From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #616 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, December 11 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 616 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Dreams do come true (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Here we go again ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Re: Goodbye (njc) ["kakki" ] Re: (NJC) Evian's Flag Story ["Lori Fye" ] matt savage NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: (NJC) Evian's Flag Story ["kakki" ] RE: Here we go again (NJC) ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: Dreams do come true (NJC) ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Goodbye njc NOW .. COME ON YOU READERS, SAY HELLO AND GET POSTING ["] Re: Goodbye ["Kate Bennett" ] Musical funnies - njc ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Here we go again (NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Dreams do come true (NJC) ["Sherelle Smith" ] Differences njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Goodbye njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Here we go again (2) njc ["Kate Bennett" ] CSNY VCD Vine 2nd Call vljc [Doug ] Anita's Musical Bday Party for Joni ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Re: Dreams do come true (NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Goodbye [tantra-apso ] Re: Goodbye (njc) [tantra-apso ] Re: Accents njc ["kakki" ] Re: Anita's Musical Bday Party for Joni [Emiliano ] Re: Popular (njc) ["kakki" ] CSNY VCD Vine closed [Doug ] Re: [NortheastJonifest] one more thing about the mary grace fund [Chuck E] FW: Stand Up For Hillary ["anon anon" ] PBS 69 Perma-Vine CD vine closed [Doug ] Re: Goodbye [Catherine McKay ] Re: Popular (njc) [Catherine McKay ] RE: Popular (njc) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Goodbye [Les Irvin ] RE: Popular (njc) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Goodbye [Les Irvin ] Re: festers are the besters [LCStanley7@aol.com] (no subject) [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Goodbye Re: joni's angst [Randy Remote ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:11:59 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Dreams do come true (NJC) Sherelle Sherelle Sherelle! I am jumping & dancing & singing for joy! Thank you for sharing this wonderful news with us! And Paz is right! Make sure you have a great entertainment lawyer that comes highly recommended by someone you trust...& even then ask your lawyer questions to be very very sure you know what you are signing...& NEVER accept anyone's answer as 'this is a standard contract'! >I am in negotiations to sign a contract with an independent label here in D.C.! This means I will finally be able to finish this CD project! The name of the label is Platinum Bound Records. I actually met the VP while I was doing the Anita Baker musical in September. I was told by the playwright that someone he knew wanted to record me. I didn't realize who it was. They both stopped by the office Monday and the VP told me he really liked my CD!< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:19:09 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Here we go again Jim: "On other lists, occasionally a list member may announce that a tragedy has befallen him/her, or that there's something personal to celebrate, but that does not generate copious *on-list* messages in response. (To what end, I ask? So that all may see how wonderful and sensitive we are? Is it a self-worth thing?)" Kate the Great responded: Hey jim, it doesn't bother me that you don't like these posts but it does bother a lot me that you find them to be motivated by some need for self worth...because (for me), it is really as simple as being friendly & open & (for me on digest) a little lazy by hitting reply (instead of cutting & pasting an email address)... kate When there are a lot on posts in the JMDL responding to other person's personal joys or sorrows, it reaffirms something very good to me - in this world not everyone has a support base of people they can imemdiately draw upon, if they can draw on many others at all. I know that I have been on both sides of the personal joys and sorrrows posts - even though I have met very few people here, this is a community where I am free enough and comfortable enough to share. Bill Veeck wrote about when his Cleveland Tribe team won the world series in 1948 and he had to go home to an empty house - no one to share it with - I know that feeling very well - if we as a cyber community are a place where we can go home and have this place to not be alone in joys and sorrows, then we are more than just a list about mere music and I thank God for that. And if there are several or a lot or even we get swamped in responses of caring, then so much the better because it assures me that others out there alone feel less alone. As long as it is NJC, then people can emote away all they want. It means a lot to me to know that people care and respond to other people. This is sensitive - but didn't we all wish that we could have done that for Andrea? If I have to wade through 10,000 NJC posts over the next 5 years of my membership here, fine. I can delete just as fast - but it means much to me to know those posts are there from others to others. I belong to numerous other internet communities. This one far and away cares the most for each other. Anyone who has need, just has to post and the support is there. There will never be a Caring Network online that would have the meaning or sincereity as this place - and I would never want to turn someone away from asking for affirmation because we are about "Joni" and other stuff belongs elsewhere. And every time I read one post expressing something for another poster, it does my heart good whether I am involved in that conversation or not. As I look at this world, this JMDL community provides something that we all need and thank you to everyone that we get it here. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:18:17 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Goodbye (njc) I am also sorry to see Mark go. I also think Mark and you, Deb, and many others are VERY appreciated here even if it is not always apparent. But Deb - being "popular" is not all it's cracked up to be! Being "unpopular" or off to the side or in the woodwork is often a much more interesting and freeing place to be, IMO! ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:26:37 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: (NJC) Evian's Flag Story > Lori - I always enjoy hearing about your time up there in the vast > Paprika Plains. I'm glad, especially since it's lately been on my mind a lot. At the end of September, I started a Yahoo group for people who were stationed there with the intention of eventually putting together a reunion out there on the prairie. 60 people have already joined, and a few of them are guys who were stationed there as long ago as the 1950s. I have a feeling we're going to have a great time, as well as help out the local communities by spending some money there. (When the radar station closed in 1979, it effectively cut the population by 40-50% in the nearest towns, and 13-15% in other affected towns.) > But those poor border guards should be cut a little slack! It > doesn't sound like a real fun job to me. True, but for pete's sake ... they really oughta know that people really do drive for hours and hours to shop or see a movie or even go to McDonald's. It's just part of life out there! I do see your point about it taking longer to process buses, etc., through the border. It's just such a bummer that things are so mucked up since 9/11, because the U.S. and Canada have historically enjoyed a great relationship. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:37:17 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: matt savage NJC Music is basically a form of math so yes it can be about numbers as well as from heart & soul...studies show that kids who study music do better in school & math is one of the subjects that kids show improvement in... But its not 'just' about numbers although there are authors out there selling books to aspiring songwriters who claim to have analyzed how hit songs are written by showing how it all breaks down into numbers...somewhat interesting but also somewhat nauseating, imo... I also think that sometimes people's creativity is enahnced when there are other parts of them that may be less developed (for lack of a better word) ... Sort of nature's way of balancing things out overall... >2) If jazz is something 'from the 'soul'/'heart', can it be all down to numbers? The article also ponders if creativity is linked to / enhanced by brain damage< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:37:21 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: (NJC) Evian's Flag Story >At the end of September, I started a Yahoo group for people who were stationed > there with the intention of eventually putting together a reunion out > there on the prairie. Lori - that is so cool!! I love hearing about this kind of stuff. > It's just such a bummer that things are so mucked up since 9/11, because the U.S. >and Canada have historically enjoyed a great relationship. I agree - maybe they should just annex themselves to the U.S. and that would solve everything and we could add the maple leaf as the 51st star (JUST KIDDING, but also affectionate wishful thinking on my part ;-) I have two very close friends who are working in L.A. but are Australian and Namibian citizens. The gyrations and delays they have been going through in their process to get green cards is very daunting. Plus they have not been able to travel out of the country (they can go out but have no assurances of being let back in again under their current status). However, I've heard that the INS has finally been coming up with some new approaches lately that will help cut through the morass. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:52:04 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Here we go again (NJC) I'm relatively new to this list, and I am more reticent than most about non-Joni matters, I guess, but I find the camaraderie here to be admirable. I do find the recent misunderstanding & near-rancor to be troubling, but it looks like it's working itself out. This I will say--the fact that there's a large human element to this list makes it attractive, even though I'm not privy to the long-term relationships among the long-time participants. But the NJC discussionsare often very interesting. So I plan to continue receiving all posts. Richard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:55:37 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE: Dreams do come true (NJC) Kate! Kate! Kate! I said it all in my email to Ron, but you are awesome!!!! I will heed what you say and take things slowly. I just wanted to share this with everyone because we've already been through so much together. I pray it never ends..... Love, Sherelle >From: "Kate Bennett" >To: >CC: >Subject: Dreams do come true (NJC) >Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:11:59 -0800 > >Sherelle Sherelle Sherelle! I am jumping & dancing & singing for joy! >Thank you for sharing this wonderful news with us! And Paz is right! >Make sure you have a great entertainment lawyer that comes highly >recommended by someone you trust...& even then ask your lawyer questions >to be very very sure you know what you are signing...& NEVER accept >anyone's answer as 'this is a standard contract'! > _________________________________________________________________ Cell phone switch rules are taking effect  find out more here. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/consumeradvocate.armx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:38:38 -0000 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: HaHa(njc) Victor - you kill me!!!!!!! rotflmao Martin. In London. Victor remarked.... Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:18:55 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: HaHa(njc) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:58:04 -0000 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: Goodbye njc NOW .. COME ON YOU READERS, SAY HELLO AND GET POSTING Mark has got fed up and left us.. I hope only temporarily. He says that he feels that those who don't attend the jonifest are 'out in the woods somewhere'. I don't know whether that's true for everyone, or a few or none. But it does make me think about all the people who lurk and don't post. I think someone said that there are about 700 hundred subscribers to the list, and I suppose there are only about 100 - 150 who post. I think it would be very healthy for us right now to hear from the lurkers. Come on folks get posting. Say hello, tell everyone what you think about the list, what you had for breakfast, what you think Victor's got to laugh about, even something about Joni Mitchell if you must! Anything. Don't feel you have to force your way in. Just say hi. I for one would be very happy to see a whole bunch of new faces. (Not that I'm fed up with the rest of you ;) Martin. In London. Mark said... Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:06:13 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Goodbye There are 48 unread emails in the Joni file tonight. I don't want to read them. More and more I have felt like I am on the periphery of this 'community'. It seems to me that the list is mainly for Jonifest attendees these days. Personally I feel like the rest of us are out in the woods somewhere unless we work really hard to force our way in. I don't want to do it anymore. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:59:48 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Goodbye Dang, this is heartbreaking to hear that such valued members of this community (both mark & deb) feel this list is dominated by those who have attended a fest...i've only been to 2 (out of how many, six or so?) so don't really know who has been to so many of the others (& even so, found it impossible to connect with everyone there in such a short time) ... For some reason deb I thought you had been to one of the fests (that I did not attend)... I don't feel that this list is dominated by festers but no doubt the list is colored by the fact that many have met in person & it is easier to recognize an email address after meeting someone in person... Might I add here what fun it is to meet for the first time, someone who you had only known previously as an email address! Anyway, as far as the perception of 'popular' or 'unpopular', isn't that something that comes from our past experiences? Since I never was either, just someone who drifted around, in & out of groups, keeping my own company (singing to soundhole & my knee!)much of the time, I really can't relate to this concept very well. Lastly, I can think of quite a few active posters that have never been to a fest- rev vince, mike from barcelona, mack from texas, debra from nyc, azeem in london...etc... And quite a few who rarely post but who show up at fest regularly- alison e from slc, yael, nikki from pa, julius, etc... > If you're not a Jonifest attendee, you're pretty much frozen out and your posts are ignored by the "popular kids." I stay on for the Joni discussions and don't care about making friends here. I hope that my contributions to the discussion (less frequent these days) is appreciated by the lurkers and the other "unpopular kids."< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:03:26 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Musical funnies - njc These are great catherine! I am going to try to remember some of these for stage banter...(along with that joke about why 5 was afraid of 7...because 7 8 9!) In an effort to keep you abreast of the ever-changing world of musical terminology, we provide you with some terms with which you should be familiar: Adagio Fromaggio: To play in a slow and cheesy manner. AnDante: A musical composition that is infernally slow. Angus Dei: To play with a divine, beefy tone. Anti-phonal: Referring to the prohibition of cell phones in the concert hall. A Patella: Unaccompanied knee-slapping. Appologgiatura: A composition, solo or instrument, you regret playing. Approximatura: A series of notes played by a performer, not intended by the composer. Approximento: A musical entrance that is somewhere in the vicinity of the correct pitch. Bar Line: What musicians form after a concert. Concerto Grossissimo: A really bad performance. Coral Symphony: (see Beethoven-Caribbean period). Cornetti Trombosis Disastrous: The entanglement of brass instruments that can occur when musicians exit hastily down the stage stairs Dill Piccolino: A wind instrument that plays only sour notes. Fermantra: A note that is held over and over and over and ... Fermoota: A rest of indefinite length and dubious value. Fog Hornoso: A sound that is heard when the conductor's intentions are not clear. Frugalhorn: A sensible, inexpensive brass instrument. Gaul Blatter: A French horn player. Good Conductor: A person who can give an electrifying performance. or, alternative use, one who obeys the orchestra and/or chorus. Gregorian Champ: Monk who can hold a note the longest. Kvetchendo: Gradually getting annoyingly louder. Mallade: A romantic song that's pretty awful. Molto bolto: Head straight for the ending. Opera buffa: Musical stage production by nudists. Poochini Musical: performance, accompanied by a dog. Pre-Classical Conservatism: School of thought which fostered the idea, "if it ain't baroque, don't fix it." Spritzicato: Plucking of a stringed instrument to produce a bright, bubbly sound, usually accompanied by sparkling water with lemon. Tempo Tantrumo: When a young band refuses to keep time with the conductor. Tincanabulation: The annoying or irritating sounds made by extremely cheap bells. Vesuvioso: A gradual buildup to a fiery conclusion. ZZZfortzando: Playing REALLY loud in order to wake up the audience. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:03:51 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: RE: Here we go again (NJC) Richard, what a nice post! > I do find the recent misunderstanding & near-rancor to be troubling, > but it looks like it's working itself out. I agree. You know, "It comes and goes ..." > This I will say--the fact that there's a large human element to this > list makes it attractive, even though I'm not privy to the long-term > relationships among the long-time participants. Stick around! You'll find yourself in the thick of it in no time. : ) > But the NJC discussions are often very interesting. So I plan to > continue receiving all posts. YAY! It's so nice to hear that. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:08:50 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: Dreams do come true (NJC) Donna! Girl, you have a place in my heart and you know it! Thank you and if I didn't get the chance before, let me tell you how much I enjoyed your CD! You are so very special and genuine and it was such a pleasure to actually meet you during Jonifest 2003! I'm so touched that you still listen to the CD! I'm finally not afraid to do this thing! Actually, I'm already working on a second CD. I've been writing songs about myself and my family. It's funny because they are turning out to be stories. My favorite so far is called "Another Home" and it's about my experiences about my years as a child in England in the early sixties. It's about being an American child in a foreign land; it's about being an African American child in a land where some had never seen someone who looked like me, and it's about an old English man and an English cook who taught me the meaning of love. I'm pretty happy with it. Love ya Donna! Sherelle >From: "Donna Binkley" >To: , >Subject: Re: Dreams do come true (NJC) >Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:41:00 -0600 > >Congratulations Sherelle!! you deserve this, i still listen to your cd >on a regular basis and think you are just wonderful. Keep on trying >because you've got the stuff mama!! Good luck. > >love db > _________________________________________________________________ Our best dial-up offer is back. Get MSN Dial-up Internet Service for 6 months @ $9.95/month now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:06:20 -0500 From: Doug Subject: PBS 69 Perma-Vine CD vine open Thanks to Paul in NYC and after 6 weeks in Postal limbo, I have finally got the "PBS 1969" Perma-Vine CD. This is an excellent show for anyone who doesn't have it already. Send me your address and it's yours to copy and pass on. Doug Joni Mitchell July 7 1969 Mississippi River Festival, Southern Illinois University Edwardsville, IL, broadcast August 3, 1969 on PBS as "The Sounds of Summer" 1) Chelsea Morning 2) Cactus Tree 3) Night In The City 4) Marcie/Nathan La Franeer 5) Rainy Night House/Blue Boy 6) For Free 7) Get Together 8) The Fiddle And The Drum 9) I Think I Understand 10) Both Sides Now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:12:57 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Differences njc Jim suggested >Please support that contention, that much of Joni's music is about connecting with others in their darkness. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I'd just like to see the case made.< That is certainly a suggestion that some here may enjoy reading & writing about... Some folks have minds that like this kind of analytical exercise.... For me, personally, I skip these things as they kind of bore me (sorry its honest, no judgement however)... i prefer more personal stories... My favorite is one julius wrote about hearing blue for the first time, it was so moving... My point is there are so many different kinds of people with different tastes on this list... (forgive me for stating the obvious) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:18:42 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Goodbye njc Oops, perhaps this ought to be njc? >I wanted to capture the environment I had experienced at the Full Moon resort, to capture that feeling of sitting around in the woods enjoying music. On the cover, Kate is sleeping under a tree and Jeff Bisch and I are playing music on a porch with various animals hanging out, including Ashara's dog, Pippin.< Hmmm, what exactly were you trying to say about me victor?! It should be jeff that is sleeping! And ME playing with you! I am MUCH more of a nightowl! Lol.. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:25:46 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Here we go again (2) njc Jim you can hold onto your interpretation of this til the cows come home but have you even considered that you might just be completely misinterpreting others as to why they do this? Dang I am so sorry to keep this going but I do not believe that any one of us have the magic powers of reading someone else's mind & motivation? From what I have learned about personal relationships, thinking that we do is something that leads to misunderstandings... Ps please everyone remember the njc tag on this one... >If people think their personal condolences or their words of support or what have you should be directed to everyone, I contend that those people are more interested in what their posts say to the group about *them* than they are in actually consoling or supporting the depressed individual. < ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:20:58 -0500 From: Doug Subject: CSNY VCD Vine 2nd Call vljc I've had no respone on this so far. If anyone wants in on it, speak up or I'll send it to the acousticharmonies list in a few days. > Thanks to Emiliano, I have the 3 VCDs of vintage Buffalo Springfield, > CSN(Y) and Neil Young. > The only Joni content is a clip from the Dick Cavett Show and Get > Together from the movie > Celebration At Big Sur. Lots of rare Neil Young footage. > > Here's the deal: The first person who contacts me will, when they > receive them, make a copy > for themselves, then post an offer here and send the original discs on > to the next person. etc. etc. > > Doug > Ontario, Canada > . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:39:16 -0600 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Anita's Musical Bday Party for Joni I've received (and listened to, and oooh-ed and ahhh-ed over) the recording of the birthday party for Joni that Anita hosted just over a month ago. (Big Big thanks to Martin, and then to Michael, from whence it came.) It's YUMMY! As always, Strings (the singer) and Stryngs (the band) sound phenomenal, and Chris Marshall's freakin' bass makes me DROOL, and new lister SALLY CLAY IS JUST TOO YUMMY FOR WORDS and must must must record every note that she sings and plays henceforth and mail the recordings to me forevermore (or must move to Alabama) so that I can listen to her whenever I choose. I'll be more than glad to burn copies of these two CDs for whoever's interested.... (unless all 799 of the rest of you want a copy, and then I'm going to be negotiating for some help!) If you need a copy for your collection, just let me know. Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:44:15 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Accents njc Kakki >> They held us up for an hour questioning me and were ready to detain me (despite the very Irish name and L.A. accent)<< LA has an accent? Lol... [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:48:05 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Dreams do come true (NJC) Sherelle, I'm chiming in late here, but CONGRATULATIONS to you! You do deserve this, very much. Btw, where will you be playing in DC? I missed your last performance, but I'll give it my best to be there in February! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:00:21 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: Goodbye Rusty10113@aol.com wrote: > I wonder if people are >busy and just on 'autopilot' and respond only to familiar names? > it could be said the more you post the more familiar you become... as for people not responding, despite all the njc debates, whenever I write about Joni driectly, no responses, no nothing ...weird...but maybe it is because i have no musical talent and therefore what i write with direct regard to that is not considered worthy...or as someone once suggested, you need a degree to truly get Joni and i aint got one of those.... there are all sorts of reasons but ignore them and write what you will. > Nonetheless, >I'm quite happy to lurk and commune with Joniphiles in relative obscurity... >just my thoughts as the snow turns to rain here in lovely NYC... > >Mitch > > > - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:07:26 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: Goodbye (njc) kakki wrote: >Deb - being "popular" is not all it's cracked up to be! > the you are part of a group, the more you belong, the more of yourself you have to give up. the trick is to find a balance between being alone and being a part of..... - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:11:37 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Accents njc Kate asked: > LA has an accent? Lol... It was probably more like a twenty-something year old Valley girl whine LOL Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:19:19 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: Anita's Musical Bday Party for Joni Hi, dears! I absolutely agree with Cynthia... and I'd add more (if my eyes weren't closing in sleep) Many thanks to kind Anita for hosting this *wonderful* tribute, and to Kind Martin who sent this to me! What I'd like to say: If you're from Europe (or Asia, or Africa, or Australia/New Zeland)... disregard good Cynthia's offering.... just ask me for it! Yours: Emiliano NP: I Spy, Shana Morrison, Bremen, 2002 PS: I don't find no necessity for improving this list: I love it just the way it is! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:26:47 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Jim's Joni Content Challenge Jim Leonard wrote: > Here's an interesting Joni Content challenge. Please support that > contention, that much of Joni's music is about connecting with others > in their darkness. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I'd just like > to see the case made. (As a side issue -- and yes, I'm being a wise > guy -- please support the position that Joni would want this > connecting to be done on a public forum, verses intimately and > privately.) I've been thinking about this. While I don't think I can make the case that "much of" Joni's music is about connecting with others in their darkness, there certainly are (imo) songs that qualify. Doing a quick search of the JMDL lyrics database (http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/), I found 27 songs where the word "dark" or "darkness" appears. Of course that doesn't mean that all those songs are about connecting with someone else in their darkness, but it might be fun and useful to do your own search and read the lyrics and see. For my dollar, I think one of the best examples of Joni connecting with others in their darkness (or perhaps trying to connect the rest of us with some REAL darkness) is the song "Ethiopia." And it doesn't even contain the word "dark." http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/Ethiopia.cfm As for whether Joni would want this sort of connecting to be done on a public forum, verses intimately and privately ... I once wrote that I think Joni would be appalled at us for giving one sweet damn what she thinks. I believe she would rather we be true to ourselves and do as we please, so long as it doesn't hurt someone else. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:31:35 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Popular (njc) Colin wrote: > the you are part of a group, the more you belong, the more of yourself > you have to give up. Exactly. Reminds me of Joni - "it seems like you've got to give up such a piece of your soul..." > the trick is to find a balance between being alone and being a part of..... It can be very tricky. I've always struggled with shyness and use to get "dinged" on reviews at work for not being more outgoing. So I worked very hard over the years to at least appear to overcome the anxiety. I recently had a review at work and was "dinged" for being too "popular" with the attorneys. "Popular" in this context meant that so many of them gave me a good evaluation and said how responsive I was to their requests. You'd think the work honchos would consider that a good thing but I guess some feel one should keep in their place (which then provokes that old shyness and anxious feeling in me). Bah! ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:49:15 -0500 From: Doug Subject: CSNY VCD Vine closed It's on its way to Rob in FL Doug ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:59:43 -0500 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] one more thing about the mary grace fund I have been thinking tonight about the earlier days of the JMDL list, and wondering if it would even be here today without MG's input, her wisdom, her wit, and always, her straight shooting, during formative times. Quite possibly not. Chucke On Thursday, December 11, 2003, at 10:36 AM, magsnbrei wrote: > It is vitally important that you know that I do not "expect" everyone > or anyone to help in this cause. I did not mean to add pressure to > anyone else's heavy load. I truly apologize if I have. > > what I mean to say is that if you can and if you want to, please > please do. > > thank you again. > > Mags > > > ***** > your absence has gone through me like thread through a needle > everything i do is stitched with its colour. > w.s.merwin > > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > NortheastJonifest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:08:54 -0500 From: "anon anon" Subject: FW: Stand Up For Hillary >From: "Patti Solis Doyle" >Reply-To: "Patti Solis Doyle" > >To: Icnh@hotmail.com >Subject: Stand Up For Hillary >Date: 11 Dec 2003 14:12:42 PST > >Dear Friends, > >For more than a decade, Hillary has been campaigning and raising money for >Democrats across the country. Since she has been a Senator, thru HILLPAC >and the DNC and DSCC, Hillary has raised millions and millions of dollars >to elect Democratic candidates. In the last election cycle alone, Hillary >traveled the country to headline fundraising events for more than 50 >incumbents and challengers. > >Hillary's commitment speaks volumes about the kind of public servant and >Democrat she is, and how deeply she cares about the future of our party and >America. And Hillary will ABSOLUTELY continue to raise money for other >Democrats. Because 2004 is an extremely important year. Not only do we need >to win back the Senate but we need to win back the White House. > >But, and I emphasize, BUT, we are faced with another political reality. I >have worked with Hillary for the last 12 years. And for all of those years, >she and her husband have been the target of an ongoing Republican assault. >It's vast, and it's right-wing, and the only reason it's not a conspiracy >is because it is very much out in the open. > >"She is ruthless She's unaccountable," says Bill O'Reilly. > >Neal Boortz refers to her as "Hitlary." > >Human Events, a conservative publication, is selling a deck of cards >called, "The 52 Most Dangerous Liberals." They advertise it by exclaiming, >"Move over Saddam -Hillary is the new Ace of Spades." > >"Hillary's main following is made up of a core of emotional idiots. This >core is a personality cult similar to rock groupies, blind and oblivious to >the real world as they swoon over their dear leader," says Newsmax >columnist Charles Smith. > >Now, I don't mind being called a rock groupie, but "emotional idiot" is way >out of line! > >Clearly this stuff is nonsense -- ridiculous, outrageous, blatant lies. >But, the scary thing is that some people - because they see it on TV, or >read it on the web, or hear it on the radio - believe it's true. > >Hillary is not intimidated by this hateful stuff. She shrugs it off and >goes about the business that she was elected to do - making the lives of >New Yorkers - and all Americans - better. That is her job. > >My job - OUR job - is to do something about this nonsense. We, as Friends >of Hillary, need to fight back by getting organized now and raising money >(http://activate.friendsofhillary.com/t?ctl=4D713B:201A266 now to keep >Hillary in the Senate. > >Republicans have made no secret about the fact that they want to take her >out in '06. They want to defeat her because she opposes the Republican >Party's effort to turn back the clock on the progress our society has made >in the last 100 years. They want to defeat her because she believes America >should work with its friends and allies across the world, rather than >alienate them. They want to defeat her because she opposes the Republican >Party's effort to eliminate environmental protections and allow polluters >to reign unchecked across our country. They want to defeat her because she >has fought for veterans, and our children and our seniors against the >right-wing special interests. In other words, REPUBLICANS WANT TO SILENCE >HILLARY BECAUSE SHE IS SPEAKING UP FOR ALL OF US. > >After the 2004 election, Hillary Clinton will be the top target of >Republican strategists. In fact, they've already started. According to >recent article in Roll Call, the Capitol Hill newspaper, Republicans are >"plotting and planning to defeat Clinton and end her political career." The >Republican Senatorial Committee's web site on their home page has a link >called Stop Hillary Now. It details why Hillary is bad for America and asks >you to contribute to get her OUT of office. > >It has become clear that we need to raise money now to keep Hillary IN >office(http://activate.friendsofhillary.com/t?ctl=4D713C:201A266 > >Will you make it your New Year's Resolution to show your support for >Hillary? I can't think of a better way to express your commitment that this >is the year to change the direction of our country - and to show your >support for all that Hillary is doing. > >Will you ring in the New Year by contributing $20.04 (or more!) for a >strong start in 2004 >(http://activate.friendsofhillary.com/t?ctl=4D713D:201A266 > >Our next campaign filing date is December 31. We know it will be closely >watched by the Hillary-haters, who are looking for signs that she is >vulnerable. It is so important that we have a significant total by that day >to show that Hillary has our support - TO SHOW THEY CAN'T STOP HER AND THEY >CAN'T STOP US! > >Sincerely, > >Patti Solis Doyle >Executive Director > > > >PS - Please help spread the word by forwarding this message to you friends >and family! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >If you feel you have received this message in error, we apologize. To >unsubscribe from HillNews, click here: >http://activate.friendsofhillary.com.com/u?id=89E81130C38D13D3948067187ED6D786 > >To view the Friends of Hillary Privacy Policy, please visit: >http://activate.friendsofhillary.com/t?ctl=4D6E99:201A266 > >Contributions to Friends of Hillary are not deductible for federal income >tax purposes >Paid for by Friends of Hillary _________________________________________________________________ Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:53:04 -0500 From: Doug Subject: PBS 69 Perma-Vine CD vine closed This one going to David Sadowski in IL Doug ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:28:15 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Goodbye --- Rusty10113@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/11/03 5:53:36 AM, > messling@enter.net writes: > > << If you're not a Jonifest attendee, > you're pretty much frozen out and your posts are > ignored by the "popular > kids." >> > > Had to chime in here, as another lurker who's felt > at times this way. I love > the fact that this list exists, and it's obviously a > caring, thoughtful group, > but perhaps awareness of this tendency might indeed > change things a bit, and > open up the dialogue for the lurkers. I'm a total > Joni freak, but most of the > time I feel totally foreign to the threads going on; > I wonder if people are > busy and just on 'autopilot' and respond only to > familiar names? Nonetheless, > I'm quite happy to lurk and commune with Joniphiles > in relative obscurity... > just my thoughts as the snow turns to rain here in > lovely NYC... Mitch! We need people like you! And Deb! And Mark - I hope you really didn't sign off, because you're one of my very favourite posters! It's always, always, ALWAYS good to hear from newbies and lurkers and anyone else for that matter. I fully understand how people can feel left out of the group. To be fair, I've seen it on other message-boards and my inclination is not to join in either. So, even though I've been to a Jonifest, I totally get this. So.... what's your favourite Joni album? Got a favourite song? When did you first hear Joni and what drew you to her? What's your shoe size? And other questions of that kind... ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:55:31 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Popular (njc) --- kakki wrote: I've always struggled with > shyness and use to get > "dinged" on reviews at work for not being more > outgoing. So I worked very > hard over the years to at least appear to overcome > the anxiety. I recently > had a review at work and was "dinged" for being too > "popular" with the > attorneys. "Popular" in this context meant that so > many of them gave me a > good evaluation and said how responsive I was to > their requests. You'd > think the work honchos would consider that a good > thing but I guess some > feel one should keep in their place (which then > provokes that old shyness > and anxious feeling in me). Bah! ;-) You can't win, can you? My mother kept all of our old report cards and every single one for me said, "Catherine is a good student, but needs to speak up more in class." "Catherine should contribute more to class discussions", and so on. I was always very shy, and if things are very noisy, I'll just shut up and say nothing if the only other option is raising my voice and straining my vocal chords. Nowadays, depending on where I am and who I'm with, I can be pretty obnoxious, but usually I have to be just a tad drunk first. How can a person be "too popular"? How do they describe "popular" in a job performance review in a way to make it sound bad? Were they suggesting you were sleeping with all the attorneys? LOL. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:26:07 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Popular (njc) > "Catherine is a good student, but needs to speak up > more in class." "Catherine should contribute more to > class discussions", gosh, cath, your teachers did a good job after all! w ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:29:14 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Goodbye At 12/11/2003 03:49 AM, Deb Messling wrote: >I stay on for the Joni discussions and don't care about making >friends here. I hope that my contributions to the discussion (less >frequent these days) is appreciated by the lurkers and the other "unpopular >kids." I'll speak (as if not an "unpopular kid", as at least a lurker) and say Deb, that your contributions to the list are invaluable to me! Not many people know, but Deb has dug up and contributed probably half of all the articles in the Library database at jmdl.com. Deb was also probably the third or fourth member of the list, subbing on the second day of its existence and has never unsubbed (I don't think) since that day. The main thing JoniFest does for people is to put a face on the email address. In no way does NOT attending exclude or diminish any list member's value. Just my humble opinion. Les NP: David Bromberg "When I Was a Cowboy" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:29:41 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Popular (njc) --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > > "Catherine is a good student, but needs to speak > up > > more in class." "Catherine should contribute more > to > > class discussions", > > > gosh, cath, your teachers did a good job after all! > Yeah, I bet they're sorry now. Can't shut me up! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:35:31 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Goodbye At 12/11/2003 09:52 AM, Rusty10113@aol.com wrote: >Had to chime in here, as another lurker who's felt at times this way. I love >the fact that this list exists, and it's obviously a caring, thoughtful >group, >but perhaps awareness of this tendency might indeed change things a bit, and >open up the dialogue for the lurkers. I'm a total Joni freak, but most of the >time I feel totally foreign to the threads going on; I wonder if people are >busy and just on 'autopilot' and respond only to familiar names? Mitch! Thanks for speaking up. Let's hear from more lurkers! I totally agree that it's easy to feel left out amongst all the familiar posters on the list. I still feel that way myself sometimes. Interestingly, I'm basically a shy person and when I go to JoniFest I often feel left out there as well. I realized it's not because I'm outcast or shunned by anyone, it's just that I'm quiet and they don't quite know how to take me. I made a decision to start speaking up and talk to people and guess what? I was in! Simple as that. I think it works that way on the list as well. Stick your foot out there in the middle of the room, veterans be damned. Before you know it, you are part of the inner circle! By the way, I've decided to officially define the inner circle as "anyone who's ever posted to the list". :-) Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:43:42 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: festers are the besters Lori wrote: > Since I go to Jonifest, does this mean I've finally achieved that goal? In the words of Wayne and Garth, from down on my knees and bowing: I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy!!! Love and laughs, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:47:46 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: (no subject) "Every time I read one post expressing something for another poster, it does my heart good whether I am involved in that conversation or not." This from Vince tonight really says it all, IMO. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:48:48 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Goodbye Re: joni's angst tantra-apso wrote: > despite all the njc debates, whenever I > write about Joni driectly, no responses, no nothing ...weird...but maybe > it is because i have no musical talent and therefore what i write > is not considered worthy...or as someone once > suggested, you need a degree to truly get Joni whenever? no one ever replies? we must fix that.... Actually, Colin, I had been thinking about the post you wrote about Joni's need for her mother's approval, and her resentment of same. I thought you were definitely on to something, and there is good support of this idea within some of Joni's songs. I no longer have all of your original post... tantra-apso wrote: > From what i ahev read of what is availbale, it would seem she neevr > felt she had her mothers approval > (I > don't know about her father's level of approval/acceptance). Maybe some clues in her songs: Papa's faith is people Mama, she believes in cleanin' Papa brought home the sugar Mama taught me the deeper meaning (sarcasm?) She don't like my kickpleat skirt She don't like my eyelids painted green She don't like me stayin' up late Livin' for that rock and roll dancin' scene Papa says leave the girl alone Mama She's lookin' like a movie queen Mama thinks she spoiled me rotten Papa knows he set me free Mama thinks she spoiled me rotten She blames herself But Papa he blesses me It's a rough road to travel mama Let go now It's always called for me Sometimes I get that feelin' like I want to raise up a child with somebody But it passes like the summer, I'm a wild seed again Let the Wind Carry Me (Let The Wind Carry Me) (FTR) She seems to be so sour on mother issues that she rejects completely the idea of being one. Mom is critical, guilt tripping, Dad has been embraced as okay and supportive. And in "Facelift" she recounts a tense Christmas as she confronts her mother's disapproval over Joni's unmarried sex. She shoots a guilt dart of her own back at her mother, telling her to open her gifts and be happy (even though you ruined my day). There are other examples, I'm sure. It seems she has alot of conflict over issues of control, morality and conscience with her mother. Or did when she wrote the songs- maybe she is past that by now. Anyway, I thought you had some interesting insights. So there. RR > > One way out of her bind is to realise, at gut level, that her mother is > just a fallible human being and her accpetance/approval of her daughter > is of no real value. Her mother's ideas and standards are just her > mother's, they are not universal truths. her mothers opinion of her > daughter, is nothing more than an opinion and ought carry no more weight > than the opinion of any one else. In the end, it is Joni's opinion that > counts, her own approval and acceptance of herself that will releive her > of this weight she carries. Armed with her own approval, the lack of > honours will not cut so deeply becauseit won't be so wrapped in that > intial rejection-that of her mother's. > > bw > colin ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #616 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)