From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #17 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, January 12 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 017 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: PNAC NJC/ labels ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: JMDL Digest V2004 #12 ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 ["Kate Bennett" ] In Search Of The Lost Chord [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 [tantra-apso ] Re: John Guerin, 100% JC ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] PNAC-njc [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: John Guerin, njc now, humor alert ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: kakki's honesty - njc ["patrick leader" ] Re: BSN [Neil Orts ] Today in History: January 12 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: January 12 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:22:10 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: PNAC NJC/ labels Buck> ALL political discourse is conducted within the confines of how one defines one's POV. < No it is not...this is another generalization which I don't agree with... > It is neither demeaning nor insulting to identify a particular POV, along with those that support that POV, as being either liberal or conservative.< It is not demeaning when you define yourself, but when you make assumptions about someone else it can be... This is actually my whole point... > You and Patrick have accused Kakki and I of not being "deep" in our political thinking because we haven't been exposed to the PNAC document< I have never said anything of the kind & to be interpreted as such is so frustrating to me... >I find your lecture above mildly inflammatory...and feel as if I've been "taken to the woodshed."< It wasn't a lecture it was a post in response to what you wrote...i am sorry you felt it was inflammatory...it was not intended to be...i was struggling to find a way to tell you how I honestly felt without insulting you in return... Feel free to let me know specifically what part irked you as life is for learning...:~} ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:27:36 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2004 #12 oh yes, i never meant to infer that the companies went overseas out of any mission to help others...however, in the process i know that some do provide improved conditions for their workers...this is not meant to speak for all companies only what i have experienced... > While I can see Kate's point, I also know that the reason many of these companies go overseas is NOT to help out the people in the foreign countries who work for them, but rather to screw American workers by not having to pay them decent wages, and also by fattening their pockets even more by paying very cheap wages for the same work. Rick < ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:03:29 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 here is the link to a memorial site > for John Guerin, the best drummer I have ever heard. > http://johnguerin.com/ How sad...i am shocked to hear of someone so young dying from the flu...it said he had heart failure as a result...& that his son had died before him...which is soooo sad...i wonder if he had been suffering from a broken heart...:{ Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:06:34 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: In Search Of The Lost Chord **Joni Mitchell has guitar chords that she actually INVENTED** I have to admit that I didn't know this, Rick...exactly which chords did she invent? Or did you mean that she devised new tunings for already existing chords? Not being a musician I don't know if there's a difference. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:58:50 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 Kate Bennett wrote: >here is the link to a memorial site > for John Guerin, the best drummer >I have ever heard. > > >>http://johnguerin.com/ >> >> > >How sad...i am shocked to hear of someone so young dying from the >flu... > It is not so uncommon. My neighbours son, with no health problems, died at age 27 from heart failure brought on by the 'flu. The virus can attack the heart muscle it seems. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:27:14 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: John Guerin, 100% JC I think "1" was deliberate too. (Extra points for using the word "deliberate".) If I remember my JMDL history, "the one of the chord" is the same thing as saying "the root of the chord". (Mister Lahm?) I think it implies you're looking at the intervals within a chord. (Jenny?) If so, I nominate it for a place in Les' Glossary. So, saying "showing me where one was" meant giving me instruction in music theory. The fact that it also sounds mysteriously Zen-like transforms it into an artful thank-you. It's a shame that it was mangled for the reissue. Maybe someone thought it was a typo and "fixed it". Too bad they didn't catch "boy winds" when they put "Urge For Going" on "HITS". Wad'da 'ya gonna do, huh? BTW, the LP issued in Japan also says "1". The songbook for THOSL has lyrics but not the credits. All the best, Jim "Lama" Bob S. said, >>I got out my vinyl and CD, too, and noticed 1. The "1" in "where 1 was" was replaced with "where I was" on the CD insert. I imagine this was a deliberate edit - I wonder whether by Joni or by whoever was in charge of the CD insert remake. (My guess - not Joni - and the the 1 was deliberate, thought obscure). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:30:45 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: PNAC-njc Jenny asks: "What happens if a situation arises where the promotion of political and economic freedom in a particular country or region is in fact at odds with American interests? What then?" It's a crucial question but the broadness of the terms you invoke make it most difficult to answer. I am fairly certain that agreement will never be reached on what constitutes "American interests" or "political and economic freedom" except in a very relativistic or limited way. Yes, if the government of country X released from prison the publisher of a newspaper critical of that government, many would probably applaud a victory for political freedom. Successfully encouraging a retreat from violence is a quantifiable good. Likewise, a discrete step in the direction of private ownership of certain businesses where private ownership did not exist before would be applauded as a victory for economic freedom. But I believe the steps are limited on which broad consensus would emerge.Consider the history of organized labor in this nation if you want an example of how difficult it is to evaluate human striving in terms of an abstract like "freedom." We may need to find a more quantifiable set of terms for this discussion to achieve clarity and forward motion. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:32:36 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: John Guerin, njc now, humor alert Bob S. said, > 2. Both ascribe THOSL as "written and composed by John Guerin and Joni > Mitchell, Crazy Crow Music BMI/ MadMan's Drum Music ASCAP". Joni > writes "John > Guerin and I collaborated on THOSL". I wonder if they > collaborated on either, > both or neither of the words and music, separately, and who was > responsible for > which. Rumor had it that 'John' said, "Let's write a swimming pool." :) that was a Beatles reference. thank you. All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:49:17 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #6 << From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Both Sides Now While we were listening to Travelogue I found myself telling her over and over again..."Don't judge her by this version...just WAIT until you hear her *original* recording of this song..." Forgive me for what I'm about to say, but visions of those obnoxious TV ads flogging Rod Stewart's "American Standards" or whatever the marketing mavens are calling those two laughable albums kept popping into my head while listening to Travelogue. Does anyone else feel the same? As a newbie, I hesitated in posting my views on this subject because I'm quite sure you guys have been down this road all too often in the past couple of years (or three). Best Regards, bp >> Since you asked for other opinions, I offer mine: I'm not crazy about Travelogue but I don't think it's as bad as many other JMDLers make it out to be. As far as Rod Stewart's "American Standards", my wife loves them and I think they're quite listenable. Sure, I'm old enough to know and love all the originals but I can listen to Stewart's versions with no problem; they're great background music to put on when you've got a few couples over for drinks and conversation. I actually think they're better than some of the "original" albums he made in later years. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:50:39 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Actor's Studio questions... (njc) 1: What is your favorite word? prattle 2: What is your least favorite word? follower 3: What turns you on? intelligent discourse 4: What turns you off? vacuous discourse 5: What sound do you love? An ATM dispensing cash. 6: What sound do you hate? An ATM dispensing an excuse instead of #5. 7: What is your favorite curse word? uh-oh 8: What profession other than yours would you like to attempt? photographer for Rolling Stone, naturally. Jann, here's my number: 859-291-1717. Call today or just have someone send out the Platinum AmEx card. 9: What profession would you not like to participate in? Reviewer of popular music in 2003. 10: If heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates? "Close enough. He'll do better next time, as a staff photograher for Rolling Stone. Let 'em in." Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:03:31 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: NJC/ labels Norman Pennington wrote: > > >I'll think more, Vince, if >you'll agree to be less stupid. Yes, I am resulting to "name-calling." >While I haven't relegated you to the kill file, you're damned close. > Takes care of placing everything in perspective. Whatever floats your boat. Go for it. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:36:00 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: kakki's honesty - njc i just have to respond to one point here... kakki wrote: >I know you love to call me a liar, Patrick. no, i hate it. I HATE HATE HATE it when i know that you (kakki) have said and even perpetuated a lie. i wish you would never ever do it again. i wish that with all my heart, because you do do a lot of research and present alternate views that i value. so when you lie... I HATE IT. kakki wrote: It has been widely reported that much of the >intelligence handed over was very defective and that people in the FBI and >CIA who had pertinent information had their reports quashed (under the >Clinton administration). All this has come out in official investigations. > and i wrote: WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!? you're suggesting that the clinton admin purposely handed bush bad intelligence. that would be treason! you better back that up. and i also wrote: i've heard no reports of good intelligence being quashed under the clinton admin. the worst case of intel agencies fucking up is agent rowley, summer 2001, on bush's watch. and i don't blame bush for that, either. and in next post, you (kakki) wrote: >Well what about the whistleblowers from the FBI and CIA who said that the >real intelligence on the hijackers plans were quashed during Clinton's >years? Remember? A few of them were on the front of Time for Persons of >the Year. As I posted, FBI agent Coleen Rowley in December was one of the people of the year 2002 for her defiance of the security administration. the incident in question happened in july or august 2001, during the bush administration. Who lied here? Kakki did, and she has lied again to pretend that this incident happened during the clinton admin. and she's lied once more when she says: "And I am ultimately not trying to make this a Clinton vs Bush fault thing" bullshit kakki... you are always trying to make bush not be at fault. for anything. i HATE THAT YOU LIE. patrick np - silence ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:33:14 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Orts Subject: Re: BSN - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > I'm wondering if that "in the context of the whole > CD" > thing might not be the crux of the biscuit. I find, > whether I'm listening to BSN or Travelogue, I can't > listen to the whole thing, or any more than maybe 3 > or > 4 songs from either of these, without finding they > all > start to sound the same. This is interesting because this was exactly the problem I had getting into Hejira. Jaco's bass was so dominant on that album that every track sounded the same to me. I'm happy to report that I finally did "get" it, and it's become one of my favorite albums. But there were years there of me just not understanding why so many JMDLers loved that album so much. BSN was a disappointment to me. I'm not widely versed in the music of the era she was covering, but I like a lot of what I've heard. I was familiar with "I Wish I was in Love Again," for example, and I hate Joni's version. To me, that song needs to swing a lot more. I agree that a lot of that album sounds the same, and I suppose I'll blame it on what I sense is Joni's attempt to sing them all as smokey blues numbers. It just felt like she missed all the songs' individual qualities. So I approached Travelogue with much fear and trembling. And I was pleasantly surprised. As I said before, I loved how Dawntreader translated to the orchestra. In a bit of irony, given my feelings about Hejira, I felt it was her arrangements for songs from that album that suffered the most. The sort of jaunty rhythms under "I'm traveling in some vehicle . . ." just feels all wrong. Maybe I'm being closed to a new interpretation of that song in particular, but i learned to love it for the melancholy it evoked. I do think one problem with Travelogue, one that probably makes the songs sound all alike, is that I can't always tell what song is coming up by the intro. The intros all sound similar to me, like she she couldn't come up with unique ideas for each song. I especially think the intro to Cherokee Louise is misleading, although I like the arrangement when she gets into the vocals. (I've wonder, though, why she replaced "Archie and Silver Screen" with "comics and magazines.") So why am I typing all this so late at night (early in the morning)? Just to affirm that, yes, there is a sameness to all the tracks? Yes, that must be it. Catherine, consider yourself affirmed. :) - -Neil affirmer ===== Neil Ellis Orts 713-838-1787 Houston, TX keep up with my creative endeavors--join my newsletter list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/neonews ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 02:23:06 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: January 12 1986: Joni was interviewed at WNEW-FM. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 02:23:06 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: January 12 On January 12 the following articles were published: 1969: "The Miami Festival: An Inspired Bag of Pop" - New York Times (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=824 1986: "New York Interview" - WNEW-FM (Interview - Audio Transcription) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=728 2003: "Judgement of the moon and stars" - Vail Daily (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1051 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #17 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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