From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #14 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, January 10 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 014 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC/ the economy [David Sadowski ] Fw: Actor's Studio questions... (njc) (for AOL users) [Emiliano ] Re: Both Sides Now, Travelogue and the earlier work [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #12 - prophetic? [Catherine McKay ] woo - hoo - what a bargain njc !!!!!!!!! ["ron" ] Re: Both Sides Now [Bobsart48@aol.com] joni news? [SMC1254@aol.com] RE: JMDL Digest V2004 #12 - prophetic? ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Both Sides (Now) Cyrano [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Both Sides (Now) Cyrano njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: joni news? [Catherine McKay ] Re: woo - hoo - what a bargain njc !!!!!!!!! [Catherine McKay ] Re: Both Sides Now [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Dave Matthews, njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Actor's Studio questions... (njc) ["Martin Giles" ] John Guerin 1939-2004 ["Les Irvin" ] Re: joni news? [Deb Messling ] RE: the economy NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: PNAC NJC ["kakki" ] Bush begins US slave trade NJC [vince ] Re: calm discourse -plus, persons of the year, 2002- njc ["kakki" ] Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: NJC/ the economy ["kakki" ] RE: Bush begins US slave trade NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Howdy, again. [Neil Orts ] Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 [Chris Marshall ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 02:14:34 -0600 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: NJC/ the economy The economy appears to be expanding right now and that's a good thing, but there is no way it is the best it has been in decades. Even if the jobs situation improves, chances are Bush will be the first president since Hoover to preside over an net loss in jobs. The jobless rate is understated as it does not count millions of people who have been unable to find work. At some point the statisticians decide that you're not looking for work, when chances are that you simply can't find the same sort of work you did. During the Clinton administration, both jobs and wages increased, while under Bush there are fewer jobs and lower wages. Now, on top of that, Bush seems committed to allowing millions of illegal aliens to legally take jobs away from law abiding Americans. When it comes to jobs and wages, Bush has sold out the American worker. But this is fine with him, as long as it increases corporate profits in the short run. There is no way that the recent increases in the stock market can make up for the trillions of dollars that disappeared when the market declined in 2001-02. On top of that, the Bush administration has been the worst on civil liberties in decades. Meanwhile, we have squandered the goodwill of the world that we had after 9-11. Instead of concentrating on Bin Laden, the real terrorist threat, we have wasted untold billions while getting bogged down in Iraq. The whole weapons of mass destruction things was a hoax. Meanwhile, this administration seems to be pretty corrupt, as top officials steer fat no-bid contracts to campaign contributors and companies they used to run. The Republicans once stood for fiscal responsibility. But now Bush, like Reagan, pushes voodoo economics... cutting taxes while hugely increasing spending. The result is that the value of the dollar is collapsing abroad, and the IMF is warning the US that we are putting the entire global economic recovery at risk. Bush is a risk taker on a large scale... a gambler, a plunger. Also, when Bush was the CEO of a company, he endorsed the same kinds of unethical and questionable accounting scams that eventually led to the Enron debacle. As far as people being ignorant of how Clinton is like Hitler, I must profess to the same sort of ignorance. 99.9% of the American public has no such realization, because there is really nothing to compare between the two men. Clinton was a popular president who was elected twice, and would've been elected a third time had it been possible. He presided over a generally successful presidency, where America was respected abroad, and jobs and wages increased at home. Hitler was a despot who ignited the flames of world war, leading to the deaths of untold millions worldwide, including the Holocaust, and large-scale destruction of much of Europe. At the end of the war he killed himself rather than face capture. Only an insane person would say that the two men are alike. vince wrote: >>>The economy is the best, as far as indicators, it has been in decades. >>> >>> >>> >Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. > > > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>The tax cuts worked and I've made up all the losses in my retirement >>account from the past three >>years in the past six months.< >> >>That is great, I am glad to hear you're retirement account has made up >>its losses. You work hard & deserve to be able to count on this. I wish >>I could say the same for mine. It has been less spectacular & is still >>much lower from where it was a few years ago but it is creeping up >>rather than down which is a good thing. >> >> >> >It will take a long time to make up the losses on my pension account and >my 3 other funds, one of them being Gage's college fund. I lost many >thousands. Agreed with Kate that it has made up some ground the past >few months but only a fraction of what was lost. > >As jobs are moving overseas to where people get paid pennies per hour, >it is time to consider something a friend of mine pointed out >yesterday: slavery still exists in the world. And all of us (and us >includes me very much) with mutual funds or other Wall Street >investments are supporting it and seeking to profit from it. It is a >hard truth, but truth it is. > >Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 10:24:58 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: Actor's Studio questions... (njc) (for AOL users) Wally says: my insightful answers: > > > 1: What is your favorite word? SURE > > 2: What is your least favorite word? MAYBE > > 3: What turns you on? CHALLENGES > > 4: What turns you off? POVERTY > > 5: What sound do you love? C MAJ9 CHORDS > > 6: What sound do you hate? DENTIST DRILL > > 7: What is your favorite curse word? F*CKING C*NTING HELL (i learned that from a hot-blooded canadian) > > 8: What profession other than yours would you like to attempt? DRAMATIC SOPRANO > > 9: What profession would you not like to participate in? MORTICIAN > > 10: If heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates? ALL THE PEOPLE AND ANIMALS YOU'VE LOVED ARE HERE ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:01:22 -0000 From: "Mike Wood" Subject: Both Sides Now, Travelogue and the earlier work Why do so many people feel the need to "ake sides"? The world (well, my world) would be an infinitely poorer place without both BSN (I can't get through from Answer Me to the end of A Case of You without tears and - literally - no other artist moves me to tears like Joni) and Travelogue, which is worth the money just for the staggering rereading of the Hejira classics. Ofcourse, I wouldn't also be without FTR, or DJRD, or the other records mentioned, but is the cost of having both vresions really so much in comparison to the pleasure gained? Compre ti to eating out, or visiting the cinema, or - for Petes sake - buying a c.d.by someone else! I lsiten to other peoples music, too, of course, but look at the lyrics of some of the others quoted here and -er - don't they seem a bit - well - shallow to you. And I am very sorry, but I od include most of Dylan in this. As well as Joni now, I am listening to quite a lot of Norah Jones and Katie Melua - I am fairly new to this board so don't now if these artists have yet ben dissected - and I am enjoying it but ... well, its not the same and I'm strayingoff the point here so forgive me for that. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 06:34:09 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Those earth-shatteringly important questions... njc 1: What is your favorite word? Mellifuous 2: What is your least favorite word? Muzak 3: What turns you on? Erm, taking the question literally: Kate Winslet in Holy Smoke 4: What turns you off? Hate-mongering tabloids, celebrity-obsession disorder, etc etc 5: What sound do you love? Babies laughing 6: What sound do you hate? Helicopters hovering - drives me around the bend 7: What is your favorite curse word? It's got to be 'fuck' 8: What profession other than yours would you like to attempt? Radio presenter, playing PROPER MUSIC to people starved of it 9: What profession would you not like to participate in? A call centre answering complaints about an organisation I didn't believe in 10: If heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates? "Don't worry, son, Cliff Richard isn't going to sing" Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:42:35 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: the economy NJC Vince said >As jobs are moving overseas to where people get paid pennies per hour, it is time to consider something a friend of mine pointed out yesterday: slavery still exists in the world.< Kate said >>This is not always so vince...i married a man who has done much of his business overseas...the wages are lower but so is the cost of living...many of the people who are sometimes considered working in 'slavery' conditions are much better off than they were before the work...in china it has changed the fate of women dramatically...there was a time when girl babies were considered expendable & as a result they were treated quite horribly...now those same girls & women have a life (literally) not to mention a livlihood, medical care, clean living quarters, heat, food, etc...sometimes companies build entire towns to house their employees...you have to look at what life was like for these folks before you decide whether giving them overseas jobs is good or bad... << Both Vince and Kate are right. Vince is right - slavery definitely exists in the world today. No doubt about it. Kate is right - living conditions are (sometimes) improved by overseas companies moving into 'cheaper' countries (I see today that Levi's are stopping production in the US). The problem with Kate's assertion is that, to misquote Beckett, 'we have gained sixpence, but at what cost?'. Naomi Klein's 'No Logo' makes it clear that poverty is increased for the majority of the people who enter the 'maquiladoras' and other sweatshops that have no contract (China for example) and/or are subject to 'hire and fire' practices which give them no permanency and therefore no pension rights and which leave them stranded when the orders run out. They have moved into the industrial areas to take advantage of the work and therefore have no recourse even to the subsistence economy that they had before. It's a very complicated picture, as I'm sure we all agree. The problem, as I see it, is that the intention of the big companies is not to create better working conditions - their aim is to reduce costs, and the shareholders only worry is higher dividends and stock prices. Neither am I convinced that Chinese (and Philipino) workers are living in 'clean living conditions', and have access to medical care. See Klein for details. And Joni makes ads for Gap!!!! Nike in Barcelona NPIMH - do you want my job - little village ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:38:43 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Now, Travelogue and the earlier work **Why do so many people feel the need to "take sides"?** I'm not sure that people are taking sides as much as we're just expressing preferences, Mike. As long as theirs respect for each others' preferences, where's the harm? Besides, where else can these kinds of issues be discussed? That's what this forum is for. Welcome to you, by the way... ** The world (well, my world) would be an infinitely poorer place without both BSN ** And since I sprung for the first release (the hatbox) of BSN, my world would be about 50 bucks richer without it! :~) All kidding aside, I'm glad that you & many others are so moved by this project. Bob NP: Hajime Chitose, "Blue" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 08:23:31 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #12 - prophetic? --- BRYAN8847@aol.com wrote: > Someone else may have mentioned this, but the "while > Muslims hold up > Washington" line in Otis and Marlena refers to an > incident in 77 or 76 where a radical > Muslim or two went into a government office in DC > and briefly took hostages > (or something along that line). Of course that > doesn't mean isn't prophetic... History repeats itself. What we don't learn from, we are condemned to repeat. There is nothing new under the sun. Everything old is new again. I'm sure there are a number of other relevant adages, cliches and quotes that fit, but no one needs to be beat over the head with it or have it rammed down his/her throat. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 05:32:09 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: PNAC NJC to anyone who is interested: frontline had an episode on the links between wolfowitz's 1992 paper and the Bush doctrine. transcript is here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/iraq/etc/script.html christian science monitor has a nice page with links to neo-con websites, publications, major documents, if you're interested in exploring their world view. http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/spheresInfluence.html the influence of a few key neo-cons on bush's security/defense policy since 9/11 is very clear. iraq and ousting sadam has been on their plate since the end of the gulf war. there's no grand nefarious plan or conspiracy. they have been working to shape and direct american policy in manner that fits with their world view. dealing with iraq has been at the top of the list for quite some time. the aftermath of 9/11 was an opportune time to reshape american security policy - and it was reshaped (emphasis on pre-emption, prevention) based largely on a neo-conservative world view. it's up to you to decide if you agree with this world view or not - to me it is alien and frightening. as i said to my husband when the war with iraq began: "I wish it was about the oil" jenny kakki wrote: > A real investigation of 9/11 is something that would give us all an idea > of whether bush responded adequately or not. There are too many > questions still unanswered. There are but why do I always feel that what you really are wishing and hoping for is to find something to take down Bush in the process? >If anyone is interested in objectively > addressing this issue, the place to start is the PNAC website & the > document called "Rebuilding America's Defences", written in September > 2000. I recall you put this up before and my reaction to it was that it was nothing more than a kind of "white paper" of ideas on addressing America's defenses and not a blueprint for future plans to deliberately invade the middle east on false pretenses. Like Buck said, there are always contigency plans for anything. It's like the Patriot Act - how many know that nearly all of it was written and in place during Clinton's administration? Ready to go as a contingency plan. (And widely protested at the time from the libertarian side of the Republicans in Congress). That's why it got implemented within days after 9/11. Speaking of those libertarians, it appears the PNAC site is sponsored or affiliated with their think tank, the Cato Institute. I like that they offer a sort of "third view" in the U.S. It's always good to warn and monitor. But I don't think the "neo-cons" were really looking for an excuse to have a war and invade the middle east just for some kind of imperialistic power. I think whatever motivations or concerns they have are based in preserving liberty and defending the country. Kakki Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 15:42:41 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: woo - hoo - what a bargain njc !!!!!!!!! hi well - its good when good things happen to good people - but its way, way better when they happen to me :-) just stopped off at a local 2nd hand shop. at just the right time - someone leaving the country had sold off a whole pile of cds - just imagine - jeff beck, johnny winter, geirge harrison, weather report, john coltrane, tom scott & la express, john mcloughlin, mahavishnu orchestra, mountain, brecker brothers, david benoit, george benson, heart, larry carlton, stanley clark, billy cobham, and the band all on sale for 19 rand (around US$2.50) !!!!!! normal price here is 200 to 250 rand!!!! i bought 32 cds :-) now where do i start.................................. ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 09:59:51 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Now I don't like pasting in entire posts, but in this case I did post Bob Muller's below. While I am flattered to be viewed as ballsy, as usual it is in the area of criticism. Ironic, since my post was intended as praise. My point being that I agree with everything you say below, Bob (except the part where you overstate my guitar playing by a wide margin, you flatterer, you). The praise being that her singing and playing (as wonderful and intoxicating as they are to me) are eclipsed by her (much rarer) compositional skills. So, to reiterate my oft-stated position for the benefit of the newbies, lest they get the wrong idea - I think Joni is the greatest "popular music" artist of the English speaking world over the latter third of the 20th century. I do not know who I would rate as #2, but nobody else comes close. By popular music, I embrace all forms that contain music and lyrics - i.e., "song"). I have not seen Love, and missed any earlier threads (though from time to time have spotted this reference before) - can you elaborate ? Bobsart **I would be inclined to think that instrument playing is her weakest area and singing her second weakest area.** Wow, that IS pretty ballsy criticism, Bob...I think that instrument playing is one of her strongest strengths, I'm in awe when I watch her play the guitar, piano or dulcimer for that matter, she appears to have a unique mastery of it all and always seems to be paving new ground. But then again, you're a guitarist (a damn good one at that) and all I play is the stereo. As for her singing, I would say that she's a marvelous vocalist but moreso when it pertains to her own songs. I think when she changes hats and becomes an interpretive vocalist of others' work, she pales a bit. That may be because as a writer she is so superior to so many others. Add "actress" to her skill sets and it might shake up your list a bit.Watch her act in the film "Love" and you may change your mind about her weaknesses. ;~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 10:48:51 -0500 From: SMC1254@aol.com Subject: joni news? Someone out there must have some Joni news! Some little crumb to peck at. I saw on Amazon.com that her Memoirs are scheduled for Sept.04., still with Crown publishing. What happened to the Allison Anders documentary? JM.com is so quiet in the news department. Help Me. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 10:53:20 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2004 #12 - prophetic? Specifically, a small group of Hanafi Muslims led by Hamaas Abdul Khaalis took 134 hostages in th B'nai B'rith headquarters, city hall, and the Islamic Center. At the time it was described by the press as the "worst domestic terrorist incident to date." I lived in DC at the time. When DJRD came out there was no question that Joni was referring to this incident. The JDML lyrics glossary has some details: http://www.jmdl.com/glossary/muslims.cfm - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of BRYAN8847@aol.com Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 1:37 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #12 - prophetic? >EVEN THOUGH "Don Juan's..." came out in '77, what I found wild about >that song was that it seemed to be talking about that incident, since >the whole DC area was literally "Held Up," due to the fear everyone >had of being shot and killed by these mysterious snipers....ANyone >else notice this or find that to be interesting? Someone else may have mentioned this, but the "while Muslims hold up Washington" line in Otis and Marlena refers to an incident in 77 or 76 where a radical Muslim or two went into a government office in DC and briefly took hostages (or something along that line). Of course that doesn't mean isn't prophetic... Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:09:33 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: joni news? > Someone out there must have some Joni news! > Some little crumb to peck at. I believe she walked her dog yesterday. I'm not positive though so don't take my word for it. Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:12:07 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides (Now) Cyrano Paz wrote: "**NOW Bob we don't say anything about your schmaltzy overwrought arrangements at Jonifests.**" I interceded, genteelly "Since I have not yet seen Bob M's reply, may I say on his behalf 'Touche' !" Having none of that, Muller retorts: Well, as my arranger Michael you'd be a fool to do so! Now me again, on behalf of Paz " Touche', my tushie - en garde !! " (puns, irony, double entendre) I've got it - we put on Cyrano at the next Jonifest, and invite Joni to play Roxane (fulfilling her dream to play the lead role as an actress). Paz plays Valvert, and Muller plays Cyrano (of course, Paz will be allowed to break Muller's nose first to add a touch of realism - a small price to pay for winning the duel and uttering love poems to Joni - no ?). Sorry, Bob - the epees have tips (or perhaps we let Roxane make that call ;-) ). I'll settle for the part of Christian, dying happy, thinking this Roxane loves me. Bobsart (Impossible -hopefully not Reoccurring - Dreamer) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:32:58 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Both Sides (Now) Cyrano njc I don't know about you but I have a hard time seeing this as jc. --- Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > Paz wrote: > "**NOW Bob we don't say anything about your > schmaltzy overwrought arrangements > at Jonifests.**" > > I interceded, genteelly > > "Since I have not yet seen Bob M's reply, may I say > on his behalf 'Touche' !" > > > Having none of that, Muller retorts: > > Well, as my arranger Michael you'd be a fool to do > so! > > > Now me again, on behalf of Paz > > " Touche', my tushie - en garde !! " > > (puns, irony, double entendre) > > > I've got it - we put on Cyrano at the next Jonifest, > and invite Joni to play > Roxane (fulfilling her dream to play the lead role > as an actress). Paz plays > Valvert, and Muller plays Cyrano (of course, Paz > will be allowed to break > Muller's nose first to add a touch of realism - a > small price to pay for winning > the duel and uttering love poems to Joni - no ?). > Sorry, Bob - the epees have > tips (or perhaps we let Roxane make that call ;-) ). > I'll settle for the part of > Christian, dying happy, thinking this Roxane loves > me. > > Bobsart (Impossible -hopefully not Reoccurring - Dreamer) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:36:54 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni news? --- SMC1254@aol.com wrote: > Someone out there must have some Joni news! > Some little crumb to peck at. I saw on Amazon.com > that her Memoirs are scheduled for Sept.04., still > with Crown publishing. > What happened to the Allison Anders documentary? > JM.com is so quiet in the news department. > Help Me. > The "Memoirs" keep showing up with some future date ascribed to them. I wouldn't be holding my breath for it or trying to order an advance copy if I were you, or you'd end up some shade on beyond blue. As to the Allison Anders thing, I'm not sure which one this was - it was either what ended up as JM: a WOHAM, or another one that got quashed by Joni herself. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I understand that there were two things going on at around the same time - - one being WOHAM and the other being the AA documentary that Joni nixed for some reason. That may have been the one that featured interviews with Bill and Muriel - if so, I'd love to see it and hope there's a bootleg copy around somewhere that some enterprising soul may get hold of and share with us. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:38:18 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: woo - hoo - what a bargain njc !!!!!!!!! --- ron wrote: > hi > > well - its good when good things happen to good > people - but its way, way > better when they happen to me :-) > > just stopped off at a local 2nd hand shop. at just > the right time - someone > leaving the country had sold off a whole pile of cds > - just imagine - jeff > beck, johnny winter, geirge harrison, weather > report, john coltrane, tom scott > & la express, john mcloughlin, mahavishnu orchestra, > mountain, brecker > brothers, david benoit, george benson, heart, larry > carlton, stanley clark, > billy cobham, and the band all on sale for 19 rand > (around US$2.50) !!!!!! > normal price here is 200 to 250 rand!!!! > > i bought 32 cds :-) now where do i > start.................................. > Right now, right here, it would be simple. It's so fecking cold outside that you wouldn't want to go out anyway. So I'd be holed up inside with plenty of good food and drink and the CD player loaded up and cranked up high. Sounds like you got quite a good cache of goodies there, Ron. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:00:29 EST From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: Re: hitler njc he was also bi polar, as my jewish friend's father pointed out to her after she was diagnosed thusly. dang...what a dad. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:58:11 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Dave Matthews, njc This is the re-occurring Dave Matthews thread. He's interviewed in this Feb 04 issue of Playboy. The cover is white with red lettering and has a picture of Jaime Pressly wearing very little indeed. Mercifully, Mr. Matthews is fully clothed and the interview starts on p.106. It is probably not on newsstands yet. All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:38:09 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Now **I have not seen Love, and missed any earlier threads (though from time to time have spotted this reference before) - can you elaborate ?** It's just a really strange little film, with Joni playing the part of Art Nouveau (from the DJRD cover) and going to a costume party. Truth be told, Joni's OK but the segment as a whole is pretty cheesy and for the most part pretty painful to watch. But the movie (a collection of 4 shorts written & directed by women) is worthwhile if only for the first few minutes where the credits are accompanied by an instrumental version of Joni's song "Love" and her semi-scatting the vocal. Pretty cool. I wouldn't have mentioned it except for the fact that I just made a copy of it for someone and when I tested it to make sure it worked I was once again taken with that intro. Bob NP: The Long Winters, "Blanket Hog" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 13:29:52 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Dave Matthews, njc --- "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > This is the re-occurring Dave Matthews thread. He's > interviewed in this Feb > 04 issue of Playboy. The cover is white with red > lettering and has a > picture of Jaime Pressly wearing very little indeed. > > Mercifully, Mr. Matthews is fully clothed and the > interview starts on p.106. > It is probably not on newsstands yet. > Mercifully for you! If he wasn't fully clothed, I might be interested. Who the hell is Jaime Pressly? Elvis' test-tube love-child by a trailer trash type that cain't spel to gud? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:19:42 -0000 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: Actor's Studio questions... (njc) Oh good, a silly quiz :) 1: What is your favorite word? Theodolite 2: What is your least favorite word? Gusset 3: What turns you on? Writing a new song 4: What turns you off? The idea that fashion is important 5: What sound do you love? Right now, anything in stereo. My right ear is blocked and I can't hear a thing though it:( 6: What sound do you hate? All the noises transmitted through the bones of my head to my right ear which are so unnaturally loud at the moment. 7: What is your favorite curse word? Blair 8: What profession other than yours would you like to attempt? President of the USA 9: What profession would you not like to participate in? Insurance 10: If heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates? I can explain everything. Martin. In London. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:57:17 -0000 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: Calm Discourse. NJC Ron was talking about why Blair chose to support Bush. I think the answer comes down to a thing often referred to in the UK, which is our 'special relationship' with the US. As far as I can figure it, what this boils down to is, we get to have more power in the world than the size and prosperity of our nation would otherwise give us, if we keep in with the US. We do a lot of business with the US too, and if we fell out with America, we would harm ourselves economically, and reduce our power in the world at the same time. Blair I think, made the wrong decision over the war, in the end for reasons not immediately connected to the war. Then had to make up something to persuade the citzens that we had to go in. With a bit of luck it will be his undoing, not that that will correct things. For the record, I personally feel that it wasn't wrong for us to go to war in Iraq, but was completely wrong to do it in defiance of the majority opinion in the UK, and equally important, to undermine the authority of the UN by ignoring it. If the US is going to be the 'policeman of the world', then like all proper police forces, it should be answerable to a higher authority - which it is not. Which brings us back to the subject Lucy was commenting on, which is having no right to vote for the US president or government, despite the fact that the result affects us all. Directly, and fundamentally. Martin. In London (51st state). > Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 22:16:41 +0200 > From: "ron" > Subject: Re: Calm Discourse. NJC > > hi > > > >>>>lucy wrote > > nervous about yet more Bush... I cannot vote him out.. but what he decides > ... > > has our leader slavering to say "count us in" and we have no way of saying > "um > > excuse me but I dont actually agree with this" > > > funny enough - at lunch today we were discussing (no - i didnt bring the > subject up) and trying to figure out *why* bl;air supported bush. > > no one could come up with any convincing answers. it seems to me blair has > pretty much destroyed his career, he stood against most of the european > countries, and he has certainly peed off a whole lot of his public. > > did he really believe he was doing the right thing? or has he lined up a job > in a defence company somewhere later? > > and if he believed he was doing the right thingg - did bush perhaps also > believe it ( nahhhhhh) > > enquiring minds (well - one at least) would love to hear any theories :-) > > > ron > np - timbuk3 - national holiday ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:00:31 -0700 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: John Guerin 1939-2004 This message from Patti Witten bounced on its way to the list - les - ---------- I haven't been following this list lately so forgive me if this is already known to all of you, but here is the link to a memorial site for John Guerin, the best drummer I have ever heard. http://johnguerin.com/ We know him from Joni's LA Express records, plus Hejira and Blue, but just check out his discography. Amazing. Patti - -- http://pattiwitten.com There are about five things to write songs about: I'm leaving you. You're leaving me. I want you. You don't want me. I believe in something. Five subjects, and twelve notes. For all that, we musicians do pretty well. - -Elvis Costello ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 14:10:20 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: joni news? I seem to remember that Allison Anders was doing a documentary on the making of Travelogue - I don't think it was connected with WOHAM. Search the keyword "Anders" in the JMDL library and there are a couple of articles. At 11:36 AM 1/10/2004 -0500, you wrote: >As to the Allison Anders thing, I'm not sure which one >this was - it was either what ended up as JM: a WOHAM, >or another one that got quashed by Joni herself. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:25:00 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: the economy NJC i can't speak for all companies of course, only what i have experienced & seen...you make a good point that there are no contracts...(come to think of it, i've never had a contract in any work i've done!) ... however the contrast between what the workers have & what they had before is extremely significant...in the cases i am speaking about the housing is clean & heated...the apartments are like college dorms...in the situations i am talking about the poverty is enormously decreased & the situation for woman is a radical change & an opportunity...i don't think you can say that all the companies only aim is to reduce costs...some employers see the value of improving the conditions of their employees (living & working) which in turn improves their productivity ( i've worked for empolyers that try to give you the bare minimum & others who are more enlightened & realize that their bottom line will improve if their employees are happy) jeff was just over there & things are changing fast...the economic base is shifting from hong kong to mainland china...cities are being built & china's economic power is growing... i am not someone who wants to bring capitalism to third world comanies i assure you...i'd rather see those countries thrive as a rural & agricultural society as i find there is much lost when that life dissappears...however i had to chance to see first hand how how things were often improved (& in this case it is significantly for women who otherwise would have little or no worth in the culture) & be open to the opposite of what i had once believed... mike > The problem with Kate's assertion is that, to misquote Beckett, 'we have gained sixpence, but at what cost?'. Naomi Klein's 'No Logo' makes it clear that poverty is increased for the majority of the people who enter the 'maquiladoras' and other sweatshops that have no contract (China for example) and/or are subject to 'hire and fire' practices which give them no permanency and therefore no pension rights and which leave them stranded when the orders run out. They have moved into the industrial areas to take advantage of the work and therefore have no recourse even to the subsistence economy that they had before. It's a very complicated picture, as I'm sure we all agree. The problem, as I see it, is that the intention of the big companies is not to create better working conditions - their aim is to reduce costs, and the shareholders only worry is higher dividends and stock prices. < ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 15:57:42 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 Sad news - I had not heard it, so thanks for sharing it Les. John was one of the few people on the planet who could claim a songwriting credit with Joni (The Hissing of Summer Lawns). Bob NP: The Bad Plus, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 13:48:03 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: PNAC NJC Thanks David and Jenny for their interpretations. That's basically the way I read it, too. I'm just not as troubled as others about the whole thing. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 16:58:21 -0500 From: vince Subject: Bush begins US slave trade NJC Kate, you make a lot of good points as always and so has the entire discussion but the slave trade is coming back to the US via G W's new immigration policy so don't worry about what goes on overseas under G W "Wealthy Texan" Bush's proposal, undocumented aliens can work in this country: 1. with no medical or any other - not any other - type of benefit (now who is that good for and can we spell "contributor$ to Bu$h?) 2. without ever having any disagreement with an employer because any disagreement means firing means deportation - all worker rights are gone - - all rights gone boom just like that 3. for US employers, who would you hire - an American citizen or an undocumented laborer? cost savings galore and a totally docile employee pool as they have no rights - bring that NAFTA on home to me baby! who needs to go to Mexico or China or Vietnam to extort money from the poor and the laboring class? now to anticipate the squawks from the Bush-ites: let's save some angry email exchanges and come to the conclusion: ok, maybe not pure slavery but indentured labor like in the 16th century ironic side benefit: since the undocumented laborers and their families will have no medical insurance, we the taxpayers get to subsidize the lack of benefits paid by business - can we spell C O R P O R A T E W E L F A R E F O R T H E R I C H - because all the uninsured visits to hospital ERs for primary care will just increase medical costs for the rest of us Have a haliburton day, everyone, Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 14:09:13 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: calm discourse -plus, persons of the year, 2002- njc Patrick attacked: > okay... fine. i'll accept that. now, don't you EVER EVER EVER FRECKING > TALK ABOUT HOW PEOPLE TREAT BUSH because if you don't know how >clinton was treated, you have no context to complain about bush-bashing. it's > unbelievably dishonest for you to complain about it if you were in a cocoon > during the clinton years. you have a huge gap in your political knowledge. What a huge giant stretch from what I wrote about regarding the Bush/Nazi video. You keep ignoring what I wrote and twisting everything around to try to attack me. Do I have to say 50 times that I simply never heard of the Clinton/Hitler comparison? The discussion was about calling people Nazis and Hitler, not about how Clinton was treated in general. Not about general Clinton or Bush bashing. It was also a discussion about the difference in individual nuts writing letters or jokes calling Clinton Hitler and the potential of a political PAC sponsoring someone's video comparing Bush to Hitler. What - is there some edict out there that I personally cannot complain about someone calling Bush a Nazi because Clinton was attacked? Sounds like you don't like democracy, Patrick. LOL >umm, oops. the three women you're talking about were the 2002 time magazine > persons of the year, see this. > http://www.time.com/time/personoftheyear/2002/ two of them were corporate > whistle-blowers, and one of them was Coleen Rowley, FBI agent whose warnings > were denied on BUSH'S WATCH!! i'm doing the all-caps and exclamation points > because you said "during Clinton" twice, and i already corrected you once. > please don't get it wrong in front of me again. that would be called lying. I know you love to call me a liar, Patrick. I guess I should be grateful you haven't yet used profanity on me here. My memory was dim as to whether there were two FBI whistleblowers on Time' sover. There is another whistleblower, a man, whose name I forget who is not mentioned in the Time article. When I have more time, I'll try to find that information. What I recall is that there were agents in the FBI Phoenix office who had reports quashed and it was at least a year or so before 9/11. My recall is that the revelations came out on Bush's watch, but the initial discounting of reports was prior to that. And I am ultimately not trying to make this a Clinton vs Bush fault thing. I just perceive that many would like to blame everything on Bush without looking at the history and chain of events. My ultimate point was that there were deficiencies in the intelligence agencies. Those problems could have many causes and it would be ridiculous to say either Clinton or Bush was responsible for them. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 14:19:14 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Bush begins US slave trade NJC Vince, Do you have cite or source for Bush's proposal that states what you have written? Thanks, Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:22:39 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 Such sad news! I'm very surprised we didn't hear of this until today, nearly a week after the fact. A musician friend in SF tells me that Joni was WILD about Mr. Guerin, that he was a very handsome man, and that they were romantically linked for some time. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 14:21:19 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: NJC/ the economy Vince wrote: > >>The economy is the best, as far as indicators, it has been in decades. > >> > Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. Well, whatever, and excuse me for stating what has been widely written and stated in the media. I forget that the only people who know anything are a few here on the JMDL! ;-) > As jobs are moving overseas to where people get paid pennies per hour, > it is time to consider something a friend of mine pointed out > yesterday: slavery still exists in the world. And all of us (and us > includes me very much) with mutual funds or other Wall Street > investments are supporting it and seeking to profit from it. It is a > hard truth, but truth it is. I don't disagree with that. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 14:29:34 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Bush begins US slave trade NJC I've been there in many ways...as a single parent in a time when jobs were scarce in this town I allowed myself to be exploited by a boss who randomly gave medical & other benefits to some employees & not to others...until a new boss came in & saw the unfairness if not the illegalness of this...some people are ethical even if it means they take the heat as this boss did eventually (from his superiors)...i know what its like to live in fear of loosing your job & living on the edge of homelessness & the kind of shame that comes as a result...i know what it is like to hear offhand subtle remarks that can keep you in a constant state of worry & stress...the good news is that somehow I survived & thrived & it all worked out for me...but I'm college educated & a citizen so its hardly the same situation as illegal immigrants who may not even speak english... I don't know all the details of this policy so probably shouldn't comment but in general I'm all for providing people who are already here (even if its illegally) with jobs & education & a chance to become citizens... 'give me your tired your poor' etc... I agree the medical situation in this country is a huge concern for those without benefits...even people with insurance are having a hard time due to the limits on what is covered & the costs of keeping coverage (I speak as someone who is self insured)... >1. with no medical or any other - not any other - type of benefit (now who is that good for and can we spell "contributor$ to Bu$h?) 2. without ever having any disagreement with an employer because any disagreement means firing means deportation - all worker rights are gone - - all rights gone boom just like that 3. for US employers, who would you hire - an American citizen or an undocumented laborer? cost savings galore and a totally docile employee pool as they have no rights - bring that NAFTA on home to me baby! who needs to go to Mexico or China or Vietnam to extort money from the poor and the laboring class?< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 22:32:53 -0000 From: "amelio747" Subject: Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 Yes really sad. THOSL is my favourite album so I really appreciate him as a musician. I remember seeing the picture of him on WOHAM and thinking he was younger than Joni. Very good looking! NP: In France... Joni * * * * * * Stephen T "I get the urge for going But I never seem to go" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 10:22 PM Subject: Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 > Such sad news! I'm very surprised we didn't hear of this until today, > nearly a week after the fact. > > A musician friend in SF tells me that Joni was WILD about Mr. Guerin, that he > was a very handsome man, and that they were romantically linked for some time. > Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 14:44:54 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Orts Subject: Howdy, again. It's probably been over two years since I've been on the JMDL. Time flies when you're in grad school. When last I appeared here, I'd just moved to Chicago--even got help from woefully neglected JMDLers (I'd always intended to have them over for dinner and then school started and then I never really set up that apartment . . . blah blah blah excuses excuses I'm really just a bad person . . . )--and now I'm back in my home state of Texas, Houston this time. (Longtimers might remember me as being in Austin.) I'm sure I've missed all the discussion over Travelogue and whatnot, but just to have a little Joni content in this re-intro post, I have to say that I enjoyed Travelogue immensely. In one or two cases, I felt she made some questionable choices for orchestration, but I have to say the arrangement on Dawntreader was an eye opener. I don't think I'd ever really paid much attention to it until I heard it on Travelogue. Now it's moved up to one of my favorite Joni songs. It translated very nicely to the orchestra setting. And that's enough for now. Just wanted to re-connect. I'll be around until I get overwhelmed by posts again. :) - -Neil ===== Neil Ellis Orts 713-838-1787 Houston, TX keep up with my creative endeavors--join my newsletter list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/neonews ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 23:39:54 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 Oh, this really is sad news. He played on the albums that, for me, make up Joni's sweet spot: C&S, Hissing, Hejira and DJRD. When I get the chance to specify what sort of drummer I'd like to play with, it's Hissing, Hejira and DJRD I point to as an example. Damn. - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #14 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)