawntreader'and hearing it on Tlog evoked a lot in me - - the young me alternating between my Debussy and Joni albums. The Tlog arrangement seemed to encapsulate both, for me. Love Anita PS I love my Joni Fest 2003 Song and Celebration mug. I'm going to check out if it has any similar power to the 2002 one. Whatever,it makes a might fine cuppa. PPS I now have a fab Takamine guitar with a built in tuner so you can take the volume off and chat away and tune by eye. It's so much easier - that is if the strings don't break! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:15:17 -0500 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: On Inventing chords Nice to hear from you, Jenny! On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 03:33:30 -0800 (PST) Jenny Goodspeed wrote: <> I agree with your first statement - the songs from STAS through FTR have particularly beautiful picking patterns and there is something definitely "genius" about them. The melodies, too, are incredibly beautiful. Maybe it's because I don't much like the right-hand rhythmic stuff of her later career that it doesn't seem so much genius-like as kind of eccentric (if not lazy) guitar playing. It's certainly unique to her and I'm not able to figure it out either (I can approximate it), but then I don't really want to learn how to play like that. I find her later guitar playing weird and kind of irritating if I pay close attention to its detail. The stuff on the albums usually sounds good - I think it helps that there are other instruments to fill in where the rhythmic playing cuts out the string tones or over-emphasizes them. What I have found irritating has been mostly in some of the live later stuff (except for that part in Sunny Sunday where there's just the muted strings and she's does that little rhythmic bit (I don't much like that song anyway, though - only one of a handful of her songs that I can say that about!)). In the irritating (to me) stuff, sometimes strings tones are ! emphasized repeatedly and IMO detract from the beauty of the songs. I prefer the early, intricate guitar playing. I think it took a lot more care and talent and ingenuity to play like that than what developed later on. But then, she moved into playing with other musicians - into playing with a band - and that kind of solo guitar playing - the intricate, pretty stuff - would have been drowned by the drums and other instruments and was therefore no longer appropriate. So what happened made sense, and worked. And of course, I love all those songs, especially the songs from C&S, HOSL, Hejira, & DJRD, but also from WTRF, NRH & TI - I just think the guitar playing on the early albums is more to be admired. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:33:10 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Songs I would like Britney to cover 1) Ray's Dad's Cadillac 2)Talk To Me (I just want to hear her say ' 'Til I pissed a tequila anaconda the full length of the parking lot' 3) Sire Of Sorrow ok, so I'm chuckling to myself here... Much Joni Jamie Zoob ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:35:37 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: January 13th Birthday "Conversation"!! njc (for AOL users) Wally says: happy birthday, claudia!!!!! i love you and i miss you. wally, wondering why the BF didn't look at its BD list today... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:37:38 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: oh god njc (for AOL users) Wally says: dear paul, > i'm so sad you've decided to go. i understand you, though. all of this shit is making me very weary. but years on the list have taught me the pleasures of the delete button. however, if this were my first contact with the list, i would feel just as annoyed as you do and leave and never look back. keep in touch. > love, wally ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:44:11 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: honesty - njc (for AOL users) Wally says: my mother would load a gun with her pearls and shoot me. the verdict would be death by chic. wally > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > > mackoliver > > Enviado el: Miircoles, 14 de Enero de 2004 01:46 a.m. > > Para: joni > > Asunto: Re: honesty - njc > > > > > > Kakki is anything but a liar. Have had much offline contact with her and > > have read everything she has ever posted. An above board lady. To be > > called that is terrible, to write the least. My mother would either > > administer a slap on the face or proceed to make us wash our > > mouths out with > > soap if we used the word. > > > > mack > > > > np: Hall and Oates ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:47:43 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: On inventing chords (for AOL users) Wally says: your point is SO valid, les. it almost seems as if her piano were trying to catch up on her guitar. she does use a couple of interesting tensions on LOTC but the real piano explosion happens on blue (album) and a lot more on FTR. her guitar chord progressions were already very interesting by then. wally ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:13:11 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: RE: On inventing chords Well, I remember listening to the original versions of Little Green and some of her early songs and there are some beautiful (yet strange) chord structures happening. 'The Arrangement' is not conventional 'songwriting'. Move on to For the Roses and her piano playing gets more intese and intriguing. Court and Spark is also a song where the chords bounce to the unexpected. Joni's songs are some of the hardest to play (or memorize) because of that very reason. Everyone (okay, most band musicians) is used to 1, 4,5 chord pattern; then you get to JM. Court and Spark seems to change key and back- plus so does the Same Situation. Add in all her 11th and 9th and suspended seconds and forth chords- and then add 7ths, 9ths, and 11ths and even 13ths on top of those in many of her piano songs- and I've played most of them. Whew! She taught me to play! Another song (that I've worked up for Jonifest) is Impossible Dreamer. Another Joni chord classic. My hands want to follow usual paths of pop music, and with Joni I have to really focus initially to get it. I didn't loose interest in Joni after Mingus. The Mingus lp itself was not as accessible as her early work. (except for TWTLIL. That is one of the most haunting songs I have ever heard.) But I did appreciate her moving into the pop-ular realm with WTRF. Yes I do, I LOVE that album. Love it love it! Joni could express joy and do it well. DED I had the personal comment that she was a bit late with coming into the 80's sound, but really enjoyed her social commentary. Why she apologized for it I'll never know. She just commented on what she was seeing. Now CMIAR is hit or miss. It starts out strong and fizzles miserably. (Then there is TBOBW. It totally rocks!!!) Now that I've rambled (lol) you can keep on bantering about Joni. I think she just played what she liked- she followed her heart. Who cares if she was technically ignorant or a musical savant... Steve At 10:22 PM 1/13/2004 -0700, Les Irvin wrote: >David Lahm writes: > > It is difficult to assign accurately a level of significance to > > the fact she was ignorant of coventional terminology. > > Certain relationships may (MAY!) have stayed in her memory > > or taste buds filed under who-knows?-what label. I myself would > > doubt that every time she started the process that ended up > > as "writing a song" her mind was a complete tabula rasa. > >Agree totally. I just think that the 'spices' (ie... odd chords) that >became a trademark of her music were, in large part, enabled by the open >tunings on the guitar. > >I'd be interested in your opinion David. Take the Ladies of the Canyon >album. Do you hear the same harmonic complexities on the piano songs as you >do on the guitar songs? To me, piano songs like Willy and Rainy Night House >are pretty standard harmonically; majors, minors, passing tones. The >harmonic complexities in those songs come from her voice, not from the >piano. > >Compare that with guitar songs like Conversation or The Priest. More >complex harmonically? Because of the open tunings? > >I think she heard a sound in her head that she could sing (of course) and >that the open tunings of the guitar allowed her... but maybe at this point >she couldn't quite find them on piano yet. > >Les, rushing in where angels fear to tread with all these REAL musicians on >the list... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:28:03 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: The power of that "Back to the Garden" Jonifest cup You are so welcome! Sometimes I get so overwhelmed thinking about Joni's talent's as both a singer, writer and artist. It's mind-boggling! I would be content if Joni decided to just revel in her achievments and be an icon. I am so proud of her!!! Love, Sherelle >From: Michael Paz >To: Sherelle Smith , Joni Digest >Subject: Re: The power of that "Back to the Garden" Jonifest cup >Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:10:19 -0600 > >This post made me smile a mile wide. Thanks. > >Paz > > > > I was washing out my 2002 Jonifest coffee cup at work this morning and >as I > > looked at it, I had an overwhelming sense of pride about it. I was >thrilled > > it sat in a place where coworkers could walk by and see that I am indeed >a > > Jonilista! All of a sudden, I had to hear all things Joni! I ran back to >my > > desk and immediately pulled up my Real One player where my Joni is >stored > > and immediately clicked on strains of the CD Turbulent Indigo. Now the >music > > has flowed to Court and Spark and has settled on "The Same Situation". >Oh > > the power of that cup!!! the president and vice president of my >organization > > just walked by and was I deterred? No! A thousand times no! The cup >makes me > > shameless!!! Willl the annoying speaker-car of Lyndon LaRoche playing >the > > "Hallelujuah Chorus" passing by our building deter me? No! I will just >turn > > up the volume! "Car On the Hill" will prevail!!! Such is life in >downtown > > DC! > > > > Love, Sherelle > > NP-"Down to You" > > > _________________________________________________________________ Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software  optimizes dial-up to the max! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/plus&ST=1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:33:35 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Songs I would like Britney to cover NJC After her little Las Vegas fiasco, she's more likely to do Laura's "Wedding Bell Blues". :~) Bob NP: Steve Earle, "Amerika V6.0 (The Best We Can Do) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:39:27 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Songs I would like Britney to cover paprika plains (hip-hop choreography during the instrumental part) wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Jamie > Zubairi > Enviado el: Miircoles, 14 de Enero de 2004 10:33 a.m. > Para: Joni JMDL > Asunto: Songs I would like Britney to cover > > > 1) Ray's Dad's Cadillac > 2)Talk To Me (I just want to hear her say ' 'Til I > pissed a tequila anaconda the full length of the > parking lot' > 3) Sire Of Sorrow > > > > > ok, so I'm chuckling to myself here... > > > > Much Joni > > > Jamie Zoob > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:39:04 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE: The power of that "Back to the Garden" Jonifest cup (NJC) Ha! Ha! Thanks Bree! Yes, I have heard some of the songs Michael has recorded and yes, he has an extremely soulful voice. I have the last CD he released prior to "Motown" and he does a Motown tune, no, he "rocks" a Motown tune-"Ain't That Peculiar". He also does another song that brings me to tears called, "The Meaning of Love". In fact, there are two or three songs up there that bring me to tears. If you get a chance to hear it, the name of the CD is called "Obsession Blues" I believe. What an amazing talent! Love, Sherelle >From: "Bree Mcdonough" >To: sherellesmith@hotmail.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: RE: The power of that "Back to the Garden" Jonifest cup >Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:07:02 -0500 > >Sherelle....Sherelle...you are just too cool!! > >Love.. > >Bree > >Ps Has anybody heard Michael McDonald sings Motown CD? Really good...such >a soulful voice > > >>From: "Sherelle Smith" >>Reply-To: "Sherelle Smith" >>To: joni@smoe.org >>Subject: The power of that "Back to the Garden" Jonifest cup >>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:09:14 +0000 >> >>I was washing out my 2002 Jonifest coffee cup at work this morning and as >>I looked at it, I had an overwhelming sense of pride about it. I was >>thrilled it sat in a place where coworkers could walk by and see that I am >>indeed a Jonilista! All of a sudden, I had to hear all things Joni! I ran >>back to my desk and immediately pulled up my Real One player where my Joni >>is stored and immediately clicked on strains of the CD Turbulent Indigo. >>Now the music has flowed to Court and Spark and has settled on "The Same >>Situation". Oh the power of that cup!!! the president and vice president >>of my organization just walked by and was I deterred? No! A thousand times >>no! The cup makes me shameless!!! Willl the annoying speaker-car of Lyndon >>LaRoche playing the "Hallelujuah Chorus" passing by our building deter me? >>No! I will just turn up the volume! "Car On the Hill" will prevail!!! Such >>is life in downtown DC! >> >>Love, Sherelle >>NP-"Down to You" >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed >>experience. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 > _________________________________________________________________ High-speed usersbe more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet Software. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:45:04 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Amateur art Totally cool Bob, I'd like to have a poster of this. Thanks for sending it! db >>> 1/13/2004 3:12:46 PM >>> Hadn't seen this one before & thought it was pretty neat! http://www.kirstio.com/joni_mitchell2.htm This message has been scanned by the E250. Warning! This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify me by telephone (numbers above) and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them. Thank you. <<<>>> This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:54:55 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: January 13th Birthday "Conversation"!! Happy Birthday to one of the lovliest songbirds of the JMDL!! Hope your day was wonderful. love donna >>> "Scott and Jody" 1/13/2004 6:55:59 PM >>> I sent the International *NO sign* for Mercury in Retrograde to BF. He must not have received it yet, hence the communication breakdown on this day! If I may, I would be honored to wish a very gifted and wonderful woman A Very Happy Birthday lovely, sweetbird Claudia SanSouice!!!!!! You are in our thoughts today and everyday, much love, jody and scott NP-Claud and John-"If My Eyes Were Blind" This message has been scanned by the E250. Warning! This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify me by telephone (numbers above) and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them. Thank you. <<<>>> This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:15:24 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: On Inventing chords likewise marian! i really appreciate your take on joni's right-hand style - especially since you have spent so much time learning and doing tab for her songs (thank you!). i think i equate innovation with genius - and her idiosyncratic rhythm in later years is so distinct and unusual that I am impressed by it, though, as you also mentioned, it is not always my favorite sound. i had not thought of it as laziness. but yes, I think her priorities definitely shifted. she left travis-style picking far far behind her after FTR. jenny Marian Russell wrote: Nice to hear from you, Jenny! On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 03:33:30 -0800 (PST) Jenny Goodspeed wrote: <> I agree with your first statement - the songs from STAS through FTR have particularly beautiful picking patterns and there is something definitely "genius" about them. The melodies, too, are incredibly beautiful. Maybe it's because I don't much like the right-hand rhythmic stuff of her later career that it doesn't seem so much genius-like as kind of eccentric (if not lazy) guitar playing. It's certainly unique to her and I'm not able to figure it out either (I can approximate it), but then I don't really want to learn how to play like that. I find her later guitar playing weird and kind of irritating if I pay close attention to its detail. The stuff on the albums usually sounds good - I think it helps that there are other instruments to fill in where the rhythmic playing cuts out the string tones or over-emphasizes them. What I have found irritating has been mostly in some of the live later stuff (except for that part in Sunny Sunday where there's just the muted strings and she's does that little rhythmic bit (I don't much like that song anyway, though - only one of a handful of her songs that I can say that about!)). In the irritating (to me) stuff, sometimes strings tones are ! emphasized repeatedly and IMO detract from the beauty of the songs. I prefer the early, intricate guitar playing. I think it took a lot more care and talent and ingenuity to play like that than what developed later on. But then, she moved into playing with other musicians - into playing with a band - and that kind of solo guitar playing - the intricate, pretty stuff - would have been drowned by the drums and other instruments and was therefore no longer appropriate. So what happened made sense, and worked. And of course, I love all those songs, especially the songs from C&S, HOSL, Hejira, & DJRD, but also from WTRF, NRH & TI - I just think the guitar playing on the early albums is more to be admired. Marian Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:15:52 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: On inventing chords If we could literally examine LOTC, Les...give me a little space to listen. I'll make the time asap and get back to you. DL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:22:00 -0600 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Re: oh god njc Well Paul, sometimes candor isn't appreciated here, or in the world at large despite folks asking for it. They sometimes don't like it when they get it. I find your words right on in this last post about expressing yourself being in the Joni tradition. More importantly, I feel, is that you expressed yourself in the Paul tradition. Nothing to be sorry for, your opinion is as worthy as hers or anyones elses, in my estimation. 'if you're feeling contempt, well then you tell it', 'strike every chord that you feel.' mack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:22:52 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: first mention on list (njc) "Eskimo up" is a cold werather adaptation of the "Cowboy up" battle cry that the Red Sox fans were using last summer. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:30:24 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: On inventing chords njc "Not knowing all the rules and conventions makes you automatically innovative, I think." Sorry, but I find that EXTREMELY dubious. LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:35:34 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: On inventing chords david, could please post to the list at large when you get back on this subject? i'm very interested. wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > Dflahm@aol.com > Enviado el: Miercoles, 14 de Enero de 2004 01:16 p.m. > Para: ljirvin@jmdl.com > CC: joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: On inventing chords > > > If we could literally examine LOTC, Les...give me a little space > to listen. > I'll make the time asap and get back to you. > > > > DL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:02:15 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: Songs I would like Britney to cover (for AOL users) Wally says: paprika plains (hip-hop choreography during the instrumental part) wally ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:57:22 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Songs I would like Britney to cover NJC After her little Las Vegas fiasco, she's more likely to do Laura's "Wedding Bell Blues". :~) What about Freida Paine's Band of Gold for the ex-hubby? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:23:06 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: oh god njc Colin and Paul Mepschen opined: > >On the other hand, I find it UNBELIEVABLE that people who love joni mitchell > >vote for and defend a blatant homophobic, fundamentalist, pro-life fanatic. > >What you hear in Joni's sounds is beyond me. > > > It has always baffled me too. > > It takes all sorts as they say. > Why is a "conservative" person's love of Joni "unbelievable" and "baffling?" I'm reminded of a line from a "liberal" columnist in a San Francisco newspaper a couple years back...the subject was a rant on the "gentrification" of certain nieghborhoods in the Bay Area. The columnist stated (rhetorically, I assume) "Can 'nice' people drive BMWs and live in multi-million dollar homes?" Well, the answer is unequivocally "yes." We conservatives love children and small animals. We're not ALL rich CEOs. We support charities. We read poetry. We camp in the woods. We listen to rock 'n' roll, pop, hip-hop (not me, tho!), jazz, and classical music. We work hard at our jobs. Some of us are intensely religious, some of us don't give a damn. Some drink martinis, some smoke pot, some do both. Cut us...we bleed. We laugh, we cry, we celebrate, we grieve. And some of us also love, appreciate, and want more of, Joni Mitchell. In short, aside from our political beliefs, we 're pretty much JUST LIKE YOU. Liberal intolerance for viewpoints other than their own, and their habit of viewing "us" as fundamentally bad, or somehow flawed, baffles ME. Best Regards, Buck NPIMH: Sly and the Family Stone - "Everyday People" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:59:42 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: A coupla freebies for ya... Upset because you've already fallen back into all those bad habits you swore you were going to break this year? Well, don't beat yourself up, kick back and enjoy a couple of Joni covers: http://www.gemmaschettino.com/music.htm (No need to thank me, just doin' my job...) Bob, prowling the web for Joni covers so you don't have to NP: Earth Wind & Fire, "All About Love(First Impressions)" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:46:30 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Oh Boy -- Please Spank Me Hard (NJC) > Color me gone. Bill :^( Bill, come back!! Who was rude to you? I'll spank them myself. Seriously. But please don't take everything that's written very personally. Sometimes it hard to express oneself in this medium. We've been down this road before, when "old timers" have complained that a new subscriber has asked a question for the millionth time, but we should all be happy that anyone is asking at all. (What does "SIQUOMB" mean again? I forget.) ; ) Stick around, and ask whatever you'd like. And if anyone truly is being rude or snide, feck 'em. Lori, who hates seeing people unsub for any reason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:55:43 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: The power of that "Back to the Garden" Jonifest cup-now NJC Sherelle wrote, of Lyndon LaRouche's apparent politicking: > A "Cheney is the devil" poster was plastered on the back of the truck > and it must have been traveling at a mind-boggling three miles an > hour on 7th Street during lunch hour! In this city, that is enough to > make someone jump out of their car and do bodily harm to the driver! > Everyone is in a hurry here! (Lori knows!) Well, Cheney IS the devil, but that's still not a reason to hold up traffic on 7th Street during lunch hour in DC. ; ) Lori, who every morning shakes her head in amusement at the goofballs RUNNING to catch the metro train -- the trains arrive like every 3 minutes ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:09:55 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: The power of that "Back to the Garden" Jonifest cup-now NJC Lori sez: > Well, Cheney IS the devil, but that's still not a reason to hold up > traffic on 7th Street during lunch hour in DC. ; ) Hmmmm. I wonder if this is justification enough for me to pursue Satanism? > > Lori, > who every morning shakes her head in amusement at the goofballs RUNNING > to catch the metro train -- the trains arrive like every 3 minutes > Agreed!! BART trains ran every **15 minutes** in SFO and I never ran for one...unless it was the 1:00 a.m. train leaving Montgomery Street...the LAST one out of The City. Buck, missing SFO just a LITTLE bit this morning... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:09:11 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Oh Boy -- Please Spank Me Hard A: Bye Bill B: Okay, what the funk are you talking about? You are so thin-skinned that a helpful reply sends you into fuck-you mode? You need therapy. Bill Bubb wrote: I don't know why it is but it never fails that when there is > a discussion list for one subject or the other, there are people > lurking that just want to kick someone, spank them and put > someone down for asking questions. > > I subscribed to this list before Christmas and got turned > off by some of the rude answers and snide comments I got when > asking some questions or making a comment or two which I didn't > feel was offensive. I plugged in last night with a question and > had hopes that with asking a sincere question and being as > sensitive to everyone that does get upset at someone that is the > slightest bit not sensitive to all of their special needs. > > There's a mean-spirited virus on this list by several people > and it's needs to be zapped. I had hopes of learning some good > guitar information here and not get emails from some people > trashing my questions. > > Thanks for that good ass-spanking you gave me. Never never > going to resubsribe to another email discussion list on any > subject as long as I live on this planet. > > Color me gone. Bill :^( ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:48:25 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: oh god njc -- oops, it's a big LONG (NJC) Oh dear, Paul ... I realize you've written again since this post, and I have no plan to "call you out" because everyone is entitled to write what they feel. But I'd like to address a few things ... > WHen I first joined this list I met two or three kind people, who were > welcoming. But I found out this list is as incrowd as incrowd gets I know it appears that way, probably more often than not. And I know that makes it tough for new subscribers to feel like they can really join in, but I honestly don't believe the "in crowd" thing is intentional. It's mostly a function of this list existing for nearly 7 1/2 years and that there are some very long-time subscribers here. There have been 7 "major" JoniFests, plus PazFest and a UK Fest, and any number of smaller gatherings over the years. There are some serious friendships here (not to mention a number of romantic relationships and let's not forget that marriage!). So there are inside jokes and the like. Truly though, I believe I can speak for all of us when I say that everyone wants this list to feel inclusive, ESPECIALLY to newcomers. If you have a question, ASK. If you wanted to be included, JUMP IN. I promise the water is warm (and it's not because someone peed in it)! > Before I leave this annoying and pathetic excuse for a joni mitchell > internet list, As Chris said, "Ouch." I beg to differ but I'll let it go at that. > I want at least to have said that I think the US are in fact the most > violent society history has ever created. Whether headed by Clinton > or Bush makes no difference for the Palestians that catch American > made bullets, or Columbian victims of your war on drugs, or sixteen > year old black boys in prison for the mere possession of some > marihuana in your own country. I agree with your points. A lot of things in the U.S. are pretty fucked up. On the other hand, people from all over the world keep moving to the U.S., so ... I dunno. What does that mean? > On the other hand, I find it UNBELIEVABLE that people who love joni > mitchell vote for and defend a blatant homophobic, fundamentalist, > pro-life fanatic. What you hear in Joni's sounds is beyond me. Hmm. I would agree with you except that I have very good, long time friends who voted (and will vote again) for Bush. I don't really understand it either (although I'm trying to learn more about it), but I do know that everyone has different priorities. Some (okay, most) of my closest friends are folks I met while I was in the Air Force, and a few of them are still in the service. I know that they (and the one who have retired from the service) tend to vote for the candidate they believe will do the most good for the military and for national defense. It's exceedingly important to them. My own priorities seem similar to yours, Paul: as a lesbian, agnostic, pro-choice woman, it matters to me a great deal that my country not fall into the hands of an administration who wants to force its "morals" upon me. On the other hand, when Clinton tried and failed to change the gays-in-the-military policy and we ended up with the joke that is "don't ask, don't tell," I heard some of my gay friends say they would never vote for Clinton again because he had let them down. (Oddly, these were friends who had never been in the military, but anyway ...) I reminded them that none of us should be one issue voters, and that we must consider everything a candidate represents and intends. (Besides, if we continue to work for positive and fair changes, those changes -- particularly in the area of gay rights -- will come in time.) My boss and my favorite coworker are Republicans who voted for Bush, but both are pro-choice and pro-environment. They're both fiscal conservatives, though, and believe the Republicans serve their interests better. Personally, even if I were fiscally conservative (and maybe I am in some respects, but I also don't mind paying more taxes if the money is used wisely), I'm not a war hawk (or a chickenhawk) and for that reason and the others mentioned previously (and you know there may be more) I can't take the chance that the "Moral Majority" (an oxymoron if ever there was one) will remain in power. So I still plan to vote for whoever runs against Bush. But I'm not going to shit-can friendships over political disagreements. There's more than one aspect to each and every one of my friends -- and to each and every one of us. And if my friends "get" and love Joni, well that's 1 million extra points in their favor! So ... dig a little deeper into people's personalities and beliefs ... you may be pleasantly surprised at what you find. And stick around! I would miss you being here. Lori, stepping down from the soapbox (again, for now) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #22 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)