From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #7 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, January 7 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 007 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Moveon org njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Moveon org njc ["kakki" ] Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] The Dream Sequence, NJC ["mike pritchard" ] RE: Moveon org njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni Covering [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Gisele Infomercial NJC ["Barbara L" ] RE: Joni, will you come to the fest? [Steve Polifka ] Joni statue [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Moveon org njc ["Norman Pennington" ] Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC ["Norman Pennington" ] Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Joni Covering ["Norman Pennington" ] Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC ["Norman Pennington" ] Re: Joni Covering (NJC) ["Norman Pennington" ] Re: Moveon org njc ["Norman Pennington" ] Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC [Emiliano ] Re: Moveon org njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC ["Lori Fye" ] RE: The Dream Sequence, NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC ["Norman Pennington" ] Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC/ now james lipton question ["Norman Penningto] RE: Moveon org njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC ["ron" ] Re: Moveon org njc ["ron" ] Brooke Fraser - NJC [hell@ihug.co.nz] Re: Joni statue ["Happy The Man" ] amazing mary grace an update and reminder (mgval) [magsnbrei Subject: RE: Moveon org njc I have read nothing from Moveon that is claiming any of the things you state they are claiming in your post below...if you want to read what they ARE claiming go to this site which I posted previously: http://moveonvoterfund.org/smear/release.html I was able to watch about 80 ads over the past week or so...i never saw the ones that are part of this controversy...the contest was open to all people & so it is no surprise that 2 of the 1,000 entries posted expressed an extreme sentiment...but they weren't voted into the final 15 by the members who watched them...more importantly, they don't represent the sentiments of the 'left' anymore than those who are on the extreme 'right' represent all republicans... >Ah geez, Kate. The projection of moveon.org's own wrongdoing onto the victims in this case has gone beyond the pale. The potential ads were up on their site - someone had to put them there and keep them there - until some people were outraged by them. They can't deny their site hosted these ads. They can't claim they are being smeared when people report the truthful fact that they hosted those ads. And moveon screaming that their freedom of speech is being silenced. Why don't some people understand freedom of speech is for everyone and there is no constitutional guarantee that people must listen quietly, without objection, to such hate speech? And it wasn't the Republican party who first condemned them. It was Rabbi Hier from the Simon Wiesenthal Center who first loudly raised the protest against them. Lots of people are sick and fed up with the left equating Bush with Hitler and Republicans with Nazis and they are speaking out against it. It totally trivializes the terrible reality of Hitler and the Nazi's evil deeds. 6 million people systematically murdered = Republicans? Off the chart. Kakki< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:55:08 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Moveon org njc > I have read nothing from Moveon that is claiming any of the things you > state they are claiming in your post below...if you want to read what > they ARE claiming go to this site which I posted previously: > http://moveonvoterfund.org/smear/release.html Here's what they are claiming from your link: "The Republican National Committee and its chairman have falsely accused MoveOn.org of sponsoring ads on its website which compare President Bush to Adolf Hitler. The claim is deliberately and maliciously misleading." How have they been falsely accused of sponsoring the ads when they go on to admit: "We do not support the sentiment expressed in the two Hitler submissions. They were voted down by our members and the public, who reviewed the ads and submitted nearly 3 million critiques in the process of choosing the 15 finalist entries." See? They were up on their website long enough to be voted on! They weren't put in there briefly by some hackers. Did you receive their email to their supporters where they state: "Obviously, MoveOn.org and its 1.7 million members are now on the right-wing radar. They are going to do everything they can do to silence us, and we simply won't let it happen. Smear tactics and campaigns of misinformation have no place in American democracy." Turning it all around on the victim, claiming they are being silenced and smeared, simply because they were called on it for a change. And the Bush/Republican Nazi Fascist SMEARS have been emanating from the left for a long time now. Michael Moore and Janeane Garofalo, two of the judges for the moveon ads, have delighted in ranting the Bush/Nazi/Fascist line every chance they get in print and in the media. George Soros, the billionaire who is heavily funding moveon.org has also made the charge. See here http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1083165,00.html They are caught and people are no longer silently tolerating them. They should have just apologized, without denial and equivocation, and "moved on." Kakki > > I was able to watch about 80 ads over the past week or so...i never saw > the ones that are part of this controversy...the contest was open to all > people & so it is no surprise that 2 of the 1,000 entries posted > expressed an extreme sentiment...but they weren't voted into the final > 15 by the members who watched them...more importantly, they don't > represent the sentiments of the 'left' anymore than those who are on the > extreme 'right' represent all republicans... > > > >Ah geez, Kate. The projection of moveon.org's own wrongdoing onto the > victims in this case has gone beyond the pale. The potential ads were > up on their site - someone had to put them there and keep them there - > until some people were outraged by them. They can't deny their site > hosted these ads. They can't claim they are being smeared when people > report the truthful fact that they hosted those ads. And moveon > screaming that their freedom of speech is being silenced. Why don't > some people understand freedom of speech is for everyone and there is no > constitutional guarantee that people must listen quietly, without > objection, to such hate speech? And it wasn't the Republican party who > first condemned them. It was Rabbi Hier from the Simon Wiesenthal > Center who first loudly raised the protest against them. Lots of people > are sick and fed up with the left equating Bush with Hitler and > Republicans with Nazis and they are speaking out against it. It totally > trivializes the terrible reality of Hitler and the Nazi's evil deeds. 6 > million people systematically murdered = Republicans? Off the chart. > > Kakki< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 01:16:49 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC Buck >The buzz I hear from my boys, their friends, peers, superiors, and subordinates is Dubya has revitalized the military and improved morale by an order of magnitude.< I know folks in the military who say the buzz is exactly the opposite where they are...many are very upset... Buck >Rumsfeld, while having detractors among the senior leadership whose ox would be gored by transformation, is viewed as a "straight-shooter" by the rank and file...and is both respected and loved. He is doing important work and has a vision for a 21st Century military.< You are right he has had this vision for many years, prior to 9/11... ( from http://www.newamericancentury.org): "it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire" "transform US forces " "fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theatre wars" "the process.is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event- like a new Pearl Harbor." "to increase defense spending significantly" "in time the art of warfare on air, land, and sea, will be vastly different than it is today, and combat will take place in new dimensions: in space, cyber-space, and perhaps the world of microbes." "advanced forms of biological warfare that can target specific genotypes (that) may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool" " skin-patch pharmaceuticals (to) help regulate fears, focus concentration and enhance endurance and strength". Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 01:30:46 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC Lori >I can understand Buck's comment about having seen a military base from no closer than the freeway.< I don't know...if I understand buck's comment the way he intended it, it seems a bit like me telling ya'll that you can't have an opinion about joni's music unless you've been on stage performing a song you wrote yourself... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:50:42 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: The Dream Sequence, NJC >>President Clark ...would make America beloved again, and make sure the military is not used for frivolous or corporate ends.<< I admire a person who isn't afraid of a challenge, and this is one hell of a challenge, but seriously, do you 'Americans' (USonians as Lawrence Grossberg says) want your country to be 'beloved' (again?)? >>... and honoring Gore by putting his great invention, the internet, to great use as a political and democratic tool.<< As kakki says >>Is this humor or does whoever really believe Gore invented the internet?!<< I think the only person who believes this is Gore himself mike in barcelona np - brubeck - blue rondo a la turk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 01:55:22 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Moveon org njc The moveon org did not sponsor the ads...it was a contest...i guess depending on what side of the political fence you sit on, sometimes it's a smear campaign, sometimes it's not...enough from me...i'm movin on now...lol... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 07:45:56 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Covering **Or are there songs from other artists that you think would merit our joan's attention?** Oh, maybe only about a jillion million that IMMEDIATELY come to mind! Of course, Joni could pick any number of great songs from contemporary writers like Randy Newman, Paul Simon, Tom Waits, Lucinda Williams, a very long list of fine writers. The reason that 'How Do You Stop' worked so well is that we weren't familiar with it. I guess that some of us had heard James Brown's recording, but how many of us? I would guess not many. So Joni, at least in my mind, made that song her own. In comparison, the songs she did on BSN (even her own) had been done to death and that's probably the biggest reason why that project did not work at all. I can come up with a dozen "songs I'd really like to hear Joni record", that will take some thought. But a good discussion topic any way you slice it. Bob NP: Death Cab For Cutie, "Lowell, MA" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 13:51:40 +0000 From: "Barbara L" Subject: RE: Gisele Infomercial NJC I have to agree. I was lucky enough to purchase her CD at the fest. She is sooooo fecking great it is scary!!! barbara _________________________________________________________________ Get reliable dial-up Internet access now with our limited-time introductory offer. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 08:16:54 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: RE: Joni, will you come to the fest? Like I said before, offer her cigarettes!!! (lol) Steve, dreaming of Joni in a smoke filled venue... ;-P At 10:39 PM 1/6/2004 -0500, Catherine McKay wrote: > --- michael o'malley wrote: > >> I do think Joni should be sent a straightforward >> invitation to our fests, but >> we can only respect her decision to accept or >> decline - no explanation >> necessary. I think that ``scheming`` is definitely >> the wrong approach. My two >> cents. > >I think they were joking (I hope) but I agree with >your approach. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. > >Joni, please come to Jonifest this year. We promise we >won't fawn (OK, we promise we'll try not to?) and I >think you'll love it. > > >===== >Catherine >Toronto >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- >We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction > > > > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:23:39 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni covering Less wrote; I was playing the re-mastered NRH into work this morning and eventually got to listen to Joni's take on Dylan's 'it's all over now, baby blue'. I think it's just great. It alone is worth the 28 quid I paid amazon for this set. I sat in the parking lot at work and played the damned thing six times straight. I think she nails it beautifully. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - --------------------------------------------- I was just floored by her take on this song as well and posted on it early on and the more I listen to her doing it I started to wonder could he have written this song about her. It all kind of fits as to the vagabond at the door is wearing those same clothes you once wore and painting fancy pictures on your sheets (the moon in the window picture left by Brad) and Chuck wearing those old conservative clothing like Joni did early on, and it was her decorating with old antiques and fancy Persian rugs that were moving under her when they both walked out telling her It's now all behind her take what you can from these experiences and move on cause It's all over now Baby Blue. His reference to blue is always kind of her theme back then. So does anyone know when he wrote that song and if my rhetoric has any substance? Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 15:47:01 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: Joni covering Hi, Mingus! Your insight about this song and its connections with Joni's story are very interesting. However, I'd like to say that It's All Over Now, Baby Blue, even if I don't know for sure when Dylan actually wrote it, it features in his 1965 album: "Bringing it all back home", so probably it's from a date prior to their meeting. Anyway, it's very clear by your post that Joni felt like this song was written about her, ie: talking about her (you know what I mean) Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano NP: Love Minus Zero/No limit, Bob Dylan Mingus says: > I was just floored by her take on this song as well and posted on it early > on and the more I listen to her doing it I started to wonder could he have > written this song about her. It all kind of fits as to the vagabond at the door is > wearing those same clothes you once wore and painting fancy pictures on your > sheets (the moon in the window picture left by Brad) and Chuck wearing those > old conservative clothing like Joni did early on, and it was her decorating > with old antiques and fancy Persian rugs that were moving under her when they > both walked out telling her It's now all behind her take what you can from these > experiences and move on cause It's all over now Baby Blue. His reference to > blue is always kind of her theme back then. So does anyone know when he wrote > that song and if my rhetoric has any substance? > > Peace > Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:18:04 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Joni statue The generous Rick from LA asked: <> Since I donated money for this project, I recently (2 or 3 times over the last 2 months) e-mailed the person that was heading this project to see where it was going, if anywhere at all. To this date, she *still* has not answered any of my e-mails, even though when I donated she stated that she would welcome any and all inquiries as to how the project was going. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:08:34 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Moveon org njc kakki commented in her inimitable way: > Lots of people are sick and fed up with the left equating Bush with Hitler > and Republicans with Nazis and they are speaking out against it. It totally > trivializes the terrible reality of Hitler and the Nazi's evil deeds. 6 > million people systematically murdered = Republicans? Off the chart. > > Kakki Hear, hear!!! Buck, who occasionally smacks of un/intolerance ;-) NP: C-SPAN ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:14:31 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC Lori Fye stood up against the flow and stated: > Emiliano wrote: > > > Hi, Buck! > > I think your first sentence (from the ones I've excerpted) is enough. > > The other two: are de trop, really they stink of untolerance. > > Not that Buck needs me to stick up for him, but I've known him since > 1977 and so I'm going to say this anyway: Buck is truly one of the > most tolerant people I know. Otherwise, we wouldn't have the enduring > friendship that we have. Thank you, Ma'am! You know I love you to death! > > As for voting in the November election, I will vote for damn near > ANYONE but Bush, unless Cheney is running. Does this mean you'd vote for CHENEY? Good girl!! Buck...contemplating a Bush landslide. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:44:05 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC Kate sez: > Buck >The buzz I hear from my boys, their friends, peers, superiors, and > subordinates is Dubya has revitalized the military and improved morale > by an order of magnitude.< > > I know folks in the military who say the buzz is exactly the opposite > where they are...many are very upset... As I inferred in my original post ("Democrats, Libertarians, Greens," et al), the military is a diverse community with widely varying points of view, just like US society as a whole. My _anecdotal_ experience (clarification here) is the large majority of military folks believe Dubya and Rumsfeld have had a positive impact. Your milage may vary... ;-) > Buck >Rumsfeld, while having detractors among the senior leadership > whose ox would be gored by transformation, is viewed as a > "straight-shooter" by the rank and file...and is both respected and > loved. He is doing important work and has a vision for a 21st Century > military.< > > You are right he has had this vision for many years, prior to 9/11... > ( from http://www.newamericancentury.org): > Kate, this link takes me to the New American Century splash page...do you have a more specific link from whence you obtained your quotes? I'd like to read this. Best Regards, bp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:54:55 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC Kate sez: > > I don't know...if I understand buck's comment the way he intended it, it > seems a bit like me telling ya'll that you can't have an opinion about > joni's music unless you've been on stage performing a song you wrote > yourself... > I was railing against the generalizations made about the military in the original post (by Laura?...I'm not familiar with everyone's e-mail addresses at this point...but I'll get there), e.g.,: "It is stupid to automatically associate the military with Republicans, as so many seem to do. Republicans suck at it." & the military's "corporate masters." My point is/was something on the order of "Walk a mile in their shoes." Please don't generalize unless you've BEEN there. It isn't "stupid" to associate the military with Republicans, in my experience, and there are no "corporate masters." Statements such as these reveal an ignorance of how the miltary actually works and are mildly inflammatory. Best Regards, Buck ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:59:19 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Hitler comparison - njc Kakki stated: Ah geez, Kate. The projection of moveon.org's own wrongdoing onto the victims in this case has gone beyond the pale. The potential ads were up on their site - someone had to put them there and keep them there - until some people were outraged by them. They can't deny their site hosted these ads. They can't claim they are being smeared when people report the truthful fact that they hosted those ads. And moveon screaming that their freedom of speech is being silenced. Why don't some people understand freedom of speech is for everyone and there is no constitutional guarantee that people must listen quietly, without objection, to such hate speech? And it wasn't the Republican party who first condemned them. It was Rabbi Hier from the Simon Wiesenthal Center who first loudly raised the protest against them. Lots of people are sick and fed up with the left equating Bush with Hitler and Republicans with Nazis and they are speaking out against it. It totally trivializes the terrible reality of Hitler and the Nazi's evil deeds. 6 million people systematically murdered = Republicans? Off the chart. Kakki I say: How wonderful it would have been to hear the same criticism about the Hitler comparison to Bill Clinton. It continues daily. A google search turns up thousands of web sites even today comparing Bill Clinton to Hitler. Some of the samples: Like Hitler, Clinton Proposes "Hate Crime" Legislation The President's proposed "hate crime" legislation should send a chill down the back of every thinking American. Hatred of innocent people is, of course, destructive and immoral and everyone should be opposed to it. But, not everything that is immoral should be illegal. Like so many things that this President does or wants to do, this proposal will do serious harm. It is a giant step toward Totalitarianism. Is Clinton the next Hitler? ... Various Articles Hitler's ID Propaganda - Then and Now A Letter to the Editor - The Roanoke Times Letter to the Editor - The Washington Times Ominous Parallels Clinton's "Community Service" Requirements Parallels Hitler's "New Social Consciousness" Like Hitler, Clinton Proposes Hate Crime Legislation Clinton's Crimes are Hitler's Crimes Top Ten Differences Between Hitler and Clinton Some Comparisons Between Adolf Hitler and Bill Clinton by Day R. Williams, Attorney at Law Hitler served as a soldier. Clinton dodged the draft. Hitler9s sex life was minimal. He married for the first time the day before he and his wife killed themselves. Clinton, to the other extreme, is a womanizer. Hitler never had a steady job until he got into government. Clinton never had a steady job until he got into government. Hitler was a chronic, polished liar. Clinton is a chronic, polished liar. Hitler was highly intelligent. Clinton is highly intelligent. Hitler often had temper tantrums. Clinton often has temper tantrums. Hitler was often on drugs. Clinton has often used drugs. Hitler deceived millions of people through his propaganda. Clinton has deceived millions of people through his propaganda. Hitler had fanatical followers. Clinton has fanatical followers. Hitler persuaded millions by his vigorous oratory. Clinton has persuaded millions by his smooth oratory. Millions of minorities (primarily Jews) were killed with Hitler9s blessing. Millions of minorities (unborn babies) have been killed with Clinton9s blessing. Hitler paid lip service to Christianity when convenient. Clinton pays lip service to Christianity when convenient. Hitler was convicted of treason and spent time in prison. Clinton should be convicted of treason and send to prison. Many of Hitler9s followers failed to protest their leader9s encroachments on and deprivations of their rights. Many of Clinton9s followers have failed to protest their leader9s encroachments on and deprivations of their rights. Hitler took over the executive and legislative functions of the national government. Clinton, the executive, routinely bypasses the Congress, the legislature. Hitler started a war on false pretexts. Clinton fired missiles on false pretexts. Hitler killed many of closest supporters. Clinton has killed many of closest supporters. Hitler torpedoed a British boat and denied doing it. Clinton let a TWA airliner be shot down and denied it was shot down at all. Hitler controlled his country9s press. Clinton controls his country9s press. Hitler killed all men and boys over 16 in Lidice, Czechoslovakia. Then he had the city razed to the ground. Clinton killed all men, women and children at the Branch Davidian Compound in Waco, Texas, then had the Compound razed to the ground. Hitler fought a war in the Balkans against people who were no threat to his country9s national security. Clinton fought a war in the Balkans against people who were no threat to his country9s national security. Some of Hitler9s generals made bombing attempts on Hitler9s life. No one has made an attempt on Clinton9s life. Hitler was a megalomaniac. Clinton is a sociopath. Hitler died by suicide. Clinton is alive. Comparison between Clinton and Hitler, Could that happen here? "Sadly, the comparison between Clinton and Hitler seems to be growing more apt every day. I think it is worth remembering that the German people didn't follow Hitler because he was evil; they followed him because they thought he was good. Remember also that, thanks in part to Hitler's propaganda machine AND in part to people's natural pride and unwillingness to admit when they've been duped, the German people remained blissfully ignorant of Hitler's true nature until a coalition of foreign forces finally smashed their country to rubble." Could that happen here? 1. Our highest military commander is turning out to be a self-important murdering lying hypocrite with delusions of grandeur. (So was Hitler.) 2. We have a powerful propaganda machine. (So did Hitler.) 3. We have a people who are unwilling to admit that their faith in their leader is misplaced, EVEN when the evidence is placed before them. (So did Hitler.) 4. Our people think of their country as a great shining beacon of truth. (So did Hitler's.) 5. Our people are largely ignorant of the way we are viewed by other nations. (So were Hitler's.) 6. We apparently have a military force composed of human robots who never question the morality of the orders they are given. (So did Hitler.) 7. Our military force is touted as invincible. (So was Hitler's.) 8. But it is not invincible. (Neither was Hitler's.) 9. And the countries we consider our allies can always turn against us. (Hitler's did.) 10. What, exactly, is so special about America that will magically prevent it from becoming a murdering war machine (like Hitler's) that will not be stopped until it is smashed to pieces (like Hitler's had to be)? Oh, yes, I forgot. Clinton and all of our other presidents cannot seize absolute power because they are elected only for a limited period of time. Guess what? SO WAS HITLER!! Hitler seized absolute power through political maneuvering after he was elected to office. I do not doubt that any of our presidents can do the same under the right conditions. The match isn't perfect, of course: Hitler was his own man while Clinton is just a brainless puppet. And there's no reason for any American president to seize absolute power when the people who are pulling the strings can simply parade a series of clones through the White House. All the same, the recipe above is getting pretty scary. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 09:12:40 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC I wrote: >> As for voting in the November election, I will vote for damn near >> ANYONE but Bush, unless Cheney is running. Buck replied: > Does this mean you'd vote for CHENEY? Good girl!! I knew this was going to come back to haunt me. NO, I would never in my lifetime vote for Dick Cheney (love that first name, so perfectly descriptive). What I meant was that I would vote for ANYONE but Bush, except for Cheney. : ) > Buck...contemplating a Bush landslide. That much may become a unfortunate truth if the Democrats don't get it together PDQ. Lori, who knows that she and Buck are really Libertarians ~ http://www.aidsmarathon.com/participant.asp?runner=DCNO-3152&year=2003 http://lrfye.lunarpages.com/donorform.pdf ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:14:40 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Joni Covering Les Ross wrote: > Of course it's always a bit thorny, the covering thing. People hold super > precious the 'original' artist's take on the song being covered. I'm > slightly familiar with Dylan's version of this one but, as with all Dylan's > work, I kinda run into the rocks of this voice. I'm not a great fan of how > he sounds so choose not to get near the work of the man. I think that may be > mellowing a bit with (my) age but the prejudice lingers on. Anyway I'm > fairly sure that Joan's take on this song wanders away from the original - a > safe bet, I'm sure. > > > But if you agree that joni's cover of dylan is at least worthy and are > familiar with the man's work, what, from Dylan's vast catalogue, would > constitute good cover material for Joan when she goes to record a cd's worth > of this work - as surely she won't! (but we can dream...) > Dylan's voice (or lack of same) is a common obstacle to "getting into" the man's music, and I admit, his "unique" vocalizations take some getting used to. Ya either like/love him, or ya don't. I personally love him. Almost all my Dylan (from his early and mid periods) is on vinyl and I do not have possession of my albums at this point. However, that said, there are two cuts from "Blood on the Tracks" I'd dearly love to hear Joni cover if she would be so inclined: "You're a Big Girl Now" (would she change it to "Big Boy?") and "If You See Her, Say Hello." The lyrics to both these tunes reek of heartache and loss...something Joni has always been able to express in a manner unexcelled by anyone, IMHO. Best Regards, bp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:26:14 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC Lori Fye let the cat out of the bag when she said: > > Lori, > who knows that she and Buck are really Libertarians > It's true. Ya can't pigeonhole anyone, politically. I agree with some things the Democrats stand for, same with the Republicans. These days I find myself more in agreement with the Republicans, it wasn't always so. I only WISH the Libertarian party were viable. Best regards, bp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 09:44:24 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC Buck wrote: > It's true. Ya can't pigeonhole anyone, politically. I agree with > some things the Democrats stand for, same with the Republicans. > These days I find myself more in agreement with the Republicans, it > wasn't always so. I only WISH the Libertarian party were viable. Wasn't it Winston Churchill who said something like, "Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains" ? Lori, caught in the middle, middle class and middle aged, and who is alarmed at all the young conservatives and doesn't trust anyone under 30 : ) ~ http://www.aidsmarathon.com/participant.asp?runner=DCNO-3152&year=2003 http://lrfye.lunarpages.com/donorform.pdf ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:53:32 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Joni Covering (NJC) Les Ross said: > Of course it's always a bit thorny, the covering thing. People hold super > precious the 'original' artist's take on the song being covered. Not always. Giving this thread further thought, I believe Hendrix recorded the **definitive** version of "All Along the Watchtower." Dylan's version (the original) is pale and weak, by comparison. Just had to add this...and you know there may be more. Best Regards, bp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:16:59 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Moveon org njc Kate Bennett asked us to check out: > http://moveon.org/ check > out the winning ads at http://www.bushin30seconds.org/ > I'm watching C-SPAN as I write. If "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery," then the Club For Growth is flattering MoveOn.org. The CfG has just launched a website called "Move Right," ostensibly to counter MoveOn. If you want a GOOD laugh, check this out: http://www.clubforgrowth.org/advertising/iowa-dean-script.php?clubforgrowth=3ec2a85e1b89b8feadf660d34866976e This link gives you the text of an anti-Dean ad, and even you Lefties may agree the ad is funny as all get out. Best Regards, bp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 19:40:41 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC Hi, Lori! yeah, we could trust Churchill's statement but: who is really conservative? the one whose greed sets him in the path to war, to pollution, to great media corporations? I hope I'm able to express myself correctly on this; besides, you will hear no more from me regarding those matters (at least for some days ;-) in this list: I'd recommend the JMDLPC for these things. Heart & Humour & Humility: Emiliano - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Lori Fye" Para: "Norman Pennington" ; "JMDL" Enviado: miircoles, 07 de enero de 2004 18:44 Asunto: Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC > Buck wrote: > > > It's true. Ya can't pigeonhole anyone, politically. I agree with > > some things the Democrats stand for, same with the Republicans. > > These days I find myself more in agreement with the Republicans, it > > wasn't always so. I only WISH the Libertarian party were viable. > > Wasn't it Winston Churchill who said something like, "Any man who is > under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over > 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains" ? > > > Lori, > caught in the middle, middle class and middle aged, > and who is alarmed at all the young conservatives > and doesn't trust anyone under 30 > > : ) > > > ~ > http://www.aidsmarathon.com/participant.asp?runner=DCNO-3152&year=2003 > > http://lrfye.lunarpages.com/donorform.pdf > ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 10:48:54 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Moveon org njc Buck wrote: > If you want a GOOD laugh, check this out: > http://www.clubforgrowth.org/advertising/iowa-dean-script.php? clubforgrowth=3ec2a85e1b89b8feadf660d34866976e > > This link gives you the text of an anti-Dean ad, and even you Lefties > may agree the ad is funny as all get out. It IS funny, but it's going to piss off quite a few Vermonters!! Lori ~ http://www.aidsmarathon.com/participant.asp?runner=DCNO-3152&year=2003 http://lrfye.lunarpages.com/donorform.pdf ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 10:51:12 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC Emiliano wrote: > I'd recommend the JMDLPC for these things. For anyone who is interested, that's http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jmdlpc, where there are 15 members (but where no one ever posts)!! Lori ~ http://www.aidsmarathon.com/participant.asp?runner=DCNO-3152&year=2003 http://lrfye.lunarpages.com/donorform.pdf ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:36:31 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: The Dream Sequence, NJC Buck> As I inferred in my original post...the military is a diverse community with widely varying points of view, just like US society as a whole. My _anecdotal_ experience (clarification here) is the large majority of military folks believe Dubya and Rumsfeld have had a positive impact. Your milage may vary... ;-)< Hi buck...I don't know if the majority in the military support or do not support the current administration but my guess would be the majority are in support...however, I wanted to voice the dissenting view that I was hearing among some who are currently serving in the military...I wonder how often dissent is actually expressed as it must be very scary & perhaps dangerous to voice opposition to the commander in chief when you are serving in the military... Buck >Kate, this link takes me to the New American Century splash page...do you have a more specific link from whence you obtained your quotes? I'd like to read this.< You can read the overall statement of principles here: http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples To read the plan itself you must go through the 90 page document called "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century." which is here: http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf Have fun! It is my opinion that this PNAC document should be common knowledge by now but it is far from that from what I can tell...this group is still something many people (bush supporters & bush opposers) have absolutely no knowledge of. Which is amazing to me considering the many PNAC members who are in the current administration & their documets written prior to 9/11. For those who support an imperialist agenda, military buildup & war without end on behalf of "american interests" then the PNAC/Bush doctrine is certainly for you: "As the 20th century draws to a close, the United States stands as the world's preeminent power...Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests? Cuts in foreign affairs and defense spending, inattention to the tools of statecraft, and inconstant leadership are making it increasingly difficult to sustain American influence around the world." Statement of Principles June 3, 1997 signed by : Elliott Abrams, Gary Bauer, William J. Bennett, Jeb Bush, Dick Cheney, Eliot A. Cohen, Midge Decter, Paula Dobriansky, Steve Forbes, Aaron Friedberg, Francis Fukuyama, Frank Gaffney, Fred C. Ikle, Donald Kagan, Zalmay Khalilzad, I. Lewis Libby, Norman Podhoretz, Dan Quayle, Peter W. Rodman, Stephen P. Rosen, Henry S. Rowen, Donald Rumsfeld, Vin Weber, George Weigel, Paul Wolfowitz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 13:10:11 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC Kate said: > I wonder how often dissent is actually expressed as it must be very scary > & perhaps dangerous to voice opposition to the commander in chief when > you are serving in the military... > Thanks, Kate. In an earlier post I said "These days I find myself more in agreement with the Republicans, it wasn't always so." To be more specific, and to answer your question about how often dissent is actually expressed within the military, let me offer the following. I was on active duty throughout the entire Viet Nam war. I opposed this war vociferously...for reasons that have been beaten to death over the past 30 years, so I won't go into THAT here. I expressed my politcal opinions (dissent at the time) loudly and often to virtually ANYONE who would listen...I was so much braver and smarter then, LOL. I also expressed my views within my duty section and acquired a reputation as the "house liberal." At NO time was I EVER told to "shut up or else" by my superiors. Here's the critical issue: One is allowed to have a PERSONAL opinion in the military, and one is free to express that opinion. What *isn't* permitted is to go "on the record" and publicly express dissent. Examples: TV interviews while in uniform, wearing the uniform to a demonstration, publishing anti-war articles or letters to the editor and signing same with a "Joe Blow, SSgt, USAF." All of the foregoing are defined by the military as actions "predjudicial to good order and discipline." There were military people who were prosecuted during the VN war for violating that rule...but we were *all* briefed on where the line was drawn when it came to dissent. Hope this helps... > signed by : Elliott Abrams, Gary Bauer, William J. Bennett, Jeb Bush, > Dick Cheney, Eliot A. Cohen, Midge Decter, Paula Dobriansky, Steve > Forbes, Aaron Friedberg, Francis Fukuyama, Frank Gaffney, Fred C. Ikle, > Donald Kagan, Zalmay Khalilzad, I. Lewis Libby, Norman Podhoretz, Dan > Quayle, Peter W. Rodman, Stephen P. Rosen, Henry S. Rowen, Donald > Rumsfeld, Vin Weber, George Weigel, Paul Wolfowitz > Wow! Quite the list! Best Regards, bp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:42:14 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: The Dream Sequence, NJC/ now james lipton question "One is allowed to have a PERSONAL opinion in the military, and one is free to express that opinion. What *isn't* permitted is to go "on the record" and publicly express dissent." Thanks for your reply Buck...this policy makes a lot of sense to me...i wonder if it is still the same now...the usa culture has changed much since then so I imagine the military culture has too...i have no firsthand experience so I don't know...but it is a question worth asking...whether those who dissent still feel free to express their opinion...see what comes to mind is that cia/top administration leak scenario...its not the military but it is troubling to me... "I was so much braver and smarter then, LOL." Lol...it seems I've been a dissenter most of my life :~}...perhaps that is because I have such a different vision of the world than the one that was in charge during the vietnam era & my golly I still have the same vision & am just as foolish as I've ever been! It's a vision which is certainly different than the one that is in charge now... if I were to be interviewed james lipton (behind the actor's studio) where he asked what profession would you least like to try, I'd have to say it would be joining the military...lol...my answer for one I would like to pursue (too late now & I had no talent for it ever) would be a fabulous ice skater! (hi jimmy) There is an idea for a new thread! What would profession would you most like to pursue, least like to pursue? Peace, kate ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 14:49:43 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: NJC - RUN LORI RUN!!!! Dear Fellow Listers, As many of you know, our own Lori Fye is participating in a marathon benefiting AIDS in New Orleans, Louisiana on Sunday, February 29, 2004. The links are below for your information. http://www.aidsmarathon.com/participant.asp?runner=DCNO-3152&year=2003 > http://lrfye.lunarpages.com/donorform.pdf She ran 20 miles in this marathon last year and I went to N.O. to cheer her on and had a fabulous time! This year I am going again and would like to know if anyone else would like to come down and share a room that weekend for this event. Besides being a fabulous town with tons of things to see and do, New Orleans is home to our Michael Paz "The Pazman" who is just one of many fascinating sites to see! So come on down! Let's give Lori our support and make it a mini-Jonifest!! Love, Donna (ready for a road trip and a party) This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 13:51:04 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC/ now james lipton question Kate asked: > There is an idea for a new thread! What would profession would you most > like to pursue, least like to pursue? Most: I've always had a secret desire to be a copywriter in a Madison Ave ad agency. Least: ANYTHING in government! I'd sooner sell used cars... I swear, this is my LAST post today. I need to get on with life! Buck...wondering what to do until the girlfriend gets off work ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 13:16:21 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Moveon org njc Lori, buck & kakki, somehow I missed where this quote was from...ie who equated these two entities...was it in one of the videos? > 6 million people systematically murdered = Republicans?< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:09:32 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: The Dream Sequence, NJC hi > As kakki says > >>Is this humor or does whoever really believe Gore invented the internet?!<< if gore really invented the internet - why does he keep ignoring my requests for a refund of my subscription to bigbeavers.com ????? :-) ron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:23:11 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Moveon org njc hi >>>kakki wrote >>>>>Lots of people are sick and fed up with the left equating Bush with Hitler and Republicans with Nazis and they are speaking out against it. It totally trivializes the terrible reality of Hitler and the Nazi's evil deeds. 6 million people systematically murdered = Republicans? Off the chart. ah - so bush is not as bad as hitler?? mmm - quite an accomplishment & a wonderful reason to support him :-) as bob m (mugabe) said the other day - thank god we havent got oil :-) ron (who has a totally illogical and unfounded loathing of dubya & feels sick every time he sees him... but still says the above totally tongue in cheek & would support to his dying day other peoples right to love dubya) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 10:40:06 +1300 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Brooke Fraser - NJC I've resubbed to the list (if briefly) to sing the praises of a new NZ singer-songwriter, Brooke Fraser. She is 19, and incredibly talented. Her debut album (What To Do With Daylight) was produced by Brady Blade (who has played with Joni, and is the brother of Brian Blade), and he plays drums on most tracks. Brooke played guitar and/or piano on all tracks, and wrote all the songs on the album. You can check her out at http://www.brookefraser.com (the music tab has samples). I recommend Lifeline and Better (two tracks released here as singles). Hopefully her talent will be recognised outside NZ and she can actually make a career out of her music! Hell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:44:06 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Re: Joni statue > The generous Rick from LA asked: > > < size or maybe slightly larger than life size statue of Stevie Ray > Vaughan, so something similar in Saskatoon for Joni would > be great. And no, we don't have to wait until she is no longer > with us. Does anyone know how they raised the money for > the SRV statue and approx. how much it cost?>> > http://www.thestocktank.com/ptex0003.htm Great Statue I run by it about twice a month. I heard but cannot verify that Don Henley donated tens of thousands for the statue. You would have to contact either the Austin Visitors Bureau or the Texas Music Office. Peace, Craig ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:01:51 -0800 (PST) From: magsnbrei Subject: amazing mary grace an update and reminder (mgval) Thank you everyone for your patience as I once again take up a wee bit of bandwidth so that I may reach everyone on the list, with a very important message. Again, read on and you will understand why. It's been a while since I posted any news about our Amazing Mary Grace Fund .. Back in December, we placed a call to all members of the JMDL to help ease the burden that Mary Grace continues to bear in her fight against a life threatening illness. First of all, as of December 25th, 2003, which was the last date of money received, the grand total collected so far is $1,880.00. (wow!) We are completely blown away by the incredible response, beyond our wildest dreams. How wonderful to take action to help our Jmdl sister and friend who has graced our list since near the beginning, c1996/7. I want to thank you all once again for your participation, and hopefully, you've received a hand written acknowledgement . If not, please write me off list and let me know. I am so proud to know that even people who have never met MG have participated. In at least one case, a person came forward with a donation because they just happened upon the home page where Les Irvin has posted a photo and a request there as well. Incredible, wouldnt you say? From my heart, I ask you, if this is something that you feel drawn to do, we are still accepting donations. We've received many variations on that theme, and trust me when I say, every little bit helps. Your donation remains anonymous and you will receive, as mentioned above, a hand written acknowledgement. thank you Ashara and Les for facilitating this and to everyone, really, for making this happen. And to all of you sending kind words, thoughts , prayers, intentions and well wishes for Mary Grace, please keep them going her way. Never estimate the power of what you can do personally to effect change. Again, please feel free to use the instructions as posted on our home page. www.jmdl.com You may send a cheque to: Ashara Productions, LLC 40 Parsonage Lane Topsfield, MA 01983 USA OR via Paypal a link can be found on the JMDL home page. www.jmdl.com all paypal fees have been generously paid for thus far by an anonymous donor. Ashara continues to forward the money directly to Mary Grace, who btw, is very touched by our assistance in her time of need. thank you for the multitude of kindness shown for this wonderful woman and her family. much love, Mags and Brian ***** your absence has gone through me like thread through a needle everything i do is stitched with its colour. w.s.merwin Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #7 *************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)