From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #618 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, December 12 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 618 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: matt savage NJC [FredNow@aol.com] The Ms Mitchell site...a newbies view ["ash" ] A lurker responds..... [Gordon Mackie ] post and it will be read! (njc) [rholliston@HighSpeedPlus.com] Re: chaos, NJC [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Dreams do come true (NJC) [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Goodbye Re: joni's angst [tantra-apso ] Re: december 12!!!! njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Words-first or Music-first? njc [Catherine McKay ] RE: Words-first or Music-first? njc ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Today show ["David Rahall" ] Re: Dreams do come true (NJC) ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Words-first or Music-first? njc [magsnbrei ] Re:Look to this day and remember Mary Grace [Bob Shemkovitz ] Re: Re:Look to this day and remember Mary Grace ["Jim Leonard" ] Re: Words-first or Music-first? some joni now [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Look to this day and remember Mary Grace (njc) ["Lori Fye" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 04:27:43 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: matt savage NJC "mike pritchard" writes: > I'm reading an article in the December edition of 'Wired' about an > autistic savant piano player called Matt Savage who has just released his fifth > album of jazz piano, and recently booked to play at the Blue Note in NYC. He is > eleven years old. The article is very interesting IMHO especially for the > 'mathematical' way that Matt 'sees' things in life; patterns, syllables, > connections etc. "Matt has an amazing ability to calculate relationships > between chords and lines, which can all be expressed in numbers", says his > piano teacher. My questions are; 1) has anyone out there in joniland heard this > kid and is he any good? 2) If jazz is something 'from the 'soul'/'heart', can > it be all down to numbers? The article also ponders if creativity is linked to > / enhanced by brain damage, suggesting that Monk may have had Tourette's > syndrome and that Glenn Gould possibly suffered from Asperger's syndrome. > Gould, the article says, was a 'legendary control freak in > the studio' and like many savants 'had absolute pitch'. Any answers/comments? > > mike in barcelona > > np Danilo Perez b overjoyed (again) Hi Mike, I had not heard, or heard of, Matt Savage so I went to his web site to read and listen. Here are my answers to your questions. 1) Is he any good? There's no way to say this without sounding like a total Scrooge, but from the excerpts I heard, he sounds pretty much like what he is: a 10 year old kid with a certain amount of talent. To my ears, he is definitely not a prodigy, and there are countless musical/technical problems, which are to be expected for his age and inexperience. I have very mixed feelings about all this ... on the one hand, it's fantastic that he has found something to feel passionate about, and I do think it helps him deal with his autism. But would he get the kind of attention he's getting (Today Show, People magazine, Kennedy Center gig, etc.) if not for his autism? No. And that makes me very uncomfortable. 2) If jazz is something "from the 'soul'/'heart'" can it be all down to numbers? There is plenty of heart and soul in numbers. But beyond that, just because it can be expressed in numbers doesn't mean that it is comprised solely of numbers. Lastly, really glad to hear you're digging the Danilo Perez album ... I heard his trio twice last week and it was sublime. All best, Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:08:41 +1100 From: "ash" Subject: The Ms Mitchell site...a newbies view If you're not a Jonifest attendee, > you're pretty much frozen out and your posts are ignored by the "popular > kids." I stay on for the Joni discussions and don't care about making > friends here. I hope that my contributions to the discussion (less > frequent these days) is appreciated by the lurkers and the other "unpopular > kids." > > > At 06:06 PM 12/10/2003 -0800, you wrote: > >More and more I have felt like I am on the periphery of this > >'community'. It seems to me that the list is mainly for Jonifest > >attendees these days. Personally I feel like the rest of us are out > >in the woods somewhere unless we work really hard to force our way in. Ash here..... Okay I am in the woods.... literally here in Tasmania and they are chopping em down at a huge rate of knots..... Posts ignored mmmm?. well mine have always been published in full. Everytime I have posted, I get something off site as well and its always been something of interest...I myself have felt none of the negative vibes that you think you are feeling, but then I am pretty thick skinned! At the beginning I went and looked up the photos of the folks who attended the Jonifest, just to put a face to a name and to me they all appear like very normal people..who I would gladly welcome to stay here... "on the periphery"..at first like you, the posts lost me as the "popular kids" would talk to each other in their posts about events that made no sense to me..but it did not make me feel unwelcome at all, I did latch on to musicians names and commented on them...but I did not 'force' my way in, as there was no need to. My reason to join was to know more about Ms Mitchell.....yes?... but really I have learnt more about other artist, which for me is a huge bonus...imagine a site...just...Joni, Joni, Joni, etc..to me that would be a site I would visit, say once a month.... I lie ...weekly.. okay everyday still! but to have the other topics..brilliant. I was on a writers site (David Gemmell) and I wished to talk of other subjects and was told not to go 'off Subject'. many times and then one day I asked why a lot of Gemmells names seemed like Tolkiens names..OOOOOH! I was driven off the site!! I had broken the 1st commandment..though shall have no writer except Mr Gemmell! But with this site, I have reappraised my opinion of other artists and found my musical horizons broadedened and did they need broadening!!! I also laffed with this term "popular kids" and before that the mention of the "inner circle"..all this is very amusing and actually shows a great sense of humour, as you can't really believe this, that there is a us and them? But then is it not normal for groups to have the founders as the "popular kids"?..and in a way they have earned the 'kudos' or credit of keeping this wonderful site going..all I do is waffle on..they at least have spent time and their own money and LOVE to achieve the high standard of professionalism and I take my hat off to them, for a fantastic achievement, that has brought so much pleasure to me. Where I work, I don't think I am a "popular kid" as I come from the mainland ...but I recognise that I am accepted and that my view is as important as the groups, so I in return I listen to the newer workers....I feel I fit in the group. I see myself as a "nerd" if we use the school as the terminology..but it does not worry me..I would love to be "Jock" or sneakily a "cheer leader" ..I jest! Like this site and work, you take on to yourself what you need? But there are times I have wanted to skip topics.....as there are always so many but I have made myself read them all... as a lot seem to be about America. In doing this I have actually learned a lot, that has helped me understand people more. In today's life styles we are 'busy' and if someone starts a thread or a topic and no one follows thru, its not that the person or topic is dismissed, its just that people would like to, but have time restraints....I have seen many topics..that I have gone to add to but have found myself putting off and the maddening thing about this site..that there are so many clever folk on it, that is ALWAYS another topic...so please do not think, your post is wasted....I have at least read It! And as to Newbies....I see that each one is welcomed by others..which makes this site seem like a family or a community of caring and loving people. I have got so much out of this group of people and everyone seems so different as are the NJC bits, my evening at the computer is not complete unless I have sat and read my digest, sometimes I have come away awed by the reasoning, shook my head at certain comments, felt guilty that I will impress my friends with knowledge I have borrowed from the site, (mainly musical) nodded in agreement with certain topics and pissed myself laughing at others..I love the ones, where the poster has to explain what he posted was a joke..well I saw it as a joke in the 1st place!! I try to image each poster to this site, some in an apartment opposite Centeral park, a villa in Spain, a mansion in London, a huge log cabin in Canada etc I just love my 1/2 hour of my Joni digest (yep a slow reader) on this computer and then go and put on a Ms Mitchell CD.. and my last point..I actually have favourite posters.....I look at the index and am thrilled when I see certain names as I know that will be of interest or argument and then read or is it savour these digests?. and there has to be more than 30 posters on this site? and what's wrong with lurking??? after all its what is known as democracy? I think it was pointed out....that there was the Old Guard, Middle Guard and the Young Guard.....and any title with the word Young is pleasing to me!! oh yes this is meant to be a joke! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:41:15 +0000 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: A lurker responds..... Hi Jmdlers, A wee refection from Scotland...no its not a hand held mirror...as someone involved in training Community Educators, the concept of 'community' is important to me and professionals in this field. Communities change and develop all the time and in fact its that ability to re-build community which is an enduring feature of such groups. I see whats happening as entirely understandable and people will leave and new people wil join. Sad and good all at the one time. If anyone wants to read about 'community' theres a lot written about it...Delanty's book "Community' is a good start Hey, its coming on Christmas....Mike in Barcelona..r u gonna be in town from 22nd - 28th? If so , so will I . Staying near Placa Catalunya so if your about, get me an 'e'. (no Im not on drugs) Lighten up sweetie(s) Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 02:39:55 -0800 From: rholliston@HighSpeedPlus.com Subject: post and it will be read! (njc) Hey and welcome y'all, I've been a JMDLer since February 1998, and have happily attended three Jonifests. This is, above all, a community, and like any community anywhere there are differences of opinion. The list is what it is, and it will do what it does. Les Irvin - our shy leader - refuses to be an autocrat, which suits me fine. During the past five years, I've welcomed many JMDLers into my home, and have been welcomed into theirs. I've made genuine friends here, in person and online, and if I mostly lurk these days, it's just because I'm older (48) and have an ever-expanding workload (24/7). I don't know quite what to think of Mark's departure or Deb Messling's comments. I've always treasured their posts. The possibility that either of them felt ostracized never occurred to me. For crying out loud, post ye lurkers! Your posts will be read - and if they don't generate responses, well, as Colin implied, join the club! Sometimes a post says it all, and requires no response. There is no inner circle on this list, Jonifest or not. If I've made friends in real life it's because I've taken the time and trouble - and expense - to travel out East to meet them. Any JMDLer has a place to sleep in my building, any time. Period. Friendship takes effort, even in an online group. For f*ckin' out loud, let's make that effort. Cheers and love - LOVE!!!!! - to all, Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:02:31 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: chaos, NJC Victor writes: > Exactly! You hit it on the nail. Pema Chodrun in her book "When Things > Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times" talks about embracing chaos > and obstacles instead of fighting them, incorporating it into your > existence and letting it become a part of you, much like you are saying. > This book is one of the best I've ever read and I even had a mystical > experience with it involving one of Kate Bennett's songs. Thank you for this serenity tip, Waytoblu. I've been way too blue of late for many reasons. I've ordered this book. Well, the entire Pema Chodrun collection, actually, in one volume. This may be just what I need to help me weather this season of my life. Rubbing the Buddha's belly alone hasn't worked thus far. :-) Can we hear about your mystical experience with Kate's song, please? I have them when I listen to her, too. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:11:44 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Dreams do come true (NJC) The best news it that plans are already in the works to have me open for one of my favorite groups Frankie Beverly and Maze (Joy and Pain) in February! I have a band to back me that is employed by the label. I am in serious shock as is my family and need to adjust to the idea of touring and making music all the time. How happy I've been for anyone who gets to do it on a full time basis. I'm screaming with delight!!! Congratulations, Sherelle!! When is the Maze gig?! Where?! I as so, so happy for you! Can't wait to see you on tour. I love, love, love when good things happen to good people, and you are truly one of the best - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:12:49 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: Goodbye Re: joni's angst Randy Remote wrote: > >She seems to be so sour on mother issues that she rejects >completely the idea of being one. Mom is critical, guilt tripping, >Dad has been embraced as okay and supportive. > >And in "Facelift" she recounts a tense Christmas as she confronts >her mother's disapproval over Joni's unmarried sex. She shoots a >guilt dart of her own back at her mother, telling her to open her >gifts and be happy (even though you ruined my day). > >There are other examples, I'm sure. It seems she has alot of conflict >over issues of control, morality and conscience with her mother. Or >did when she wrote the songs- maybe she is past that by now. > It does seem to me that Joni has not learned to be her own parent and that her 'critical parent' is still lugged around by her. A sad situation. If she could free herself of her mother it would make such a difference. It may even affect her work positively. Sometimes what we project outwards is what we get back. Thank you for your response. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:59:21 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: december 12!!!! njc Happy birthday, Mr Lahm (although I often think of you as Mr Flahm!) --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y > > DAVID!!!! > > love, > wally (aka nina in argentina) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:03:26 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Words-first or Music-first? njc --- "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > Since Julie's not around to do this anymore, I'll do > it for her: > >>>Are you a words-first person or a music-first > person?<<< Mostly a words-first person (except when there are no words, and the music still has to be good.) And consistently a Beatles (vs DC5, Stones, or any other of those "boy" groups) fan. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:28:21 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: The Ms Mitchell site...a newbies view --- ash wrote: > Ash here..... > Okay I am in the woods.... literally here in > Tasmania and they are chopping > em down at a huge rate of knots..... > > Posts ignored mmmm?. > well mine have always been published in full. > Everytime I have posted, I get something off site as > well and its always > been something of interest...I myself have felt none > of the negative vibes > that you think you are feeling, but then I am pretty > thick skinned! ... That helps. I'm not too easily offended myself and often don't even understand what exactly it was that pissed someone else off (so maybe I'm thick-headed as well as thick-skinned.) If I find something offensive, I generally try to give myself a cooling-off period before responding, in order to figure out just exactly what it was that pissed me off about whatever that person said and whether it's related to some other baggage I've been carrying around. Often it is. I was talking to some friends the other day about that - when people use certain words that my ex-husband used to use when we were fighting or he was putting me down (particularly when he was using them incorrectly to begin with), I find my hackles rising - even though the words themselves are basically innocuous (at least, when used correctly, LOL). So I have to realize it's not necessarily what the other person said, but the bad feelings it raises about bad times with my ex. With time, therapy and lots of drugs, this too shall pass. In the meantime, I have a list of words that really piss me off for no rational reason. > In today's life styles we are 'busy' and if someone > starts a thread or a > topic > and no one follows thru, its not that the person or > topic is dismissed, > its just that people would like to, but have time > restraints....I have seen > many topics..that I have gone to add to but have > found myself putting off > and the maddening thing about this site..that there > are so many clever folk > on it, that is ALWAYS another topic...so please do > not think, your post is > wasted....I have at least read It! Exactly. There are days I want to respond to every post (and days when I do) but I'm either really busy and decide to save it and respond later, and then too much time passes; or else I start feeling a little of that Catholic guilt about taking up too much bandwidth and wondering if everyone's going to hate me for posting too much (not that there's an actual limit, but there could be a perceived one.) > And as to Newbies....I see that each one is welcomed > by others..which makes > this site seem like a family or a community of > caring and loving people. > > I have got so much out of this group of people and > everyone seems so > different as are the NJC bits, my evening at the > computer is not complete > unless I have sat > and read my digest, sometimes I have come away awed > by the reasoning, shook > my head at certain comments, felt guilty that I will > impress my friends with > knowledge I have borrowed from the site, (mainly > musical) nodded in > agreement with certain topics and pissed myself > laughing at others.. Hello, my name is Catherine, and I'm a jmdl-holic. That's what I want to say sometimes. Every now & then I go into lurk mode to see if I can handle it. A couple of times I unsubbed for various reasons, but found myself sneaking back to read the archives. It's kind of sick! and I too have used info I picked up from the list in discussions with in-front-of-me-flesh-and-blood people, and I too, feel slightly (but not terribly) guilty about that. After all, if you read it in the newspaper, would you feel bad about it? btw, Ash, I always get a kick out of your posts. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:36:16 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Goodbye Re: joni's angst Randy Remote wrote: > >She seems to be so sour on mother issues that she > rejects > >completely the idea of being one. Mom is critical, > guilt tripping, > >Dad has been embraced as okay and supportive. > > > >And in "Facelift" she recounts a tense Christmas as > she confronts > >her mother's disapproval over Joni's unmarried sex. > She shoots a > >guilt dart of her own back at her mother, telling > her to open her > >gifts and be happy (even though you ruined my day). > > > >There are other examples, I'm sure. It seems she > has alot of conflict > >over issues of control, morality and conscience > with her mother. Or > >did when she wrote the songs- maybe she is past > that by now. > > --- tantra-apso wrote: > > It does seem to me that Joni has not learned to be > her own parent and > that her 'critical parent' is still lugged around by > her. A sad > situation. If she could free herself of her mother > it would make such a > difference. It may even affect her work positively. > Sometimes what we > project outwards is what we get back. I can relate to that. Joni says it well. Colin, I think you posted about this a little while ago and I wanted to respond at the time but then things got busy, so thank you, Colin and RR, for raising this issue again. Parents don't necessarily have to be abusive. Mine certainly weren't, but sometimes, if a kid is really sensitive and wants to please her parents, then nothing she can do is ever good enough. I have dealt with that in my own life and, even though both my parents are now dead, some of it remains. Often I tend to see only the bad things (about myself) and wonder whether I'll ever be "worthy" (of what?) I heard an interview with Seal on the radio last week or the week before and he said something that I found very touching and profound. His father used to abuse him, but Seal said that that was all part of what made HIM (Seal, that is) who he is today and if it weren't for that, then maybe he wouldn't have achieved what he has done. And he said, despite the abuse, he loves his father for that and thanks him for it. It wasn't said in a way that sound masochistic at all, not "thanks, Dad, for beating the crap out of me" - it was more a reflection on the fact that what we go through, what we deal with in life, is all part of what makes us the people we are now. I suppose a person could give in to the futility and drink or do drugs, but some people learn from every experience, no matter how terrible, and create something good out of it. In Joni's own words, "Life is for learning". ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:56:49 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: Words-first or Music-first? njc > Since Julie's not around to do this anymore, I'll do it for her: > >>>Are you a words-first person or a music-first person?<<< I'll go one up on you and say I'm a words/vocals first person. When I first started delving into music, I was drawn into all these bands with a super strong vocal sound like Styx, Journey, Kansas, Iron Maiden, Rush, or with interesting, unique sounding vocals like Jethro Tull, Black Sabbath, Yes. ( great lyrics as well of course...)...the same reason I can sit and listen to Stevie Wonder for hours and hours... I've noticed that the quality of vocals has seemed to deteriorate in the past decade. I think the success of singers like Michael Stipe, who doesn't have a stellar voice(but one I happen to like alot) opened the doors for bands without really strong singers...and other bands where having a great singer doesn't seem to matter as much anymore. I think that's one reason I don't connect as much with alot of the contemporary bands...all their singers sound the same to me.(of course there are exceptions.) I think the singer from Evanesance can really sing... Victor Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:42:16 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Today show Michelle Branch is singing River live on the Today show right now. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:50:21 -0500 From: "David Rahall" Subject: Re: Today show Dontcha wish we had even *faster* means of communication sometimes?:-) David Rahall - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Notaro" To: "Joni List" Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 8:42 AM Subject: Today show > Michelle Branch is singing River live on the Today show right now. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:28:32 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: Dreams do come true (NJC) Thanks Julius! The concert is tentatively scheduled for one of the venues here in D.C. and the date is tentatively set for February 14th, Valentine's Day. It would be a hoot if they scheduled it for the MCI Center as I work for the company!! Everyone here from the president on down is very supportive of me musically. They know my days with the organization are numbered and they are okay with it. I give them 100% while I am here. Julius, I also rejoice when good things happen to good people, but I never thought of myself as "that good person". I know exactly what you are saying and that's whay it means so much. Thank you.... Love, Sherelle >From: JRMCo1@aol.com >To: sherellesmith@hotmail.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Dreams do come true (NJC) >Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:11:44 EST > >The best news it that plans are already in the works to have me open for >one >of my favorite groups Frankie Beverly and Maze (Joy and Pain) in February! >I >have a band to back me that is employed by the label. I am in serious shock >as is my family and need to adjust to the idea of touring and making music >all the time. How happy I've been for anyone who gets to do it on a full >time basis. > >I'm screaming with delight!!! Congratulations, Sherelle!! > >When is the Maze gig?! Where?! I as so, so happy for you! Can't wait to >see you on tour. I love, love, love when good things happen to good people, >and >you are truly one of the best > >-Julius _________________________________________________________________ Shop online for kids toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:30:24 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Words-first or Music-first? njc For me, it has to be BOTH before I'll put my money down. The artists I've stayed with over the years (e.g., Van Morrison, Neil Young, Lyle Lovett, Etta James) seem to be equally good at creating (or purloining) outstanding music and combining it with thoughtful lyrics with either insight or emotion that strikes a chord with me. As an example, I fell off the Joni boat for a while after DJRD and Mingus...I guess I'm just not as musically developed as others when it comes to appreciating jazz. I need that catchy melodic "hook" along with The Deeper Meaning for anything to work for me! Buck Pennington, a newbie temporarily living in Portales, New Mexico. NP: SportsCenter From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" > > >>>Are you a words-first person or a music-first person?<<< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:37:39 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: Goodbye Re: joni's angst Catherine McKay wrote: > but some people >learn from every experience, no matter how terrible, >and create something good out of it. > > > yes. The best revenge is to live well as someone once said. However, I don't think it right to be grateful or thankful for abuse. Imagine how Seal's talent may have been expressed without the abuse. The act of abuse is purely negative and to turn into a power for good is outrageous. Seal is what he is because of himself, not because he was abused. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:56:13 -0800 (PST) From: magsnbrei Subject: Re: Words-first or Music-first? njc difficult to say...hmmmm... first reaction is that i'm a 'words first' person (what a surprise ;-)..... I remember the first time I heard Joni Mitchell...it was the debut of Court and Spark courtesy of Terry Williams, DJ extraordinaire, who worked at our local radio station. It's all Terry's doing that I ever found Joni in the first place. Ive always wondered what ever happened to Terry, last I heard he worked in Halifax, Nova Scotia....alas I digress. If you are out there Terry, thanks ever so! I was working as a volunteer at a distress centre, tucked away in a gorgeous little room at the back of a grand old Anglican church in St. Catharines, Ontario (au Canada!) . I can still hear the creaking of the wood beneath my feet. The words in Down To You made me stop what I was doing . Like a gentle tap on the tuning fork, Joni's words resonated so much of the 'familiar' in me. So much so that I was inspired to call the DJ (something Ive never done before or since) to ask who this was! Yes Virginia, lyrics are very important to me. As it has often been said here, Joni's lyrics have a way of speaking for me, speaking to me. Despite the fact that I may appear to be up front and personal on this list, Im a very shy person too. It is much easier for me to communicate via writing than speaking face to face. I often melt into the background thank you very much ;-) I joined the list in April of 2000 and if it had not been for people like Colin, Jimmy and Bob Muller, I think I would have stayed in the background. Ive never met Colin, and yet I feel that I know him well because we have exchanged emails ever since . Jimmy wrote to me every single day for the first week I was on the list. He spoke to me about his love for Court and Spark and encouraged me to write. I was mortified at the thought, but I did it anyway...and look what's happened as a result. Anyway, Jimmy's posts were always welcoming, light hearted, sincere, and full of mischief ;-) Muller, what can I say, he's my bro. And there are many people Ive *met* through shared writings, and there are people that Ive spoken with on the phone and feel a connection with, even though there's never been a face to face. I know there's plenty of talk about how amazingly fantastic Joni Fest is and Ashara and everything and everyone related . It's okay, I didnt believe it either so I went to my first Fest at Ash's home and then I was hooked. It was an incredible moment to meet jmdlers face to face for the first time, connecting email addresses to names and personalities. Everything begins to mesh before your eyes, and you suddenly realize this feels more like the best family reunion ever. And you stay connected and it the flames keep burning all year round. That said, I have dear friends around the world and we've never met and chances are, in this lifetime, we wont. That said, friendships are possible. After all, Im so glad to be here because I have made the very best of friends here, as Dutch Uncle puts it, the kind of friends you've been seeking your whole life. Yes Victor dearest, this is an email list and I know for a fact that lives have been saved, lives have been altered as a result of "being" here. I joined this list because Ive been a fan of Joni Mitchell's music since 1974. Because of the richness and wealth of knowledge within posts like Deb Messling's or Mark in Seattle's, and countless others, I have learned so much more about Joni, her life, the why, the why not...and I continue to learn. In fact, I had not heard much of her music in the "middle" years, and Ive even learned to listen to Dog Eat Dog ;-P Ive also been introduced to so music I never would have listened to had it not been for the diverse interests on this list. It's an education in and of itself. So jump on in and tell us what you think , how you found Joni, and anything your heart desires. as Joni says, 'it all comes down to you' dear lurkers and new ones. Come to the dinner gong, the table is laden high. as Brei will tell you ...welcome home ;-) Mags np: the cranberries...no need to argue ;-) Catherine McKay wrote: - --- "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > Since Julie's not around to do this anymore, I'll do > it for her: > >>>Are you a words-first person or a music-first > person?<<< Mostly a words-first person (except when there are no words, and the music still has to be good.) And consistently a Beatles (vs DC5, Stones, or any other of those "boy" groups) fan. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ***** your absence has gone through me like thread through a needle everything i do is stitched with its colour. w.s.merwin New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:59:20 -0500 From: Bob Shemkovitz Subject: Re:Look to this day and remember Mary Grace on 12/11/03 mags wrote: > Let me speak, for I have no bitterness there. > > This is not a time for analysis, or putting forth expertise on how things > should or should not be done, this is a grass roots, down to earth request, a > chance to help someone in need... > > I leave you with this Sanskrit Proverb > > Look to this day > for it is life > The very life of life > In its brief course lie all > the realities and verities of existence > The bliss of growth > The splendor of action > The glory of power > > For yesterday is but a dream > And tomorrow is only a vision > But today, well lived, > makes every yestereday a dream of happiness > And every tomorrow a vision of hope > Look well, therefore, to this day. Thank you, mags. I wasn't going to say anymore about this whole situation, but then you had to go and post a poem that has been a powerful force in my life for thirty years now, so I have to respond just one more time. With all the back-and-forth that's been going on here, your post sums it all up for me. It's not a time for analysis, expertise, intellectualization, rationalization, criticism, complaints, or arguments. A member of the community is in need. It's time to help. As far as I'm concerned, those who can help financially, even in a small way, are welcome to do so. Those who believe in the efficacy of prayer and wish to send some healing or comforting energy to Mary & her loved ones, should take the time to do so. Those who want to express their feelings about Mary privately, should do so. And those who want to express their feelings about Mary in the public forum in which they've "met" her, if only through her posts, should feel FREE to do so. I'm sorry that Mary is ill. I pray that a miracle will happen that will allow her loved ones to have her in their lives for a long, full, healthy lifetime. I appreciate the opportunity to give whatever small assistance I am able to. Thank you for inviting me to do so. You are a good soul. No bitterness here either! Peace to all. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:00:01 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE: Dreams do come true (NJC) Dear Patrick, I will most definitely add your name to and anyone else who would like to stay posted. Even though I've been on the JMDL for years, I don't want to intrude with announcements and things like that. So if anyone wants to be updated, just send me a blank email with the words "Update Me" in the subject line and I will add you to the list. Don't worry about the Maze concert, Patrick. If all goes well, the label is going to have me do a lot of jazz festivals. As much as I love Frankie Beverly and Maze too, this is the prospect which really excites me! And don't worry Patrick...you will always know me when! Love, Sherelle >From: "patrick leader" >To: "Sherelle Smith" , >Subject: RE: Dreams do come true (NJC) >Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:41:46 -0500 > >dearest sherelle: > >if you establish an email notification list, as all true divas do, please >please add me to it. as much as i love maze, i doubt i'd buy a ticket, but >if you were opening i'd be there with bells on, screaming 'i knew her >when!' > >seriously, please keep me/us posted. i wish the best for you. > >patrick > >npimh - discord and grace on the list > > >The best news it that plans are already in the works to have me > >open for one > >of my favorite groups Frankie Beverly and Maze (Joy and Pain) in > >February! > _________________________________________________________________ Dont worry if your Inbox will max out while you are enjoying the holidays. Get MSN Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:20:04 -0600 From: "William Waddell" Subject: River Hi everyone and Season's Greetings. On NBC's 'Today' show this morning, Michelle Branch sang 'River'. Maybe she does a version of it on a new album or something. WtSx _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of our best MSN Dial-up offer of the year  six months @$9.95/month. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:50:18 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: Re:Look to this day and remember Mary Grace From: "Bob Shemkovitz" > And those who want to express their feelings about Mary in the public forum in which they've "met" her, if only through her posts, should feel FREE to do so. > I agree wholeheartedly, and am saddened that not everyone understood the distinctions I was trying to draw the last couple of days between posts such as the ones Bob is describing and those which are one-to-one communications for the whole of the JMDL is used as the delivery method. At this point, however, I do want to retreat from my argument, and to also apologize. I did understand what Vince was saying in his post of yesterday, about his need to be reassured that people who are alone and in need of comfort are being consoled, and I thank you Vince for your eye-opening rationale and for the gentle tone of your post. I can't say that I agree with you that the "official" Joni Mitchell Discussion List, which is linked from the Joni Mitchell web site, is the proper forum for a plethora of what, in my opinion, should be private messages to those individuals who cry out, but mine seems to be the minority opinion (to say the least). I respect the decision. As far as an apology is concerned, Kate is right in that I was out of line to assign ulterior motives to the public posting of what I considered to be private, one-to-one messages. Until Vince spoke up, it didn't occur to me that there was a rationale for posting -- "so that all may see" -- a lot of birthday greetings, messages of support, etc. I always thought those messages would be more sincere and be more meaningful to the recipient if sent off-list, and that people who were using the greater JMDL as the delivery vehicle for one-to-one messages were not being entirely selfless, but I now see that other possibilities exist. I do apologize. At this point, I would appreciate it if my apology is accepted and that we all move on. I don't think this was necessarily a debate which shouldn't have taken place, and I hope you join me in being glad that we've aired-out our differences of opinion on what should be "the nature of the JMDL" as the "official" discussion list of the Joni Mitchell web site. That's where I was really coming from. Welcome, you newbies, and please come home, Mark. I alluded to the fact that one of the reasons I stay subscribed is that I genuinely look forward to certain people's posts. You were at the top of my short list. Best to all, sincerely, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:49:10 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Amy Winehouse njc David Lahm asked, << Who is Amy Winehouse? Moody's Mood For Love is a classic, one that I know well >> Hi David (I'm sending this to the list as I couldn't get it to send to your email address), Amy Winehouse is a staggeringly precocious English singer and songwriter, whose debut album, Frank, has just beeen released here. She's white and 19, yet sounds at times like a sassy black American woman twice her age who has lived a lot. The opening song, Stronger Than Me, an entreaty to her fella to get his act together, contains the memorable line "Feel like a lady and you're my lady boy." I didn't know Moody's Mood For Love before hearing her sing it. It's a reggae-ish treatment; sounds good to me. Definitely worth checking out. It's been a good year for debut albums by English women with arresting voices, what with Joss Stone, who's already been written about here, and Willis, whose Come Get Some I can also recommend to people interested in hearing someone a bit different. She reminds me slightly of Grace Slick at times. Azeem in London, pondering what my own picks of the year will be NP: Amy Winehouse - Help Yourself, now segueing into the last song, the delightfully titled Amy Amy Amy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:57:28 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Words-first or Music-first? some joni now I really treasure both. But when it comes to what I respond to initially and strongest, it's the music. When I hear a song for the first time, unless I really focus my attention, I can't even hear the words. I think the lyrics to Court and Spark and Hejira are some of the finest ever written. But I could listen to these songs with the vocal track removed and be tremendously affected and probably have an emotional experience very similar to the one i have listening to both the words and the music. That is something Joni does so damn well. Creating emotional landscapes with her musical compositions that reflect the intent behind her lyrics to a tee. And complex landscapes too, not just "I'm happy" "I'm sad." but more like "I'm content, but searching, tinged with longing, atop an undercurrent of regret..." And Buck, since Bob Muller our "covers king" and oh so reliable welcome wagon is on hiatus until January, let me be the first to say welcome to the list and keep on posting. Jenny Norman Pennington wrote: For me, it has to be BOTH before I'll put my money down. The artists I've stayed with over the years (e.g., Van Morrison, Neil Young, Lyle Lovett, Etta James) seem to be equally good at creating (or purloining) outstanding music and combining it with thoughtful lyrics with either insight or emotion that strikes a chord with me. As an example, I fell off the Joni boat for a while after DJRD and Mingus...I guess I'm just not as musically developed as others when it comes to appreciating jazz. I need that catchy melodic "hook" along with The Deeper Meaning for anything to work for me! Buck Pennington, a newbie temporarily living in Portales, New Mexico. NP: SportsCenter From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" > > >>>Are you a words-first person or a music-first person?<<< New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:59:35 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Look to this day and remember Mary Grace > As far as an apology is concerned, Kate is right in that I was out of line > to assign ulterior motives to the public posting of what I considered to be > private, one-to-one messages. Until Vince spoke up, it didn't occur to me > that there was a rationale for posting -- "so that all may see" -- a lot of > birthday greetings, messages of support, etc. I always thought those > messages would be more sincere and be more meaningful to the recipient if > sent off-list, and that people who were using the greater JMDL as the > delivery vehicle for one-to-one messages were not being entirely selfless, > but I now see that other possibilities exist. I do apologize. > > Best to all, sincerely, > Jim > You are a class act, and a valued member of this group. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:01:49 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Words-first or Music-first? njc > Buck Pennington, a newbie temporarily living in Portales, New Mexico. Welcome, Buck! : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:10:02 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Goodbye (njc) Les I. wrote: > By the way, I've decided to officially define the inner circle > as "anyone who's ever posted to the list". :-) Darn. Now I have to go and change my JMDL profile AGAIN! ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:28:41 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Words-first or Music-first? some joni now Stated beautifully, Jen. I'm thinking "Cold Blue Steel" but it applies just as aptly to, say, "Night Ride Home" Her whole body of work, really. It becomes just a question of degree. That ability, above all her many other gifts, exemplifies her musical genius to me. Welcome to the JMDL, Buck! Many happy returns. - -Julius In a message dated 12/12/2003 7:58:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, jrgoodspeed@yahoo.com writes: > That is something Joni does so damn well. Creating emotional landscapes > with her musical compositions that reflect the intent behind her lyrics to a > tee. And complex landscapes too, not just "I'm happy" "I'm sad." but more like > "I'm content, but searching, tinged with longing, atop an undercurrent of > regret..." > > Jenny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:41:51 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Look to this day and remember Mary Grace (njc) Jim wrote: > At this point, I would appreciate it if my apology is accepted and > that we all move on. You got it, Jim! > Welcome, you newbies, and please come home, Mark. I alluded to the > fact that one of the reasons I stay subscribed is that I genuinely > look forward to certain people's posts. You were at the top of my > short list. Jim, if you haven't already done so, would you please forward this to Mark? Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:07:51 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Dreams do come true (NJC) Wow Sherelle! Those songs sound amazing, I can't wait to hear them - maybe in person! Be sure to let us know when your next gig is. Thanks for all your kind words, take care. db >>> "Sherelle Smith" 12/11/2003 4:08:50 PM >>> Donna! Girl, you have a place in my heart and you know it! Thank you and if I didn't get the chance before, let me tell you how much I enjoyed your CD! You are so very special and genuine and it was such a pleasure to actually meet you during Jonifest 2003! I'm so touched that you still listen to the CD! I'm finally not afraid to do this thing! Actually, I'm already working on a second CD. I've been writing songs about myself and my family. It's funny because they are turning out to be stories. My favorite so far is called "Another Home" and it's about my experiences about my years as a child in England in the early sixties. It's about being an American child in a foreign land; it's about being an African American child in a land where some had never seen someone who looked like me, and it's about an old English man and an English cook who taught me the meaning of love. I'm pretty happy with it. Love ya Donna! Sherelle >From: "Donna Binkley" >To: , >Subject: Re: Dreams do come true (NJC) >Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:41:00 -0600 > >Congratulations Sherelle!! you deserve this, i still listen to your cd >on a regular basis and think you are just wonderful. Keep on trying >because you've got the stuff mama!! Good luck. > >love db > _________________________________________________________________ Our best dial-up offer is back. Get MSN Dial-up Internet Service for 6 months @ $9.95/month now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #618 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)