From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #8 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, January 8 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 008 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni in fiction- television NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] RE: The Dream Sequence, NJC/ now james lipton question ["Lori Fye" ] Dylan's Singing SJC ["Richard Flynn" ] NJC Bernard Pivot's questions ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: an update on my DVD player (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] shake your fists at lightning [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #6 - politics NJC [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: Joni in fiction- television NJC ["Suze Cameron" ] calm discourse request NJC [vince ] Re: Hitler comparison - njc ["kakki" ] Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC ["kakki" ] Re: Dylan's Singing SJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Moveon org njc ["kakki" ] Re: Moveon org njc ["kakki" ] Re: shake your fists at lightning [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: calm discourse request NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: Joni in fiction- television NJC ["mackoliver" ] Re: calm discourse request NJC [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: calm discourse request NJC ["kakki" ] Today in History: January 8 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: January 8 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:08:53 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Joni in fiction- television NJC I marked this NJC, since Joni's version of "Troubled Man" was played on a soap (YES, I'VE WATCH *A STORY* SINCE I WAS 10 YRS. OLD SO SHUT THE F*** UP! LOL).....On "As the World Turns" today, they played "Troubled Man" as one of the character's went to a bar, where the girl he got pregnant (but doesn't know it) was there. She tricked another guy into thinking it was his and married him.................that's good enough reason to mark this post NJC, but it was still good to hear Joni on TV. Murphy.......get this in your JMDL site or I'll start sending you frizbees :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 15:11:00 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: RE: The Dream Sequence, NJC/ now james lipton question Buck wrote: "One is allowed to have a PERSONAL opinion in the military, and one is free to express that opinion. What *isn't* permitted is to go "on the record" and publicly express dissent." Kate replied: > Thanks for your reply Buck...this policy makes a lot of sense to > me...i wonder if it is still the same now...the usa culture has > changed much since then so I imagine the military culture has too... Not as much as you'd think. The policy Buck mentioned is still on the books (and imo it should be). The military is VERY S - L - O - W to change much of anything that it thinks is "working" (for example, its position on gays -- and there are thousands on active duty and reserve status -- but let's not get into THAT). As an interesting aside, there are all kinds of regulations that the military ARBITRARILY enforces. For instance, committing adultery is a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice but it is rarely prosecuted. During my 10+ years in the USAF, I did know one guy who was kicked out for it, but generally the attitude is: "I'm not married, I'm TDY." (TDY = temporary duty away from one's usual post or base) The military typically turns a blind eye to wayward spouses. Similarly, a good friend of mine who was an officer and had a sky-high top secret clearance is a lesbian who didn't take great pains to hide her personal life. She was very active in local gay politics as well. You've gotta believe that if she had the security clearance that I know she had, she was investigated to the max and "they" knew everything there was to know about her. Nonetheless, she was never harassed about her lesbianism and she retired with full honors and pay -- because her brain is an amazing organ and the Air Force needed her. Later ... Lori ~ http://www.aidsmarathon.com/participant.asp?runner=DCNO-3152&year=2003 http://lrfye.lunarpages.com/donorform.pdf ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:35:48 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni Covering --- Norman Pennington wrote: > Dylan's voice (or lack of same) is a common obstacle > to "getting into" the > man's music, and I admit, his "unique" vocalizations > take some getting used > to. Ya either like/love him, or ya don't. I > personally love him. Is it not interesting that so many people who cover Dylan's stuff end up "doing Dylan" on them? Most of his melodies are fairly simple, but there are, in fact, a few notes in them! Is it because his style of talk/singing is so engrained in us that everyone feels they have to do this? I never cared for the man's voice at all and yet - I prefer his singing (if you can call it that, LOL) his own material to anyone else's covering them, despite the fact that I don't care for his voice (how does that work, anyway? I've grown accustomed to him, I guess, and like him more now than I ever did when I was young, although somewhere in this house is a songbook of Dylan stuff that I've had since I was about 14 or so, so he was always kind of there somehow). I do like Joan Baez's version of "Sad-eyed lady of the lowlands", but am not crazy about her covers of a lot of Dylan's other stuff (Baez is like that - I love some of her stuff and can't stand her on other stuff.) Haven't heard Joni singing "Baby Blue" yet. Was going to break down and buy the Geffen thing when our dollar was up and so the price of the thing came down, but was too broke at the time, and then the dollar went back down and the price back up, so I just decided, feckit anyway, I don't want it badly enough! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:31:59 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Dylan's Singing SJC I don't understand you all. As Dylan says in _Don't Look Back_, he's a better singer than Caruso and he can hold his breath longer, too. Seriously, while he has his less than stellar moments, he's a great singer--not by conventional measures: his instrument is limited (and more limited with age, but so is Joni's) but his singing is original, expressive, and smart. And unlike Joni on BSN, he knows about phrasing. I'll here Joni's "Baby Blue" someday, but I won'r pay the US equivalent of 28 quid for that Geffen box. Happy New Year! Richard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:52:48 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: NJC Bernard Pivot's questions > Kate asked: > > > There is an idea for a new thread! What would profession would you most > > like to pursue, least like to pursue? > mmmmmm... this is fun! most: opera prima donna least: the person that gets the orders ready at the starbucks counter now... if heaven exists, what would you like to hear god say when you arrive at the pearly gates? my answer: all of your friends made it too. this is bernard pivot's complete questionnaire: 1: What is your favorite word? 2: What is your least favorite word? 3: What turns you on? 4: What turns you off? 5: What sound do you love? 6: What sound do you hate? 7: What is your favorite curse word? 8: What profession other than yours would you like to attempt? 9: What profession would you not like to participate in? 10: If heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates? wally ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:59:09 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: an update on my DVD player (NJC) <> Yup! A brilliant movie!! Glad you finally got your player to work, Kenny! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 20:00:41 -0500 (EST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: shake your fists at lightning I'm sure someone must have mentioned this on the list before, but I only heard it recently. Apparently, Beethoven was on his death bed, literally, surrounded by a few friends. Just before he died, there was a crack of thunder. Upon hearing it, Ludwig shook his fist at the sky, then died. "You've got to shake your fists at lightning now..." I'm not sure what the forest fire reference is to. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:27:03 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #6 - politics NJC "But Gore endorsed Dean, not Clark", you might complain. "Why not honor Gore by voting for Dean?" I would have been happy to honor Gore, until he endorsed Dean. Now I think he's been smoking some of that weed that Albert Jr. got busted for possessing a few weeks ago. Same for Bill Bradley. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:45:00 -0500 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: Re: Joni in fiction- television NJC I never watched a soap opera in my life until it was mutually decided that I would stay at home with our daughter. For some reason I was drawn to As the World Turns. All my friends were watching the Young and the Restless, which came on before this, but that show bored me. So, now in hindsight I wonder why I enjoyed As the World Turns so much. Was it Marisa Tomei? Was it Meg Ryan? No, then maybe it was Juianne Moore in a role as identical twins? Or how about Ming-Na, who first won attention with her critically acclaimed performance as June in Wayne Wang's feature film The Joy Luck Club, and who now plays attending physician Jing-Mei Chen? She was the first Asian American to land a leading part in a day time drama. O.k. I have said my peace regarding As the World Turns. How scary that I am so passionate about a soap where none of the above people star and that I no longer watch!!!!! Suze ____________________________________________________________ Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 22:17:08 -0500 From: vince Subject: calm discourse request NJC As an actual politician (chair of the county party and a long time party activist) I am curious in the way of really wanting to know out of curiosity, to learn, who are the candidate(s) of the 9 that you prefer and why - closest to your views or the one most likely to beat Bush? This is not asking to have a fight. I really am just trying to understand what people are thinking these days. I am also curious as to the thinking of anyone unmoved by any of the candidates, and those undecided about November. I guess I am not so curious as to the Bush people but also welcome their comments of course. You have a uncontested primary season and you will vote for your guy. Please feel free to comment. I am trying to get the pulse of the committed and the undecided and the unmoved. Lets be up front - nothing will get me to vote for Bush. Nothing will get will get some of you to vote for a democrat. Ok. We love each other anyway. I am asking for people to say what they are thinking without attack but simply to inform and educate each other as to our thinking, not to attack or attempt to convert, or launching into campaign speeches. I do not need a Bush is an asshole comment nor do the Bush people, to overstate my example, nor a [Democrat] is a terrorist coddler is not needed either. I am just really interested in why people feel a certain way, or if they are unmoved by it all, why. I think we can discuss our differing perspectives without attack or rancor; for each of us to know what others are thinking only enlightens us. Come October we can bash the other side but lets pretend we are in a classy restaurant just chitchatting with people whose opinions are valued and matter even when they differ from our own so we don't preach at each other just talk. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:25:18 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Hitler comparison - njc Hey Jerry, This is really the first time I've heard of a Clinton/Hitler comparison and according to your cites this was a letter to an editor of a newspaper from one person, not a whole political PAC (moveon.org). I've heard the Republican "right wing"/Fascist comparison since the 60s. It's an old staple! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:27:05 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC > Lori, > who knows that she and Buck are really Libertarians Yay!! Me, three! ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 22:31:24 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Dylan's Singing SJC --- Richard Flynn wrote: > I don't understand you all. As Dylan says in _Don't > Look Back_, he's a > better singer than Caruso and he can hold his breath > longer, too. Well, I think maybe he held it a bit TOOOO long ;-) > Seriously, while he has his less than stellar > moments, he's a great > singer--not by conventional measures: his instrument > is limited (and more > limited with age, but so is Joni's) but his singing > is original, expressive, > and smart. And unlike Joni on BSN, he knows about > phrasing. That is very true not just of Dylan but of a whole lot of singers (vocalists?) who don't have pretty voices, but who have something else - expression, emotion, a sense of timing and phrasing, a way with words. I think as I move further into Old Fartdom, this all becomes much clearer to me (or maybe I'm just losing my hearing, heeheehee.) > I'll here Joni's "Baby Blue" someday, but I won'r > pay the US equivalent of > 28 quid for that Geffen box. Neither will I. I'm waiting for a sale. Or to buy a used copy. The damn thing's probably out of print (do they call it out of *print* when it's a recording? never mind) now anyway. I've never seen it in any store here in Toronto, (not that I've looked that hard and if something doesn't jump out and grab me, it doesn't exist, and I'm darned if I'm going to ask a clerk) but you can order it off websites - however, it's not something they'll ship next day, so they're probably getting it from the US now anyway. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:35:37 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Moveon org njc > Lori, buck & kakki, somehow I missed where this quote was from...ie who > equated these two entities...was it in one of the videos? > > > 6 million people systematically murdered = Republicans?< Um, no. 6 million people were systematically murdered by the Nazis. Many on the left for years have equated Republicans with the Nazis and Bush with Hitler so people think they are evil, I guess. Um, Republicans or Bush have never done any of the things the Nazis did nor do they stand for them in any way. In fact, it seems these days that Republicans are some of Israel's only defenders in that they don't want the Jewish people in Israel obliterated by their enemies in the mideast. So that is why Republicans take offense to the Nazi/fascist smears coming from people on the left. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:38:07 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Moveon org njc Ron wrote: > (who has a totally illogical and unfounded loathing of dubya & feels sick > every time he sees him... but still says the above totally tongue in cheek & > would support to his dying day other peoples right to love dubya) You can feel whatever way you want about him. And for the record I don't "love" him - I'm just not consumed with irrational hate for him and it's outrageous to compare him to Hitler. I have never "loved" any politician and never will! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:19:06 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: shake your fists at lightning In a message dated 1/7/2004 8:08:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, anne@sandstrom.com writes: Apparently, Beethoven was on his death bed, literally, surrounded by a few friends. Just before he died, there was a crack of thunder. Upon hearing it, Ludwig shook his fist at the sky, then died. "You've got to shake your fists at lightning now..." I'm not sure what the forest fire reference is to. Thanks for sharing that, Anne! I had not heard this before and it's just another spectacular example of the way Joni can express an entire vignette of information with just a few words. Think how most other writers might take an entire song to tell that Beethoven deathbed story. And Joni tosses it off in a line in a verse in a song about something so much more encompassing! She's criticized for being verbose, but when you consider the vast amount of information she conveys, there really aren't that many words. Am I making sense? ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:22:45 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: calm discourse request NJC vince wrote: > I am also curious as to the thinking of anyone unmoved by any of the > candidates, and those undecided about November. I'm not so much moved or unmoved, just pessimistic. I don't think the Dems can beat Bush. I hope I am wrong. Kucinich is so refreshing but the poor guy doesn't have a chance. The last presidential election and the Replican coop in Sacramento have really made it clear that the voters are voting for image, not substance. Bush with his laid-back aw-shucks attitude trumped Gore's nervous substitute teacher routine. And I feel certain that the media will be manipulated into a favorable position by the GOP, who are untouchable when it comes to playing events and public perception like a Stradivarious. General Clark? Not sure I trust him, presenting himself as antiwar after knowingly dropping bombs on civilians in Bosnia under Clinton. This according to Robert Fisk. Dean? Dunno. The Democrats' problem is that they feel they must stay in the middle, so they lose the left. If they go left, they lose the middle. The Bush strategy has been much more effective; lie about everything. By the time they catch on, there is a new story, new war, etc. Why the people buy it is the puzzling thing. Bush has gutted the economy and changed the world's post 9-11 view of America from innocent victim to neighborhood bully. We are more a target than ever, and our kids' kids' kids' will be paying for the financial windfalls Bush has awarded his friends. On the bright side, we have Iraq, the 51st state, with the second largest oil reserve on Earth. I guess that will keep our SUVs running for another 30 or 40 years while we warm up the planet...Ugh...sorry for rambling...if the Dems are smart, they will focus entirely on the economy, since that is seemingly the only issue that voters feel passionate about. RR This just in: [Accompanied by a photo of old, grinning white guys] **FILE** As members of congress look on, President Bush signs the Partial Birth Abortion Act of 2003 at the Ronald Reagan Building and International Trade Center Nov. 5, 2003 in Washington. Standing behind Bush are from left, House Speaker Dennis Hastert of Illinois, Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., Rep. James Oberstar, D-Minn., Sen. Mike DeWine, R-Ohio. (AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:52:32 -0600 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Re: Joni in fiction- television NJC Suze, loved your email. My family watched atwt for all of my growing up years and there is a special something about the show. Oakdale. Lisa, Kim, Nancy, Bob. Always will be special to me. And it is very interesting how that particular program has turned out so many movie stars. The original Margo was a killer. Subsequent players haven't measured up. And the Joy Luck Club. Damn. Damn. Damn. What a flick. mack np: missy-caravan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 22:21:56 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: calm discourse request NJC Vince wrote: > I guess I am not so curious as to the Bush people but also welcome their > comments of course. You have a uncontested primary season and you will > vote for your guy. Please feel free to comment. I am trying to get the > pulse of the committed and the undecided and the unmoved. It is an interesting and curious race regardless of who anyone is going to vote for. I can't ever recall 9 Democrats running in a pack against each other for the nomination. I could critique where I think some of them have mis-stepped and blown their chances to emerge as a strong candidate against Bush but will refrain. Believe it or not, some Republicans I talk to and hear from are actually lamenting that there seems to be such a lack of a strong "loyal opposition" anymore. It's ideally takes everyone to make the world go round. I think some who oppose Bush have read the tea leaves all wrong. They toss off his support as people being "brainwashed" and so on. They really can't see that people independently have had the same stances on issues as Bush long before he was ever in politics. They have minimalized the terrorism threat to the U.S.and have gone so far as to call it all lies or "all about oil", when there are so many people in the U.S. who, maybe because of where they work or what they do or what they have personally experienced, know that the threat is terribly real. Those people who know it is real, know it can no longer be ignored or "talked out" or handled by the U.N. Most people are going to vote for those who are going to at least try to protect them and who take the threat seriously. What good are any other issues if a couple major cities get taken out? The economy is the best, as far as indicators, it has been in decades. The tax cuts worked and I've made up all the losses in my retirement account from the past three years in the past six months. Yes, Bush has spent money like a drunken sailor, too, but it is estimated that half of the deficit can be made up in a year if the economy stays on the upswing. Advice to the 9 - stop fighting and start coming up with real answers and solutions. Funny to say this - but if I had to vote for a Democrat it would be Lieberman, because he does acknowledge the threat and has been consistent in his positions all along. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 02:09:51 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: calm discourse request NJC The economy is the best, as far as indicators, it has been in decades. Kakki - just one response (for now) to your post. The rate of economic growth in recent months has been the highest in 20 years (according to several indicators, as you mentioned). That does not mean the overall economic conditions, and certainly the employment/unemployment/underemployment situation, are at optimal peaks. They're not. And the Bush administration has no long-term vision for economic vitality (unless you consider endless benefits for the upper classes and record deficits to be an economic plan). I might respond to your comments on terrorism/security later. Respectfully, Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:25:51 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: calm discourse request NJC Bryan wrote: >That does not mean the overall economic conditions, and certainly the >employment/unemployment/underemployment situation, are at optimal peaks. >They're not. I'm no economist but with the indicators being so strong, it will naturally pull up the employment sector, though there will be some lag time. >And the Bush administration has no long-term vision for economic vitality (unless >you consider endless benefits for the upper classes and record deficits to be an >economic plan). What benefits for upper classes? The tax cuts helped everyone and part of his tax plan eliminated taxes for low income people. >I might respond to your comments on terrorism/security later. That sounds ominous ;-) I hope you are not going to tell me that it's all a lie. I know it's all real and has been real for over 20 years. I know it from personal experience. It greatly upsets me that some minimize it and I wish there were some way to convince them otherwise. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 02:29:18 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: January 8 1968: Joni performs at the Club 47 in Cambridge, Massachusetts. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 02:29:18 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: January 8 On January 8 the following article was published: 1969: "Joni pleases New York critic" - Saskatoon StarPhoenix (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=772 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #8 *************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)